Many citizens of Tulsa have become increasingly concerned about loud motorcycle noise, particularly in and near residential neighborhoods. City Councilor Cason Carter has set a meeting on Wednesday, May 30, 5 p.m. in Rm 201, City Hall to discuss these concerns and to begin working on a cooperative plan of education and enforcement preliminary to the Brookside Rumble & Roar charity event on June 7.
The meeting will be attended by neighborhood leaders and residents, bar and restaurant owners, motor cycle dealers and riders. Representatives from the police, neighborhood inspections and the mayor's office are expected to attend. If you have concerns and want to help design a constructive and fair solution to what many regard as a growing noise pollution and safety problem, please try and attend. Pass this information on to others.
For further information contact me, Greg Bledsoe, bledsoe@aol.com
I can barely hear the motorcycles because of all the weed-eaters, leaf-blowers, and loud car stereos in my neighborhood.
While I'm all for following the law, it seems that many times it's the bikers and bar owners who are getting the short end of it. Didn't the blue rose close down after the bikes were made to leave? Aren't the bikers putting a large chunk of cash INTO brookside?
There are a large contingent of bikers who go by the slogan "loud pipes save lives" and have loud exhaust for the purpose of protection because vehicles regularly make lane changes into motorcyclists and injure/kill them. Now I know there has to be maximum noise limit etc, but I know there are plenty of people in the brookside area who just want the bikes gone and I think that is wrong.
So the City Council needs to pass another freaking resolution directing the TPD to perform some action or another? Good luck! The FOP has not the nads to move on illegal immigration, and we think they will ticket housewives on Harleys? Ha ha!
Now, despite being on FOX23 a few years ago expressing disgruntlement about the noise of the loyyahs in leather, I am not inclined to give the TPD another task they do not want to do. The howling of starving musicians into the wee hours of the morning echoing over Brookside bugs me a lot more, to be honest. But again, asking the TPD to enforce the laws is like pulling teeth, they just do not have the capacity to do it.
And what about weenie whitey wannabes and they thigzzle mizzle? (OH! ICE CUBE (//%22http://music.aol.com/video/why-we-thugs-mtv-version/ice-cube/1652167%22) is in de hoooouse!)
Well, here is hoping, and I am glad someone is taking leadership.
I hate to double post, but for the record I am not one of the people who want bikes gone. I have not heard any neighborhood talk about the noise, and have never heard that it is an issue.
As far as 'noise saves,' so do helmets and the jerks who have the bikes that can be heard two miles away rarely wear helmets. The offenders are a small group of the cycle community who have a serious case of look-at-me syndrome. I truly believe the worst offenders are a few dozen a-holes who have modified their bikes to the nth degree to be obnoxious.
If the biking community cannot nicely pull their bald, goateed pals over and say cool it than the whole biking community is going to bear the blame.
There are a lot fewer bikes on Brookside these days. One supposes they have found other places to cruise.
I'm no fan or rider of motorcycles, but I think this resolution is B.S.
To those whiners in Brookside: HELLLOOOO! You live in a CITY! Traffic noise is part of the equation, whether it's from big rigs, rusty pickups or motorcycles.
I just don't understand people who move to a major metro area and expect it to be like in middle of rural New Mexico at 4 a.m.
And guess what? In the country, it tends to get noisy, too, with roosters, dogs, coyotes, cows, crows, cicadas and about a zillion other critters.
Tim - Sounds like someone on a motorcycle sneered at you when you were young which left a last impression.
Sure, as with every crowd there are people who give everyone else a bad name. The motorcycle community, being what it is, and to some degree misunderstood, is an easy target. However, your point of a few "a holes" which is valid was lost by taking a cheap shot at an easy target.
There are several ways to address loud pipes, which is becoming a popular move across the country, by a particular few, to make life more quiet.
Personally, I think the resources of the few cops we have are better directed at violent crime and hazardous drivers then the volume of ones vehicle in order to protect the poor sound isolation of a few homes.
Even the quick passing rumble of some a$$hole cracking his pipes in order to show off.
jdb
And why did you have to cloud the issue by dragging helmets into your arguement?
The arguement for helmets saving lives is important but only as a last line of defense. Before that comes several efforts to keep one from needing one's helmet.
To boot, there are facts inside the grey area that show helmets have no value, or actually hinder, the rider.
The racer on 169 was not helped by wearing his helmet.
My brother was not killed on his ride from not wearing a helmet. His head was fine, internal injuries did him in.
Not everyone wants to roll around in a cage.
Motorbikes are on the road.
Majority of MC fatalities are not from bikes running over other bikes.
I know loud pipes to have saved me from going over on numerous accounts but I ride quiet through sleepy hoods, unlike the dude in his hopped up '72 Camero.
A$$holes abound, eh?
Sure, racing city streets is wrong as it puts others at a risk they didn't sign up for.
Sure, the rumble of a pipe next to someone at an intersection can interfer with their phone conversation.
Just as rolling out on a stretch of highway with the wind in your face on a nice day gives some people stuck in a crappy car something to ***** about.
which to all of the above there are solutions.
Seat belts in cages are accredited with saving lives. But the focus should be on paying attention so that preventable accidents are avoided. That said, there are cases where NOT wearing a seat belt has saved lives.
Blanket statemnets on either side are not helpful nor is taking shots at some bald, dude on a chopper....what's it you that he's got no hair?
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
I'm no fan or rider of motorcycles, but I think this resolution is B.S.
To those whiners in Brookside: HELLLOOOO! You live in a CITY! Traffic noise is part of the equation, whether it's from big rigs, rusty pickups or motorcycles.
I just don't understand people who move to a major metro area and expect it to be like in middle of rural New Mexico at 4 a.m.
And guess what? In the country, it tends to get noisy, too, with roosters, dogs, coyotes, cows, crows, cicadas and about a zillion other critters.
By your logic the quiet zone downtown is unnecessary. Will you say the same thing when the good folks of red fork come calling for a quiet zone like downtown over there, Mr. Mayor? Will you tell them that's what they get for living by a railroad?
The good folks of Red Fork know what they're getting into and, as a result, don't complain.
Noise from the train, traffic from I-244 and a nearby factory are part of the usual din.
But rwarn, motorcycles are gas sippers - how can you not be a fan?
Trains blasting off their horns are:
A, to piss off sleepy people?
B, to alert bums to wake up and get off the tracks?
C, to harken us back to a time in history when the Train meant: progress, prosperity, and the arrival of person and word from distance places?
That trains have a set route puts them in a different realm of "noise pollution" then that of motorcycles - but show-off's aside - "Loud Horns Saves Lives", no?
Is not what works for the steam engine also good for the puny motorbike?
It's to be seen what Carson is attempting to do here, other then the obvious address and possible appeasal of a few voters, but I am looking forward to seeing some colors come out of those in attendance.
jdb
Trains blasting their horns is mainly to alert people that they're coming and to not go around the crossing gates (which drivers sometimes do).
Railroad folks will tell you that many, many car-train crashes occur when folks go around the crossgates, thinking erroneously that everything's clear or that they're malfunctioning.
And jdb, don't you have someplace else more comfortable to rest your head than on a set of iron rails? [:P]
"Trains blasting their horns is mainly to alert people that they're coming..." - rwarn
Motorbikes are "blasting" pipes for much the same reason: allbeit a selfish pursuit of staying alive.
Comfort is for sissies!
Most motorcycles don't blast the sound levels that rattle my windows, but there are a few that really do.
What is the current law on noise and how difficult is it to identify these bikes?
they don't need to pass any new ordinances. They need to enforce the ones in place. City ordinance prohibits modification to the exhaust system in any way that makes it louder. Officers need to get trained in the ways motorcycle riders fool the cops by removing the baffles and putting in screws to thwart a "stick check".
There are PLENTY of factory shipped exhausts that are loud enough to make drivers aware and not change lanes into them. That is the lamest excuse I have ever heard. The stock exhaust sound on your average HD is plenty loud.
I can't quote you the Tulsa Statues: but here and elsewhere - excluding the infamous Cave Creek Crack-down's occurring aorund the counrty - what's typically metted out is the A%%hole guy cracking his pipes get's a citation while everyone else just attempting to be semi-polite is ignored.
How long was the statue for loud audio enforced?
One day?
"The stock exhaust sound on your average HD is plenty loud." - int.
Spoken like one who knows better, but doesn't.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
they don't need to pass any new ordinances. They need to enforce the ones in place. City ordinance prohibits modification to the exhaust system in any way that makes it louder.
Well said! This has nothing to do with ambient city noise but the deliberate effort to cause extreme pollution by modifying the exhaust system. Having a yuppie on happy rumbling softtail is one thing, but some idiot whose mod stops all conversation as it passes is another. Again, not many offenders, so I do not understand why there would be opposition to enforcing the law.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
they don't need to pass any new ordinances. They need to enforce the ones in place. City ordinance prohibits modification to the exhaust system in any way that makes it louder. Officers need to get trained in the ways motorcycle riders fool the cops by removing the baffles and putting in screws to thwart a "stick check".
There are PLENTY of factory shipped exhausts that are loud enough to make drivers aware and not change lanes into them. That is the lamest excuse I have ever heard. The stock exhaust sound on your average HD is plenty loud.
I agree. In the past several years, a few "bikers" have moved into my neighborhood. When they frequently go past my house, the noise literally rattles the windows and stops any and all conversation in my house, and that is with all windows and doors closed.
I believe trains are required to sound their horns when traveling through urban areas with crossings at grade. They aren't doing it to be obnoxious; it is a federal/state law for them to do so for safety. A train cannot stop in short distances like a motorbike or auto can, so the train horn serves a very valid purpose. On the other hand, motorbikes or cars modified for excessive noise are a nuisance and against the law, and are unnecessary noise pollution in my opinion.
If the motorcycle owner feels they have to illegally modify the exhaust system to be louder, in order to feel safer or just boost their ego, then they should ditch the bike and drive a car or bicycle. And the same goes for loud auto exhaust and audio systems too. They are just as obnoxious.
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
Tim - Sounds like someone on a motorcycle sneered at you when you were young which left a last impression.
Methinks, and I am with the vast majority on this, that playful idiots with 'cracked pipes' have small pee-pee syndrome.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
Tim - Sounds like someone on a motorcycle sneered at you when you were young which left a last impression.
Methinks, and I am with the vast majority on this, that playful idiots with 'cracked pipes' have small pee-pee syndrome.
[}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
City ordinance prohibits modification to the exhaust system in any way that makes it louder.
I imagine it's a bit more specific than that. Otherwise you can fine 1/2 the vehicles on the road. Half the Harleys on the road have new pipes.
If this is such a safety issue why don't the scooter riders have loud pipes? I think this whole "loud pipes saves lives" thing is just a lame excuse to be obnoxious.
Motorbikes, Trains, Copters, Ambulances...maybe the real reason few in here would ever concider living DT.
Complain about nothing to do DT but really their systems are too frail to withstand a loud noise in the night.
Rattling windows are a sign of loose fitted casings and/ or the sash needs re-glazing.
So while one can narrowly focus on pipe mod's disturbing their chitter chatter for a few passing seconds, their omitting a multiple of other mod's that go hand in hand like rotors, intake, oil pumps, light kits, etc. which are designed to make the bike more responsive, increase visiable, increase stopping power (which they sorely lack), performance, mileage...some are decrotive some are safety.
Which all but a few options are legal, even in Cali.
"Dumps" are what the rumblephobes(c) are so offended by but those are few on the road and even so have passed the Cave Creek sound ord's.
jdb
So Tim, you take comfort in belonging to the vast majority of an issue, swell.
But that doesn't quaily you as informed.
But that's alright, you are cut some slack as it's obvious from your "small wee wee transference" that you wet yourself in the back seat of your parents car when you were sneered at by that big bad biker.
Bet you got a spanking for it too![:D]
Yes cities have lots of noise. I live right by a highway, chose to do so and do not complain about the noise from it.
However if there were a way limit the noise pollution in my home or neighborhood I would work to do so. From doing things to my home like getting windows that are more sound proof and installing an extra layer of sheetrock to the walls and ceilings. Sound barrier walls along the highway can help if the wall reaches at least 8 feet above your ear level. Not something that will work in my case since I am on a slope an my home is above the wall. I would also champion sound reducing roadways and additives like rice husks to the roadway material which can reduce the sound of the vehicles. Every bit to help improve the living conditions for myself and others.
Just because you live in the city doesn't mean you shouldn't work to make it a better, quieter, place. Its not going to be the country. (heck sometimes the birds outside my window can be annoying lol) But noise pollution affects health and well being and any way to reduce it for everyone should be worked towards whenever possible. A lot of people and the city, have put a lot of work and effort into making the city a better, quieter place to live. When someone goes out of their way to make it louder...
Some considerations can be structural, like sound wall barriers along highways, automatic railroad crossings so that trains don't have to sound their horns, special road surfaces. Other considerations seem to be a case of manners, turning down your sterio as you pass through a neighborhood, areas like Brookside, and at stop lights. Not playing your home sterio or sound system super loud all the time, whether you live in an apartment or home. And yes, not making your motorcycle run loud.
I don't buy the "We need loud motorcycles so that people will know we are there and not run into us." reason.
People pull out in front of my car. I know I have to watch out for them. I also know that the smaller the vehicle I am driving means that others are going to be less likely to see me and that I should drive accordingly.
How many loud vespas have you seen? Perhaps noisy mufflers on bicycles? Perhaps I should make my car super loud so that semi's wont run into me? Or I can take appropriate precautions and pay extra attention to larger vehicles that may not see me. Being responsible by paying appropriate attention seems better than trying to shunt that responsibility by being loud.
Because your driving a small vehicle you have to be aware that other people are less likely to see you. Its just the way it is.
Being noisy and annoying lots of people, because you don't want to be more aware of the few large vehicles that may not see you, just doesn't sound like the best solution for everyone to take.
Most motorcyclists, bicyclists, vespas, etc. don't make themselves super loud. When I am riding my bike I know I cant just lollygag down the road like a car. I have to keep my eye out.
Shunting that responsibility by being loud, all the while annoying others, so that I can drive just like I would in a car, doesn't seem like the best answer.
Being noisy is the lazy mans way out.
Your in a small vehicle. You know that people are not as likely to see you. Be on the lookout for them. They are in a big car or truck surely you can see them. Being loud and hoping they hear you so that you dont have to look out for them seems absurd.
We should all try to look out for motorcycles and smaller vehicles. And we should all try to be as considerate as possible to others "noise wise". Just because we live in the city doesn't mean we should completely give up on trying to make it a little more pleasant and yes, quieter place.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Yes cities have lots of noise. I live right by a highway, chose to do so and do not complain about the noise from it.
However if there were a way limit the noise pollution in my home or neighborhood I would work to do so. From doing things to my home like getting windows that are more sound proof and installing an extra layer of sheetrock to the walls and ceilings. Sound barrier walls along the highway can help if the wall reaches at least 8 feet above your ear level. Not something that will work in my case since I am on a slope an my home is above the wall. I would also champion sound reducing roadways and additives like rice husks to the roadway material which can reduce the sound of the vehicles. Every bit to help improve the living conditions for myself and others.
Just because you live in the city doesn't mean you shouldn't work to make it a better, quieter, place. Its not going to be the country. (heck sometimes the birds outside my window can be annoying lol) But noise pollution affects health and well being and any way to reduce it for everyone should be worked towards whenever possible. A lot of people and the city, have put a lot of work and effort into making the city a better, quieter place to live. When someone goes out of their way to make it louder...
Some considerations can be structural, like sound wall barriers along highways, automatic railroad crossings so that trains don't have to sound their horns, special road surfaces. Other considerations seem to be a case of manners, turning down your sterio as you pass through a neighborhood, areas like Brookside, and at stop lights. Not playing your home sterio or sound system super loud all the time, whether you live in an apartment or home. And yes, not making your motorcycle run loud.
I don't buy the "We need loud motorcycles so that people will know we are there and not run into us." reason.
People pull out in front of my car. I know I have to watch out for them. I also know that the smaller the vehicle I am driving means that others are going to be less likely to see me and that I should drive accordingly.
How many loud vespas have you seen? Perhaps noisy mufflers on bicycles? Perhaps I should make my car super loud so that semi's wont run into me? Or I can take appropriate precautions and pay extra attention to larger vehicles that may not see me. Being responsible by paying appropriate attention seems better than trying to shunt that responsibility by being loud.
Because your driving a small vehicle you have to be aware that other people are less likely to see you. Its just the way it is.
Being noisy and annoying lots of people, because you don't want to be more aware of the few large vehicles that may not see you, just doesn't sound like the best solution for everyone to take.
Most motorcyclists, bicyclists, vespas, etc. don't make themselves super loud. When I am riding my bike I know I cant just lollygag down the road like a car. I have to keep my eye out.
Shunting that responsibility by being loud, all the while annoying others, so that I can drive just like I would in a car, doesn't seem like the best answer.
Being noisy is the lazy mans way out.
Your in a small vehicle. You know that people are not as likely to see you. Be on the lookout for them. They are in a big car or truck surely you can see them. Being loud and hoping they hear you so that you dont have to look out for them seems absurd.
We should all try to look out for motorcycles and smaller vehicles. And we should all try to be as considerate as possible to others "noise wise". Just because we live in the city doesn't mean we should completely give up on trying to make it a little more pleasant and yes, quieter place.
Say Man... If you want to put GlassPax (sp?) mufflers on your car go ahead... Long as no laws are broken..
Freedom to express oneself is what this issue is about... If it gets my blood pumping listening to Rock and Roll
LOUD... That's my right... if I am not breaking any Law...
If I want a bike that has a roar to it... That's my right...
The same people that want Cason to cure there ills are going to know someone that goes to see Nugent when he is here....
During his "World War Three Tour" he stacked Fender Twin Reverb amps to the sky....
When asked how loud he wanted it to be...? he said, "I want the first six rows to go deaf"...
That is extreme... That, if mounted on a vehicle ,would have me calling the Cops...
maybe..?But you know what.. He was not cited at the afore mentioned concert because it broke no law...
You want Laws on how loud a Motorcycle can be... Whats next..
You and anyone that has their own idea as to what is
Paradise don't have a lock and key on it...
Cason gets it past the City Council and Mayor..
The test case will be very well reresented on the side of the Cyclist from a Law Firm out of Oakland.
p.s. This is a very large piece of what's wrong with Tulsa........
Everyone thinks someone else can kiss it and make it better..
Ya know what "Kiss It your own Damn Self"
aRT -
I clicked un-ignore to see your post here.
I will most likely click it again but that's based on your reply to this.
Originally posted by TheArtist
Yes cities have lots of noise. I live right by a highway, chose to do so and do not complain about the noise from it.
Good, getting used to one environs, with or without sound masking, is a sign of flexibility, adaption, let live.
However if there were a way limit the noise pollution in my home or neighborhood I would work to do so. From doing things to my home like getting windows that are more sound proof and installing an extra layer of sheetrock to the walls and ceilings. Sound barrier walls along the highway can help if the wall reaches at least 8 feet above your ear level. Not something that will work in my case since I am on a slope an my home is above the wall. I would also champion sound reducing roadways and additives like rice husks to the roadway material which can reduce the sound of the vehicles. Every bit to help improve the living conditions for myself and others.
I am sure you meant "looking into a host of alternative concepts, which includes the address of sound isolation, not "proof" as the co-efficients are too expensive for all but a few people, issues in our homes, to quiet the busting Fast Lane of other peoples lives".
Freeway Sound Walls helped one issue but created another that may be worse.
I support the pursue of shredding tires to be used as a road bed top-cover, if the costs of the solutions are not passed off in Toto to the consumer - but that's David vs. Big Daddy Golia!
Sorry gotta chop this next part up due to too many issues all lumped into the same paragraph.
Just because you live in the city doesn't mean you shouldn't work to make it a better, quieter, place.
In your opinion quieter is better.
So a dense, urban, hot-spot will have the hum of a college Library?
Will the victory screams of Soc cor fans leaving the field arena, emblazoned by their teams winning performance, be monitored by beat-cops with a DBL meter?
How quiet is quiet?
Who determines the level and at what cost to the reason things are loud to begin with? Like ambul. trains, planes, sirens, alarms, fireworks, shot guns, bull-horned titty-contest's in the Furr Shop's parking lot at midnight?
How boringly, un-uptopic for type "A's".
Its not going to be the country. (heck sometimes the birds outside my window can be annoying lol)
Were not covering the sound traits of rural living in here, are we?
Different animal, maybe next edition
But noise pollution affects health and well being and any way to reduce it for everyone should be worked towards whenever possible.
A sustained level of sound, even a minor one on a scale of 1 - 10, has been known to affect people adversely. Key word Sustained.
A passing motorbike is measure in seconds.
At worst the roar of a bike is but one part of the din which should not be stomped on without consideration to it's merits before hand.
A lot of people and the city, have put a lot of work and effort into making the city a better, quieter place to live. When someone goes out of their way to make it louder...
That again is the argument of better means quiet. But, it's the sound of people living in the same place. Compromise means everyone is taken into account. Here, we are concerned with the merits of loud pipes vs. the fuzzy warmth of peace and quiet, no?
or
When someone goes out of their way to make themselves known to other people that can kill them dead in seconds flat by doing one mindless thing, they better have a good reason?
Well, what might that reason be?
And is there only one?
How completely un-imaginative.
Some considerations can be structural, like sound wall barriers along highways, automatic railroad crossings so that trains don't have to sound their horns, special road surfaces. Other considerations seem to be a case of manners, turning down your sterio as you pass through a neighborhood, areas like Brookside, and at stop lights. Not playing your home sterio or sound system super loud all the time, whether you live in an apartment or home. And yes, not making your motorcycle run loud.
Loud Pipes in the hood! Get your Gun!
I ride quiet through hoods day or night.
Couple of kids on the corner egg me on to "Crack 'Em" when they see me, sometimes I do, they cheer, I grin and ride on.
Bet most people that pull up in cages are now feared as kidnappers by those children but that's an aside of my own.
On the hiway we throttle up and then down to pass cages, sometimes.
Matter of mutual respect on the road.
I don't buy the "We need loud motorcycles so that people will know we are there and not run into us." reason.
What do you know about it? How do you come to this conclusion? How many miles you logged this year? I've been riding 4 decades. Hanging out with the likes and working with clubs to keep from being legislated into a box with straps and balloons and no possible contact with the outside world we're traveling through. Yeah, maybe watching TV on the visor, folding the whirled, chatting on the phone, fighting with a loved one, reaching for a gun under the seat? Maybe dialing Delmo on the radio?
Screw that!
People pull out in front of my car. I know I have to watch out for them. I also know that the smaller the vehicle I am driving means that others are going to be less likely to see me and that I should drive accordingly.
How many loud vespas have you seen? Perhaps noisy mufflers on bicycles? Perhaps I should make my car super loud so that semi's wont run into me? Or I can take appropriate precautions and pay extra attention to larger vehicles that may not see me. Being responsible by paying appropriate attention seems better than trying to shunt that responsibility by being loud.
Who says anyone one a MC doesn't take into account their size and the results of what might happen any second if the car up ahead does something unexpected?
That's an erroneous presumption.
I have never heard anyone claim a quiet pipe helped keep them from being run over but I have heard and said the opposite untold times. Just because you don't know first hand doesn't mean you cant learn from a direct source. And it doesn't need your belief to exist.
I am NOT the direct source of which I spoke about in the above sentence.
Because your driving a small vehicle you have to be aware that other people are less likely to see you. Its just the way it is.
Being noisy and annoying lots of people, because you don't want to be more aware of the few large vehicles that may not see you, just doesn't sound like the best solution for everyone to take.
Most motorcyclists, bicyclists, vespas, etc. don't make themselves super loud. When I am riding my bike I know I cant just lollygag down the road like a car. I have to keep my eye out.
Shunting that responsibility by being loud, all the while annoying others, so that I can drive just like I would in a car, doesn't seem like the best answer.
Repeat of assumptions and logic built on a faulty premise.
Being noisy is the lazy mans way out.
I am sure you mean to say , "If all one does is open his pipes he may still have left-turners cutting him off.", right? Lazy, implies one doesn't apply himself to the problem and instead might say something like "I just don't buy it", no?
Your in a small vehicle. You know that people are not as likely to see you. Be on the lookout for them. They are in a big car or truck surely you can see them. Being loud and hoping they hear you so that you dont have to look out for them seems absurd.
We should all try to look out for motorcycles and smaller vehicles. And we should all try to be as considerate as possible to others "noise wise". Just because we live in the city doesn't mean we should completely give up on trying to make it a little more pleasant and yes, quieter place.
Repeat of assumptions.
But it's not a "in a small vehicle" it's on a small vehicle. Being "On" a bike is in nothing but the hands of himself and those around him.
"...so you don't have to look..."? I know no one who has ever even thought this, let alone utter such a curse upon ones self.
Personal deal.
Your, "why cant we all get along, as long as it's by my idea of what constitutes a quality life, whinny tone, sprinkled with "lol's" ,how cute, is too much for me to take in searching your post's for kernels of something new, an insight, an 180* spin on a issue.
I am not flaming you here, just flatly stating why I don't read you.
On occasion I found an interesting point in your post's but I have like minded people to kick the thought around with.
That said, the posts I make are largely BS, time killing poor attempts at humor, and half-baked stupidity. That I am not drunk only makes my posts all the worse.
I typically expect one friend here to taunt me after hours about my remarks (which just happened), but that's about as much care as I can muster anymore.
Additionally, I encourage people to ignore me.
The question here is are loud pipes live saving add-ons, maybe like that of seat belt's but much less confining?
If the study, which made a sleepy cameo appearance in the whirled today, is ever funded some interesting things will come to light that the "vast majority of people" do not know now.
The fall out of the question is some of us have known for a long time and learned the hard way that indeed the pipes help make people a bit more alert. Which is saying almost nothing.
But it's an edge I take, my neighbors don't mind a bit, and my parents instantly warmed to. jdb
lotta ground, little screen: some editing my occur.
SECTION 721. MUFFLERS, PREVENTION OF NOISE
Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with a muffler in good working
order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and annoying
smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, by-pass or similar device upon a motor
vehicle on any street or highway. No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor
vehicle in any manner which will amplify or increase the noise or sound emitted louder
than that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle.
Ord. No. 13642
maybe if they would enforce that there wouldn't be a need to have a bunch of meetings
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
SECTION 721. MUFFLERS, PREVENTION OF NOISE
Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with a muffler in good working
order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and annoying
smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, by-pass or similar device upon a motor
vehicle on any street or highway. No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor
vehicle in any manner which will amplify or increase the noise or sound emitted louder
than that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle.
Ord. No. 13642
maybe if they would enforce that there wouldn't be a need to have a bunch of meetings
I'm impressed to see it written that way, especially as seeing a high percentage of Tulsa, and even this forum, would have to be ticketed.
The difference between putting cutouts and putting flowmasters on a camaro is a big one. I've seen a camaro with flowmasters and tpd plates before. Plus, stock exhaust on my 2003 is louder than the same vehicle in 2005. So if someone modified a 2005 to sound like a 2003, is that okay?
Most all those $hit box Harley's sound the same....You heard one you have heard them all.....Now There are some V-Twin and V-Four bikes that do sound good.....
Below are some of the city ordinances that relate to this issue. The real problem was the elimination of vehicle inspections which required cycles to be legal with respect to mufflers. Without inspections, many if not most larger cycles now have modified mufflers. I have been advised that the police estimate 90% of cycles are not legal.
There has also not been any priority of enforcement in residential areas. The problem grows and grows--especially between the cycle venues from 46th to 15th along South Peoria. This is almost totally residential between 32nd and 16th Streets.
There may be other areas of the city that are problems, but this appears to be the perfect storm area--where I live.
Between 4 pm on Fridays to Sunday evening--it is not a happy time between April and November to be outside and near South Peoria. The cycle noise far exceeds the normal traffic noise.
__________________________
Some Tulsa City Ordinances Relating to Noise and Motorcycles
Title 24
NUISANCES
1. CHAPTER 1. NUISANCES CLASSIFIED
...
SECTION 100. NUISANCES DEFINED
A public nuisance consists of unlawfully doing an act or omitting to perform a duty, which act or omission:
A. Annoys, injures or endangers the safety, health, comfort or repose of others;
...
SECTION 103. NUISANCES AFFECTING PEACE AND SAFETY
The following are hereby declared to be public nuisances affecting public peace and safety:
...
F. All loud or unusual noises and annoying vibrations which offend the peace and quiet of persons of ordinary sensibilities;
SECTION 106. PENALTY
Any person, firm or corporation, partnership or other legal entity who anywhere
within the City of Tulsa commits any nuisance, either as principal or accessory, or who knowingly permits the creation or continuation of any nuisance on any property owned or occupied by himself as the same has been defined in this chapter shall be guilty of an offense and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of not more than FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500.00), excluding costs, and/or imprisonment in the City Jail for not more than ninety (90) days. Each day of such violation shall constitute a separate offense.
Title 27
PENAL CODE
SECTION 1400. NOISES
It shall be an offense for any person at any time to willfully or maliciously disturb the public peace or quietude or the life, health, or safety of any individual in any manner, by creating any noise of such character or duration so as to be loud, disturbing, or unnecessary, including but not limited to the following:
...
E. The discharge of the exhaust of any internal combustion or motor vehicle, except through a muffler or other device which will effectively prevent loud or explosive noises therefrom;
...
SECTION 1408. PENALTY
Unless otherwise provided for in this chapter, any person convicted of violating any of the provisions of this chapter shall be punished by a fine of not more than TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS ($200.00), excluding costs, fees and assessments. Each day such violation is committed or permitted to continue shall constitute a separate offense.
Title 37
TULSA REVISED TRAFFIC CODE
...
SECTION 721. MUFFLERS, PREVENTION OF NOISE
Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and annoying smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, by-pass or similar device upon a motor vehicle on any street or highway. No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in any manner which will amplify or increase the noise or sound emitted louder than that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle.
...
SECTION 739. PENALTY
A. Unless otherwise provided for in this chapter, every person violating any provision of this chapter shall be guilty of an offense and upon conviction shall be punished by a fine of not more than TEN DOLLARS ($10.00), excluding costs, fees, and assessments.
Here are some state laws on this subject:
Title 47. Motor Vehicles
Chapter 12
Highway Safety Code
Article Article 4
Section 12-402 - Mufflers, Prevention Of Noise.
A. Every vehicle shall be equipped, maintained, and operated so as to prevent excessive or unusual noise. Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with a muffler or other effective noise-suppressing system in good working order and in constant operation, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, bypass or similar device. No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in any manner which will amplify or increase the noise or sound emitted louder than that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle.
B. The engine and power mechanism of every motor vehicle shall be so equipped and adjusted as to prevent the escape of excessive fumes or smoke, or both.
...
Section 12-609 - Required Equipment
A. In addition to other requirements prescribed by this chapter, by federal law or by local ordinance, all motorcycles, except when operated on actual trail rides conducted outside of public roads and highways, shall be equipped with:
...
6. A muffler or other effective noise-suppressing system which shall comply with the requirements of Section 12-402 of this title.
Section 12-415 - Penalties
Any person violating any of the provisions of Section 12-413 of this title shall, upon conviction thereof, be punished as provided in Section 17-101 of this title.
Section 17-101 - Misdemeanors
A. It is a misdemeanor for any person to violate any of the provisions of this title unless such violation is by this title or other law of this state declared to be a felony.
B. 1. Every person convicted of a misdemeanor for a violation of any of the provisions of Sections 10-101 through 14-121 or Sections 16-101 through 16-114 of this title for which another penalty is not provided shall upon conviction thereof be punished by a fine of not less than Five Dollars ($5.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00) or by imprisonment for not more than ten (10) days; for a second such conviction within one (1) year after the first conviction by imprisonment for not more than twenty (20) days; upon a third or subsequent conviction within one (1) year after the first conviction by imprisonment for not more than six (6) months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
2. Any person violating the provisions of Sections 10-101 through 14-121 or Sections 16-101 through 16-114 of this title, where a jail sentence is not mandatory may, in the discretion of the district attorney wherein the offense occurred, be permitted to enter a plea of guilty by written statement by the person charged to be presented to the court wherein the case is filed. A remittance covering the fine and costs may be considered and received with the same force and effect as a written plea of guilty.
C. Unless another penalty is in this title or by the laws of this state provided, every person convicted of a misdemeanor for the violation of any other provision of this title shall be punished by a fine of not less than Five Dollars ($5.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or by imprisonment for not more than six (6) months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
D. Provided, however, notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, any offense, including traffic offenses, in violation of any of the provisions of this title which is not otherwise punishable by a term of imprisonment or confinement shall be punishable by a term of imprisonment not to exceed one day in the discretion of the court, in addition to any fine prescribed by law.
E. The conviction of any person, as prescribed in this section, when the offense occurred during a period when the driving privileges of the person were under suspension, revocation, cancellation, denial, or disqualification or the person had not been granted driving privileges by Oklahoma or any other state, shall result in the doubling of the appropriate fine, as provided for in subsections B and C of this section, and the doubling of all court costs and all fees collected by the court on behalf of any other entity.
F. One-half (1/2) of any fine collected pursuant to the provisions of subsection E of this section, shall be deposited to the Trauma Care Assistance Revolving Fund created in Section 1-2522 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes.
Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Chapter 55
Section 1362 - Disturbance by Loud or Unusual Noise or Abusive, Violent, Obscene, Profane or Threatening Language
If any person shall willfully or maliciously disturb, either by day or night, the peace and quiet of any city of the first class, town, village, neighborhood, family or person by loud or unusual noise, or by abusive, violent, obscene or profane language, whether addressed to the party so disturbed or some other person, or by threatening to kill, do bodily harm or injury, destroy property, fight, or by quarreling or challenging to fight, or fighting, or shooting off any firearms, or brandishing the same, or by running any horse at unusual speed along any street, alley, highway or public road, he shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and, on conviction thereof, shall be fined in any sum not to exceed One Hundred Dollars ($100.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed thirty (30) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment, at the discretion of the court or jury trying the same.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
SECTION 721. MUFFLERS, PREVENTION OF NOISE
Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with a muffler in good working
order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and annoying
smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, by-pass or similar device upon a motor
vehicle on any street or highway. No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor
vehicle in any manner which will amplify or increase the noise or sound emitted louder
than that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle.
Ord. No. 13642
maybe if they would enforce that there wouldn't be a need to have a bunch of meetings
I'm impressed to see it written that way, especially as seeing a high percentage of Tulsa, and even this forum, would have to be ticketed.
The difference between putting cutouts and putting flowmasters on a camaro is a big one. I've seen a camaro with flowmasters and tpd plates before. Plus, stock exhaust on my 2003 is louder than the same vehicle in 2005. So if someone modified a 2005 to sound like a 2003, is that okay?
no that would not be ok. If you want it to sound louder, sell the stock 2005 and buy a stock 2003. They can do nothing about a truely stock vehicle, but modifying it to make it louder gets you in trouble.
i doubt it would get most of Tulsans in trouble. it would get all the a**hole civic drivers in trouble that have those stupid buzz cans on the back. I think once you break the bank of all those fast and furious wannabes plus the baffle buster harley riders, you will have cleaned up a good portion of noise pollution in the city.
The acticle(s) do not speak to DBL limits; how loud is loud?, nor is there anything in the articles about coustom cars and one-off motorbikes that come "originally" equipped with less then quiet pipes.
Besides, people are probably more bothered by the pressure not the volume. It's the wrong fight, and borders on discrimination.
As written, the article(s) are worthless if contested.
Some easy reading on the subject:
http://www.cyclerides.com/WeeklyUpdate12_20_06.htm
"...to what many regard as a growing noise pollution and safety problem...."
Am looking forward to seeing how many Rumblephobes it takes to fire up a City Coucilor
and just excatly who's personal safety is at risk here?
jdb
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
. . . borders on discrimination.
Heh heh, heh heh . . .
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
The acticle(s) do not speak to DBL limits; how loud is loud?, nor is there anything in the articles about coustom cars and one-off motorbikes that come "originally" equipped with less then quiet pipes.
Besides, people are probably more bothered by the pressure not the volume. It's the wrong fight, and borders on discrimination.
As written, the article(s) are worthless if contested.
Some easy reading on the subject:
http://www.cyclerides.com/WeeklyUpdate12_20_06.htm
"...to what many regard as a growing noise pollution and safety problem...."
Am looking forward to seeing how many Rumblephobes it takes to fire up a City Coucilor
and just excatly who's personal safety is at risk here?
jdb
well custom bikes are made by a properly licensed outfit. However if that outfit is deemed to be making excessively loud or polluting bikes, their license could be revoked and the offending bikes might have to be recalled. state or federal law would take care of that.
the city's ordinance is making the assumption that the motor vehicle already meets state and federal guidelines.
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
The acticle(s) do not speak to DBL limits; how loud is loud?, nor is there anything in the articles about coustom cars and one-off motorbikes that come "originally" equipped with less then quiet pipes.
Besides, people are probably more bothered by the pressure not the volume. It's the wrong fight, and borders on discrimination.
As written, the article(s) are worthless if contested.
Some easy reading on the subject:
http://www.cyclerides.com/WeeklyUpdate12_20_06.htm
"...to what many regard as a growing noise pollution and safety problem...."
Am looking forward to seeing how many Rumblephobes it takes to fire up a City Coucilor
and just excatly who's personal safety is at risk here?
jdb
jdb, do you live in the Phoenix area?
"the city's ordinance is making the assumption that the motor vehicle already meets state and federal guidelines." - inteller
Well, there you go.
Looks like what we got here is assumptions and officiers discretion which is clear as mud in a court of law.
Go figure.
"jdb, do you live in the Phoenix area?"
Part time, I run South for the winter - much like a SnOwBird, but having roots, brothers, and obligations in Arizona it's slightly different.
I prefer my open space in the high desert below Jerome but often find myself rolling down to Tucson for adult activities for weeks on end.
I was in on some of the deal when the testing was performed. There are gobs of cities around the country dealing with this issue.
We should be taking notes from their efforts - successfull and otherwise.
Why you ask?
The city prohibits "jake braking" of trucks within city limits, and many of these motorcycles are louder than that IMHO. I used to live about a block in from Peoria along that magic strip between Brookside and Cherry Street, and let me tell you, nowhere else in Tulsa are people subjected to that kind of irritation. I can only imagine what people that live right ON Peoria have to deal with. REgular traffic noise is what these people expected and signed up for, but these occassional bursts of explosive exhaust note are above and beyond regular. Cities are indeed noisy places but what's the limit going to be? Why is it OK to ticket a teenager for loud music but not a R.U.B. for his loud exhaust?
"Why is it OK to ticket a teenager for loud music but not a R.U.B. for his loud exhaust?"
I assume you mean, "Why are not all vehicles emitting DB's above some determined level, be it audio or mechanical, given a citation!", no?
Some motorbikes have audio systems that can box your ears and some cages have loud pipes that rival small jet engines.
Might have to define small jet engine, though.
But with your verbage an elderly person could blast out an aria in D minor at 107dbs at the light of 51st and Memorial and not be breaking the law. I get your point though.
To think riders don't call other riders out for creating problems is wrong. To think all confrontations end in bloodshed is only partly wrong. To think that everyone on a bike is a RUB is completely wrong.
Among the "laws on the subject":
"...or by running any horse at unusual speed along any street...".
It's selective as nowhere are mules, camels, or large rodents named. And should the horse emit a loud fart while running at unusal speed's... does that make the rider a felon?
Flippant to stress my point: who detremines the DB threshold? What is it sound or pressure? Who is certified to measure and enforce a violation?...and where's my bag of pop corn?
Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Chapter 55
Section 1362 - Disturbance by Loud or Unusual Noise or Abusive, Violent, Obscene, Profane or Threatening Language
If any person shall willfully or maliciously disturb, either by day or night, the peace and quiet of any city of the first class, town, village, neighborhood, family or person by loud or unusual noise, or by abusive, violent, obscene or profane language, whether addressed to the party so disturbed or some other person, or by threatening to kill, do bodily harm or injury, destroy property, fight, or by quarreling or challenging to fight, or fighting, or shooting off any firearms, or brandishing the same, or by running any horse at unusual speed along any street, alley, highway or public road, he shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and, on conviction thereof, shall be fined in any sum not to exceed One Hundred Dollars ($100.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed thirty (30) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment, at the discretion of the court or jury trying the same.
Last night when I got into my pool...the water was so cold I howled like a screaming monkey. I am glad my neighbors don't know about this ordinance.
Noise pollution is the only kind of pollution that you can forced to regulate by a governing body that is not even willing to measure it.
"...by a governing body..." - sgrizzle
Which is typically prodded on by one individual with an axe to grind who builds a band wagon in which to parade his supports around in.
Odd, there's no mention of leaf blowers.
Oooo, could this be a backdoor ruse to introduce language, at the last second, to include leaf blowers, which could be wielded by illegal's, and thus our local boys in blue could legally ask for Green cards on sleepy, Sunday mornings?
Isn't that the way of politic's?
Deport the Howling Monkeys!
jdb
I am glad to see Jb checked in with some logic. It is in fact only the Db levels that can be used to decide what is acceptable noise. No one wants to subject all noises in the city to measurement and enforcement of nuisance laws.
If we did, then so long to the media helicopters, the beer trucks and WWII flyovers. All are in excess of pleasant DB levels.
Consider this. I once measured noise along the River with a Radio Shack Db meter (it was so cool someone stole it). Subjects: Beer truck going over 11th street bridge, cicadas in towering Sycamores, city trucks heading across 21st bridge, motorcyclists along Riverside, rowing crew boats with megaphones. Guess what? They were all at one point in "the red zone". Admittedly, the helicopters and glorycycles were the loudest but all were over 80db up to 105db. One could not have had a conversation under the noise of the late summer cicadas.
Shall we cut down the Sycamores?
JDB in response to your response lol. Didnt want to take up that much space so didnt quote it.
First, I will say I feel like giving up trying to argue the case about "loud pipes saving lives". I think it would be too hard to argue something like that on here post after post, you always lose something or forget something in the writing of it. Honestly I never really notice that noise when I am in my car. I have either hardly ever passed someone in my car who had loud pipes or cant hear it when I am in my car anyway so can't offer a genuine opinion on whether it would make me more aware of someone on a bike or not. But, I personally wouldn't
make my bike loud even if it could possibly save my life because I wouldn't want to be that loud and annoying to others. I wouldn't ride if I felt that was the only choice. I remember living in Paris for a while and working in working London for a bit, I saw lots of motorcycles and vespas but never once heard any of those loud bikes. I guarantee you the traffic in both of those places is far worse than here, perhaps they just didn't know about the life saving qualities of being super loud? Or, by chance simply didn't hear any. I honestly can't even imagine something that loud going down the streets of Paris and getting away with it.
I am going to start over and get to the gist of why I don't like those loud pipes.
When I and some friends are sitting outdoors eating, say along Brookside, and those loud bikes go by, it can be so loud that the conversation has to stop. We are all suddenly forced to sit there, shut up, and listen to that noise. I just think thats rude and annoying.
I was at Blue Dome and some bikers came by and parked in the parking lot behind me and some had really loud bikes. I think one of the people who had a booth had a bike as well and they were his friends. Now that area was loud to begin with but those bikes were even louder and they certainly wouldn't qualify as "ambient noise" lol. (I know you don't like my lol's but I do laugh a lot lol) I swear it seemed as though half the time I got on the phone they or he, started up and I couldn't hear a thing. ( You weren't there waiting and watching for me to try and talk on my phone were ya? [:P]) But anyway, I found that annoying.
Fortunately I no longer live along brookside and there is nobody who goes down my street on one of those loud bikes. If they did, that would be another example. Mowers don't bother me for I have never heard one that is as loud as those bikes.
We can argue round and round about cicadas, leaf blowers, loud music, kids loving it when you rev it up, and all of that. But ya have to admit those super loud bikes are annoying when they go by. Even if they aren't to you, I bet if we were to take a vote a good majority of people would.
The very fact that there are laws against certain types of loud noises means I can't be too alone and crazy in my opinion that those loud bikes are annoying.
I really think its sad that there has to be a law or ordinance against things like loud music in your car or in the neighboring apartment or about loud bikes. I often like listening to loud music but I try to be aware of when it may be annoying to others, like at a stop light or along Brookside, and turn it down. I just think thats being considerate.
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
"the city's ordinance is making the assumption that the motor vehicle already meets state and federal guidelines." - inteller
Well, there you go.
Looks like what we got here is assumptions and officiers discretion which is clear as mud in a court of law.
Go figure.
"jdb, do you live in the Phoenix area?"
Part time, I run South for the winter - much like a SnOwBird, but having roots, brothers, and obligations in Arizona it's slightly different.
I prefer my open space in the high desert below Jerome but often find myself rolling down to Tucson for adult activities for weeks on end.
I was in on some of the deal when the testing was performed. There are gobs of cities around the country dealing with this issue.
We should be taking notes from their efforts - successfull and otherwise.
Why you ask?
I was curious as to wether or not you have been to the Cave Creek Carefree area, and by your response and being involved in some of the testing there qualifies you to talk about it. I live just west of Cave Creek Road in norht Phoenix it is the main route other than Scottsdale Road and Pima Road to that area, and it is the one that is most traveled by the riders to go north, espescially with Buddy Stubbs HD and the other motor cycle shops between Cactus and Bell Road on Cave Creek. The biggest theing to me is that if you have one to three bikes together it's not too bad. But if you have travelled that route on the weekends it is not uncommon for there to be 10 to 30 riding in a group going up there on the weekends. For me while it can be irratating, I can't blame the riders because it is such a nice ride up that road to Cave Creek and Carefree, The Road House in Carefree, Bartlett Lake and Seven Springs area.
If I road it would be hard to keep me at home during the weekends.
I understand what Carefree was trying to do, because if you are trying to have a quiet dinner at some of the resteraunts up there it can be difficult with 10 open pipe HD's going by.
I also understand the riders perspective, I had a brother that was a member of ABATE, and his motto was "Live to ride, and ride to live" he never got married, his women were his Moto Guzzi's, and I got to know alot of his friends while residing in Tulsa.
Well I think I will sit this one out jdb........
I was already to mention a chainsaw until the part about the dude with the booth and parking behind the Blue Dome....
[}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
We can argue round and round about cicadas, leaf blowers, loud music, kids loving it when you rev it up, and all of that. But ya have to admit those super loud bikes are annoying when they go by. Even if they aren't to you, I bet if we were to take a vote a good majority of people would.
The very fact that there are laws against certain types of loud noises means I can't be too alone and crazy in my opinion that those loud bikes are annoying.
I really think its sad that there has to be a law or ordinance against things like loud music in your car or in the neighboring apartment or about loud bikes. I often like listening to loud music but I try to be aware of when it may be annoying to others, like at a stop light or along Brookside, and turn it down. I just think thats being considerate.
Of course the cicadas aren't the problem. I thought you might see the absurdity of trying to quiet down a city when even the country is loud. But temporarily so.
I also detest the straight pipe cycles. Last Friday nite two of them startled me in traffic in the middle of Brookside. But it was a temporary noise and self limiting. By that I mean the drivers are terminally stupid. It is a confined conjested area and the only way the bikes make such a racket is through excessive acceleration which by the way is also illegal.
Add to that their fearless exercise of personal freedom (no helmets) and they have a short painful life ahead of them.
But honestly, enforcing noise and nuisance ordinances is going to be more painful than the recent "signdinista" round up. Lots of guilty parties masquerading as innocent taxpayers. (Don't tell Eagleton about this plan...please!)
This evening as I ran along 5 miles of Riverside paths I was assaulted with the illegal nuisance sounds of two commercial jets, a jet boat, diesel air horns (120DB!), and an assortment of irritating leaf blowers and lawnmowers. Not to mention the legal nuisance noise of a fire truck, an ambulance and an incessant train whistle (over 100Db). No motorcycles or whirlybirds today but thats an oddity.
Noise is a judgement call and most noise is temporary in nature unless you live next to an industrial plant. I love the sound of that train whistle and its gutteral engine. I like the sound of WWII war planes occasionally. I even think the helicopters are exciting, temporarily. Ticket them and you get a losing court fight.
If you want to stop the choppers on Brookside and Riverside from creating such racket, ticket them for excessive acceleration. Thats the only way they can make such noise. And that court case will hold up.
quote:
Originally posted by daddys little squirt
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
We can argue round and round about cicadas, leaf blowers, loud music, kids loving it when you rev it up, and all of that. But ya have to admit those super loud bikes are annoying when they go by. Even if they aren't to you, I bet if we were to take a vote a good majority of people would.
The very fact that there are laws against certain types of loud noises means I can't be too alone and crazy in my opinion that those loud bikes are annoying.
I really think its sad that there has to be a law or ordinance against things like loud music in your car or in the neighboring apartment or about loud bikes. I often like listening to loud music but I try to be aware of when it may be annoying to others, like at a stop light or along Brookside, and turn it down. I just think thats being considerate.
Of course the cicadas aren't the problem. I thought you might see the absurdity of trying to quiet down a city when even the country is loud. But temporarily so.
I also detest the straight pipe cycles. Last Friday nite two of them startled me in traffic in the middle of Brookside. But it was a temporary noise and self limiting. By that I mean the drivers are terminally stupid. It is a confined conjested area and the only way the bikes make such a racket is through excessive acceleration which by the way is also illegal.
Add to that their fearless exercise of personal freedom (no helmets) and they have a short painful life ahead of them.
But honestly, enforcing noise and nuisance ordinances is going to be more painful than the recent "signdinista" round up. Lots of guilty parties masquerading as innocent taxpayers. (Don't tell Eagleton about this plan...please!)
This evening as I ran along 5 miles of Riverside paths I was assaulted with the illegal nuisance sounds of two commercial jets, a jet boat, diesel air horns (120DB!), and an assortment of irritating leaf blowers and lawnmowers. Not to mention the legal nuisance noise of a fire truck, an ambulance and an incessant train whistle (over 100Db). No motorcycles or whirlybirds today but thats an oddity.
Noise is a judgement call and most noise is temporary in nature unless you live next to an industrial plant. I love the sound of that train whistle and its gutteral engine. I like the sound of WWII war planes occasionally. I even think the helicopters are exciting, temporarily. Ticket them and you get a losing court fight.
If you want to stop the choppers on Brookside and Riverside from creating such racket, ticket them for excessive acceleration. Thats the only way they can make such noise. And that court case will hold up.
Nope...They like to sit in place and rev em up.....
Mr. William -
There's no doubt my post' are convoluted and hard to read, but all I got from your reply was your dinner conversation, at a outdoor venue on a busy street, was once interrupted by a loud motorcycle.
Speaks to the nature of ones constitution.
Off Topic:
Sure, who on two wheels hasn't? it was great, but it's changed into something other than Carefree - into something the opposite.
A number of years back it was largely nothing and it's people were glad to see another living soul. How old are you?
Hell, seemed bikers were the only people who found value in the area besides some old timers, a few members of Witness Protection, and that old goat Wright screwing hippies up on his taliesin.
Anymore it's like the Women's Aux. moved into town - drawn by the exciting Thrill of The Wild West and it's fresh air - but first order of Biz was to start cleaning it up which tamed the West and ruined it's air.
Good people abound, even still...but it's on our list of unfriendly destinations.
Dang, another pedantic epilogue.
ON TOPIC:
Cave Creek is a good example of how NOT to approach loud pipes.
Just as calling a meeting about motorcycle "noise" on the eve of a charity event billed as "Rumble and Roar" is a good example of how NOT to gather constructive solutions.
I smell a rat.
Its happened many many times and often several times during each "sitting". Brookside is especially bad but it has happened to me along Cherry Street, Rivers Edge, etc. Once while sitting outside and listening to live music a group of them pulled up and made so much noise everyone was looking around and you could barely hear the music.
Regardless, to come back at me like I am one absurd person who had one incident is a bit disingenuous when there are obviously many others who have had similar experiences and feel the same.
Just like when you are stopped at a stop light you turn down your music so as not to bother those around you, why would anyone purposely bother people (and its not just stupid me) while they are enjoying a meal, a conversation or some music?
Btw, your posts are fine, I just didn't want to quote that one and take up a lot of space especially when my responses are often just as long lol.
I also think its a bit fishy to mention the Rumble and Roar charity along Brookside. I certainly would not be against an event like that. Just like any other event, concert, parade etc. if you dont want to go you don't have to, if you do go you will know what to expect. Its one day and you can avoid it or enjoy it. I just don't like the "rumble and roar" every time I go down there lol.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I also think its a bit fishy to mention the Rumble and Roar charity along Brookside. I certainly would not be against an event like that. Just like any other event, concert, parade etc. if you dont want to go you don't have to, if you do go you will know what to expect.
It's not fishy to mention it, check the title of the thread. This "noise meeting" is being done in a hurry to make sure it is held before the charity event. Like the title says, they want to "Limit the Rumble & Roar"
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by daddys little squirt
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
We can argue round and round about cicadas, leaf blowers, loud music, kids loving it when you rev it up, and all of that. But ya have to admit those super loud bikes are annoying when they go by. Even if they aren't to you, I bet if we were to take a vote a good majority of people would.
The very fact that there are laws against certain types of loud noises means I can't be too alone and crazy in my opinion that those loud bikes are annoying.
I really think its sad that there has to be a law or ordinance against things like loud music in your car or in the neighboring apartment or about loud bikes. I often like listening to loud music but I try to be aware of when it may be annoying to others, like at a stop light or along Brookside, and turn it down. I just think thats being considerate.
Of course the cicadas aren't the problem. I thought you might see the absurdity of trying to quiet down a city when even the country is loud. But temporarily so.
I also detest the straight pipe cycles. Last Friday nite two of them startled me in traffic in the middle of Brookside. But it was a temporary noise and self limiting. By that I mean the drivers are terminally stupid. It is a confined conjested area and the only way the bikes make such a racket is through excessive acceleration which by the way is also illegal.
Add to that their fearless exercise of personal freedom (no helmets) and they have a short painful life ahead of them.
But honestly, enforcing noise and nuisance ordinances is going to be more painful than the recent "signdinista" round up. Lots of guilty parties masquerading as innocent taxpayers. (Don't tell Eagleton about this plan...please!)
This evening as I ran along 5 miles of Riverside paths I was assaulted with the illegal nuisance sounds of two commercial jets, a jet boat, diesel air horns (120DB!), and an assortment of irritating leaf blowers and lawnmowers. Not to mention the legal nuisance noise of a fire truck, an ambulance and an incessant train whistle (over 100Db). No motorcycles or whirlybirds today but thats an oddity.
Noise is a judgement call and most noise is temporary in nature unless you live next to an industrial plant. I love the sound of that train whistle and its gutteral engine. I like the sound of WWII war planes occasionally. I even think the helicopters are exciting, temporarily. Ticket them and you get a losing court fight.
If you want to stop the choppers on Brookside and Riverside from creating such racket, ticket them for excessive acceleration. Thats the only way they can make such noise. And that court case will hold up.
Nope...They like to sit in place and rev em up.....
Can you respond to the post with more than one liners? Okay, ticket them for excessive RPM generation.
If you go after noise or nuisance specifically for cycles, the unintended consequences will be great. The city cannot defend ordinances written to discriminate against one class of folks and ignore abuses by others. I personally will complain about the commercial leaf blowers in my hood and besiege the police with complaints about the unneccesary helicopter assaults by the local TV people (three copters at the moment).
As a side note, one of my friends lives along Peoria and is a big complainer about the idiots who scream past their home at 2am with pipes blazing. She is passionate about them. Of course the big block straight pipe jet boat that her husband assaults people with at the lake doesn't seem to be a problem.
Ordinances are a poor response to this problem. You will invite an ABATE type retaliation.
Kinda off topic but:
"...didn't want to quote that one and take up...space...my responses...just as long lol." - mr. william
No, I said my post's are convoluted (stating the obvious) - has nothing to do with you.
Simply, I find your post's impossible to read.
And that's besides your "lol's" which is how my nephew (age 9) writes.
Case in point: I wanted to suggest to griz that you indeed caught my drift of "smelling a rat" - but can't because I can't make sense of your remark either.
Does anyone other than me feel the Police Helicopter violates the "noise limits"...?
Personally; I would much rather hear the sound of "Choppers".... as in Motorcycles...
Than "Chopper" as in Police Helicopter...
maybe that's just me.
[}:)]
"She is passionate about them" - Squirt Daddy
Yeah, lotta chicks dig Dudes on bikes.
What's her name, I probably know her.
[8D]
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I also think its a bit fishy to mention the Rumble and Roar charity along Brookside. I certainly would not be against an event like that. Just like any other event, concert, parade etc. if you dont want to go you don't have to, if you do go you will know what to expect.
It's not fishy to mention it, check the title of the thread. This "noise meeting" is being done in a hurry to make sure it is held before the charity event. Like the title says, they want to "Limit the Rumble & Roar"
Aaah, it sounded to me as thought they were having the meeting about limiting the loud motorcycles in general and not "expressly" to do something about the charity event. But your saying in actuality it really is mainly about the charity event?
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
Kinda off topic but:
"...didn't want to quote that one and take up...space...my responses...just as long lol." - mr. william
No, I said my post's are convoluted (stating the obvious) - has nothing to do with you.
Simply, I find your post's impossible to read.
And that's besides your "lol's" which is how my nephew (age 9) writes.
Case in point: I wanted to suggest to griz that you indeed caught my drift of "smelling a rat" - but can't because I can't make sense of your remark either.
My apologies. I misunderstood.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Aaah, it sounded to me as thought they were having the meeting about limiting the loud motorcycles in general and not "expressly" to do something about the charity event. But your saying in actuality it really is mainly about the charity event?
The topic is overall noise control, but they want to make sure it happens before the charity event. It's not coincidence.
The air national guard jets flying over Tulsa today sure were loud.
Can we muffle them?
Soooo last night some wiseacre was peeling around Brookside, laying rubber and what not. This AM there was a sixty-foot-long pair of skid marks culminating in a cracked curb at the end of 35th and Troost, with a puddle of engine goo trailing off.
Heh heh.
A pair of skid mark's, eh?
Your level of sophistication is amazingly unremarkable.
Or do you just take pleasure in any loud vehicle, cage or bike, being smacked up?
What some Dude in a Camero steal your girlfriend back in high school? [B)]
Do Tell!
Interesting, what's coming back at me this morning is that no Clubs, Orgs, or Groups in the MC community have even heard of it, let alone were given notice to attend - which makes the meeting bogus, as stated here.
If it turns out to be nothing more then a *i%c# session for a select few residents - here's hoping Carson is smart enough to see through it.
Even if word comes back otherwise - in these last few hours - I'll obviously do better to address the matter in writing (as learned from this thread, and after much editing).
Fine by me, Da Saprano's friggin' pop on @ Eight.
It is my fragile nerves, JD! Ooooh all the loud noise makes me want to cry like a baby! Waaaahhh a chopper! Waaaaahhh a hot rod! Waaahh starving musicians at drunk magnets on Brookside!
Would a pair of skid marks mean two cars lost control? If so, I mean to say a single pair of skid marks . . .
Brought up on military bases, I am afraid all the loud noises have made me shell-shocked . . .
I belive a "pair of skid marks" refers to:
Two (2) most likely parallel, black trails of typically rubber, that run for some distance longer then 1".
Thus a pair of such indicates a single car or two motorcycles.
I think we might agree that Unicycles are highy unlikely to be the cause of skid marks, unless we concider the possibilty of one, two, or even a few on typ of eachother, that are being drug down the road under bus.
I admit to chuming the thread.
With goo trailing off, and a pair of skid marks, I figure it was a lone cager that managed to limp quitely towards home or repair shop.
While hanging out at drunk magnets I always have a single pair of underwear on hand to whip-out and snap over my head in hopes of getting a date.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
While I'm all for following the law, it seems that many times it's the bikers and bar owners who are getting the short end of it. Didn't the blue rose close down after the bikes were made to leave? Aren't the bikers putting a large chunk of cash INTO brookside?
There are a large contingent of bikers who go by the slogan "loud pipes save lives" and have loud exhaust for the purpose of protection because vehicles regularly make lane changes into motorcyclists and injure/kill them. Now I know there has to be maximum noise limit etc, but I know there are plenty of people in the brookside area who just want the bikes gone and I think that is wrong.
I figured your quote was as good a starting point for my own little manifesto on this.
FWIW, the owner of the Blue Rose had pretty much played it out for all it was worth. The bikes weren't kicked out, they were told to quit parking on a public sidewalk. There was also some background maneuvering by a couple of other bar owners stirring the pot to get his outdoor live music kaboshed. He had the first successful business on that corner since OTASCO moved out and it ruffled some feathers.
I have been friends with him ever since right before the BR opened. He also made the foolish venture off into Steamroller Blues & BBQ which was mediocre food at best. When he took over the old El Paso BBQ location at 81st & Harvard, he over-extended his financial and personal resources.
One thing he over-looked is his (and his late ex-wife's) personal involvement in the Blue Rose was a big part of it's formula for success. Maintenance went downhill, other people were running the day-to-day operations, and Tom's personal touch was no longer apparent. It had run it's course.
As far as pipes: I've ridden motorcycles for 30 years now. I've put open pipes on in the past, but the older I get, the less I like them. In the absence of other tuning modifications, it actually kills power, it doesn't make them faster, just louder. My ex-wife asked me one time: "Why do Harley riders always either accellerate or rev up your engine under an overpass? The answer: "Because we can!"
I've also worked on motorcycles for a living a couple of different times in my life. At the present I'm building a 1945 Harley EL Knucklehead bobber (period-correct custom). It will be muffled to a sane level. Sound won't keep me safe on it, only common sense and keeping a good lookout.
Loud pipes don't save lives, common sense does. A regular customer at the bike shop I worked for when I was going to college about 20 years ago told me at the time he had over 100,000 miles under his belt on two wheels. I asked him how he'd been accident free. His reply was simple: "Ride like you are invisible." I asked if that meant he smoked a joint before riding. [8D]
He explained it this way: figure that no one else on the road can see you and always keep a scan from your front fender to about 1/4 of a mile up the road, and don't ride in a car's blind spot.
When I ran into Dave a few years ago, he said he was somewhere in the 750,000 mile range still without accident. I asked: "Are you still invisible when you ride?" Reply: "You bet".
I live around 15th & Harvard. Never fails, most weekends and some weeknights, I'm awakened after mid-night by people leaving the Buccaneer, or Ed's racking off their pipes down Harvard or 15th.
I personally, don't see why the rights of a handfull of bikers should supercede the rights of thousands of others to enjoy peace and quiet and a good sleep. Yep, I've been one of the cretins with loud pipes in the past. Looking at it from the other side of the issue has made me want to be a more "neighborly" rider.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
The air national guard jets flying over Tulsa today sure were loud.
Can we muffle them?
Only if they fly over Brookside 20 times a day, every day, and are loud enough to interrupt my conversation. Everyone knows that what I have to say is far to important to be interrupted. [:P]
Oh, and well said Conan.
See Manifesto Above:
Conan, I take it that in your opinon there is no edge to be had by announcing ones presence with loud pipes, under any or all circumstances, in the course of negotiating traffic on public roads?
That being incapuslated in a car so that of our 4.78 senses, only sight and hearing coming into play, that no one behind the wheel has ever been made aware of a motorbike coming up on them by hearing them?
Is that correct?
That there's no advantage whatsoever?
Further aside:
Barry rides stealth mode. Was pissed that headlights became law because he swears people aim for his light.
Skills, Presence, stratogy, Response...and one big bag of lucky stars to count. I'll take one of all the above please. jdb
OK, here is my prediction, a mere hour away, concerning the rat I alluded to earlier.
If I am wrong, then I will stand humbly corrected.
Thus:
" A few citizens that live nextdoor to eachother have become OCD about motorcycles, particularly in front of our homes.
City Councilor Cason Carter has been bullyied into setting a meeting on Wednesday, May 30, 5 p.m. in Rm 201, City Hall to hear our gripes about the "Rumble & Roar" crap on June 7.
The meeting will be attended by a few select residents, one whom owns a bar, and other who once rode a motorcycle to Jenks and back.
Representatives from the police, neighborhood inspections and the mayor's office were also nagged about attending.
If you hate motorcycles like we do, attend this meeting and tell all your friends to do the same!
For further information contact me, Greg Bledsoe, bledsoe@aol.com
Hmmmm, no mention of Mayor Taylor herself?
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
See Manifesto Above:
Conan, I take it that in your opinon there is no edge to be had by announcing ones presence with loud pipes, under any or all circumstances, in the course of negotiating traffic on public roads?
That being incapuslated in a car so that of our 4.78 senses, only sight and hearing coming into play, that no one behind the wheel has ever been made aware of a motorbike coming up on them by hearing them?
Is that correct?
That there's no advantage whatsoever?
Further aside:
Barry rides stealth mode. Was pissed that headlights became law because he swears people aim for his light.
Skills, Presence, stratogy, Response...and one big bag of lucky stars to count. I'll take one of all the above please. jdb
Probably some advantage to the louder pipes, in some cases. However a lot of people who drive have had a cranial/rectal implant and can't hear or see anything when they drive except their own ****.
Most of the brothers I know use it as an excuse to be loud and obnoxious. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's the law, but I don't figure it's up to the driver of a cage to make sure I have a safe ride. Sound only matters if they don't have their stereo turned up or don't have Ipod buds in their ears, which I see more and more of.
I've almost been run over or merged into several times with un-corked drag pipes, so no, I don't think there's that much of an advantage. I think spots on either side of the headlamp are the best notificaion of my presence on the road, and yes I will have them operational on my springer.
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
See Manifesto Above:
Conan, I take it that in your opinon there is no edge to be had by announcing ones presence with loud pipes, under any or all circumstances, in the course of negotiating traffic on public roads?
That being incapuslated in a car so that of our 4.78 senses, only sight and hearing coming into play, that no one behind the wheel has ever been made aware of a motorbike coming up on them by hearing them?
Is that correct?
That there's no advantage whatsoever?
Further aside:
Barry rides stealth mode. Was pissed that headlights became law because he swears people aim for his light.
Skills, Presence, stratogy, Response...and one big bag of lucky stars to count. I'll take one of all the above please. jdb
"An edge"? "any and all circumstances"? Is that what it really comes down to? Are there no other things that can give that much edge in as many circumstances, that won't annoy the dickens out of so many other people? Perhaps a bright red santa suit or some flashing strobes, a loud horn?
Perhaps its just me but if I am on the highway I never hear those bikes until they are right beside me. Wind? Doppler shift? Time it takes for someone to get close enough to hear and then pass is very quick? In other circumstances everyone is going slow enough that you can easily see what cars may pull out in front of you or may swerve into your lane well beforehand. Defensive driving is the best edge for everyone.
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
While hanging out at drunk magnets I always have a single pair of underwear on hand to whip-out and snap over my head in hopes of getting a date.
As a dear friend of jdb's, I will attest to this little bit of trivia.
As far as skidmarks and goo puddles, perhaps the city council would be using it's time better to ban my ex-husband.
Back to the original point of this thread. I live one block from Cherry Street, and one of the best times of the year is hearing the roar coming down the road from the bikes during the annual toy ride.
I have a biker neighbor, and I'd much rather him come home and "shake my windows" (yes, they need glazing...but at least they have new sash cords, by gawd)....than to hear my other neighbor with his karaoke machine permanently fixed to "Friends in Low Places" for the musical enjoyment of the block at 3am on Tuesdays.
Also, motorcycles are damn sexy. That is all.
"Probably some advantage to the louder pipes, in some cases." - Conan71
That it's one of several available tools, cool.
Like firearms in the woods, it's better to have one and not need it then...
Condoms at the Prom, Church key at the lake, a file in your birthday cake when the judge gives you Life for emitting a noise that disrupts the tranquility of Pussified America.
Not bad, only 9 million words to finally get a nod, if reluctant, from someone in here.
I'll take it!
jdb
I can see people getting upset about loud noises in the normally peaceful neighborhoods. I get upset at much less things than this...
(I think it is the Atkins diet...everybody on it is cranky...next time I seem upset, offer me a bagel).
But do we really want to send a message out that Tulsa is a motorcycle unfriendly town? I don't ride and don't go to the two big Harley stores in town, but they must be very important to the local economy. They are always crowded there with visitor money generating some serious sales tax income from these bikers.
The guy on Memorial even has a packed restaurant to go with his souvenir business... oh yeah, they also sell very expensive bikes.
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
"Probably some advantage to the louder pipes, in some cases." - Conan71
That it's one of several available tools, cool.
Like firearms in the woods, it's better to have one and not need it then...
Condoms at the Prom, Church key at the lake, a file in your birthday cake when the judge gives you Life for emitting a noise that disrupts the tranquility of Pussified America.
Not bad, only 9 million words to finally get a nod, if reluctant, from someone in here.
I'll take it!
jdb
I like guns in the woods!!!
You'll have to forgive me becoming an old fart at a young age. I will say the police chopper flying over my house for 10 minutes is a worse annoyance than someone blasting down Harvard at 2am. But I still believe the rights of a majority of citizens supercedes those of a smaller minority.
I seldom ride anymore, partially because I need to finish building my new scoot (after I finish the '45 Knucklehead I've got a '48 Harley Hummer to build- restoring bikes for other people for four years will burn you out). That and I took sailing up again last year because it's quiet and peaceful. Go figure, I've been around auto racing tracks and bikes all my life and now about all I want to do on weekends is ghost across the water.
My eyesight and hearing are beginning to dim a little, though my wife says the hearing part is mostly selective. [;)]
Police helicopter was over my house from like 2:30 to 3:30 this morning. I guess after an hour they decided I wasn't coming out.
Anybody go to the meeting?
"But I still believe the rights of a majority of citizens supercedes those of a smaller minority." - Conan71
Sure, just as the rights of a majority of bikers supercedes those of a smaller minority of disrespectfull bikers.
However, it's selective and discriminatory to hold motorcycles soley responible and accountable for the burden of noise pollution.
I got notes from two in attendance and am waiting on a sit down with a third. So far, my prediction stands largely correct.
No one from COC, ABATE, HOG was contacted, not one Club, Org. or Group.
Speaks to the sincerity of seeking "a constructive and fair solution".
Words out now though and I'll bet it'll be decades before you'll have to concider putting whispers on that Springer.
Planet will run out gasoline long before that, jdb
For The Record: I run moderate D&D pipes and comply with ALL local ords. Hell, I passed the Cave Creek Acid Test with a few DB's to spare. But I can also hold my head up in Pawhuska when the obnoxious urge tickles my intoxicated youthful spirit.
Lisa - Can't believe your Ex came back after the last beating we gave him..tell us when and where.
Oh and I believe I still have two or three pairs of tighty whity's over at your place.
Wanna make it four?
Note to self: re-ignore artist.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
QuoteOriginally posted by jdb
[br But I still believe the rights of a majority of citizens supercedes those of a smaller minority.
You might consider re-wording that phrase. The rights of a minority are exactly equal to those of a majority. Rights are rights. The majority, however, may exert more pressure on government to obtain rights that match their interests.
Otherwise a majority may decide that they intend to hang loud bikers and their rights would supercede those of the minority.
There are so many more important issues than this one that deserve attention. As a former hippie, disco king, tennis player and parent I can recognize some of what JB must be feeling. Each of those movements suffered from attemts to villify its participants. If you simply loved free thinking, dancing, tennis or children, you still got swept up with the negatives related to the actions of wannabe participants.
The defensiveness that true bike lovers display is the reaction to the negatives that the public attaches to any popular movement. At first they humor it, then they embrace it, then they turn against it.
BTW, I had some lovely Thrush mufflers on my Chevy that irritated the hell out of folks for years. But I loved the throaty sound. Now they would be tame.
"You might consider re-wording that phrase."
Busted.
There I was, riding high on that victorious wave of a Nod and failed to pause and contemplate just how easy that phrase came to me and now - shot with my own gun.
I am actually embarrassed at what I over-looked.
Not a first, but sudden remorse sucks. jdb
quote:
Originally posted by daddys little squirt
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
QuoteOriginally posted by jdb
[br But I still believe the rights of a majority of citizens supercedes those of a smaller minority.
You might consider re-wording that phrase. The rights of a minority are exactly equal to those of a majority. Rights are rights. The majority, however, may exert more pressure on government to obtain rights that match their interests.
Otherwise a majority may decide that they intend to hang loud bikers and their rights would supercede those of the minority.
There are so many more important issues than this one that deserve attention. As a former hippie, disco king, tennis player and parent I can recognize some of what JB must be feeling. Each of those movements suffered from attemts to villify its participants. If you simply loved free thinking, dancing, tennis or children, you still got swept up with the negatives related to the actions of wannabe participants.
The defensiveness that true bike lovers display is the reaction to the negatives that the public attaches to any popular movement. At first they humor it, then they embrace it, then they turn against it.
BTW, I had some lovely Thrush mufflers on my Chevy that irritated the hell out of folks for years. But I loved the throaty sound. Now they would be tame.
No, no need to re-word it. Ordinances are usually written to the benefit of a greater majority (or to the benefit of greedy politicians [;)]). The ordinances are pretty clear on sound and required mechanical equipment and for good reason.
I don't see being a loud biker as being much different than allowing your dog to constantly crap on your neighbor's lawn when you've got perfectly good grass in your own yard.
Someone can choose to keep the RPM's down if they have open pipes and it's not much louder than a muffled bike. Many of the louder ones I see and hear are jerk-off rubbies racing from stoplight to stoplight with OCC look-alike choppers with street sweepers.
Bikers can police their own behavior and that would keep cops from sticking broom handles up exhaust pipes. You can ride an un-corked bike as quiet as you want, or as loud as you want.
Message is: don't be a moron with what you are riding and no one will give two sh!ts whether or not you have "functioning" mufflers. I have the same advice for people with $5000 car stereos and Toyotas with buzz-bomb mufflers.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
I can see people getting upset about loud noises in the normally peaceful neighborhoods. I get upset at much less things than this...
(I think it is the Atkins diet...everybody on it is cranky...next time I seem upset, offer me a bagel).
But do we really want to send a message out that Tulsa is a motorcycle unfriendly town? I don't ride and don't go to the two big Harley stores in town, but they must be very important to the local economy. They are always crowded there with visitor money generating some serious sales tax income from these bikers.
The guy on Memorial even has a packed restaurant to go with his souvenir business... oh yeah, they also sell very expensive bikes.
No I certainly wouldn't want people to think Tulsa was a motorcycle unfriendly town. I have actually been thinking of getting one to scoot around town in, just don't know what kind would be best yet. Most motorcycles are not as loud as the ones that stop a conversation when they go by or rattle your windows. Those are the minority. Its that minority within the bikeriding community, I would guess less than 10%, that are super loud that are the really annoying ones.
I have been paying attention to the "sound levels" of different motorcycles as I drive around lately. During lunch on an errand today I drove by 4 motorcycles. None of them were very loud at all. The one that was the loudest you couldnt hear until it was about a car lenght away, so definitely no help on the awareness front. I hate to imagine how loud a bike would have to be to be heard across an intersection or a block away in order for someone to be made aware of them if they didn't see them.
It seems to only be a few biker enthusiast types that have the loud pipes. They don't really use their bikes as transportation to and from work, running errands, etc. but are being "bikers" with all the appropriate costume and culture, not the average guy on a motorcycle.
I would say that more people should consider riding motorcycles, vespas and bicycles, like they do in Europe. They are more energy effecient, environmentally friendly, and don't have to be super loud.
Did anyone attend the meeting? I heard that it was very well attended (over 50 or so), with many complaints of the noise, but that very little was offered in the way of a solution or compromise.
I appreciate the desire to maintain Tulsa as biker friendly, but surely there can be some middle ground. I know people who just moved here from Manhattan, and bought a house near Brookside. They are about to put their house back up for sale because they cannot stand the noise. Obviously, they know urban noise. This isn't just a few motorcycles buzzing by--its being blasted out of your sleep at 3 am by bikes as loud as planes. I don't know the solution--you don't want to blame all bikers for a few obnoxious ones, but people do have a right not to have their peace disturbed.
Originally posted by pmcalk.
"Did anyone attend the meeting? I heard that it was very well attended (over 50 or so), with many complaints of the noise, but that very little was offered in the way of a solution or compromise."
^
Damn that sounds a lot like the meeting regarding the sound abatement program offered by Cinnebar..
Still hasn't been fixed has it...?
[}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
Did anyone attend the meeting? I heard that it was very well attended (over 50 or so), with many complaints of the noise, but that very little was offered in the way of a solution or compromise.
I appreciate the desire to maintain Tulsa as biker friendly, but surely there can be some middle ground. I know people who just moved here from Manhattan, and bought a house near Brookside. They are about to put their house back up for sale because they cannot stand the noise. Obviously, they know urban noise. This isn't just a few motorcycles buzzing by--its being blasted out of your sleep at 3 am by bikes as loud as planes. I don't know the solution--you don't want to blame all bikers for a few obnoxious ones, but people do have a right not to have their peace disturbed.
Again, simple solution. If people would ride more neighbor-friendly in the middle of the night, no one would care if they have mufflers or not.
I seriously doubt any of the "obnoxious" bikers would appreciate it if I pulled into their driveway at 7am while they are sleeping off their partying from the night before and I laid on the horn of my truck for 15-30 seconds, or backed my bike in the driveway and laid into the throttle.
Noise-sensitive neighbors (and possibly the horse racing lobby had something to do with it [8)] )
did get auto racing booted from the nicest dirt track venue of it's kind anywhere up to that point in history- Expo Square. Activist neighbors
can make things happen.
Funny retribution story, then I'll turn the floor back to someone else:
A friend of mine used to live on Union between 41st & 51st. There's a series of smaller rental properties to the north of his old house. He had a problem with a neighbor in the rental next to his house who would stay up, party and carry on till 2:30am or so on weeknights. He was finally sick of it.
He had an old, crapped-out lawn mower in his garage. One morning before work, he fired up the lawn mower at 6:30am and ran it up and down his chat gravel driveway which separated the two properties for 15 minutes. They got the message, problem solved. [}:)]
I am not opposed to guys with modified exhaust or open pipes on their bikes, I have a modified exhaust on my own car. I understand the idea of cracking it open going under overpasses, I'm guilty of it myself. The only thing that I ask is have a little respect for the area you are in. The photo is from the back yard of one of my wifes clients in Carefree AZ. (She has her own dog walking and pet sitting business) About a 1/4 mile west of this house (the photo is looking west) is a Street named Tom Darlington. It is the continuation of Scottsdale Road going north into Carefree. You can hear the open pipe bikes going over the speed limit from a half mile south all the way going north from this spot. And this area is not all retirees as was mentioned earlier. I just ask people to use common sense, I do not wish to critisize people for their tuning or dressing their bike or car because of the noise. One of my neighbors has a kit Cobra that he built and he has the courtesy to respect the nieghborhood when driving it.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/FrankVivian002.jpg)
Always loved the town name of "Carefree".
I'd never seen the Phoenix area and had never driven out to Az. until last November. I can understand your attraction to the area.
Whenever I talk to my father-in-law (lives in S'dale) during the summer, he will be griping about how hot it is. I'll say: "yeah but it's dry heat." To which he says: "Dry heat my donkey! It's still hot!" [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Always loved the town name of "Carefree".
I'd never seen the Phoenix area and had never driven out to Az. until last November. I can understand your attraction to the area.
Whenever I talk to my father-in-law (lives in S'dale) during the summer, he will be griping about how hot it is. I'll say: "yeah but it's dry heat." To which he says: "Dry heat my donkey! It's still hot!" [}:)]
Yeah, I don't care what the temp is, once it gets above 108, it's damn hot! They're predicting that this summer we may break the all time record of 122. I hope that I'm in California at the beach that day.
But the other 8months of the year it's some of the best weather, which explains the huge number of motorcycle enthusiest that we get from all over the world. A couple of years ago, my wife and I were coming back from Vegas to visit her brother and his family, we came across a couple of nice dresser Harleys with liscence plates from Holland. There was a news story a couple of days later about them, they were doing a lap around the US on their bikes.
...So the story going around now is that TPD recently invited media for a photo-op of them giving tickets along Brookside.
Two dudes and a chick cited for loud pipes apparently told one of the photographers they were engineers for a "major" oil refinery and that you had to clear security and sign a waiver to photograph them.
Dude, that only works on company property and not flashing your babe around Brookside.
Kids these days :-)
quote:
Originally posted by patric
...So the story going around now is that TPD recently invited media for a photo-op of them giving tickets along Brookside.
Two dudes and a chick cited for loud pipes apparently told one of the photographers they were engineers for a "major" oil refinery and that you had to clear security and sign a waiver to photograph them.
Dude, that only works on company property and not flashing your babe around Brookside.
Kids these days :-)
Carries about as much weight as me saying "But I'm a "City Father" on Tulsa Now. [;)]
Since we revived this thread...
I very much enjoy some noisy vehicles: the rattle of a VW, the purr of an old Charger, or the rumble of a Harley. However, the WEEEEEEEEEEEE of a Honda with an over side muffler, the deafening roar of a straight pipe, or the puff puff clank of a muffler hole are not only too load, but also unimpressive. For the lover of god, loader does not mean better. I know your Honda only sports a 125 hp and that your motorcycle packs 1100cc. Good or you.
Why would it be enjoyable to ride on a bike with straight pipes anyway? If it hurts my ears when you drive by, I would think the "joy" of riding would give way.
quote:
...So the story going around now is that TPD recently invited media for a photo-op of them giving tickets along Brookside.
The media calls on a nearly-daily basis looking for story ideas. Loud mufflers just happen to be the most current. Watch for another one (maybe red light runners) on Wednesday.
Police are working around Brookside and Cherry Street on the weekend evenings targeting those ear-piercing mufflers.
Whistler Tips (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK18wQA-tHs%22)
I see a couple of our own TN members were mentioned in the Tulsa World story on the Brookside Assn. meeting regarding the MC issue this morning.
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
"Trains blasting their horns is mainly to alert people that they're coming..." - rwarn
Motorbikes are "blasting" pipes for much the same reason: allbeit a selfish pursuit of staying alive.
Comfort is for sissies!
Funny how things come around and around, except that I imagine some may be getting busted again on "the ribbon" when once (at least in my youth) it was for "glass packs" or having "the dumps" open for the next "run", now it is simply to boost the look-at-me factor.
So to promote safety; I propose that the next episode of American Chopper feature a new forward facing exhaust so as to better alert those ahead of the rider (if noise is such a good defense hey why not make the best of it), or better yet one pipe aimed each way just to be extra safe...
Several years back my (now former) neighbors Harley (and I grew up riding, so I like bikes and had one at the time) was so loud it would drown out a train at a rumble fest (his words not mine)... funny thing is that under his rag, he wore ear plugs when he rode! We had a great friendship only challenged by his rumbling departures and arrivals so we had a deal the later he came roaring in, the longer I warmed up my diesel pick-up in the mornings, he was a bit of a slow learner but about half way through a cold duck season his rumbling arrivals ceased.
KC - just my opinion
Ps. and if your $20+grand (and way-way up) toy won't idle without your having to always roll the throttle at intersections or when pulling out while the band is playing outside...TAKE IT BACK and GET IT FIXED!
Funny, how they just seem to idle better with quiet exhaust.
I love watching those numptys gettin tickets.......
Well, I ride a cruiser - not a Harley and I don't have straight pipes or a loud exhaust. But I am a biker.
I will be honest - I find them incredibly annoying. I refuse to ride with them anywhere. Who wants to listen to those pipes all day?
Loud Pipes Save Lives is their slogun. Obviously, no one that believes this has ever opened a science book and studied the rules of sound travel.
Science aside, cars are made to shut out sound now days - they don't hear emergency vehicles they are certainly not going to hear a motorcycle.
Nope, they are loud to piss people off and it's working. I hope they get tickets every time they go anywhere in Tulsa.
I don't want bikes gone - I want them to be quiet.[:D]
There are tools in every crowd. If riders would self-police they won't need the city to police them. I'm on a big biker email list for Tulsa. There's been some emails going around talking about peer pressure on the knot-heads being the best enforcement amongst bikers.
I'm guilty of obnoxious noise habits in the past, but the older I get, the more I realize how much loud mufflers and stereos really are annoying. I guess that's old fartism setting in.
Personally, there is nothing funnier than seeing a new credit card biker cob his throttle leaving Crow Creek, then listening to him float a valve when he misses his shift to 2nd gear.
I like to sit across from Crow creek and watch the drunk riders tip over trying to leave. that should be an olympic sport.[:D]
People need to understand that we are not talking about problem kids... we are talking about people who are old enough to know better. But, for some reason their folks forgot to teach them to respect other people.
On the other hand, what goes around comes around. Someday it will be those guys wanting peace and quiet and it will be someone else making them miserable and telling them to get over it.