The more I read about streetcars in other cities, the more I like about them. They would complement and possibly jumpstart many of downtown's proposed projects. When I think about OKC's bricktown, I notice that one of the great things about it is the canal system, which provides pedestrian-type access to the whole area.
Streetcars could serve the same purpose, without the need for a canal. Streetcar lines are relatively inexpensive to install, provide great connectivity between areas such as the Blue Dome and Brady districts, limit the demand for a parking lot in front of every downtown building, and provide a nostalgiac tourist attraction. A lot of people who would normally never set foot on a city bus would be the first in line to hop on a streetcar.
Some examples:
Little Rock (//%22http://www.lightrailnow.org/news/n_lr_001.htm%22).
Dallas (//%22http://www.mata.org/%22).
It would be nice to have a street car system now. I understand this afternoon the WHOLESALE spot price for gasoline at the Tulsa Group III point of delivery hit $2.79/gallon.
I work on the Streetcar Corridor project here in Charlotte. The interest in Streetcars has jumped tremendously in the past five years, causing competition for FTA dollars to also jump.
While vintage streetcars remain very popular, don't ignore the possibilities with modern streetcars. The project in Portland has been very successful (http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/), as it provides some better efficiencies with more ADA-friendly aspects.
While light rail for Tulsa will likely never see the light of day, I must admit that commuter rail and streetcar would be very good alternatives for "rail" transit in Tulsa's future.
Tulsa needs a transportation SYSTEM. Not just one solution. The commuter rail would make sense to go to downtown from BA and maybe to the airport (in addition to passengers, there are more workers at the Tulsa Airport). More high profile bus system or better advertising (show the routes and times at the stops for instance). And other novelties like trolley services. Together, not owning a car may be an option - with the odd taxi ride to fill the gaps.
Another interesting think "the Oil Capital of the World" could do is tap a local company Syntroleum to develop an alternative fuel vehicle. OR simpler than that, ONG has great technology for natural gas vehicles AND fueling nodes downtown.
It could be nice to be ahead of the curve.
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causing competition for FTA dollars to also jump.
The current FTA administration in Washington has emphasized bus rapid transit over rail for the "small starts" program.
But with the the energy situation and the change in administrations coming, maybe something different will happen. Some of the proposed energy bills already have big funding jumps for transit and high speed rail in them.
Agreed there is no one size fits all technology.
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The current FTA administration in Washington has emphasized bus rapid transit over rail for the "small starts" program.
Not so sure that is true... I Houston, they have installed BRT in favor of Light Rail (for now...)
But Light Rail has been favored in cities to numerous to mention. Streetcars are another story with Small Starts, however the rules for that program are being tweaked to be more favorable streetcar.
Streetcars in/around downtown should be pursued. And I don't think it should be promoted just as an alternative to the automobile. The streetcar route should connect downtown with other nodes such as Brookside, Cherry St., Utica Sq, TU, the Pearl District, possibly run up the north side and near west/northwest side of the city.
The lines could be utilized as economic development tools. The City could proactively development alternative land use standards along the corridor to promote a more dense development pattern which would not only create an immediate market for the lines but would also enable the creation of interesting places along the corridor. Imagine a very walkable corridor between Brookside and Cherry St., wide sidewalks alot of interaction with the adjoining built environment, promenade like. Most of us have walked that far in other cities, could be very pleasant.
Anyway, the City bites the bullet and creates the streetcar system and then promotes the hell out of development along the line. And if B-side and Mapleridge protest it going through their hoods F em' and take it to TU and develop the hell out of that corridor...actually the line should run through M-ridge just keep the pleasant residential pattern (a nice break in the intensity) I would put my life savings on the fact that prop. values in that hood and others adjoing would skyrocket!
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Originally posted by OurTulsa
Streetcars in/around downtown should be pursued. And I don't think it should be promoted just as an alternative to the automobile. The streetcar route should connect downtown with other nodes such as Brookside, Cherry St., Utica Sq, TU, the Pearl District, possibly run up the north side and near west/northwest side of the city.
The lines could be utilized as economic development tools. The City could proactively development alternative land use standards along the corridor to promote a more dense development pattern which would not only create an immediate market for the lines but would also enable the creation of interesting places along the corridor. Imagine a very walkable corridor between Brookside and Cherry St., wide sidewalks alot of interaction with the adjoining built environment, promenade like. Most of us have walked that far in other cities, could be very pleasant.
Anyway, the City bites the bullet and creates the streetcar system and then promotes the hell out of development along the line. And if B-side and Mapleridge protest it going through their hoods F em' and take it to TU and develop the hell out of that corridor...actually the line should run through M-ridge just keep the pleasant residential pattern (a nice break in the intensity) I would put my life savings on the fact that prop. values in that hood and others adjoing would skyrocket!
Amen!!
I like this route but would be interested in hearing your opinions:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/tulsa.jpg)
Northbound from 18th on Boston to 3rd, east along 3rd to Elgin, north on Elgin to Brady, west on Brady to Boulder, southbound along Boulder to 18th, 18th east to Boston. Hits SoBo, Uptown, TCC, CBD, Blue Dome, Ballpark, Brady, 3 blocks from OSU-Tulsa, and 2 blocks east of the BOK Center/Convention Center.
Quote from: SXSW on March 18, 2009, 11:39:42 AM
I like this route but would be interested in hearing your opinions:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/tulsa.jpg)
Northbound from 18th on Boston to 3rd, east along 3rd to Elgin, north on Elgin to Brady, west on Brady to Boulder, southbound along Boulder to 18th, 18th east to Boston. Hits SoBo, Uptown, TCC, CBD, Blue Dome, Ballpark, Brady, 3 blocks from OSU-Tulsa, and 2 blocks east of the BOK Center/Convention Center.
That would be nice. I'd like to see something (say) out 6th street or 11th street to Delaware or Harvard and back to Bostonish on 15th. That would cover both TU and Cherry street. If you wanted to make the route more convoluted, you could route it to 21st and Utica an exercise left to the reader) to get Utica Square and thence up Utica to 15th thence west on 15th to Boston.
With proposed commuter rail routes: 'red' line southbound to Jenks/Bixby and northbound to the airport/Owasso and 'blue' line southbound to Broken Arrow. Main station for commuter rail/Amtrak at Boulder with another commuter rail station at Elgin to connect to streetcar routes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/tulsa2-1.jpg)
In this scenario would it be wise to move the bus depot to create an intermodal transit center? The current bus depot would be 2-3 blocks from either a commuter rail station or streetcar stop on Boulder, about the same distance to the arena. If streetcars didn't run right next to the arena/convention center there would have to be plenty of development along 3rd between them and Boulder...
Quote from: SXSW on March 18, 2009, 11:39:42 AM
I like this route but would be interested in hearing your opinions:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/tulsa.jpg)
Northbound from 18th on Boston to 3rd, east along 3rd to Elgin, north on Elgin to Brady, west on Brady to Boulder, southbound along Boulder to 18th, 18th east to Boston. Hits SoBo, Uptown, TCC, CBD, Blue Dome, Ballpark, Brady, 3 blocks from OSU-Tulsa, and 2 blocks east of the BOK Center/Convention Center.
Jack Crowley's Transportation plan has a streetcar travelling Boulder, from Brady Heights (where OU student housing is being considered) all the way south to Riverside. I believe this is one of the "downtown connector" projects. I've walked from my office in the middle of the CBD down to 23rd & Riverside and back and a streetcar would be nice. While downtown is nice and riverside is nice. That is a fairly steep grade in between through a lot of asphalt and the streetcar would really benefit Brady Heights/OSU, CBD, SoBo, and Riverside.
Quote from: sgrizzle on March 18, 2009, 03:28:43 PM
That is a fairly steep grade in between through a lot of asphalt and the streetcar would really benefit Brady Heights/OSU, CBD, SoBo, and Riverside.
It's easy to forget how hilly this town is when you're in a car.
Here are a couple links to what other cities are doing around the USA regarding streetcars/trolleys.
U.S. Streetcar Systems
http://www.railwaypreservation.com/vintagetrolley/vintagetrolley.htm
Heritage Streetcar / Trolley / Tramway Systems
http://www.lightrailnow.org/facts/fa_heritage.htm
If you are interested, they will provide a few hours entertainment.
Quote from: SXSW on March 18, 2009, 03:21:22 PM
With proposed commuter rail routes: 'red' line southbound to Jenks/Bixby and northbound to the airport/Owasso and 'blue' line southbound to Broken Arrow. Main station for commuter rail/Amtrak at Boulder with another commuter rail station at Elgin to connect to streetcar routes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/tulsa2-1.jpg)
In this scenario would it be wise to move the bus depot to create an intermodal transit center? The current bus depot would be 2-3 blocks from either a commuter rail station or streetcar stop on Boulder, about the same distance to the arena. If streetcars didn't run right next to the arena/convention center there would have to be plenty of development along 3rd between them and Boulder...
I've been thinking about this plan recently and while it would be more difficult (and expensive) it would be better for connecting the commuter lines inside the CBD. So instead of the red and blue lines using the existing freight rails between 1st and Archer they could instead run down the streets like they do in Dallas, Charlotte, Denver, Portland, etc. In this scenario the tracks leave the existing rail corridor after they cross the river traveling east on 3rd before splitting at Frisco for the eastbound trains to keep running down 3rd while th westbound trains run down 4th before joining back up with the existing rail corridor just east of 75. That way you have commuter trains and streetcars running through the heart of downtown and the existing bus depot on Denver would be served by both the eastbound and westbound lines.