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Talk About Tulsa => Other Tulsa Discussion => Topic started by: pfox on September 21, 2007, 11:51:03 AM

Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: pfox on September 21, 2007, 11:51:03 AM
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/54/richlist07_George-Kaiser_OXNB.html

Net Worth $11.0 billion   Source BOK Financial (quote: BOKF), Oil/Gas, Self made


Age 65
Marital Status Married, 3 children
 Hometown Tulsa, OK, United States
Education Harvard University, Bachelor of Arts / Science
Harvard University, Master of Business Administration


Family fled Nazi Germany 1938, settled in Oklahoma. Parents developed oil and gas business. Took over 1969; expanded into real estate, banking, derivatives. Today Kaiser-Francis produces 12 million barrels of oil and natural gas equivalents annually. Owns 45 million shares of BOK Financial worth $2.3 billion. Also runs liquefied natural gas outfit Excelerate Energy; has invested more than $1 billion in LNG ships and terminals over past few years. Fights childhood poverty through George Kaiser Family Foundation; pledged $60 million to redevelop a blighted community alongside a 42-mile stretch of Arkansas River.

Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: pfox on September 21, 2007, 11:53:12 AM
Undoubtedly, this profile was written by some intern for the magazine.  Good lord.[B)]
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Conan71 on September 21, 2007, 12:04:57 PM
So his gift to the river works out to be 1% of his net worth.  If we don't pass this tax package, I'm sure he can find it in his heart to contribute more later, I don't think he's going to run out of cash anytime soon.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: sgrizzle on September 21, 2007, 12:19:42 PM
For those who think the river is fine the way it is... Forbes disagrees.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Conan71 on September 21, 2007, 12:21:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

For those who think the river is fine the way it is... Forbes disagrees.



I'll agree with Forbes when they take that gun away from my head.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Chicken Little on September 21, 2007, 12:45:15 PM
Davaz is working for Forbes?
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: YoungTulsan on September 21, 2007, 12:58:25 PM
I recall last years list had him worth 8.something billion.  So he's worth more than 2 billion more than a year ago.   Nice year for him!

These theoretical net worths are kind of silly though.  Bill Gates doesnt have 60 billion, and it would be almost unphathomable for him to cash all of that out (I think Buffet is actually doing this, and it is over a period of many years to actually cash in his investments)

But Gates' paper fortune will jump up and down from 40 billion to 80 billion based on the markets.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: inteller on September 21, 2007, 03:40:10 PM
SO to say the least....a 117 million bucks isn't going to hit his bottom line whether the public votes yes or no.  He should donate the money either way.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Townsend on September 21, 2007, 04:21:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by inteller

SO to say the least....a 117 million bucks isn't going to hit his bottom line whether the public votes yes or no.  He should donate the money either way.



Much of that money isn't his.  I'm sure the money being gifted is an investment.  Increased business due to betterment of the river.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Tony on September 21, 2007, 04:43:53 PM
The 117 million is chump change , offered through Kaisers charitable arm-- the same arm lowers his tax bracket one for one for every dime he "gifts" - and the only reason it is a one time only or else offer -- is that it will be a different sum offer the next go around -- this 117 million helps KAISER this tax season -- not next.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Townsend on September 21, 2007, 05:01:10 PM
Their money, their choice.  

If it's a tax break at least it's good for me.  Most of the wealthy person's tax breaks aren't doing dingus for me.  

Yes, dingus.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: guido911 on September 22, 2007, 07:23:21 PM
Conan: "So his gift to the river works out to be 1% of his net worth."

What a cheapskate
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: RecycleMichael on September 22, 2007, 07:59:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend

Their money, their choice.  

If it's a tax break at least it's good for me.  Most of the wealthy person's tax breaks aren't doing dingus for me.  

Yes, dingus.



That is a very good point. I think I sense some resentment because some people think that he is not giving enough or shouldn't follow the tax rules.

I am guessing he is giving more money than any single gift in the history of this town. I also don't know many philanthropists who don't know the tax implications of their giving.

The Kaiser Foundation has many other causes it supports. The bank also has an entire lending arm for supporting needed areas of our community.

We only have one guy this rich in our town and only three billionaires in our whole state. He is keeping that money local and is probably putting up more than the combined annual salaries of the 1,800 TulsaNow members.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: TheArtist on September 23, 2007, 09:32:58 AM
To a lot of people from larger, wealthier communities, and apparently some from Forbes lol, Tulsa really does look like a small, poor, blighted community.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: RuralDweller on September 23, 2007, 12:49:10 PM
quote:
To a lot of people from larger, wealthier communities, and apparently some from Forbes lol, Tulsa really does look like a small, poor, blighted community.


Truthfully, it's no surprise that those from outside this community who drive into it, think it is a blighted community.  Other than cleaning up (somewhat) this year for the PGA, a typical drive into this city in the summer shows overgrown right-of-ways, dilapidated and defunct businesses, roads that will literally destroy the front-end on your vehicle, etc.  

Maybe it's time we took care of the basics first.  Once we get our roads & infrastructure beefed up, may then we can think about frills such as the river, etc.  I find it curious that a large segment of the voting populace thinks it's OK to mount a tax for river improvements while the infrastructure of this city is quite literally falling apart.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Tulsa4Life on September 23, 2007, 05:21:05 PM
And I come from the other point of view that this is more than just frills!  As I see it we need to be willing to invest in our central tax base and then infrastructure problems will be addressed by this larger tax base.  Shouldn't our tax base be able to sustain the road repairs for the most part?
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: perspicuity85 on September 24, 2007, 02:34:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by RuralDweller
Truthfully, it's no surprise that those from outside this community who drive into it, think it is a blighted community.  Other than cleaning up (somewhat) this year for the PGA, a typical drive into this city in the summer shows overgrown right-of-ways, dilapidated and defunct businesses, roads that will literally destroy the front-end on your vehicle, etc.  

Maybe it's time we took care of the basics first.  Once we get our roads & infrastructure beefed up, may then we can think about frills such as the river, etc.  I find it curious that a large segment of the voting populace thinks it's OK to mount a tax for river improvements while the infrastructure of this city is quite literally falling apart.




We do take care of the basics.  Didn't a large bond dedicated to street improvements pass through the city council recently?  The river improvements attract people like me who will soon be looking for a vibrant urban environment.  I'm a senior level college student working on a double major, and I view the river improvements as support for the urban core of Tulsa.  It is necessary for cities to invest in their urban core and cultural infrastructure in order to increase their tax base.  Young professionals aren't going to drive around looking for potholes on your streets, they're going to look for an attractive culture and lifestyle.  Supporting the river improvements is an indirect investment in Tulsa's physical infrastructure.  If people like me move to Tulsa, the city increases its tax base for physical infrastructure improvements.  If I live in the urban core, I will be driving on much less of Tulsa's city streets on a day-to-day basis.  I can assure everyone on this forum, lifestyle and culture are extremely important issues for young professionals.  Cities compete for residents in today's society.  Tulsa is already behind many other cities in the US in developing a competitive advantage.  The only reason I am looking at Tulsa as a potential place to live is the fact that I'm a native Tulsan and am aware of what the city has to offer.  Most people at nearby state universities are not aware of Tulsa's cultural infrastructure.  The river improvements, along with the midtown districts, and downtown are the core of the city that should be developed and marketed effectively to young professionals.  By not investing in the urban core, the city will only accelerate suburban sprawl, and further exhaust the infrastructure budget for the city and county.  Within the city limits, the population has decreased by about 6,000, while the metro area grows at a healthy pace.  The river improvements have a good chance of increasing demand for entertainment, recreation, and housing near the river, and relocation to the entire Tulsa metro area.

Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 24, 2007, 08:40:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tony

The 117 million is chump change , offered through Kaisers charitable arm-- the same arm lowers his tax bracket one for one for every dime he "gifts" - and the only reason it is a one time only or else offer -- is that it will be a different sum offer the next go around -- this 117 million helps KAISER this tax season -- not next.



You are eligible for the same tax advantages.  In fact, if you were to donate all of your money you would pay no taxes at all.  Amazing!

The highest federal tax bracket is 36%.  So, at best, each dollar given away is really only an opportunity cost of 64 cents.  So instead of 117, he is only giving away $75million. What a bastard.  What's more, its only 1% of his total net worth.  The nerve.

What percent of your net worth did you give to the city this year?

Hate the tax if you want, but if someone wants to give the city a hundred million I'm game.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Double A on September 24, 2007, 12:02:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tulsa4Life

And I come from the other point of view that this is more than just frills!  As I see it we need to be willing to invest in our central tax base and then infrastructure problems will be addressed by this larger tax base.  Shouldn't our tax base be able to sustain the road repairs for the most part?

We got the same load of crap about Vision 2025. Look, we've already done pedestrian bridges, low water dams, and gathering places(amphitheater) in hopes it would spur river development. How'd that work out? Let's see, we have the poorly designed high maintenance Zink dam and pedestrian bridge and an amphitheater that goes largely unused. Let's do it again. How transformational.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: carltonplace on September 24, 2007, 12:52:04 PM
Your logic seems to be: "We already have things at the river and they never worked or aren't utilized so why bother trying anything new?"

I don't know where you got the information that Zink dam is high maintenance. The pedestrian bridge gets tons of use (sometimes it's so busy it's dangerous with bikes, runners, pet walkers, families, photo opportunists, sight seers and fishermen all vying for the same space) and the floating stage has events all of the time which is surprising considering that the design is poor.

A commercial development at 21st and Jackson where the cement company is would increase need and use for a west bank venue. The current floating stage makes it cumbersome to load equipment and get performers safely on and off the stage. I'm not saying it must be replaced, but the current configuration isn't act friendly.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: swake on September 24, 2007, 01:06:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Tulsa4Life

And I come from the other point of view that this is more than just frills!  As I see it we need to be willing to invest in our central tax base and then infrastructure problems will be addressed by this larger tax base.  Shouldn't our tax base be able to sustain the road repairs for the most part?

We got the same load of crap about Vision 2025. Look, we've already done pedestrian bridges, low water dams, and gathering places(amphitheater) in hopes it would spur river development. How'd that work out? Let's see, we have the poorly designed high maintenance Zink dam and pedestrian bridge and an amphitheater that goes largely unused. Let's do it again. How transformational.



We got what we paid for. Tulsa rejected a tax for the river so then Mayor Inhofe sold the land on the west bank to the concrete company to finance the dam, so it was done on the cheap. There's not a lot of development due to the lack of land and due to the public at the time not wanting development. The Amphitheater was well used for years, it's just in need of an overhaul.

You talk like Riverparks is some huge disaster, when in most people's minds it's a great asset for the city that we need to do more with.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Double A on September 24, 2007, 08:43:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace

Your logic seems to be: "We already have things at the river and they never worked or aren't utilized so why bother trying anything new?"

I don't know where you got the information that Zink dam is high maintenance. The pedestrian bridge gets tons of use (sometimes it's so busy it's dangerous with bikes, runners, pet walkers, families, photo opportunists, sight seers and fishermen all vying for the same space) and the floating stage has events all of the time which is surprising considering that the design is poor.

A commercial development at 21st and Jackson where the cement company is would increase need and use for a west bank venue. The current floating stage makes it cumbersome to load equipment and get performers safely on and off the stage. I'm not saying it must be replaced, but the current configuration isn't act friendly.

I wouldn't be questioning the logic of it if we were in fact trying something new. Beautiful view of the expanding Sinclair refinery, a real destination. Prime commercial location indeed. How's that environmental study the city is doing to determine what enviromental remediation will be needed to make this property viable?
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Vision 2025 on September 27, 2007, 04:34:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by guido911

Conan: "So his gift to the river works out to be 1% of his net worth."

What a cheapskate

And just what have you offered 1% of your net worth to accomplish for the community?

Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Double A on September 27, 2007, 10:40:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025

quote:
Originally posted by guido911

Conan: "So his gift to the river works out to be 1% of his net worth."

What a cheapskate

And just what have you offered 1% of your net worth to accomplish for the community?





How about paying your salary? Last time I checked, V2025 was a taxpayer funded program.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 28, 2007, 09:30:49 AM
You donated 1% of your net worth to pay for the Vision 2025 directors salary?  Wow, thanks.  I had no idea.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: sgrizzle on September 28, 2007, 10:13:22 AM
At best guess I give closer to 0.1% of my salary to vision2025.

I'm a dollar-menu-naire
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: RecycleMichael on September 28, 2007, 10:22:09 AM
1% of your net worth...not your salary.

Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Townsend on September 28, 2007, 10:38:58 AM
Great googaly moogaly, I'm worth $45 million!..

or $4.50 according to the source you choose to accept.


http://soundmedicine.iu.edu/archive/2003/quiz/humanWorth.html
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: RecycleMichael on September 28, 2007, 10:44:33 AM
I want to sell off some body parts, but I found out that I am prohibited from listing them on E-Bay.

Then I tried to donate them to science, but they were not interested either.

I guess I will have to donate them to science fiction.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 28, 2007, 12:30:45 PM
You're only worth $45mil?  I'm priceless, my mommy told me so.  [}:)]
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: sgrizzle on September 28, 2007, 12:35:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael

1% of your net worth...not your salary.



Oh, then I just gave about 1% of my net worth to El Guapo.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: RecycleMichael on September 28, 2007, 01:42:17 PM
You drank some of his $45 shots of tequila?

Wow, grizzle...I gotta party with you.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: FOTD on September 28, 2007, 03:09:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael

quote:
Originally posted by Townsend

Their money, their choice.  

If it's a tax break at least it's good for me.  Most of the wealthy person's tax breaks aren't doing dingus for me.  

Yes, dingus.





That is a very good point. I think I sense some resentment because some people think that he is not giving enough or shouldn't follow the tax rules.

I am guessing he is giving more money than any single gift in the history of this town. I also don't know many philanthropists who don't know the tax implications of their giving.

The Kaiser Foundation has many other causes it supports. The bank also has an entire lending arm for supporting needed areas of our community.

We only have one guy this rich in our town and only three billionaires in our whole state. He is keeping that money local and is probably putting up more than the combined annual salaries of the 1,800 TulsaNow members.



Ditto
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: Sangria on October 01, 2007, 02:53:11 PM
Uh, he also has a lot to gain if the tax passes.

He has more to gain than anyone. Once we pay - he and his cronies will decide what to do with the money and how it is spent.

We are not only using county tax income for a city project - but we are allowing a private party to handle it.

Oh, and then the city will hit you with a tax to fix the streets.

You saw the commercials.... they are already fixing the streets to the arena, if Tulsa is so broke, then where else will the street money for Riverside and westside come from?
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: FOTD on October 01, 2007, 03:40:37 PM
Major Bond issue on streets?

Why don't they show us the agenda so we can see the big picture that the one's in control are planning for us.

Dislosure of the street plan might hurt the chances of a river deal passing.....
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: carltonplace on October 02, 2007, 10:25:20 AM
The river and the streets are seperate issues. Everyone opposed to the proposed river development is suddenly so emotional about the state of the streets (I agree we need to fix our streets) but where were they before this proposal was put forward? There was no big stink about streets, no talk about adding a 4th Penney city sales tax or fuel tax to fix them. The vote no contigent acts like it's one or the other, river or streets but I bet if the city asked the voters for funding we'd hear a huge outcry to do some other thing first.

Guess where the biggest back log of street needs is? It's not in South Tulsa folks. Its in Midtown, Downtown, West Tulsa and parts of North and East Tulsa; The oldest areas. Harvard, Yale, Peoria, Lewis, Denver, Riverside and in the old residential areas. The largest group of Vote No people are suburbanites and South Tulsa folks that don't even use these streets. The street people also think that the city has some control over the highway system. Get a grip.

I know this post doesn't belong on a discussion about Mr Kaiser, but ^ started it.
Title: George Kaiser's Forbes 400 Profile...
Post by: shadows on October 05, 2007, 01:20:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael

I want to sell off some body parts, but I found out that I am prohibited from listing them on E-Bay.

Then I tried to donate them to science, but they were not interested either.

I guess I will have to donate them to science fiction.



E-Bay has some very intelligent people that can tell when parts are usable.