Why are people in the Tulsa Metro Area so conservative? In all areas, politically, socially, philosophically, etc. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I don't mean to make blanket generalizations, but in the months I have been reading this forum and the comment section of the Tulsa World, there is no question in my mind that, as a whole, people here are extremely conservative.
Additionally, I am curious as to why so many conservative people engage in personal attacks on other posters (whether it be in the form of snide, condescending remarks, or outright attacks)? I know liberal posters have done the same, but it seems much more common coming from posters who seem right of center.
I am sincere about these questions and am not judging or assigning a moral qualitative value to any one particular point of view. So, please, please do not give me the stock answer of "If you don't like it here, why don't you leave?"
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt
Why are people in the Tulsa Metro Area so conservative? In all areas, politically, socially, philosophically, etc. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I don't mean to make blanket generalizations, but in the months I have been reading this forum and the comment section of the Tulsa World, there is no question in my mind that, as a whole, people here are extremely conservative.
Additionally, I am curious as to why so many conservative people engage in personal attacks on other posters (whether it be in the form of snide, condescending remarks, or outright attacks)? I know liberal posters have done the same, but it seems much more common coming from posters who seem right of center.
I am sincere about these questions and am not judging or assigning a moral qualitative value to any one particular point of view. So, please, please do not give me the stock answer of "If you don't like it here, why don't you leave?"
compared to the rest of Oklahoma Tulsa is a liberal bastion.
Your equations for liberal urban areas do not apply here because Tulsa is not like other cities around the US. Namely, we have our ghettos (typically liberal) firmly defined and controlled better.
Personally, I wouldnt use the TW comments as any kind of benchmark. However, if you insist, i think your your question should read,
'Why are Tulsans so hateful & ignorant?'
Its a known ploy of mental midgets to employ attempted character assassination as a way to 'frame' an argument.
another tactic commonly used is to try & narrow a complex issue (such as immigration, war on terror, torture, domestic surveillance or the drug war) down to a black / white issue, (youre either fer it or agin it) and if you happen to fall in the opposite camp, the first tactic is then employed.
I wouldn't call it being conservative, I would call it being right (as in correct)!
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I wouldn't call it being conservative, I would call it being right (as in correct)!
That pretty much summed it up right there.
Fantasy thinking combined with imagined certainty. A general lack of critical thinking skills. I wouldnt say its either conservative or liberal thing, it just happens that more people are conservative here.
I think tulsa is socially liberal and fiscally conservative. It's the perfect place to live and raise a family, start a business, or retire and not worry about mad fluctuations in the economy.
I like Tulsa, just wanna kiss it!
[;)]
Why shouldn't Tulsans be conservative? Does every city have to be liberal? Every rural area conservative? My guess is that Tulsa doesn't have that much to offer liberals, so it stays fairly conservative. There's no reason why conservatives can't have a city or two here and there [:P]. As for the personal attacks, I'd say it goes both ways, but you notice the conservatives more because you feel the attack, while you are basically cheerleading when it goes the other way. Just a hunch.
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt
Why are people in the Tulsa Metro Area so conservative? In all areas, politically, socially, philosophically, etc. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I don't mean to make blanket generalizations, but in the months I have been reading this forum and the comment section of the Tulsa World, there is no question in my mind that, as a whole, people here are extremely conservative.
I very sincerely believe that this area of the country is as conservative as it is because the people who belong to the area sincerely believe someone still might at any moment take their land.
quote:
Originally posted by dayzella
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt
Why are people in the Tulsa Metro Area so conservative? In all areas, politically, socially, philosophically, etc. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I don't mean to make blanket generalizations, but in the months I have been reading this forum and the comment section of the Tulsa World, there is no question in my mind that, as a whole, people here are extremely conservative.
I very sincerely believe that this area of the country is as conservative as it is because the people who belong to the area sincerely believe someone still might at any moment take their land.
+1!
quote:
Originally posted by dayzella
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt
Why are people in the Tulsa Metro Area so conservative? In all areas, politically, socially, philosophically, etc. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I don't mean to make blanket generalizations, but in the months I have been reading this forum and the comment section of the Tulsa World, there is no question in my mind that, as a whole, people here are extremely conservative.
I very sincerely believe that this area of the country is as conservative as it is because the people who belong to the area sincerely believe someone still might at any moment take their land.
Would that be a reference to Eminent Domain?
I often find it to be difficult to talk to people about politics because I meet so many conservative thinkers who are so inflexible in their views that intelligent discourse is impossible. It's not that these people are not intelligent, nor are their conservative views bad or wrong. It's just that they are more "right" than I am and nothing will ever change that.
I also have 1 or 2 friends who are far right of center who I can discuss politics with and feel that we both learn from each other and possibly change points of view from time to time. I wish more people were like that. They realize that if I oppose their viewpoint does not mean I have something against them personally.
I can understand where Mutt is coming from. It's tough to be a critical thinker with an open minded philosophy in this town. It's even tougher when you are not christian, which I am not. Often christian (protestant) means conservative (republican) in this town.
quote:
Originally posted by tulsascoot
I can understand where Mutt is coming from. It's tough to be a critical thinker with an open minded philosophy in this town. It's even tougher when you are not christian, which I am not. Often christian (protestant) means conservative (republican) in this town.
The thing about that is, it appears that the people to whom you are referring (and not at all the ones in this forum; though I may not always agree, I have come to see that their opinions are always well thought out) are often people who repeat what they've heard the likes of Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh or some ultra right- wing religious figure spout off about, and take it as fact. To their minds, the thinking has supposedly been done already, and there is apparently no need to examine it for themselves.
JMO, and from what people in the southwest refer to Oklahoma as "Being under the buckle of the Bible Belt" A lot of people refer to Arizona as a "Conservative" state but in the ten years that I have been here I would say that it is more Moderate. (Probably the influx of people from California)
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt
Why are people in the Tulsa Metro Area so conservative? In all areas, politically, socially, philosophically, etc. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I don't mean to make blanket generalizations, but in the months I have been reading this forum and the comment section of the Tulsa World, there is no question in my mind that, as a whole, people here are extremely conservative.
Additionally, I am curious as to why so many conservative people engage in personal attacks on other posters (whether it be in the form of snide, condescending remarks, or outright attacks)? I know liberal posters have done the same, but it seems much more common coming from posters who seem right of center.
I am sincere about these questions and am not judging or assigning a moral qualitative value to any one particular point of view. So, please, please do not give me the stock answer of "If you don't like it here, why don't you leave?"
I am curious where you live in Tulsa. I find that the further south you live, the more conservative the city. In midtown (real midtown, not 51st & Sheridan midtown), you generally find a mix of liberal and conservative. The further north you go, the more liberal it is. Still, you are correct that Tulsa & Oklahoma is much more conservative than the rest of the nation. I believe it has to do with religion.
Mutt, we are conservative because we are obsessed with and afraid of the big Italian guy with the hot girl friend who eats at Flemings.
No other reason.
My online dictionary defines conservatism as:
1)Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2)Traditional or restrained in style.
3)Moderate; cautious.
I think that helps explain why conservatives tend to argue online. They are generally opposed to change and cautious about other views than their own. They also can be downright stubborn.
Remember the last presidential campaign. Bush made fun of Kerry for changing his mind and said he never would.
I still can't believe the American public voted for closed mindeness over open-mindeness.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
My online dictionary defines conservatism as:
1)Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2)Traditional or restrained in style.
3)Moderate; cautious.
I think that helps explain why conservatives tend to argue online. They are generally opposed to change and cautious about other views than their own. They also can be downright stubborn.
Remember the last presidential campaign. Bush made fun of Kerry for changing his mind and said he never would.
I still can't believe the American public voted for closed mindeness over open-mindeness.
Kerry was a populist, big difference between that and being open-minded. Just like Hillary and Edwards.
"Why are people in the Tulsa Metro Area so conservative?"
Dunno.
Why is the sky blue?
Why is it offensive to be even mildly critical of a Kennedy when living in Massachusetts?
Why are New Yorkers so rude?
Why is Chicago so full of BS? (hint: they don't call it the "Windy City" because of the weather)
Why can't Indiana ever become "a swing state?"
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I think we have a "perfect storm" in national scale poltics that will keep Tulsa (and Oklahoma) in the "Red" column for years to come...
1. The oil industry is still huge here and their people will wholehartedly support a candidate who thinks global warming is a hoax (see Senator Inhofe)... they will also support any politician who promises reduction or elimination of the "windfall profits tax" ... although these same people can be downright libertarian/liberal when it comes to social issues...
2. The aviation industry has traditionally been big here... when I was growing up in Tulsa, some of my family members worked for either Rockwell, McDonnell Douglas or American Airlines... the first two, especially, had employees who were deeply affected by any cuts in military spending and experienced multiple temporary layoffs or lost their jobs completely... lots of these folks could have been counted on as pro-labor Dems once-upon-a-time, but voted as "Reagan Democrats" back in the day because of Reagan's call for a "strong national defense." They still overwhelmingly vote Republican in US senate and presidential elections.
I keep wondering why local pols underestimate this voting bloc... it didn't come as any surprise to me that the very same Tulsans who voted for MASSIVE SALES TAX SUBSIDIES, GOODIES AND CORPORATE WELFARE specifically to woo Boeing in the Vision2025 tax package could turn around and vote against a River Tax that included massive promised private funds last October...
3. The Religious Right. This is the group that our urban/northeast/west coast biased "national media" seems pretty clueless about... and, no mistake about it, Tulsa's firmly part of the bible belt (many consider it "the buckle").
But conservative Southern Baptists don't have alot in common with the speaking-in-tongues' Assembly of God folks who like to look down on the trendy evangelical "superchurches" who in turn disagree and consider themselves "non-denominational" and only rebuke their conservative Christian counterparts "in a spirit of Love." [:D] Then there's the "we're the only ones going to heaven"Church of Christ... ("I could have danced all night... but I was 'Church of Christ'"...) [:P]
What do these people have in common and why do they continue to vote Republican? They want Roe v. Wade overturned. They will never, ever support legalized "gay marriage" per se... yet they have traditionally demanded public "prayer-in-schools"... freedom of religion? sure, they believe in "freedom of religion"... which means, "you can go to any church you want to in Tulsa, just choose one..." Alot of them still consider "evolution" as a flawed theory having no place in public schools and will support "intelligent design" yet can be suprisingly "pro-environment" if push comes to shove...
The idea of "tolerance" for these folks means they'll vote outside of their religious denomination for a conservative Catholic (see fmr. Okla. Sen. Don Nickles)...
---Okay, that was the cliffnotes version. I could add Tulsa's Southern Hills country club Republicans and the urban/suburban/rural rednecks and wanna-be rednecks...
Actually, if you seek them out, you can find LOTS of Tulsans who don't fit very well into any of these catagories (doesn't make 'em democrat or liberal, just not your run-of-the-mill Tulsan who rubberstamps any Republican on the presidential ballot and demonizes any Dem)... this is almost as much fun as looking for republicans in Massachusetts... [}:)]
Instead of concentrating on the obvious, be on the lookout for "Weird Tulsa," which includes some pretty fun, eclectic and independent groups that include rebelious colored-hair and/or tattooed twenty-somethings... young and old bikers who still look like "freaks" with their long Leon Russell hair... rednecks and "good 'ol boys" who are much smarter than they let on... and ORU castaways and Rhema rejects (people who came here as young religious zealots from all over the country/world... stayed and... well... did an REM style "losing my religion")...
Hope this helps.
jiminy...you are completely wrong on your hunch.
Conan, that was funny. But that guy would scare you too. Why don't you guys invite him to your next get together? I'm sure we could all take him. [:D]Better yet, you guys fight him and I'll keep his girl company. [;)]
Anyway, like I said I am not bagging on anyone's point of view, I was just curious. Thanks to everyone for their responses.
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt
jiminy...you are completely wrong on your hunch.
Conan, that was funny. But that guy would scare you too. Why don't you guys invite him to your next get together? I'm sure we could all take him. [:D]Better yet, you guys fight him and I'll keep his girl company. [;)]
Anyway, like I said I am not bagging on anyone's point of view, I was just curious. Thanks to everyone for their responses.
Actually, by virtue of publicly posting lunch or happy hour plans, anyone is welcome to show up (Jerry Giordano ring a bell w/ anyone?) including the scary Italian guy or yourself. So by virtue of that, we keep inviting him but he never shows up. For that matter, neither do you. [;)]
This is the true reason.
From http://meeciteewurkor.wordpress.com/
For those who slept through World History 101...... here is a condensed version.
Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter. The two most important events in all of history were:
1. The invention of beer, and
2. The invention of the wheel.
The wheel was invented to get man to the beer, and the beer to the man. These facts formed the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:
1. Liberals
2. Conservatives.
Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed. Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to BB Q at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as the Conservative movement.
Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly BBQ's and doing the sewing, fetching, and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the Liberal movement. Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. The rest became known as girlie-men. Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy and group hugs, the evolution of the Hollywood actor, and the concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide all the meat and beer that conservatives provided.
Over the years, Conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass. Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare.
Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of liberal women have higher testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't fair to make the pitcher also bat. Conservatives drink domestic beer. They eat red meat and still provide for their women.. Conservatives are attorneys, big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police officers, corporate executives, athletes, Marines, and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living.
Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America . They crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for nothing. Here ends today's lesson in world history.......
[:D]
This little old lady calls 911. When the operator answers she yells, "Help, send the police to my house right away! There's a damn Democrat on my front porch and he's playing with himself."
"What?" the operator exclaimed. "I said there is a damn Democrat on my front porch playing with himself and he's weird; I don't know him and I'm afraid! Please send the police!" the little old lady repeated.
"Well, now, how do you know he's a Democrat?"
"Because, you damn fool, if it was a Republican, he'd be screwing somebody!"