Most likely these two will be in the Big 12 Championship Game.
I for one think KU is a much better team than OU. And I can't wait for this game so I can see Mangino...Stomp his old boss Stoops.
Its not all that likely. OU still has to get by Tech and O-state. We typically have trouble with Tech and the ags live only to destroy Sooner dreams, having none of their own.
I agree that KU has a real overachieving, working class team. They look good without any Heisman candidates and a coach that carries cheeseburgers in his back pockets. I heard the team had T-shirts printed that said, "Our Coach...Can Eat Your Coach!" But they play the weaker teams in the Big 12 other than K-State and Mizzou. And KU has both those teams left to play.
Three teams in the top ten? So much for a weak Big 12!
I like OSU's chances to beat Kansas this weekend. It's not a must win, beating Baylor the next weekend would get OSU bowl-eligible. But beating Kansas then Baylor makes for a meaningful Bedlam game, for OSU.
Forget Monkey wrenches, that would throw a full grown ape that swallowed a barrel full of wrenches into UK's works.
And I like the Jayhawks, glad they're putting it together.
Waterboy... K-State lost to Iowa State. We all know Colorado is flaky, Nebraska is a paper tiger, Iowa State sucks (beat K-State and Iowa, lost to everyone else including D-IAA Northern Iowa [my alma mater]), K-State is not that good. So the North has Mizzou that's any good and they got beat by the Sooners.
Kansas' best win is a one score victory over a struggling and unranked A&M team. Which OU simply pounded into the ground. Kansas has beaten exactly ZERO teams in the top 42 (BCS ranked teams). And lets not forget their September schedule #77 Central Michigan, I-AA SE LA, #108 Toledo, and the worst team in D-IA # 119 Florida Int. Throw in the worst team in the Big 12 (Baylor) and a handful of average teams and you get an extremely weak schedule (average opponent rank #80).
I'm not on the Sooner Schooner (go TU!), but if the line opens up anything less than OU - 10 I'm all over that. I'm not confident KU gets by Mizzou. They are an overachieving team, but thus far while being consistent I do not think they have earned a #5 ranking.
---
and PS. This season has taught every AD in the nation to schedule the most puffballs you can to claw your way into a BCS game. Ohio's State's big win is over #23 Penn State. Undefeated with a puff ball schedule > a real schedule where you may get some losses. No more OU-Miami or Texas-Ohio State, go out and schedule Toledo, Florida International, a D-IAA, and a directional Michigan.
and while we are at it. Tulsa drops the game this weekend to Houston: 35-45. I hope not, but that's what my betting clicker finger is telling me. If Tulsa wins and then pounds the crap out of Rice we will get ECU in the conference championship leaving us the Liberty Bowl or the GMAC bowl. We lose, its probably the (Houston) Texas Bowl.
I'm just happy to be talking about which bowl. [;)]
KU hasn't played anybody worth a toot. I can't see it beating OU or anyone else from the Big 12 South, unless its opponent commits A LOT of turnovers.
Keep int mind, KU could still lose against Missouri and OSU (at Stillwater), too, and lose its division.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Waterboy... K-State lost to Iowa State. We all know Colorado is flaky, Nebraska is a paper tiger, Iowa State sucks (beat K-State and Iowa, lost to everyone else including D-IAA Northern Iowa [my alma mater]), K-State is not that good. So the North has Mizzou that's any good and they got beat by the Sooners.
Kansas' best win is a one score victory over a struggling and unranked A&M team. Which OU simply pounded into the ground. Kansas has beaten exactly ZERO teams in the top 42 (BCS ranked teams). And lets not forget their September schedule #77 Central Michigan, I-AA SE LA, #108 Toledo, and the worst team in D-IA # 119 Florida Int. Throw in the worst team in the Big 12 (Baylor) and a handful of average teams and you get an extremely weak schedule (average opponent rank #80).
I'm not on the Sooner Schooner (go TU!), but if the line opens up anything less than OU - 10 I'm all over that. I'm not confident KU gets by Mizzou. They are an overachieving team, but thus far while being consistent I do not think they have earned a #5 ranking.
---
and PS. This season has taught every AD in the nation to schedule the most puffballs you can to claw your way into a BCS game. Ohio's State's big win is over #23 Penn State. Undefeated with a puff ball schedule > a real schedule where you may get some losses. No more OU-Miami or Texas-Ohio State, go out and schedule Toledo, Florida International, a D-IAA, and a directional Michigan.
and while we are at it. Tulsa drops the game this weekend to Houston: 35-45. I hope not, but that's what my betting clicker finger is telling me. If Tulsa wins and then pounds the crap out of Rice we will get ECU in the conference championship leaving us the Liberty Bowl or the GMAC bowl. We lose, its probably the (Houston) Texas Bowl.
I'm just happy to be talking about which bowl. [;)]
I agree with you CF. I had lost track of K-State. Indeed they seem to have faltered. That makes the Big 12 North even weaker and Kansas will face its first hurdles with O-State and and a hot Missouri team. Big 12 is actually kind of fun this year.
BTW, I heard the OSU fans were pretty rude and unruly to the Texas fans. They threw trash at them, and even hit a cheerleader with a bottle. The band was drowned out by the aggie band and the Texas team left without singing the "eyes of Texas" for fear of trouble. Is this the new Gundy attitude we're seeing?
I hope not. I like OSU (in spite of great and inexplicable hostility towards Tulsa - thanks for agreeing to play us once a decade in Basketball if not Football). For some reason OSU is my boys favorite team (color orange and a mascot with guns?). They seemed to be a vibrant and fast paced team with a bankroll and huge potential.
But now they seem more like Prima Donna's. "Best offense in the country" if you dont count T Tech, Tulsa, Hawaii, Houston, Oregon, Louisville, and Missouri. I'm happy they are getting an ice stadium renovation and they want to be in the national spotlight, but lets wait until you are until you jack up ticket prices. The cheap seats to Texas were $85 each AND THEY DID NOT SELL OUT.
If you can't sell out vs. Texas then your pricing is clearly all screwed up. Certainly has priced me out of an afternoon in Stillwater with my son, which is too bad because I bet it would be fun.
So basically, I hope this is not indicative of the Gundy era in Stillwater - moderate success at the mistreatment of fans and a cocky attitude. But thus far it seems you are correct. Luckily he's a man, he can take it.
Inexplicable? Oh no sir. OSU and TU are rivals. Damn shame that the ole crazy loud mouth Keith Burnes shut down that series.
Part of me wishes OSU and TU would hurry up and start playing each other every year again. Even though that means OSU has to automatically lose 1 out of every 3 times they play TU.
I'd say there's far more respect at OSU for TU, than most people believe. I bet you'd find most OSU fans are ready to jump on that TU bandwagon anytime, except when they're playing OSU.
On sell outs, the stadium is actually shrinking by seats, a little bit, since the renovation. They typically only sell out one or two games every other year. It's not normal for them to have a sell-out. And ticket prices were jacked way up over the last few years, can't say what will happen in the future. That stadium is becoming a very hard place to play for visiting teams. And once the end zone is done, there should be another cheaper tier to their ticket prices.
quote:
BTW, I heard the OSU fans were pretty rude and unruly to the Texas fans. They threw trash at them, and even hit a cheerleader with a bottle. The band was drowned out by the aggie band and the Texas team left without singing the "eyes of Texas" for fear of trouble. Is this the new Gundy attitude we're seeing?
That surprises me, because I was at the game and in Stillwater all day on Saturday and I didn't see any of that...I saw the usual heckling at the game, but that's it. In fact, I heard from most of the Texas fans I encountered that they were having a great time and were appreciative of how gracious Pokes fans were being...but maybe I was just lucky enough not to see any of the negative incidents. As an OSU alum, I would really hope it's not true. :(
Well, you know, it was one of those crazy OU fans that can't stop obsessing on OSU, that brought it up in the first place.
It's probably quite untrue.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC
Well, you know, it was one of those crazy OU fans that can't stop obsessing on OSU, that brought it up in the first place.
It's probably quite untrue.
I guess that would be me. True enough, crazy about OU and actually an alum. I used to enjoy OSU as well till Gundy and Tulsa aggie fans cured me of that. But the story came from a long time Texas fan, transplanted to Oklahoma, who has gone to all the Texas/OU and Texas/OSU games for many years without incident. She said there was a real difference from the past. She also said that Mack Brown had mentioned it in interviews after the game. Maybe she exaggerated or maybe this game was harder for the loyalists to swallow.
If it happened it happened. Not going to defend it, or excuse it. Texas and OU douchebags show up at the games all the time, can't outclass either one, certainly not by being a douchebag.
I'm an OSU alum, and I approve this message.
There could be a distration for The Pokes this week.....
http://newsok.com/article/3166174/1194443428
*shrug*
I doubt it'll be a distraction. Happens relatively often, as any OU fan would know. It's good that OU and OSU both got Probation back in the late 80's, they're at least a little responsible about getting people out now. Though everyone's still taking second chance players.
Unlike the days of Switzer, where your QB's a cocaine dealer, and everyone seems to think that's cool as long as he can play.
Yes I'm sure OU actively recruits child rapist.....Gundy is in deep doo doo over this.....Hell Mack Brown didn't even want him.....
Yeah, it's a really really big deal, to you and the rest of the Gooner-Nation. Guarantee you, nothing changes at OSU. They'll get rid of him and move on, end of story.
Those comments are from your fan base not mine...lol...Keep digging that hole for your-self.....
Or, maybe not. Looks like the jury came in with a probation recommendation. He's a partially free man.
Must have been some odd circumstances. Being the state of Texas and all. Maybe it had to do with the fact that he was a juvenile when he committed the crime, or maybe it was one of those Georgia overkill things. *shrug*
Like I said, the only ones that find this a really big deal, are the Gooner Nation.
http://www.orangepower.com/showthread.php?t=43824
Lol...That should keep you busy for awhile..
Until everyone decides that those accused of a crime can't go to college, or can't play football, OSU and Gundy did nothing wrong or even atypical.
That's the bottom line.
Though it's nothing new that Gooner fan, probably a poser anyway, keeps harping on it.
Yes that worked for Prentiss Elliot as well....Gundy is lucky he doesn't have blood on his hands for that nightmare.....How many pair of orange colored glasses do you have....
(http://www.oread.ku.edu/Oread04/Mar5/Mar5images/homecoming.jpg)
Rock Chalk...
(http://www.joe-college.com/catalog/images/OUR-COACH-CAN-EAT-.jpg)
(http://thefeed.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/mangino_t450.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9He7t50L4yI
And if things don't work out, we still have this:
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070110/070110_rush_vmed_8p.widec.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Yes that worked for Prentiss Elliot as well....Gundy is lucky he doesn't have blood on his hands for that nightmare.....How many pair of orange colored glasses do you have....
Good one brainiac. Elliot got kicked off the team for theft he committed while at OSU.
Dusty Dvoracek, on the other hand, got a suspension for an assault he committed while at OU. He played again later. Though a few years earlier, a couple of players got kicked off OU's squad for whipping up on a Langston player, go figure.
(Stoops actually does have blood on his hands. If you really want to be moronic about it.)
Not saying there's anything necessarily wrong with either case. Elliot was a juvenile offender, don't know about Dvoracek. Or any of the other players. But you're going to empty OU's squad if you start dumping everyone "accused" of a crime.
You have to be dumb as rock to think that will fly. But by all means, give it a try. Has nothing to do with "glasses", that's reality. Which you would know, if you weren't a hateful Sooner wannabe.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
Rock Chalk...
(http://www.joe-college.com/catalog/images/OUR-COACH-CAN-EAT-.jpg)
I love that shirt.
Gotta get me one.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Yes that worked for Prentiss Elliot as well....Gundy is lucky he doesn't have blood on his hands for that nightmare.....How many pair of orange colored glasses do you have....
Good one brainiac. Elliot got kicked off the team for theft he committed while at OSU.
Dusty Dvoracek, on the other hand, got a suspension for an assault he committed while at OU. He played again later. Though a few years earlier, a couple of players got kicked off OU's squad for whipping up on a Langston player, go figure.
(Stoops actually does have blood on his hands. If you really want to be moronic about it.)
Not saying there's anything necessarily wrong with either case. Elliot was a juvenile offender, don't know about Dvoracek. Or any of the other players. But you're going to empty OU's squad if you start dumping everyone "accused" of a crime.
You have to be dumb as rock to think that will fly. But by all means, give it a try. Has nothing to do with "glasses", that's reality. Which you would know, if you weren't a hateful Sooner wannabe.
Whoa! You get beat up by a drunken Sooner in a bar somewhere? Ease up. All sports programs are laced with dumb athletes that make mistakes that are visible to the public. Many people actually believe that the discipline of a sport and the guidance of a strong coach keeps them straight or reforms them. Not my belief but quite common. Can't blame a coach for trying to help a youngster and improve his program at the same time. Honestly, the Dvorcek experience was a positive one.
But Prentiss was a bad gamble that OSU could have avoided. His problems (more than theft)started in high school and were not unknown to recruiters. You probably know or should know the story if you follow local basketball. OSU has had to gamble some to get their program on a par with the elite teams. Sometimes they have gotten burned.
KU by 3 over OSU. And the KU cheerleaders will be packing.
Prentiss may have been a bad gamble. But every coach makes potentially bad gambles. It's the nature of the game. Most of those "gambles" pay off, and by definition, some "gambles" wont. And if he flew straight at OSU no one would be talking about him.
How many juvenile offenders has Stoopes signed on? Hard to tell, the only person I've ever heard of was the high profile Elliot at OSU, but I bet you he's not the only one in the state. With so many coming out of Texas, instead of Tulsa, how would you know?
As long as a couple of OU jackasses want to make this about Gundy, we'll throw f'n thing back at Stoops. OU's teams have been full of thugs. I have no problem throwing it back that way.
quote:
Can't blame a coach for trying to help a youngster and improve his program at the same time.
Damn interesting concept there.
And Dvoracek was a gamble. Don't care if you're in love with him. If he'd a screwed up again, or killed someone out of drunken rage, it be a different story. That gamble paid off.
Swake: You're welcome for Bill Self. XoXo Tulsa.
OSU and OU haters (respectively):
What do you call the place where they keep all the convicts in Texas?
A huddle! [}:)]
I don't hate OU, just their fans. Some of the biggest, scrotum tearing, douchebags you'll ever find.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC
Prentiss may have been a bad gamble. But every coach makes potentially bad gambles. It's the nature of the game. Most of those "gambles" pay off, and by definition, some "gambles" wont. And if he flew straight at OSU no one would be talking about him.
How many juvenile offenders has Stoopes signed on? Hard to tell, the only person I've ever heard of was the high profile Elliot at OSU, but I bet you he's not the only one in the state. With so many coming out of Texas, instead of Tulsa, how would you know?
As long as a couple of OU jackasses want to make this about Gundy, we'll throw f'n thing back at Stoops. OU's teams have been full of thugs. I have no problem throwing it back that way.
quote:
Can't blame a coach for trying to help a youngster and improve his program at the same time.
Damn interesting concept there.
And Dvoracek was a gamble. Don't care if you're in love with him. If he'd a screwed up again, or killed someone out of drunken rage, it be a different story. That gamble paid off.
Damn interesting concept there. Is that sarcasm? You'll have to be less subtle. I am a Sooner for gawd's sake.
I love the story about the Miami team and their new coach. Talk about gambling. His program will pay off and this guy will end up a hero win or lose. Stoops is perceived by the Sooner faithful in the same way. OU's program had sunk so low he got saviour status just by doing his job. I wish OSU had found a coach with the Miami coache's temperament. And don't get testy about that remark. Gundy screwed up with his press conference and to their credit, not a single elite program coach criticized him for it. They know what he is going through.
Remember, today's thug is tomorrow's motivational speaker.[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Remember, today's thug is tomorrow's motivational speaker.[;)]
Or Senator.
Wish we could ban football players from running for political seats.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/sports/ncaafootball/08assault.html?_r=1&ref=ncaafootball&oref=slogin
Oops....Looks like no one cares.....
I love all of these front-running Gooner fans talking down the Pokes.
I can't wait until 11/24.
And the Texas ordeal did happen. Mack Brown commented on it and was pretty pissed. They had to wear helmets while the team sang 'Eyes of Texas' at the end of the game.
P.S. Missouri is my call for the conference champion.
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
I love all of these front-running Gooner fans talking down the Pokes.
I can't wait until 11/24.
Sorry.....But your team is coach is making it's own headlines.......
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
P.S. Missouri is my call for the conference champion.
I gotta go Missouri too.
But you know, in the South, if Texas loses to Tech or A&M, which is possible: OSU would control it's own destiny again. OSU needs to beat Kansas and then lowly Baylor, just in case.
What Happened.......?
To OSU? OSU got beat.
It's all good. All real college football fans are pulling for Kansas to go undefeated. Though, before the OSU game, I half expect Mizzou to knock off Kansas later this season. Now, I'm not so sure. Probably the biggest game in the BigXII this year, that's different. And it'll be a good one, unless Mizzou fails to show up. Kansas will be there, and will be 11-0 by that time.
Go Jayhawks.
For OSU, this was supposed to be a very down season. OSU was too young on the D-line, and with injuries they're entire depth at defense is about 13 players total. They're running a skeleton crew over there. If they beat Baylor, they make a bowl. They weren't supposed to make a bowl game this year.
But man, in that Kansas game, it became obvious late that OSU has an ARMY of solid freshmen WR's. Put that with their army of freshmen RB's, and their very young defense and o-line, OSU is pretty good, and they're going to get better.
It is good, when juniors and seniors who were starting last year, are on the bench because freshmen can outplay them.
From what little I did see of the KU/OSU game last night, KU brought their "A" game and OSU's defense must have been AWOL.
I'm real interested to see what will happen against Mizzou.
Kansas is a team that could be real scary in the Big 12 championship game if OU's sputtering in the post season in recent years happens.
I also caught some of the OU game last night.
Sam Bradford is just plain impressive, he's an animal. I'm picking him as a Heisman candidate next year.
Kansas Basketball, ranked 4th, undefeated (I know only two games, but it's early)
Kansas Football, ranked 4th , undefeated
first time both KU basketball and football were undefeated in the same month.
And the last time KU football was 10-0 someone named James Naismith was the basketball coach in 1899.
If a football school (Florida) can with the title the same year in both sports, why not a basketball school?
Rock Chalk
Bradford is impressive at home, and against teams like Baylor. It's on the road that he suffers, like when OU beat lowly Iowa State 17-7, or when they lost to Colorado.
I think they'll make it through the next two games, not sure. Tech and OSU are not at their best right now defensively, OSU fields the more conventional defense of the two. But it's pretty young, lacks depth.
But Bradford's a little bit of a pocket passer. That's only good if you have a pocket. And the O is designed to give Bradford the easy stuff, to keep Bradford out of trouble. He makes mistakes if he has to think or improvise. I'm sure Tech, OSU, and eventually Kansas or Mizzou, have all taken notice. And I'd expect somebody to tee-off on him.
That's what happened to Hybl a few years ago. Except Hybl was smarter, had a better arm, and was maybe a little less mobile. The later in the season in got, the less likely OU was to win. Teams figured out that Hybl was as about as much of a runner as FDR.
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
Bradford is impressive at home, and against teams like Baylor. It's on the road that he suffers, like when OU beat lowly Iowa State 17-7, or when they lost to Colorado.
I think they'll make it through the next two games, not sure. Tech and OSU are not at their best right now defensively, OSU fields the more conventional defense of the two. But it's pretty young, lacks depth.
But Bradford's a little bit of a pocket passer. That's only good if you have a pocket. And the O is designed to give Bradford the easy stuff, to keep Bradford out of trouble. He makes mistakes if he has to think or improvise. I'm sure Tech, OSU, and eventually Kansas or Mizzou, have all taken notice. And I'd expect somebody to tee-off on him.
That's what happened to Hybl a few years ago. Except Hybl was smarter, had a better arm, and was maybe a little less mobile. The later in the season in got, the less likely OU was to win. Teams figured out that Hybl was as about as much of a runner as FDR.
It helps if you actually watch football games before you comment on the players......
Bradford is learning and maturing. I'm glad Stoops left him in as long as he did Saturday to get more experience (well and to try and help their BCS rankings as well).
<Neptune wrote:
But Bradford's a little bit of a pocket passer. That's only good if you have a pocket. And the O is designed to give Bradford the easy stuff, to keep Bradford out of trouble. He makes mistakes if he has to think or improvise. I'm sure Tech, OSU, and eventually Kansas or Mizzou, have all taken notice. And I'd expect somebody to tee-off on him.
<end clip>
In the end, you find very, very few quarterbacks who do well when the pocket is collapsing and they have to improvise.
I'd rather have a quarterback who does well in the pocket. Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and Tom Brady don't move much at all, yet they had long periods of success because they offensive scheme was fit around them. That's the key.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Bradford is learning and maturing. I'm glad Stoops left him in as long as he did Saturday to get more experience (well and to try and help their BCS rankings as well).
That why the scheme is still more important than him: maturity. It's hard to tell if he's good, or good enough, or what. He's capable of throwing some fairly bad passes, but as long as it's high precision, it's working out for him.
I think he's more mobile than Hybl, that guy had no legs, so that's not saying much. It'll be interesting to see what happens to Bradford when he hits speed and a strong d-line. He hasn't seen it much this year.
After this weekend and their BCS #3 rank could someone please list the top 25 teams that Kansas has beat? Top 35? Their highest ranked opponent is #40 Colorado followed by # 44 A&M. From there it is # 65 Nebraska and down, down down all the way to the worst team in D-I # 119 FIU. Tulsa has a more quality win beating #36 BYU.
Winning every weak counts for something and they are a clean football team. But at some point you have to wonder if they can beat good teams or just consistently beat up competition that is having an "off" year.
I don't know. They went to Colorado, and beat Colorado, where OU couldn't. They beat A&M, at A&M. Which is not easy, you have to be considerably better than A&M to beat them at Kyle Field.
Kansas is very solid, very well coached. They may not be the strongest team around, but they're not bad either. Don't know what's going to happen later.
I'm hoping they keep on winning. Talk about dream, Kansas in the Nation Championship, I'm all about that.
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
I don't know. They went to Colorado, and beat Colorado, where OU couldn't. They beat A&M, at A&M. Which is not easy, you have to be considerably better than A&M to beat them at Kyle Field.
Kansas is very solid, very well coached. They may not be the strongest team around, but they're not bad either. Don't know what's going to happen later.
I'm hoping they keep on winning. Talk about dream, Kansas in the Nation Championship, I'm all about that.
OU had what, five turnovers in the game one of them within 20 yds. of the end zone? How many turn-overs did KU give Colorado?
Couldn't tell you.
OU fans might want to make excuses for losing to Colorado, but on that day, Colorado was the better team. That's always the bottom line. And OU does get streaky sometimes with the turnovers and penalties, it usually happens when some team gets OU out of it's game.
Kansas, seems to be very clean and crisp. It's nothing against OU, but Kansas hasn't done that yet. It's still certainly possible for KU to lose any of the next couple of games.
No doubt that OU dropped the ball and was appropriately punished for it. But they then beat #13 Texas and #5 Missouri as well as playing a much tougher out of conference schedule (Tulsa and Miami vs. last place FIU and Central Michigan).
It should be noted that Colorado beating OU has been proven more of a defeat for OU than a victory for the Buffs. Reference their losses to ISU, MO, and K State.
I guess I have more respect for the team that has been proven capable of beating top caliber opponents but has shown they can really screw up, over a team that has shown it can consistently beat poor teams. I can't say OU would crush the, but I just have no confidence in an untested team.
I'm still not sure Kansas will make it to the Championship game. Mizzou will be tough, and Mizzou wants it pretty bad too. I like both of them. I like all of the BigXII.
I wouldn't know who to bet on in the BigXII Championship.
Well, lets see...Boston College rated #1 after beating who? Southern Florida #1 after beating who? Ohio State #1 after beating supposedly strong teams from weak conference then exposed.
Then there was USC, LSU and Cal all supposedly unbeatable powerhouses and bonafide #1's with tough schedules who lost to lesser teams.
I would surmise that Kansas and Hawaii have as much right to #2 as anyone else.
KU all the way. I'm not a fan of either team (I'm a Razorback fan) but I'm almost always a fan of the underdog, and KU has sucked it for a long time and OU has been on or near the top for the quite a while, so I'm rooting for the Jayhawks to win the Big 12 as well as the NC.
I went to a KU game in I think it was 2002, and I was on the opposite sideline from the KU team. I could see Mangino like he was a few feet away. The guy is HUGE!
I've always thought, this year, that the BigXII was weak. But if you guys think the BigXII is great this year, then yeah, absolutely Kansas deserves it.
http://www.tigerboard.com/boards/missouri-tigers.php?message=5042950
The North has won 10 games against the South. And the South has won 8 games against the North. That's different.
Kansas 3-0
Colorado 3-0
Mizzou 2-1
Kansas State 2-1
Iowa State 0-3
Nebraska 0-3
OSU 2-1
Texas 2-1
OU 2-1
A&M 1-2
Tech 1-2
Baylor 0-3
Hey, I think Mangino's done a great job there, they just have not played the same schedule OU has. Sure OU should have kicked the **** out of Colorado, and might have on a different weekend. You can't say one team is better than another just because they beat someone the other team lost to it's not a great comparison.
I'd love to see KU and OU play for the championship. If KU makes it past Mizzou, then they will have certainly earned it and quieted some skeptics.
The North/South rankings are usually how you gauge strength of the two halves of the conference. Either the South has gotten worse, or the North has gotten better. Just a few years ago, everyone in the South went 3-0 versus the North, except Baylor, who went 0-3. South 15, North 3. And it was obvious the North was bad.
If the trend holds up, the North and South are much closer to equals now.
The thing that gets me is, I can understand how it's hard to judge between OU, KU and MU. But they will all play each other in some form in the next several weeks. It's that LSU is #1 in the polls, the SEC is a joke this year and for some reason....... they the poll givers are giving credit to their #1 team (LSU) while many Big 12 teams could beat LSU.
I do think that whoever wins the Big 12 Championship will be playing for a national title in the bowl games. And LSU nor Oregon would be able to beat them.
Well it's hard to gauge how good the BigXII is, the toughest teams they play are in conference. Someone has to win. It's not like every team in D-I plays against each other.
And on OU, KU, MU, the favorite has to be OU probably. Just by history.
KU and MU have never been there before. OU did play Mizzou, but that was in Norman. And, home field advantage aside, no one knows how that would turn out a second time. In fact, if I were OU, the last team I'd want to see in the Championship is Mizzou. Simply because, it's almost always harder to beat a team the second time around.
Kansas, no one knows. They've played sharp, had a few good road wins. But it's hard to tell what their capabilities are. They haven't had that "big game" so to speak, yet. Mizzou will be the test.
I see you're pulling for Kansas Porky. Good for you, they deserve all the support they get.
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
The thing that gets me is, I can understand how it's hard to judge between OU, KU and MU. But they will all play each other in some form in the next several weeks. It's that LSU is #1 in the polls, the SEC is a joke this year and for some reason....... they the poll givers are giving credit to their #1 team (LSU) while many Big 12 teams could beat LSU.
I do think that whoever wins the Big 12 Championship will be playing for a national title in the bowl games. And LSU nor Oregon would be able to beat them.
I agree that the SEC is an unknown quantity, yet LSU is deigned to be superior by the polls. Why? The entire SEC conference only plays 14 non-conference games and probably cream puffs at that. How do we know they are so great when they only play teams they are familiar with? Anyone who saw clips of Tulane pushing around the big boys from LSU and leading in the third quarter, knows they are not superior.
OU has to get by both Tech and OSU just to get the chance to play MO or KU. I said from the start of the season that Tech has the best chance to dump OU. OUr defensive backfield and our offensive line have not gelled. This game is pick'em.
Yeah, you OU homers were saying that when OU went down and got it handed to them by LSU a few years back.
You were also saying that when you denied undefeated Auburn, only to have OU get destroyed by USC.
The BigXII may be as good as the SEC this year. Until the BigXII proves it, that's just BS. That hasn't been the case the last several years.
And who did OU play non conference. Is it that win against TU, or the win at home against 5-5 Miami that you're claiming is so big?
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
Yeah, you OU homers were saying that when OU went down and got it handed to them by LSU a few years back.
You were also saying that when you denied undefeated Auburn, only to have OU get destroyed by USC.
The BigXII may be as good as the SEC this year. Until the BigXII proves it, that's just BS. That hasn't been the case the last several years.
And who did OU play non conference. Is it that win against TU, or the win at home against 5-5 Miami that you're claiming is so big?
Who are you calling homer? You talk more about OU than I do! Closet homer?
I never said Big12 was better than SEC, just that the coastal dominated press picks favorites from favored conferences and then seems surprised when some chump knocks them off. Its an upset a week for these guys. They always act astounded and everyone buys it!! People complain that we play weak non-conference but ignore that the SEC plays little non conference at all. Boise last year or App State this year should have awakened folks but I guess its more fun just to be surprised.
I would bet that the top 4 teams from the Big12 would be competitive against any SEC or Pac10 team. The Big 12 reputation suffers from the ineptness of Iowa St., Baylor and underachieving OSU but the others have their weak links too. Tulane, Cal, Stanford, Arkansas and Miami ain't nothin' special. Didn't TU beat Tulane? The same Two-lane that carried LSU into the the third quarter? OU beat Miami. They were considered tough at that time. OSU was competitive with Georgia.
OU got outcoached and outplayed by PAC10 top teams the last few years, which didn't surprise me, but every year is different. We didn't have a player on contract like Bush and we had weak line play but the PAC 10 isn't so special this year. LSU is vulnerable. We also smacked some good SEC teams in bowl games in the early 2000's but I guess that doesn't matter.
This area boasts the highest number of OSU alums and the strongest support in the nation including Stillwater, (even so they can't seem to find sponsors for a radio or TV program) so I have come to understand the animosity for anything Sooner, but until you Aggies fill your stadium for a Texas or undefeated Kansas type team, keep the criticisms among your own kind.[;)]
lol
Homer!
I like the BigXII. I really really do. More than any conference, and I follow a lot of NCAA D-I football. I'm very happy that Mizzou or Kansas will make the Championship, it's new.
Miami was only tough, if you didn't follow them. Historically, yes, but last year was terrible. They had some kind of probation, this isn't the old Miami. I think that's why USF has peaked out, getting normal Hurricane recruits.
I think OSU gets it's fair share. They have ever since they came out of Probation back in the 90's. And I think, OSU was the last BigXII team to beat an SEC team. Last year against Alabama.
But I wouldn't be able to gauge LSU by Arkansas or Tulane. OU struggled against Iowa State, who lost to I-AA Northern Iowa. Doesn't say much about OU. And Arkansas may be terrible in the SEC, you put them in the BigXII, they might very well be middle-of-the-road and a future contender.
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
lol
Homer!
I like the BigXII. I really really do. More than any conference, and I follow a lot of NCAA D-I football. I'm very happy that Mizzou or Kansas will make the Championship, it's new.
Miami was only tough, if you didn't follow them. Historically, yes, but last year was terrible. They had some kind of probation, this isn't the old Miami. I think that's why USF has peaked out, getting normal Hurricane recruits.
I think OSU gets it's fair share. They have ever since they came out of Probation back in the 90's. And I think, OSU was the last BigXII team to beat an SEC team. Last year against Alabama.
But I wouldn't be able to gauge LSU by Arkansas or Tulane. OU struggled against Iowa State, who lost to I-AA Northern Iowa. Doesn't say much about OU. And Arkansas may be terrible in the SEC, you put them in the BigXII, they might very well be middle-of-the-road and a future contender.
Poor Aggie!
Arkansas chose to go SEC didn't they? And they are respected there. They would do no better in the Big12 than they did in the SouthWest conference. Respectable and sometimes great.
Pull out the Sports Illustrated from back in August for a good laugh. Then think about how we almost got South Florida, Boston College, Ohio State, USC, and Cal, as contenders for the national championship. You simply cannot make accurate measurement of conference strength or predict outcomes from those measurements. Too many variables. A playoff system is the only true guage.
Huh?
Arkansas' move to SEC was a serious mistake for Arkansas. They lost all of their Texas recruiting power, every bit of it, that's why they'll have difficulty ever taking off. Arkansas vs Texas, is a pretty big rivalry.
It's the same with OU. If OU were somehow to be thrown to the SEC, or if the OU vs Texas rivalry were stopped, OU would plummet, no recruits. They're entire team is from Texas.
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
Huh?
Arkansas' move to SEC was a serious mistake for Arkansas. They lost all of their Texas recruiting power, every bit of it, that's why they'll have difficulty ever taking off. Arkansas vs Texas, is a pretty big rivalry.
It's the same with OU. If OU were somehow to be thrown to the SEC, or if the OU vs Texas rivalry were stopped, OU would plummet, no recruits. They're entire team is from Texas.
Have difficulty taking off??? The teams they lost to last year finished out the season at #1, 3, 4, & 7. They beat Auburn when Auburn was #2. They played a very tough schedule last year. Aside from their loss to USC, they were beat by 10, 5, and 3 points in their three other losses.
They've had some pretty good seasons in the 15 or 20 years since they went SEC, this doesn't happen to be one of the more stellar ones looking at who they've beat and who they've lost to. They shouldn't have a problem with Miss. State, but if they win against LSU, that screws up the BCS and they finish the regular season at 8-4.
I count somewhere around 35 players from Texas on the Arkansas roster, and about 33 on the OU roster. Considering that accounts for about 1/4 of the crop at Arkansas, doesn't sound like they've lost all connection to Texas recruits.
Do you talk just to hear yourself sometimes?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
Huh?
Arkansas' move to SEC was a serious mistake for Arkansas. They lost all of their Texas recruiting power, every bit of it, that's why they'll have difficulty ever taking off. Arkansas vs Texas, is a pretty big rivalry.
It's the same with OU. If OU were somehow to be thrown to the SEC, or if the OU vs Texas rivalry were stopped, OU would plummet, no recruits. They're entire team is from Texas.
Have difficulty taking off??? The teams they lost to last year finished out the season at #1, 3, 4, & 7. They beat Auburn when Auburn was #2. They played a very tough schedule last year. Aside from their loss to USC, they were beat by 10, 5, and 3 points in their three other losses.
They've had some pretty good seasons in the 15 or 20 years since they went SEC, this doesn't happen to be one of the more stellar ones looking at who they've beat and who they've lost to. They shouldn't have a problem with Miss. State, but if they win against LSU, that screws up the BCS and they finish the regular season at 8-4.
I count somewhere around 35 players from Texas on the Arkansas roster, and about 33 on the OU roster. Considering that accounts for about 1/4 of the crop at Arkansas, doesn't sound like they've lost all connection to Texas recruits.
Do you talk just to hear yourself sometimes?
OSU has a huge chunk of Texas players. Big deal, there are tons of them around. Arkansas getting everyone out of Texas, that doesn't make a BigXII school. It's about recruiting power, they lost it. Back in the day, they could dominate the Longhorns with Texas players, for years. They aren't capable of that now.
Pick a side Gomer, SEC good, or SEC bad. I say SEC good, Arkansas never to be competitive in that conference.
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
Huh?
Arkansas' move to SEC was a serious mistake for Arkansas. They lost all of their Texas recruiting power, every bit of it, that's why they'll have difficulty ever taking off. Arkansas vs Texas, is a pretty big rivalry.
It's the same with OU. If OU were somehow to be thrown to the SEC, or if the OU vs Texas rivalry were stopped, OU would plummet, no recruits. They're entire team is from Texas.
Have difficulty taking off??? The teams they lost to last year finished out the season at #1, 3, 4, & 7. They beat Auburn when Auburn was #2. They played a very tough schedule last year. Aside from their loss to USC, they were beat by 10, 5, and 3 points in their three other losses.
They've had some pretty good seasons in the 15 or 20 years since they went SEC, this doesn't happen to be one of the more stellar ones looking at who they've beat and who they've lost to. They shouldn't have a problem with Miss. State, but if they win against LSU, that screws up the BCS and they finish the regular season at 8-4.
I count somewhere around 35 players from Texas on the Arkansas roster, and about 33 on the OU roster. Considering that accounts for about 1/4 of the crop at Arkansas, doesn't sound like they've lost all connection to Texas recruits.
Do you talk just to hear yourself sometimes?
OSU has a huge chunk of Texas players. Big deal, there are tons of them around. Arkansas getting everyone out of Texas, that doesn't make a BigXII school. It's about recruiting power, they lost it. Back in the day, they could dominate the Longhorns with Texas players, for years. They aren't capable of that now.
Pick a side Gomer, SEC good, or SEC bad. I say SEC good, Arkansas never to be competitive in that conference.
There's fairly good parity in the SEC west. The east is dominated by Florida, Tennessee, and Georgia. Florida produces every bit as good of football recruits as Texas. Hell yes SEC is a good conference: Georgia, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Alabama, Arkansas, etc. Arkansas has been just about as competitive as anyone else from the west division.
Now yer just makin' noise, first Texas recruits are important, eh no everyone has 'em:
FWIW- Arkansas has only played Texas three times in the last 8 or so seasons and beat them twice, one of those being in the Cotton Bowl. So much for not being able to keep up w/ Texas in recent history.
They don't suck near as much as you make them out to. They have become a perennial 8-4/7-5 team playing some of the best teams in the country. When a team is getting 1/4 of their players from Texas in light of your comments you are just sitting around making fallacious arguments.
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
They don't suck near as much as you make them out to. They have become a perennial 8-4/7-5 team playing some of the best teams in the country. When a team is getting 1/4 of their players from Texas in light of your comments you are just sitting around making fallacious arguments.
Again pick a side Gomer.
If you're going to sit here and tell me there has been one single team out of Arkansas that was as good as the old SWC Arkansas teams, you'd be a god damn liar. And you could stop being an insulting dipSh!t about it too.
Nobody said anything to you, and you have to be an donkey#ole. Fantastic.
Nothing against Arkansas, I like them, they aren't recruiting the players they were recruiting out of Texas.
This is even more true in Basketball
quote:
Originally posted by swake
This is even more true in Basketball
It's pretty well known, except for apparently these guys. I don't even understand where they're coming from.
Recruiting is about who you play, and whether or not you're a "big-name" contender. When Arkansas was playing all the Texas teams in conference, they competed directly with those schools. When Arkansas left, yeah they got regional leftovers, but the strength of their recruiting base shifted towards already heavily recruited SEC states. "Alabama didn't recruit me, maybe I'll try Kentucky, teach them a lesson."
Seems self-explanatory. Maybe not to a novice, but damn, I thought there were some college football fans in here.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
They don't suck near as much as you make them out to. They have become a perennial 8-4/7-5 team playing some of the best teams in the country. When a team is getting 1/4 of their players from Texas in light of your comments you are just sitting around making fallacious arguments.
Again pick a side Gomer.
If you're going to sit here and tell me there has been one single team out of Arkansas that was as good as the old SWC Arkansas teams, you'd be a god damn liar. And you could stop being an insulting dipSh!t about it too.
Nobody said anything to you, and you have to be an donkey#ole. Fantastic.
Nothing against Arkansas, I like them, they aren't recruiting the players they were recruiting out of Texas.
This is even more true in Basketball
Neptune you are a pathetic, sniveling, doesn't know-it-all dip-****.
People call you out on your crap and you pull the liar card. Real class, buddy.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Neptune you are a pathetic, sniveling, doesn't know-it-all dip-****.
People call you out on your crap and you pull the liar card. Real class, buddy.
Oh, nevermind.
edited
quote:
Originally posted by swake
This is even more true in Basketball
Only true if you dismiss back to back trips to the NCAA final with a national championship in '94.
Arkansas biggest problem with hoops is no more Nolan Richardson. He had almost four hundred wins at Arkansas, most of them after Arkansas went to the SEC.
I hate to piss off any Houston Nutt fans, but it's not simply a talent and depth problem at Arkansas.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
This is even more true in Basketball
Wiki's got some interesting stuff on Arkansas, SWC, SEC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Conference#Conference_men.27s_basketball_regular-season_champions
Pre-SEC conference Championships: 1936, 1946*, 1954, 1959*, 1960, 1961*, 1964, 1965, 1968*, 1975*, 1979*, 1988, 1989. Longest Drought, 10 years, between 36 and 46. From 36 to 89, 13 in 53 years. Average: Nearly 1 every 4 years.
SEC Championships: None. 15 years.
Pre-SEC conference champs: 1926, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1935*, 1936, 1938, 1941, 1942*, 1944*, 1949*, 1950*, 1958*, 1977, 1978*, 1979*, 1981, 1982, 1989, 1990, 1991: 22 in 70 years.
SEC Basketball Champs: 2000, 1 in 14 years, (a ratio of 5 to 70).
Maybe, if your inclined to the delusional, Arkansas has never had a bad coach before they reached the SEC. Hopefully that's not a Baylor sign. One of those, "you're the Conference stooge, you aren't getting a good coach. Top of the world, to conference lowlifes." Could be. It's probably not quite that bad. But a simple coaching problem, doesn't explain it.
I remember when Baylor was solid, and SMU was good. Ponies, Porsches, Probation. SWC automatic bid to the Cotton Bowl. Football fans remember when Arkansas was the only team worth anything in the SWC, and Texas stuggled for second or third. The Big XII saved Texas from going down the tubes.
Arkansas will never have that advantage again. They jumped too quick, can't blame them, the SWC was sinking, but they'd be better off in the BigXII, and the BigXII would be better off with Arkansas instead of Baylor. Going head to head with the Texas and Oklahoma squads, instead of picking up leftovers.
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
quote:
Originally posted by swake
This is even more true in Basketball
Wiki's got some interesting stuff on Arkansas, SWC, SEC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Conference#Conference_men.27s_basketball_regular-season_champions
Pre-SEC conference Championships: 1936, 1946*, 1954, 1959*, 1960, 1961*, 1964, 1965, 1968*, 1975*, 1979*, 1988, 1989. Longest Drought, 10 years, between 36 and 46. From 36 to 89, 13 in 53 years. Average: Nearly 1 every 4 years.
SEC Championships: None. 15 years.
Pre-SEC conference champs: 1926, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1935*, 1936, 1938, 1941, 1942*, 1944*, 1949*, 1950*, 1958*, 1977, 1978*, 1979*, 1981, 1982, 1989, 1990, 1991: 22 in 70 years.
SEC Basketball Champs: 2000, 1 in 14 years, (a ratio of 5 to 70).
Maybe, if your inclined to the delusional, Arkansas has never had a bad coach before they reached the SEC. Hopefully that's not a Baylor sign. One of those, "you're the Conference stooge, you aren't getting a good coach. Top of the world, to conference lowlifes." Could be. It's probably not quite that bad. But a simple coaching problem, doesn't explain it.
I remember when Baylor was solid, and SMU was good. Ponies, Porsches, Probation. SWC automatic bid to the Cotton Bowl. Football fans remember when Arkansas was the only team worth anything in the SWC, and Texas stuggled for second or third. The Big XII saved Texas from going down the tubes.
Arkansas will never have that advantage again. They jumped too quick, can't blame them, the SWC was sinking, but they'd be better off in the BigXII, and the BigXII would be better off with Arkansas instead of Baylor. Going head to head with the Texas and Oklahoma squads, instead of picking up leftovers.
Its been a long time. Did Arkansas voluntarily choose the SEC or was the invitation to the Big12 not extended to them? Culturally they are probably a better fit for the SEC anyway aren't they? I think of Ark as more Southern and Texas as more Southwestern.
And BTW, maybe if OU wasn't getting so many Texas recruits, we could get the local boys going to Kansas!
Waterboy,
Broyles set the whole deal in motion as I remember and that set off a chain reaction throughout the conferences. I don't recall the exact reason for the change, might have been better revenue-sharing, maybe wanting to aim higher and have more quality opponents in their conference. I really can't say for sure.
It's a business. It's not all about the wins, it's also about bringing in revenue to the University.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Its been a long time. Did Arkansas voluntarily choose the SEC or was the invitation to the Big12 not extended to them? Culturally they are probably a better fit for the SEC anyway aren't they? I think of Ark as more Southern and Texas as more Southwestern.
And BTW, maybe if OU wasn't getting so many Texas recruits, we could get the local boys going to Kansas!
BigXII expansion happened a few years after SEC expansion.
You mentioned Kansas. Have you seen the quality of player Nebraska has? It's not close. That's what happens when you lose a rivalry, and add others. Yeah coaching has something to do with it, but their squad isn't even in the neighborhood, at pretty much every position.
If you lived in Nebraska, yeah you probably want to go to Nebraska. But your only serious rivalry was OU, and you only play them every 3rd and 4th year. You're no longer competing directly with them. You suffer a down season, who are you competing against? Iowa State, Mizzou, Kansas? And the memories of Nebraska being a good team, are about as old as memories of Kansas State or Colorado being a good team. OU vs Nebraska used to be a big deal, it's nothing now.
That domination, that used to be Nebraska, it ain't coming back. They'll be good again, sometime. But they'll never have the edge they had in the Big8.
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Its been a long time. Did Arkansas voluntarily choose the SEC or was the invitation to the Big12 not extended to them? Culturally they are probably a better fit for the SEC anyway aren't they? I think of Ark as more Southern and Texas as more Southwestern.
And BTW, maybe if OU wasn't getting so many Texas recruits, we could get the local boys going to Kansas!
BigXII expansion happened a few years after SEC expansion.
You mentioned Kansas. Have you seen the quality of player Nebraska has? It's not close. That's what happens when you lose a rivalry, and add others. Yeah coaching has something to do with it, but their squad isn't even in the neighborhood, at pretty much every position.
If you lived in Nebraska, yeah you probably want to go to Nebraska. But your only serious rivalry was OU, and you only play them every 3rd and 4th year. You're no longer competing directly with them. You suffer a down season, who are you competing against? Iowa State, Mizzou, Kansas? And the memories of Nebraska being a good team, are about as old as memories of Kansas State or Colorado being a good team. OU vs Nebraska used to be a big deal, it's nothing now.
That domination, that used to be Nebraska, it ain't coming back. They'll be good again, sometime. But they'll never have the edge they had in the Big8.
Yeh, I remember hearing those words several times about the OU program over the last 45 years. Too bad no one is ever held accountable for them. I'm not a fooball fanatic but I do love history and watching human nature. Here's my take.
"No one will ever replace Wilkinson. No young person wants to go to boring Norman to play football in a has been program. Texas will get all the best recruits since they dominate in the series. Wishbone players don't make it in the NFL. Switzer killed recruiting with his gun slinger attitude. Probation will kill the Sooners program just like it did SMU. No coach can survive losing to Texas and Nebraska in the same year. The Big 12 can't compete with the coasts." Ad nauseum. Yet through some mysterious process, the OU program survived and prospered. Others do too. Maybe...coaching? Maybe...recruiting? Maybe...alumni support? High expectations from competent AD's? Maybe...some intangible that Boise State, TU and other small colleges seem to have found as well?
Tell me, great football swami, is Notre Dame doomed to the same dismal future as Nebraska? Many of the same ingredients for failure are there. Are Alabama and Miami doomed as well? I just can't buy that tradition rich, well endowed and supported programs are just going to fade away because their conference weakens or a rivalry fades. Georgia comes and goes. Auburn and Bama too. We're all going to start loving Nascar and West Coast ballet football because the polls tell us to? They'll be back.
No, these programs have stadiums to fill, salaries to pay and alumni to satisfy and they will come back.
Nope, Notre Dame, Alabama, Miami, all fine. Though there's been questions about the Miami program for some time, mainly that they peaked in the 80's (sort of like K-State in late 90's or Colorado in the late 80's/early 90's) and they won't be back too soon.
Yeah it's cyclical. And teams come in go. Nebraska and OU have been, during the Big8, extremely resistant to cycles. Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, and with a few exceptions Colorado, all class clowns. Remember K-State's 30 game losing streak? They tore the freaking goal posts down when they finally beat Columbia (I think that was the school, maybe Citadel).
The OU vs SMU comparison is just plain wrong. SMU is a private, old poisoned pill of the SWC. Maybe, in several decades, SMU will reach that level again. OU lost the Nebraska rivalry in the BigXII expansion, but gained 3 Texas Teams including the other two big state schools. OU lost nothing. SMU lost every hope it had when the SWC broke up.
Did you ever hear the rumor about the BigXII wanting to make Nebraska vs OU a "special" every-year game? Not that it will happen.
Nebraska will be good again. Nebraska will win the BigXII championship again.
They'll never have the edge they had in the Big8. From a money standpoint they're fine, but Expansion is not an "everyone wins" scenario from a recruiting standpoint.
Also, during Expansion, the edge you lose goes to your rivals. In Nebraska's case, their rivals are Kansas, Mizzou, K-State, Colorado, and Iowa State.
Even though all 5 were doormats for most of the Big8, all 5 have improved in the BigXII. Even lowly Iowa State, which really has a competitive disadvantage to the Big10, has shown some signs of strength the last 12 years.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Waterboy,
Broyles set the whole deal in motion as I remember and that set off a chain reaction throughout the conferences. I don't recall the exact reason for the change, might have been better revenue-sharing, maybe wanting to aim higher and have more quality opponents in their conference. I really can't say for sure.
The SWC was crumbling. SMU's death penalty was a killer for the conference. SMU was a historic conference powerhouse, and it hurt the SWC bad to lose them. All the Texas teams were milling about aimlessly, Arkansas was the only good squad in the Conference. The SWC was no longer competitive.
The SEC on the other hand, got permission from NCAA to expand by 2 teams and to have a Championship game. They signed up South Carolina and Arkansas.
That was the final nail in the SWC coffin. Losing Arkansas meant that the Texas, A&M, and Tech, only had each other and a handful of private schools to recruit against. Private schools, unless they're a big name (like Notre Dame or the historic SMU), can't compete with big state schools regularly. The cost is too high to have "walk on" depth.
SMU still has no identity. Their SWC identity, and their recruiting base, came from the fact that they played the big Texas state schools. It's not coming back because they play no names, the prime recruits that can't make the Big XII Texas squads, head north of the Red River. SMU usually gets second and third tier players, from it's own state.
I can't think of another program that had such a big fall from grace and has never recovered the likes of what's happened at SMU. What was it, around '87 or so when they gave them the lethal injection? They went from perennial contender to chronic door mat.
Man, they were "the" team in the early to mid '80's. It was one of the colleges I considered attending. Not due to football so much, but that certainly helped spread the word about the institution.
Yeah, somewhere around there, 86, 87, or 88. It was terrible, but SMU unfortunately did everything they could to deserve it.
Had that not happened, the SWC might be around today. Or, maybe the Mustangs would have been brought into the BigXII instead of Baylor.
Things like continuing to pay players while on probation and blatantly lying about it gets the fecal matter to contact the oscillating cooling device at the NCAA.
Damn shame, seems like I heard or read at one time that they either had the most successful I-A record in the nation between '80 or so and '85 or one of the top three records in I-A.
I believe SMU won a National Championship somewhere in there.
Won't be happening again anytime soon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I-A_national_football_championship#By_year
1982, shared it with Penn State.
Did you guys see Oregon fall last night?
I think that'll make Kansas #2, unless they're hopped.
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
Did you guys see Oregon fall last night?
I think that'll make Kansas #2, unless they're hopped.
The idea of Kansas playing for a national championship wouldn't have crossed anyone's mind at the beginning of the season. I'm not sure they'd want to move into #2 at this point, what's that make, five #2 teams who have been beaten now. The World was referring to it as a "curse".
I really don't see OU losing to Tech, though OSU loves to screw up OU's title hopes. Should be an interesting scramble the next couple of weeks with the top teams.
If KU could pull off a national championship, I wouldn't be the least disappointed. Hell, I might even send a truckload of beef to Mark Mangino.
Looks like OSU's Adarius Bowman is out for the Baylor and OU games, questionable for a bowl game. OSU probably has enough raw talent at WR to continue moving the ball on Baylor (if not, they won't have to worry about a bowl game). Maybe not enough experienced depth at WR to stay competitive against OU.
What were the pollsters thinking? Or smoking? Oregon was #2 in fantasy land. Their defense was porous and their offense was hapless without their quarterback. How's that for balance? Honestly, the polling this year is more suspect than usual. Might as well contract it out to American Idol.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
What were the pollsters thinking? Or smoking? Oregon was #2 in fantasy land. Their defense was porous and their offense was hapless without their quarterback. How's that for balance? Honestly, the polling this year is more suspect than usual. Might as well contract it out to American Idol.
Congratulations Waterboy, you are the honored recipient of the coveted "Coffee-Spitting Laugh Of The Day" award.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
What were the pollsters thinking? Or smoking? Oregon was #2 in fantasy land. Their defense was porous and their offense was hapless without their quarterback. How's that for balance? Honestly, the polling this year is more suspect than usual. Might as well contract it out to American Idol.
Congratulations Waterboy, you are the honored recipient of the coveted "Coffee-Spitting Laugh Of The Day" award.
Thank you very much. Not as good as your "crack" on another thread however.[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
Did you guys see Oregon fall last night?
I think that'll make Kansas #2, unless they're hopped.
My guess is OU will be moving into the #2 slot.
Saying that, KU and/or MU is better than OU but we will have to wait till the Big 12 Championship Game before that becomes a factor.
Tenn will beat LSU, so I'm looking for a Tenn vs KU or MU NCAA Championship Game.
Even though I'm a KU fan, the KU vs MU game will be a toss up. Whoever wins that game will go on to be the National Champ. My money is on KU....
[;)]
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Originally posted by Porky
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Originally posted by Neptune
Did you guys see Oregon fall last night?
I think that'll make Kansas #2, unless they're hopped.
My guess is OU will be moving into the #2 slot.
Saying that, KU and/or MU is better than OU but we will have to wait till the Big 12 Championship Game before that becomes a factor.
Tenn will beat LSU, so I'm looking for a Tenn vs KU or MU NCAA Championship Game.
Even though I'm a KU fan, the KU vs MU game will be a toss up. Whoever wins that game will go on to be the National Champ. My money is on KU....
[;)]
Speculation aside, you might note that MU was beaten pretty handily by OU. How can you say that MU is better? Even if MU beats KU, judging by media bias towards coastal conferences, its doubtful they will go to the BS/BCS championship game with a loss to OU. And if OU loses either of their last two conference games, whoever they beat during the season drops a few notches. I wouldn't pin my hopes on MU.
Well, let's see. Now that OU lost to Tech...
If OU beats OSU, OU wins the South.
If OU loses to OSU, and Texas beats A&M, Texas wins the South.
If OU loses to OSU, and Texas loses to A&M, OSU/OU/Texas all tie for the South. I believe OU would go to the BigXII Championship, but I'm not 100% certain, might be Texas because the first eliminator (head to head) eliminates no one.
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What were the pollsters thinking? Or smoking? Oregon was #2 in fantasy land. Their defense was porous and their offense was hapless without their quarterback. How's that for balance? Honestly, the polling this year is more suspect than usual. Might as well contract it out to American Idol.
Kind of like Oklahoma at number 4?
The PAC10 is cresting, on the downside of an up cycle. Can't blame the pollsters. Until the PAC10 implodes, which it is currently in the process of doing, it's a powerful conference. The BigXII is still slightly down, moving up. A Mizzou or Kansas sweep to end the year puts the BigXII on top.
PS: Sorry about Bradford. But chin up, I do think Halzle (however you spell it) will be solid and well prepared for OSU next week, should Bradford be unable to return.
I think your formula is correct Neptune. OSU is a good team, it'll be interesting to see if OU can come back next week and beat them.
KU looked great yesterday but they'll have to get off that penalty nonsense they did in the first half if they wish to beat MU next weekend.
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Originally posted by Breadburner
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Originally posted by Neptune
Bradford is impressive at home, and against teams like Baylor. It's on the road that he suffers, like when OU beat lowly Iowa State 17-7, or when they lost to Colorado.
I think they'll make it through the next two games, not sure. Tech and OSU are not at their best right now defensively, OSU fields the more conventional defense of the two. But it's pretty young, lacks depth.
But Bradford's a little bit of a pocket passer. That's only good if you have a pocket. And the O is designed to give Bradford the easy stuff, to keep Bradford out of trouble. He makes mistakes if he has to think or improvise. I'm sure Tech, OSU, and eventually Kansas or Mizzou, have all taken notice. And I'd expect somebody to tee-off on him.
That's what happened to Hybl a few years ago. Except Hybl was smarter, had a better arm, and was maybe a little less mobile. The later in the season in got, the less likely OU was to win. Teams figured out that Hybl was as about as much of a runner as FDR.
It helps if you actually watch football games before you comment on the players......
It helps to be a football fan, instead of an OU Homer.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=188934
OU at Tulsa Bradford: 3 TDs 1 INT
OU at Colorado Bradford: 1 TD 2 INTs
OU at Texas Bradford: 3 TDs 0 INTs
OU at Iowa State: 0 TDs 1 INT
OU at Texas Tech: 0/0 Concussion
Bradford 5 road games: 7 TDs 4 INTs
Bradford 6 (1 remaining) home games: 21 TDs 2 INTs
Non-Conference (4 games): 14 TDs 2 INTs
Big XII (7 of 8 played): 14 TDs 4 INTs
BigXII on the road: 4 TDs 3 INTsBigXII at home: 10 TDs 1 INT
If you count Texas and Tulsa as road games, Bradford is inconsistent on the road. If they don't count as road games, Bradford has performed poorly on the road.
Though maybe you're not arguing home field advantage, and the poor performance of OU away. Maybe you're arguing Bradford's mobility, which you might not see how right I am about that, until next year. Unless he comes back soon.
LSU knocked off.
Texas loses to A&M. They announced during the final seconds of the game that the only way Texas can play in the BigXII Championship is if: OSU beats OU, and (because of the three-way tie) beats them bad enough to where Texas outranks OU in the final BCS Poll.
Neither of which is likely to happen. Bradford's back. Halzle will be prepared. I like OU's odds to win.
LSU didn't see Arkansas coming and I don't think anyone expected OSU to get dismantled like that after OU blew it last week.
Big win for Arkansas, yet ESPN lists Houston Nutt as one of the coaches "On the hot seat". Maybe the boosters are finally tired of 11 seasons of 8-4/7-5.
I actually kind of saw that OSU blow-out coming. OSU's defense is probably the weakest it's been in a long time. And that's saying something, OSU has had a few weak defenses. OSU's offense had to score on basically every possession to keep it competitive.
I was happy with OSU's performance though, overall. The D even though they were overpowered had some interesting moments, and the O ran up and down the field most of the day. They just couldn't score.
I thought it was interesting that OU went to more of a power game. Not sure what that was about. Maybe nothing, maybe something is not quite right.
Now OSU waits on it's bowl, and OU gets to try and beat Mizzou a second time. If I were an OU fan, I would much rather being playing Kansas next week. Always tougher to beat a team the second time around. And right now, if pressed, I'd have to give Mizzou the edge. Especially since it's not in Norman.
Fingers crossed for Kansas getting an at-large, praying for a Hawaii victory over the Huskies, and kudos to McFadden.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/bowls/predictions
CBS Sportsline predicts;
OSU vs Indiana in the Insight Bowl (OSU is allergic to all Big10 teams)
OU vs Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl (assumes Mizzou beating OU)
I was surprised the final score with OU/OSU was so lop-sided at the end. I was running around town and listening to the half-time report on the radio, the offensive stats in the first half were damn close, OSU just couldn't score.
I'm real curious to see what happens this Saturday. If OU stuffs Mizzou, where's that going to put them in the BCS? I think their title shot is long-gone, WV plays Pittsburgh (4-7), but all the top teams have seen stunning upsets this year. I really don't care to see Ohio State in the championship game again this year.
Who would have thought after Mizzou lost to OU they'd be sitting atop the BCS going into the Big XII championship game??????
OU would get an automatic BCS bowl bid if they beat Mizzou, but they're too far gone for the BCS Championship. OU has to jump 7 teams. Odds are, if Mizzou loses, Kansas would get a BCS at large and Mizzou wouldn't make a BCS bowl.
Ohio State, Georgia, and Kansas, have no more regular season games.
Ohio State is a lock if either Mizzou or West Virginia loses. If both Mizzou and West Virginia somehow lose, it's mostly likely 2-loss Georgia vs Ohio State. Kansas would have an extremely outside chance. Though Kansas needs Mizzou to lose to OU in the most impressively close way possible. They need the voting polls to have a very good reason to bump Kansas ahead of Georgia.