Cornerstone Creek
South Tulsa Retail Development across from the Spirit Events Center in Bixby
This retail center is located on 34 acres in the growing southern area of the city. In close proximity to a new convention center, the site is a planned mix of tenant offerings that include a 110,000 square foot Lifetime Fitness Center, 60,000 square feet of junior anchors, 5-6 pad sites, a proposed boutique hotel and approximately 34,000 square feet of high end lifestyle shops offered in a comfortable, pedestrian oriented "Main Street" theme including a public plaza space with outdoor dining areas. The distinctive architectural design of Cornerstone Creek is inspired by Tulsa's rich heritage of both Art Deco and Prairie style buildings that are still in use today.
(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/3818/cornerstonecreek1aq5.jpg)
(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/4715/cornerstonecreek4pk0.jpg)
(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5116/cornerstonecreek2xe4.jpg)
http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listing/Profile/ProfileSE.aspx?LID=15567768&linkcode=10850&sourcecode=1lww2t006a00001
Cool. Lot of surface parking, though.
At first it looked dense, then I realized the only thing dense was the architect.
Don't trust the promises of an architect or developer who can't spell "elevation."
this is not across from the events center. This will be where they tore down the old fitness center/gym thing.
Looks cool. Too bad it will be, by necessity, about as urban as the Wal-Mart in Bixby. When everyone will drive to your location, there are no other attractions nearby, and land is cheap - surface parking is guaranteed. If done right it will be a bastion of shops with parking behind them. I'm guessing it will be much like the shopping area North of 41st and Yale (Reasors, Barns and Noble)... really just a big strip mall - with upgraded architecture this time though.
And again,e very new development further south precludes development downtown. [V] We only need so much retail and while some of it is area specific many retailers also look at over all market saturation.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Looks cool. Too bad it will be, by necessity, about as urban as the Wal-Mart in Bixby. When everyone will drive to your location, there are no other attractions nearby, and land is cheap - surface parking is guaranteed. If done right it will be a bastion of shops with parking behind them. I'm guessing it will be much like the shopping area North of 41st and Yale (Reasors, Barns and Noble)... really just a big strip mall - with upgraded architecture this time though.
And again,e very new development further south precludes development downtown. [V] We only need so much retail and while some of it is area specific many retailers also look at over all market saturation.
the problem is you have local developers with vested interest in south town properties driving outside retail partners unnecessarily south. These local developers make promises that all the money is south so they keep retail building south. The outside retailers are just armed with a little demographic info, but no predeictive demand models (that would require thinking). So they just take the easy route and go along with the developers. It is a vicious cycle. I blame the usual cadre of land speculators and developers. Frisbee tops the list.
Don't worry, you all will be able to gloat plenty years from now when south tulsa is saturated with empty buildings from overbuilding.
and BTW, I see nothing Art Deco about this....and I'm sick of prairie style being some defining characteristic of Tulsa. Prairie style has NEVER held historical signifigance in Tulsa. Only in recent years have developers slapped on that cliche roof style. 10 years ago you'd be hard pressed to find that **** in Tulsa.
I have a problem with the large parking lots surrounding everything, that does not say pedistrian friendly to me. And the architecture is not faux Tuscan, that could be a plus since Tulsa is not located in Tuscany. Plus major national retail stores have their own signature designs that will not fit into that model.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
At first it looked dense, then I realized the only thing dense was the architect.
Don't trust the promises of an architect or developer who can't spell "elevation."
That was probably the renderer's fault...not the architect.
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
I have a problem with the large parking lots surrounding everything, that does not say pedistrian friendly to me. And the architecture is not faux Tuscan, that could be a plus since Tulsa is not located in Tuscany. Plus major national retail stores have their own signature designs that will not fit into that model.
Bixby's architecture style (as defined by the planning comm) is "mediterranean" don't see how the regal plaza is that style, but whatever. my point is developers in that part of town should strive to match their neighbors across the street.
quote:
Originally posted by Kenosha
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
At first it looked dense, then I realized the only thing dense was the architect.
Don't trust the promises of an architect or developer who can't spell "elevation."
That was probably the renderer's fault...not the architect.
Buck stops somewhere. I don't trust bad spellers. And perky people. And canadians.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
and BTW, I see nothing Art Deco about this....and I'm sick of prairie style being some defining characteristic of Tulsa. Prairie style has NEVER held historical signifigance in Tulsa. Only in recent years have developers slapped on that cliche roof style. 10 years ago you'd be hard pressed to find that **** in Tulsa.
I was thinking the exact same thing. What if anything, is Art Deco in this development? Art Deco is becoming just another brand positioning name, the way "Tuscan," "Mediterranean," and "upscale" already are. A developer takes some minute item out of context and throws it in the development, and suddenly it's Art Deco? I just hope crap like this doesn't start being considered actual Art Deco, because that will have a negative impact on the significance of real Art Deco buildings, like we have downtown.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Kenosha
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
At first it looked dense, then I realized the only thing dense was the architect.
Don't trust the promises of an architect or developer who can't spell "elevation."
That was probably the renderer's fault...not the architect.
Buck stops somewhere. I don't trust bad spellers. And perky people. And canadians.
. . . and the Dutch!
quote:
a comfortable, pedestrian oriented "Main Street" theme including a public plaza space
I want to know where this Main Street - ish element is in that monstrosity...
And to echo earlier comments, where's the art deco?
(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5116/cornerstonecreek2xe4.jpg)
What's really amusing, aside from this dense, Main Street thing is that there is an actual creek (or what appears to be one) that runs through the development, and probably the one for which is was named, and NOTHING faces it except the backs of buildings and a parking lot.
that back building looks a WHOLE lot like a Whole Foods. If that ends up being the case I know a certain developer that has a huge helping of crow to eat.
i'll also say that that looks eerily like the defunct South Towne Square plan. Bumgarner is no where near this plan right?
Whole foods is not coming here by choice. The inability to sell wine by the bottle in the store is the major stumbling block. That is where they make sssssssoooooooooooooooo much of their monies. It will not be a Trader Joes either.
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
Whole foods is not coming here by choice. The inability to sell wine by the bottle in the store is the major stumbling block. That is where they make sssssssoooooooooooooooo much of their monies. It will not be a Trader Joes either.
Well, whether they like it or not, they're already IN Tulsa... Wild Oats @ 41st & Peoria was sold to WF. The outside sign hasn't changed but the products (& prices) have.
quote:
Originally posted by DScott28604
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
Whole foods is not coming here by choice. The inability to sell wine by the bottle in the store is the major stumbling block. That is where they make sssssssoooooooooooooooo much of their monies. It will not be a Trader Joes either.
Well, whether they like it or not, they're already IN Tulsa... Wild Oats @ 41st & Peoria was sold to WF. The outside sign hasn't changed but the products (& prices) have.
Whole Foods has owned the nation-wide Wild Oats chain since August of 2007. Before that they operated for several years as separate entities with the same supply and distribution chain.
Essentially they have been the same company for years, but just haven't put all of the money in the same bag.
the only reason I say Whole foods is that a similiar building outline was in the STS proposal and whole foods was the target there.
I think if WF looks at their peoria store they see it does just fine without liquor sales. I think it is pretty hypocritical for a nature foods store to stay away from tulsa because it cant sell booze.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
I think it is pretty hypocritical for a nature foods store to stay away from tulsa because it cant sell booze.
+1
Especially when all you have to do is stick a liquor store right next door. There is a locally owned one by the Wild Oats on Peoria and there is one next door to where the Market was on Yale.
The Bodega (by the old Market) is HANDS DOWN the best liquor store in Tulsa (in my experience...) We order 2 cases from him @ Christmas every year and everything is always great....not to mention various shopping on a regular basis. The owner is highly knowledgeable [:D] and will tell you if something sucks, or he will ask what your tastes are and come up with something good. He even took back a bottle we bought b/c the cork was messed up, no reciept, but b/c he knew us. GREAT PLACE!
Then again, it's pretty stupid to not allow grocery stores to sell liquor when we would allow them to open one up right next door (owned and operated by the same people). It is a response to a dumb law, be it smart response or not. Maybe they figure if our laws make them jump through an extra hoop on this one...
- - -
Anyway, the more I look over the plans the more I feel vindicated. This is just a collection of retail stores surrounded by parking. It has zero interest for me.
Right on Inteller. That's like a Smoke Shop in a drugstore parking lot.
If a Whole Foods opened up there, my head would literally blow off into a thousand pieces.
But probably not.
Maybe Whole Foods can open a booze store next door called "Whole Barrel" "Whole Kegger" or "Whole 40"
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Then again, it's pretty stupid to not allow grocery stores to sell liquor when we would allow them to open one up right next door (owned and operated by the same people). It is a response to a dumb law, be it smart response or not. Maybe they figure if our laws make them jump through an extra hoop on this one...
- - -
Anyway, the more I look over the plans the more I feel vindicated. This is just a collection of retail stores surrounded by parking. It has zero interest for me.
No shopping along that strip is going to be something other than a collection of retail stores surrounded by parking. Even something like Utica Square over there would end up being same ol same ol because it would just be yet one more collection of shops lost in an endless sea of more collections of shops, whatever their configuration. That part of town isnt really conducive to having a place that is "stand out" and unique. The development with the Event Center has a chance to be something once its completed. But really it will take those areas decades to evolve, infill and grow into real "places". But, even Utica Square was nothing all that special when it was itself new, suburban sprawl in the middle of a plain empty area. Only time will tell which shopping area takes off and evolves into something more or goes the way of many a run down shopping center in say, far east Tulsa.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=32&articleid=20110614_32_E1_Threey231559
looks like this project is getting started! The article states it will take 12-14 weeks to complete. I think that is a little ambitous myself.
I live about a mile away and it has finally started. It appears they're building a Lifetime fitness.
Quote from: Stone on June 24, 2011, 10:16:43 AM
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=32&articleid=20110614_32_E1_Threey231559
looks like this project is getting started! The article states it will take 12-14 weeks to complete. I think that is a little ambitous myself.
That was a misprint. The developer shared with me that the Lifetime Fitness building will be a pre-fab building primarily built off-site then brought in and assembled. Looking at twelve to fourteen months.
A Whole Foods won't go here, however, that isn't for a lack of trying. A chain organic/speciality/Whole Foods type grocer will be going into this development. They are also in talks with several well known midtown/downtown restauranters to bring their concepts to the development.
I live a few miles from there myself. It is something south Tulsa has desperately needed. Lifetime Fitness is the bomb!!
Speaking of Trader Joe's, I went to one in Nashville last weekend and noticed they can't sell wine in their stores either. Tennessee Law. They can sell strong beer though.