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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: Conan71 on June 04, 2007, 04:36:49 PM

Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Conan71 on June 04, 2007, 04:36:49 PM
From Wa Po (//%22http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/04/AR2007060400714.html?referrer=email%22)

He's been indicted.

"The indictment in federal court in Alexandria, Va., lists 16 alleged violations with prison terms totaling as much as 235 years. Jefferson is charged with racketeering, soliciting bribes, wire fraud, money laundering, obstruction of justice and conspiracy.

He is the first sitting congressman to face charges under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which prohibits corporate bribery overseas. Jefferson is to be arraigned Friday in U.S. District Court in Alexandria.

Jefferson is accused of soliciting bribes from 11 different companies for himself and his family, and also of bribing a Nigerian official. The scheme was complicated and Jefferson set up a front company to hide the money, prosecutors said."



Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Chicken Little on June 04, 2007, 04:50:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

From Wa Po (//%22http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/04/AR2007060400714.html?referrer=email%22)

He's been indicted.

"The indictment in federal court in Alexandria, Va., lists 16 alleged violations with prison terms totaling as much as 235 years. Jefferson is charged with racketeering, soliciting bribes, wire fraud, money laundering, obstruction of justice and conspiracy.

He is the first sitting congressman to face charges under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which prohibits corporate bribery overseas. Jefferson is to be arraigned Friday in U.S. District Court in Alexandria.

Jefferson is accused of soliciting bribes from 11 different companies for himself and his family, and also of bribing a Nigerian official. The scheme was complicated and Jefferson set up a front company to hide the money, prosecutors said."





Heck ya.  He shouldn't even have run last time. What a turd.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: rwarn17588 on June 04, 2007, 05:01:10 PM
Yes.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: RecycleMichael on June 04, 2007, 05:03:19 PM
He should resign and apologize to the people of his district.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Rico on June 04, 2007, 11:00:15 PM
Does he possibly have info on things higher up the food chain..?

Or was he just gifted in the art of crime?



Oh yes..... I think he should be made to rebuild a levee in LA by himself.... In the summertime.

   [}:)]
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Conan71 on June 05, 2007, 08:59:06 AM
I understand an indictment is just that, formal charges as an accusation of guilt.  Nothing has been proven.

I'm trying to figure out all the hysteria over Mark Foley, who has yet to ever be charged with a crime, yet Democratic leaders have only removed Jefferson from a key post on what, the ways & means committee.  

Foley brought disgrace to the office, did the right thing and stepped down.  Jefferson has also disgraced the office, where's his resignation?
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: cannon_fodder on June 05, 2007, 09:23:26 AM
A grand jury could indict a chicken for being the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll.  

It is pretty rare for a grand jury to NOT return an indictment.  All they have to do is prove that he MIGHT have done something wrong.  A very low threshold.

Now, in all honesty, they rarely seek an indictment unless they have a good case.  And from all appearances, this man is guilty as hell.  Lucky for him, the public can jump to such conclusions but the courts can not.

He is innocent until proven guilty and has the right to retain his post.  He should resign if his constituents call on him to do so or if the ongoing proceedings will prevent him from adequately representing them.  

On a personal note:  if found guilty I hope they really hang this SOB out to dry.  Low corruption is all that separates the US from any third world nation.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: RecycleMichael on June 05, 2007, 10:08:30 AM
They got video of this guy taking bribes and found a stash o' cash next to the popsicles in his house.

They should put in a "resignation express lane" for this guy.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Conan71 on June 05, 2007, 10:14:07 AM
If a person is acting within the law and lives within the law, it's not necessary for a Grand Jury to investigate his actions.

I believe if the HOR and the Senate are really interested in regaining trust with American citizens they should adopt rules calling for the immediate ouster of any member who is charged or indicted with/for a felony.

Yes, I do believe as leaders they need to be held to a higher standard.  Lead by example.

Their ethics rules seem to be pretty fluid
instead of concrete.  

Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Chicken Little on June 05, 2007, 10:28:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

I understand an indictment is just that, formal charges as an accusation of guilt.  Nothing has been proven.

I'm trying to figure out all the hysteria over Mark Foley, who has yet to ever be charged with a crime, yet Democratic leaders have only removed Jefferson from a key post on what, the ways & means committee.  

Foley brought disgrace to the office, did the right thing and stepped down.  Jefferson has also disgraced the office, where's his resignation?

Because it's his choice, until he gets locked up, that is.

He should step down, the libruls on this board has said so, unequivocally.  A better question might be, how come you conservative-types defend guys like Foley, DeLay, Cunningham, Ney, Libby, Abramoff, Scanlon, Volz...?
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: iplaw on June 05, 2007, 11:15:58 AM
I don't know about the others here, but who has defended any of those individuals?
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Conan71 on June 05, 2007, 11:18:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

I understand an indictment is just that, formal charges as an accusation of guilt.  Nothing has been proven.

I'm trying to figure out all the hysteria over Mark Foley, who has yet to ever be charged with a crime, yet Democratic leaders have only removed Jefferson from a key post on what, the ways & means committee.  

Foley brought disgrace to the office, did the right thing and stepped down.  Jefferson has also disgraced the office, where's his resignation?

Because it's his choice, until he gets locked up, that is.

He should step down, the libruls on this board has said so, unequivocally.  A better question might be, how come you conservative-types defend guys like Foley, DeLay, Cunningham, Ney, Libby, Abramoff, Scanlon, Volz...?



I'm more interested in hearing the liberals in Washington saying he should step down.[;)]

I don't think you will find a quote where I ever defended the jobs of any of those guys you mentioned.

The only defense I offered for Mark Foley was he was being called a "pedophile" when by any definition of the word and by law, he was not.  I believe I also stated the relevant timing and reason for the story was election insurance for MT '06 since this was known long before last Sept. by Democrat operatives.

I do believe my words at the time were he violated the trust of office and the page program and did the right thing by stepping down.

The only thing about Libby I ever defended was one of your comments along the lines of "...this proves it, the White House lies".  Libby's conviction just proved that he was convicted of perjury.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: RecycleMichael on June 05, 2007, 11:29:37 AM
Do you think the President should (or will) pardon Scooter Libby?
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Conan71 on June 05, 2007, 11:53:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael

Do you think the President should (or will) pardon Scooter Libby?



I don't think he should pardon him, but I bet he will.  I think it will be a last day pardon.  Should we have a friendly lunch bet over whether or not he waits that long? [;)]

W's legacy already sucks, so what would one little pardon of a convicted liar do to harm it further?

Libby should have just been honest.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: rwarn17588 on June 05, 2007, 12:10:50 PM
If Bush waits until the last day, it's going to be almost pointless, because Libby will have served about 18 months anyway. With good behavior, Libby will serve about 18 months or so.

If Bush respects "the rule of law," then no pardon.

If Libby goes to prison (and the AP wire story suggests he will), I wouldn't be surprised if he suddenly remembers to tell Fitzgerald some other things about Cheney.

Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: cannon_fodder on June 05, 2007, 01:14:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by teddy jack eddy

He should be arrogant and remain in office.  He's got God and God's party on his side to spin the evidence.



You realize he is a democrat, right?

I'll go ahead and assume you do not know a thing about the topic, as is becoming your modus operandi.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Chicken Little on June 05, 2007, 03:35:01 PM
Here's a few:

Cubs (of Foley): "the report says the GOP did not break any rules ..... saying that they left pages "vulnerable" is a pretty lame cop out if you ask me"

Conan71: "The actual damage done by Libby's actions are about as innocuous as what Clinton lied about."

Conan71: "I don't care for the far right CCR faction. IMO, it's made things like the Foley "scandal" much larger than it was. Notice there have never been any charges brought after over seven months of "investigation."?"

Wrinkle:"The facts never seem to have gotten in the way here.  Libby did either lie or mis-remember, but so did a lot of other people. I'm willing to let the jurors speak there (though, the one who spoke, if representative, didn't seem to have a clue of what the trial was really about)."
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: iplaw on June 05, 2007, 04:12:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little

Here's a few:

Cubs (of Foley): "the report says the GOP did not break any rules ..... saying that they left pages "vulnerable" is a pretty lame cop out if you ask me"

Conan71: "The actual damage done by Libby's actions are about as innocuous as what Clinton lied about."

Conan71: "I don't care for the far right CCR faction. IMO, it's made things like the Foley "scandal" much larger than it was. Notice there have never been any charges brought after over seven months of "investigation."?"

Wrinkle:"The facts never seem to have gotten in the way here.  Libby did either lie or mis-remember, but so did a lot of other people. I'm willing to let the jurors speak there (though, the one who spoke, if representative, didn't seem to have a clue of what the trial was really about)."

Was my question that unclear?  I don't see any of those as a defense of what these people did or didn't do.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: cannon_fodder on June 05, 2007, 04:29:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by teddy jack eddy

.



LoL, way to try and hide your ignorance.  There was another group of people that liked to rewrite history, they were called Nazis (/office space reference).  Instead of saying oops you try to hide your mistake, classy.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Chicken Little on June 05, 2007, 04:35:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw

Was my question that unclear?  I don't see any of those as a defense of what these people did or didn't do.

Your question was most certainly unclear.  To defend someone is not the same as to defend someone's innocence...something I never claimed they did and you never explicitly asked.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Conan71 on June 05, 2007, 04:59:04 PM
Nice try CL, what's that brown stuff on your wrist?

Funny part about Libby is he was dumb enough to lie about something which apparently wasn't a crime in the first place.
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Chicken Little on June 05, 2007, 05:07:25 PM
Here's a big whatever for you, too.  I'm not the one defending the guys in the orange suits.[;)][;)][;)][;)][;)]
Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Wrinkle on June 05, 2007, 08:18:28 PM
So, when do we get to try Wilson for all the lies he told, and which caused this entire mess?

Title: Should Jefferson Resign?
Post by: Wrinkle on June 05, 2007, 08:24:30 PM
Jefferson should be skewered live, slow turned over medium-low heat until well done and donated to Purina.