KTUL catching flak about the old coal mines under this almost sq. mile of a Tulsa neighborhood.
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Originally posted by ARGUS
KTUL catching flak about the old coal mines under this almost sq. mile of a Tulsa neighborhood.
Argus, next time, take it easy on the details.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Originally posted by ARGUS
KTUL catching flak about the old coal mines under this almost sq. mile of a Tulsa neighborhood.
Argus, next time, take it easy on the details.
KTUL used to be in the coal business?
Its not breaking news. That area, which actually extends east of Yale and north of 21st was a working open pit strip mine that was filled in and built upon. Probably radon gas seeping out too. No basements to speak of in the area but crawl spaces could accumulate the gas. There is some shifting of land in the area too.
Why are they getting flak?
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Its not breaking news. That area, which actually extends east of Yale and north of 21st was a working open pit strip mine that was filled in and built upon. Probably radon gas seeping out too. No basements to speak of in the area but crawl spaces could accumulate the gas. There is some shifting of land in the area too.
Why are they getting flak?
Some home owners in that area are freaking out about loss of equity due to a reporter with an over active imagination and a lack of responsible journalism.
This whole town has coal mines under it but he focused on one section of town and quoted a state worker "I wouldn't buy a house in this square mile".
Heads up, apparently KTUL.com won't allow you to call their reporters "jackasses" on their comments section.
over
quote:
Heads up, apparently KTUL.com won't allow you to call their reporters "jackasses" on their comments section.
Did you get a spanking over there?
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Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Heads up, apparently KTUL.com won't allow you to call their reporters "jackasses" on their comments section.
Did you get a spanking over there?
Interesting question Guido. I used to ask the same thing when looking for a place to take a date.
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Originally posted by Townsend
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Originally posted by guido911
quote:
Heads up, apparently KTUL.com won't allow you to call their reporters "jackasses" on their comments section.
Did you get a spanking over there?
Interesting question Guido. I used to ask the same thing when looking for a place to take a date.
Well said.
I own a house in that area. So do my neighbors. No problems with gas smell. Death from gas. Or my house shifting in the slightest.
Too bad it was an open put. When I read the headline I was going to start digging down tonight to find myself a secret storage area below my house.
I wonder if Conman, oops I meant Cannon Fodder, will start begging for a government bail out if problems start to occur or he will stay true to his neocon moron values?
You've been Mumaloed
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I own a house in that area. So do my neighbors. No problems with gas smell. Death from gas. Or my house shifting in the slightest.
Too bad it was an open put. When I read the headline I was going to start digging down tonight to find myself a secret storage area below my house.
My parents live about half way between Yale and Sheridan. They have had piers put under their home to adjust for the shifting. But then its nothing unusual around town, especially farther east and on hill sides. My mom remembers the coal pits and says even Sears is built over a large golf course that was a filled in strip pit. They didn't seem to be concerned either. The radon is present in minute quantities wherever coal deposits may have been. Radon detectors are readily available to check and testing is sometimes required as part of a prepurchase inspection but once again, it isn't a serious problem. I actually enjoy the greenish aura I carry around.[;)]
I heard that guy say something about not wanting to live in the area and didn't even realize how silly that sounded. There are no sinkholes forming in the area. Now downtown....
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Originally posted by waterboy
I heard that guy say something about not wanting to live in the area and didn't even realize how silly that sounded. There are no sinkholes forming in the area. Now downtown....
Yep. Check the stormwater plan for downtown and you'll find a section on "subsurface voids."
um....sounds like it is time to do some horizontal drilling. and I know just the company to do it.
I like channel 2
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Originally posted by Im calling you out
I like channel 2
Why? Do you ask them the same questions you ask Tulsa Now?
quote:
Originally posted by Im calling you out
I like channel 2
I like kitties!
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Originally posted by inteller
um....sounds like it is time to do some horizontal drilling. and I know just the company to do it.
Burns slant drilling? [:D]
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Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I own a house in that area. So do my neighbors. No problems with gas smell. Death from gas. Or my house shifting in the slightest.
Too bad it was an open put. When I read the headline I was going to start digging down tonight to find myself a secret storage area below my house.
I don't think the area they are talking about extends to our side of the B.A.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
I wonder if my hero, oops I meant Cannon Fodder, will start begging for a government bail out if problems start to occur or he will stay true to his neocon moron values?
I'm confident you have no idea what my positions are in spite of my repeated clarifications.
I'm not against government assistance. I just think it is usually inappropriate. For instance, in New Orleans many of the people below sea level declined flood insurance because the premiums were too high - too damn bad. That would be like rejecting wind or hail insurance in Oklahoma and then holding out your hand when a storm came up. It encourages poor decisions, it punishes those who made proper choices (and spent money on insurance), and publicly subsidizes stupidity.
If the government had something to do with the coal mine (that may or may not be) under my home or they negligently cleared or covered up it's existence they should pay like anyone else. If not, and it is properly disclosed, sealed, filled or whatever - then home owners should be on their own insurance/expense. Government is not a panacea nor a replacement for companies or individuals watching out for themselves.
There are also instances in which government can act more efficiently than the private sector or needs to respond for the good of the nation - for security, economics, or other reasons. Situations where the individual payer mechanism will not work (class public street light as a simple example). It would seem building your house in a stupid area or under insuring it would not qualify.
And furthermore, my principles do not preclude me from utilizing a system for my advantage. Even if the system is flawed. If the government is dumb enough to reward my stupidity or encourages me to make negligent choices and will cover the consequences of that action, I'll play along. Otherwise I would be precluded from a litany of tax breaks, mortgage and student loan incentives and on and on. I may as well take advantage of the flaws where I can to offset the flaws elsewhere that punish me on a regular basis.
Which is why government needs to be the grown up and tell people they aren't going to get handouts for bad choices. If you argue that I'm a moron (thanks for the insult by the way) for believing that and that government should hand out cash anytime someone loses it - then our opinions are completely irreconcilable.
quote:
cannon_fodder's post as read by a liberal
New Orleans ... too damn bad. ... stupidity.
You monster!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
I wonder if my hero, oops I meant Cannon Fodder, will start begging for a government bail out if problems start to occur or he will stay true to his neocon moron values?
I'm confident you have no idea what my positions are in spite of my repeated clarifications.
I'm not against government assistance. I just think it is usually inappropriate. For instance, in New Orleans many of the people below sea level declined flood insurance because the premiums were too high - too damn bad. That would be like rejecting wind or hail insurance in Oklahoma and then holding out your hand when a storm came up. It encourages poor decisions, it punishes those who made proper choices (and spent money on insurance), and publicly subsidizes stupidity.
If the government had something to do with the coal mine (that may or may not be) under my home or they negligently cleared or covered up it's existence they should pay like anyone else. If not, and it is properly disclosed, sealed, filled or whatever - then home owners should be on their own insurance/expense. Government is not a panacea nor a replacement for companies or individuals watching out for themselves.
There are also instances in which government can act more efficiently than the private sector or needs to respond for the good of the nation - for security, economics, or other reasons. Situations where the individual payer mechanism will not work (class public street light as a simple example). It would seem building your house in a stupid area or under insuring it would not qualify.
And furthermore, my principles do not preclude me from utilizing a system for my advantage. Even if the system is flawed. If the government is dumb enough to reward my stupidity or encourages me to make negligent choices and will cover the consequences of that action, I'll play along. Otherwise I would be precluded from a litany of tax breaks, mortgage and student loan incentives and on and on. I may as well take advantage of the flaws where I can to offset the flaws elsewhere that punish me on a regular basis.
Which is why government needs to be the grown up and tell people they aren't going to get handouts for bad choices. If you argue that I'm a moron (thanks for the insult by the way) for believing that and that government should hand out cash anytime someone loses it - then our opinions are completely irreconcilable.
I always knew you were a hypocrite. If you're gonna talk the talk, you should really walk the walk.
Typical Joe Republican.
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.
All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.
In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.
Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor. Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune. It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression. Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that his in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university. Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification. He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to. Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."
How does that make my a hypocrite?
I said think the government shouldn't give handouts. I never said people shouldn't take them if offered. There is a big difference between the two even if you can't figure it out. My position is clear, reasoned and honest, nothing more.
You, on the other hand - advocate for higher taxes and more government handouts. Shall I assume you pay extra taxes, stick 2 stamps on your mail, and contributing any refunds/credits to your favorite government institution? Of course not, assuming that would be silly or a feeble attempt at making a point.
Also note that you have twice insulted me this thread yet, I have abstained from calling you any names in kind. And your "a day in the life" thing is not only not applicable (I even stated above that many public services are a proper roll of government) it has been gone over and over repeatedly. I won't bother posting the response nor the "day in the life of a liberal" that prompted it in the first place.
Do you have anything of substance or just personal attacks, assumptions, misstatements and recycled blurbs off the internet?
lol.. Double A, nominee for best post of the year. Cannon Fodder, I'm sure the liberal version is great too.. so that should teach us that a BLEND OF BOTH is the proper mix. Yin and yang.
quote:
Originally posted by jne
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I own a house in that area. So do my neighbors. No problems with gas smell. Death from gas. Or my house shifting in the slightest.
Too bad it was an open put. When I read the headline I was going to start digging down tonight to find myself a secret storage area below my house.
I don't think the area they are talking about extends to our side of the B.A.
I don't know which side of BA you live on but it closely follows 15th to 31st and Pittsburgh to near Sheridan. I think the news showed some maps with strips sprinkled through that area. That includes north of the BA at 31st. I read about it when I owned a home over there 30years ago and it is interesting to know. At the time of those strips much of old Tulsa homes and factories were burning coal for heat but we're not talking abandoned Zink mines here.
I didn't know you could buy a separate insurance policy for wind and hail? How much does it cost? Is there a wind and hail map to find out if I might be at risk?
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Originally posted by NellieBly
I didn't know you could buy a separate insurance policy for wind and hail? How much does it cost? Is there a wind and hail map to find out if I might be at risk?
Is your home located below the sky?
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Originally posted by waterboy
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Originally posted by jne
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Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I own a house in that area. So do my neighbors. No problems with gas smell. Death from gas. Or my house shifting in the slightest.
Too bad it was an open put. When I read the headline I was going to start digging down tonight to find myself a secret storage area below my house.
I don't think the area they are talking about extends to our side of the B.A.
I don't know which side of BA you live on but it closely follows 15th to 31st and Pittsburgh to near Sheridan. I think the news showed some maps with strips sprinkled through that area. That includes north of the BA at 31st. I read about it when I owned a home over there 30years ago and it is interesting to know. At the time of those strips much of old Tulsa homes and factories were burning coal for heat but we're not talking abandoned Zink mines here.
S of BA, West of Pittsburgh.
Double A wrote:
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.
All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.
<end clip>
Nice bit of plagiarism, DoubleA. I see that you and David Arnett share notes.
If you don't believe me, look at this:
http://tinyurl.com/ywpjk6
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Double A wrote:
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.
All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.
<end clip>
Nice bit of plagiarism, DoubleA. I see that you and David Arnett share notes.
If you don't believe me, look at this:
http://tinyurl.com/ywpjk6
Yeah, but I don't claim any journalistic integrity. Look a little harder and I'm sure you can find plenty of other examples.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
How does that make my a hypocrite?
Personal attack removed
As a kid in the 1960s, my parents built a new home in the then new Leisure Lanes neighborhood at 20th st. and 69th E. Ave. I remember talk of the old coal mines back then, and we used to ride our bikes over west of Sheridan, behind the old Gibsons discount and Rebubilc Bank, in the "hilltop area," looking for mine shafts! We never found any.
Point being, these old coal mines have been known for years. Buyer beware. I currently live in a 54 year old concrete slab foundation house down at 26th & Yale in the Lortondale subdivision, and have never had any foundation problems, other than small, normal settling over the years.
I think it was coal mine cave-in that destroyed the wonderful original Art-Deco grandstands on the fairgrounds. I think the location was approximately where the Microtel Hotel stands today, anyone correct me if I am wrong. Microtel seems to be holding strong. My neighborhood (original Frances Perrymen Muscogee allotment) was the sight of drilling and mining activity years ago, but I have not had any major foundation problems in my 54 year old house due to underground mines. I think this whole Channel 8 "mine issue" is just a grab for TV ratings, as the old mines are no secret and have been known about by any common citizen for years.
Cribbed from KTUL's (//%22http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0208/500264.html%22)website.
(http://www.acc-tv.com/images/ktul/external/abandonedundergroundminemap.jpg)
According to this map you have posted, my house is on the very southern fringe of the pink, mine area. My house is on 26th Street, between Yale and Darlington. No major mine settlement problems in my neighborhood that I am aware of; all settlement problems I know of have been due to typical Tulsa clay soils. But I was aware of the old mines, before I bought my house 21 years ago. I guess that just comes with being a 50 year old, lifetime Tulsa resident.
Woot I'm safe. I live South of the BA, so I'm clear of the mines per this map.
Interesting. Anyone know if they are flooded or available for spelunking? I'm way too much of a wuss for such an endeavor, but I'd love to hear or see about it.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Woot I'm safe. I live South of the BA, so I'm clear of the mines per this map.
Interesting. Anyone know if they are flooded or available for spelunking? I'm way too much of a wuss for such an endeavor, but I'd love to hear or see about it.
My understanding was that they were strip pit open mines, not tunnels. The guy on the interview seemed to be saying that the underground water seepage would erode the coal and landfill that the neigborhood sits on. He didn't really show any evidence for that other than whats happened at other sites.
I've read that one of Bruce Goff's Art Deco buildings fell victim to a mine collapse at the fairgrounds. A portion of the building began to subside into an abandoned mine. The damage was significant, and the remaining portion of the building was demolished.
Merchants Exhibit Building, designed by Bruce Goff of Endacott & Goff, 1930:
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/B4377.jpg)
Photo source: Beryl Ford Collection/Rotary Club of Tulsa, Tulsa City-County Library, Tulsa Historical Society
Where did you read that? Seems an engineer might have done some subsurface study and designed underpinnings before building such a building.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Where did you read that? Seems an engineer might have done some subsurface study and designed underpinnings before building such a building.
The mine areas (shaft mines as I recall for the most part) were shallow coal mines and are identified in a map collection that is on file at the downtown library reference desk entitled Tulsa's Physical Environment... also in this collection produced in the 70's are maps which indicate all known oil and gas wells drilled in the County and if they produced or were dry.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Where did you read that? Seems an engineer might have done some subsurface study and designed underpinnings before building such a building.
I don't remember where I read that. If I find the citation, I will post it. The building was very long and narrow. There might have been some subsurface investigation, but probably not at every point along the proposed foundations. I remember reading that only part of the building subsided. But the decision was made to remove the entire building as a result.
Cool. Someone referred to some old bleachers sinking in that area also. But what keeps this stuff from sinking now? One would think either the EXPO or Big Splash would be cracking and slipping. No need for citations, just wondering.
^ The Merchants Exhibit Building was located beneath those bleachers. The top of the grandstand is visible in the photo I posted.
Various rumors about these mines have caught my attention over the years. Pinning down hard evidence seems to be elusive though. I do find it interesting that several of you say that the mines were an open pit, since this would contridict most, if not all, of the rumors I have heard over the years.
Aren't they going to start selling a lot of that property here pretty soon? If so then channel 8 did them a service because it brings the property value down. The train from Broken Arrow to Tulsa is coming and some homes are going to be gone due to "eminent domain". This story helps incog.
The parking lot at Office Depot (NW corner of 21st and Sheridan) along with the building, was constructed after stripping coal from a shallow mine. The housing units to its west, where Roman had his airport, is sitting on a vein about 3 feet deep with about 7 feet of overburden.
The Sears store was built over a deep vein some 4 feet thick and 30 feet deep. I bought coal from this deep mine for $4 a truck load. I was given the chance to go into this shaft in a 5x5 wooden bucket I walked over to the shaft and looked down and could see the water and chickened out. It was explained that the shaft was dug deeper than the vein in order to collect the water.
One of the largest open strip mines was at the NE corner of Yale and Pine.. The last mine to close was at 193EA & Pine.
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
I've read that one of Bruce Goff's Art Deco buildings fell victim to a mine collapse at the fairgrounds. A portion of the building began to subside into an abandoned mine. The damage was significant, and the remaining portion of the building was demolished.
Merchants Exhibit Building, designed by Bruce Goff of Endacott & Goff, 1930:
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/B4377.jpg)
Photo source: Beryl Ford Collection/Rotary Club of Tulsa, Tulsa City-County Library, Tulsa Historical Society
That is a wonderful picture booWorld, one of the best I have ever seen of the old grandstand at the fairgrounds. I was only 2-3 years old when this grandstand was demolished, but I recall my dad (may he RIP) telling me stories of it and that part of it sank into coal mines on the fairgrounds. I think this structure was demolished around 1958-1959. It was built surrounding the orginal fairgrounds racetrack. The structure under the stands behind the art deco facade housed cafeteria, dormitory, and exhibit spaces.
Merchants Exhibit Building, designed by Bruce Goff of Endacott & Goff, 1930:
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/B4377.jpg)
Photo source: Beryl Ford Collection/Rotary Club of Tulsa, Tulsa City-County Library, Tulsa Historical Society
Steve: It's the best photo I've seen, also. The building description sounds interesting. I'd like to see more photos, especially color photos.
quote:
From Tulsa Art Deco, published by the Tulsa Foundation for Architecture, 2001, page 92:
The Merchants Exhibit Building (Endacott & Goff, 1930) was a new structure that was built beneath the existing grandstand of the fairgrounds. The grandstand seats were the demarcation point, the building having to conform to the circumscribed space. The grandstand was 685 feet long and 100 feet wide, and bore the distinction of being the longest building of its kind west of the Mississippi River.
The superstructure for the two-story building was of brick, concrete, and steel. The unusual brickwork in alternating layers of dark and light tan was outlined in stone trim...The main entrance was dramatically [stepped] in a Mayan corbelled pattern...
Ornamental metal work and the specially designed light fixtures were made of stainless steel. Lights were recessed into niches between each of the thirty-eight panels that made up the modernistic exterior. Lights were also built into the stonework above the main entrance and the six supplemental entrances, and turquoise blue glass was used to create a dramatic effect.
The first floor of the building provided space for the exhibits, booths, wide aisles, and a spacious lobby. The second floor was devoted to quarters for the exhibitors, dormitories, showers, and space for a later cafeteria...It was built near a coal mine, where mining activities had allegedly been confined to an area far removed from the site. But the building was lost when half of it settled into the mine.
how do you post those huge pictures?
quote:
Originally posted by buzz words
how do you post those huge pictures?
They aren't that huge, so I didn't try to re-size them. I think Admin will scale down the size if they are too large. I don't link to anything if I can't see the entire image on my screen.
It's been so long since I've read the procedure for posting images that I've forgotten the exact guidelines. You should contact Admin, and they probably will post a sticky refresher.
Aerial View of Fairgrounds, looking north:
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D7064.jpg)
Photo source: Beryl Ford Collection/Rotary Club of Tulsa, Tulsa City-County Library, Tulsa Historical Society
Here's another photo showing the Merchants Exhibit Building beneath the grandstand seating. I'm assuming this photo was taken sometime after 1942 or so when the Armory building was completed but before 1958 or 1959 when Steve remembers the Merchants Exhibit Building demolition.
It appears as though the north portion of the 1930 Art Deco building had been removed by the time this photo was taken. Perhaps that's the half which sank into the mine and the south half was demolished later.
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
Aerial View of Fairgrounds, looking north:
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/D7064.jpg)
Photo source: Beryl Ford Collection/Rotary Club of Tulsa, Tulsa City-County Library, Tulsa Historical Society
Here's another photo showing the Merchants Exhibit Building beneath the grandstand seating. I'm assuming this photo was taken sometime after 1942 or so when the Armory building was completed but before 1958 or 1959 when Steve remembers the Merchants Exhibit Building demolition.
It appears as though the north portion of the 1930 Art Deco building had been removed by the time this photo was taken. Perhaps that's the half which sank into the mine and the south half was demolished later.
Another magnificent historic photo post BooWorld. Although I was an infant when the original grandstand existed, I recall my dad telling stories of its demise. I clearly remember when the IPE building was constructed (I refuse to call this structure the "Quik Trip Center" as it will always be the IPE building in my mind!) My family, including myself, attended the original IPE building dedication in 1966; my father was in the insurance property/casualty busines, his main client being Kerr McGee Oil of OKC and other oil/gas interests.
The old Merchants/Exhibit grandstand was located approximately where Big Splash and the Microtel is today. I have not heard of any problems they have had with excessive foundation settling, so I assume the coal mine issue is not much of a factor today for fairgrounds development.
As an historic note, at the bottom of the picture where the residential lot photo is cut off, is the location of the original Lortondale neighborhood model homes, at Pittsburgh & 21st Place. You can just see the north swatch of these lots in the photo. The original Lortondale model homes still stand today at 21st Place & Pittsburg as constructed in late 1953, although some are much altered from the original, and they were the original test/model homes for the modern Lortondale subdivision built at 26th St. & Yale by famed Tulsa homebuilder Howard Grubb. A way cool pic. Thanks.
World prices for thermal coal, used in power stations, are likely to rise sharply in the next few years as China becomes a net importer of the fuel earlier than expected, says Mineweb. European coal prices have already risen to about $70 a tonne from $52 at the end of 2005, it adds. This should benefit mining companies such as Xstrata, Rio Tinto and BHP Billiton. Meanwhile China's rush to produce the coal it needs from its own ramshackle mines is having tragic consequences.
Follow the link:http://www.lincenergy.us
quote:
Originally posted by kennedy
World prices for thermal coal, used in power stations, are likely to rise sharply in the next few years as China becomes a net importer of the fuel earlier than expected, says Mineweb. European coal prices have already risen to about $70 a tonne from $52 at the end of 2005, it adds. This should benefit mining companies such as Xstrata, Rio Tinto and BHP Billiton. Meanwhile China's rush to produce the coal it needs from its own ramshackle mines is having tragic consequences.
Follow the link:http://www.lincenergy.us
(http://www.appscout.com/images/spam%20boy.jpg)
Anyone find it odd that Argus started this thread & never posted again?
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelWayne_71
Anyone find it odd that Argus started this thread & never posted again?
It was an active thread, but at one time the moderators would take old threads and delete all but the first response to save a few megabytes of space. Very confusing when you want to research older topics.