the 30th anniversary of this crime passed this summer with nothing but questions still remaining for the families and people of the area. If anyone has any ideas or tips on this case, please email me.
One lead that was looked at by the OSBI was a guy named Mike that told Boy Scouts at a nearby camp that he worked at a service station in Tulsa in the winter months & hitchhiked and stayed in the country in the summer. This would have been around 1977 and he would have been around 18, late teens.
He was staying in a cabin within a couple of miles from the Girl Scout Camp in the summer of 1977. He was gone by the time the investigators went to get him and was never seen again. They were distracted by another suspect and never went back to answer the questions about this "Mike" guy the Boy Scouts told them about.
Anyone have any idea who that might be? I realize its a big town and a long time ago, but its a shot. Any other thoughts or tips? 30 years is too long for this thing to go without a solution. Help if you can...even if without leaving your name. Thanks!
What came of the DNA investigation they had reported on this summer?
Test was inconclusive; another test was ordered.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070909_1_A20_spanc77621
Yes it was inconclusive...and they are running out of DNA samples. Witnesses and suspects are now getting older and a lot are dying. The chance to solve this thing is slipping away quickly if its not already gone.
If anyone has any help please email me. Thanks!
I kind of remember when this happened, but being about the same age as the girls, my parents protected me from really hearing much about it.
I hope they solve it. But I kinda doubt it being so long ago. My cousin (Dena Dean) was murdered in '98 and they still haven't found her killer.
Sometimes people do get away with murder.
Something I remember from Oklahoma-not a good memory either. Wasn't their main suspect acquitted? I understand he "died" under mysterious circumstances....
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
Something I remember from Oklahoma-not a good memory either. Wasn't their main suspect acquitted? I understand he "died" under mysterious circumstances....
Heart attack two months after aquittal
Gene did it and the state of Okla took care of him, case closed!
Interesting you are so sure Hart did it...a lot of the evidence doesn't add up. He was acquitted & the jurors interviewed haven't regretted their vote.
He did die from a heart attack in prison while serving time for previous crimes. A guy in a good physical condition by all accounts had a heart attack while jogging.
I've looked at this case closely and I can't see how anyone could be positive Hart did the crime.
My needle in a haystack shot that some old-timer might remember a "Mike" that worked at a service station and camped out all sumer I guess came up empty handed here. That lead is probably long dead unfortunately.
It's a shame that the focus seemed to be on Hart the entire time instead of fleshing out other leads.
Did local law enforcement ever really look back into it immediately after the acquittal, or did they figure they got hosed by the jury?
That would have been the best time to have done that.
quote:
Originally posted by needthetruth
Interesting you are so sure Hart did it...a lot of the evidence doesn't add up. He was acquitted & the jurors interviewed haven't regretted their vote.
He did die from a heart attack in prison while serving time for previous crimes. A guy in a good physical condition by all accounts had a heart attack while jogging.
I've looked at this case closely and I can't see how anyone could be positive Hart did the crime.
My needle in a haystack shot that some old-timer might remember a "Mike" that worked at a service station and camped out all sumer I guess came up empty handed here. That lead is probably long dead unfortunately.
The guy that gave Gene his lie detector test told me he not only flunked it but it was the most guilty lie detector he had ever done.
Lets not forget that Gene was a scum bag of the worst sorts. So when you ask yourself who could of done such a thing, it would of taken some sick pup like Gene to do so. You have to also remember back then there wasn't so many sick freaks running around like there are today. And there wasn't anymore attacks like this on anyone after they got Gene put away.
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by needthetruth
Interesting you are so sure Hart did it...a lot of the evidence doesn't add up. He was acquitted & the jurors interviewed haven't regretted their vote.
He did die from a heart attack in prison while serving time for previous crimes. A guy in a good physical condition by all accounts had a heart attack while jogging.
I've looked at this case closely and I can't see how anyone could be positive Hart did the crime.
My needle in a haystack shot that some old-timer might remember a "Mike" that worked at a service station and camped out all sumer I guess came up empty handed here. That lead is probably long dead unfortunately.
The guy that gave Gene his lie detector test told me he not only flunked it but it was the most guilty lie detector he had ever done.
Lets not forget that Gene was a scum bag of the worst sorts. So when you ask yourself who could of done such a thing, it would of taken some sick pup like Gene to do so. You have to also remember back then there wasn't so many sick freaks running around like there are today. And there wasn't anymore attacks like this on anyone after they got Gene put away.
The only people who believe lie detectors are infallible are the detector operators. I've heard the same story on other cases before. I guess the liars get progressively worse.
That's one reason you seldom, if ever, hear of lie detector evidence in court.
I have no idea if he did it or not, I sure wouldn't base it on lie detector evidence alone. I hope there's still some samples which would either prove him guilty or innocent so some families can move on and know for certain.
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by needthetruth
Interesting you are so sure Hart did it...a lot of the evidence doesn't add up. He was acquitted & the jurors interviewed haven't regretted their vote.
He did die from a heart attack in prison while serving time for previous crimes. A guy in a good physical condition by all accounts had a heart attack while jogging.
I've looked at this case closely and I can't see how anyone could be positive Hart did the crime.
My needle in a haystack shot that some old-timer might remember a "Mike" that worked at a service station and camped out all sumer I guess came up empty handed here. That lead is probably long dead unfortunately.
The guy that gave Gene his lie detector test told me he not only flunked it but it was the most guilty lie detector he had ever done.
Lets not forget that Gene was a scum bag of the worst sorts. So when you ask yourself who could of done such a thing, it would of taken some sick pup like Gene to do so. You have to also remember back then there wasn't so many sick freaks running around like there are today. And there wasn't anymore attacks like this on anyone after they got Gene put away.
Oh really Porky. Would you be willing to testify your knowledge as to the facts of this case in a court of law? Why are you not in the DA's office right now attempting to close this case?
All of your comments are just vapid heresay.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Oh really Porky. Would you be willing to testify your knowledge as to the facts of this case in a court of law?
Sure
quote:
Why are you not in the DA's office right now attempting to close this case?
Because I've been watching the Democrat Debate of OETA, I didn't know they wanted to hear from me.
btw....Hillary said on there that the rich should continue paying only 15% in tax, while the middle class should pay much more. But that's another issue......
quote:
All of your comments are just vapid heresay.
Not at all but make of it as you wish.
Here's the deal Steve and I'm sure you will find argument with it but that's fine with me because you and others are looking for the truth.
I got a 2nd job back when all of this happened, at a place called U-Totem in Dewey, Okla. They required a polygraph test before getting hired. I don't know if you have ever had one of these lie detector test Steve but I told the guy doing it that I now know what it's like being raped of ones self. Unless you have had one of these Steve, you will have no idea what I'm talking about. Unless you have been raped and your soul has been tossed to the curb.
Anyways.........once it was over the guy giving the polygraph and I started to chat and it was at this time that he told me the story I had mentioned earlier about Gene Leroy Hart.
That's all there is Steve but if you feel I'm a liar.....well meet me and we can discuss the issue between each other. [^]
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Oh really Porky. Would you be willing to testify your knowledge as to the facts of this case in a court of law?
Sure
quote:
Why are you not in the DA's office right now attempting to close this case?
Because I've been watching the Democrat Debate of OETA, I didn't know they wanted to hear from me.
btw....Hillary said on there that the rich should continue paying only 15% in tax, while the middle class should pay much more. But that's another issue......
quote:
All of your comments are just vapid heresay.
Not at all but make of it as you wish.
Here's the deal Steve and I'm sure you will find argument with it but that's fine with me because you and others are looking for the truth.
I got a 2nd job back when all of this happened, at a place called U-Totem in Dewey, Okla. They required a polygraph test before getting hired. I don't know if you have ever had one of these lie detector test Steve but I told the guy doing it that I now know what it's like being raped of ones self. Unless you have had one of these Steve, you will have no idea what I'm talking about. Unless you have been raped and your soul has been tossed to the curb.
Anyways.........once it was over the guy giving the polygraph and I started to chat and it was at this time that he told me the story I had mentioned earlier about Gene Leroy Hart.
That's all there is Steve but if you feel I'm a liar.....well meet me and we can discuss the issue between each other. [^]
Good work...I have no doubts Hart did it.....Some people love to latch onto conspiracy's and such.....People have gotten to use the DNA thing from Hollywood.......
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Oh really Porky. Would you be willing to testify your knowledge as to the facts of this case in a court of law?
Sure
quote:
Why are you not in the DA's office right now attempting to close this case?
Because I've been watching the Democrat Debate of OETA, I didn't know they wanted to hear from me.
btw....Hillary said on there that the rich should continue paying only 15% in tax, while the middle class should pay much more. But that's another issue......
quote:
All of your comments are just vapid heresay.
Not at all but make of it as you wish.
Here's the deal Steve and I'm sure you will find argument with it but that's fine with me because you and others are looking for the truth.
I got a 2nd job back when all of this happened, at a place called U-Totem in Dewey, Okla. They required a polygraph test before getting hired. I don't know if you have ever had one of these lie detector test Steve but I told the guy doing it that I now know what it's like being raped of ones self. Unless you have had one of these Steve, you will have no idea what I'm talking about. Unless you have been raped and your soul has been tossed to the curb.
Anyways.........once it was over the guy giving the polygraph and I started to chat and it was at this time that he told me the story I had mentioned earlier about Gene Leroy Hart.
That's all there is Steve but if you feel I'm a liar.....well meet me and we can discuss the issue between each other. [^]
Ever dawn on you that the polygraph operator may have been a pathological liar? [}:)][}:)]
The reason polygraph tests aren't admissible in court is because they're notoriously unreliable and inaccurate.
Polygraph results are barely better than flipping a coin.
It's just as well courts won't use them. I don't want a tool that's barely better than 50-50 in accuracy.
If you can find a copy anywhere, read "Someone Cry for the Children." It's a book written by Mike Wilkerson, one of the lead OSBI investigators. Granted, it's got an understandable bias toward the law-enforcement side, but it certainly lends credability to the very real possibility that Hart killed those girls.
Breadburner & Porky,
I'd love to discuss this more with you two...well anyone for that matter.
Breadburner what makes you so positive? Jurors heard all the evidence and they weren't positive. Have you heard of William Stevens? If you could convince me, that would be great, then I wouldn't have to wonder what the real killer is out doing if he/she/they are still alive.
Porky, I've read a lot of stuff on this case and I don't think I've ever seen where Gene Leroy Hart even TOOK a lie detector test. They weren't required and I don't think he volunteered. Maybe you know something I don't know, but I'd love to talk to the guy you say gave him the test. Do you have his contact information?
My email is needthetruth@gmail.com I would love to hear from ANYONE on this matter.
My homepage is also a message board about the case if you want to discuss it there.
home page (//%22http://p068.ezboard.com/fgirlscoutmurdersfrm2%22)
The families deserve to have this solved. The community deserves to have this solved. The killer(s) deserve to pay their due. If you can help or just want to discuss it, contact me.
Thanks
quote:
Originally posted by Sardonicus Rex
If you can find a copy anywhere, read "Someone Cry for the Children." It's a book written by Mike Wilkerson, one of the lead OSBI investigators. Granted, it's got an understandable bias toward the law-enforcement side, but it certainly lends credability to the very real possibility that Hart killed those girls.
That is a very one-sided book with a lot of things that just don't add up when you know all the facts. The Wilkerson's have Hart running through the woods and sleeping in caves where he leaves all this critical evidence behind for whatever reason. I've talked to people I trust that have told me they know family members that were keeping him at houses (just like the one he was found in eventually) and he never spent a night in the woods. Kinda makes the stuff found in the caves looked planted doesn't it? I don't know if it was or wasn't, but I do know the more you dig or information the more the glossed over versions of the books just don't hold water.
Chances are, if Gene Hart did not do it, whomever did do it likely would have done it again and may well be serving time for another murder(s) elsewhere. That was not a crime of opportunity. Everything about it suggested there was something sick and perverted in the killer's mind, not unlike that of a serial killer. I'm talking along the lines of a Ted Bundy type mental state.
At that time the only suspect in the area they could develop was GLH since he was an excapee and he had been convicted of previous rapes. I always had doubts that they had cut their investigation short.
It's never been beyond rural law enforcement to make the evidence fit the suspect.
quote:
Originally posted by needthetruth
Porky, I've read a lot of stuff on this case and I don't think I've ever seen where Gene Leroy Hart even TOOK a lie detector test. They weren't required and I don't think he volunteered. Maybe you know something I don't know, but I'd love to talk to the guy you say gave him the test. Do you have his contact information?
I'm not here to argue with you, just told you what I know. You might want to check with U Totem stores if there still around and see what firm they use to use for the polygraphs. Dewey is in Washington county if that would be any help.
Nice site you built and awesome job in gathering the information you have on there.
btw....I know one of the girls that was killed brother. He said they felt Hart did it.
yeah Porky, I'm not here to argue either. I just thought you might know the guy's name. I really don't think he took a test & I'm positive he didn't take one that was known by the prosecutors.
Hart very well could have done it. I have no idea after all I've read on the case. The evidence presented at trial was sure not enough to get a conviction though.
Hopefully something comes from the site. If you (or anyone else) has any suggestions please let me know.
Thanks
quote:
Originally posted by needthetruth
Hart very well could have done it. I have no idea after all I've read on the case. The evidence presented at trial was sure not enough to get a conviction though.
1st regarding the lie detector. Hart was a long term criminal with several convictions and probably more things that he was never charged with in his background. I would imagine he never heard a question he could answer with the truth. A lie detector on someone like that would be a waste of time.
2nd, When those kids were killed, Hart was in Tulsa at his uncles place. this is the story the way I heard it.
My mother-in-law at the time (she is in poor health and in a nursing home in Coweta now) was the office staff for Pump Valve Specialties, a foundry off 4th, between Peoria and Utica. A lot of their labor came from Salina, Locust Grove, etc, and you would never know who was coming to work on Monday after payday, and every Friday was a payday. Some of the workers rented rooms in those houses west of Whittier Square. As my mother-in-law claimed to be Cherokee, occasionally the workers would visit with her on lunch break. One in particular, a couple of days after Hart as arrested, was sitting there and told her that they got the wrong guy. When she asked how he knew, he said Hart was his nephew and he was hiding from the law, in his room in Tulsa when the killings happened. About 4 months later, the uncle died, although I am not aware of the circumstances. I do recall my mother-in-law being deposed, but I don't believe she was ever called to testify.
interesting information...Do you think your mother-in-law would be willing to tell her story again or is her health too poor?
If you would email me at needthetruth@gmail.com.
Thanks!
For everyone else, there are stories of Hart being in other places at the time of the murders. There are stories of him being right beside the camp the morning of the murders. It's a lot to sort out and the truth is hiding in there somewhere.
If it were my child, I'd want someone to keep trying to figure it out.