Target.....super?
Dallas development group with Troy Aikman as the hook.
The neighbors who want to stop this must live in another world.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080119_1_A11_hHome23115
Don't see any mention of tenants in the story.
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Target.....super?
Dallas development group with Troy Aikman as the hook.
The neighbors who want to stop this must live in another world.
no we live in the neighborhood, Target lives in another world and wants to destroy ours.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Target.....super?
Dallas development group with Troy Aikman as the hook.
The neighbors who want to stop this must live in another world.
no we live in the neighborhood, Target lives in another world and wants to destroy ours.
You holding out for a Super WalMart? Oh, yeah, there's one just down the road at 111th. Did it destroy that area?
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Target.....super?
Dallas development group with Troy Aikman as the hook.
The neighbors who want to stop this must live in another world.
no we live in the neighborhood, Target lives in another world and wants to destroy ours.
You holding out for a Super WalMart? Oh, yeah, there's one just down the road at 111th. Did it destroy that area?
when it was built it was not abutting a residential neighborhood.
I never would've guessed Inteller was a nimby.
Oh I'm enjoying it immensely. We should pay to move him downtown--Tulsa probably couldn't hire a more zealous advocate.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Target.....super?
Dallas development group with Troy Aikman as the hook.
The neighbors who want to stop this must live in another world.
no we live in the neighborhood, Target lives in another world and wants to destroy ours.
You holding out for a Super WalMart? Oh, yeah, there's one just down the road at 111th. Did it destroy that area?
when it was built it was not abutting a residential neighborhood.
Isn't that corner currently home to fireworks stands? It looks like it is and always has been big box bait. Not being snarky, just curious why a neighborhood near an obvious commercial development tract in a suburban setting would be surprised or object to a Target moving in. Isn't that what the burbs are about? Surely better than more huge car lots or an expanded QuikTrip.
I keep hearing that the Super Target is going in at 121st and Memorial. Seemed to be dead for a while but the rumors have come roaring back lately
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
I keep hearing that the Super Target is going in at 121st and Memorial. Seemed to be dead for a while but the rumors have come roaring back lately
Hopefully not. That wouldn't be any help to Tulsa's sales tax collections.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
I keep hearing that the Super Target is going in at 121st and Memorial. Seemed to be dead for a while but the rumors have come roaring back lately
It's apparently dead now.....
Maybe that's who is behind the nimby group at 101st.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Isn't that corner currently home to fireworks stands? It looks like it is and always has been big box bait. Not being snarky, just curious why a neighborhood near an obvious commercial development tract in a suburban setting would be surprised or object to a Target moving in. Isn't that what the burbs are about? Surely better than more huge car lots or an expanded QuikTrip.
Fireworks are the SE corner, this is the NE corner which has been advertising a shopping center that looks like a town square for about 4 years now.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Target.....super?
Dallas development group with Troy Aikman as the hook.
The neighbors who want to stop this must live in another world.
no we live in the neighborhood, Target lives in another world and wants to destroy ours.
You holding out for a Super WalMart? Oh, yeah, there's one just down the road at 111th. Did it destroy that area?
when it was built it was not abutting a residential neighborhood.
Isn't that corner currently home to fireworks stands? It looks like it is and always has been big box bait. Not being snarky, just curious why a neighborhood near an obvious commercial development tract in a suburban setting would be surprised or object to a Target moving in. Isn't that what the burbs are about? Surely better than more huge car lots or an expanded QuikTrip.
wrong corner.
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
I keep hearing that the Super Target is going in at 121st and Memorial. Seemed to be dead for a while but the rumors have come roaring back lately
It's apparently dead now.....
Maybe that's who is behind the nimby group at 101st.
no.
however I wouldn't be surprised if representatives from Bixby gov show up to protest the HUGE stormwater retention problems paving over that corner is going to cause. Bumgarner has the audacity to think he can make stormwater run uphill into the residential retention pond next door.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I never would've guessed Inteller was a nimby.
I'm not nimby, I'm against incompatible development. I WANT something on that corner, but something that is compatible with the traffic conditions and character of the surrounding neighborhoods. At 101st/sheridan you have the Shoppes of Seville....and 101st/Mingo they are getting Plaza del Sol.....but because we are at Memorial we have to settle for a big ****ing box? I don't think so.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I never would've guessed Inteller was a nimby.
I'm not nimby, I'm against incompatible development. I WANT something on that corner, but something that is compatible with the traffic conditions and character of the surrounding neighborhoods. At 101st/sheridan you have the Shoppes of Seville....and 101st/Mingo they are getting Plaza del Sol.....but because we are at Memorial we have to settle for a big ****ing box? I don't think so.
I think Inteller just graduated TulsaNow University...
The neighborhood at 101st and Memorial actually has character?!
[}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
The neighborhood at 101st and Memorial actually has character?!
[}:)]
We know it has at least 1 character.
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
I keep hearing that the Super Target is going in at 121st and Memorial. Seemed to be dead for a while but the rumors have come roaring back lately
It's apparently dead now.....
Maybe that's who is behind the nimby group at 101st.
Interesting. It has been strange how the rumors of Target had come back to life so strong lately. For the longest time the talk was that Target had pulled out and that now a Reasor's was going in as an anchor store. Then BAM!!! Target is back.
Really interested to see what actually happens at 121st now.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
The neighborhood at 101st and Memorial actually has character?!
[}:)]
If you call suburban sprawl character. [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
I keep hearing that the Super Target is going in at 121st and Memorial. Seemed to be dead for a while but the rumors have come roaring back lately
It's apparently dead now.....
Maybe that's who is behind the nimby group at 101st.
Interesting. It has been strange how the rumors of Target had come back to life so strong lately. For the longest time the talk was that Target had pulled out and that now a Reasor's was going in as an anchor store. Then BAM!!! Target is back.
Really interested to see what actually happens at 121st now.
Target claims they cant get enough parking spaces at 121st. Bull****. We all know they just want to be first along memorial before you get to walmart. But how many people, after getting pissed off just getting between 169 and 101st, are then going to make several dangerous left turns to go to Target? I bet they'll just continue straight on down to make a righty into Wal-Mart.
I agree with Inteller. Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza. They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso. I think they know what it takes to get Target. There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st. That location is better suited for Target anyway. You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st. I think the Bixby location would be better for them.
However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission. Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores. That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area. That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years. Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores. Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either. Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail. If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.
Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso. If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much. Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail. Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.
quote:
Originally posted by Composer
I agree with Inteller. Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza. They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso. I think they know what it takes to get Target. There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st. That location is better suited for Target anyway. You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st. I think the Bixby location would be better for them.
However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission. Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores. That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area. That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years. Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores. Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either. Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail. If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.
Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso. If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much. Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail. Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.
i can't think of anything that would be more embarassing politically to Tulsa, no grocery store in north tulsa and 3 grocery stores at one intersection in south tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by Composer
I agree with Inteller. Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza. They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso. I think they know what it takes to get Target. There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st. That location is better suited for Target anyway. You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st. I think the Bixby location would be better for them.
However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission. Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores. That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area. That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years. Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores. Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either. Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail. If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.
Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso. If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much. Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail. Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.
Target's decision is based on their own studies using demographics and competition locations. The ability of a developer to deliver their needs is paramount.
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
quote:
Originally posted by Composer
I agree with Inteller. Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza. They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso. I think they know what it takes to get Target. There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st. That location is better suited for Target anyway. You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st. I think the Bixby location would be better for them.
However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission. Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores. That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area. That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years. Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores. Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either. Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail. If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.
Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso. If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much. Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail. Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.
Target's decision is based on their own studies using demographics and competition locations. The ability of a developer to deliver their needs is paramount.
hahaha, what a joke. Yeah, I'm sure their "complex" demographic analysis showed them that they should be at 121st, but then the human element stepped in and said "But we want to be in front of wal-mart waaaaahhhhhh!!!!"
Retailers get better demographic information than the cities actually have. It is kind of funny but they track a lot of information. Personally, I think there are political things going on here. Tulsa really wants to see a sales tax boost and having 2 new targets will definitely help that. Losing one to Bixby will only hurt.
quote:
Originally posted by Composer
Retailers get better demographic information than the cities actually have. It is kind of funny but they track a lot of information. Personally, I think there are political things going on here. Tulsa really wants to see a sales tax boost and having 2 new targets will definitely help that. Losing one to Bixby will only hurt.
well I'm sure it has turned into that. But I think what pisses me off the most is that Bumgarner has had almost a decade to get South Towne Square off the ground but squandered that. And saying that the original concept isn't viable is bull****, just look at the mixed use retail at Regal Plaza right down the street. He has numerous holdings throughout Tulsa but have ANY of them actually been developed? He looks more and more like a squatter that will sell out to the biggest box rather than a developer who will give us quality developments throughout Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by Composer
I agree with Inteller. Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza. They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso. I think they know what it takes to get Target. There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st. That location is better suited for Target anyway. You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st. I think the Bixby location would be better for them.
However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission. Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores. That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area. That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years. Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores. Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either. Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail. If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.
Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso. If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much. Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail. Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.
Not to sure about your Glenpool analysis. There is another major corner at 151st and 75 and the sign on the SE corner says sold. If Glenpool can get commercial development to take hold there (and word is buzzing about it), they would have effectively extended the retail bracketing south 3 more miles into the City limits. I know some think the area is too green, but with Bixby housing (south and west of the river) moving westward the 151st corner looks more and more viable everyday. [;)]
Remember Lowe's built and 71st & 169 and then just about 5-6 miles further south at 121st and Memorial. It wouldn't be unheard for them to be 8 miles apart (71st and 75 and 151st and 75)[:O]
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
no we live in the neighborhood, Target lives in another world and wants to destroy ours.
Yeah, Target would be worse than the movie theater, the car dealerships, and Trinity Restoration.
Or not. I'd rather have a Target in Tulsa that I can walk to than one in Bixby that I'd have to drive to.
Memorial is not Mingo, nor is it Yale. Unlike the others, Memorial is heavy commercial along almost its entire length. Perhaps one ought not live along a road of that character if one doesn't like that sort of development.
I'd be just as happy if it weren't a Super Target, but maybe a Target with groceries would get Food Pyramid to start paying attention to the product they're selling, rather than rearranging the deck chairs. A Whole Foods would also be nice. ;)
quote:
Originally posted by South County
quote:
Originally posted by Composer
I agree with Inteller. Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza. They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso. I think they know what it takes to get Target. There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st. That location is better suited for Target anyway. You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st. I think the Bixby location would be better for them.
However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission. Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores. That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area. That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years. Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores. Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either. Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail. If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.
Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso. If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much. Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail. Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.
Not to sure about your Glenpool analysis. There is another major corner at 151st and 75 and the sign on the SE corner says sold. If Glenpool can get commercial development to take hold there (and word is buzzing about it), they would have effectively extended the retail bracketing south 3 more miles into the City limits. I know some think the area is too green, but with Bixby housing (south and west of the river) moving westward the 151st corner looks more and more viable everyday. [;)]
Remember Lowe's built and 71st & 169 and then just about 5-6 miles further south at 121st and Memorial. It wouldn't be unheard for them to be 8 miles apart (71st and 75 and 151st and 75)[:O]
Isn't that SE corner owned by a church? I seem to remember a sign saying "Future home of Church name X"
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
no we live in the neighborhood, Target lives in another world and wants to destroy ours.
Yeah, Target would be worse than the movie theater, the car dealerships, and Trinity Restoration.
Or not. I'd rather have a Target in Tulsa that I can walk to than one in Bixby that I'd have to drive to.
Memorial is not Mingo, nor is it Yale. Unlike the others, Memorial is heavy commercial along almost its entire length. Perhaps one ought not live along a road of that character if one doesn't like that sort of development.
I'd be just as happy if it weren't a Super Target, but maybe a Target with groceries would get Food Pyramid to start paying attention to the product they're selling, rather than rearranging the deck chairs. A Whole Foods would also be nice. ;)
I had great hopes for Food Pyramid.....so far I've been disappointed.
We are building on Sheridan between 181st & 191st and would love a grocery store in the area other than Doc, Wal-Mart and the Pyramid." A lot of times we end up driving to the Reasor's in Jenks. The South side of the river in Bixby desperately needs a grocery store to compete with the crap hole that is Doc's. Oh well...that's a whole other story.... Sigh.
Troy Aikman and Co are trying to get the meeting postponed until the 6th of Feb. No word yet if Bumgartner will do that.
JB is smarter than everyone of us combined.
Where most land owners must give the land to Target to get a deal done, he has managed another LARGE sale price. This indicates done deal....
I wasn't trying to say that nothing will ever happen in Glenpool. What I meant to say is that retail growth will be delayed since Tulsa beat them to it. Same with 71st and Broken Arrow. It has taken nearly 10 years, but Broken Arrow is not getting some good retail.
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
JB is smarter than everyone of us combined.
Where most land owners must give the land to Target to get a deal done, he has managed another LARGE sale price. This indicates done deal....
nothing is done until the TMAPC and council approves it (or in the event they roll over, until the appeals process is exhausted)
Price of land for development at 101st and Memorial, 2.3 million dollars
Price to build a Super Target store on the land, 25 million dollars
Watching a complete Inteller meltdown over a target store being built on Memorial, priceless.
just a backgrounder on the guy pushing this through.
http://www.tulsanow.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3791
His audacity knows no bounds.
And just like in that case, he thinks he can agree to rules set years ago and then simply opt out of them.
Target Corp. recently paid $2.58 million for 11 acres of land along the Broken Arrow Expressway in Broken Arrow for a General Merchandise Store (approx. 127,000 Sq. ft.)
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by South County
quote:
Originally posted by Composer
I agree with Inteller. Hunt Properties is developing Bixby Centennial Plaza. They are the same company that developed Smith Farm in Owasso. I think they know what it takes to get Target. There are plenty of parking spaces for Target at 121st. That location is better suited for Target anyway. You can take 121st west all the way to Riverside Dr. and Memorial is not as crowded at 121st. I think the Bixby location would be better for them.
However, I think the city of Tulsa has a mission. Their mission is to fill the boundaries of the city with retail so that the suburbs have less of a chance to get big box stores. That is exactly what they did at 71st and Garnett/169 area. That development but a damper on Broken Arrow getting retail for several years. Now Broken Arrow is finally getting a Target and Marshall's and many other stores. Tulsa saw what happened in Owasso and does not want to see that happen in Bixby either. Broken Arrow will continue to grow far enough east that they will be able to get more retail. If Tulsa puts a Target bordering Bixby, the city of Bixby will lose out on ever getting a Target.
Many North Tulsa shoppers shop in Owasso. If Tulsa could figure out how to get a Wal-Mart or Target near N. Tulsa, people would not be traveling to Owasso as much. Tulsa Hills is a way at keeping people from going to Jenks or Glenpool for retail. Yes, Glenpool is getting a nice Wal-Mart but I would not look for them to get a Best Buy, Target, or Lowe's.
Not to sure about your Glenpool analysis. There is another major corner at 151st and 75 and the sign on the SE corner says sold. If Glenpool can get commercial development to take hold there (and word is buzzing about it), they would have effectively extended the retail bracketing south 3 more miles into the City limits. I know some think the area is too green, but with Bixby housing (south and west of the river) moving westward the 151st corner looks more and more viable everyday. [;)]
Remember Lowe's built and 71st & 169 and then just about 5-6 miles further south at 121st and Memorial. It wouldn't be unheard for them to be 8 miles apart (71st and 75 and 151st and 75)[:O]
Isn't that SE corner owned by a church? I seem to remember a sign saying "Future home of Church name X"
They are getting cheaper land down the road (151st) from their association. I beleive they are looking to sell their 5 acres to build on the cheaper land.
did I not read somewhere that Target was going to locate at 95th and Deleware?
quote:
Originally posted by Composer
I wasn't trying to say that nothing will ever happen in Glenpool. What I meant to say is that retail growth will be delayed since Tulsa beat them to it. Same with 71st and Broken Arrow. It has taken nearly 10 years, but Broken Arrow is not getting some good retail.
Ok... but I see it a bit differently. I think the 71st center actually proved that development will work west of the river. Now developers and retailers are looking all along the south 75 corridoor for opportunity. Just ask McGraw or Frisbee.
quote:
Originally posted by South County
quote:
Originally posted by Composer
I wasn't trying to say that nothing will ever happen in Glenpool. What I meant to say is that retail growth will be delayed since Tulsa beat them to it. Same with 71st and Broken Arrow. It has taken nearly 10 years, but Broken Arrow is not getting some good retail.
Ok... but I see it a bit differently. I think the 71st center actually proved that development will work west of the river. Now developers and retailers are looking all along the south 75 corridoor for opportunity. Just ask McGraw or Frisbee.
as long as they don't try to push heavy retail up against residential neighborhoods out there, more power to them.
Looks to me like the nighborhoods are going to start filling in around the retail there. I can imagine there will be some decent apartment complexes in that area as well. Often on hwy 75 going into Dallas you have the retail right on the corridor, behind that businesses and or apartments, then single home residential behind those. Memorial should follow that pattern as well. Retail, offices/apartments, homes. Who is in charge of zoning around this town anyway? lol
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Memorial should follow that pattern as well. Retail, offices/apartments, homes. Who is in charge of zoning around this town anyway? lol
actually, for large portions of memorial that is the case. but I think a large problem is looking north south for examples when we need to look east/west for examples. Look at examples like Chimney Hills, not examples like 71st/memorial. hell, even the examples of development at 71st/memorial are better than this attempt to slap major retail right up against single family residential.
I guess I am a bad person because I am looking forward to cutting through that neighborhood from my (smaller, less expensive)neighborhood to get to Super Target.
But I wouldn't want the bright lots of Target shining in my backyard. That would really suck if you lived in the villas, but I always supposed something was going to go in that big chunk of land.
Did Burning Tree try to fight the Walmart?
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Memorial should follow that pattern as well. Retail, offices/apartments, homes. Who is in charge of zoning around this town anyway? lol
actually, for large portions of memorial that is the case. but I think a large problem is looking north south for examples when we need to look east/west for examples. Look at examples like Chimney Hills, not examples like 71st/memorial. hell, even the examples of development at 71st/memorial are better than this attempt to slap major retail right up against single family residential.
Population density is a lot lower two miles south at 121st. I would also assume that the average income in a five mile radius starting at 121st is quite a bit lower than a five mile radius starting at 101st.
And your traffic argument is valid, but not in the way you assume. A higher traffic count at 101st is a positive to the store. And 101st site has better accessibility being two miles closer to the Creek Turnpike. The 121st site is less attractive for people that would come to the store from points along the Creek. Fewer people with less money at a site with lower traffic counts and a worse accessibility, it's a slam dunk and why Target is willing to pay for the site as opposed to getting the land for free.
Lastly, the city of Tulsa needs the tax revenue. The site at 101st conforms with the City of Tulsa's zoning plan and also with the city's overall strategy to build retail on the edges of the city that captures sales tax revenue from suburban communities.
It's not that a store would not be viable at 121st, it's that the demographics and accessibility of a store at 101st are so much better and the location is where the city of Tulsa wants the store.
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
I guess I am a bad person because I am looking forward to cutting through that neighborhood from my (smaller, less expensive)neighborhood to get to Super Target.
But I wouldn't want the bright lots of Target shining in my backyard. That would really suck if you lived in the villas, but I always supposed something was going to go in that big chunk of land.
Did Burning Tree try to fight the Walmart?
if it goes through we are going to put a gate up and cut your donkey off so you can forget about that idea.
The walmart at 68th is a different monkey because the site was not directly abutting single family residential. You have four lanes of street and then additional setbacks separating Wal-mart from burning tree. Four lanes of interior collector that provide the necessary traffic relief that this proposal does not provide.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
I guess I am a bad person because I am looking forward to cutting through that neighborhood from my (smaller, less expensive)neighborhood to get to Super Target.
if it goes through we are going to put a gate up and cut your donkey off so you can forget about that idea.
Illegally blocking a public thoroughfare, that should work out well for you.
I would not live close to Memorial myself if I didn't like living close to retail developments...life...people
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
I would not live close to Memorial myself if I didn't like living close to retail developments...life...people
I live close to memorial for retail too. The RIGHT kind of retail. I suppose you never saw the site plan for South Towne Square. Because if you had you'd be pissed about the new proposal. It is a cop out, taking the easy road.
If STS was built as proposed, you'd have a future Tulsa landmark on your hands. People would say Utica Square and STS in the same sentence.
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
But I wouldn't want the bright lots of Target shining in my backyard.
A July 2001 article for the trade magazine "Shopping Center World":
"Brighter, whiter and smarter are the keywords for the future of shopping center lighting plans"
Next to that is an ad for Fort Worth-based WLS lighting:
"Benderson Development, Heritage Realty Food Lion and
Target are just a few of the companies that realize brighter parking lots mean more night time sales and help their store or center stand out from the
competition."
Just so you know Target is committed to "Moth-effect Marketing," and that they also stock the thick black curtains you will need to make your bedroom sleepable again at night...
..otherwise, I'd familiarize myself with the Zoning Ordinance covered under Title 42, Section 1303-C, which says:
"Lighting used to illuminate an off-street parking area shall be so arranged as to shield and light away from properties within an R District which do not contain uses for which the parking is being provided. Shielding of such light shall be designed so as to prevent the light-producing element of the light fixture from being visible to a person standing in an R District."
oh, myself and others have become well versed in City of Tulsa zoning code. Come Feb 6th the fireworks are gonna fly.
Bumgarner wouldnt talk to neighbors with reporters witnessing the meeting. Delayed the meeting 25 minutes to run them off.
Not a good sign.
The 7 p.m. meeting was delayed for nearly 25 minutes when the developer objected to media representatives' attendance.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080124_1_A11_hResi87503
Don Bouvier of Direct Development of Dallas, one of the presenters at the meeting, said before it began that he had understood that the discussions would be private. He said the meeting would not take place if the media remained in the room.
Earlier in the day, an attorney for the developer, Lou Reynolds, had asked the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission to continue the public hearing on the case to give the developer an opportunity to provide residents with a more-detailed rendering of the proposal.
Reynolds later shared the time and date of the meeting with at least two reporters.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
Bumgarner wouldnt talk to neighbors with reporters witnessing the meeting. Delayed the meeting 25 minutes to run them off.
Not a good sign.
The 7 p.m. meeting was delayed for nearly 25 minutes when the developer objected to media representatives' attendance.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080124_1_A11_hResi87503
Don Bouvier of Direct Development of Dallas, one of the presenters at the meeting, said before it began that he had understood that the discussions would be private. He said the meeting would not take place if the media remained in the room.
Earlier in the day, an attorney for the developer, Lou Reynolds, had asked the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission to continue the public hearing on the case to give the developer an opportunity to provide residents with a more-detailed rendering of the proposal.
Reynolds later shared the time and date of the meeting with at least two reporters.
well, actually it was the turds from Dallas that didn't want their lipstick on a pig plans shown to the public, but they are all scum of the earth. the actually tried to pull a fast one and get the continuance date pushed up but that didnt fly.
we have some fun things in store for them on the 6th. I hope Bumgarner likes to party.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by patric
Bumgarner wouldnt talk to neighbors with reporters witnessing the meeting. Delayed the meeting 25 minutes to run them off.
Not a good sign.
The 7 p.m. meeting was delayed for nearly 25 minutes when the developer objected to media representatives' attendance.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080124_1_A11_hResi87503
Don Bouvier of Direct Development of Dallas, one of the presenters at the meeting, said before it began that he had understood that the discussions would be private. He said the meeting would not take place if the media remained in the room.
Earlier in the day, an attorney for the developer, Lou Reynolds, had asked the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission to continue the public hearing on the case to give the developer an opportunity to provide residents with a more-detailed rendering of the proposal.
Reynolds later shared the time and date of the meeting with at least two reporters.
well, actually it was the turds from Dallas that didn't want their lipstick on a pig plans shown to the public, but they are all scum of the earth. the actually tried to pull a fast one and get the continuance date pushed up but that didnt fly.
we have some fun things in store for them on the 6th. I hope Bumgarner likes to party.
oooohhhh we like parties...what do you have in store?!!
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by patric
Bumgarner wouldnt talk to neighbors with reporters witnessing the meeting. Delayed the meeting 25 minutes to run them off.
Not a good sign.
The 7 p.m. meeting was delayed for nearly 25 minutes when the developer objected to media representatives' attendance.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080124_1_A11_hResi87503
Don Bouvier of Direct Development of Dallas, one of the presenters at the meeting, said before it began that he had understood that the discussions would be private. He said the meeting would not take place if the media remained in the room.
Earlier in the day, an attorney for the developer, Lou Reynolds, had asked the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission to continue the public hearing on the case to give the developer an opportunity to provide residents with a more-detailed rendering of the proposal.
Reynolds later shared the time and date of the meeting with at least two reporters.
well, actually it was the turds from Dallas that didn't want their lipstick on a pig plans shown to the public, but they are all scum of the earth. the actually tried to pull a fast one and get the continuance date pushed up but that didnt fly.
we have some fun things in store for them on the 6th. I hope Bumgarner likes to party.
oooohhhh we like parties...what do you have in store?!!
its a SURPRISE party. can't give anything away.
Does the PUD show commercial development substantially different from what the Super Target now being proposed?
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
Does the PUD show commercial development substantially different from what the Super Target now being proposed?
yes.
the major amendments they want are:
a bigger building footprint
a taller building
a building set back much closer to the residential area than allowed.
much more parking than previously allowed.
and there is a litany of minor amendments tht are small fries compared to this.
just remember, if they allow this in our neighborhood, when will they do it to you?
They've already "done" it to my property. Not in terms of commercial development, but in terms of changing the rules of allowed densities in my residential neighborhood. I wasn't pleased with the outcome, but the unfair process is what I found deplorable and shameful. It certainly was an eye-opener.
Best of luck with your surprise party. If nothing else, take lots of recording devices to any and all meetings. I've found the TMAPC equipment to malfunction at critical moments with "inaudible" recorded into the office meeting minutes.
I was looking for an online link to PUD-411 or PUD-411C or whatever. I couldn't find anything.
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
They've already "done" it to my property. Not in terms of commercial development, but in terms of changing the rules of allowed densities in my residential neighborhood. I wasn't pleased with the outcome, but the unfair process is what I found deplorable and shameful. It certainly was an eye-opener.
Best of luck with your surprise party. If nothing else, take lots of recording devices to any and all meetings. I've found the TMAPC equipment to malfunction at critical moments with "inaudible" recorded into the office meeting minutes.
I was looking for an online link to PUD-411 or PUD-411C or whatever. I couldn't find anything.
if you would please, send an email to your district councilor and tell them about this development and ask them when neighborhoods are going to get some rights back.
If you have a neighborhood advocacy group in your area, let them know about this too. We need their support at the meetings.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
if you would please, send an email to your district councilor and tell them about this development and ask them when neighborhoods are going to get some rights back.
If you have a neighborhood advocacy group in your area, let them know about this too. We need their support at the meetings.
I'm not sure if your reply is directed toward me in particular or toward interested Tulsans in general.
That said, my councilor is Maria Barnes. I've read that she began her public service as a neighborhood leader in the Kendall-Whittier area. I've left several voicemails for her and sent her emails about the subject of sidewalks. She has never replied to me. You might be able to get her on your side on this issue -- honestly, I don't know.
Councilor Barnes has some opponents in the contest for the District 4 seat. Another idea is to try to get some of them on your side if you can. It sounds as though you are up for a fight, but be prepared to be villainized and slaughtered.
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
if you would please, send an email to your district councilor and tell them about this development and ask them when neighborhoods are going to get some rights back.
If you have a neighborhood advocacy group in your area, let them know about this too. We need their support at the meetings.
I'm not sure if your reply is directed toward me in particular or toward interested Tulsans in general.
That said, my councilor is Maria Barnes. I've read that she began her public service as a neighborhood leader in the Kendall-Whittier area. I've left several voicemails for her and sent her emails about the subject of sidewalks. She has never replied to me. You might be able to get her on your side on this issue -- honestly, I don't know.
Councilor Barnes has some opponents in the contest for the District 4 seat. Another idea is to try to get some of them on your side if you can. It sounds as though you are up for a fight, but be prepared to be villainized and slaughtered.
my comments were directed to Tulsans in general.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
my comments were directed to Tulsans in general.
You might try to get more people behind your cause, such as the residents of the Yorktown neighborhood near 16th & Victor, the people who live in the vicinity of 71st & Harvard, etc.
"When you only have two pennies left in the world, you won't be able to afford to hire an attorney versed in Tulsa's Zoning Code. But who knows? Perhaps one will take your case pro bono."
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
my comments were directed to Tulsans in general.
You might try to get more people behind your cause, such as the residents of the Yorktown neighborhood near 16th & Victor, the people who live in the vicinity of 71st & Harvard, etc.
"When you only have two pennies left in the world, you won't be able to afford to hire an attorney versed in Tulsa's Zoning Code. But who knows? Perhaps one will take your case pro bono."
thanks, I'll look into that.
Well, Bumgarner is a truly classless thug. He said he wanted to punch one of the homeowners in the mouth at a meeting with them last night.
I thought all of these types of people with their oil baron like attitudes were dead...stuff of movies like 'There Will Be Blood'
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
Well, Bumgarner is a truly classless thug. He said he wanted to punch one of the homeowners in the mouth at a meeting with them last night.
I thought all of these types of people with their oil baron like attitudes were dead...stuff of movies like 'There Will Be Blood'
You're gonna have to provide some proof to back up that statement.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
Well, Bumgarner is a truly classless thug. He said he wanted to punch one of the homeowners in the mouth at a meeting with them last night.
I thought all of these types of people with their oil baron like attitudes were dead...stuff of movies like 'There Will Be Blood'
You're gonna have to provide some proof to back up that statement.
I was there. Bill Christiansen witnessed it too.
Well that is classy. haha
Anything new on this?
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
Anything new on this?
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080206_1_A13_hResi36326
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
Anything new on this?
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080206_1_A13_hResi36326
they are going to retract some of their changes to make it a minor amendment, so we will have to appeal it to the City Council.
It sounds like you are winning in getting some concessions.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
It sounds like you are winning in getting some concessions.
sorta.
Who is JB using for legal on this?
Tell me and I might be able to help guess the eventual result....
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Who is JB using for legal on this?
Tell me and I might be able to help guess the eventual result....
Lou Reynolds.
Hey inteller, those are some nice illegally placed signs you've got out there on Memorial. ;)
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
Hey inteller, those are some nice illegally placed signs you've got out there on Memorial. ;)
they aren't "my" signs. but if signs are the only thing you are concerned about with this issue you have your priorities wrong.
What did the neighbors think when they bought homes abutting the backside of the property?
Harkening back on the Nelson dealership zoning down the street, I tend to think we will see some compromise. But as many here have suggested, Tulsa needs this development and passage is likely. Property rights are just that.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
Hey inteller, those are some nice illegally placed signs you've got out there on Memorial. ;)
they aren't "my" signs. but if signs are the only thing you are concerned about with this issue you have your priorities wrong.
My priorities are obviously not where yours are, given that I think the development should be fine, given that they are being required to keep their light away from the residential areas. I think they probably ought to have only pedestrian access to the neighborhoods, too.
I somehow doubt you'd support the development regardless.
Perusing the website advertised on the illegally placed signs did lead me to believe that most of your neighbors are twits. They think that a Wal-Mart a mile away is a good reason to not have a Target next door? They think the rest of the city should pay for you to have gates installed and then continue to pay for the street maintenance in your newly gated community?
I do think it might be wise to eliminate access to the subdivision from 84th, but installing gates at taxpayer expense? I think not.
Reading the proposal posted, I was struck by how reasonable the developers were being. All the issues the neighborhood residents have put forth have been issues for many, many years, ever since the dealerships were put in.
I'm sorry your developer chose to ram the houses up against what was always intended to be heavy commercial development. Memorial is not Mingo, and it never has been, despite what many of your neighbors seem to think. Your opposition reminds me of people who move near a major airport and then complain about the noise. Of course, a bit more foresight would have provided a nice solution to the issue. It's too bad that in this part of the country, cities don't require developers to install collector streets inside large subdivisions, thus mitigating the impact of any cut through traffic, since no houses front on the collector street.
Despite all that, I still think the development should be required to mitigate their impact by installing decent lighting fixtures and making an effort to prevent late night noise.
Of course, I might be biased because I have experienced the impacts of heavy commercial development directly adjacent to single family homes and seen that when there is no direct access, it's a non issue. Of course, that's in Fayetteville, not Tulsa. Maybe something magical happens in Oklahoma to make it a problem.
I'll be very happy to see this thing go in. I'd be even happier if I lived closer to it.
the developer threatening to punch one of the homeowners is reasonable?
and you are sitting there complaining about tax payers putting in gates, have you seen the litany of things the developer wants tax payers to fit the bill for? 2 traffic signals for starters. And they tax payers will be paying for all the extra officers to take care of the increased crime at target. don't sit there all smug and lecture us about tax dollars.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
the developer threatening to punch one of the homeowners is reasonable?
and you are sitting there complaining about tax payers putting in gates, have you seen the litany of things the developer wants tax payers to fit the bill for? 2 traffic signals for starters. And they tax payers will be paying for all the extra officers to take care of the increased crime at target. don't sit there all smug and lecture us about tax dollars.
Is Tulsa so behind the times as to not have impact fees to pay for things like traffic lights? Besides, I can drive through the traffic lights, making use of them, all day long if I so choose. If we all pay to put up gates in your neighborhood and still end up paying for the streets, that's an entirely different story.
Increased crime at Target? I think you're just grasping at straws here. Surely you're not so anti-development in general to expect me to believe that's a valid argument against this development. I think everything in the original proposal plus not having entrances on the side street is a pretty reasonable accomodation.
Given that I haven't been present at the discussions between the developers and the homeowners, I can only go by what's in the public record, not third or fourth hand stories of threatened violence.
Target is statistically very low crime (unlike it's blue counterpart) and like stated above, the housing developer should've built a buffer zone along the boundary instead of thinking you can force the commercial side of the property line to do so.
Gates are one of the dumber ideas I've heard this week.
The developer should pay for all or part of any infrastructure changes needed, however.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Target is statistically very low crime (unlike it's blue counterpart) and like stated above, the housing developer should've built a buffer zone along the boundary instead of thinking you can force the commercial side of the property line to do so.
Gates are one of the dumber ideas I've heard this week.
The developer should pay for all or part of any infrastructure changes needed, however.
oh really? CY2007 there were 416 crimes within a half mile of target at 71st/169. CY2007 at the proposed location there were 57. That is taking into account all of the car dealerships and existing retail.
And no we don't have impact fees.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Target is statistically very low crime (unlike it's blue counterpart) and like stated above, the housing developer should've built a buffer zone along the boundary instead of thinking you can force the commercial side of the property line to do so.
Gates are one of the dumber ideas I've heard this week.
The developer should pay for all or part of any infrastructure changes needed, however.
oh really? CY2007 there were 416 crimes within a half mile of target at 71st/169. CY2007 at the proposed location there were 57. That is taking into account all of the car dealerships and existing retail.
And no we don't have impact fees.
We're talking about Target itself. There are about a hundred stores within a half mile of Target on 71st. Many of those crimes would be car theft and shoplifting.
WM @ Woodland Hills had to put up screening walls, landscaping, fix roads, etc. No reason Target shouldn't also.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Target is statistically very low crime (unlike it's blue counterpart) and like stated above, the housing developer should've built a buffer zone along the boundary instead of thinking you can force the commercial side of the property line to do so.
Gates are one of the dumber ideas I've heard this week.
The developer should pay for all or part of any infrastructure changes needed, however.
oh really? CY2007 there were 416 crimes within a half mile of target at 71st/169. CY2007 at the proposed location there were 57. That is taking into account all of the car dealerships and existing retail.
And no we don't have impact fees.
We're talking about Target itself. There are about a hundred stores within a half mile of Target on 71st. Many of those crimes would be car theft and shoplifting.
WM @ Woodland Hills had to put up screening walls, landscaping, fix roads, etc. No reason Target shouldn't also.
200 of those crimes were at the Target address itself. Try again.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
200 of those crimes were at the Target address itself. Try again.
That statistic is actually useful. Got any breakdown on what they were?
Here's what a walmat could do for you in comparison:
Reported Incident Category Wal-Mart / Target
Assault with a deadly weapon, assault, and battery 198 / 33
Auto theft 303 / 34
Robbery and attempted robbery 109 / 18
Sex crimes 31 / 14
Kidnapping and attempted kidnapping 3 / 0
Rape and attempted rape 2 / 1
Homicide and attempted homicide 221 / 0
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
200 of those crimes were at the Target address itself. Try again.
That statistic is actually useful. Got any breakdown on what they were?
mostly theft. who cares what they are, crime is crime. Crime that wasn't there before.
There was a field there before.
We drove by Ridge Pointe on our way home last night and saw a fire truck going in...My husband said "Homes are being torched in protest!" LOL
I want to hear more about this alleged fight/threats/throw down. I will say that my family is on the Bumgarner smoked ham Christmas list and whatever happens with Target better not affect my smoked meat fix.
Edited b/c see and say are not the same word.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
200 of those crimes were at the Target address itself. Try again.
That statistic is actually useful. Got any breakdown on what they were?
mostly theft. who cares what they are, crime is crime. Crime that wasn't there before.
Yes, but some kid sticking Christina Aguillera down his pants isn't a real concern, other than for his/her lacking musical appreciation.
This neighborhood association really is over the top. They want the developer to pay to make their subdivision gated? WTH?
I feel not sorry at all for people that back up to the lot where Target is going in. They got a discount on their house because of it. Several times when we were looking at houses I would see a house with a great price advertised and when you got there it backed up to a commercially zoned field. I didn't buy those houses. This is a clear case of caveat emptor for those homeowners.
Target is a big improvement over the car lots that they didn't fight. Have the developer put in a good privacy wall and direct the lights away from the subdivision and be done. The developer has a right to develop his land and this development conforms to the expected land use for this lot. It is in fact a better use than most of what is around it.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
mostly theft. who cares what they are, crime is crime. Crime that wasn't there before.
That's got to be one of the stupider things I've seen you say on this forum, and I've been lurking for quite some time.
Shoplifting is really as much of a problem as sexual assaults, burglary, and whatever other crime is already going on in your neighborhood. (I haven't looked this year)
Somehow I expect that the sales tax brought in by a Target will more than pay for the police response to any minor crime that crops up. I seriously doubt that your neighborhood is doing the same. Not that I have a problem with that. A Target (super or otherwise) will bring in lots of sales tax that might otherwise go out of town, or congest the already far more congested than Memorial between 91st and 101st area around the Target on 71st.
Oh, and perhaps you should tell your neighbor who has the signs that "Supercenter" is a Wal-Mart. They probably wouldn't like the appropriation of their trademark to oppose a Target. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
We drove by Ridge Pointe on our way home last night and saw a fire truck going in...My husband said "Homes are being torched in protest!" LOL
no, that was my next door neighbor dying.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
no, that was my next door neighbor dying.
That's a shame. Guess they won't be protesting Target anymore eh?
quote:
Originally posted by TeeDub
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
no, that was my next door neighbor dying.
That's a shame. Guess they won't be protesting Target anymore eh?
i'll be sure and let them know of your completely insensitive comment.
All of you "progress at any cost" ****ers can sit there and take your smug high road. Don't expect any of us to come to your defense when your property rights are run over in the future.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
i'll be sure and let them know of your completely insensitive comment.
All of you "progress at any cost" ****ers can sit there and take your smug high road. Don't expect any of us to come to your defense when your property rights are run over in the future.
I love how people move into houses which back up onto a beautiful empty field... And then ***** when someone wants to build something on it.
I have an idea for you... Why doesn't your home owner's association offer the landowner to BUY the field? I bet that if you top Target's offer, he will sell it to you. Until then, your protesting the Target is doing nothing but depriving the landowner of HIS property rights.
quote:
Originally posted by TeeDub
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
i'll be sure and let them know of your completely insensitive comment.
All of you "progress at any cost" ****ers can sit there and take your smug high road. Don't expect any of us to come to your defense when your property rights are run over in the future.
I love how people move into houses which back up onto a beautiful empty field... And then ***** when someone wants to build something on it.
I have an idea for you... Why doesn't your home owner's association offer the landowner to BUY the field? I bet that if you top Target's offer, he will sell it to you. Until then, your protesting the Target is doing nothing but depriving the landowner of HIS property rights.
save your ideas and just stick to making insensitive comments about dead elderly people. It allows you to show your true form.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
200 of those crimes were at the Target address itself. Try again.
That statistic is actually useful. Got any breakdown on what they were?
mostly theft. who cares what they are, crime is crime. Crime that wasn't there before.
like the other person said..probably THE STUPIDEST comment I have ever read on these forums. Somehow I don't see the correlation between someone walking out of the store with let's say a dvd and someone because sexually assaulted or carjacked at knife/gun point. I can tell you of the 200 times the cops were called to that target, 4 of them were for stolen cars from Hertz that the people who stole them just happened to be meeting people in the parking lot. No crime was actually committed but rather a meeting place for them.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
save your ideas and just stick to making insensitive comments about dead elderly people. It allows you to show your true form.
So you don't think that you ought to buy property whose development you'd like to control?
I know a fellow who was having a problem of that nature in Fayetteville (only with the city wanting to build a park in their backyard in the middle of their very quiet neighborhood with very narrow streets). He and his neighbor put their money where their mouth was and bought the land. I'm not going to bother counting them, but I bet there's somewhere over a thousand houses in your subdivision. I'm sure you can come up with the cash.
Sorta like one of our neighbors when I was growing up who bought three lots in the subdivision so that houses didn't get built on the others.
Gang, color me a bit old fashioned, but I'd like to see a good old fashioned Wal-Mart go up there. Tulsa already has a Target store at 71st and 169. The Wal-Marts always seem busy and people who live in that are would like a good place to shop without having to drive all the way to Lewis & 81st or where ever the next closest Wal-Mart store is. They also provide good jobs. I also would like them to make a parking area somewhere around there for people who want to use that Creek Jogging trail. I can never find a place to park so I wind up jogging on the RiverSide trail.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Gang, color me a bit old fashioned, but I'd like to see a good old fashioned Wal-Mart go up there. Tulsa already has a Target store at 71st and 169. The Wal-Marts always seem busy and people who live in that are would like a good place to shop without having to drive all the way to Lewis & 81st or where ever the next closest Wal-Mart store is. They also provide good jobs. I also would like them to make a parking area somewhere around there for people who want to use that Creek Jogging trail. I can never find a place to park so I wind up jogging on the RiverSide trail.
The "closest" Wal-Mart is a brand new Supercenter less than a mile away on the other side of the exact same street at 111th and Memorial.
Good jobs????
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Gang, color me a bit old fashioned, but I'd like to see a good old fashioned Wal-Mart go up there. Tulsa already has a Target store at 71st and 169. The Wal-Marts always seem busy and people who live in that are would like a good place to shop without having to drive all the way to Lewis & 81st or where ever the next closest Wal-Mart store is. They also provide good jobs. I also would like them to make a parking area somewhere around there for people who want to use that Creek Jogging trail. I can never find a place to park so I wind up jogging on the RiverSide trail.
The "closest" Wal-Mart is a brand new Supercenter less than a mile away on the other side of the exact same street at 111th and Memorial.
Good jobs????
My thoughts exactly. I have never heard the words "good jobs and Wal Mart" in the same sentence until now. From what I have read they offer subpar benefits and don't treat their employees very well. Not to mention there are two supercenters (3 miles north and 1 mile south) of the location you are referring to and a neighborhood market 3 miles away at 81st and Sheridan. I personally think thats plenty of walmart's for those people.
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Gang, color me a bit old fashioned, but I'd like to see a good old fashioned Wal-Mart go up there. Tulsa already has a Target store at 71st and 169. The Wal-Marts always seem busy and people who live in that are would like a good place to shop without having to drive all the way to Lewis & 81st or where ever the next closest Wal-Mart store is. They also provide good jobs. I also would like them to make a parking area somewhere around there for people who want to use that Creek Jogging trail. I can never find a place to park so I wind up jogging on the RiverSide trail.
The "closest" Wal-Mart is a brand new Supercenter less than a mile away on the other side of the exact same street at 111th and Memorial.
Good jobs????
My thoughts exactly. I have never heard the words "good jobs and Wal Mart" in the same sentence until now. From what I have read they offer subpar benefits and don't treat their employees very well. Not to mention there are two supercenters (3 miles north and 1 mile south) of the location you are referring to and a neighborhood market 3 miles away at 81st and Sheridan. I personally think thats plenty of walmart's for those people.
+1
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Gang, color me a bit old fashioned, but I'd like to see a good old fashioned Wal-Mart go up there. Tulsa already has a Target store at 71st and 169. The Wal-Marts always seem busy and people who live in that are would like a good place to shop without having to drive all the way to Lewis & 81st or where ever the next closest Wal-Mart store is. They also provide good jobs. I also would like them to make a parking area somewhere around there for people who want to use that Creek Jogging trail. I can never find a place to park so I wind up jogging on the RiverSide trail.
The "closest" Wal-Mart is a brand new Supercenter less than a mile away on the other side of the exact same street at 111th and Memorial.
Good jobs????
OK I did not know that. I thought the Wal-Mart store on Memorial street closed up. That's great then. I did not know of a store on 111st. I seldom go that far south in Tulsa.[}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Gang, color me a bit old fashioned, but I'd like to see a good old fashioned Wal-Mart go up there. Tulsa already has a Target store at 71st and 169. The Wal-Marts always seem busy and people who live in that are would like a good place to shop without having to drive all the way to Lewis & 81st or where ever the next closest Wal-Mart store is. They also provide good jobs. I also would like them to make a parking area somewhere around there for people who want to use that Creek Jogging trail. I can never find a place to park so I wind up jogging on the RiverSide trail.
The "closest" Wal-Mart is a brand new Supercenter less than a mile away on the other side of the exact same street at 111th and Memorial.
Good jobs????
My thoughts exactly. I have never heard the words "good jobs and Wal Mart" in the same sentence until now. From what I have read they offer subpar benefits and don't treat their employees very well. Not to mention there are two supercenters (3 miles north and 1 mile south) of the location you are referring to and a neighborhood market 3 miles away at 81st and Sheridan. I personally think thats plenty of walmart's for those people.
Wal-Mart Jobs are good jobs. They pay more and have better benefits than the other stores do. I worked at a Target Warehouse return center in Indianapolois and they treat ya like dirt. The turn over rate is sky high. The workers also must pass thru a metal detector entering and leaving the plant. The pay is the Pitts. We had a 15 minute break that was cut to 10 minutes, they have no "parties" at Christmas or Thanksgiving like many other companies have. I worked there as a temp worker and was discharged because I turned down a perm job offer after my 90 days. I did not enjoy my time working there.. I was an scanner for "M&M" (Movies & Music". The quotas are high we had to scan over 567 pcs per hour.. They can't keep workers, hardly anyone has senority over 1 year. I know bad jobs..[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Gang, color me a bit old fashioned, but I'd like to see a good old fashioned Wal-Mart go up there. Tulsa already has a Target store at 71st and 169. The Wal-Marts always seem busy and people who live in that are would like a good place to shop without having to drive all the way to Lewis & 81st or where ever the next closest Wal-Mart store is. They also provide good jobs. I also would like them to make a parking area somewhere around there for people who want to use that Creek Jogging trail. I can never find a place to park so I wind up jogging on the RiverSide trail.
The "closest" Wal-Mart is a brand new Supercenter less than a mile away on the other side of the exact same street at 111th and Memorial.
Good jobs????
OK I did not know that. I thought the Wal-Mart store on Memorial street closed up. That's great then. I did not know of a store on 111st. I seldom go that far south in Tulsa.[}:)]
Memorial Drive in Tulsa has the nasty distinction of having three Wal-Mart Supercenters located on it. 121st Street will also soon have three Supercenters with new store that is about to open in Glenpool (the others are in Sapulpa and Broken Arrow). Tulsa now has plenty of Wal-Marts, thank you. A single street with three of those ugly monsters on it is shocking, and the Tulsa area does it twice.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
OK I did not know that. I thought the Wal-Mart store on Memorial street closed up. That's great then. I did not know of a store on 111st. I seldom go that far south in Tulsa.[}:)]
91st&Mem WM --> 111th&Mem WM Supercenter
43rd&Mem WM --> 71st&Mem WM Supercenter
I'm a firm believer that no city can have too many Wal-Marts. No matter how many stores a city has, the stores are all busy and choked with people. We have 2 Wal-Mart stores about 3 miles apart both are busy at all hours of the day & night. At Christmas time the parking lots of both stores were full to the brim.[:)]
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
I'm a firm believer that no city can have too many Wal-Marts. No matter how many stores a city has, the stores are all busy and choked with people. We have 2 Wal-Mart stores about 3 miles apart both are busy at all hours of the day & night. At Christmas time the parking lots of both stores were full to the brim.[:)]
Yeah, at Christmas time. The rest of the year it is just a half empty sea of asphault.
"I'm very unlikely to vote with these residential folks in this thing," McArtor is heard saying. "I've looked at this thing and think it's a great idea...."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080219_1_A8_hHesa84687
Sounds like someone's made up his mind.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
"I'm very unlikely to vote with these residential folks in this thing," McArtor is heard saying. "I've looked at this thing and think it's a great idea...."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080219_1_A8_hHesa84687
Sounds like someone's made up his mind.
Bill Christiansen sent him a letter to recuse himself from voting. And with comments like that you have to wonder if the board vote hasn't been tainted and it should just be forwarded on to the council.
It is no wonder that neighborhoods don't trust INCOG and TMAPC with crap like this going on.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Gang, color me a bit old fashioned, but I'd like to see a good old fashioned Wal-Mart go up there. Tulsa already has a Target store at 71st and 169. The Wal-Marts always seem busy and people who live in that are would like a good place to shop without having to drive all the way to Lewis & 81st or where ever the next closest Wal-Mart store is. They also provide good jobs. I also would like them to make a parking area somewhere around there for people who want to use that Creek Jogging trail. I can never find a place to park so I wind up jogging on the RiverSide trail.
The "closest" Wal-Mart is a brand new Supercenter less than a mile away on the other side of the exact same street at 111th and Memorial.
Good jobs????
OK I did not know that. I thought the Wal-Mart store on Memorial street closed up. That's great then. I did not know of a store on 111st. I seldom go that far south in Tulsa.[}:)]
They closed the one at Memorial and the Railroad tracks when they opened the new one down on the back side of Woodland Hills Mall.
I was in the area yesterday and I drove the street that will divide the Target center from the neighborhood and at the end of the Target lot (which is huge by the way) is a construction site for a massive new, and massively well lit, parking lot that I guess is going to be used by one of the area car lots. This lot is actually on the same side of the street as the neighborhood. It's going to be a lot more impactful, at the very least from a lighting perspective, than a Target store.
Did the neighborhood fight this lot? If not, why not?
quote:
Originally posted by swake
It's going to be a lot more impactful, at the very least from a lighting perspective, than a Target store.
That's so people buying cars at 3am can shop like it's noon.
Of course, the electric bill just gets tacked onto the car sticker, so no one cares except the people who live nearby who will never know another good night's sleep.
There
are communities who dont allow this, BTW.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by swake
It's going to be a lot more impactful, at the very least from a lighting perspective, than a Target store.
That's so people buying cars at 3am can shop like it's noon.
Of course, the electric bill just gets tacked onto the car sticker, so no one cares except the people who live nearby who will never know another good night's sleep.
There are communities who dont allow this, BTW.
i'm not sure I follow here, probably because I ignore Wakeford^3. If you are trying to say the car lots generate more light in the neighborhood that is false because they only light the front lots 24/7.
I love when citizen's try to tell people what they can or can not build on the property they rightfully own. Channel 6's website has an article and one of the complaint's is that "the area couldn't handle all that traffic" yet it goes on to say once upon of time these same resident's were calling it "Utica Square South". So Utica Square doesn't do much business? What a lousy excuse IMO. If you don't like what the developer/builder wants to put there, buy the property yourself. It's ridiculous to think that there is all this commercial property around you (ie the car dealerships, movie theater, grocery store, fast food restaurants) but yet they will just leave that corner undeveloped. You homeowners should have thought about this before you moved there.
"Planning Commission OK's shopping center at 101st and Memorial"
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080220_1__TheTu41863
Do I see an unplanned resignation in my crystal ball?
quote:
Originally posted by patric
"Planning Commission OK's shopping center at 101st and Memorial"
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080220_1__TheTu41863
Do I see an unplanned resignation in my crystal ball?
McArtor?
80' setback is nice. Beats the housing developer's 80" setback.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
"Planning Commission OK's shopping center at 101st and Memorial"
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080220_1__TheTu41863
Do I see an unplanned resignation in my crystal ball?
no, but you see an obvious appeal of the decision.
and anyone who is interested in doing some fun fact checking will discover that the developer LIED when he said there was money in 4 to fix for 101st/memorial. There is NO funding identified OR allocated to widen 101st. Combine that with the other LIE that target wont buy/build on the property unless 101st is widened and you have a class A weasel.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
and anyone who is interested in doing some fun fact checking will discover that the developer LIED when he said there was money in 4 to fix for 101st/memorial. There is NO funding identified OR allocated to widen 101st.
Correct. Reference:
http://www.4tofix.info/propositions.php?pid=4
Although there is money for 101st & Yale and 101st & Garnett so if he just said "101st" he could be technically correct.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
and anyone who is interested in doing some fun fact checking will discover that the developer LIED when he said there was money in 4 to fix for 101st/memorial. There is NO funding identified OR allocated to widen 101st.
Correct. Reference:
http://www.4tofix.info/propositions.php?pid=4
Although there is money for 101st & Yale and 101st & Garnett so if he just said "101st" he could be technically correct.
he said 101st, between memorial and 84th. so he is a liar.
and so that brings up the next question. lets say they greedily go after 4 to fix money.
How will residents feel that voted for that if they shift money from one project, to this one? I think you'll see some people getting voted out of office.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
and anyone who is interested in doing some fun fact checking will discover that the developer LIED when he said there was money in 4 to fix for 101st/memorial. There is NO funding identified OR allocated to widen 101st.
Correct. Reference:
http://www.4tofix.info/propositions.php?pid=4
Although there is money for 101st & Yale and 101st & Garnett so if he just said "101st" he could be technically correct.
he said 101st, between memorial and 84th. so he is a liar.
Yup.
And to verify he's not just partially wrong, I also checked incog, and CoT and nobody has any money allocated for it.
Incog has it on their wish list, but they have about every road on that same list.
Another reference:
http://www.incog.org/transportation/congestionandtraffic/2007CMP.pdf
Check page 24, specifically states no funding identified.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
and anyone who is interested in doing some fun fact checking will discover that the developer LIED when he said there was money in 4 to fix for 101st/memorial. There is NO funding identified OR allocated to widen 101st.
Correct. Reference:
http://www.4tofix.info/propositions.php?pid=4
Although there is money for 101st & Yale and 101st & Garnett so if he just said "101st" he could be technically correct.
he said 101st, between memorial and 84th. so he is a liar.
Yup.
And to verify he's not just partially wrong, I also checked incog, and CoT and nobody has any money allocated for it.
Incog has it on their wish list, but they have about every road on that same list.
well, if any of you were counting on one of those 4 to fix projects I would suggest contacting your county commissioner and tell them not to let lying scumbags try to subvert public will and reallocate money for VOTED ON projects.
If the Target does go in at 101st they will have this family for sure as customers. We like shopping there because of its classiness.
WalMart so many times looks like a rummage sale is underway.
quote:
Originally posted by citizen72
If the Target does go in at 101st they will have this family for sure as customers. We like shopping there because of its classiness.
WalMart so many times looks like a rummage sale is underway.
you've obviously never been to the one at 111th.
oh, and the country disagrees with you:
Analyst: Consumers prefer Wal-Mart to Target
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23277251/
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by citizen72
If the Target does go in at 101st they will have this family for sure as customers. We like shopping there because of its classiness.
WalMart so many times looks like a rummage sale is underway.
you've obviously never been to the one at 111th.
oh, and the country disagrees with you:
Analyst: Consumers prefer Wal-Mart to Target
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23277251/
Inteller, you say you do not work for Walmart, then you must be a member of the Walton Family to know sooooooooooo much about that corporation and have stuff like this at your fingertips so quickly.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by citizen72
If the Target does go in at 101st they will have this family for sure as customers. We like shopping there because of its classiness.
WalMart so many times looks like a rummage sale is underway.
you've obviously never been to the one at 111th.
oh, and the country disagrees with you:
Analyst: Consumers prefer Wal-Mart to Target
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23277251/
I think the real problems is that US Americans, um, don't have maps.
Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by citizen72
If the Target does go in at 101st they will have this family for sure as customers. We like shopping there because of its classiness.
WalMart so many times looks like a rummage sale is underway.
you've obviously never been to the one at 111th.
oh, and the country disagrees with you:
Analyst: Consumers prefer Wal-Mart to Target
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23277251/
I appreciate and respect the opinions of others but we can't really be concerned about that. We just like what we like and we like Target. One thing is that we have found they (Target) have softened a little on their grocery prices which is nice.
As far as the Walmart at 111th we are no stranger to that store. Your point in reference to that location??
quote:
Originally posted by citizen72
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by citizen72
If the Target does go in at 101st they will have this family for sure as customers. We like shopping there because of its classiness.
WalMart so many times looks like a rummage sale is underway.
you've obviously never been to the one at 111th.
oh, and the country disagrees with you:
Analyst: Consumers prefer Wal-Mart to Target
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23277251/
I appreciate and respect the opinions of others but we can't really be concerned about that. We just like what we like and we like Target. One thing is that we have found they (Target) have softened a little on their grocery prices which is nice.
As far as the Walmart at 111th we are no stranger to that store. Your point in reference to that location??
my point is they don't conduct "rummage sales" that you misconstrue.
an appeal to the target will be filed within the next 10 days. if they wouldn't have made several lies about 101st being widened there probably would not have been an appeal. but the TMAPC was falsely influenced by those lies.
Now that this is all but a done deal I wonder what will go in at the 121st & Memorial location where the Super Target was originally rumored to be located?
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Now that this is all but a done deal I wonder what will go in at the 121st & Memorial location where the Super Target was originally rumored to be located?
you are right it is all BUT a done deal. It is getting appealed....and unlike TMAPC, the city council isn't made up of a bunch of developers and related people.
another another factor that has nothing to do with Tulsa....Target is coming out with results next week and they are saying they will be weak. If they are weak then target may pull back expansion plans and this might not happen at all. If that happens I'm gonna go down to the site and pour a forty for bumgarner and his dead project.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Now that this is all but a done deal I wonder what will go in at the 121st & Memorial location where the Super Target was originally rumored to be located?
you are right it is all BUT a done deal. It is getting appealed....and unlike TMAPC, the city council isn't made up of a bunch of developers and related people.
another another factor that has nothing to do with Tulsa....Target is coming out with results next week and they are saying they will be weak. If they are weak then target may pull back expansion plans and this might not happen at all. If that happens I'm gonna go down to the site and pour a forty for bumgarner and his dead project.
Don't get too excited....SOMETHING will be built there. Too prime a spot not to have something big on it.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Now that this is all but a done deal I wonder what will go in at the 121st & Memorial location where the Super Target was originally rumored to be located?
you are right it is all BUT a done deal. It is getting appealed....and unlike TMAPC, the city council isn't made up of a bunch of developers and related people.
another another factor that has nothing to do with Tulsa....Target is coming out with results next week and they are saying they will be weak. If they are weak then target may pull back expansion plans and this might not happen at all. If that happens I'm gonna go down to the site and pour a forty for bumgarner and his dead project.
Don't get too excited....SOMETHING will be built there. Too prime a spot not to have something big on it.
I fully expect and want something SENSIBLE to be built there.
Looks like Target is feeling success.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectID=32&articleID=20081015_32_E2_Alongp184715
A long-proposed Target store on the northeast corner of 101st Street and Memorial Drive has taken a big step closer to reality with the retailer purchasing nine acres at the site for $5.4 million.
Jessica Hauser, a spokeswoman for Minneapolis-based Target Corp., confirmed Tuesday that the company had purchased land on the undeveloped corner but said plans for a store have not been completed.
"We'd like to build there, and we'll be working with the city and county over the next few months to work toward that goal," she said.
Target's site would be part of South Town Market, a 21-acre retail development planned by John Bumgarner. The discount store chain acquired the land, located in Tulsa just north of Bixby, through his company, 1995 Land Co.
The latest site plan indicates that the key retail anchor, located at the site of Target's purchase, would use approximately 186,000 square feet.
South Town Market also includes 48,000 square feet of retail space to be constructed by Bumgarner to the north and south of the proposed Target, along with three 6,000-square-foot outparcel buildings and one 3,500-square-foot outparcel.
Bumgarner said he is not sure when construction would begin, though he's actively seeking bids from contractors.
Hauser didn't say why Target sought out the particular location, though she said the retailer generally seeks places with high visibility and easy access.
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
Looks like Target is feeling success.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectID=32&articleID=20081015_32_E2_Alongp184715
A long-proposed Target store on the northeast corner of 101st Street and Memorial Drive has taken a big step closer to reality with the retailer purchasing nine acres at the site for $5.4 million.
Jessica Hauser, a spokeswoman for Minneapolis-based Target Corp., confirmed Tuesday that the company had purchased land on the undeveloped corner but said plans for a store have not been completed.
"We'd like to build there, and we'll be working with the city and county over the next few months to work toward that goal," she said.
Target's site would be part of South Town Market, a 21-acre retail development planned by John Bumgarner. The discount store chain acquired the land, located in Tulsa just north of Bixby, through his company, 1995 Land Co.
The latest site plan indicates that the key retail anchor, located at the site of Target's purchase, would use approximately 186,000 square feet.
South Town Market also includes 48,000 square feet of retail space to be constructed by Bumgarner to the north and south of the proposed Target, along with three 6,000-square-foot outparcel buildings and one 3,500-square-foot outparcel.
Bumgarner said he is not sure when construction would begin, though he's actively seeking bids from contractors.
Hauser didn't say why Target sought out the particular location, though she said the retailer generally seeks places with high visibility and easy access.
I wonder if they would be willing to do something more upscale than the typical Target? Or make it multi-level? It would be great even if it were just two levels.
Notice the developer name? I bet this will have a terra cotta roof.
Just what I always wanted. Another big box store and more traffic on Memorial.
Yuck!
Where's inteller?!?!? Someone page him, his pet project is alive again..
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Where's inteller?!?!? Someone page him, his pet project is alive again..
I read an article this morning on Channel 8 about this, and I instantly came on here looking for intellers comments. I am disappointed.
He probably keeled over with a heart attack.
Heart attack
Head exploding
massive evac of the bowels
I figured that too. I'm very bummed Inteller is MIA.
He probably choked on his Wal-Mart brand Cheesecake Danish.
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
Just what I always wanted. Another big box store and more traffic on Memorial.
Yuck!
I doubt it will actually increase traffic on memorial north of 101st much. Most of the people shopping at this location would probably either already be passing by, or coming from surrounding neighborhoods.
It might be something of a draw from Bixby, but even then, the folks who would shop at this Target over the Wal-Mart at 111th would have been driving up Memorial to get on 169 to go to the Target at 71st anyway. (or driving to the grocery store already at 101st & memorial)
All that land is filling in whether we like it or not. I can only hope the folks in inteller's neighborhood can at least get the city to make the developers install lighting that stays on the property. There's enough excess light in the area from the car dealers. :p
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
Just what I always wanted. Another big box store and more traffic on Memorial.
Yuck!
I doubt it will actually increase traffic on memorial north of 101st much. Most of the people shopping at this location would probably either already be passing by, or coming from surrounding neighborhoods.
It might be something of a draw from Bixby, but even then, the folks who would shop at this Target over the Wal-Mart at 111th would have been driving up Memorial to get on 169 to go to the Target at 71st anyway. (or driving to the grocery store already at 101st & memorial)
All that land is filling in whether we like it or not. I can only hope the folks in inteller's neighborhood can at least get the city to make the developers install lighting that stays on the property. There's enough excess light in the area from the car dealers. :p
I expect it will attract people from north of 101st wanting to avoid going to 71st to the Super Target there. When WalMart moved from 91st to 111th, the traffic jam only moved 2 miles farther south. Traffic between 111th and 101st has been horrible even during off rush hour traffic, especially on the weekends when the amateur drivers are out in force. The quantity of cars wouldn't be too awful but the really clueless drivers make it intolerable. Regal Plaza (or whatever it is called) isn't going to help. 101st & Memorial will need to have improvements to the turning lanes to lessen the nightmare.
I know the strip shopping areas are unpopular on this forum but at least they didn't generate so much traffic.
I have to agree about the lighting. I used to be able to see some stars at night to the north. It hard to see much of anything to the north less than 45° of elevation anymore.
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
Traffic between 111th and 101st has been horrible even during off rush hour traffic, especially on the weekends when the amateur drivers are out in force. The quantity of cars wouldn't be too awful but the really clueless drivers make it intolerable.
...
101st & Memorial will need to have improvements to the turning lanes to lessen the nightmare.
I hear you on the clueless drivers. There's no need to drive 40 in a 50, but half of the folks driving between 101st and 111th do it.
Turning lane improvements will definitely be needed on WB 101st and the left turn lane on SB Memorial could probably use lengthening. It wouldn't be nearly as big a problem if people in this town could handle U-turns.
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
[I hear you on the clueless drivers. There's no need to drive 40 in a 50, but half of the folks driving between 101st and 111th do it.
And they do it side by side with no one in front of them.
This conversation makes one appreciate midtown all the more. Too bad there is no good way to add half mile streets in that entire area. That one design change could have helped a lot.
The 71st Target is going to lose lots of business when the Broken Arrow Target opens and this new one opens.
quote:
Originally posted by Composer
The 71st Target is going to lose lots of business when the Broken Arrow Target opens and this new one opens.
The Broken Arrow Target is a conventional Target, 71st is a Super Target. It may lose some to the 101st store but it will be 2009 or 2010 until that happens.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
This conversation makes one appreciate midtown all the more. Too bad there is no good way to add half mile streets in that entire area. That one design change could have helped a lot.
Traffic gets stupid in midtown, too. It seems better, though, as you don't have to drive as far to get to your destination, generally.
I do not think many people are driving to Target from Broken Arrow for groceries. They go for the general merchandise because they do not want to go to Wal-Mart. Those people who live closer to the new BA Target will shop at the new Target.
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
This conversation makes one appreciate midtown all the more. Too bad there is no good way to add half mile streets in that entire area. That one design change could have helped a lot.
Traffic gets stupid in midtown, too.
Amen to that...51/Yale, 31/Harvard & the BA, etc.