Been dealing with them on a lot split September and it seems like it is never going to end.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Been dealing with them on a lot split September and it seems like it is never going to end.
well when I was in there earlier all I could hear was them in a back office gabbing that there was nothing to do in Oklahoma. sounded like a change of scenery was needed to me. Maybe they can hop on the forum here and answer your question since they have nothing to do.[}:)]
They've sucked for years.....
One day when I was in there the talk of the office was white chocolate hot chocolate. I can't tell you how long I heard them talking about that while I was sitting in one of the seats waiting to talk to someone. It was at least 20 minutes.
The someone I needed to talk to was of course deeply involved in the white chocolate hot chocolate conversation with the receptionist. Everyone who walked by got sucked into the vortex of white chocolaty goodness while several of us waited to be helped. It was pathetic.
That coupled with the fact that the staff there seems to take more vacation than even Johnny Carson did back in his heyday.
No one there has anything to fear. They have the ultimate job security, little or no supervision, and no goals, mission or objective related to performance.
Of course you are going to wait!
It's the perfect bureaucratic vacuum.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
It's the perfect bureaucratic vacuum.
so what can be done to overhaul it?
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
It's the perfect bureaucratic vacuum.
so what can be done to overhaul it?
Same thing you do when a fungus infects a forest.
Clear cut, burn, re-seed.
Start yelling at people Reeeeeeeeeeeeally loud and keep at, keep at it, keep at it, it until you see some movement. Usually gets things going for me.
I have called twice, once in the morning and once in the afternoon, every business day since December 18th and left a message for the person I have been working with to call me.
They have not.
what is INCOG?
I "knowish" two people there. PM me the details and let me see if I can do something to help out Wavoka. I'm not promising anything other than I might be able to get someone's attention.
Next time you go, stop in on the first floor and see me at the M.e.t.
I will go up with you and see if I can help as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I "knowish" two people there. PM me the details and let me see if I can do something to help out Wavoka. I'm not promising anything other than I might be able to get someone's attention.
well the problem is you shouldn't have to pull strings. a public service should strive to treat everyone equally. I have a feeling if you walk in there looking like a developer you will get better treatment.
when I was in there I definitely got the feeling I was bothering them from doing whatever it is they do. They should do more to project a welcoming atmosphere to the public.
A few of the ladies down at INCOG are genuinely helpful, but they aren't the ones that do the big jobs, they usually just deal with setback information, etc.. I get the same treatment when I deal with them on variances, which is usually about once a year. I was laughing pretty hard at the white chocolate debate described earlier in the thread, because that sounds exactly like the kind of thing I've heard there. Reminds me of something you'd see on "The Office".
The same can be said for the building permit office. Combine AOL instant messenger with people who care only about when their donut break is, and you're gonna get some slugs.
I went with a friend once to pick up an accident report at the downtown police station. The lady at the desk literally did not even look at us as we stood there, she put her finger up in a "one moment" signal, and finished reading her Perez Hilton article online while we watched. I've never seen anything like it.
The question is, who are these people accountable to? Who do you have to file a complaint with to see change?
quote:
Originally posted by dggriffi
what is INCOG?
Indian Nation Council of Governments. They are an association of all the city and county governments in the Tulsa metro area. They keep track of most zoning issues. If you want a zoning change, a lot split, a variance to go over a setback, etc, you have to go through them and the TMAPC (Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Committee). It will cost several hundred dollars and take you at least two months generally just to get before the board, and even then they may not approve what you want to do.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I "knowish" two people there. PM me the details and let me see if I can do something to help out Wavoka. I'm not promising anything other than I might be able to get someone's attention.
well the problem is you shouldn't have to pull strings. a public service should strive to treat everyone equally. I have a feeling if you walk in there looking like a developer you will get better treatment.
when I was in there I definitely got the feeling I was bothering them from doing whatever it is they do. They should do more to project a welcoming atmosphere to the public.
You are right you shouldn't have to but that's the way government at all levels works. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and allow someone who knows how to get other's attention to help out.
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa1603
quote:
Originally posted by dggriffi
what is INCOG?
It will cost several hundred dollars and take you at least two months generally just to get before the board, and even then they may not approve what you want to do.
well that's not necessarily true. The development I'm getting ready to protest seems to be on some kind of fast track.
quote:
Originally posted by spoonbill
No one there has anything to fear. They have...no goals, mission or objective related to performance...
They did have a mission in my case, and that was to down-zone my property
against my wishes from a maximum allowable density of 29.25 dwelling units per acre to a maximum allowable density of 2.66 dwelling units per acre. It diverted their attention away from the white chocolate hot chocolate issue for awhile, but after some twisting of "facts" and some lying to the TMAPC and to the City Council, their extremely important mission was accomplished.
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
quote:
Originally posted by spoonbill
No one there has anything to fear. They have...no goals, mission or objective related to performance...
They did have a mission in my case, and that was to down-zone my property against my wishes from a maximum allowable density of 29.25 dwelling units per acre to a maximum allowable density of 2.66 dwelling units per acre. It diverted their attention away from the white chocolate hot chocolate issue for awhile, but after some twisting of "facts" and some lying to the TMAPC and to the City Council, their extremely important mission was accomplished.
oh tell us more. what did they lie about?
Finally! Everything with INCOG is finished.
What a long strange trip it's been.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
quote:
Originally posted by spoonbill
No one there has anything to fear. They have...no goals, mission or objective related to performance...
They did have a mission in my case, and that was to down-zone my property against my wishes from a maximum allowable density of 29.25 dwelling units per acre to a maximum allowable density of 2.66 dwelling units per acre. It diverted their attention away from the white chocolate hot chocolate issue for awhile, but after some twisting of "facts" and some lying to the TMAPC and to the City Council, their extremely important mission was accomplished.
oh tell us more. what did they lie about?
1. A TMAPC "planner" told the City Council that in order to develop my property to its maximum potential, I would have to construct a five-story structure which included structured parking. The was a calculated lie.
2. Another TMAPC "planner" told the TMAPC that the development potential of my property was less than it truly was. I think this was an unintentional miscalculation, but when I told the "planner" that I was stumped by his numbers, he told me that he presumed a certain lot size and street widths instead of actually looking at a map to see what the actual lot size and street widths were. He admitted his error, but I was not allowed to rebut (which was unfair because the TMAPC had relied on his miscalculation).
3. The TMAPC was using a blanket zoning study done around 1990 in order to influence the City Council to down-zone and spot zone my neighborhood. It took quite a bit of effort on my part before a TMAPC "planner" deigned to let me see a copy of that blanket zoning study. Once I finally got to look at the study report and had the opportunity to pay yet another person at INCOG to photocopy the pages I wanted (for 25 cents each, I think), then I was able to see that the study was clearly flawed. It mis-characterized the proportion of single- to non-single-family residences in my neighborhood. Not only had I lived in the neighborhood in 1990, but it was also fairly easy to prove that the study was flawed by an examination of city directories, by the number of mailboxes and electric meters on so-called single-family structures, etc.
and which planner was this?
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
One day when I was in there the talk of the office was white chocolate hot chocolate. I can't tell you how long I heard them talking about that while I was sitting in one of the seats waiting to talk to someone. It was at least 20 minutes.
The someone I needed to talk to was of course deeply involved in the white chocolate hot chocolate conversation with the receptionist. Everyone who walked by got sucked into the vortex of white chocolaty goodness while several of us waited to be helped. It was pathetic.
That coupled with the fact that the staff there seems to take more vacation than even Johnny Carson did back in his heyday.
Hey...don't be dissin' the white chocolate, buddy.
Mmmmmmm...... [:P]
Now THAT is funny.
You want to really do something about it? Don't write to your politicians or whomever, call up the local tv station and complain to the news crew that goes about getting things done by exposing them on television. THAT will get their attention better than anything.