I'm not sure how many of you live over by the 3rd street & Delaware crossing, but the University of Tulsa is taking it's sweet time re-opening that area. Uneven roads and cruddy redirection of traffic is driving me insane!
Also, they've turned Delaware into a 2 lane road instead of 4, just so they can put in a few freaking plants.
It sure is nice that TU gets to do whatever the heck they want. I hope the new dorms they put in fall apart due to cheap construction.
I like the two lane roads...makes it feel more like a walkable campus.
I quit driving down Delaware years ago. The college kids just step off the curb in front of your car. So, of course, I would speed up.
They should probably just make it limited access, like the street that runs through OSU campus.
One thing that seems to be missing on the TU campus is an area where the students can be in a walkable, sociable, interactive area. You would kind of hope something like that would develop naturally on the South side of 11th. And to some extent there is the occasional coffe house etc. that springs up. The new apartments could have been a prime opportunity to build that "Collegiate Village" environment but to me they just come across as looking like an apartment complex. Will have to see how it all plays out when its done, but doesn't look that promising. I think the apartments are a great addition and am glad to see TU expanding. But in their next phase of expansion I would really hope they do something more along these lines....
This is a rendering of what they are adding to the Duke campus. And yes I know they have a lot more money than TU does lol. But just to show the general idea of what I am talking about with a campus restaurant, bookstores, internet cafes, club house, gym, etc. set up along street like avenues with housing above.
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8408/duke01centralcampus1lghk2.jpg)
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4927/duke02centralcampus2lgdp7.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by darkspectre
I'm not sure how many of you live over by the 3rd street & Delaware crossing, but the University of Tulsa is taking it's sweet time re-opening that area. Uneven roads and cruddy redirection of traffic is driving me insane!
Also, they've turned Delaware into a 2 lane road instead of 4, just so they can put in a few freaking plants.
It sure is nice that TU gets to do whatever the heck they want. I hope the new dorms they put in fall apart due to cheap construction.
Excuse me, but TU is not the entity in charge of the Delaware Avenue project--That would be the City of Tulsa. TU had input on design, but limited at best, and are not involved in construction. So if you have construction quibbles, don't blame TU. Do you really think that TU would
choose to have one of its main access roads shut off to students, faculty, guests and sporting events for extended periods of time?
Did you attend TU? If so, you'd know that trying to cross Delaware is a death wish with all the speeding, inattentive drivers (the speed limit is NOT 50), so I, along with the 4,500 other students, am grateful that it's being turned into a 2-lane road with an even lower speed limit. And you might think plants are stupid but they add aesthetics and charm to the area. Plus, trees can help reduce the heat island effect when planted near roads, which is always a benefit.
As for "cheap construction" on the new "dorms", which are actually apartments, I doubt you've taken a look-see inside any of them. Based on my experiences, they're nicer than a lot of apartments in town. They have quality cabinetry and nicely-appointed kitchens and baths that make some of the apartments here in Tulsa look like a joke. Note: Not all, but some.
Here are some pictures of an unfinished one:
And TU doesn't have a
carte blanche. They don't just get to do whatever they want.
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1149/724615332_511c2560bb.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1211/723743107_884016ee57.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1256/723742543_36df0b61df.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1314/723741959_7c76f86598.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1151/723742805_dcdd486219.jpg?v=0)
Bottom line, it's not TU's fault that Delaware is still closed. Write the City of Tulsa.
From my front porch I can see the dorms at 3rd and Delaware. Delaware is a major corridor for most of the people on this side of 11th street that do not want to have to drive out of our way just to get home.
Frankly, I could care less about TU students and the way they cross the street. Most of the time they are walking(on in some cases, running) directly in front of traffic heading down this CITY street. I accept the fact that they put in the extra stop light there for student to cross, but I can follow traffic rules. They cannot.
There are also the students that play soccer on that eye-sore of a field they put in right next to 6th and Delaware that always seem to be running back and forth towards the road. Very distracting.
I didn't have mommy and daddy buy my way to college, and I could care less if you or any of the 4,500 other students at that campus worked your way just to be accepted. Just because you go to college doesn't mean that traffic bends to you.
And yes, I did write the City of Tulsa about this. I've received no answer yet, but I accept this being that our city could care less about what I have to say on the matter. TU gets carte blanche as long as the City does whatever tell them to do.
quote:
Originally posted by DScott28604
Quote
Excuse me, but TU is not the entity in charge of the Delaware Avenue project--That would be the City of Tulsa. TU had input on design, but limited at best, and are not involved in construction.
Yes, TU had input on the design and they even had a meeting for public comments. Two of the attendees are knowledgeable bicycling advocates who pointed out that the inclusion of bikelanes was not only a bad idea, it was contrary to the city's own bicycle master plan. They were soundly ignored. TU's planners got their way regardless of citizen input. The university pulled the strings and Public Works danced.
quote:
Originally posted by darkspectre
There are also the students that play soccer on that eye-sore of a field they put in right next to 6th and Delaware that always seem to be running back and forth towards the road. Very distracting.
I didn't have mommy and daddy buy my way to college, and I could care less if you or any of the 4,500 other students at that campus worked your way just to be accepted. Just because you go to college doesn't mean that traffic bends to you.
Waaaaa, boo hoo
I can imagine that TU had heavy input in the redesign of Delaware. I can't imagine the City proactively going in and doing traffic calming although I hope that is changing.
It's all a matter of which type of environment you want for your city. I prefer a city that doesn't premise it's mobility on the automobile. I prefer better streets over bigger streets. Streets can move cars/truck efficiently without completely sacraficing other modes of mobility, without decapitating one neighborhood from another, without killing the way a place looks and feels.
I can imagine that that stretch of Delaware feels much better to be in now (or when it's finally completed): slower cars, better sidewalks, trees. I bet it feels safer too; for both people walking and people driving. God forbid we want a more walkable environment around a college campus and heaven forbid we actually not create driving environments that allow people to rip/zip through a place and have absolutely no connection with it...hmmm maybe that's one reason people are so damn apathetic around here...they go from bed to car to cubicle back to car to the tv and back to bed to get up and do it all over again...while they are in their car and out in the City they have zip/zero connection with their surroundings...it's hard to when you are flying through 30-50 mph or at a stop light staring at the car in front of you waiting start zipping again. So no wonder people don't give a s*** how a place actually looks and functions beyond allowing them to drive as fast as they want.
Next time you drive through there slow down, roll down your windows and enjoy the space...you may appreciate it.
I attended some of the meetings where TU took credit for specifying the streetlighting, and how proud they were of how neat they looked in the daytime.
Pretty lights arent always the most efficient, but these were so bad they had to install 3-4 decorative lights for each standard one they replaced. Of course, the city picks up the tab for the 3-4X electricity and maintenance on the city streets.
Who needs pools open in the summer, anyway?
quote:
Originally posted by darkspectre
Frankly, I could care less about TU students and the way they cross the street.
I think that's apparent.
quote:
There are also the students that play soccer on that eye-sore of a field they put in right next to 6th and Delaware that always seem to be running back and forth towards the road. Very distracting.
Poor thing, a well-maintained soccer field. If drivers watch the road, they need not worry about (gasp) people in a field.
quote:
I didn't have mommy and daddy buy my way to college, and I could care less if you or any of the 4,500 other students at that campus worked your way just to be accepted.
You could care less, but most of us work our butts off not just to be accepted but because we want a solid education. My parents aren't paying a single dime because of my work.
quote:
Just because you go to college doesn't mean that traffic bends to you.
You know, you're right on this point. It's not the college that does it, it's the act of being a
pedestrian that does it.
quote:
And yes, I did write the City of Tulsa about this. I've received no answer yet, but I accept this being that our city could care less about what I have to say on the matter. TU gets carte blanche as long as the City does whatever tell them to do.
What exactly is your original "problem" again? Slow reconstruction? That's life. This is Oklahoma- Weather happens. Delays happen.
I hope you enjoy the new trees, landscaping and smoother ride down Delaware.
I love the threads that complain that Tulsa doesnt have any "real colleges," the ones that complain Tulsa cannot attract residents, complaints that there is nothing to do in this town or that all of our teams are "B league teams for a B league city," the tidbits that lament the poor education, and even the ones that argue that no one ever has a reason to come to this city. These threads are in equal proportion to the ones that bash TU as a "monster eating 11th" or some elitist bastion of evil.
I'm sorry for the confusion, but it seems to me that the University of Tulsa helps answer a lot of those problems. It provides a staggering number of good jobs. Brings notoriety and name recognition to the city. Provides an elite pool of educated individuals - especially in the field of petroleum engineering. Exposes 1,500 new, young, and educated people per year to living in Tulsa. Provides TOP NOTCH sports teams, lectures, performances, and other entertainment at unbelievably reasonable prices to the community. Donates MILLIONS. Organizes volunteer efforts, blood drives, and adopts schools. Brings thousands of people to Tulsa for games, conferences, lectures, interviews, job fairs, and so on. Provides a barrier stopping the disease of urban decay from wondering into midtown. Provides entrepreneurial, legal, and many other workshops to help local businesses get established, residents retain their rights, and the community to improve as a whole. Pumps hundreds of millions into the local economy. And on and on and on.
And you complain because of road construction?
I'm guessing you also moved across the street from a Division 1 football stadium and moan about the traffic on game days.
quote:
Originally posted by darkspectre
[brFrankly, I could care less about TU students and the way they cross the street. Most of the time they are walking(on in some cases, running) directly in front of traffic heading down this CITY street.
Again, you moved near a college. College students are not known for their candor towards traffic while on campus. Thank god you don't live in Norman or Stillwater (or Austin, College Station, Manhattan,Lawrence, Ames...) where college student slalom is just part of driving. It isnt ideal, but it also is not more than a minor inconvenience. I drove that street daily for 3 years and never had a real problem... perhaps you could go 3 block out of your way to Harvard if it is such a big deal for you.
quote:
There are also the students that play soccer on that eye-sore of a field they put in right next to 6th and Delaware that always seem to be running back and forth towards the road. Very distracting.
You are actually complaining that the University installed green space for kids to play soccer? Wow. There is a softball field just down the street, is that a problem? Near my house Eisenhower has a playground right near the road, can you believe that. Up and down riverside there is nothing but huge distracting parks with people running and biking all over. Union even has the nerve to put an entire football stadium and practice field just of the street.
Seriously, when you start complaining about TU providing fields for kids to play soccer on, your just displaying your angst towards the institution in general.
quote:
I didn't have mommy and daddy buy my way to college, and I could care less if you or any of the 4,500 other students at that campus worked your way just to be accepted.
Neither did I. I worked my way into school there and THEN paid my way. Just like most of the people I know that went to school there. But thanks for telling me (again) that you don't care. It seems by virtue of taking the time to bring it up that you do care on some level.
quote:
Just because you go to college doesn't mean that traffic bends to you.
You are correct. But as Tulsa strives to get walkable neighborhoods and more urban areas you will have to get used to it. Just like how traffic laws bend when you are downtown, they tend to do the same around college campuses. This is not unique to U of Tulsa and should not come as any surprise. It is a fact in any area with a high percentage of people on foot and even more so near a college campus.
Pedestrians do, after all, have the right of way.
quote:
but I accept this being that our city could care less about what I have to say on the matter.
Well, you could care less about the 6,000 people that are on that campus every day and the city could care less about you. Sounds fair.
Way to tell it Cannon.[8D]
To Cannon, in the voice of Borat: "High five!"
I took some photos today of the mess, and as you can clearly see (heavy sarcasm here) there's absolutely NO work being done on the road by anyone (and one of the photos even includes that eyesore of a soccer field!):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dscott28604/782784940
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1426/782784940_4e074eab23.jpg)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dscott28604/781905585
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1219/781905585_81ecdc431e.jpg)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dscott28604/781907901
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1107/781907901_13465b373c.jpg?)
Anyone who owns a home in the area, like me, should be delighted that street improvements are being made, even at a slight inconvenience. I look forward to a landscaped boulevard to replace the four very narrow lanes of bumps and potholes that it will replace.
I drive that way almost every day, and that road has been crap for a long time, and it barely fits 2 cars next to each other anyway.
If you do own your home, and you complain about TU making or facilitating improvements in the area, you're stupid. It will only increase your home value.
If you rent, well, then move.
Good call Canon. As a TU grad, it pisses me off when I hear people bash Tulsa higher education.
Looks like Delaware Ave. is open to traffic now and I think it looks fantastic. The city and TU did a great job on this. It definitely feels like you're on campus when driving down Delaware. Anyone else have opinions? Maybe DScott or someone could post some pics?
+1
It looks very nice and makes for better traffic flow. The 1 and a half lanes of traffic that were there caused more problems than it was worth (not really 2 lanes in the condition it was in).
If only we could get rid of that pesky college the area would be nearly perfect... [;)]
As an "old" TU grad, I agree with the Artist that a "walkable village" adjacent to TU would be a terrific addition to the campus. I don't know how far TU's land acquisition plan stretches, but I could see a lot of possibilities for a developer willing to invest in such a concept.
Do TU students have a local bar to call their own, now that JR's is gone? Where do students go for milkshakes and burgers without the Metro Diner? And they lost a cool coffeeshop when Saffron went out of business. Imagine an area that would cater to the needs of students, professors and staff in a cool, funky, easy-to-walk to place. (Not a strip mall.)
The yellow-bike thing seems to be working well on campus, and it would be great if TU would not just encourage students to bike from place to place, but encourage development that allows for this. I agree that the apartments make for nice student living, but they do look like any other suburban apartments in town. Something along the lines of urban brownstone (ok, sandstone) walkups would have been even better.
And I have to agree with Patric that the street lighting is terrible. When I've been on campus at night since the "attractive" acorn lights were installed, I find myself squinting to try to make out campus landmarks. It's very disorienting. The glare is so bright, I can't see anything but the cold, blue light eminating from these fixtures. And it makes it hard to see pedestrians crossing the road at night. (It also makes the campus look like something from a science fiction movie... not the warm and welcoming place the campus really is.)
I actually talked to the guy at TU who is in charge of installing the lights, and he said that the regents selected these lights and thought that the blue light made the buildings look "cleaner." So sad.
Still, TU is a great addition to the community, and I'm proud to be a TU grad. I regularly attend free music concerts and lectures, and also attend plays and sporting events. People need to wake up and realize what a gem TU is...and how much it offers to the community...and that you don't have to be a student to benefit.
quote:
Originally posted by bacjz00
Looks like Delaware Ave. is open to traffic now and I think it looks fantastic. The city and TU did a great job on this. It definitely feels like you're on campus when driving down Delaware. Anyone else have opinions? Maybe DScott or someone could post some pics?
I'll take pics as soon as I can... They're striping the road this week, but I leave for Italy on Thursday, so it'll probably be after the first of the year before I get the pics up (I return from Italy on 10 Jan).
The road is MUCH improved in terms of pavement, etc., BUT... the timing on the traffic signals is absolutely awful. The light at 6th St. which is used ONLY as a pedestrian crossing light, should remain green until a pedestrian presses the 'cross' button. All the light does right now is cause unnecessary backups.
Other than traffic light timing, I LOVE the new road. It sure makes traveling easier! :D[:D]
I'll agree it looks nice and is a more walkable environment. Fine for a 'campus'. But, TU did still obscond a major 4-lane throughfare to I-244 for midtowners north of the BA.
And, they also participated, and greatly benefited in the Kendel-Whittier School bond marketing, as though it the more major plan for TU rather than the KW district/Tulsa in general.
Overall a fairly good example of a win-win deal, but performed in backroom negotiations out of public view/process/acceptance.
I'm not of the school which suggests those doing all this dealing are always wrong, just that the process gets violated so frequently in so many ways.
Not once, that I know of, was anyone in the public asked about turning an existing 4-lane road to 2-lane, it just got done.
Basically, TU now owns it. But, we paid for it and will continue to indefinitely. Next, guard shacks and gates during limited hours (my prediction).
This thread cracks me up.
quote:
Wrinkle 12/18/07: Next, guard shacks and gates during limited hours (my prediction).
Wha'd I win for earliest prediction come true?
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9887/barnesondelaware2008010hi6.png)
Source: Public Works Committee Agenda 2008-01-08 (//%22http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Agendas/agendax.asp?FN=00011CA4&num=2%22)
And, thank you Ms. Barnes, soon-to-be former councilor.
I think that would mean no heavy trucks, so as to avoid having to redo the whole thing 10 years from now because of wear.
That's what it means to me also, weight restrictions. Which would cause Tulsa to have deliveries re-routed in some instances.
FYI - I drove down the road the other day without paying anything to the University of Tulsa. In fact, a campus security guard had to yield for me at an intersection. The new "owners" sure are being nice allowing everyone else unrestricted access to their new road.
And 4 lane road? Really? Did you ever drive on that thing? At best it was 3 lanes as maybe you could get by with passing but there is no way 4 cars could pass each other at the same time. Anyone that says it was better off before is simply looking for something to complain about towards TU.
Man, life would be miserable for you in Norman, Stillwater, Manhattan, Lawrence, Fayetteville... or other towns that totally yield to the University - instead of allowing input in a small radius next door to it.
TU chose to acquire the land on the west side of Delaware Avenue and cross a public street. I don't believe it is right for them to have complete control over a specific section of road just because it lies between sections of campus.
Again, it isn't "their" road. Technically everyone in the City of Tulsa is "the owner." The cost of this road will come out of our pockets for years to come.
Bash ahoy!
I was attempting sarcasm to the above posts. Apparently I failed.
The University has no control over that road that a any large employer would not have over a road that they encompass.
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
I think that would mean no heavy trucks, so as to avoid having to redo the whole thing 10 years from now because of wear.
You mean they did all that planning and construction without any spec for anticipated traffic?
Besides, I think all 2-lane roads, by default, have weight/axle restrictions throughout the city.
No, this is about 'vehicles', the kind you and I drive.
Was anyone at the meeting?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
That's what it means to me also, weight restrictions. Which would cause Tulsa to have deliveries re-routed in some instances.
FYI - I drove down the road the other day without paying anything to the University of Tulsa. In fact, a campus security guard had to yield for me at an intersection. The new "owners" sure are being nice allowing everyone else unrestricted access to their new road.
And 4 lane road? Really? Did you ever drive on that thing? At best it was 3 lanes as maybe you could get by with passing but there is no way 4 cars could pass each other at the same time. Anyone that says it was better off before is simply looking for something to complain about towards TU.
Man, life would be miserable for you in Norman, Stillwater, Manhattan, Lawrence, Fayetteville... or other towns that totally yield to the University - instead of allowing input in a small radius next door to it.
It was not the best 4-lane road, which is why I was so happy to see it being worked upon. I thought, yeah, straighten that sucker out, and widen the lanes, add a bike path, remove bumps.
With all the adjacent construction, apartments, soccer fields, tennis courts, athletic center, there was ample opportunity to take the kinks out of the road.
Wasn't 'til much later it became apparent other plans were in process.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
Besides, I think all 2-lane roads, by default, have weight/axle restrictions throughout the city.
I know that not to be true. Most of the roads in the industrial areas are 2 lanes. Toledo, 36th North, Tulsa Port of Catoosa, near AA at the airport, former Ford plant, going to the refineries...
But I was not at the meeting. Talk to me when they add gates - I'm still convinced you just hate TU.
quote:
Originally posted by bacjz00
Looks like Delaware Ave. is open to traffic now and I think it looks fantastic. The city and TU did a great job on this. It definitely feels like you're on campus when driving down Delaware. Anyone else have opinions? Maybe DScott or someone could post some pics?
From 3 January 2008:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2049/2164361401_7e7406385a.jpg) (//%22http://www.flickr.com/photos/ezeiza/2164361401/%22)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2079/2164499165_a3cd3fe659.jpg) (//%22http://www.flickr.com/photos/ezeiza/2164499165/%22)
It does look nice. Its amazing the tranformation TU has been going through recently. Its finally starting to look and feel like a full fledged university campus. I definitely think it will help them attract more quality students. Its going to be interesting to watch the front entrance get finished and the stadium remodel this year.