I can't believe we as taxpayers are giving the Bells family $210,000 to dismantle the Zingo faster. KRMG had a good point when asking what the rush was for and there was really no good answer. When asked about recouping the money, there was no real answer either.
Seems like moneys were given due to emotional reasons for the most part.
Didn't know it was happening.
Might we be close to finding an ulterior motive for having Bells out?
Fair Board Approves $210,000 to help Bell's Move.
http://tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070522_1_A9_Theco53425
KRMG talked to Randy Miller this morning and I was left even more against this gift that before she explained it.
Apparently, it is an "emotional issue" and they want to "do everything we can to work with and help the Bell family." Poor Robby Bell has been working "by himself with a wrench" to take down the Zingo and just wont get it done in time. Because its "emotional" they dont want to enforce the contract and fine them if they are not out on time.
quote:
Joe Kelley Question: "You must have a plan to recoup the $210,000 - it has to come from somewhere. Right?"
- Absolutely.
Joe - "Well, what's the plan?"
- "It will be used for parking . . . maybe VIP parking or something. But with the horse show, the gun show and the fair coming up the parking will be utilized."
Joe - "Paid parking?"
- That is something we do not decide.
Joe - Well, that doesnt make up the $210,000 then, where is the money coming from?
- I Just want to make it clear that we want the best for th Bell family (continues to ignore the question.
First they kick out Bells
WITHOUT A PLAN for the land, which I was against. If they had a damn plan for something better, fine. But the main reason for kicking the out was because the business plan indicated they would go belly up and we would have to pay for it. We were ASSURED that the space would not just be parking.
Now we are paying for it anyway and the space is going to be parking. The two things we sought to avoid in the first place.
-----
And lastly, I do not care how 'mean' it seems we are being to Robby Bell. He ran his business into the ground, tough crap. Get out on time or pay the fines. If I ran my business into the ground the government wouldnt pay me $210,000 to help salvage it.
Yeah, that interview she gave was absolutely ridiculous. Here ya go Bell, have fun with the $210,000.00
If Bells didnt finish on time, wouldnt the county have had to pay for it's dismantling anyway (since they're in a rush for more Murphy/parking space)?
quote:
Originally posted by patric
If Bells didnt finish on time, wouldnt the county have had to pay for it's dismantling anyway (since they're in a rush for more Murphy/parking space)?
They could knock it over and haul it off.
They could knock it down, haul it off, and then charge him for their trouble.
He is in breach of his terms, not the county.
I am relocating soon and the process is very emotional to me. I am having to pack my own clothes and furniture with my own hands. Can I get some tax payer money to help me move?
This is friggin unreal.
quote:
Originally posted by guido911
I am relocating soon and the process is very emotional to me. I am having to pack my own clothes and furniture with my own hands. Can I get some tax payer money to help me move?
This is friggin unreal.
I'm into give-aways with my money. PM me your email address and I'll mail you a check for $210K. I hope that will help with the stress, Guido. [;)]
They should have just ponied up between the councilors and bought Robby and his workers some crank. Would've been a lot cheaper and they'd be done next week.
Fair Board should also approve funding to re-assemble the Roller Coaster at the new location.
I believe that had you lived in the apartments to the west of Jamil's Steak house on East 51st street recently you would of received a check for $5,000 for moving expenses from ODOT due to the expansion of I-44.
This seems to be a similar situation where the Fair Board needed the property for future projects that Bell's was leasing. They made that statement in their response.
Seems only fair for them to assist with the move. How many millions of dollars has the Fair Board earned from the rent that Bell's has paid them for 50 years of occupancy? How many millions of dollars of Tulsa State Fair Tickets were purchased by Fair goers for years, that were drawn to the Fair primarily by the Bells attractions?
Sharing a few dollars of those proceeds does not seem out of line to me. I still believe that Bell's Amusement Park should of been one of the Vision 2025 projects.
Guess construction of a new water park in Broken Arrow, and the giant park improvement project east of hwy 75 near downtown were much more important than perserving or moving the only existing Amusement Park in Tulsa County.
Look around Expo Square and you will see several Vision 2025 projects and improvements. I still cannont understand why Bell's was left out of that funding.
Kudos to the Fair Board for approving funding for helping to perserve Zingo!
AMP wrote:
Fair Board should also approve funding to re-assemble the Roller Coaster at the new location.
<end clip>
That's a big caveat -- "at the new location."
There is going to be no new location as long as Robby Bell runs the amusement park.
If someone buys the assets off him (and that's a big if), then there MAY be interest.
AMP, you have to be kidding me.
Bell's was a RENTER at the fair grounds. Bell's did not own the land and thus can be made to leave at any time under the terms of the contract. The people moving due to the I-44 project were evicted using eminent domain and thus have to be compensated.
Bell's is a business for profit. They paid rent and they made money. It was a BUSINESS. It is not the county's fault nor responsibility to subsidize poorly run businesses. Name a company that could go 10 years without doing any improvements and stay in business?
quote:
How many millions of dollars has the Fair Board earned from the rent that Bell's has paid them for 50 years of occupancy? How many millions of dollars of Tulsa State Fair Tickets were purchased by Fair goers for years, that were drawn to the Fair primarily by the Bells attractions?
How many millions have the Bell's earned while renting county land for cheap? Again, it was a BUSINESS decision. Just like renting office space - it is no favor to the landlord.
And I would surmise if one party benefited more than the other, Bell's leached off of the state fair.
If we denied the contract for the Tallon's to play in the convention center shall we pay them to go somewhere else too? What other businesses should the county support?
Thanks Conan, but my relocation is local.
BTW, Screw Bell's amusement park. The way it looks now is the best it has looked for years.
I think Miller inadvertently tipped her hand this morning on KRMG. If you listened closely enough, you heard her let it slip that what they were going to use Bell's spot for was VIP parking.
Translation: Free parking for Miller, her family and business cronies.
Am I suggesting that Miller and the rest of her staff would stoop so low as to remove a Tulsa landmark just for a better parking spot? YOU BETCHA! She has no care for Tulsa or for those for whom she works. In her little mind, the rest of us actually work for her.
Ah yes, the corrupt wheels of Tulsa county politics is alive and well, and are freely spinning.
[/quote]
They should have just ponied up between the councilors and bought Robby and his workers some crank. Would've been a lot cheaper and they'd be done next week.
[/quote]
I would bet that a small percentage of that 210,000 will do just that?
quote:
Originally posted by LilMikey
I think Miller inadvertently tipped her hand this morning on KRMG. If you listened closely enough, you heard her let it slip that what they were going to use Bell's spot for was VIP parking.
Translation: Free parking for Miller, her family and business cronies.
Am I suggesting that Miller and the rest of her staff would stoop so low as to remove a Tulsa landmark just for a better parking spot? YOU BETCHA! She has no care for Tulsa or for those for whom she works. In her little mind, the rest of us actually work for her.
Ah yes, the corrupt wheels of Tulsa county politics is alive and well, and are freely spinning.
Why not build a parking garage there, charge for premium parking, provide free handicap access to the expo, and leave the rest free for old fashioned types who will resent a fee?
I want to hear some development plans. If the Drillers head downtown (which I think would be great for Tulsa) whats a good fit for the new available real estate? What's the long term plan for developing the fairgrounds into a long term central attraction and profit machine?? Without a plan, we'll just wind up with a year-round gun show.
Never said Bell's owned the property, however their are laws regarding real estate and lease agreements. The renewal and signing of the recent contract between Bell's and the Expo, and this current evection action against Bell's is tantamount to an unconscionable act in most opinions of Real Estate Law.
These following items would lead most people n with basic common sense to believe the County and Expo Square were at one time either in favor of or were lying to Bell's regarding their commitment towarads the Amusement Park's future at Expo Square, and their terms of agreement.
Item: Allowing Bell's to pursue the investment of the new roller coaster attraction.
Item: Allowing Bell's to install new modern rides.
Item: County District Court approving the construction of the new roller coaster at Bell's.
One would believe that the Expo attornies are sweating and hoping that Bell's does not file a tort in County Court against the Expo and Fair Board for commiting unconscionable actions against him. Would be interesting to see the findings of a jury regarding such a trial when all the memos, emails and other inside information were revealed.
As reported, Bell's was paying much more for rent at the Expo than all the other renters listed in that report. I also read a Tulsa World story regarding the Talons and the Arena Football team that discussed the agreement at the venue and with the City of a guaranteed payment based on the sales of concessions. So there seem to be behind the scene deals made to retain sports teams and organizations that rent the public buildings here.
A tenant renting office space, or a sports team that rents an arena that can move out in a few days time is not the same as a long term business such as a 56 year old Amusement Park with permanent structures and semi-permanent buildings, infrastructure and power supply. Again before I submitted that an engineering firm should of been consulted with prior to setting any type of deadline for the removal of all the equipment and structures at Bell's.
Hurry up! Hurry up and create additional problems, mistakes and perhaps God forbid a fatality trying to get in a hurry to move those heavy high altitude structures. Too much overtime can and typically does result in work related accidents.
Let's all sit back and observe our government forcing a family business to handle a monumental task in a set time frame, while we allow our allies/enemies in Iraq additional time to continue fumbling around allowing the murder and loss of life there. Good grief, what has this country come to?
Next thing you know the vacant Bell's location may be used for a parking and pick up zone for day labor of illegal aliens, or to even house Illegal Aliens awaiting to pay their fines during their Amnesty time period.
Most Cities that have a clue subsidize their Attraction businesses to help benefit the tourist dollars that are associated with events that attract dollars from outside the area.
Tulsa seems to always be just the opposite and gets into the business of building and maintaining venues. In Topeka, Kansas they have a clue and funded the racetrack there instead of building a competitive one and attempting to operate it as a stand alone deal.
The buzz at the County office downtown is that the City has decided to run the Expo. Many County officials have washed their hands of the daily operations. Word has it to watch for some major announcements regarding large long term events that have been held at the Expo that are making plans to leave Tulsa for other cities that are courting them and investing large amounts of money to build facilities for their events. Sounds as if Bell's is not the only business operating at the Expo that is packing up and moving on.
quote:
Originally posted by LilMikey
Ah yes, the corrupt wheels of Tulsa county politics is alive and well, and are freely spinning.
Sheesh, it's just as if Bob Dick never retired. [8)]
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
Most Cities that have a clue subsidize their Attraction businesses to help benefit the tourist dollars that are associated with events that attract dollars from outside the area.
Bell's was becoming an UNattractive business. I don't discount the power it had to draw business via a young'n tuggin on dads pant leg. Sure is easy to drop the kids off at Bell's and spend the afternoon at the boat show, but thats no excuse for supporting a faultering business.
Have they not been building/updating the facilities to accommodate the horse shows??
Give him the 200 grand and tell him to put the damn thing back together and cut his losses.
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
As reported, Bell's was paying much more for rent at the Expo than all the other renters listed in that report.
Most Cities that have a clue subsidize their Attraction businesses to help benefit the tourist dollars that are associated with events that attract dollars from outside the area.
Tulsa seems to always be just the opposite and gets into the business of building and maintaining venues. In Topeka, Kansas they have a clue and funded the racetrack there instead of building a competetive one and attempting to operate it as a stand alone deal.
The buzz at the County office downtown is to watch for some major announcements regarding large long term events that have been held at the Expo that are leaving Tulsa for other cities that are courting them and investing laege amounts of money to build facilities for their events. Sounds as if Bell's is not the only business operating at the Expo that is packing up and moving on.
Topeka's racetrack, Tulsa's Bell's. Apples/oranges.
I bet the fair does the same reciepts w/o Bell's as it did before. If they don't they will realize they effed up. All it should do is create more congestion on the mid-way unless they are going to let Murphy park his rides up there.
Secondly, Bell's didn't have a reach much beyond the metro area and ostensibly, they were not collecting sales tax for the county. It wasn't an amusement destination like Disney or even Six Flags which will generate tourism dollars in surrounding hotels and restaurants.
Personally, I think they could have left Bell's alone and worked out a little better profit-sharing lease with provisions for re-investment in the park.
I did find it ironic that Clark Brewster was quoted in the Whirled this morning saying it was the right thing to give them the money (loose paraphrase) considering he's been their nemesis going back to when he represented the family of the kid who was killed on the Wildcat.