IN a recent speech the Comptroller General of the United States draws parallels between the United States of Today and the Roman Republic of 25 BC.
quote:
As I mentioned earlier, there are striking similarities between America's current situation and that of another great power from the past: Rome. The Roman Empire lasted 1,000 years, but only about half that time as a republic. The Roman Republic fell for many reasons, but three reasons are worth remembering: declining moral values and political civility at home, an overconfident and overextended military in foreign lands, and fiscal irresponsibility by the central government. Sound familiar? In my view, it's time to learn from history and take steps to ensure the American Republic is the first to stand the test of time.
Please don't misunderstand my message today. Things are far from hopeless. Yes, it's going to take some difficult choices on a range of issues. But I'm convinced America will rise to the challenge, just as we did during World War II and other difficult times.
What's needed now is leadership. The kind of leadership that leads to meaningful and lasting change has to be bipartisan and broad-based. Character also counts. We need men and women with courage, integrity, and creativity. Leaders who can partner for progress and are committed to truly and properly discharging their stewardship responsibilities.
But leadership can't just come from Capitol Hill or the White House. Leadership also needs to come from Main Street
Excerpt from a speech to The Federal Midwest Human Resources Council and the Chicago Federal Executive Board Chicago, Illinois August 7, 2007.
http://www.gao.gov/cghome/d071188cg.pdf
Referenced Report:
http://www.gao.gov/21stcentury.html
Article about this subject (serves as an executive summary if you life):
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/80fa0a2c-49ef-11dc-9ffe-0000779fd2ac.html
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Vaaaary interesting. His primary concern: entitlement reform. Much like Rome, the United States is promising its citizens the good life with as little work as possible. Much like Rome, we have sent our armies over seas (in part) to help secure that good life. Much like Rome, we are writing a check future generations can not cash.
Of course, the differences are too numerous to list fully: industrialization, global economy, the corporation, modern innovation (new technology cycle every 20 years, instead of every 400 years), etc.
Interesting analysis anyway, a clearly the man is a very effective public speaker.
[edit]Corrected typo, neglected to enter the year of Roman Republic above[/edit]
I guess Bush is Nero.
Nero was an emperor who reigned some 90 years after the fall of the Roman Republic. He was also popular with the populace, fought a successful war, competed in the Olympic games and negotiated improved relations with several neighboring/conquered states (including Greece). He ruled for 14 years before being forced out and committing suicide.
So other than ruling as emperor after the Republic fell, fighting successful wars, negotiating improved relations with other nations, being an Olympian and being popular - you have a point. Oh yeah, and Nero prosecuted (as well as persecuted, largely as source of blame for the fires of Rome) Christians and Bush promulgates them.
So no. Bush isnt Nero.
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
I guess Bush is Nero.
Wrong Ax Man.... Bush would be Testacleez...
He is on KMOD almost every week....
He drives his point home for Mister Manuel Labor.... He, after all, is the Big Boss Ben Dover....[}:)]
Oh, I thought you'd get the fiddle comparison.
Never mind.[:P]
Washington isn't burning.
Maybe not.
But he's fiddlin' around and doing little else....
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
Maybe not.
But he's fiddlin' around and doing little else....
Well of course he is. No incentive to do much anything else, right?
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
Maybe not.
But he's fiddlin' around and doing little else....
Well of course he is. No incentive to do much anything else, right?
Right....
"Learn from the fall of Rome, US warned"
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/80fa0a2c-49ef-11dc-9ffe-0000779fd2ac.html
"The US government is on a 'burning platform' of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare underfunding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon, the country's top government inspector has warned."
Read up now. It was such a good article it deserved a repost!
Velcome to the Roven Empire....
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
IN a recent speech the Comptroller General of the United States draws parallels between the United States of Today and the Roman Republic of 25 BC.
quote:
As I mentioned earlier, there are striking similarities between America's current situation and that of another great power from the past: Rome. The Roman Empire lasted 1,000 years, but only about half that time as a republic. The Roman Republic fell for many reasons, but three reasons are worth remembering: declining moral values and political civility at home, an overconfident and overextended military in foreign lands, and fiscal irresponsibility by the central government. Sound familiar? In my view, it's time to learn from history and take steps to ensure the American Republic is the first to stand the test of time.
Please don't misunderstand my message today. Things are far from hopeless. Yes, it's going to take some difficult choices on a range of issues. But I'm convinced America will rise to the challenge, just as we did during World War II and other difficult times.
What's needed now is leadership. The kind of leadership that leads to meaningful and lasting change has to be bipartisan and broad-based. Character also counts. We need men and women with courage, integrity, and creativity. Leaders who can partner for progress and are committed to truly and properly discharging their stewardship responsibilities.
But leadership can't just come from Capitol Hill or the White House. Leadership also needs to come from Main Street
Excerpt from a speech to The Federal Midwest Human Resources Council and the Chicago Federal Executive Board Chicago, Illinois August 7, 2007.
http://www.gao.gov/cghome/d071188cg.pdf
Referenced Report:
http://www.gao.gov/21stcentury.html
Article about this subject (serves as an executive summary if you life):
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/80fa0a2c-49ef-11dc-9ffe-0000779fd2ac.html
- - - - -
Vaaaary interesting. His primary concern: entitlement reform. Much like Rome, the United States is promising its citizens the good life with as little work as possible. Much like Rome, we have sent our armies over seas (in part) to help secure that good life. Much like Rome, we are writing a check future generations can not cash.
Of course, the differences are too numerous to list fully: industrialization, global economy, the corporation, modern innovation (new technology cycle every 20 years, instead of every 400 years), etc.
Interesting analysis anyway, a clearly the man is a very effective public speaker.
[edit]Corrected typo, neglected to enter the year of Roman Republic above[/edit]
Won't go that far, but i will say that our influence may tend to wane just a tad.
At best we will end up like the UK, at worst we will be like France. [:P]
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/Conehead.jpg)
I am from France.... and I very much resent your statement..............!
I got lost again in the comparison of Rome with the USA. Seems they kept very little history thus had very few historians. I believe that the republic form of government in Rome was installed in the middle of the 5th B.C. century and expired in the first quarter of the 4th B.C. century from the time it ended until Caesar declared him dictator there seemed to be turmoil within as immigrants were being given citizenship. Caesar was murdered by a conspiracy supposedly by the senate. Next came Tiberius until 37 A.D. followed by Nero who was raised by a philosopher. One might say he was weird as he had his mother and first wife murdered, persecuted the Christians, suspected of arson in the burning of Rome in 64 to commit suicide in 68 after being declared an enemy by the Senate.
That all sounds like the turmoil we are always creating.
On the bright side Rome was the most brutal nation that has been on this planet. They conquered, they plundered, taxed, enslaved, built, and added lead to their gold coins. (bite the coin to test the lead content) In the end they placed themselves on an exalted pedestal, turning to sports and orgy,s.
We might have a hard time filling the foot steps of Rome. We are a step ahead of them on the mixing lead with gold in our coins. We have found out it is a lot cheaper to print it on paper.
quote:
That all sounds like the turmoil we are always creating.
What the hell are you talking about?
I'll try to translate for you IP:
1) Rome had very few historians.
Roman historians abound. Not to mention most politicians and even some soldiers kept journals that survive. Following (envying) the Greek state, it was highly literate and well documented. Though the earlier periods not as much as the later.
2) The Roman Republic lasted from 400-300bc. The Empire took over with Caesar in 44 BC. The time in between is apparently anarchy because "immigrants got citizenship."
The republican form of government lasted up UNTIL Caesar, about 450 years. Or twice as long as our little streak. Immigrants and the conquered were frequently granted citizenship throughout the existence of the Roman state.
3) " Caesar was murdered by a conspiracy supposedly by the senate."
By supposedly I guess he means "In broad daylight during a public session of the Senate." It is well documented by both conspirators, the praetorian guard, historians (Suetonius, Eutropius, as well as Plutarch) as well as bystanders (notably Cicero) document the same event. It is a fact that he was publicly murdered by more than 40 senators.
4) Nero might have been mad.
Nero was certainly mad to some extent. He was probably not the horrible tyrant he is made out to be, but he was surely not a good leader. The persecution of Christians was a matter of convenience (common enemy).
5) On the bright side, Rome was the most brutal civilization...
I think this is sarcasm. Not sure. In any event, its not entirely a true statement. Rome did little in the field of brutality that other nation states failed to do. IN other words, their brutality was par for the course.
6) Turning to Sports and Orgy's
I think he just likes this phrase. He used it against the Greek a while back. I'm thinking he correlates sports and orgy's with the fall of an empire. In spite of the importance of both throughout the history of the Empire. Perhaps he just means excess? Not sure here, that's my guess.
7) Putting lead in their coins.
"I had modern economics and want the gold standard back." Since Rome always used the gold standard, I'm not sure why the correlation really is here. Not to mention Rome had strict laws about currency tampering, adding lead was strictly against the law as the only value of the money was in the metal - not the intrinsic economic value. Read: Rome did not "lead down" their gold coins.
The alloy of lead and gold is a soft mushy one. Not suitable for the making of a coin. Sometimes Roman silver has lead, since lead is a byproduct of the smelting process it was not Sterling pure.
Also, as a side note. Rome suffered from the gold standard. Whenever they completed a great conquest or where paid great bounty, the economy collapsed into a barter system. The influx of gold caused mass inflation - success brought failure. Also, in times of foreign campaigns the expenditure of funds caused a shortage of coins... again leading to barter since they could not get coins to trade with. The empire eventually realized it needed to spend the plunder to employ people and slowly release it into the economy (read central bank like). Funny how even int he gold standard the government controlled the money supply or faced disaster.
- how'd I do?
I'm still trying to figure out how a word of that relates to the US today...which is what he/she/it was saying.
I'm just a translator, not an interpretor.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I'm just a translator, not an interpretor.
Well then...kudos on a job......done. I think we all wonder what shadows is trying to say half the time. It's amazing how clear (even though often incorrect) shadows is in other forum areas, but for some reason he/she/it speaks in quatrains when posting the political section...
The history by journal's were written by a person, like the posts made on this thread, often records only those thing in sight of the writer. Because of the lack of historians, the writing of Shakespeare shows the gathering of history of the empire long after it had expired. Because of the various sparingly recording of their history many assumptions have been made by many writers. It is obvious we are not reading the same text.
I would assume that when it was written all roads lead to Rome, that were lined with the crosses, where the executed were nailed onto them, to rot as a warning to the enemies of the Rome coming down the roads, was a very brutal act.
Gold being the most pliable metal known that can be hammered in sheets as thin as paper would require other metals to be mixed with it in order to make coins.
In looking at the new "VISUAL HISTORY OF THE WORLD" who National Geographic has published, [foreword by Douglas Brinkley] "The monarchy was abolished around 470 B.C. and the Roman Republic was founded." The use the middle of the 5th century B.C. which should have been the about in the last three quarters of the 5th century.
He writes "As early as 327-326 B.C. there were departures from the annuity in times of crisis" I believe this could be used as in the first quarter of the 4th century the republic started to degenerate.
It was the Jew who recorded the events of the ministry of Jesus and the events of his death, not the Romans.
The relationship of the events of the Romans and USA are quoted at the beginning of this thread.
Your turn IP, translation...