This morning's World reported trouble brewing with the bonds for One Tech.
Bonds cannot seem to be issued prior to closing. So, was wondering how the building was being paid for in the interim?
Anyone know?
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
This morning's World reported trouble brewing with the bonds for One Tech.
Bonds cannot seem to be issued prior to closing. So, was wondering how the building was being paid for in the interim?
Anyone know?
I think this may be the route they are taking...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/Quitclaim.jpg)
sounds like they are robbing Peter to pay Paul.
whatever happened to the council requierment that they had to find a 3rd party to lease out the building?
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
sounds like they are robbing Peter to pay Paul.
whatever happened to the council requierment that they had to find a 3rd party to lease out the building?
3rd party was leasing the non-city space only I believe.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
sounds like they are robbing Peter to pay Paul.
whatever happened to the council requierment that they had to find a 3rd party to lease out the building?
3rd party was leasing the non-city space only I believe.
Correct.
Everyone's nervous over the credit situation. Is there something about the cities credit rating we don't know....
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
sounds like they are robbing Peter to pay Paul.
whatever happened to the council requierment that they had to find a 3rd party to lease out the building?
Prior to closing on the property, the city either had to have a master lease in place (for all the space the city won't be using) OR transfer land worth a certain amount to the Tulsa Industrial Authority. Both measures were intended to protect against the vagaries of the office rental market. Theoretically, if rental revenues fell short of projections, the TIA could sell off the land and continue to make payments on the debt for OTC.
The first protection, the master lease, actually would require some private business to make a financial commitment. The second protection is a paper transaction that only requires the City and the TIA pretending that the land is worth the required amount.
Councilor Eagleton tried to require both protections to be in place before closing could occur. He was thwarted by a majority of his colleagues, at the urging of Mayor Taylor and Don Himelfarb.
The OTC purchase is being financed for an initial period by the seller. TIA will be paying interest only on the debt. At some point, TIA will sell revenue bonds, pay off the seller, and then begin paying back the bondholders.
Yes. Eagleton did attempt to get "and" inserted for belts and suspenders.
MB thanks for clarifying this....
I see the city has now started to search for a real estate broker to master plan downtown...I thought that was Economic Developments job. I also would be concerned about conflicts of interest that a broker could create. Oh well, it's time to try a cohesive plan to develop downtown. And picking an outsider may indeed be the only way to avoid in fighting.
Thanks for the clarification Bates.
Why don't they just get a personal loan from Lobeck?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Why don't they just get a personal loan from Lobeck?
The man is sacrificing enough already....
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Why don't they just get a personal loan from Lobeck?
The man is sacrificing enough already....
haha...yeah what sin did he commit to get stuck with Krazy Kathy?
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Why don't they just get a personal loan from Lobeck?
The man is sacrificing enough already....
haha...yeah what sin did he commit to get stuck with Krazy Kathy?
Crazy like a fox.....
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
This morning's World reported trouble brewing with the bonds for One Tech.
Bonds cannot seem to be issued prior to closing. So, was wondering how the building was being paid for in the interim?
Anyone know?
I think this may be the route they are taking...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/Quitclaim.jpg)
Mayor's item regarding the "Quit Claim Deed Transfer" pulled from the Council Agenda this evening...!
Anyone know why...?
Was she told they would not pass the item...!
Roscoe and Jack are fairly upset regarding the "lack of sensitivity" on the Pamer issue..
Turner, Eagleton, Christiansen, Henderson, and one more may put the "New City Hall" at risk...
Well I'm just guessing... anyone know the "Real Deal" ........?????
The One Tech fiasco is well on it's way to becoming the clusterf*#$k I predicted.
City land to be assesed for environmental issues (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070415_1_A15_hPlan62814%22)
Councilors concerned over lack of master lease (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070905_1_A1_spanc46283%22)
City hall move not likely soon (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070903_1_A1_KWorl61362%22)
A refresher on the third party master lease agreement (//%22http://tulsaworld.cc/cblog/archives/56-July-12th-Video-of-City-Council-Discussion-on-City-Hall-Move.html%22)
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
The One Tech fiasco is well on it's way to becoming the clusterf*#$k I predicted.
City land to be assesed for environmental issues (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070415_1_A15_hPlan62814%22)
Councilors concerned over lack of master lease (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070905_1_A1_spanc46283%22)
City hall move not likely soon (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070903_1_A1_KWorl61362%22)
A refresher on the third party master lease agreement (//%22http://tulsaworld.cc/cblog/archives/56-July-12th-Video-of-City-Council-Discussion-on-City-Hall-Move.html%22)
I agree.
It's a bad deal gone badder.
If you think it's hard now, wait 5 years when Kitty is covering another sand box.
There's still time, however. And, there's signs the Council may be coming to their senses.
The city paying for destruction of some of the buildings it's leaving.
What buildings are being destroyed? Anyone know?
I'm picturing bridges being blown up to slow the pursuing hordes.
The silence from the cheerleaders of this deal speaks volumes. Bank of Kaiser is the only financial institution interested in this risky master lease deal. Big surprise.
On this and other things we disagree AA...
I actually think the concept is sound. It makes more financial sense than some of the "pie in the sky" items lately..
That Kaiser is willing to handle the lease is no surprise.
The part I like in this transaction, above everything, is the amount of real estate it will free up for private development... Or public expansion.. i.e. The "Bath House" at New Block Park.
I'm all for this deal.....
My source at BOK tells me BOK estimates they will make $5M off this deal with the leases. They may even lease space to themselves.
That's what I figured... the proximity of the building is such that BOk could always cover itself by utilizing the space.
Double A, I dont get it. Why do you have a problem with the Bank of Oklahoma or George Kaiser? For that matter, name a development that you are in favor of. Your opposition to everything makes it easy to write off your objections.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
That's what I figured... the proximity of the building is such that BOk could always cover itself by utilizing the space.
Double A, I dont get it. Why do you have a problem with the Bank of Oklahoma or George Kaiser? For that matter, name a development that you are in favor of. Your opposition to everything makes it easy to write off your objections.
I'd rather be an honest naysayer than a dishonest cheerleader. Many of the problems I predicted have already come to pass, many more will follow. Stay tuned. I really like the LEED certified development in my hood, BTW. The Rose Bowl redevelopment is a favorite of mine, too.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
That's what I figured... the proximity of the building is such that BOk could always cover itself by utilizing the space.
Double A, I dont get it. Why do you have a problem with the Bank of Oklahoma or George Kaiser? For that matter, name a development that you are in favor of. Your opposition to everything makes it easy to write off your objections.
Actually, my source told me they were looking at moving the call center down there. Not sure where they are now. 41st and Sheridan?
Expressbank is at 71st and Yale at Copper Oaks. Probably would make more sense to move it downtown, along with a few of the offices still in that building.
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
On this and other things we disagree AA...
I actually think the concept is sound. It makes more financial sense than some of the "pie in the sky" items lately..
That Kaiser is willing to handle the lease is no surprise.
The part I like in this transaction, above everything, is the amount of real estate it will free up for private development... Or public expansion.. i.e. The "Bath House" at New Block Park.
You are correct, senor. The fact that Kaiser is the only one willing to touch this master lease is no surprise and it speaks volumes about just how good of a deal this really is. Kinda reminds me of when he backed those loans on Great Plains Airlines and wanted an illegal payback when that deal went belly up.
It doesn't take a very sharp pencil to figure that the pot of gold is in the tax free interest that will be charged on the revenue bonds. The whole transaction is well covered where the BOK will make millions even if they have to ante up a few millions to the pot. The secrete is don't let any other players in the game. Once the deal is made then sit back and collect the pot (City Coffers) anted up by the working poor.
If the mayor was spending her husbands money like she is throwing the taxpayers around, it is easy to see why he bought her the new toy of the mayoral chair.
I have stopped reading the TW or looking at the news because I am frightened to see what is the next whim the mayor can come up with.
Off Topic
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
^^^that is the kind of crap that makes this forum irrelevant, FYI.
The thread, at least.
Looks like she pulled it off. Good for Tulsa.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070925_238_A1_hBuil21480
Good job Mayor and Council.
quote:
Originally posted by jne
Looks like she pulled it off. Good for Tulsa.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070925_238_A1_hBuil21480
Level3 and Deloitte can bend them over now for rent. The profit BoKaiser stands to make is so razor thin that Level3 and Deloitte knows they have them by the balls. If I were Level3 I would shoot for the moon on lease terms.
actually if I were Level3 I would get the hell out of there because the turds wandering in and out of there are a security risk to their operations. it used to be like fort knox to get in there....not anymore.
in 10-15 years this building will be a piece of ****. The city couldn't/wouldn't keep up with what they had, what makes you think they will keep up with maintenance here? This is like some ghetto thug suddenly going from a Dodge Stratus to a Mercedes SLK and not being able to afford the $150 oil changes.
quote:
in 10-15 years this building will be a piece of ****. The city couldn't/wouldn't keep up with what they had, what makes you think they will keep up with maintenance here? This is like some ghetto thug suddenly going from a Dodge Stratus to a Mercedes SLK and not being able to afford the $150 oil changes.
This point is well taken. Many who have defended this purchase have done so under the guise that it is a monetary savings from the immense amount of money which would be required to repair the existing city hall. What gets lost in these discussions is the fact that it was a willful act to ignore the maintenance on the old city hall. The money which was to have been used periodically maintaining those facilities was always siphoned off for some other cause. Had the maintenance money been used as was originally intended, the argument of purported future savings becomes moot point. Point of consideration: the old city hall was of conventional, heavy construction. Newer buildings, such as OTC, tend to be constructed utilizing newer techniques, lighter materials, etc. While structurally sound, these newer buildings are dependent upon regular maintenance in order to maintain structural integrity and a pleasing appearance. If the city ignores maintenance on this new structure the way they have for years on the old city facilities, OTC will be a trash heap within a few years. Take a walk thru the police & courts building & you'll get a nice aroma of mold, mildew, etc. Many of the employees who work within that structure consider it to have the "sick building" syndrome, causing many to have chronic upper respiratory problems, etc. Also note that the story keeps changing as to the financial viability of the OTC transaction. Initially, this was proposed as a revenue enhancing transaction wherein tenant lease payments would lessen the city's costs. Now it's being represented as a "break-even" proposition. As with most things, the future holds the real truth on this matter.
quote:
Originally posted by RuralDweller
quote:
in 10-15 years this building will be a piece of ****. The city couldn't/wouldn't keep up with what they had, what makes you think they will keep up with maintenance here? This is like some ghetto thug suddenly going from a Dodge Stratus to a Mercedes SLK and not being able to afford the $150 oil changes.
This point is well taken. Many who have defended this purchase have done so under the guise that it is a monetary savings from the immense amount of money which would be required to repair the existing city hall. What gets lost in these discussions is the fact that it was a willful act to ignore the maintenance on the old city hall. The money which was to have been used periodically maintaining those facilities was always siphoned off for some other cause. Had the maintenance money been used as was originally intended, the argument of purported future savings becomes moot point. Point of consideration: the old city hall was of conventional, heavy construction. Newer buildings, such as OTC, tend to be constructed utilizing newer techniques, lighter materials, etc. While structurally sound, these newer buildings are dependent upon regular maintenance in order to maintain structural integrity and a pleasing appearance. If the city ignores maintenance on this new structure the way they have for years on the old city facilities, OTC will be a trash heap within a few years. Take a walk thru the police & courts building & you'll get a nice aroma of mold, mildew, etc. Many of the employees who work within that structure consider it to have the "sick building" syndrome, causing many to have chronic upper respiratory problems, etc. Also note that the story keeps changing as to the financial viability of the OTC transaction. Initially, this was proposed as a revenue enhancing transaction wherein tenant lease payments would lessen the city's costs. Now it's being represented as a "break-even" proposition. As with most things, the future holds the real truth on this matter.
There is a 8.9 million dollar deferred maintenance fund that will be used to defer costs if the master lease does not work. The Mayor claimed the current City Hall has around 15 million in deferred maintenance. The claims of 15 million dollars of deferred maintenance were never verified by the City Auditor. It seems we had the money to repair the at least half the deferred maintenance, if you believe the unverified numbers the Mayor used. Considering this fund was on hand, wouldn't a more accurate representation of the deferred maintenance costs have been around 6 million dollars, working from the numbers provided by the Mayor?
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
This is like some ghetto thug suddenly going from a Dodge Stratus to a Mercedes SLK and not being able to afford the $150 oil changes.
Good one! [8D]
quote:
Originally posted by RuralDweller
quote:
in 10-15 years this building will be a piece of ****. The city couldn't/wouldn't keep up with what they had, what makes you think they will keep up with maintenance here? This is like some ghetto thug suddenly going from a Dodge Stratus to a Mercedes SLK and not being able to afford the $150 oil changes.
This point is well taken. Many who have defended this purchase have done so under the guise that it is a monetary savings from the immense amount of money which would be required to repair the existing city hall. What gets lost in these discussions is the fact that it was a willful act to ignore the maintenance on the old city hall. The money which was to have been used periodically maintaining those facilities was always siphoned off for some other cause. Had the maintenance money been used as was originally intended, the argument of purported future savings becomes moot point. Point of consideration: the old city hall was of conventional, heavy construction. Newer buildings, such as OTC, tend to be constructed utilizing newer techniques, lighter materials, etc. While structurally sound, these newer buildings are dependent upon regular maintenance in order to maintain structural integrity and a pleasing appearance. If the city ignores maintenance on this new structure the way they have for years on the old city facilities, OTC will be a trash heap within a few years. Take a walk thru the police & courts building & you'll get a nice aroma of mold, mildew, etc. Many of the employees who work within that structure consider it to have the "sick building" syndrome, causing many to have chronic upper respiratory problems, etc. Also note that the story keeps changing as to the financial viability of the OTC transaction. Initially, this was proposed as a revenue enhancing transaction wherein tenant lease payments would lessen the city's costs. Now it's being represented as a "break-even" proposition. As with most things, the future holds the real truth on this matter.
And what gets lost in
this argument is that the city of Tulsa is flat broke. I'm a big believer in preventive maintenance, but we taxpayers don't even provide that fractional amount needed for good upkeep. So, maybe it's our fault.
Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.
What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?
Bueller? Bueller?
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.
What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?
Bueller? Bueller?
The City of Tulsa has been known to break stuff even bigger and more costly than this.
Take a building, whatever the cost, which requires CONSTANT maintenance and ignore it for a year, then get back to us, without a tax increase.
The current deal masks all this for the first 5 years by paying interest only. So, it likely won't become a problem for us until Kitty is long gone.
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by RuralDweller
quote:
in 10-15 years this building will be a piece of ****. The city couldn't/wouldn't keep up with what they had, what makes you think they will keep up with maintenance here? This is like some ghetto thug suddenly going from a Dodge Stratus to a Mercedes SLK and not being able to afford the $150 oil changes.
This point is well taken. Many who have defended this purchase have done so under the guise that it is a monetary savings from the immense amount of money which would be required to repair the existing city hall. What gets lost in these discussions is the fact that it was a willful act to ignore the maintenance on the old city hall. The money which was to have been used periodically maintaining those facilities was always siphoned off for some other cause. Had the maintenance money been used as was originally intended, the argument of purported future savings becomes moot point. Point of consideration: the old city hall was of conventional, heavy construction. Newer buildings, such as OTC, tend to be constructed utilizing newer techniques, lighter materials, etc. While structurally sound, these newer buildings are dependent upon regular maintenance in order to maintain structural integrity and a pleasing appearance. If the city ignores maintenance on this new structure the way they have for years on the old city facilities, OTC will be a trash heap within a few years. Take a walk thru the police & courts building & you'll get a nice aroma of mold, mildew, etc. Many of the employees who work within that structure consider it to have the "sick building" syndrome, causing many to have chronic upper respiratory problems, etc. Also note that the story keeps changing as to the financial viability of the OTC transaction. Initially, this was proposed as a revenue enhancing transaction wherein tenant lease payments would lessen the city's costs. Now it's being represented as a "break-even" proposition. As with most things, the future holds the real truth on this matter.
And what gets lost in this argument is that the city of Tulsa is flat broke. I'm a big believer in preventive maintenance, but we taxpayers don't even provide that fractional amount needed for good upkeep. So, maybe it's our fault.
The City of Tulsa is anything but flat broke. The City had a surplus of over $25 million in JUST Sales & Use Tax revenues in Fiscal Year 2006-1007 ending June 30, 2007.
Placing blame on the citizens for the faults of our leaders may be proper as it relates to votes, but not in funding.
Check your facts again.
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.
What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?
Bueller? Bueller?
Where'd you come up with that number?
And don't forget, also, that the building sat there for sale for years and they could not find a buyer. Sat there more than 1/2 vacant for years and they could not find tenants. And then along came our mayor with her many years of business experience... we'll see how the story ends, but it's not looking like a happy ending for Tulsa's citizens.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
The City of Tulsa is anything but flat broke. The City had a surplus of over $25 million in JUST Sales & Use Tax revenues in Fiscal Year 2006-1007 ending June 30, 2007.
Placing blame on the citizens for the faults of our leaders may be proper as it relates to votes, but not in funding.
Check your facts again.
My facts are fine, Wrinkle, maybe you should check yours.
Look at Councilor Martin's Fiscal Restraints report (//%22http://www.tulsacouncil.org/pdfs/website%20embedded/COT_Fiscal_Constraints.pdf%22). You'll see that Tulsa's budget has been flat, when adjusted for inflation. Further, Tulsa has been stuggling to meet revenue projections since the late 1980s. How exactly, is a sudden $25 million surplus going to perform the billions in upkeep that we have not funded for 20 years? Time travel? As RuralDweller suggests, the best solution is to take better care of infrastructure throughout its lifespan. Do that and you can get more life out of it. Tulsa has not had the money to do that for decades because nobody wants to pay for it.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.
What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?
Bueller? Bueller?
The City of Tulsa has been known to break stuff even bigger and more costly than this.
Take a building, whatever the cost, which requires CONSTANT maintenance and ignore it for a year, then get back to us, without a tax increase.
The current deal masks all this for the first 5 years by paying interest only. So, it likely won't become a problem for us until Kitty is long gone.
You are correct sir. The most risk the city will be exposed to will occur in years 5-7.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.
What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?
Bueller? Bueller?
Where'd you come up with that number?
And don't forget, also, that the building sat there for sale for years and they could not find a buyer. Sat there more than 1/2 vacant for years and they could not find tenants. And then along came our mayor with her many years of business experience... we'll see how the story ends, but it's not looking like a happy ending for Tulsa's citizens.
I believe $600M was the total cost. $300M for the structure, $300M for the furnishings and finishings.
The city buys a 600 million dollar property for 52 million.
That is 8.6 cents on the dollar. Isn't that the about the same as our current sales tax rate?
Just pay the sales tax and get the product free!
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
The city buys a 600 million dollar property for 52 million.
That is 8.6 cents on the dollar. Isn't that the about the same as our current sales tax rate?
Just pay the sales tax and get the product free!
We are to believe the building owners chose to sell the property for $548,000,000 less then value? Really?
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
The city buys a 600 million dollar property for 52 million.
That is 8.6 cents on the dollar. Isn't that the about the same as our current sales tax rate?
Just pay the sales tax and get the product free!
We are to believe the building owners chose to sell the property for $548,000,000 less then value? Really?
Yup. Williams Communications went bankrupt in 2002. Level 3 got everything (people, clients, etc.) for $1.1 billion. They ended up with a building they couldn't fill, so they dumped it. They got what the wanted and moved on.
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
The city buys a 600 million dollar property for 52 million.
That is 8.6 cents on the dollar. Isn't that the about the same as our current sales tax rate?
Just pay the sales tax and get the product free!
We are to believe the building owners chose to sell the property for $548,000,000 less then value? Really?
Yup. Williams Communications went bankrupt in 2002. Level 3 got everything (people, clients, etc.) for $1.1 billion. They ended up with a building they couldn't fill, so they dumped it. They got what the wanted and moved on.
If that is true, we should all check our portfolios for any evidence of Level 3 stock and sell immediately if the bosses of that company are making decisions such as this. If they chose to throw away more then one-half billion dollars for no reason, they will soon be bankrupt. And this is the type of company with this type of management the City is counting on for a long term lease?
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
The city buys a 600 million dollar property for 52 million.
That is 8.6 cents on the dollar. Isn't that the about the same as our current sales tax rate?
Just pay the sales tax and get the product free!
Bragging about buying a lemon cheap? That's rich. You've taken spin to a whole new level.
Lemon?
Your attempt to discredit everything that the Mayor does has tainted your objectivity on this one.
It is a fine building.
And he said "that's rich"
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.
What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?
Bueller? Bueller?
Where'd you come up with that number?
And don't forget, also, that the building sat there for sale for years and they could not find a buyer. Sat there more than 1/2 vacant for years and they could not find tenants. And then along came our mayor with her many years of business experience... we'll see how the story ends, but it's not looking like a happy ending for Tulsa's citizens.
I believe $600M was the total cost. $300M for the structure, $300M for the furnishings and finishings.
ROFL Wow, some people will believe anything... Show me one credible source that says that building cost $300 million OR that it cost $300 million to furnish it. Those numbers are insane.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.
What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?
Bueller? Bueller?
Where'd you come up with that number?
And don't forget, also, that the building sat there for sale for years and they could not find a buyer. Sat there more than 1/2 vacant for years and they could not find tenants. And then along came our mayor with her many years of business experience... we'll see how the story ends, but it's not looking like a happy ending for Tulsa's citizens.
I believe $600M was the total cost. $300M for the structure, $300M for the furnishings and finishings.
ROFL Wow, some people will believe anything... Show me one credible source that says that building cost $300 million OR that it cost $300 million to furnish it. Those numbers are insane.
The source I saw was the OKC Journal Record. Unfortuately, it's in archives now and I don't have a paid subscription. I also don't have time to google articles. But honestly--this building had very, very high construction costs. Does it look like something that could be build for $50 million? $80 million? No - try $200 million, or a present cost of $300 million.
Do you realize how large and well-equipped this structure is? Williams built it at the heyday of the dot-com boom. Look at the leasing brochure: http://onetechnologycenter.com/Portals/1/OTCLeaseBrochure.pdf
Whether or not you think the deal should have been made, there shouldn't be an argument about the nature of the structure. It's a Porsche 911 of office buildings--as nice, sleek, and modern as any available, period. City of Tulsa got in at the very bottom of the market. In the event that the downtown office market ever booms again (not out of the realm of possibility), the city will have a wildly appreciating asset on its hands.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
If that is true, we should all check our portfolios for any evidence of Level 3 stock and sell immediately if the bosses of that company are making decisions such as this. If they chose to throw away more then one-half billion dollars for no reason, they will soon be bankrupt. And this is the type of company with this type of management the City is counting on for a long term lease?
Level 3 got SBC...I think they did okay. [story] (//%22http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18819792%22).
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
If that is true, we should all check our portfolios for any evidence of Level 3 stock and sell immediately if the bosses of that company are making decisions such as this. If they chose to throw away more then one-half billion dollars for no reason, they will soon be bankrupt. And this is the type of company with this type of management the City is counting on for a long term lease?
Level 3 got SBC...I think they did okay. [story] (//%22http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18819792%22).
What do you mean "they
gotSBC"???
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.
What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?
Bueller? Bueller?
Where'd you come up with that number?
And don't forget, also, that the building sat there for sale for years and they could not find a buyer. Sat there more than 1/2 vacant for years and they could not find tenants. And then along came our mayor with her many years of business experience... we'll see how the story ends, but it's not looking like a happy ending for Tulsa's citizens.
I believe $600M was the total cost. $300M for the structure, $300M for the furnishings and finishings.
ROFL Wow, some people will believe anything... Show me one credible source that says that building cost $300 million OR that it cost $300 million to furnish it. Those numbers are insane.
The source I saw was the OKC Journal Record. Unfortuately, it's in archives now and I don't have a paid subscription. I also don't have time to google articles. But honestly--this building had very, very high construction costs. Does it look like something that could be build for $50 million? $80 million? No - try $200 million, or a present cost of $300 million.
Ahhh, I see you're slyly changing the story. First it was "the building
cost $300 million." Now, we've already changed to "it cost $200 million" and has a "present cost of $300 million." First of all, you are making some wild assumptions about what the present cost of building that structure might be. Secondly, present value, and even "cost in today's dollars" are not the same as "cost."
You and your cohort are asking us to believe that it cost approximately
$800 per square foot to build and furnish that structure. Do you really think that sounds likely???
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
What do you mean "they gotSBC"???
From the above-linked, 2002 article:
quote:
Williams Communications, a broadband wholesaler, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection April 22, reporting assets of $5.99 billion and debts of $7.15 billion. Its reorganization plan would divide its post-bankruptcy assets between bondholders and Williams Cos., a Tulsa-based energy giant.
The company amassed its debt building its 33,000-mile fiber optic network, serving blue-chip customers including SBC Communications Inc. But an industrywide glut of broadband lowered prices and prevented Williams from raising enough cash to pay off the debt.
Level 3 has built a 20,000-mile, worldwide fiber optic network, serving customers such as regional Bell carriers, Internet service providers and cable TV companies.
Telecommunications analysts say the industry must undergo consolidation, which will reduce competition, allowing surviving firms to increase market share and raise prices.
I've seen quoted in publications at the time of construction it stated as $200 Million, including most of the interior stuff the City obtained.
I don't think downtown real estate has been escalating at the same rate as Miami condos, however.
Commercial buildings are market driven and priced according to their cash flow, i.e., occupancy.
A building sitting half empty for three or four years says a lot about the market for this type of space.
Still, at $52 Million, this would seem a good deal. If it remains so at $76 Million (bldg + move) starts to get questionable. Then there's the $8.5 Million per year in costs the City will be paying, stated as now near a 'break-even' deal in relation to current facilities. It was going to save us $15 Million when this began.
In five years, when we actually start buying the building (as opposed to paying interest only, i.e, 'rent'), I wonder if the new mortgage will be based upon the current $52M (or even the $76M) current cost, or the then appreciated market value of a full building?
The current work can only be considered 'magic'.
The city has a city hall that has enough room for offices for a city of a million citizens but the expansion of the city limits have been cut off by the burbs. We gottem the office space but where is the land to build the houses for the citizens to need such a building in the future. Could we use house boats on all these river lakes we are about to construct?
There are hundreds of the working poor that invested in under table stocks, that in the total tally could reach well beyond the figures that are being thrown around, that paid in queer stock issues for the excessive cost of the building. And they are not through paying for it by no means.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
Ahhh, I see you're slyly changing the story. First it was "the building cost $300 million." Now, we've already changed to "it cost $200 million" and has a "present cost of $300 million." First of all, you are making some wild assumptions about what the present cost of building that structure might be. Secondly, present value, and even "cost in today's dollars" are not the same as "cost."
You and your cohort are asking us to believe that it cost approximately $800 per square foot to build and furnish that structure. Do you really think that sounds likely???
First, I have no idea what the furnishings cost. Probably a lot.
Second, when I got home from my office in Dallas (which is nowhere near as nice as the city will soon have) I had time to Google for your answers. This Urban Tulsa article says today's construction cost would be $300 million: http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A17463 I would swear the Journal Record article I read said $300 million to originally build the structure, but whatever--you caught me in a filthy stinky lie. Go ahead and ROFL!!!1!!
Frankly, I have no idea why you're so pissy about this deal. Is it total risk aversion, misplaced architectural nostalgia, or raw political grudge? I mean, do you invest? Do you have a 401(k)? What don't you grasp? The city got in on a Mercedes for a Kia price! The city can office in their new, gleaming city hall for 40 years as it slowly depreciates and degrades, like last time, then move again, while we get a Holiday Inn across from the arena. That's the worst case. The best case is that, on top of a Sheraton luxury hotel adjacent to convention space, the market for downtown Tulsa office space takes off and the city sees a huge return on their investment. In 10 years time, I expect CoT to sell One Technology for a major profit and build a new city hall to suit. Or we can sell it at a small profit to lure a new corporate presence. I don't give a rat's donkey which one happens, because every option is better than that crumbly piece of modernist turdblossom, with its basement entry and tight hallways that every builder who needs a permit has to squeeze through and complain of the mildew smell.
I like this deal--it's forward thinking, dynamic, and a winner for the city. Can't wait to drive visitors around and point out City Hall in 2008. Because it's done. So enjoy.
The glass curtain wall and roof have already failed and had to be replaced. It's a salvaged mercedes pieced back together for a quick sale. You'd think after being in operation for five years the lease brochure would show actual numbers via recorded energy costs of operation, instead of just energy models that predict the energy savings due to the "solar well". To my knowledge, no documentation regarding the energy costs and consumption to confirm this energy efficient design modeling has ever been made public.
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
What do you mean "they gotSBC"???
From the above-linked, 2002 article:
quote:
Williams Communications, a broadband wholesaler, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection April 22, reporting assets of $5.99 billion and debts of $7.15 billion. Its reorganization plan would divide its post-bankruptcy assets between bondholders and Williams Cos., a Tulsa-based energy giant.
The company amassed its debt building its 33,000-mile fiber optic network, serving blue-chip customers including SBC Communications Inc. But an industrywide glut of broadband lowered prices and prevented Williams from raising enough cash to pay off the debt.
Level 3 has built a 20,000-mile, worldwide fiber optic network, serving customers such as regional Bell carriers, Internet service providers and cable TV companies.
Telecommunications analysts say the industry must undergo consolidation, which will reduce competition, allowing surviving firms to increase market share and raise prices.
Yeah, I saw that. So you were just referring to their getting SBC as a customer?
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
Yeah, I saw that. So you were just referring to their getting SBC as a customer?
Yep. They are fiber guys, and SBC is a huge fiber user. It's WilTel's clients that are of value to them. And, of course, the data pipes. They need consolidation in order to get rid of the glut, access new markets, etc., and ultimately charge higher rates. So, Level 3 probably got exactly what it needed out of the deal and is ready to move on.
The holding co., Leucadia, I guess could choose to wait things out if they wanted...they own real estate. But they, too, have probably already made what they wanted out of the deal and would just as soon liquidate a money-losing asset and have some cash on hand for the next big leveraged buyout.
So, in the scheme of things, dumping a piece of real estate for pennies on the dollar is not a dumb business move for people like this. Likewise, I suppose, buying a building like this for pennies on the dollar, if you have a use for it, can be brilliant, too.
I think a lot of people may have lost sight of the bigger picture, assuming they ever had a big picture view. Williams very nearly failed a few years back, and they have fought their way back. But in the process they had to sell off a ton of assets, refocus and un-diversify. OTC was a cast off that really didn't have a purpose anymore. We taxpayers got a great price for it and will put it to good use. We can sell off the old buildings for redevelopment and be in pretty great shape. On top that, Williams is in great shape now, too. Things are looking pretty swell, in my opinion.
I don't really see the downside of this deal, except for the fact that it was a
girl who thunk it up. I'm kidding, of course. But some critics, even smart ones, seem want to tar the mayor for this. Why?
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.
What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?
Bueller? Bueller?
Where'd you come up with that number?
And don't forget, also, that the building sat there for sale for years and they could not find a buyer. Sat there more than 1/2 vacant for years and they could not find tenants. And then along came our mayor with her many years of business experience... we'll see how the story ends, but it's not looking like a happy ending for Tulsa's citizens.
I believe $600M was the total cost. $300M for the structure, $300M for the furnishings and finishings.
ROFL Wow, some people will believe anything... Show me one credible source that says that building cost $300 million OR that it cost $300 million to furnish it. Those numbers are insane.
It sold (used) in 2004 for $120M from Williams who packaged it with the rest of wiltel. Can't find the cost of the furnishings but $300M is the estimated cost to build (per Urban Tulsa in an article largely against buying the building)
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.
What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?
Bueller? Bueller?
Where'd you come up with that number?
And don't forget, also, that the building sat there for sale for years and they could not find a buyer. Sat there more than 1/2 vacant for years and they could not find tenants. And then along came our mayor with her many years of business experience... we'll see how the story ends, but it's not looking like a happy ending for Tulsa's citizens.
I believe $600M was the total cost. $300M for the structure, $300M for the furnishings and finishings.
ROFL Wow, some people will believe anything... Show me one credible source that says that building cost $300 million OR that it cost $300 million to furnish it. Those numbers are insane.
It sold (used) in 2004 for $120M from Williams who packaged it with the rest of wiltel. Can't find the cost of the furnishings but $300M is the estimated cost to build (per Urban Tulsa in an article largely against buying the building)
I rather suspect that $300 million (to the extent it is accurate)
includes the furnishings.
Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC? They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl. An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
I rather suspect that $300 million (to the extent it is accurate) includes the furnishings.
That's probably about right, and would make sense. I am interested to tour the place, once it's all set up. If nothing else, the coffee bar/eating facilities will be a step up for the city employees.
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC? They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl. An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?
They use a different elevator bay. The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.
Car break-ins are expected to increase.
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC? They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl. An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?
They use a different elevator bay. The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.
Car break-ins are expected to increase.
Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13. The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15. Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC? They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl. An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?
They use a different elevator bay. The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.
Car break-ins are expected to increase.
Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13. The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15. Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.
Vyvx...keep up
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC? They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl. An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?
They use a different elevator bay. The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.
Car break-ins are expected to increase.
Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13. The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15. Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.
Vyvx...keep up
LOL Well, Smartass, Vyvx is part of Level 3, are they not? Presumably, they are housed in part of Level 3's space in the OTC, since only Level 3 and D&T lease space there.... Now, tell me, if Vyvx is housed on ANY of Level 3's leased floors, how would they have their own elevator bank. Not bloody likely.
I've always wanted my own private elevator. I figure I'll get that about the time . . . I build my own private building.
I wonder if the city will be able to parse down a few of its employees after this? Wont need as many receptionists thats for sure. Every building had at least one, sometimes different floors had one. May not need as many cleaning/maintenance people. Seems they had a security person at many of the buildings too. Perhaps they could use one of them for the parking garage if they forsee a problem there. I hope the Mayor is able to take some of that lean corporate downsizing experience and trim off any "redundancies". Even just getting rid of 3 or 4 people, over the course of 10 years that can add up to a decent sum of money.
A building that has consistently depreciated in value will suddenly become an appreciating asset?
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
I rather suspect that $300 million (to the extent it is accurate) includes the furnishings.
That's probably about right, and would make sense. I am interested to tour the place, once it's all set up. If nothing else, the coffee bar/eating facilities will be a step up for the city employees.
And I'm not really buying that $300 Million number either, furnished or unfurnished.
Here's a decent comparison: The new headquarters building Enron had almost completed, but not occupied at the time of their demise. Built roughly the same time. 40 stories tall (height generally adds a lot to construction costs); 1.2 Million Square Feet (vs. 750,000 in OTC), also VERY high tech (including 4 huge trading floors) and VERY high-end finishes throughout. Total cost: $200 Million. Makes a $100 Million cost for OTC look a whole lot more likely than $300 Million.
I believe there are security card "readers" on the elevators. Presumably, only Level 3 employees would be coded to access Level 3 floors.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC? They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl. An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?
They use a different elevator bay. The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.
Car break-ins are expected to increase.
Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13. The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15. Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.
Vyvx...keep up
LOL Well, Smartass, Vyvx is part of Level 3, are they not? Presumably, they are housed in part of Level 3's space in the OTC, since only Level 3 and D&T lease space there.... Now, tell me, if Vyvx is housed on ANY of Level 3's leased floors, how would they have their own elevator bank. Not bloody likely.
Sharing upper floor elevators with the top floor occupants.
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC? They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl. An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?
They use a different elevator bay. The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.
Car break-ins are expected to increase.
Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13. The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15. Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.
Vyvx...keep up
LOL Well, Smartass, Vyvx is part of Level 3, are they not? Presumably, they are housed in part of Level 3's space in the OTC, since only Level 3 and D&T lease space there.... Now, tell me, if Vyvx is housed on ANY of Level 3's leased floors, how would they have their own elevator bank. Not bloody likely.
Sharing upper floor elevators with the top floor occupants.
???? In other words, they
don't have their own elevator bank...??
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC? They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl. An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?
They use a different elevator bay. The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.
Car break-ins are expected to increase.
Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13. The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15. Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.
Vyvx...keep up
LOL Well, Smartass, Vyvx is part of Level 3, are they not? Presumably, they are housed in part of Level 3's space in the OTC, since only Level 3 and D&T lease space there.... Now, tell me, if Vyvx is housed on ANY of Level 3's leased floors, how would they have their own elevator bank. Not bloody likely.
Sharing upper floor elevators with the top floor occupants.
???? In other words, they don't have their own elevator bank...??
OK, where'd I say "their own"? Are you bleeding about this? From what I understand, and I'm not making the rules about elevator occupation on the building, is that they are sharing a more secure elevator bank than the rest of the building and Level 3. Relax
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC? They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl. An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?
They use a different elevator bay. The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.
Car break-ins are expected to increase.
Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13. The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15. Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.
Vyvx...keep up
LOL Well, Smartass, Vyvx is part of Level 3, are they not? Presumably, they are housed in part of Level 3's space in the OTC, since only Level 3 and D&T lease space there.... Now, tell me, if Vyvx is housed on ANY of Level 3's leased floors, how would they have their own elevator bank. Not bloody likely.
Sharing upper floor elevators with the top floor occupants.
???? In other words, they don't have their own elevator bank...??
OK, where'd I say "their own"? Are you bleeding about this? From what I understand, and I'm not making the rules about elevator occupation on the building, is that they are sharing a more secure elevator bank than the rest of the building and Level 3. Relax
Perhaps you didn't say "their own." But you did say they used a "different elvator bank", i.e. different from the city. since both the city and Level 3 will have floors in both the upper and lower parts of the building, anyone can see they will NOT in fact be using "different elevator banks." Just want to set the record straight and aim for accuracy here, rather than rely on hearsay, imagined, and just plain made-up stuff. Before you respond, relax... ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by Oil CapitalPerhaps you didn't say "their own." But you did say they used a "different elvator bank", i.e. different from the city. since both the city and Level 3 will have floors in both the upper and lower parts of the building, anyone can see they will NOT in fact be using "different elevator banks." Just want to set the record straight and aim for accuracy here, rather than rely on hearsay, imagined, and just plain made-up stuff. Before you respond, relax... ;-)
And then we move on.
One would believe that through the discussions that Williams Brothers spun off its excess through chapter 11 and if one looks through the smoke they might see only the City Hall and Williams Brother's spin offs are the tenants in another sweetheart deal the city is noted for.
Was it not Patrick Henry, when sent to write the Constitution, after looking around the gathering and communicating with the others. is quoted as saying "I smell a rat" and went home?
recyclemichael please help! ^
Could the reason the City got such a good deal on the building is because the engineering firm, hired by the city to check the building prior to purchase, recommended against purchase because they found the building to be 'structurally insufficient.' Those moving are being told all heavy items, such as file cabinets and other heavy items, must be placed in the center of the building because the outlaying areas of each floor can't handle the weight.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Could the reason the City got such a good deal on the building is because the engineering firm, hired by the city to check the building prior to purchase, recommended against purchase because they found the building to be 'structurally insufficient.' Those moving are being told all heavy items, such as file cabinets and other heavy items, must be placed in the center of the building because the outlaying areas of each floor can't handle the weight.
No
Interesting coincidence, I noticed the Staubach Co. also was involved in the Channels (//%22http://www.tulsachannels.com/general.asp?id=91%22). Kinda weird that the Channels website is still up and running.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
recyclemichael please help! ^
I will try to translate this from shadows...
One would believe that through the discussions that Williams Brothers spun off its excess through chapter 11 and if one looks through the smoke they might see only the City Hall and Williams Brother's spin offs are the tenants in another sweetheart deal the city is noted for.
Was it not Patrick Henry, when sent to write the Constitution, after looking around the gathering and communicating with the others. is quoted as saying "I smell a rat" and went home? A couple of brothers named Bill went to a local chapter of a spinning class and ten (or maybe eleven) sweet aunts were dealt a hand of hearts.
Three other writers, guys named Pat, Rick and Hank gathered together and thought they had the constitution to eats rats at home.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Interesting coincidence, I noticed the Staubach Co. also was involved in the Channels (//%22http://www.tulsachannels.com/general.asp?id=91%22). Kinda weird that the Channels website is still up and running.
They don't want to take away Warren's woobie while he's still crying into it.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Interesting coincidence, I noticed the Staubach Co. also was involved in the Channels (//%22http://www.tulsachannels.com/general.asp?id=91%22). Kinda weird that the Channels website is still up and running.
They don't want to take away Warren's woobie while he's still crying into it.
I don't think it will be taken away, makes me wonder if the Channels is really dead? Another interesting coincidence I noticed, the same colors and style of advertising used for the channels is being used by the Our River Yes campaign.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Interesting coincidence, I noticed the Staubach Co. also was involved in the Channels (//%22http://www.tulsachannels.com/general.asp?id=91%22). Kinda weird that the Channels website is still up and running.
They don't want to take away Warren's woobie while he's still crying into it.
I don't think it will be taken away, makes me wonder if the Channels is really dead? Another interesting coincidence I noticed, the same colors and style of advertising used for the channels is being used by the Our River Yes campaign.
They bought color in bulk?
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Interesting coincidence, I noticed the Staubach Co. also was involved in the Channels (//%22http://www.tulsachannels.com/general.asp?id=91%22). Kinda weird that the Channels website is still up and running.
They don't want to take away Warren's woobie while he's still crying into it.
I don't think it will be taken away, makes me wonder if the Channels is really dead? Another interesting coincidence I noticed, the same colors and style of advertising used for the channels is being used by the Our River Yes campaign.
They bought color in bulk?
Just an interesting pattern of coincidences, that's all.
Recycle:
You did not answer the question.
Are the other tenants that are to occupy your glass monstrosity with you and the city a part of the Williams Brothers spin off in their preparing to file the chapter 11 that cancelled their bond obligations to their stock holders?
Any person with the required eight-grade knowledge should be able to understand that.
I don't know. I am not moving my office.
You must be confused.
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
Recycle:
You did not answer the question.
Are the other tenants that are to occupy your glass monstrosity with you and the city a part of the Williams Brothers spin off in their preparing to file the chapter 11 that cancelled their bond obligations to their stock holders?
Any person with the required eight-grade knowledge should be able to understand that.
The Williams spin off no longer exists. Broomfield, CO based Level 3 is in the building
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
recyclemichael please help! ^
I will try to translate this from shadows...
One would believe that through the discussions that Williams Brothers spun off its excess through chapter 11 and if one looks through the smoke they might see only the City Hall and Williams Brother's spin offs are the tenants in another sweetheart deal the city is noted for.
Was it not Patrick Henry, when sent to write the Constitution, after looking around the gathering and communicating with the others. is quoted as saying "I smell a rat" and went home?
A couple of brothers named Bill went to a local chapter of a spinning class and ten (or maybe eleven) sweet aunts were dealt a hand of hearts.
Three other writers, guys named Pat, Rick and Hank gathered together and thought they had the constitution to eats rats at home.
OK good, that's what I thought it said.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
Recycle:
You did not answer the question.
Are the other tenants that are to occupy your glass monstrosity with you and the city a part of the Williams Brothers spin off in their preparing to file the chapter 11 that cancelled their bond obligations to their stock holders?
Any person with the required eight-grade knowledge should be able to understand that.
The Williams spin off no longer exists. Broomfield, CO based Level 3 is in the building
Williams Communications went into chapter 11, were bought by Leucadia (sp?)and then sold off to Level 3. Leucadia kept the Ice Cube but leased space to Level 3. Now that the city has purchased said cube and will expect rents from Level 3 and D&T. Simple.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Interesting coincidence, I noticed the Staubach Co. also was involved in the Channels (//%22http://www.tulsachannels.com/general.asp?id=91%22). Kinda weird that the Channels website is still up and running.
They don't want to take away Warren's woobie while he's still crying into it.
I don't think it will be taken away, makes me wonder if the Channels is really dead? Another interesting coincidence I noticed, the same colors and style of advertising used for the channels is being used by the Our River Yes campaign.
They bought color in bulk?
Just an interesting pattern of coincidences, that's all.
Not a coincidence at all. Those are market research approved, trendy, feel happy, fresh "in" colors.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Not a coincidence at all. Those are market research approved, trendy, feel happy, fresh "in" colors.
That and an association with the same Architect...
funny that.... Still very puzzling.
Kinda like sharing Lawyers I would think.
Carltonplace: thanks for the explanation. There is so much smoke between the paper exchanging and the "good deal" and deleting the stock issue that there is no simple explanation. In time some of the facts may become simple as the smoke clears from the mirrors.