Mayor Taylor has renominated Meredith Siegfried to our Airports Authority.
Given all the problems associated with TAA/TAIT, it seems this should be scrutinized openly by this forum and our City Council.
Here's some reference material (//%22http://meeciteewurkor.com/wp/2007/08/07/x-siegfried-for-tulsa-taatait/#more-1974%22)
Ms. Siegfried is a board member with Nordam by birthright, not necessarily merit.
She's a board member of the TAA likely due to political patronage.
I like the suggestion of having an "at large" member chosen from the nearby airport residents.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Ms. Siegfried is a board member with Nordam by birthright, not necessarily merit.
I didn't want to say that, but I agree with you...
No.
This issue should be receiving a significant amount of debate. It should be of huge interest to everyone in the region.
Because it hasn't indicates, to me, a large group swallow and throat clearing, followed by humming to oneselves.
Doesn't appear to be much support for the Mayor here, in a Mayor-friendly environment.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
This issue should be receiving a significant amount of debate. It should be of huge interest to everyone in the region.
Because it hasn't indicates, to me, a large group swallow and throat clearing, followed by humming to oneselves.
Doesn't appear to be much support for the Mayor here, in a Mayor-friendly environment.
As a public policy issue, I think adding someone from the airport Users Group would be a fine replacement for Ms. Siegfiend.
The Siegfiend Family has been trying to mine the pockets of local taxpayers since as least as far back as the 1997
The Tulsa Project, an earlier manifestation of the Vision 2025 Tax-and-Spend Scheme.
A major feature of the
Tulsa Project was the buyout of Nordam's downtown plant, a veritable Toxic Waste site.
Their newer main plant is now located out north in an industrial park, and the downtown location plant is kept in operation by a skeleton crew of personnel.
Why?
By keeping the site in operation, it forestalls the EPA Pollution CLEAN-UP requirement for all the toxic pollution caused to the site over the decades of usage.
Since this site comprises largely what is being promoted as the
East Village Development, it makes ones wonder what
back-room machinations are occuring to first transfer the
ENVIRONMENTAL LIABILITY from Nordam to a city governmental authority for "laundering" of the same said environmental liability, and then the immediatly subsequent re-sale to private developers.
Let's see how the taxpayer hosing may be planned:
1. City Authority first OVERPAYS for the Nordam Plant Toxic Waste site.
2. City Authority assumes the future environmental liability and future clean-up COSTS.
3. City Authority then re-sells the Nordam Plant for a fraction of what they earlier paid for it.
For an anticipated thrice-fold hosing of the taxpayer.
Siegfiend?
Sieg Heil!
I don't see any relevance of someone from Nordam being on the board, unless storing a few Gulfstreams at the airport counts.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I don't see any relevance of someone from Nordam being on the board, unless storing a few Gulfstreams at the airport counts.
How say we say it concerning the Siegfiend inherited membership on TAIT?
Ius Primae Noctis ?
Un Droit de Seigneur?
Un certain "Je ne sais quois":
First Night.
And,
WE'RE THE NEW BLUSHING BRIDE....[:O]
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
This issue should be receiving a significant amount of debate. It should be of huge interest to everyone in the region.
Because it hasn't indicates, to me, a large group swallow and throat clearing, followed by humming to oneselves.
Doesn't appear to be much support for the Mayor here, in a Mayor-friendly environment.
As a public policy issue, I think adding someone from the airport Users Group would be a fine replacement for Ms. Siegfiend.
The Siegfiend Family has been trying to mine the pockets of local taxpayers since as least as far back as the 1997 The Tulsa Project, an earlier manifestation of the Vision 2025 Tax-and-Spend Scheme.
A major feature of the Tulsa Project was the buyout of Nordam's downtown plant, a veritable Toxic Waste site.
Their newer main plant is now located out north in an industrial park, and the downtown location plant is kept in operation by a skeleton crew of personnel.
Why?
By keeping the site in operation, it forestalls the EPA Pollution CLEAN-UP requirement for all the toxic pollution caused to the site over the decades of usage.
Since this site comprises largely what is being promoted as the East Village Development, it makes ones wonder what back-room machinations are occuring to first transfer the ENVIRONMENTAL LIABILITY from Nordam to a city governmental authority for "laundering" of the same said environmental liability, and then the immediatly subsequent re-sale to private developers.
Let's see how the taxpayer hosing may be planned:
1. City Authority first OVERPAYS for the Nordam Plant Toxic Waste site.
2. City Authority assumes the future environmental liability and future clean-up COSTS.
3. City Authority then re-sells the Nordam Plant for a fraction of what they earlier paid for it.
For an anticipated thrice-fold hosing of the taxpayer.
Siegfiend?
Sieg Heil!
Maybe they should just start injecting their waste into the same aquifer that AA puts theirs in...[;)]
Bump.
...it's getting closer.
I hope the refineries are watching the process and taking notes. Maybe we could do the same transfer of liability for them ...only transfer the liability for cleanup to the state or federal authorities.
With Vision 2025 funds American Airlines constructed a new state of the art industrial pre-treatment plant and lab to treat monitor and test the industrial waste water generated at the Tulsa Maintenance Base. with these facilities operating this TREATED waste water is now it is discharged (by strict permit) into a new sanitary sewer main that the City of Tulsa constructed to the East side of the airport industrial area which is serving this side of the airport which includes the new East side aerospace industrial development area.
Previous to these improvements this waste stream was pumped into what are NOW CLOSED injection wells.
What sucks about the AA grant to build a waste water treatment system is that many smaller, but vital plating and metal finishing operations went out of business over the years because they could not afford to install a WWT system and there was ZERO help from the state, city, or county. AA could have easily paid for this upgrade out of their own funds.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
What sucks about the AA grant to build a waste water treatment system is that many smaller, but vital plating and metal finishing operations went out of business over the years because they could not afford to install a WWT system and there was ZERO help from the state, city, or county. AA could have easily paid for this upgrade out of their own funds.
Obviously anything I say or input you will have issue with[B)]. In this instance, I was simply correcting an errant post and pointing out that AA has done more than just add tooling.
With these particular improvements they (AA) provided an added benefit to the community and our enviroment by developing a long term solution to the waste stream they generate in the course of being the areas largest employer and yes closing injection wells with funds provided to them by an overwhelming majority vote of Tulsa County... but from following this site and responding to comments over the past couple of years I fully understand that many who are the most active on this site simply can't accept that Vision 2025 did in fact PASS[:(!].
Thank you for posting the correct information about American Airlines and their waste treatment upgrades.
I used this as one of the reasons I supported the entire project.
There are other injection wells still being used in Tulsa County.
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
What sucks about the AA grant to build a waste water treatment system is that many smaller, but vital plating and metal finishing operations went out of business over the years because they could not afford to install a WWT system and there was ZERO help from the state, city, or county. AA could have easily paid for this upgrade out of their own funds.
Obviously anything I say or input you will have issue with[B)]. In this instance, I was simply correcting an errant post and pointing out that AA has done more than just add tooling.
With these particular improvements they (AA) provided an added benefit to the community and our enviroment by developing a long term solution to the waste stream they generate in the course of being the areas largest employer and yes closing injection wells with funds provided to them by an overwhelming majority vote of Tulsa County... but from following this site and responding to comments over the past couple of years I fully understand that many who are the most active on this site simply can't accept that Vision 2025 did in fact PASS[:(!].
A responsible, good neighbor would have spent his own money to clean up after himself instead of asking the public to do it at their cost. Just because they're the largest employer doesn't negate their responsibility for cleaning up after themselves. Once again, other than Recylemike, how many people knew we were paying for AA to flush their own toilet.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
What sucks about the AA grant to build a waste water treatment system is that many smaller, but vital plating and metal finishing operations went out of business over the years because they could not afford to install a WWT system and there was ZERO help from the state, city, or county. AA could have easily paid for this upgrade out of their own funds.
Obviously anything I say or input you will have issue with[B)]. In this instance, I was simply correcting an errant post and pointing out that AA has done more than just add tooling.
With these particular improvements they (AA) provided an added benefit to the community and our enviroment by developing a long term solution to the waste stream they generate in the course of being the areas largest employer and yes closing injection wells with funds provided to them by an overwhelming majority vote of Tulsa County... but from following this site and responding to comments over the past couple of years I fully understand that many who are the most active on this site simply can't accept that Vision 2025 did in fact PASS[:(!].
A responsible, good neighbor would have spent his own money to clean up after himself instead of asking the public to do it at their cost. Just because they're the largest employer doesn't negate their responsibility for cleaning up after themselves. Once again, other than Recylemike, how many people knew we were paying for AA to flush their own toilet.
AA management asked if we thought this was suitable use Vision funds before proceeding with this multi million dollar environmental improvement. It was enthusiastically approved because it went much farther than simply qualifying for Vision funding as a capital project that enhanced the Tulsa Base either by stabilizing existing jobs or by enhancing the potential for new work it went a long way towards being a good steward as those wells had a couple of years still on the permit and they were not all that deep.
Once again, no good deed goes unpunished... especially around here.
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
What sucks about the AA grant to build a waste water treatment system is that many smaller, but vital plating and metal finishing operations went out of business over the years because they could not afford to install a WWT system and there was ZERO help from the state, city, or county. AA could have easily paid for this upgrade out of their own funds.
Obviously anything I say or input you will have issue with[B)]. In this instance, I was simply correcting an errant post and pointing out that AA has done more than just add tooling.
With these particular improvements they (AA) provided an added benefit to the community and our enviroment by developing a long term solution to the waste stream they generate in the course of being the areas largest employer and yes closing injection wells with funds provided to them by an overwhelming majority vote of Tulsa County... but from following this site and responding to comments over the past couple of years I fully understand that many who are the most active on this site simply can't accept that Vision 2025 did in fact PASS[:(!].
I don't know how you wound up with such cynical comments toward me. I didn't once say that "Vision 20/25 is indicative of the prevailing myopia of this area." I'm not a consistent naysayer of V-2025, but there are some vagaries in this plan that leave a lot of us in the dark as to what was intended and what is actually being delivered.
AA had an impending obligation when their permit expired. They could have easily done what every other major aerospace company has had to do around the country and build their own WWT system with their own money. The taxpayers had no obligation to fund the improvements. AA wasn't going to leave town over having to fund their own in-house WWT plant.
We are going to wind up with some great things from V-2025, but you will have to pardon me if there are people like Waterboy and myself who are miffed that many other companies who used to employ Tulsans and bring money into the local economy have vanished because they weren't given funds nor any sort of governmetal cooperation to make necessary improvements in order to stay in business.
quote:
I fully understand that many who are the most active on this site simply can't accept that Vision 2025 did in fact PASS[:(!].
Nice end zone dance.
Care to jump over to any of the various river tax/development threads and explain to us plebes what the low water dam funding entailed in V-2025?
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
What sucks about the AA grant to build a waste water treatment system is that many smaller, but vital plating and metal finishing operations went out of business over the years because they could not afford to install a WWT system and there was ZERO help from the state, city, or county. AA could have easily paid for this upgrade out of their own funds.
Obviously anything I say or input you will have issue with[B)]. In this instance, I was simply correcting an errant post and pointing out that AA has done more than just add tooling.
With these particular improvements they (AA) provided an added benefit to the community and our enviroment by developing a long term solution to the waste stream they generate in the course of being the areas largest employer and yes closing injection wells with funds provided to them by an overwhelming majority vote of Tulsa County... but from following this site and responding to comments over the past couple of years I fully understand that many who are the most active on this site simply can't accept that Vision 2025 did in fact PASS[:(!].
A responsible, good neighbor would have spent his own money to clean up after himself instead of asking the public to do it at their cost. Just because they're the largest employer doesn't negate their responsibility for cleaning up after themselves. Once again, other than Recylemike, how many people knew we were paying for AA to flush their own toilet.
AA management asked if we thought this was suitable use Vision funds before proceeding with this multi million dollar environmental improvement. It was enthusiastically approved because it went much farther than simply qualifying for Vision funding as a capital project that enhanced the Tulsa Base either by stabilizing existing jobs or by enhancing the potential for new work it went a long way towards being a good steward as those wells had a couple of years still on the permit and they were not all that deep.
Once again, no good deed goes unpunished... especially around here.
Especially good deeds like that one. My heart pumps peanut butter for you. All you good hearted stewards wanted to do was respond enthusiastically to one of the big boys who didn't need the money, but saw the trough being built and probably thought, "might as well ask...".
From the day AA moved to Tulsa there has been a quite sucking of the taxpayer fund all in the name of progress. Even the providing of 90 some million dollars in revenue bonds for completion of facilities in another state. At present I believe that the taxpayer subsidizes the water and electricity used. The burbs are very happy with the arrangement as most of the employees make their homes there.
One can just see an official of AA asking the distributors of the 2025 money if it was alright for them to take it.
.
The majority of the taxpayers voted for 2025 but they surely did not read what it could be used for.
Vision 2025 did indeed pass, I voted for it. I still support it. I support the river tax (I think).
And I knew a large sum of money was being given to AA for capital improvements. But it was sold as a measure to bring more jobs to Tulsa (especially the Dreamliner business). Though it may have been in the writing, it certainly was not sold as a way to pay for AA to enter the 20th century and treat their waste water. That might not have necessarily deterred me, but I'm afraid I agree with the assessment that this was a handout to get AA to where they should have been to start with. (And hey, can my company have a few million if I increase my employment by 3% and promise not to fire too many people? We even had to pay for our own drainage system when we expanded.)
I guess I might just be disgruntled because I hate AA's "service" and get screwed by them all the time. Add to that their extraction of funds from our citizens under threat of losing jobs and I get more aggravated. Too bad we are so heavily invested and committed to them, they seem like a corporate citizen we could do without (anyone from AA reading this, feel free to step up and fund the renovation of the old Arena if you want to disprove me).
I do appreciate your presence though 2025... good to get an insiders view. Do pop over to the river thread, I'm confused by that and I dont know if its because I wasnt paying attention or what.
It's on the Agenda for this Thursday's Council Meeting, item 2D (//%22http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Agendas/agendax.asp?FN=00148250&num=1%22).
I vote "NO".
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Vision 2025 did indeed pass, I voted for it. I still support it. I support the river tax (I think).
And I knew a large sum of money was being given to AA for capital improvements. But it was sold as a measure to bring more jobs to Tulsa (especially the Dreamliner business). Though it may have been in the writing, it certainly was not sold as a way to pay for AA to enter the 20th century and treat their waste water. That might not have necessarily deterred me, but I'm afraid I agree with the assessment that this was a handout to get AA to where they should have been to start with. (And hey, can my company have a few million if I increase my employment by 3% and promise not to fire too many people? We even had to pay for our own drainage system when we expanded.)
I guess I might just be disgruntled because I hate AA's "service" and get screwed by them all the time. Add to that their extraction of funds from our citizens under threat of losing jobs and I get more aggravated. Too bad we are so heavily invested and committed to them, they seem like a corporate citizen we could do without (anyone from AA reading this, feel free to step up and fund the renovation of the old Arena if you want to disprove me).
I do appreciate your presence though 2025... good to get an insiders view. Do pop over to the river thread, I'm confused by that and I dont know if its because I wasnt paying attention or what.
To the last paragraph: Thank you and I will see if I can answer some river questions.
Tonight's the night.