As much as I hate to say it, the Tulsa Scottish Rite Building is up for sale. Yet an additional landmark of Tulsa is for sale to the highest bidder. I fear that it will be turned into another fanatic church or worse, bulldozed for another strip mall.
(http://www.law.utulsa.edu/Unused/gotu/image1.jpg)
(http://www.law.utulsa.edu/Unused/gotu/image2.jpg)
(http://www.law.utulsa.edu/Unused/gotu/image3.jpg)
(http://www.law.utulsa.edu/Unused/gotu/image4.jpg)
(http://www.law.utulsa.edu/Unused/gotu/image5.jpg)
2.9 million, anyone have any ideas?
I think it will make great offices for TulsaNow.
Why is it for sale?
Looks like another great place for a energy/science museum. I still prefer the diamond building, though.
I heard that building was supposed to be one of the nicest Masonic buildings in the nation. I wonder if they're building a new one.
I didn't see where the altar to satan was in those floorplans...
Oh ha ha ha sgrizzle. I was thinking the same thing on a museum or energy center as it would make a great multi-use space. Lots of rooms, and areas for galleries. And a great big face for those passing from the north to the south heading for OKC to see whatever museum/event center it is and that Tulsa is not a joke.
quote:
Originally posted by sportyart
Oh ha ha ha sgrizzle. I was thinking the same thing on a museum or energy center as it would make a great multi-use space. Lots of rooms, and areas for galleries. And a great big face for those passing from the north to the south heading for OKC to see whatever museum/event center it is and that Tulsa is not a joke.
I see they do have the requisite Mech storage room. I may buy this building as I am running out of space for my Mechs. I see they are kind of lacking for conventional weapons storage though, might be able to convert the dressing room into the armory. Is the two headed bird laser on the front of the building still functional?
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by sportyart
Oh ha ha ha sgrizzle. I was thinking the same thing on a museum or energy center as it would make a great multi-use space. Lots of rooms, and areas for galleries. And a great big face for those passing from the north to the south heading for OKC to see whatever museum/event center it is and that Tulsa is not a joke.
I see they do have the requisite Mech storage room. I may buy this building as I am running out of space for my Mechs. I see they are kind of lacking for conventional weapons storage though, might be able to convert the dressing room into the armory. Is the two headed bird laser on the front of the building still functional?
See I didn't even notice the mech storage. The roof in my garage makes using my house tough.
Keep in mind this building also now has a stoplight on sheridan servicing it. That building front would make a great pkace to advertise any business, although getting it approved might be an issue.
Membership to Masonic organizations is in decline.
This comes from a reference on masons from the Elemental Encyclopedia of Secret Societies (Barnes & Noble) written by 32nd degree mason John Michael Greer.
Perhaps this is why the building is for sale?
What comes from a reference...?
quote:
Originally posted by South_Tulsan
Membership to Masonic organizations is in decline.
This comes from a reference on masons from the Elemental Encyclopedia of Secret Societies (Barnes & Noble) written by 32nd degree mason John Michael Greer.
Perhaps this is why the building is for sale?
Masonic membership is on the decline, chiefly through attrition. The Scottish Rite is an appendent body to the "Blue" or Masonic Lodge. The highest degree in Masonary is Master Mason or the 3rd degree. One must be a Master Mason in order to join the Scottish Rite but that is the extent of the relationship between the two. They do not share funds, except through private donation and the sale of this building in no way effects the members of the Blue Lodge.
The declining membership could be the reason for the sale as most members of the Scottish Rite are older in years as are members of the Blue Lodge although not to the same degree. Since Blue Lodge membership is required the fact that Blue lodge membership is declining could be the reason new membership in the Scottish Rite is declining.
For the purpose of clarity, The Masonic Lodge is not a secret society as was mentioned above. Lodges are held in public buildings with their name and "logo", the Square and Compass, are always on pubic display. Most anything you want to know about the lodge is available in print as well as by asking a member. It is however, a fraternity. As in most fraternity some things are kept secret, if you will. This is not uncommon at all. There is nothing about the order that prevents a man from practicing his religion or politics as he sees fit. The only requirement for membership in the Blue Lodge is a belief in God, regardless of the religion. Religion of any kind is never practiced in lodge.
I doubt that The Scottish Rite in Tulsa is going away. I am a member and would have heard the news if it were, even though I live in Memphis now. I do not attend regularly anymore because of that reason. In the past the up keep of the building and it being necessary for it to comply with certian building codes has made the cost of doing so very high. This is money best spent on the Rites chief charity of helping children with learning disabilities. Perhaps they will move to a newer location in Tulsa.
Just thought I would clarify a few things.
quote:
Originally posted by RLitterell
quote:
Originally posted by South_Tulsan
Membership to Masonic organizations is in decline.
This comes from a reference on masons from the Elemental Encyclopedia of Secret Societies (Barnes & Noble) written by 32nd degree mason John Michael Greer.
Perhaps this is why the building is for sale?
Masonic membership is on the decline, chiefly through attrition. The Scottish Rite is an appendent body to the "Blue" or Masonic Lodge. The highest degree in Masonary is Master Mason or the 3rd degree. One must be a Master Mason in order to join the Scottish Rite but that is the extent of the relationship between the two. They do not share funds, except through private donation and the sale of this building in no way effects the members of the Blue Lodge.
The declining membership could be the reason for the sale as most members of the Scottish Rite are older in years as are members of the Blue Lodge although not to the same degree. Since Blue Lodge membership is required the fact that Blue lodge membership is declining could be the reason new membership in the Scottish Rite is declining.
For the purpose of clarity, The Masonic Lodge is not a secret society as was mentioned above. Lodges are held in public buildings with their name and "logo", the Square and Compass, are always on pubic display. Most anything you want to know about the lodge is available in print as well as by asking a member. It is however, a fraternity. As in most fraternity some things are kept secret, if you will. This is not uncommon at all. There is nothing about the order that prevents a man from practicing his religion or politics as he sees fit. The only requirement for membership in the Blue Lodge is a belief in God, regardless of the religion. Religion of any kind is never practiced in lodge.
I doubt that The Scottish Rite in Tulsa is going away. I am a member and would have heard the news if it were, even though I live in Memphis now. I do not attend regularly anymore because of that reason. In the past the up keep of the building and it being necessary for it to comply with certian building codes has made the cost of doing so very high. This is money best spent on the Rites chief charity of helping children with learning disabilities. Perhaps they will move to a newer location in Tulsa.
Just thought I would clarify a few things.
i hear they are going to buy OTC because it has enough fiber to communicate to the rest of the mechs around the country.
A belief in God in NOT a requirement. You take your ceremonial oaths and pledge under the name of your choice of higher authority, whether to God/Allah/YHWH/Jehovah, Lucifer, Buddha, or a power yielding stone if you so choose. So, more like belief in a god, would be more appropriate. Freemasonry claims it DOES respect the religious beliefs of members but in no way promotes theology or one particular deity above another.
Third Degree (Master Mason) is NOT the highest degree in FreeMasonry. While it is the pinnacle degree attainable in the Symbolic order of Degrees, it is nowhere near the highest. The beginnings of this Order recorded two/three degrees but as it evolved from its infant stages through history it expanded to now hold thirty two degrees and the rarely bestowed honor of selection to the thirty-third.
The structure is as follows:
Symbolic Degrees
1 Entered Apprentice
2 Fellow Craft
3 Master Mason
Ineffible Degrees
4 Secret Master
5 Perfect Master
6 Intimate Secretary
7 Provost and Judge
8 Intendant of the Building
9 Master Elect of Nine
10 Elect of Fifteen
11 Sublime Master Elected
12 Grand Master Architect
13 Master of the Ninth Arch
14 Grand Elect Mason
Historical Degrees
15 Knight of the East, or Sword
16 Prince of Jerusalem
Philosophical Degrees
17 Knight of the East and West
18 Knight of the Rose Croix of H.R.D.M.
Traditional and Chivalric Degrees
19 Grand Pontiff
20 Master ad Vitam
21 Patriarch Noachite
22 Prince of Libanus
23 Chief of the Tabernacle
24 Prince of The Tabernacle
25 Knight of the Brazen Serpent
26 Prince of Mercy
27 Commander of the Temple
28 Knight of the Sun
29 Knight of St. Andrew
30 Grand Elect Knight Kadosh
31 Grand Inspector Inquisitor Commander
32 Sublime Prince of The Royal Secret
The highest attainable degree in this society would be the 33rd:
33 Sovereign Grand Inspector General
quote:
Originally posted by Tulsa Twister
A belief in God in NOT a requirement. You take your ceremonial oaths and pledge under the name of your choice of higher authority, whether to God/Allah/YHWH/Jehovah, Lucifer, Buddha, or a power yielding stone if you so choose. So, more like belief in a god, would be more appropriate. Freemasonry claims it DOES respect the religious beliefs of members but in no way promotes theology or one particular deity above another.
Third Degree (Master Mason) is NOT the highest degree in FreeMasonry. While it is the pinnacle degree attainable in the Symbolic order of Degrees, it is nowhere near the highest. The beginnings of this Order recorded two/three degrees but as it evolved from its infant stages through history it expanded to now hold thirty two degrees and the rarely bestowed honor of selection to the thirty-third.
The structure is as follows:
Symbolic Degrees
1 Entered Apprentice
2 Fellow Craft
3 Master Mason
Ineffible Degrees
4 Secret Master
5 Perfect Master
6 Intimate Secretary
7 Provost and Judge
8 Intendant of the Building
9 Master Elect of Nine
10 Elect of Fifteen
11 Sublime Master Elected
12 Grand Master Architect
13 Master of the Ninth Arch
14 Grand Elect Mason
Historical Degrees
15 Knight of the East, or Sword
16 Prince of Jerusalem
Philosophical Degrees
17 Knight of the East and West
18 Knight of the Rose Croix of H.R.D.M.
Traditional and Chivalric Degrees
19 Grand Pontiff
20 Master ad Vitam
21 Patriarch Noachite
22 Prince of Libanus
23 Chief of the Tabernacle
24 Prince of The Tabernacle
25 Knight of the Brazen Serpent
26 Prince of Mercy
27 Commander of the Temple
28 Knight of the Sun
29 Knight of St. Andrew
30 Grand Elect Knight Kadosh
31 Grand Inspector Inquisitor Commander
32 Sublime Prince of The Royal Secret
The highest attainable degree in this society would be the 33rd:
33 Sovereign Grand Inspector General
I will not debate the issue with you, It would have been more correct for me to say that a belief in a supreme being. There are actually 4 basic requirements for membership. I would encourage you to ask for a Petition for Degrees and read the requirements for membership.
I like #6
Hmm. That might explain why my wife's company is moving their Xmas party next year to the Renaissance. She's on their committees for their summer picnic and "winter ball." She had just told me Monday they were moving it and thought it had something to do with how "bland" the place is.
They had it at the TSR the last couple of years because they have a large banquet room and I'm guessing the room rent was a bargain.
So is #34 Lucifer?
Decline through attrition means there are fewer new recruits. Why is that? I know nothing about Freemasonry other than what is commonly published. I've never been approached about it and to my knowledge no one in my circle of friends is a Freemason.
How do they go about attracting new memebers? Do people show up on the doorstep and say they want to become one, or are they "sponsored" by an existing Freemason?
Just curious how it all works.
Their main way of bringing people in is at a younger ago through demolay (boys) and rainbow (girls) which is still pretty popular.
It's also popular amongst people who make more than us. I was approached as a kid to come to a demolay meeting (first time I heard "Lords of Acid" and saw a pentagram) but never since then.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Decline through attrition means there are fewer new recruits. Why is that? I know nothing about Freemasonry other than what is commonly published. I've never been approached about it and to my knowledge no one in my circle of friends is a Freemason.
How do they go about attracting new memebers? Do people show up on the doorstep and say they want to become one, or are they "sponsored" by an existing Freemason?
Just curious how it all works.
How it all works is this. No one will ever ask you to join the lodge, we do not recruit. If anyone is interested in joining and does not know a Mason then call a local lodge, they are listed in the phone book. Anyone there will be more than happy to answer any questions you might have. We are a fraternity. We are not satan worshipers or witches etc....
The only way to join is to ask. If you ask you will be given a petition for degrees and assisted through the process. We do a lot of charity work but that is not our mission. We are a brotherhood of men who desire to be better men through helping each other and to be better citizens. There is much more to it but to leangthy to go into here.
If you are interested PM me and I will be happy to put you in touch with a local lodge in Tulsa. I will also be happy to answer any questions you have via telephone.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Their main way of bringing people in is at a younger ago through demolay (boys) and rainbow (girls) which is still pretty popular.
It's also popular amongst people who make more than us. I was approached as a kid to come to a demolay meeting (first time I heard "Lords of Acid" and saw a pentagram) but never since then.
pancakes?
I'll stick to looking at "pornography" in the back of UT
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Their main way of bringing people in is at a younger ago through demolay (boys) and rainbow (girls) which is still pretty popular.
It's also popular amongst people who make more than us. I was approached as a kid to come to a demolay meeting (first time I heard "Lords of Acid" and saw a pentagram) but never since then.
That is not a true statement. Both are appendent bodies of the lodge for children. Masonary is a fraternity for men so women, ie rainbow girls would not be allowed to join the Masonic lodge. Very few young men in Demolay go on to become Masons.
quote:
Originally posted by RLitterell
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Their main way of bringing people in is at a younger ago through demolay (boys) and rainbow (girls) which is still pretty popular.
It's also popular amongst people who make more than us. I was approached as a kid to come to a demolay meeting (first time I heard "Lords of Acid" and saw a pentagram) but never since then.
That is not a true statement. Both are appendent bodies of the lodge for children. Masonary is a fraternity for men so women, ie rainbow girls would not be allowed to join the Masonic lodge. Very few young men in Demolay go on to become Masons.
Not every high school student goes to college, doesn't mean that isn't the point.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by RLitterell
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Their main way of bringing people in is at a younger ago through demolay (boys) and rainbow (girls) which is still pretty popular.
It's also popular amongst people who make more than us. I was approached as a kid to come to a demolay meeting (first time I heard "Lords of Acid" and saw a pentagram) but never since then.
That is not a true statement. Both are appendent bodies of the lodge for children. Masonary is a fraternity for men so women, ie rainbow girls would not be allowed to join the Masonic lodge. Very few young men in Demolay go on to become Masons.
Not every high school student goes to college, doesn't mean that isn't the point.
Maybe I mis-understood your point. You said "Their main way of bringing people in is at a younger ago through demolay (boys) and rainbow (girls)..." I said that wasn't a true statement and isn't. Rainbow is a girls program so Masonary doesn't draw from the Rainbows. I know it to be true that a very small percentage of Demolay boys go on to join the fraternity of Masonary. So it isn't true that bringing them in from those groups their main way of increasing membership. Also in a previous post I explained that Masonary does not recruit, you must ask a Mason in order to join so on that count your statement isn't correct as well. We do not recruit members.
I like Grand Poobah like Mr C. on Happy Days. The Fez hat is a lady killer.
I'd hate to see the building torn down and whatever go up there. I really like the parking lot as it has a great view in the evenings.
From today's "Tulsa Business Journal"
Masonic Landmark Purchased for $2.2 Million
Tulsa Business Staff
8/24/2007
Jameson Direct Inc. has purchased the Tulsa Scottish Rite property at 6355 East Skelly Dr. for $2.2 million. This Tulsa landmark was built in 1970 for the Tulsa Scottish Rite, with the auditorium added in 1972, and offers auditorium seating for over 600, a formal dining area with commercial kitchen, and has been the site of many Masonic events, weddings, and receptions over the past 37 years.
The building contains approximately 45,000 useable SF and rests on 7.784 acres of land. The Scottish Rite plans to relocate to another local facility.
Local businessman James R. Moore is principal in the buyer and has not announced final plans for the facility.
Tulsa broker Dave Hall with Imperial Properties handled the sale for the Scottish Rite and Kate Thorp with McGraw Realtors represented the buyer.
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=134616
Scottish Rite Auction
KOTV - 8/24/2007 4:22 PM - Updated 8/24/2007 4:22 PM
There's a rare chance to do some shopping at a Tulsa landmark. The Tulsa Scottish Rite building at 6355 East Skelly Drive has been sold, and the owners are cleaning house with an auction this weekend.
"We have cleaned the attic out, we have cleaned the basement out, we have found closets I didn't even know we had," said Keith Madden with the Tulsa Scottish Rite. "This is what you see behind us, those items that are not going to be practical for us to move to our new facility.
The Scottish Rite's new location will be near 51st & Mingo.
Furniture, desks, and cooking equipment are on the auction block. The sale starts at 10 a.m., Saturday, August 25th.
Some of you may already have knowledge of this.... I was surprised to find out just what "group" (//%22http://www.faithchannel.com/home.aspx%22)
was setting up operations at the old Scottish Rite building...!
here are a few short quotes from the website
"Building a TV Network is no small undertaking. But the potential impact made it an easy decision for one Tulsa-based team of media-savy Entrepreneurs."
"Faith Channel is the result of a long time vision coming to reality. The founders of Faith Channel realize that millions of people will not attend a traditional church service or watch Christian Television today. As a result, they have set out to build a network on strong biblical teaching that is delivered through unique and relevant methods. A varied program schedule of emerging church teachers, talk shows, music videos, feature length films and reality / documentary programs is being built to carry out the vision of Faith Channel.
Faith Channel has an aggressive expansion program to air programming around the globe in a short time frame. Even though the method may be different, Faith Channel is committed to share the life-changing message of faith in Jesus Christ to all who will hear."
From everything I have been told... The Scottish Rite building will be the "phone bank" portion of the project...
"To man the phone lines to handle the donations."
This is something I did not expect in that area...
I guess I am just naive about many things that go on in Tulsa...
"the group's' website (//%22http://www.faithchannel.com/home.aspx%22)
So does that mean they are expanding into the U.S. because that channel was in Europe.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
So does that mean they are expanding into the U.S. because that channel was in Europe.
I think it is the opposite... From what I have been told they are a (start up?) religious program..
I am just curious if this may be the individuals "in negotiations" with ORU regarding their TV operations.?
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
So does that mean they are expanding into the U.S. because that channel was in Europe.
I think it is the opposite... From what I have been told they are a (start up?) religious program..
I am just curious if this may be the individuals "in negotiations" with ORU regarding their TV operations.?
Would make a good fit, although it looks like this channel has higher production values and more lively programming than what ORU puts out currently (only time I've seen their channel they were doing "cooking with jesus" or something like that.)
Not to mention, the scottish rite building is the best free billboard in Tulsa.
Great, more religious fundamentalism. That's the kind of thing that will keep most of my peers from ever moving back to Tulsa.
^Disagree. Religious fundamentalists don't bother me when I'm socializing at a Brookside establishment or jogging on the river. Any young person making a decision based on geographic proximity of conservative Christians has got issues that Tulsa can't begin to address.
Floyd, you'd be surprised how many people disregard the region on that very basis. Perception is not always reality, in this instance the perception based on reports about ORU, rejecting the Koran, creationist exhibits at the zoo... is too often that all of Tulsa is a religiously fundamentalist and intolerant pit of ignorance. Clearly I know better, but you'd be surprised at how many people harbor such sentiments.
Likewise, how many fundamentalists think San Francisco is a bunch of gay men running around doing horrible things all day long? Stupid people abound.
Cannon Fodder, I couldn't have said it better myself. The perception of a city is what attracts people, whether it's accurate or not. The problem with Tulsa is that the perceived negative attributes of the city are usually the only things making headlines.
James Moore is also the one that bought Carlton Pierce building and owns a direct mail business that collects donations for all the preachers who are in the news for cheating all the time. I think you are correct in the ORU thinking, but a step further is that Richard Roberts wont bail out, James Moore will just hold it for him and he will still be calling the shots, I have knowledge of a lot of this going on with the preachers in this town and others.