http://www.ktvz.com/story.cfm?nav=oregon&storyID=18920
Some photos that surfaced on the Internet revealed a darker side of the recent Iraq war protests in Portland.
(http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/L_IMAGE.11173d7f37e.93.88.fa.d0.8165bdf.jpg)
Thousands marched in Portland downtown streets Sunday to protest the fourth anniversary of the start of the war. As the march along 24 blocks ended, a group of young people led police on bicycles, horses and motorcycles through downtown.
A few scuffles broke out, with police using pepper spray at one point, and several people were led away in plastic cuffs.
The photos showed protesters gathered around a figure wearing U.S. military fatigues and a crude skull for a head as it and an American flag were lit on fire.
This was on drudge a couple of days ago... those people clearly are radicals. They burned a US soldier in effigy for gods sake.
I'd also like to point out that hanging an American flag upside down means HELP. What does it mean when you burn the symbol for help? I just dont get it. I'm going to go ahead and assume they were more interested in doing something 'cool' and being attention whores than making a statement.
Plus, Portland is the most leftist city in the nation. The whole state of Oregon, for that matter, is a hippy haven.
That group represents a fraction of the 'anti-war' crowd. Most peaceniks are not of that ilk. Having said that those punks should be tried for something and we should all boycott Nike.
your assumption about the entire state of oregon being 'hippy heaven' is incorrect.
you get outside of the metropolitan areas (portland & eugene) & things are quite a bit different. its not much different than OK in terms of demographics & political ideaology.
By james' logic, the 60-plus percent of America who want U.S. troops withdrawn from Iraq are like those protesters.
Please. [}:)]
A strong majority of Americans are against the war because 1) it's a failed effort; and 2) Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.
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Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.
Good god, can we drop this canard already?
Hey, the truth hurts.
The Emporer of Ranch Acres would like to assure the King of Red Fork that we have no intentions of invading.
As long as you get rid of your WMD.
Damn, I'll have to get rid of my pliers. [}:)]
grahambino, I understand that most of rural Oregon is actual conservative. Just like Northern California and western Washington. But the masses in those metro areas outweigh the voting power of the rural areas. King County was one of 3 counties in Washington to vote democratic... but the state is always taken by democrats.
Rwarn:
The colonist should have just paid their taxes and shut up. The monarchy was on its way out anyway so they should have just been patient.
Slavery probably would have ender on its own, largely resolving the socio economic causes for the civil war. It was not needed.
We picked a fight with Mexico just for a land grab.
The Maine was sunk because of a boiler problem, not the Spanish.
The Lusitania was carrying war supplies.
We had airmen fighting both the Japanese and Germans before was was declared in WWII. Not to mention the direct aid we gave China and the UK prior to our entrance. They had a right to attack us.
North Korea never recognized the UN so it could not violate its charter by invading the South. That was a civil war and we had no right to intervene.
The United States had no right to make a colonial claim in Vietnam nor a UN sanction.
- How long after the fact does it remain more relevant than events that followed?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
- How long after the fact does it remain more relevant than events that followed?
"More" is kind of relative isn't it? There are those that believe this Administration sold the American public a collection of lies for the single purpose of invading Iraq. If true, the Administration can likely never be believed in basically anthing it does. It lacks credibility, because of the sales pitch on Iraq. Many of these supported the war in Afghanistan, and still do. So, the "sales pitch" would be very relevant, it killed the Administration's credibility.
On the other hand, there are those who believe that the Administration was honest, but completely incompetent and incapable of executing the war properly. To them, reasons for the invasion were just another showing of incompetence either by intelligence or the Administration. The reasons for invading Iraq aren't so important in that case, because it's the actual execution of the war that comes into question.
Then of course there's the other group of folks that believe either the Administration was completely honest, or spread necessary misinformation. They either claim that everything in Iraq is going well, or they blame anti-war activists and Democrats for any tactical or strategic failures in Iraq. The run up to Iraq isn't a question at all here.
I'd be in that middle group.
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Originally posted by rwarn17588
Hey, the truth hurts.
Is that the litmus test from now on for the WOT? We can't deal with someone unless they were involved with 9/11?
What about pre-empting the 9/12 attack or 10/11 attack?
Last time I'm going to say it and I'll type real slow because some of you are slow on the up-take: Iraq was ripe to become the petri dish for the next band of terrorist thugs after we booted the Taliban out of Afghanistan.
Even beloved Bill Clinton believed there was WMD in Iraq.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I'd also like to point out that hanging an American flag upside down means HELP. What does it mean when you burn the symbol for help?
I was thinking the same thing.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Plus, Portland is the most leftist city in the nation. The whole state of Oregon, for that matter, is a hippy haven.
Wrong.
Oregon has a lot of red. (//%22http://www.berkeleysquarejazz.com/blog/archives/Election%202004%20by%20county.bmp%22)
A lot of people -- but by no means all -- believed there were WMDs in Iraq ... right until those arms inspectors before the invasion went in and inconveniently found none. And the invasion confirmed the arms inspectors' warnings.
Even if Clinton believed in the WMDs, at least he was smart enough to lay back and not put the country in the middle of a quagmire. That's why Brent Scowcroft and Bush the First didn't invade Iraq the first time -- the risks were too great.
And, yes, go after the 9/11 perps before going after a "petri dish." It seem incredibly stupid to go after a *potential* al-Qaida haven than a real one. Let's deal with reality, not hypotheticals.
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A lot of people -- but by no means all -- believed there were WMDs in Iraq ... right until those arms inspectors before the invasion went in and inconveniently found none.
Hmmm. I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that we telegraphed our intentions for about a year before we went in...
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Even if Clinton believed in the WMDs, at least he was smart enough to lay back and not put the country in the middle of a quagmire. That's why Brent Scowcroft and Bush the First didn't invade Iraq the first time -- the risks were too great.
You've stated this before, and I've proven you wrong before. Neither Clinton nor Scowcroft intimated or forewarned us of the insurgency (which by the way was designed and initiated by Zarqawi before his death), and to say so is duplicitous. They both opposed the war to be sure, but for differing reasons than you're implying.
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And, yes, go after the 9/11 perps before going after a "petri dish." It seem incredibly stupid to go after a *potential* al-Qaida haven than a real one. Let's deal with reality, not hypotheticals.
You're acting as if the invasion of Afghanistan never occurred...
This was more than a "potential" locus of terrorism. Iraq had genuine links to terrorist elements pre invasion. Here are a few for you:
1. Abdul Rahman Yasin, one of the makers of the bomb that damaged the World Trade Center, was picked up by the FBI, but later released. He went straight to Amman and afterwards to Baghdad, where he remained under Saddam Hussein's protection until late 2002.
2. Abu Abbas the murderer of Klinghoffer on the Achille Lauro was traveling on an Iraqi diplomatic passport. He was a part of Abu Nidal's organization that was part of the Baath Party.
3. Let's not forget the late, great, Zarqawi who was roaming the streets of Baghdad long before we got there.
4.
The Age of Sacred Terror justified the Clinton strike on Khartoum because
Iraqi weapons-scientists were linked to Bin Laden's factory which was used only by Iraq to make VX nerve gas. Richard Clarke defended the bombing, telling
Meet the Press that he was "sure" that "intelligence existed linking bin Laden to Al Shifa's current and past operators, the Iraqi nerve gas experts and the National Islamic Front in Sudan." (//%22www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/perspective/stories/s1158870.htm%20%22)
Again, you're talking mostly about non-9/11 stuff. Let's deal with actual 9/11 terrorists in Afghanistan first.
Priorities, people.
And the fourth item depends on U.S. intelligence, which hasn't exactly had a very good track record in this whole affair.
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Originally posted by rwarn17588
Again, you're talking mostly about non-9/11 stuff. Let's deal with actual 9/11 terrorists in Afghanistan first.
Priorities, people.
And the fourth item depends on U.S. intelligence, which hasn't exactly had a very good track record in this whole affair.
I think a strong corollary lesson learned from 9/11 is that you don't ignore problems until they reach a tipping point resulting in dead Americans.
We dessimated the Taliban in Afghanistan. They have made a comeback, but they are now far less organized and in NO shape to pull off what they made happen on 9/11.
OBL is long gone from Afghanistan, the Taliban was defeated and it is now up to the Karzai government to deal with quashing the Taliban with the help of the international community (when asked of course).
There is no credible evidence that proves we have not won the war in Afghanistan, or that we are rebuiding with less vigor than what is needed. What Afghanistan is in need of now are social, economic and infrastrucural improvements. A well trained Army and viable economy are their greatest needs, but that's something more US troops can't provide for them, and going to take something Americans aren't very good at giving and that's TIME. Democracy and a country with a vibrant economy and social equality isn't born overnight, especially in the ME.
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Oregon has a lot of red. (//%22http://www.berkeleysquarejazz.com/blog/archives/Election%202004%20by%20county.bmp%22)
Pretty sure I covered this above. As your map indicates, PORTLAND is a leftist heaven. As are the metropolitan areas of the entire northwest.
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grahambino, I understand that most of rural Oregon is actual conservative. Just like Northern California and western Washington. But the masses in those metro areas outweigh the voting power of the rural areas. King County was one of 3 counties in Washington to vote democratic... but the state is always taken by democrats.
Yep, I did cover it. Thought so.
[:)]
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The American public is really justified in protesting this war. The people want to stop the war, but the President ignores the people's will.
Yes, and this is not a democracy or majority rule nation. Get over it.
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The President lied to us to get us in this war in the first place.
Care to back this up?
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Originally posted by teddy jack eddy
The American public is really justified in protesting this war. The people want to stop the war, but the President ignores the people's will. The President lied to us to get us in this war in the first place. Now he ignores us when we want to withdraw (and we should be embarassed for starting this whole war).
He and Cheney should be impeached and replaced by Nancy Pelosi for the remainder of their term. Karl Rove should be in prison.
Who does this President think he is?
TJ- this is really old lib-tard re-tread material. We've covered this ground so much in the past there's a 3 ft. deep trench.
Pelosi as President? She should be tried for sedition for her own self-imposed foreign policy.
Yeah good choice Pelosi. Nothing like legitimizing Bashar al-Assad, a known terrorist and the murderer of Rafik Hariri. He's the defacto head of Hezbollah in Syria. Pelosi is either seriously misinformed as to who this animal is, or is actively trying to undermind the WOT.
I think it's appropriate that he chose the name he did, as teddy jack is crazier than a ****house rat
(http://dvdtalk.com/cineschlock/blog/busey.jpg)
Yeah, that Pelosi trip turned out pretty bad, alright. She really botched that (NOT!). Funny how Bush freaked out about her visit, all the while keeping his mouth shut about the Republicans that were visiting.
Tim, the issue is that she went as if she were a head of state. Ever see all the posed photo ops and being paraded around? She is not a head of state, she is the speaker of the house.
The issue is that haters never change. She went as the People's representative, for better or worse. Whether Syria's agreement is worth anything is up to debate, but I think it is great that she went. I do not recall her burning flags during her visit, spitting on photos of your boy Dubya, or making unilateral agreements.
No harm no foul unless the idea of strong womyn Democrats puts a sker into you.
Haters never change?
Coming from Mr. I hate Conan71, IPLaw and all other Republicans, you should know.
Then what was the point in going to meet President Asshat then? He hates America and will never change.
It was an openly politically defiant gesture aimed at the President and State Department.
The Syrians and all other haters of the U.S. are snickering now because of this divided front. That is precisely what the terrorists and other enemies of the U.S. are counting on. Ever hear of the concept "Divide and conquer?" This sends a clear signal to the terrorists they are winning the war.
You need to quit making up personal issues about other posters being afraid of women, races, and sexual preference. It's a very thin veil for your own insecurities.
Methinks you protest too much. I should have said 'unless one is afraid of blah blah.' I did not mean YOU are a hater, in particular, but if you want to own that insult have at it.
Yup, them Republicans squeal like stuck pigs when Nancy goes to Syria as the rep of the Legislative branch.
Garsh I am looking for her statement where she says she is assuming the role of Secstate and cannot find it. I must have missed that.
Please address the following and don't deflect off by making spurrious comments like Pelosi "stating" she was assuming the role of Secretary of State.
I don't recall any speaker of the house in the past publicly going to a country we are at odds with on a diplomatic mission. It was an act of defiance and arrogance toward our foreign policy.
If haters never change, then what was the point in going to meet President Asshat then? He hates America and will never change.
It was an openly politically defiant gesture aimed at the President and State Department.
The Syrians and all other haters of the U.S. are snickering now because of this divided front. That is precisely what the terrorists and other enemies of the U.S. are counting on. Ever hear of the concept "Divide and conquer?" This sends a clear signal to the terrorists they are winning the WOT.
Please address.
Hey Timmy. Could please explain how meetings with foreign heads of state, namely Syrian terrorists, falls within the pervue of her duties as the friggin Speaker of the House?
Also, I don't recall any photos ops with Republicans wearing hijabs and heads of states which harbor, promote and participate in acts of terrorism, but any Repub participating deserves the same scorn.
Notice that Olmert came out and slapped her in the face for speaking on behalf of the people of Israel.
Look I am just going what I am hearing out there from you starry-eyed Bushiites after W's ranting press conference. Ya'll just drinkin' that yeller kool-aid your boy is dribbling down on you. Mmmm mmm good, idn't?
The Bushiites had no problem with the Republican delegations that have gone over there, did they? No. And just because it has not been done before does not mean it should not be tried. Besides, what makes you think Bush/Pelosi are not playing good cop/bad cop?
If the int'l community is 'snickering' (hearing voices, now?) it is because they see what a joke the Admin's foreign policy is.
Are you speaking English?
There have been NO legislatorial envoys for diplomatic purposes. When channels of communication are opened it is under the direct control of the executive branch. The legislative branch has no authority to negotiate on behalf of the USA.
As far as the international community is concerned, they can eat me. Being alone or with a small multilateral group waging the WOT is no indication of it's invalidity.
BTW, how are things going AOX?
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Look I am just going what I am hearing out there from you starry-eyed Bushiites after W's ranting press conference. Ya'll just drinkin' that yeller kool-aid your boy is dribbling down on you. Mmmm mmm good, idn't?
The Bushiites had no problem with the Republican delegations that have gone over there, did they? No. And just because it has not been done before does not mean it should not be tried. Besides, what makes you think Bush/Pelosi are not playing good cop/bad cop?
If the int'l community is 'snickering' (hearing voices, now?) it is because they see what a joke the Admin's foreign policy is.
Okay Tim, I realize it's pointless to see if you are capable of spouting anything other than what you read on the Daily Koz or HuffPo.
I'm trying to be a gentler, kinder Conan and give you credit for your diminished maturity level, but I see that was fruitless.
quote:
Originally posted by iplaw
BLAH BLAH BLAH . . . BTW, how are things going AOX?
So why did the WH not criticize the GOP Congressmen who also went? Looks like she just blazed some trails that the Bushiites do not like. Last nigh, Newt himself was on C-SPAN saying it was time to reconsider POTUS' title of Commander-in-Chief. Looks like it is time to upgrade our foreign policy, too.
You guys are wrong again. Not AOX, and have not read the HuffPo for bout a week, even missed Countdown and Hardball. No KOS here either. The praise for Pelosi comes from Drudge's Sunday night program and an instinctual distrust of this Admin.
(http://bigc3699.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/timmy.gif)
Sorry. I just couldn't resist any longer. I've had this over whelming urge for about a week now and I just couldn't hold it back any longer.
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So why did the WH not criticize the GOP Congressmen who also went? Looks like she just blazed some trails that the Bushiites do not like.
Forgive me for not buying in. Can you tell me exactly what it was that she accomplished? As far as I can tell she took a photo op with a terrorist. That's about it. Maybe you could tell us all what major accomplishment she acheived.
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You guys are wrong again. Not AOX, and have not read the HuffPo for bout a week, even missed Countdown and Hardball.
Sure AOX, whatever you say.
Well, even the Wa Po is talking about what a gaffe Pelosi made and differentiates between what the GOP mission was and her attempt at "Shuttle Diplomacy".
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040402306.html?sub=new
Sounds like she's pissed off Israel now for delivering a message she wasn't even authorized to give.
She's gone way, way out on a limb here, for nothing more than show-boating partisanship.
As a further embarrassment, earlier today she insulted the Saudis by raising the issue of why they don't have females in politics.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/05/AR2007040500317.html
And you are proud for her to represent our country?
Why not speak for Israel and just make up s**t? She's already speaking for us without worrying about whether she has the authority to or not.
Sorry for the dual post, didn't realize that Wavoka had already posted the article in another topic.
Well, she has clearly brought peace to the middle east, all by herself.
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Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Well, she has clearly brought peace to the middle east, all by herself.
[}:)][}:)][}:)]
Is that the sound of car bombs I hear in celebration of this new mid-east peace?
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Well, she has clearly brought peace to the middle east, all by herself.
You know, for as deluded as you are, you're at least good for a laugh now and then.
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Originally posted by cannon_fodder
(http://bigc3699.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/timmy.gif)
TIMMAY!!