This from channel eight...
Nazi Group Plans Protest At Victory Christian Center Monday April 16, 2007
Tulsa police officers could be busy dealing with confrontational crowds today as an Oklahoma Nazi group plans a protest in front of the Victory Christian Center. The group is planning to protest the Victory Christian Center's 'Night to Honor Israel'. It's a tribute to the nation of Israel and the Jewish people of the World.
The purpose of the church presentation is to promote an understanding between Christians and Jews and to emphasize the things in common as believers in God. According to the coordinator of the group that is protesting, the rally will take place Monday evening on the sidewalk in front of Victory Christian Center.
Participants will be wearing Swastika armbands, carrying signs and distributing literature. Tulsa police plan to be on hand to make sure nothing confrontational erupts.
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Originally posted by recyclemichael
This from channel eight...
Nazi Group Plans Protest At Victory Christian Center Monday April 16, 2007
Tulsa police officers could be busy dealing with confrontational crowds today as an Oklahoma Nazi group plans a protest in front of the Victory Christian Center. The group is planning to protest the Victory Christian Center's 'Night to Honor Israel'. It's a tribute to the nation of Israel and the Jewish people of the World.
The purpose of the church presentation is to promote an understanding between Christians and Jews and to emphasize the things in common as believers in God. According to the coordinator of the group that is protesting, the rally will take place Monday evening on the sidewalk in front of Victory Christian Center.
Participants will be wearing Swastika armbands, carrying signs and distributing literature. Tulsa police plan to be on hand to make sure nothing confrontational erupts.
I hate Illinois Nazis...
(http://www.nederpoparchief.nl/bluesbrothers/script_20.jpg)
Oh, I thought they were calling themselves the Minuteman Project now and what happened to the balloons for kids? [B)]
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Originally posted by DM
Oh, I thought they were calling themselves the Minuteman Project now and what happened to the balloons for kids? [B)]
Surely you can do better than that...I gave you a Blues Brothers reference and you went with the Minute Men...
Which side is Mel Gibson on?
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Originally posted by iplaw
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Originally posted by DM
Oh, I thought they were calling themselves the Minuteman Project now and what happened to the balloons for kids? [B)]
Surely you can do better than that...I gave you a Blues Brothers reference and you went with the Minute Men...
It was the arm bands that I had to go with. [:P]
This is hard for me. I really disdain hate groups like these guys, but am a strong believer in free speech.
I wish there was a group like the Patriot Guard who would rev their motorbikes to drown out the Nazi demonstrators.
I don't know. On one hand I hate the Nazis, but on the other hand that fat, miserable, Chief Wiggum wannabe...the Jabba the Hut of evangelical christians John Hagee will be the keynote speaker. I almost want anything to distract from him being in town...
(http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/images/chiefstandingtall.gif)
(http://www.freewilliamsburg.com/archives/JohnHagee.jpg)
Whoo boy!
This will definitely be interesting.
But I do have to wonder exactly where the group will be located. Virtually every square inch of ground there is privately owned by Victory, ORU, the Hilton, or WalMart.
Nazis and Christianists in the same block. All that's missing is Fred Phelps' congregation.
Sheesh.
Maybe we could put on an impromptu version of the play "The Producers". Imagine a continuing chorus of "Spring Time for Hitler".
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Originally posted by iplaw
I don't know. On one hand I hate the Nazis, but on the other hand that fat, miserable, Chief Wiggum wannabe...the Jabba the Hut of evangelical christians John Hagee will be the keynote speaker. I almost want anything to distract from him being in town...
I agree with you iplaw. That is the best description I have heard yet of John Hagee.
If you ask these "Christians" to their face why they are such big Jewish/Israel supporters, they will tell you it is just compassion for their fellow man. But if you watch John Hagee's TV broadcasts, 90% of the time he is "bombasting" about Revelation, the end times, and Israel's role in the "second coming." Must be that these "the end is near" tirades really fill the coffers and rake in the bucks from the gullible.
I don't think evangelicals like Hagee and his followers give a flying flip about Jews, they are only concerned about the existence of Israel and its role in fulfilling their interpretation of biblical prophecy.
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I agree with you iplaw. That is the best description I have heard yet of John Hagee.
If you ask these "Christians" to their face why they are such big Jewish/Israel supporters, they will tell you it is just compassion for their fellow man. But if you watch John Hagee's TV broadcasts, 90% of the time he is "bombasting" about Revelation, the end times, and Israel's role in the "second coming." Must be that these "the end is near" tirades really fill the coffers and rake in the bucks from the gullible.
I don't think evangelicals like Hagee and his followers give a flying flip about Jews, they are only concerned about the existence of Israel and its role in fufilling their interpretation of biblical prophecy.
I think to a large extent you are right. There are some who genuinely care about the Israeli people but having this meeting under the pretenses of solidarity of belief in Yahweh is mostly fluff. I think a christian's support of Israel should fall within the realm of protecting the only credible democracy and leave the religious nonsense out.
For once, iplaw and I agree. [:)]
Me and my immature college roommates are brainstorming ideas for tonight. Updates coming later.
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Originally posted by rwarn17588
For once, iplaw and I agree. [:)]
April 16, 2007 - Mass shooting at VA Tech, Nazis in Tulsa, and Iplaw and rwarn agree. What is this world coming too??
I'm on board with IP's statement also.
Other than driving a 1980 police cruiser with cop motor, cop shocks and cop tires threw their formation... ignoring them is probably the next best thing. Third on the list would be a counter protest pointing out that Hitler only had one testicle and was one of the worst military leaders of all time (great orator and nationalist, HORRIBLE military leader). It might also be worth mentioning that his paintings suck, his mustache was ridiculous, and he hid from the war when it got too close for comfort while sending boys out to die. "Hitler was a p**sy" might make a nice banner.
I hate Oklahoma Nazi's (too).
I've never seen real-life Nazis. I may get a slushy at Sonic and watch the tomfoolery unfold. [}:)]
Ok guys, we've got mock ideas. But what time does this thing start?
Tulsa like the nation is made up of sectarian groups. When a group is isolated with the finger pointing they become no better that the Nazis who found leadership in Hitler bring them back in existence after their defeat in the first world.
As having been advised we are not a nation with a nationality but a melting pot full of ingredients that by their generics will never mix.
Between the Euphrates and the Tigris rivers in Iraqi, which by the book of the history of the Jew is where the garden East to Eden was planted. The Jews are not of the Christian belief as the Pharisees of the temple believed Jesus was an imposter. Who are the anti-Christ?
The unfortunate part that we have to relate to is the killing of the students today. Now a new landslide of gun controls will sweep the country. The enemy to our way of life lies within and an unarmed nation can only lead to defeat.
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Originally posted by teddy jack eddy
How interesting this situation is!
One the one hand, you have the ultra right-wing Nazis, and on the other hand you have the ultra right-wing Fundamentalists.
It was both a political hatred and a religious hatred that led the right wing in Nazi Germany to act like it did against the Jews.
The Nazis felt they were racially superior to the Jews, and today's Fundamentalists feel they are religiously superior to the Jews (who are going to hell because they don't believe in the return of Jesus).
So where does that leave the Jews?
The Jews are hell-bound, both by Fundamentalist brainwashing and Nazi brainwashing.
I'm not so worried about the Nazis, we have a pretty good idea of their agenda. It's the religious Fundamentalists I'm concerned about.
I, for one, am convinced the "Anti-Christ" (if indeed there will be one) will be a product of the Fundamentalist "Christian" movement. What better cloak for Satan to have than the mantle of religion?
It is an active breeding ground for dangerous religious/political demogogues, in short, another Hitler, but a Fundamentalist Hitler.
The Fundamentalists have tried to make it appear as though whomever speaks out against them are against God. In this manner, they have stilled the voices of their opposition in Tulsa. This is the same technique the Nazis used to still the outcry of their treatment of the Jews.
I wish people would stop comparing everything to Nazis, it's tired and cliche.
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Originally posted by iplaw
I hate Illinois Nazis...
(http://www.nederpoparchief.nl/bluesbrothers/script_20.jpg)
[/quote]
That was the first thing I thought of when I read the topic header. [}:)]
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I also don't see much difference between the Nazi mind and the Fundamentalist mind.
Then you aren't looking very closely. What part of sticking Jews in pizza ovens and gassing them with poison reminds you evangelical fundamentalism, especially the dog and pony shows for money on TV?
Every time someone makes a wrongheaded comparison to Nazi germany that isn't appropriate, it takes something away from not only the victims, but from us remembering exactly how evil they were.
Nazism is a form of fundamentalism.
Nazis think they are descendants of Nordic superhumans whose blood has been watered down by inferior races.
Its a religious belief, and any time religious beliefs are forced on the people, freedom is lost.
In all fairness IP, he didnt compare fundamentalist actions to Nazi actions but the similarity of their minds.
I believe he was attempting to insinuate that both are susceptible to the cult of personality (often the preacher of a mega church) and of herd mentality. While Hitler spoke of what is best for the Aryan race, the preacher speaks for what Jesus would have wanted - and the herd follows. Both are being told what to think by a riveting personality and by pressure to follow the crowd. The mass gatherings of Christians do bare a startling resemblance to Nuremberg; with banners displaying the cross fluttering in massive stadiums as a central figure speaks to the masses to orchestrated cheers.
The obvious fault would lie in the fact that not all, or even many, fundamentalists preachers nor followers fall into this category. Nor do most do so in an attempt to consolidate power. Similarly, one likes to think that few in the United States preach such an unyielding message of hate (bar Fred Phelps) nor that many followers have been led to atrocities (bar Jim Jones, David Koresh, those freaks in California, and again - Fred Phelps). And of course, in the United States, dissent is allowed by law and often welcomed by religous organizations (as seen by Christian/Jew/Muslim fellowships were they discuss their beliefs).
As an interesting side note, many Nazi organizations are also self proclaimed fundamentalist Christians. "Good protestant white folk," as it were. Religion is just as susceptible to distortion as anything else - which speaks nothing of any particular religion.
But yes, the constant Godwin cries of "Nazi" are tiresome and over used.
----------
But back on topic - what went down with the Nazi's? I see they were larger ignored/over shadowed by the VT shootings.
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I'll tell you why they are alike. Both Fundamentalist and Nazis are all about control.
So's my wife, but that doesn't make her a Nazi.
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The Nazis recruited the following generation of young children through youth soldier/patriot organizations. The Fundies have Jesus camp. Same difference; it's all in the brainwashing. You have to be taught very carefully how to hate, and whom to hate.
No. It's very different. Nazis recruited people for the military; and a bloody takeover of the world.
Brainwashing occurs/ed is both cases, but for completely different ends.
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I think the Fundies would love to exterminate or jail all the homosexuals, all the liberals, atheists, Catholics, Episcopals,pro-choicers, and burn all books and ban all media broadcasts that don't suit their purposes.
That's just ignorant and inflammatory. I hate fundamental evangelicalism, but I'm not willing to hand over my rationality and common sense just to knock on them.
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I think Fundamentalists are very dangerous to everyone's freedom.
Nonsense. They're idiots, but they don't have that much control or influence.
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Originally posted by South_Tulsan
Nazism is a form of fundamentalism.
Nazis think they are descendants of Nordic superhumans whose blood has been watered down by inferior races.
Its a religious belief, and any time religious beliefs are forced on the people, freedom is lost.
Nazis were nihilistic in philosophy. They may have given lip service to ancient religions, but they were driven by the idea that man was a product of "blood and soil."
The idea that Nazis were "pagan" worshipers is, I hate to say, a simplistic line of propaganda created by the church after there were accusations made against the pope for his complicity with the actions of Hitler.
Sure there were little, religious overtones to Nazi germany, but they had little to do with the nihilism that emerged.
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Originally posted by cannon_fodder
In all fairness IP, he didnt compare fundamentalist actions to Nazi actions but the similarity of their minds.
Which I took exception to. It's difficult for me to compare people who's goal was the extermination of an entire race of people with a religious movement comprised of mainly overweight, coiffured, and poorly dressed TV hucksters and snake oil salesmen. i don't see a lot of similarity of thought there.
I understand where you are coming from IP. However, it is worth noting the tenancies that enabled the Nazi party to pursue its agenda has similarities to the way in which some fundamentalists are able to pursue theirs. I attempted to articulate some of those similarities and point out the differences in goals.
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Originally posted by iplaw
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Originally posted by cannon_fodder
In all fairness IP, he didnt compare fundamentalist actions to Nazi actions but the similarity of their minds.
Which I took exception to. It's difficult for me to compare people who's goal was the extermination of an entire race of people with a religious movement comprised of mainly overweight, coiffured, and poorly dressed TV hucksters and snake oil salesmen. i don't see a lot of similarity of thought there.
Oh, you mean like these:
(http://skyjude.users.btopenworld.com/fletchuk/Images/1fletchlives5.jpg)
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Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I understand where you are coming from IP. However, it is worth noting the tenancies that enabled the Nazi party to pursue its agenda has similarities to the way in which some fundamentalists are able to pursue theirs. I attempted to articulate some of those similarities and point out the differences in goals.
I hate to tell you, but manipulation, coercion and propaganda are methods that human employs from time to time. Anything can be categorized as brainwashing or propaganda if you try hard enough. It's the goals that they are attempting to achieve that matter; not the tactics.
IOW, someone who uses propaganda and brainwashing to convince people that socialism is a good system is by no means as detrimental as those who use propaganda to convince people that they should kill others to ensure that a country becomes socialistic.
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Originally posted by Conan71
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Originally posted by iplaw
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Originally posted by cannon_fodder
In all fairness IP, he didnt compare fundamentalist actions to Nazi actions but the similarity of their minds.
Which I took exception to. It's difficult for me to compare people who's goal was the extermination of an entire race of people with a religious movement comprised of mainly overweight, coiffured, and poorly dressed TV hucksters and snake oil salesmen. i don't see a lot of similarity of thought there.
Oh, you mean like these:
(http://skyjude.users.btopenworld.com/fletchuk/Images/1fletchlives5.jpg)
Heh. I just watched that last night.
Dude, we must live in a parallel universe. I watched the "Fletchathon" last night. First comment I could think of when I saw the "Nazi" post was: "I hate Illinois Nazis!"
I thought R. Lee was perfect for his role in Fletch Lives. I didn't realize that Julianne Phillips (Becky Culpepper) was Bruce Springsteen's former wife.
Scarry, truly scarry.
I heard there was a grand total of 4 morons who protested, and the only incident was the ticketing of someone who threw a half eaten apple at the protesters. At least it was biodegradable weapon.
SO its okay to brainwash people as long as the immediate objective isn't genocide?
Here I thought protecting a society of free thinkers would prevent many of the atrocities the world has known. If you train people to follow the heard in one arena, why would they feel free to go it alone in another? Someone who blindly follows the thoughts of another will soon lose the capacity to determine if those thoughts are logical, strange, or even evil.
No one starts by saying join me and follow me and I will turn you evil.
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SO its okay to brainwash people as long as the immediate objective isn't genocide?
The brainwashing is corollary to the point. The TV evangelist scam artists aren't preparing an army to affect a violent overthrow of the nation, or the extermination of an entire ethnic group, and you don't have to go any farther than that. Maybe I'm just blind to their sinister plans...
Nickelodeon has been brainwash kids with advertising for decades. Check out the book "The Tipping Point" it has a great chapter on countless hours that were expended to hone the program Blues Clues, it's astounding. Nickelodeon has singularly created the tween marketing sector through product hype, but I'm not going to relate them to Nazi germany.
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No one starts by saying join me and follow me and I will turn you evil.
Of course not, but the person doing that brainwashing usually is directing the masses with his own underlying evil motives. With TV evangelists, their underlying motive is greed, not a coup of the government or genocide of unbelievers.
I wish we could get people to speak out as forcefully against militant Islam as they do against TV evangelists. But what we get are talking heads from all sides who fall all over themselves to be apologists for them.
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Originally posted by iplaw
I heard there was a grand total of 4 morons who protested, and the only incident was the ticketing of someone who threw a half eaten apple at the protesters. At least it was biodegradable weapon.
[}:)]
I agree wholly with your underlying point IP. As much as it pains me, this is the best example I can come up with... by the time people realized what Hitler was trying to brainwash people to do they were either unwilling or unable to stop them. I dont anticipate something horrible from Jerry Falwell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw - hilarious), but I'd still prefer people do a little thinking for themselves.
and, btw, I believe militant Islam is way more dangerous that TV evangelists. Unfortunately, I dont know any that I can try to convince of the error of their ways.
This trumps Fallwell and the previous Tilton ones:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/07/fartingpreacher.html