While I understand that people should be able to do what they want with what they bought, but should "nothing" be an option?
The camerlot hotel is the most recent example of an eyesore that just sits around. A woman in my neighborhood keeps a mortgaged house "in case she wants to move back" although supposedly she hasn't seen it in about 12 years.
Is there a way to deal with these eyesores?
The Mayor's Office for Neighborhoods is usually a good place to start.
The Mayo's action line said that since the building seems externally sound (it is largely rock) then nothing can be done about the insides since an inspector can't see them.
Gives termites and squirrels a good place to live..
Once people start breaking in and or windows are missing it becomes a safety issue and you can work on getting it condemned. If it is just empty, structurally sound, and looks OK from the outside it is none of the cities concern. I had the same issue on one side of me (remedied by a brand new home) and HAVE the same issue on the other (come on act of god, blow that thing down!).
You could always buy it...
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
While I understand that people should be able to do what they want with what they bought, but should "nothing" be an option?
The camerlot hotel is the most recent example of an eyesore that just sits around. A woman in my neighborhood keeps a mortgaged house "in case she wants to move back" although supposedly she hasn't seen it in about 12 years.
Is there a way to deal with these eyesores?
I used to live in the area SW of 21st and Harvard. Neat little neighborhood. We had three houses in the area that were dilapidated eyesores. The very active neighborhood association, along with concerned neighbors basically started a campaign to get them condemened, and it worked. I called neighborhood enforcement at least 5-6 times myself on the one nearest to me. It had broken out windows and a yard that was never mown. Finally got the place condemned. OF course, it never got torn down, the owner suddenly came up with some cash to fix the roof, paint it, etc. and started renting it out. The other two were owned by the same person and she actually died during all the condemnation process, so they were eventually sold and remodeled anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Once people start breaking in and or windows are missing it becomes a safety issue and you can work on getting it condemned. If it is just empty, structurally sound, and looks OK from the outside it is none of the cities concern. I had the same issue on one side of me (remedied by a brand new home) and HAVE the same issue on the other (come on act of god, blow that thing down!).
You could always buy it...
What about the Tulsa club building? The guy won't sell it and people want to buy it and turn it into apartments. The state that building is in is an absolute scandal.
I wish there was a way the city could seize the building then auction it, then give him the money minus costs. If that building burns to the ground or becomes unusable due to it have squatters, he deserves to be shot.
Sorry my rant.
I hear ya Si, but if we allow the city to take property because they think they can do better with it; its a short road to taking my house because someone richer wants to move in. Property rights are the foundation of our society.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I hear ya Si, but if we allow the city to take property because they think they can do better with it; its a short road to taking my house because someone richer wants to move in. Property rights are the foundation of our society.
I would disagree, I think its fairly long road. The building is empty, leaking, not properly secured and a Goff creation. The owner is turning down very good offers on the property. I think people have a responsibility for property, its not just like buying a carpet and not looking after it, a prominent building is for all to see. It ruins that street, makes the area feel unsafe and the fact is occupied is a public danger. If the heating is off in the building, which I'm guessing seeing as it leaks come winter people will be lighting fires in it.
As a society we continually compromise with the powers we give up. We give the police powers to protect us recognising that taken too far we will end up in a police state. In the same way, while I recognise that you could take property preservation to the extreme, but it is unlikely. You can't just say we can't do anything, because, gee wiz, who knows what could happen down the road. Any policy can be taken to some illogical extreme, but we don't stop producing laws.
Si, have you relocated here yet? You seem to have a pretty good idea of what's happening w/ property here from 4,000 or so miles away. [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Si, have you relocated here yet? You seem to have a pretty good idea of what's happening w/ property here from 4,000 or so miles away. [;)]
Not yet. I was over in Tulsa a few weeks back though. (and I have my sources). I won't be over until I've finished my masters and paid back my student debt. (I don't fancy earning dollars and repaying pounds at the moment).
"I think people have a responsibility for property."
Sure, but it's theirs to ignore be it throw rug or a Goff.
"...a prominent building is for all to see. "
And in a happy World people would see a nice looking prominent joint owed by a prominent person. Reality say's it's good to blink on occassion.
"It ruins that street, makes the area feel unsafe..."
Na, it makes the lot it sits on an eyesore compared to the rest of the block, but if it only takes one unlived in place to create a feeling of "danger" then I'd start looking at the person instead of the little house.
2cents, jdb
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
"It ruins that street, makes the area feel unsafe..."
Na, it makes the lot it sits on an eyesore compared to the rest of the block, but if it only takes one unlived in place to create a feeling of "danger" then I'd start looking at the person instead of the little house.
Little house? I'm talking about the Tulsa Club building. I've never heard it referred to as a little house.
So what do you suggest, some arsewit owns a brilliant building and wilfully lets it degrade. Do we rely on their good will? They haven't shown any so far. Or should we just have a prayer meeting and hope that god intervenes?
Didn't mean the "little house" crack the way it popped off.
Prayer might be a swell idea for some people, but if there's a god he don't care - otherwise termites would have stayed on the drawing board.
Important Places need people who can pool their money. Several ways to go about it...that or the place rots.
Still some places can be brought back to life after 80 years of rot.
jdb
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
Didn't mean the "little house" crack the way it popped off.
Prayer might be a swell idea for some people, but if there's a god he don't care - otherwise termites would have stayed on the drawing board.
Important Places need people who can pool their money. Several ways to go about it...that or the place rots.
Still some places can be brought back to life after 80 years of rot.
jdb
The thing is that these people won't sell at a market rate. They want more than the building is worth. Am I right in saying the Lortons turned down good offers on the Skelly building and wanted $1m for it? $1m which is probably a minimum of three times its value. What if we had all pooled together and bought the building, would that have helped? I think it would have made things worst. You are rewarding people who essentially ransoming buildings, if the Lortons were smart (which I doubt) and had received $1m for the Skelly, they would just buy three buildings and ransom them too. People who let buildings fall into disrepair shouldn't be over compensated or rewarded. I think at the moment the lack of teeth that exists in dealing with this issue of disintegrating buildings means that people have a hard time telling if the city is ravaging them or merely blowing them off.
While I recognize that buildings can be brought back to life. I think in Tulsa with such low land values and what can be shown to be a demonstrated lack of regard to old and beautiful buildings it is unlikely that all the ruined buildings can be saved on a large scale. While some are being brought back to life, lets not forget all of those that have already been lost. And remember that the reason they are lost is not that people won't buy them, but that some of downtown is owned by Philistines.
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
Didn't mean the "little house" crack the way it popped off.
Prayer might be a swell idea for some people, but if there's a god he don't care - otherwise termites would have stayed on the drawing board.
Important Places need people who can pool their money. Several ways to go about it...that or the place rots.
Still some places can be brought back to life after 80 years of rot.
jdb
The thing is that these people won't sell at a market rate. They want more than the building is worth. Am I right in saying the Lortons turned down good offers on the Skelly building and wanted $1m for it? $1m which is probably a minimum of three times its value. What if we had all pooled together and bought the building, would that have helped? I think it would have made things worst. You are rewarding people who essentially ransoming buildings, if the Lortons were smart (which I doubt) and had received $1m for the Skelly, they would just buy three buildings and ransom them too. People who let buildings fall into disrepair shouldn't be over compensated or rewarded. I think at the moment the lack of teeth that exists in dealing with this issue of disintegrating buildings means that people have a hard time telling if the city is ravaging them or merely blowing them off.
While I recognize that buildings can be brought back to life. I think in Tulsa with such low land values and what can be shown to be a demonstrated lack of regard to old and beautiful buildings it is unlikely that all the ruined buildings can be saved on a large scale. While some are being brought back to life, lets not forget all of those that have already been lost. And remember that the reason they are lost is not that people won't buy them, but that some of downtown is owned by Philistines.
Yeah, the lortons turned down offer(s) on the skelly. They weren't interested at any price really.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
You could always buy it...
Others have tried. She wants like $120,000 for a 1800sqft home. That is slightly above market rate for homes in good condition in the area.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
You could always buy it...
Others have tried. She wants like $120,000 for a 1800sqft home. That is slightly above market rate for homes in good condition in the area.
Fire is always a risk for empty property. Who knows what could happen? [:P]
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
Fire is always a risk for empty property. Who knows what could happen? [:P]
Just for the record, I have never considered that...
I'm trying to picture where the Tulsa Club is in my mind and can't place it, could some one help me with thtis?
Suggestions from other cities of how to prevent abandoned buildings:
Albany--each building that has sat vacant for a certain period of time must register with the fire department as a vacant building. With that registration the owner is required to submit a plan for maintenance of the building during its vacancy, as well as pay a fee (based on the theory that it is a higher risk of fire). The process itself discourages owners from allowing buildings to sit empty.
Boston--tax laws rewritten that gives penalties to owners that hold on indefinitely to abandoned buildings.
Burlington--similar to Albany. Upon vacancy of 90 days, the owner must allow inspectors in to determine the continued structural integrity. Plans of maintenance must also include a timeline in which the owner will return the property to productive use.
Dallas--has the Urban Land Bank Program which aggressively seeks out tax-delinquent properties for repossession.
Willimington--also has an abandoned building registration, with fees that increase each year of vacancy, regardless of multi-ownership. Waivers to the fee are allowed on a one time basis when rehabilitation is attempted.
Many other cities simply use inspections, fines, etc.... to make it difficult to retain abandoned buildings. The problem in Tulsa is that there is no incentive to not leave a building sitting empty.
I like the above except for the fact it would likely encourage demolition in an already fairly demo-happy town.
True--it would have to be coupled with a more stringent demolition process, or a mechanism that would allow others to purchase the building. Or perhaps fees (equal or greater) for empty or surface lots.
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
Suggestions from other cities of how to prevent abandoned buildings:
Albany--each building that has sat vacant for a certain period of time must register with the fire department as a vacant building. With that registration the owner is required to submit a plan for maintenance of the building during its vacancy, as well as pay a fee (based on the theory that it is a higher risk of fire). The process itself discourages owners from allowing buildings to sit empty.
Boston--tax laws rewritten that gives penalties to owners that hold on indefinitely to abandoned buildings.
Burlington--similar to Albany. Upon vacancy of 90 days, the owner must allow inspectors in to determine the continued structural integrity. Plans of maintenance must also include a timeline in which the owner will return the property to productive use.
Dallas--has the Urban Land Bank Program which aggressively seeks out tax-delinquent properties for repossession.
Willimington--also has an abandoned building registration, with fees that increase each year of vacancy, regardless of multi-ownership. Waivers to the fee are allowed on a one time basis when rehabilitation is attempted.
Many other cities simply use inspections, fines, etc.... to make it difficult to retain abandoned buildings. The problem in Tulsa is that there is no incentive to not leave a building sitting empty.
^are any of these within the realm of possibility in Tulsa?
This, coupled with the points you make regarding a policy to discourage demolition, would be a
huge accomplishment in any effort to create "urban density"...
quote:
Originally posted by dbacks fan
I'm trying to picture where the Tulsa Club is in my mind and can't place it, could some one help me with thtis?
The Tulsa Club building is at 115 East 5th Street, the north side of 5th Street between Boston & Cincinnati (the corner of 5th & Cincinnati). Built 1927 by the architect firm of Rush, Endacott & Rush, designed by Bruce Goff. I believe there was a modernization of the exterior in the 1950s and the lower portion of the building was refaced in black glass panels.
The Tulsa Foundation for Architecture's reprint of the "Tulsa Art Deco" book has 3 pages full of vintage 1927 photographs that illustrate just how magnificent this building once was. The building was a riot of 1920s Art Deco and color. The Tulsa Chamber of Commerce originally occupied the bottom 5 floors, the the Tulsa Club had the upper 6 floors and roof garden. The Tulsa Club offered a gymnasium, Turkish bath, barber shop and dormitory rooms for members. Men's Lounge, Ladies' Lounge, meeting rooms, club rooms, private dining rooms, central dining room, and large rooftop garden terrace for dining in the summertime. Back in the day, Tulsa Club full membership was limited to men only; women were allowed only in certain areas of the Club and for dining and special functions.
Does anyone know the present condition of the interior of this building? This is one DT building that would be fun for an "urban exploration" to assess its condition and what if any of the original art deco interior is still intact. I am sure much of it has been stripped or lost to past remodeling, but it sure was an Art Deco wonder when new. The rooftop dining room was a tile terrace with modern, futuristic fixtures, and a partial ceiling paneled in pale green and orange. The elevators and chandeliers featured peacock tails in stained glass. I remember the Tulsa Club building was one of the last downtown buildings that maintained manual elevators with human elevator operators, right up to its dying day in the 1990s.
My sister held her wedding reception at the Tulsa Club right before it closed. It was really neat and I loved the elevator operator. I would think that unless it had been stripped after closing, its original charm may still remain.
quote:
Originally posted by NellieBly
My sister held her wedding reception at the Tulsa Club right before it closed. It was really neat and I loved the elevator operator. I would think that unless it had been stripped after closing, its original charm may still remain.
I hope so, I've looked at it long and hard. You can see right down on it from the Philtower and I think its slowly getting ruined. The building is definately not secured properly.
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
quote:
Originally posted by NellieBly
My sister held her wedding reception at the Tulsa Club right before it closed. It was really neat and I loved the elevator operator. I would think that unless it had been stripped after closing, its original charm may still remain.
I hope so, I've looked at it long and hard. You can see right down on it from the Philtower and I think its slowly getting ruined. The building is definately not secured properly.
The last time I was in the Tulsa Club was for a business lunch in the late 1980s. I remember the building as being quite elegant, but I don't recall the interior as being striking 1920s Deco, just quite posh. The 1927 photos I referrenced in my previous post, although in black and white, show an extravagant interior, a riot of geometric Art Deco. Some of this may remain today, hidden behind later "updates." It would be fun to explore the building and find out. It is such a shame that the building has been allowed to come to its present state. Unfortunately, I see another surface parking lot in the making.
I remember the old Cathey's furniture store ("8th to 9th on Main"), and and apartmemnt building on 8th and Main, all obviously razed to make a parking lot-and from what i saw coming back to Tulsa for a short time, there still isn't anywhere to park downtown!
I'd a friend who lived there, the Tulsa Apartments I think it was. Had a friend that lived there, and to get up to his apartment, you used one of those old-fashioned elevators you see in those old movies. The building had a recreation room with a pool table, and the flooring was like a black and white checkerboard pattern. Very retro.
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
I remember the old Cathey's furniture store ("8th to 9th on Main"), and and apartmemnt building on 8th and Main, all obviously razed to make a parking lot-and from what i saw coming back to Tulsa for a short time, there still isn't anywhere to park downtown!
I'd a friend who lived there, the Tulsa Apartments I think it was. Had a friend that lived there, and to get up to his apartment, you used one of those old-fashioned elevators you see in those old movies. The building had a recreation room with a pool table, and the flooring was like a black and white checkerboard pattern. Very retro.
I too remember the Tulsa Apartments, a 4 story red brick complex I believe with Cathey's Furniture on the ground floor. I remember the entrance to the apartments being mainly on 9th street, facing south. I also remember the Manhattan Court apartments, those were on Cincinnati I believe. Lovely old 1930s era garden apartments, single story units built around a courtyard, must have been quite posh in their day.
I recall visiting a friend (I won't name any names here) many times that lived in the penthouse apartment in the Thompson Building at 5th & Main, SW corner. The building where the old Charl-Mont restaurant was, it has since been renamed, but the building is still there. You took the elevator to the top floor (and the Thompson building at that time still had manual elevators with human operators!) and walked down a long hallway. You came to a non-descript door, looked like a janitor closet. With the proper key, the door revealed a staircase to an upper hidden floor, and at the top was a fabulous penthouse apartment with gorgeous views 360 of downtown Tulsa. I have often wondered if that apartment is still there and occupied today. Must have originally been the downtown digs of some wealthy attorney or oil baron.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
quote:
Originally posted by NellieBly
My sister held her wedding reception at the Tulsa Club right before it closed. It was really neat and I loved the elevator operator. I would think that unless it had been stripped after closing, its original charm may still remain.
I hope so, I've looked at it long and hard. You can see right down on it from the Philtower and I think its slowly getting ruined. The building is definately not secured properly.
The last time I was in the Tulsa Club was for a business lunch in the late 1980s. I remember the building as being quite elegant, but I don't recall the interior as being striking 1920s Deco, just quite posh. The 1927 photos I referrenced in my previous post, although in black and white, show an extravagant interior, a riot of geometric Art Deco. Some of this may remain today, hidden behind later "updates." It would be fun to explore the building and find out. It is such a shame that the building has been allowed to come to its present state. Unfortunately, I see another surface parking lot in the making.
There is no reason for it to be parking. Lots of people want to buy the place. The guy who owns it won't sell. Its more than a shame its in its present state, its a crime.
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
There is no reason for it to be parking. Lots of people want to buy the place. The guy who owns it won't sell. Its more than a shame its in its present state, its a crime.
I totally agree, it is a crime. Do you know who currently owns the Tulsa Club building and why they won't sell? Is is just greed and ignorance, while the building slowly deteriorates beyond hope?
Tulsa urban legend has it that the original exterior windows designed by Goff, which were a casement type that opened outward, were prone to snap off and fly away in high winds. I think this is mostly just myth, although it may have happened once or twice. Retrofitting for air-conditioning must have solved that, since the windows did not need to be opened as much after AC was installed.
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
I hope so, I've looked at it long and hard. You can see right down on it from the Philtower and I think its slowly getting ruined. The building is definately not secured properly.
Can you see any remnants of the original rooftop terrace dining area, or is this just long gone and only preserved in memory?
Restrictions on demolition would be the first best foot forward. Protect what is left. But we've seen how many fans any moritorium would have.
Incentives to rehab. or properly mothball might be next.
Facade grants, tax defer., low interest loans.
The supression rebate was a nice touch but with one little mistake there goes that.
Punitive assessments last.
A Land Bank here could become an overnight horror. Never liked that subject, personally.
Earlier I suggested pooling funds, but that also included the option of putting a roof on the place. Lien or not, if the place is important and the owner doesn't want to, or can't afford to roof it, then it falls on the "visionaries" (hate that word) to cough up some stop-gap dough.
I never looked at this place more then in passing. Pressed into that akward corner the joint always gave me the shivers.[;)]
I gave a speech on Saturday at the GoGreen green building conference where I discussed new barriers to demolition.
I proposed a demolition permit deposit that would be refunded based on what percentage of the material was reclaimed or recycled into new products.
The powerpoint presentation is on my website...
http://metrecycle.com/
It doesn't fully explain it by powerpoint alone, but I look forwarrd to bringing this topic up at upcoming comprehensive planning meetings.
I can't seem to find it on your website-is it under presentations?
I think its a great idea. Tearing down buildings should reflect true costs--cost to the city, to the environment, to our children, etc....
I understand that Councilors Turner and Martinson is looking into new means to raise city revenue. Have you considered giving a presentation to their group?
It's at the bottom of the index page. Click on Go Green Conference.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
I hope so, I've looked at it long and hard. You can see right down on it from the Philtower and I think its slowly getting ruined. The building is definately not secured properly.
Can you see any remnants of the original rooftop terrace dining area, or is this just long gone and only preserved in memory?
I don't think I saw anything left of it, although I wasn't looking for it. I hope the building can be saved.
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
I can't seem to find it on your website-is it under presentations?
I think its a great idea. Tearing down buildings should reflect true costs--cost to the city, to the environment, to our children, etc....
I understand that Councilors Turner and Martinson is looking into new means to raise city revenue. Have you considered giving a presentation to their group?
I think that idea is great. There are often some amazing building materials in old buildings. I think when the court house was demolished in Pryor or Chelsea (can't remember which one) they sold off loads of marble and materials.
I think if Councilors Turner and Martinson are interested in raising revenue the city should consider a parking tax. Taxing each parking space in the city with discounts for multi storys. That would raise revenue, encourage sustainable transport, stop demolitions and might bring some land onto the market.
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
Suggestions from other cities of how to prevent abandoned buildings:
Albany--each building that has sat vacant for a certain period of time must register with the fire department as a vacant building. With that registration the owner is required to submit a plan for maintenance of the building during its vacancy, as well as pay a fee (based on the theory that it is a higher risk of fire). The process itself discourages owners from allowing buildings to sit empty.
Boston--tax laws rewritten that gives penalties to owners that hold on indefinitely to abandoned buildings.
Burlington--similar to Albany. Upon vacancy of 90 days, the owner must allow inspectors in to determine the continued structural integrity. Plans of maintenance must also include a timeline in which the owner will return the property to productive use.
Dallas--has the Urban Land Bank Program which aggressively seeks out tax-delinquent properties for repossession.
Willimington--also has an abandoned building registration, with fees that increase each year of vacancy, regardless of multi-ownership. Waivers to the fee are allowed on a one time basis when rehabilitation is attempted.
Many other cities simply use inspections, fines, etc.... to make it difficult to retain abandoned buildings. The problem in Tulsa is that there is no incentive to not leave a building sitting empty.
I think property tax on buildings with historic status should be proportional to the upkeep/preservation of the building. Owners of historic buildings should be able to write a portion of renovation costs off their property taxes. If historic building owners allow the building to deteriorate to a certain level, they should see a fine imposed on their property tax. Deterioration should be defined as any reasonably forseeable or purposeful act done to decrease the value of the structure. Tearing the structure down would obviously decrease the value of the structure by destroying it! A regulation like this could be imposed as a type of form-based code.
If you go up into the adjacent parking structure you can peer into the Tulsa Club. The bones still seem fine however there is water damage. I'm saddened to see this building deteriorating. I cannot imagine that someone would tear that building down for a parking lot although I thought the same about the Skelly.
I certainly don't forsee a tax on parking spaces. Can you imagine Jim Norton and the cartels response to that. As there is no alternative to parking in downtown right now a tax seems impractical....ehhh maybe you could do it as some sort of special tax district and the tax goes to improving the walking environment downtown and the construction of parking garages....can't make exceptions for schools, governments, or religious institutions as they are some of our biggest contributors...the alliance against such an idea would be great.
Putting a tax on parking in our City would be a racket as WE require an excessive amount of surface parking with any new development as part of our zoning code.
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
Quote[I think property tax on buildings with historic status should be proportional to the upkeep/preservation of the building. Owners of historic buildings should be able to write a portion of renovation costs off their property taxes. If historic building owners allow the building to deteriorate to a certain level, they should see a fine imposed on their property tax. Deterioration should be defined as any reasonably forseeable or purposeful act done to decrease the value of the structure. Tearing the structure down would obviously decrease the value of the structure by destroying it! A regulation like this could be imposed as a type of form-based code.
Tax credits already are available at both the state and federal level for persons rehabilitating historic structures. The rehabilitation must meet certain standards, but the take credits are substantial.
Way I see it, a historic building is a historic building, and if it's part of our cultural heritage, it should be made easier to get listed on the National register of Historic Places. Once it's listed, like an endangered species, it should be a high felony to demolish a historic structure.
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
Way I see it, a historic building is a historic building, and if it's part of our cultural heritage, it should be made easier to get listed on the National register of Historic Places. Once it's listed, like an endangered species, it should be a high felony to demolish a historic structure.
Many of us would agree, but in reality, the National Register of Historic Places is simply an honorary designation, and makes no restrictions on a building's upkeep or demolition. It simply exists to encourage maintenance and historic preservation. Upkeep and demolition are strictly local issues, covered by municipal historic preservation zoning, which can be difficult to obtain since it is so restrictive.
That's unfortunate. See, I was born in New Orleans, returned there to live for a while before moving to the Biloxi area, and I can say that it is a city that's all about history. Before Katrina, there was an eclectic collection of architectural styles and influences and eras all integrated together, and a strong preservation effort at work too. Even after Katrina, there's a movement to preserve and restore the historic architecture. Tulsa needs a movement like this.
I know I am replying to an old post here, but I am an avid urban explorer in the Tulsa area. I explore any and all abandoned buildings (underground tunnel systems under the city too), taking pictures and disturbing as little as possible. I am obsessed with Tulsa's past and a good way to unlock it is to see inside old buildings. If anyone is interested more into urban exploration, check out www.abandonedok.com . Also I am looking for people to explore with for numerous reasons.
Just thought I'd show you a blog related to this topic posted recently....
http://www.moderntulsa.net/blog/
Inside the Tulsa Club
June 9th, 2009
Walking past the Tulsa Club on my way to and from work every day definitely got me wondering what was inside. At one time this was the most prestigious social and athletic club in Tulsa so it had to be nice, right. I've heard lore of the wealthiest Tulsans including Waite Phillips indulging in the finer aspects of life at this facility.
So, let's just say someone invited me inside to take a tour. Two of my colleagues and I entered the building and had a look around. We thoroughly explored the facility from street level to the roof, from racquetball courts to ballrooms from bookkeeping to bathrooms... They really did have had a ton of bathrooms in this place and plenty of graffiti as well. See for yourself at the full photo gallery. http://picasaweb.google.com/moderntulsa/TulsaClubBuildingInterior?fgl=true&pli=1# (http://picasaweb.google.com/moderntulsa/TulsaClubBuildingInterior?fgl=true&pli=1#)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_vCqTskpHKHs/SiPdaaWcW9I/AAAAAAAABe0/HMTrrA2gt4g/IMG_4677.JPG?imgmax=800)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_vCqTskpHKHs/SiPdcxQw4uI/AAAAAAAABfY/WoXwQ1GVclA/IMG_4685.JPG?imgmax=800)
What really ticks me off is the business sites that are left to rot. I can think of a few I drove by on a daily basis. On 31st ST E. of Harvard there is the old Braums Corporate Office (I think - someone correct me if I'm mistaking this), a gas station, and a dental office that have been abandoned. The corporate offices just have the lettering of their sign torn out, the gas station has had a torn up tarp on the sign for years, and dentist's old office is spray painted black over the name. Shouldn't the mayor's action line respond to this stuff. Its much worse than someone getting behind on their mowing IMO.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=31st+and+Harvard,+Tulsa,+OK&sll=53.956086,-4.042969&sspn=18.00809,39.155273&ie=UTF8&ll=36.118828,-95.936716&spn=0.012029,0.019119&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.118821,-95.936821&panoid=HT1tDYZEukUP3UgnTQIdbg&cbp=12,349.75,,0,5
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=31st+and+Harvard,+Tulsa,+OK&sll=53.956086,-4.042969&sspn=18.00809,39.155273&ie=UTF8&ll=36.118828,-95.936222&spn=0.012029,0.019119&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.118824,-95.936106&panoid=HT1tDYZEukUP3UgnTQIdbg&cbp=12,319.83,,1,-4.26
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=31st+and+Harvard,+Tulsa,+OK&sll=53.956086,-4.042969&sspn=18.00809,39.155273&ie=UTF8&ll=36.118828,-95.935965&spn=0.012029,0.019119&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.118825,-95.935861&panoid=HT1tDYZEukUP3UgnTQIdbg&cbp=12,339.83,,0,19.37
Those photos are so depressing. My wedding reception was at the Tulsa Club in 1992 and my wife's high school reunion was there in 1993. It was such a unique and wonderful place. I think it closed shortly afterwards.
Ive been meaning to go take pictures on the inside of the Tulsa club building for a long time now. I sure hope someone takes it over and decides to restore it. I'm glad to see old buildings like the Mayo Hotel being restored. If they ever try to demolish the Tulsa club building, I will give them hell. One of my next projects will be documenting the old Oral Roberts Diamond building in between 17th and 18th on Boulder. It was a beautiful building back in its hey day, but its now falling apart.
Those photos of the Tulsa Club building nearly bring me to tears. This was one of Tulsa's most prominent Art Deco showplaces in the late '20s-1930s. A sad, tragic outcome for a grand building.
On the subject of abandoned residential homes, I am facing that problem directly. The house across the street from me on 26th street was abandoned in October 2008. The owners made no effort to sell the house, they just simply walked away, leaving the house and land full of trash and debris. A large 50' tree in the back yard recently split and fell on the neighboring property to the east, right on top of their ski boat. The remaining 2/3 of the tree is threatening to fall and take down power lines, damage other neighboring property and poses a threat to our neighborhood pool. Multiple reports have been made to AEP/PSO, the Mayor's Action Center, and City of Tulsa code enforcement department; they all basically have said there is nothing they can do and have given us the complete brush off. They say it is all up to the mortgage holder and the legal system to resolve. Meanwhile, we have this growing eyesore and potential danger to contend with. Suggestions, anyone?
Call the channel 2 problem solvers or Fox 23 works for you. They seem to be able to take care of things....
Speaking of eyesores...
From The Tulsa County News, Editorial, Wednesday, June 10, 2009:
QuoteCrystal City a black eye on Southwest Tulsa
For several years, Southwest Tulsans have wished that something could be done about Crystal City. Maybe they are about to get their wish.
The steadily deteriorating shopping center on Southwest Boulevard gives Southwest Tulsa a black eye. Not only does it flank Historic Route 66 at one of the proposed "gateways" to Tulsa, it can be seen by motorists passing through on Interstate 244.
The mostly-empty shopping center in its heyday was a proud symbol of a thriving community west of the Arkansas River. But for several years, the Crystal City property has been declining. Tenants have steadily fled the buildings which reportedly need significant roof work and other maintenance.
With encouragement from the Southwest Tulsa's Community Chamber and STAR Coalition, Tulsa Mayor Kathy Taylor asked for a meeting with the property's owner. She invited City Councilor Rick Westcott, Fire Chief Allen LeCroix, and officials with the Working In Neighborhoods department charged with code enforcement.
An ultimatum was delivered by the delegation to Crystal City's owner - bring the property up to code standards or face civil penalties. Under a new city ordinance approved last year, the city can levy penalties up to $1,000 per day for properties that are chronic violators of the city's fire, safety and health codes.
While this "spend your money now or later" offer sounds reasonable, there is a complication. Crystal City is only one of about 200 problematic properties controlled by the same owner. And he faces the same ultimatum for all of them.
Nevertheless, Crystal City's owner was given 60 days to show progress and present a plan to reverse the blight.
The clock is running.
I've heard that the owner, when asked about leasing space, quotes rates that are insanely high. He'd rather it be empty, I guess. Med-X will be moving out soon - they're building a new pharmacy just west of Crystal City. I wish the whole place would be bulldozed.
Quote from: Fiend on June 11, 2009, 08:13:35 PM
Call the channel 2 problem solvers or Fox 23 works for you. They seem to be able to take care of things....
Channel 2...not much help. You have to resolve it yourself and then they come in and talk to you about it. Very Strange
Quote from: Steve on June 11, 2009, 05:57:32 PM
Those photos of the Tulsa Club building nearly bring me to tears. This was one of Tulsa's most prominent Art Deco showplaces in the late '20s-1930s. A sad, tragic outcome for a grand building.
On the subject of abandoned residential homes, I am facing that problem directly. The house across the street from me on 26th street was abandoned in October 2008. The owners made no effort to sell the house, they just simply walked away, leaving the house and land full of trash and debris. A large 50' tree in the back yard recently split and fell on the neighboring property to the east, right on top of their ski boat. The remaining 2/3 of the tree is threatening to fall and take down power lines, damage other neighboring property and poses a threat to our neighborhood pool. Multiple reports have been made to AEP/PSO, the Mayor's Action Center, and City of Tulsa code enforcement department; they all basically have said there is nothing they can do and have given us the complete brush off. They say it is all up to the mortgage holder and the legal system to resolve. Meanwhile, we have this growing eyesore and potential danger to contend with. Suggestions, anyone?
AEP is across Yale from you today and through next week. Have you seen a green door hang on that abandoned house? That would be the notice from AEP to let them know they are about to cut.
Quote from: Townsend on June 12, 2009, 11:02:57 AM
Channel 2...not much help. You have to resolve it yourself and then they come in and talk to you about it. Very Strange
Not the way it happened for my brother when he had a problem during a home sale with the abstract company. He sent an email to them (KRJH) and they pressured the company, even though he didn't get on the news just the specter of having negative publicity was a little much for said company.
Quote from: Hoss on June 12, 2009, 01:15:44 PM
Not the way it happened for my brother when he had a problem during a home sale with the abstract company. He sent an email to them (KRJH) and they pressured the company, even though he didn't get on the news just the specter of having negative publicity was a little much for said company.
Ah great. I'm glad they were effective for you mother.
I wish they'd done a better job for us. It might not have had the juice they want for a story.
Quote from: Steve on June 11, 2009, 05:57:32 PM
Those photos of the Tulsa Club building nearly bring me to tears. This was one of Tulsa's most prominent Art Deco showplaces in the late '20s-1930s. A sad, tragic outcome for a grand building.
This is really sad. This would make wonderful condos/office space when the economy recovers enough for a developer to get financing and make it happen. Might be sometime though before anything could be done. What a waste of beautiful art deco architecture.
Quote from: Townsend on June 12, 2009, 11:04:17 AM
AEP is across Yale from you today and through next week. Have you seen a green door hang on that abandoned house? That would be the notice from AEP to let them know they are about to cut.
Yep. There is a green PSO door hang on the front door of the abandoned house dated about 3 weeks ago and the box is checked that says "the tree has been inspected and poses no threat to power lines. No AEP work will be done."
Either the inspector is blind, or he looked at the wrong tree. That property has a double-deep back yard that is divided in half by a wood privacy fence, supposedly so the woman of the house there did not have to look at all her husband's junk. The back (north) half of the property where the dangerous tree is located is full of junk appliances, old machine parts, trash and 4' high weeds and grass. Probably a nice colony of rats too. Maybe the PSO guy did not realize this and did not actually see the dangerous tree which is located on the back half of the property, beyond the wood fence.
The saga continues. Meanwhile, myself and 2 other neighbors try to keep the front yard mowed so we don't have to look at a jungle every time we walk out the front door.
Quote from: Steve on June 13, 2009, 05:58:13 PM
Yep. There is a green PSO door hang on the front door of the abandoned house dated about 3 weeks ago and the box is checked that says "the tree has been inspected and poses no threat to power lines. No AEP work will be done."
Either the inspector is blind, or he looked at the wrong tree. That property has a double-deep back yard that is divided in half by a wood privacy fence, supposedly so the woman of the house there did not have to look at all her husband's junk. The back (north) half of the property where the dangerous tree is located is full of junk appliances, old machine parts, trash and 4' high weeds and grass. Probably a nice colony of rats too. Maybe the PSO guy did not realize this and did not actually see the dangerous tree which is located on the back half of the property, beyond the wood fence.
The saga continues. Meanwhile, myself and 2 other neighbors try to keep the front yard mowed so we don't have to look at a jungle every time we walk out the front door.
Wouldn't doubt that for a minute. I had a 75 foot ash tree that would span out across the utility eave; every four years or so PSO would come out and trim it. Well, after AsPlundh took it over, I had to call to have them come out a night after a storm where the winds would blow into the lines and I could visibly see sparks arcing from the power line to the tree. Power outages quite often. They left a hang tag on my door and said it wouldn't need to be trimmed for three years. I called a number someone from here gave me I believe that was a direct line to the department that handled that and threatened to call the Corp Commission if someone didn't come out and look again when it was obvious they needed to be trimmed. A supervisor was out that evening and even called me to corroborate my beliefs and she was just as perplexed as I was as to why the determination was made that three years was the number. Asplundh was out there the next morning and had the work done three days later. This was before the ice storm. And just before the ice storm I had both of those trees removed anyway (both the 75 foot variety of ash) and glad I did. Had those stayed up, I would have had hell to pay for the roof.