As everyone knows who lives near the river/refineries/toxic waste injection well/west-side industries...sometimes the air stinks...and sometimes it burns your throat and makes your eyes water. For some reason, we are always reassured that it's "not a health problem."
I plugged my zipcode into Scorecard.org's Toxic Release Inventory, and was sort of shocked to see that Tulsa county ranks so poorly on the scale of known and suspected carcinogens and developmental and reproductive toxicants. Click here to see the charts (//%22http://www.scorecard.org/env-releases/ranking.tcl?fips_county_code=40143%22)
It reminded me of an article I read recently about an affordable air sampling method that communities can use to gather evidence about the chemicals they're breathing. Read more about the "Bucket Brigade (//%22http://www.bucketbrigade.net/article.php?list=type&type=9%22)" and another article about it on grist.org more info (//%22http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2003/07/23/the/%22)
I'm not an environmental expert, but I know that the air I breathe when I walk at the river is not the same air I breathe in the mountains of Colorado. I'm thinking that it may be time for us to bring the "Bucket Brigade" to Tulsa.
It's the same air. Just like Mt Dew contains filtered water. We just have a lot of "additives."
Do keep in mind that this study was done almost five years ago. However, at least Oklahoma County is worse.
Here's the rank breakdown for counties in Oklahoma:
1. MCCURTAIN 5,025,210
2. ROGERS 3,816,799
3. MAYES 3,488,436
4. GARFIELD 3,027,839
5. MAJOR 2,236,205
6. MUSKOGEE 1,063,548
7. KAY 876,914
8. OKLAHOMA 802,285
9. TULSA 709,410
It doesn't smell bad because it's good for you, that's for sure. But whatever...let's build million dollar condos and an island to overlook this great scenery.
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
As everyone knows who lives near the river/refineries/toxic waste injection well/west-side industries...sometimes the air stinks...and sometimes it burns your throat and makes your eyes water. For some reason, we are always reassured that it's "not a health problem."
I plugged my zipcode into Scorecard.org's Toxic Release Inventory, and was sort of shocked to see that Tulsa county ranks so poorly on the scale of known and suspected carcinogens and developmental and reproductive toxicants. Click here to see the charts (//%22http://www.scorecard.org/env-releases/ranking.tcl?fips_county_code=40143%22)
It reminded me of an article I read recently about an affordable air sampling method that communities can use to gather evidence about the chemicals they're breathing. Read more about the "Bucket Brigade (//%22http://www.bucketbrigade.net/article.php?list=type&type=9%22)" and another article about it on grist.org more info (//%22http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2003/07/23/the/%22)
I'm not an environmental expert, but I know that the air I breathe when I walk at the river is not the same air I breathe in the mountains of Colorado. I'm thinking that it may be time for us to bring the "Bucket Brigade" to Tulsa.
The test unit cost are very reasonable... What are the actual "Lab Analysis" costs..?
Seems like it would be well worth the investment to follow up on this.
I read, somewhere, the EPA does not do sampling at night.. Boy, left the door wide open didn't they.?
Sampling occurs 24 hours a day...some monitors in the Tulsa area take samples as often as three times per second.
The Oklahoma Department of Environmental Quality has the regulatory responsibility on air. They have been doing a special air study in the Tulsa area for a number of months now.
When they get some results, I will share them here.
If the refineries and related industry are violating air quality standards, what can be done to remedy the situation? I'm not asking about legal issues or fines, I mean what kind of design modifications can be done to produce less air toxins? Any environmental engineers out there?
If you can smell it the toxins are going into your body.
I found that at least three Tulsa neighborhoods have filed lawsuits against the refineries claiming damages to health including deaths. It would be interesting to see what information they were able to present to the courts.
Cleaning up the industry on the river would be the logical place to start any plans to revitalize downtown and river development.
Tulsa we love you but you stink.
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
As everyone knows who lives near the river/refineries/toxic waste injection well/west-side industries...sometimes the air stinks...and sometimes it burns your throat and makes your eyes water. For some reason, we are always reassured that it's "not a health problem."
It always amazes that people actually want to live by the river.Do people living around the river loose their sense of smell?Because you can literally smell how bad the river is.Every time you drive over over one of those bridges you have to wonder are people insane for wanting to develop the river.
I remember taking my nephew for some catch and release fishing a couple times last year around the pedestrian bridge and when the wind picked up you almost feel this faint spray with a chemical smell.
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrage
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
As everyone knows who lives near the river/refineries/toxic waste injection well/west-side industries...sometimes the air stinks...and sometimes it burns your throat and makes your eyes water. For some reason, we are always reassured that it's "not a health problem."
It always amazes that people actually want to live by the river.Do people living around the river loose their sense of smell?Because you can literally smell how bad the river is.Every time you drive over over one of those bridges you have to wonder are people insane for wanting to develop the river.
I remember taking my nephew for some catch and release fishing a couple times last year around the pedestrian bridge and when the wind picked up you almost feel this faint spray with a chemical smell.
What a crock. Your first time fishing? Fish stink, wet river banks stink, but I just spent two & 1/2 hours kayaking that area and didn't notice any smell, chemical or otherwise. And its a rainy day which usually increases the chances for stink. I saw smoke coming from the Texaco stacks which if the wind had been blowing from that direction would be detectable. But that is not the river. That is a refinery and those types of smells can even be detected at 41st & Sheridan where an aluminum smelter operation is active.
I really get tired of the "river stinks", "downtown sucks", "the arena will never make money", "big bad developers have ruined Tulsa" crap that people keep spouting here regardless of facts to the contrary. So fun to say, so stupid to hear. Get over it. The refineries make money, the arena will be completed and make money, downtown and river development WILL happen and WILL be successful using these big bad developers. But doubt you whiners will ever notice.
The river stinks. Get over it.
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
The river stinks. Get over it.
Stop calling yourself einstein. It doesn't fit. Cherry Street sucks. Its a recreation of what suburbans think is an acceptably safe trip north of 61st street. You and AA are in the game late David. Cherry street is the WalMart of midtown. Eventually it will mirror Brookside. You doubt that? Pull up some old pics from the late 70's early 80's when it really was walkable, funky and cool. Piggly Wiggly, Black Forest, Lincoln Elementary, Cherry Street Bakery, the laundramat, a real mexican restaurant and antique stores. You guys are being pushed out so that more Lime Green carwashes, insurance agents and plasticised Camilles' can serve the upper middle class. So long livability...hello faux Italianate. By the way, when the river is covered with refinery stink- so is Cherry Street. So get over it. Viva gentrification!
I call myself that, because it's my real name.
And I lived by the river, it stinks.
Cherry Street still has antique shops.
And no, Piggly Wiggly is not funky.
[}:)]
Slowly over time a new downtown forms around 61st and Yale. The old downtown consists of a few city blocks of historic Deco Towers surrounded by suburban-like development. The river is overbuilt with a cheapy amusement park that ages as well as the downtown pedestrian mall did. Tulsa continues to stink for another 83 years. No one notices.
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
I call myself that, because it's my real name.
And I lived by the river, it stinks.
Cherry Street still has antique shops.
And no, Piggly Wiggly is not funky.
[}:)]
change it. It just doesn't fit, bright guy. I doubt you're old enough to have shopped "the Pig" or even know where it was. Yeakey made that store work for years agains all odds. If he had held out a little longer it would be the bodega type store they are clamoring for downtown and wildly successful. Colony Antiques is left over from that period but you have no idea what happened to a very cool 'hood. One insight? Arnies left and moved to cool. That was the first step into mediocrity.
Everyone talks about livability/walkability now but that hood actually had it and we threw it away. Your kid could walk to school at Lincoln, you could shop for groceries at the pig, take a break at the best bakery in town, get your transmission fixed across the street, get your laundry done at Schwegmans, have lunch at Cardo's Cadillac with a friend, wash the car, pick up a bottle of wine, shop the rest of the afternoon at bead shops, antiques & such all within 1/2 mile. If the car wasn't ready you could ride the bus that ran frequently from downtown to the fairgrounds area. Then you could meet your husband for a beer at Arnies or check out the harleys at the Black Forest, stumble home and go to the church right next to it in the next morning. It was Bohemian, and yes funky.
The reason I blast it now is that remarks about the river being stinky display the weakness of our town. We can't appreciate each of its potential areas and support their quest for improvement. So the Cherry Street boosters (your province) whine about downtown, the river, the Pearl, the fairgrounds, the arena, whatever they can cleverly slam while Suburbanites have no sympathy for downtown development, Jenks wants to condemn Tulsa land to get their way and on, and on. No consensus because of narrow views means OKC keeps on plugging and we keep on getting plugged. It's simply childish to make these remarks and a waste of everyones energy to try to rebut every silly unsubstantiated slam.
The river doesn't stink Albert, the refineries stink and the prevailing winds decide where the stink blows. Anything other than that was probably your stinkin' socks.
Truth be told I'm not missing having to deal with sophomoric flaming that passes for discussion on these posts. 90% of it is rah-rah stuff that grows old.
I work about 6 blocks from the south end of the Sinclair refinery and I have to say I rarely smell anything objectionable coming from the north when the wind is blowing from that direction. I think saying the refineries stink all the time is an over-generalization.
There would be more potential for stench coming from meth labs in Garden City.
My brother lived at River House near the 21st St. bridge and I don't recall anything wafting over there except for an occasional odor from a refinery.
Walking along the trails, yes, you do get some smell from wet mud, but that's the case at any lake or river you can visit around the country.
Waterboy- Do you remember the "Open Door Arts Cooperative" that used to be across the side street from where the Full Moon is now? That was cool funky Bohemian. Speaking of which, what used to be in the Full Moon space?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I work about 6 blocks from the south end of the Sinclair refinery and I have to say I rarely smell anything objectionable coming from the north when the wind is blowing from that direction. I think saying the refineries stink all the time is an over-generalization.
There would be more potential for stench coming from meth labs in Garden City.
My brother lived at River House near the 21st St. bridge and I don't recall anything wafting over there except for an occasional odor from a refinery.
Walking along the trails, yes, you do get some smell from wet mud, but that's the case at any lake or river you can visit around the country.
Waterboy- Do you remember the "Open Door Arts Cooperative" that used to be across the side street from where the Full Moon is now? That was cool funky Bohemian. Speaking of which, what used to be in the Full Moon space?
Sorry, I don't remember the Cooperative location. But I do remember the Full Moon in a few different uses. One was a mechanic garage of some sort, then a newpaper I believe called the "Oily Town Rag" and then a lovely little tea garden kind of restaurant for elegant women. Do you remember Cardo's Cadillac and their great spicy mexican?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Waterboy- Do you remember the "Open Door Arts Cooperative" that used to be across the side street from where the Full Moon is now? That was cool funky Bohemian. Speaking of which, what used to be in the Full Moon space?
I remember the Open Door--great place to hang out. Since they didn't serve alcohol, it was one of the few places we could hang out in highschool. We also rented it out occassionally for parties.
What was the name of the funky antique clothing store? The spectrum?
Back on topic--Waterboy, while there are many great things about Tulsa, I think it is ok to admit that sometimes the refineries on the river stink. There are days when I get headaches from the smell of something burning. I think it is better to admit this, and try to resolve it, then to pretend it doesn't exist.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
What a crock. Your first time fishing? Fish stink, wet river banks stink, but I just spent two & 1/2 hours kayaking that area and didn't notice any smell, chemical or otherwise. And its a rainy day which usually increases the chances for stink. I saw smoke coming from the Texaco stacks which if the wind had been blowing from that direction would be detectable. But that is not the river. That is a refinery and those types of smells can even be detected at 41st & Sheridan where an aluminum smelter operation is active.
I really get tired of the "river stinks", "downtown sucks", "the arena will never make money", "big bad developers have ruined Tulsa" crap that people keep spouting here regardless of facts to the contrary. So fun to say, so stupid to hear. Get over it. The refineries make money, the arena will be completed and make money, downtown and river development WILL happen and WILL be successful using these big bad developers. But doubt you whiners will ever notice.
A.The river does stink.And I know what fish smell like.Have you ever noticed any normal people swimming in the river or eating fish from the river?If the river is clean please tell me why have two little dirt mound islands have been put in the river and nobody has done any thing to them?If you can't smell the stench from the river your sense of smell is obviously impaired.
B.Downtown does sucks.It is a bum magnet and paid parking sucks.Downtown are parking lot/garage eyesore.Downtown is a old blind arthritic toothless dog on terminal cancer that needs to be put out of it's misery.The only thing worth going to downtown for is Cains Ballroom,Brady Theater ,Mexicali Border Cafe,Spaghetti Warehouse and Home Depot. I am sure those places can be relocated to other parts of Tulsa or substitutions for those places can already be found elsewhere in Tulsa.Downtown will never ever see any of it's old glory days.If you want to ruin 71st and memorial or any other popular part of town just add soup kitchens and other bum magnets and make all the lots paid parking lots and add a bunch of parking garages.
The Full Moon....Was Cherries at one time...And also The Black Forrest....
PM, I want to emphasize the difference between the smell of the refineries, and the natural smell of a body of water. People reference the area as "the river" then complain about the stink, which is petro-chemical.
James, do some research. I have never met a "normal" person, but lots of people have and do swim in the river and eat the fish. They show no ill effects from it. Bottom feeders are suspect in any body of water though. I spent much of three summers waist deep in this river and never even got a rash. But I suspect when you say river you refer to what you see around Zink lake to Jenks. When I say river, I refer to Keystone Dam down to Zink Lake.
Zink lake suffers from fertilizer runoff from area neighborhoods and a high concentration of animal feces. Mostly geese droppings. One goose produces 1lb per day of droppings. Health Dept. used to monitor the river at Zink, now I think the ODEQ does it. Neither showed high amounts of pollution from reports I saw. Generally the river is in good shape but worse around Tulsa because of the low water dam slowing its movement.
The two islands are also public record. They have been off limits most of their life because they are a habitat for endangered least terns. Recently it was made public by The Channels what many of us knew for years. The islands are man-made "caps" that cover barrels of refinery waste. There is no indication of leakage, which would have affected the geeses, terns, foxes, beavers and fish that populate the area. However, it should be cleaned up.
Nature stinks. When the water level drops on any body of water, the remaining biologicals start to decay and gassify. It doesn't bother me or most fishermen any more than manure bothers a farmer, but city folks aren't familiar with nature. So, the river stinks ergo the river is polluted ergo dangerous.
As a post script, I heard a young woman complaining to her boyfriend on the river path early this spring that the river was really stinky. Her boyfriend couldn't smell it nor could I. The river was full. Turns out she was under one of the blooming ornamental trees that indeed was quite stinky. She represents yet another convert to the brigade of city folks who can't tell the difference.