What began as a good story showing progress being made on the reconstruction of downtown roads took a weird turn at the end. Keep in mind, the story is about road construction, but at the end, they asked people on downtown streets about parking for the BOk Center without actually mentioning the BOk Center specifically.
quote:
KTUL: Believe it or not, construction downtown is on schedule.
For months drivers have been dealing with a lot of diversions and construction.
"It changes day to day. I come through roads one day are detour and the next day a different detour," said one Tulsa resident, who drives downtown.
But, according to the city, progress is being made. Out of 50 city blocks on the 'to-do' list, 28 are finished and the rest should be done by August.
"Whenever there's a free moment, they're working," said Albert Martinez, City of Tulsa Engineer.
But even when the contruction is finished, one problem still looms: Parking.
Notice how in the script, it just says "parking" and ends? Well, this doesn't include, however, the most important part of the weird twist of the story... Just watch the video by Clicking here (//%22http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0308/505053.html%22).
I know the roads are supposed to be finished by the time the BOk Center opens, but I have some problems with this story. They obviously know that many people who've never been downtown believe that there is no parking, and by bringing up a non-issue like this, it appears to me that they're just pandering and calling it news (what's new, I know).
This script also says that 28 blocks are finished, yet the on-screen graphic clearly states that 28 are "either completed or
nearly complete".
Like parking problems LOOM so ominously over a Central
Business Parking District. Give me a break, KTUL. I think we've all seen the number of significant, historic buildings which have been ruthlessly torn down for surface parking lots, of which half or more are usually empty or nearly empty asphalt wastelands.
And I thought all the morons flocked to the
Tulsa World's comment sections [xx(].
(I'm particularly fond of the word "contruction" in the story.)
Maybe I just expect too much from local media.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2259/2294173881_f8da9e8950_o.jpg)
Some additions
Williams Center Towers 1&2 sit on top of a parking garage (samson plaza is part of the roof)
Just north of 5th and main on the east side is a parking lot.
Bank of america at 6th and boulder is also sitting on a parking garage.
SW corner of 7th & detroit is parking
The Mayo hotel at 5th & cheyenne sits on top of a parking garage.
There is also a mayo parking garage on the west side of cheyenne, between 4th and 5th.
Obviously, we need more parking.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Some additions
Williams Center Towers 1&2 sit on top of a parking garage (samson plaza is part of the roof)
Just north of 5th and main on the east side is a parking lot.
Bank of america at 6th and boulder is also sitting on a parking garage.
SW corner of 7th & detroit is parking
The Mayo hotel at 5th & cheyenne sits on top of a parking garage.
There is also a mayo parking garage on the west side of cheyenne, between 4th and 5th.
Obviously, we need more parking.
The Areema project reminds me of the planning and execution that went into the Iraq war. I'm sure someday neither will look anymore like a war zone but will have evolved into a blood sucking liabilty. No parking is like no exit plan....
Also missing from the map:
- garage at SE corner of 6th & Boulder
- garage at NE corner of 7th & Boulder
- lot at NW corner of 7th & Main
- three garages west of Denver and east of where Frisco used to be, between 7th & 11th
- lot at SW corner of 3rd & Main
- garage north of 8th between Boulder and Cheyenne
- lot at SE corner of 5th & Boulder
- small lots along 4th between Main and Boston
- garage inside Renberg's on east side of Main, 300 block
- lot at SW corner of 5th & Cincinnati
- lot and rooftop parking at NW corner of 7th & Cincinnati
- lot on east side of Cheyenne, 200 block
Also:
- garage on west side of Cincinnati, 400 block
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Some additions
Williams Center Towers 1&2 sit on top of a parking garage (samson plaza is part of the roof)
Just north of 5th and main on the east side is a parking lot.
Bank of america at 6th and boulder is also sitting on a parking garage.
SW corner of 7th & detroit is parking
The Mayo hotel at 5th & cheyenne sits on top of a parking garage.
There is also a mayo parking garage on the west side of cheyenne, between 4th and 5th.
Obviously, we need more parking.
I think we need a clarification here. Is there a PUBLIC parking shortage? The garage at Samson Plaza is NOT for public use. You don't have a card, you are NOT getting in. I would imagine similiar lots at Bank of America and so forth have the same restrictions.
SO, with that said, how many lots can any Joe Blow pull into, get a gate ticket, and get out of later? I don't know the answer to that, but lets not exaggerate more parking than what there is.
i don't believe there is any exaggeration. Those lots that are currently private will be open and charging 5 - 8 dollars to park on nights of events just like they do in every other city in the country. parking is definitely a non issue.
quote:
Originally posted by hoodlum
i don't believe there is any exaggeration. Those lots that are currently private will be open and charging 5 - 8 dollars to park on nights of events just like they do in every other city in the country. parking is definitely a non issue.
you are making assumptions. tenants of these buildings may not want them opened up to the public because of security/safety issues to their employees.
Lots owned and managed by places like American Parking will certainly open to the public.
I think there is not a parking issue if you remove the previously mentioned private garages...lets just not overstate.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Some additions
Williams Center Towers 1&2 sit on top of a parking garage (samson plaza is part of the roof)
Just north of 5th and main on the east side is a parking lot.
Bank of america at 6th and boulder is also sitting on a parking garage.
SW corner of 7th & detroit is parking
The Mayo hotel at 5th & cheyenne sits on top of a parking garage.
There is also a mayo parking garage on the west side of cheyenne, between 4th and 5th.
Obviously, we need more parking.
I think we need a clarification here. Is there a PUBLIC parking shortage? The garage at Samson Plaza is NOT for public use. You don't have a card, you are NOT getting in. I would imagine similiar lots at Bank of America and so forth have the same restrictions.
SO, with that said, how many lots can any Joe Blow pull into, get a gate ticket, and get out of later? I don't know the answer to that, but lets not exaggerate more parking than what there is.
I've parked there before. I think for like $25 I got to park for day and got my car washed and detailed. That's been a few years though.
Almost every garage is open to the public. Not counting the fact, even if it is private, many of those people will be going to events downtown.
Sq, please don't let facts and logic get in the way of Inteller trying to say there is no parking downtown. Seriously, if you pointed out everything wrong with his nay-saying he'd have to just shut up and go away. No one wants that.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Not counting the fact, even if it is private, many of those people will be going to events downtown.
wow, now there is another big assumption. I park in one of those private garages and I would -not- be staying downtown to go to these events.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Sq, please don't let facts and logic get in the way of Inteller trying to say there is no parking downtown. Seriously, if you pointed out everything wrong with his nay-saying he'd have to just shut up and go away. No one wants that.
go ****ing read. I stated above that even when you REMOVE those private garages, there is NOT a downtown parking problem.
If we have a good mass transit/shuttle system, it won't matter how far away the parking is...
quote:
Originally posted by Kenosha
If we have a good mass transit/shuttle system, it won't matter how far away the parking is...
yes, it is called Bus 11.
lol Inteller, calm down a little man. Just prodding ya' a little as you have gone negative nuts this AM.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Not counting the fact, even if it is private, many of those people will be going to events downtown.
wow, now there is another big assumption. I park in one of those private garages and I would -not- be staying downtown to go to these events.
I said "many" not "all."
I'm pretty sure wherever you go, few follow.
From the "Downtown Linkage Report and Master Plan" of 2005:
"Currently, the equivalent of 73 blocks--or roughly 1/3 of the available land in Downtown Tulsa--is used as commercial surface parking."
There is no shortage of parking in downtown. There is a shortage of buildings in downtown Tulsa.
There are acres of parking lots all over the area. The easy solution for the arena will be to run shuttles every few minutes from various lots in and around downtown. It would probably be faster to jump in a shuttle than if you parked in a nearby garage and had to wait for the bottleneck to clear out. Maybe charge a buck for the shuttle vs. $10 for the parking nearby....problem solved.
Other entertainment districts might want to sponsor their own shuttles (from Brookside, Cherry Street, Blue Dome, Brady...) to encourage people to make an evening of the event. Dining before, drinks after, park for free, get dropped off at the door. (Blue shuttles take you to the Blue Dome district, red shuttles take you to Cherry Street, tie-dyed shuttles take you to Brookside...)
This is NOT going to be a big deal. It's just life in the big city.
(I remember reading about a huge mall being built in the San Francisco area that was intentionally built without a single parking lot. They located it next to a rapid transit platform and a bus stop, and expected folks to take the train or the bus to get there. Who wouldn't prefer jumping off a train within steps of your destination...rather than having to hoof it across a depressing half mile of asphalt parking?)
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
(I remember reading about a huge mall being built in the San Francisco area that was intentionally built without a single parking lot. They located it next to a rapid transit platform and a bus stop, and expected folks to take the train or the bus to get there. Who wouldn't prefer jumping off a train within steps of your destination...rather than having to hoof it across a depressing half mile of asphalt parking?)
Carrying packages on those trains and busses would eventually piss me off. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about as little surface parking as possible. I've been on the metro with too many bags and not enough seats...it can frustrate you.
I think they are talking about this shopping center (//%22http://www.westfield.com/sanfrancisco/index.html%22) that was built in an existing building. The original store was the Emporium located on Market Street, I used to shop there. They didn't tear down anything or level anything to make this. They reused an existing building that was originally one store. The Bart stop is right outside on the corner. The busses all stop right outside on Market street. This is nothing like building a Woodland Hills without parking. This place is in downtown San Francisco. Tulsa is no where as urban as San Francisco. Please, before using examples, at least check them out. Otherwise you are just spreading rumors and inuendo with no knowledge of the truth. Bunch of frigging republicans.
quote:
Originally posted by hoodlum
i don't believe there is any exaggeration. Those lots that are currently private will be open and charging 5 - 8 dollars to park on nights of events just like they do in every other city in the country. parking is definitely a non issue.
Just like they do over by the PAC during any event that takes place there,
I had a fun day at work today. Some co-workers were complaining about downtown parking, so I challenged them on it. On said he had heard there were "ONLY 9,000 spaces within 15 minutes of the arena", and sicne the arena holds 18,000 so how would that work? I asked him how many events he went to by himself one car per person. Then he complained about the 15 minute walk. I asked him how many college football games, basketball games, or any other events he had been to where you had front door parking. Then he said that 15 minutes walking downtown was "unsafe" - I asked him to show me crime statistics - of course he had none.
Time to keep challenging people on this stuff.
^ Many of these complaints boil down to perceptions. My guess is that most Tulsans (including myself) perceive the area near the arena as pedestrian-unfriendly. Walking around that rather placeless place (which I do often) is not a pleasant experience.
"I walk this empty street - on the boulevard of broken dreams...."
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
^ Many of these complaints boil down to perceptions. My guess is that most Tulsans (including myself) perceive the area near the arena as pedestrian-unfriendly. Walking around that rather placeless place (which I do often) is not a pleasant experience.
"I walk this empty street - on the boulevard of broken dreams...."
Just as I perceive hiking to my car in the parking lot at Woodland Hills to be not a pleasant experience. The last two times I was there I was hit up for spare change when walking to my car.
It's been years since I've gone to Woodland Hills Mall. I don't remember the parking lot there being a particularly pleasant place for pedestrians.
Neither is downtown Tulsa in the vicinity of the new arena. It's a harsh urban environment.
"I walk this empty street - on the boulevard of broken dreams...."
I just think the people in this city have a thing against walking period. The Mayor or other city leaders could mitigate by default the "not enough parking downtown" by encouraging people to walk and bike more.
Change attitudes by having public service announcements in tv the news, papers, etc. and have the focus be on Health. Say how walking is good for you, good for the health of the people in our city. State some statistics about how unhealthy we are. Then give examples on how you can improve your health by, taking the stairs, parking at the grocery store or mall further away from the stores, taka a walking break instead of a coffee break. Every extra few steps count towards you and your family having a better, healthier, happier life. Hand out pamphlets in the schools to the kids. Have them take them home to the parents. Billboards, all kinds of other ideas. Mass Transit System called "The Tulsa Ground" "Everybody is using it [:P]"
By doing that you will as a side effect get rid of a lot of that grumbling about downtown parking. And you may also lead people to becoming more aware of their walking environment and how its important for development to be pedestrian friendly. Other cities and their residents have more of this attitude. Its up to us and our leaders to help make an attitude shift.
http://www.commuterpage.com/walk/about/
I've been trying to walk more but you need hiking boots and spelunking gear to walk around downtown.
^ That's part of the problem. The super-blocks are overwhelming. Most of the shade trees have been removed. Many of the buildings have been removed.
Many of the older concrete sidewalks have been removed and replaced with rough concrete unit pavers. It's not as comfortable to walk on the unit pavers as it is to walk on good concrete sidewalks. We're actually making the downtown less walkable by forcing those cute faux brick patterns and glaring street lamps onto our streetscapes.
"I walk this empty street -- on the boulevard of broken dreams..."
Makes me think of a comment of a friend of mine several years ago. We were on the subject of meeting women and, with him spending time in places like florida, he said it makes it hard because this is a "driving city". Makes me wonder if we would become more sociable in an enviroment where we passed each other with only air between us, instead of steel and glass.
quote:
Originally posted by custosnox
Makes me think of a comment of a friend of mine several years ago. We were on the subject of meeting women and, with him spending time in places like florida, he said it makes it hard because this is a "driving city". Makes me wonder if we would become more sociable in an enviroment where we passed each other with only air between us, instead of steel and glass.
I'd have to overcome the "don't make eye contact" habit I developed in the Northeast.
quote:
Originally posted by custosnox
Makes me think of a comment of a friend of mine several years ago. We were on the subject of meeting women and, with him spending time in places like florida, he said it makes it hard because this is a "driving city". Makes me wonder if we would become more sociable in an enviroment where we passed each other with only air between us, instead of steel and glass.
We had a great place for socializing downtown at 5th & Main. We ripped it all out and replaced it with a traffic circle and a small fountain. The shade trees are gone. The big participatory fountain is gone.
"I walk this empty street -- on the boulevard of broken dreams...."
So as not to make this whole thread a downer, I just wanted to say I think the new park at 6th and main and associate road repairs and sidewalks are about 20x better than anything similar done recently and it will be a real asset.
Traffic Calming Medians?
Concrete roadways instead of Asphalt?
Stamped Concrete instead of Unit Pavers?
A real unique water fountain?
A real performance area?
Youd've thought aliens designed it.
For places where people will be walking, smooth concrete is better than concrete stamped to create a rough surface imitating brick or stone.
For seating areas or other locations where walking isn't the prime consideration, then the stamped concrete might be an appropriate choice. I'm leery and weary of places designed for pedestrians -- often by people who don't walk much themselves.
I'm not familiar with the design for this park, however. I'm not impressed at all with the Legacy Place Park at Archer and Boulder.
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
For places where people will be walking, smooth concrete is better than concrete stamped to create a rough surface imitating brick or stone.
For seating areas or other locations where walking isn't the prime consideration, then the stamped concrete might be an appropriate choice. I'm leery and weary of places designed for pedestrians -- often by people who don't walk much themselves.
I'm not familiar with the design for this park, however. I'm not impressed at all with the Legacy Place Park at Archer and Boulder.
They are using stamped concrete as traffic calming on 6th street, not as sidewalks.
I'm not a big fan of bench park either, but I like this park. The plans can be seen here:
http://www.landlegacy.com/blog/2007/08/coming-soon-new-park-in-downtown-tulsa.html
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
For places where people will be walking, smooth concrete is better than concrete stamped to create a rough surface imitating brick or stone.
For seating areas or other locations where walking isn't the prime consideration, then the stamped concrete might be an appropriate choice. I'm leery and weary of places designed for pedestrians -- often by people who don't walk much themselves.
I'm not familiar with the design for this park, however. I'm not impressed at all with the Legacy Place Park at Archer and Boulder.
They are using stamped concrete as traffic calming on 6th street, not as sidewalks.
I'm not a big fan of bench park either, but I like this park. The plans can be seen here:
http://www.landlegacy.com/blog/2007/08/coming-soon-new-park-in-downtown-tulsa.html
The design is beautiful. I'm a big fan! When is it set for completion?
I believe the bulk of the park is set to be done in April, but the fountain will still be in progress for awhile afterwards. Most of the concrete is done and trees planted already.
P.S. The "petro wall" was cancelled or at least postponed.
Cool, thanks.