I apologize if this has been discussed before. I did a search and did not see this topic.
I just moved here with my family (wife, 3 and 6 year olds). My wife is from here (Union schools)and her family is still here. My wife and her family all say Tulsa schools are bad but they cannot tell me why.
I would like to live in town in an older, established neighborhood with some character and convenience, such as 61st and Sheridan area, Brookside, Southern Hills, etc. The family says Broken Arrow or Jenks.
Can anyone here give me their opinion or experiences on either side. Thanks.
Though it's strangely popular to say so, Tulsa Public Schools are not bad. In fact, many schools within the TPS system are quite good, and a few (Booker T. Washington) are world class.
It is true that TPS educates more poor students, and more students who aren't prepared for learning because of their home environments. That is not the same thing as the suggestion that TPS is a bad school district.
I was raised in union which covers parts of Tulsa and BA. Some say TPS has some of the best schools and some say they have the worst. I think both may be right. What Union, BA, and Jenks have is a generally wealthier tax base and student base. That alone doesn't make a school better, but it makes it easier to afford.
Personally, I can't stand to live in any of the suburbs. Too "stepford wives" for me.
I believe that there is much misinformation that gets passed along regarding Tulsa Public Schools. Much of that stems from improper comparisons, and not looking at the big picture. Tulsa has almost 60 elementary schools, some of which are excellent, and some of which are lousy. Some of that is a result of the circumstances of its location and students. Jenks has only 3 elementary schools; I believe Union has around the same. I don't think its appropriate to compare the entire school districts to eachother, as it fails to take into count that they serve different populations. On the other hand, if you compare the best schools within TPS to Jenks or Union, I believe they would prove equal if not better. Among elementary schools, Carnegie, Lee, Elliot, Eisenhower, & Mayo tend to be ranked among the best for TPS. In Jenks, Southeast is usually cited as the best. If you compare test scores of Carnegie to Jenks SE, for example, you will find that Carnegie scores are comparable. Also, Carnegie has a higher percentage of teacher's with masters. My concern with Jenks in particular is the size of the schools.
From what I have heard, the same is true at middle & high school levels. In fact, I have heard that Union has had trouble with gangs. I am sure that TPS has similar problems in some of its schools. Ultimately, you cannot simply look at the school districts. Before you buy a home, look at the specific schools that your child will attend. Keeping in mind that TPS will allow you to transfer to any school that has space.
Union has 12 elementary schools and are preparing to build # 13 at the land behind the St Francis Heart Hospital. Land is owned by Union and the money to build was just passed on Feb 14th.
Union has 12 elementary schools, TPS has 58. TPS is the largest district in oklahoma so yeah, it's hard to say the whole district is one way or the other. You can transfer (if they have space) within the district freely, except for the magnet schools, which have special requirements.
My son is in Tulsa Public Schools. He was going to the TU school but my wife and I didnt feel the cost of private school was worth it for a younger child.
I am very pleased thus far with TPS. He is finishing up his second year at TPS and we are satisfied with his learning, facilities, and atmosphere. We live in near 28th and Harvard and he goes to Patrick Henry.
I went to private schools for most of my education and I believe his quality of education approaches mine (facilities are nicer!).
In my most humble of opinions, the "best schools" in Tulsa are those with the most high profile football programs. Union, Jenks, and Broken Arrow are the football power houses in the area and are also rumored to be the best schools. Could just be a coincidence... but it is true that those three are the top football schools in the area if not the state/region.
To be sure, I have never heard that they have poor educational track records... just sayin' great football certainly doesnt hurt your appeal in Tulsa.
I also am glad to live in midtown, I highly encourage you to look around the area before moving to another subdivision. I can walk to 10+ restaurants, a couple bars, a grocery store, movie place... 5 minutes from downtown, 5 minutes from TU, 10 minutes from the airport, 5 minutes from a mall. I'll probably never leave midtown.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
My son is in Tulsa Public Schools. He was going to the TU school but my wife and I didnt feel the cost of private school was worth it for a younger child.
I am very pleased thus far with TPS. He is finishing up his second year at TPS and we are satisfied with his learning, facilities, and atmosphere. We live in near 28th and Harvard and he goes to Patrick Henry.
I went to private schools for most of my education and I believe his quality of education approaches mine (facilities are nicer!).
In my most humble of opinions, the "best schools" in Tulsa are those with the most high profile football programs. Union, Jenks, and Broken Arrow are the football power houses in the area and are also rumored to be the best schools. Could just be a coincidence... but it is true that those three are the top football schools in the area if not the state/region.
To be sure, I have never heard that they have poor educational track records... just sayin' great football certainly doesnt hurt your appeal in Tulsa.
I also am glad to live in midtown, I highly encourage you to look around the area before moving to another subdivision. I can walk to 10+ restaurants, a couple bars, a grocery store, movie place... 5 minutes from downtown, 5 minutes from TU, 10 minutes from the airport, 5 minutes from a mall. I'll probably never leave midtown.
if you want your kid to have consistent access to newer facilities and learning tools, stay in Union or move to Jenks. for that matter Bixby is pretty up and coming and they dont have what I would call a good football team.
i would agree with the Union problem with gangs though because their district NE corner serves parts of east Tulsa. i would consider the problems pretty lame though compared to gang problems in some TPS schools.
Thanks for your well thought out and informative resonses.
From what I gather, the "Tulsa schools are bad" opinions I hear do not apply across the board. We currently live in far east BA (just moved here, renting a house until we decide where to put down roots) and my 6yo goes to Jenks west because my wife works there. Obviously she is biased, but I haven't bought into the Jenks thing yet. Property taxes are higher and I have not been convinced it is worth it.
I'm not impressed with BA and the 2000 student high school for 11th and 12th grades so it is out of the question for the future. I'm a "city" kind of guy and looking for some ammo to fight the in laws.
I'll continue to do my due diligence. Thanks again for your input and I look forward to learning more about Tulsa.
BTW, what's up with the grocery tax?
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
Thanks for your well thought out and informative resonses.
Property taxes are higher and I have not been convinced it is worth it.
where did you hear that? When we were looking at houses, everything was higher in BA tax wise. Thats why we settled in Jenks.
oh and when the husband fights his inlaws he always loses.
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
BTW, what's up with the grocery tax?
In my opinion, Tulsa public schools have no more problems on a per capita basis than Jenks, Union, BA, just more students and school buildings so more publicized "problems." The suburban school districs are no saints and have had the same problems as TPS has had in the past. Even private schools are not totally safe havens for kids, although they like to picture themselves as such.
The grocery tax - Oklahoma applies sales taxes to most all goods that are sold in the state, clothing and groceries included. Some items are exempt such as prescription drugs and motor vehicles, but vehicles have their own "excise" taxes. Services, such as repair shops, doctors, lawyers, etc. are not subject to sales taxes, YET. Oklahoma real estate taxes are relatively low, and the state income tax is pretty low too. There are no county or city income taxes.
Government is going to get the money it wants some way, either sales, property, income taxes, use taxes, license fees, whatever. On the whole, Oklahoma is probably somewhere in the middle of all states on a total tax burden basis. I too find sales tax on groceries rather odious, as it is very regressive and hurts the poor the most. But you can bet that if they make groceries exempt from tax, some other new tax will most certainly take its place.
Ok, I got my helment on so you all can start the throwing of the rocks. [B)]
I would suggest Jenks, Broken Arrow or Owasso.
All 3 have good school systems. Jenks is the wealthy suburb, Broken Arrow has the most to offer and Owasso is absolutely great for a smaller school system.
jmo [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
Ok, I got my helment on so you all can start the throwing of the rocks. [B)]
I would suggest Jenks, Broken Arrow or Owasso.
All 3 have good school systems. Jenks is the wealthy suburb, Broken Arrow has the most to offer and Owasso is absolutely great for a smaller school system.
jmo [:)]
No rocks from me, your opinions are just as valid as mine. I am a product of TulsaPS; I attended TulsaPS from 1962-1975. John Paul Jones K-6 (now closed), Eli Whitney Jr. High 7-9, and Nathan Hale High 10-12. I guess my opinions are slightly biased. I think I received a top notch education here, but I know times and society have changed.
From what I have read, it seems TulsaPS is trying to turn each high school into a "magnet" school of sorts, with different schools specializing in a particular area of career interest. For example, Nathan Hale HS is developing special courses in home economics/cooking/restaurant management. Other high schools are offering specialized courses in other career areas. If your child expresses a particular career ambition, it may be beneficial to investigate each individual high school and their course offerings, as the old-fashioned generic high school (in the Tulsa district) seems to be a thing of the past.
No rocks from me either--if I sounded as though I was putting down the other school districts, that was not my intention. There's good & bad in all school districts. Bottom line, live where you feel most comfortable; don't let the schools be the deciding voice, because you can find satisfactory schools at any location. By the way, the fact that you are paying that much attention to the school systems says that you & your family value education--that right there is the key to your child's success more so than any other factor.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
Ok, I got my helment on so you all can start the throwing of the rocks. [B)]
I would suggest Jenks, Broken Arrow or Owasso.
All 3 have good school systems. Jenks is the wealthy suburb, Broken Arrow has the most to offer and Owasso is absolutely great for a smaller school system.
jmo [:)]
No rocks from me, your opinions are just as valid as mine. I am a product of TulsaPS; I attended TulsaPS from 1962-1975, so I guess my opinions are slightly biased. I think I received a top notch education here, but I know times and society have changed.
From what I have read, it seems TulsaPS is trying to turn each high school into a "magnet" school of sorts, with different schools specializing in a particular area of career interest. For example, Nathan Hale HS is developing special courses in home economics/cooking/restaurant management. Other high schools are offering specialized courses in other career areas. If your child expresses a particular career ambition, it may be beneficial to investigate each individual high school and their course offerings, as the old-fashioned generic high school (in the Tulsa district) seems to be a thing of the past.
magnet schools are a failure, little rock does that...
As a product of Jenks Public Schools I can honestly say I would never subject my own childred to that school district. I believe the district is over-hyped academically and the focus on athletics is obsessive and creates an unbalanced environment. I actually moved to the Northeast to finish my high school career after going to Jenks since Kindergarten and I was at least a good year behind my counterparts academically in that part of the country.
The focus at Jenks is money and status (oh yeah, and football). For years it struggled as a small town school district with growing pains and as the wealthy suburbanites moved in and changed the landscape forever, the divide between the haves and the have-nots widened and tensions mounted. It is a school where kids driving Jaguars look down their noses at working class kids from the 'wrong side of the river'. If you have ever seen 'The Outsiders', that story could have been written about Jenks. I remember in 8th grade we had to have a school assembly to deal with discrimination and bullying against kids that weren't as priveledged and who wore the wrong kind of clothes. Socially it is exclusionist, elitist and as snobby as it gets. Academicaly I certinly was not impressed (the wrestling coach taught english!) but if you are all about sports then it's very competitive- in every sense of the word.
One positive about Jenks are the extra curricular activities offered. It has top-rated drama, theater, and choir departments and of course sports sports sports.
I feel the negative and elitist social environment at Jenks and its long term implications on the social adjustment of children far outweighs any positives the school might have.
TPS apparently has some excellent primary schools, and Washington H.S. is tops academically and is far more socially, economically and ethnically mixed than any of the suburb schools.
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
I feel the negative and elitist social environment at Jenks and its long term implications on the social adjustment of children far outweighs any positives the school might have.
TPS apparently has some excellent primary schools, and Washington H.S. is tops academically and is far more socially, economically and ethnically mixed than any of the suburb schools.
I can't speak from experience but only as an outsider from the Tulsa school district, but my personal perceptions of the Jenks schools, and Union too for that matter, are much the same as you have described.
I remember when I was in high school at Nathan Hale in the early 1970s, we all thought the kids from Edison and Memorial were a bunch of rich, stuck-up snobs. The kids at Rogers and East Central probably thought the same thing about us at Nathan Hale! The kids at Washington, McLain, Central & Webster, we thought they were from another planet! There was also Charles Mason High School at the time, but it was so new then that we had no opinions formed about them. Jenks, Union, Owasso, Bixby, they were just small-town hicks to us then, not even in our league, or state football class (4A at that time). Economic/social class will always be on the minds and influence the behavior of teenagers.
Any TulsaNow members out there that attended Mason High School? As I recall, it only existed for about 4-5 years then the building was sold off (to the Tulsa Police Dept.?)
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
BTW, what's up with the grocery tax?
In my opinion, Tulsa public schools have no more problems on a per capita basis than Jenks, Union, BA, just more students and school buildings so more publicized "problems." The suburban school districs are no saints and have had the same problems as TPS has had in the past. Even private schools are not totally safe havens for kids, although they like to picture themselves as such.
The grocery tax - Oklahoma applies sales taxes to most all goods that are sold in the state, clothing and groceries included. Some items are exempt such as prescription drugs and motor vehicles, but vehicles have their own "excise" taxes. Services, such as repair shops, doctors, lawyers, etc. are not subject to sales taxes, YET. Oklahoma real estate taxes are relatively low, and the state income tax is pretty low too. There are no county or city income taxes.
Government is going to get the money it wants some way, either sales, property, income taxes, use taxes, license fees, whatever. On the whole, Oklahoma is probably somewhere in the middle of all states on a total tax burden basis. I too find sales tax on groceries rather odious, as it is very regressive and hurts the poor the most. But you can bet that if they make groceries exempt from tax, some other new tax will most certainly take its place.
My wife tried to make the same argument about Oklahoma being cheaper (we moved here from Fort Worth). Our property tax was $5200 / yr on a $190k house. While the same house in TPS will have a $1800 or so tax, I have never paid a state income tax in my life. If you make $100k / yr that eats up the the "savings". And don't get me started on the $80 in tolls I pay each month [V]
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
Thanks for your well thought out and informative resonses.
Property taxes are higher and I have not been convinced it is worth it.
where did you hear that? When we were looking at houses, everything was higher in BA tax wise. Thats why we settled in Jenks.
oh and when the husband fights his inlaws he always loses.
I was comparing TPS to Jenks.
QuoteOriginally posted by Porky
Ok, I got my helment on so you all can start the throwing of the rocks. [B)]
I would suggest Jenks, Broken Arrow or Owasso.
All 3 have good school systems. Jenks is the wealthy suburb, Broken Arrow has the most to offer and Owasso is absolutely great for a smaller school system.
jmo [:)Quote
I don't dispute that all three have good school systems but WHAT makes them better than TPS? How does BA have the most to offer when the High School has 2000 students in 2 grades?
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
As a product of Jenks Public Schools I can honestly say I would never subject my own childred to that school district. I believe the district is over-hyped academically and the focus on athletics is obsessive and creates an unbalanced environment. I actually moved to the Northeast to finish my high school career after going to Jenks since Kindergarten and I was at least a good year behind my counterparts academically in that part of the country.
The focus at Jenks is money and status (oh yeah, and football). For years it struggled as a small town school district with growing pains and as the wealthy suburbanites moved in and changed the landscape forever, the divide between the haves and the have-nots widened and tensions mounted. It is a school where kids driving Jaguars look down their noses at working class kids from the 'wrong side of the river'. If you have ever seen 'The Outsiders', that story could have been written about Jenks. I remember in 8th grade we had to have a school assembly to deal with discrimination and bullying against kids that weren't as priveledged and who wore the wrong kind of clothes. Socially it is exclusionist, elitist and as snobby as it gets. Academicaly I certinly was not impressed (the wrestling coach taught english!) but if you are all about sports then it's very competitive- in every sense of the word.
One positive about Jenks are the extra curricular activities offered. It has top-rated drama, theater, and choir departments and of course sports sports sports.
I feel the negative and elitist social environment at Jenks and its long term implications on the social adjustment of children far outweighs any positives the school might have.
TPS apparently has some excellent primary schools, and Washington H.S. is tops academically and is far more socially, economically and ethnically mixed than any of the suburb schools.
Good ammo. Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
BTW, what's up with the grocery tax?
In my opinion, Tulsa public schools have no more problems on a per capita basis than Jenks, Union, BA, just more students and school buildings so more publicized "problems." The suburban school districs are no saints and have had the same problems as TPS has had in the past. Even private schools are not totally safe havens for kids, although they like to picture themselves as such.
The grocery tax - Oklahoma applies sales taxes to most all goods that are sold in the state, clothing and groceries included. Some items are exempt such as prescription drugs and motor vehicles, but vehicles have their own "excise" taxes. Services, such as repair shops, doctors, lawyers, etc. are not subject to sales taxes, YET. Oklahoma real estate taxes are relatively low, and the state income tax is pretty low too. There are no county or city income taxes.
Government is going to get the money it wants some way, either sales, property, income taxes, use taxes, license fees, whatever. On the whole, Oklahoma is probably somewhere in the middle of all states on a total tax burden basis. I too find sales tax on groceries rather odious, as it is very regressive and hurts the poor the most. But you can bet that if they make groceries exempt from tax, some other new tax will most certainly take its place.
My wife tried to make the same argument about Oklahoma being cheaper (we moved here from Fort Worth). Our property tax was $5200 / yr on a $190k house. While the same house in TPS will have a $1800 or so tax, I have never paid a state income tax in my life. If you make $100k / yr that eats up the the "savings". And don't get me started on the $80 in tolls I pay each month [V]
Oklahoma is not necesarily cheaper in total taxes, about in the median for total tax burden of all 50 states. Texas has no income tax, OK does. Texas has exhorbitant property tax, OK has cheap property tax. Six of one, half dozen of another. Government is going to get its funding, the only difference is in the methods.
Oklahoma recently lowered the top state income tax rates, and bills are in the legislature to further decrease the top tax rate to the 5.5% range. I personally question this, because I belive that progressive income taxes are the fairest form of all taxation. But just to let you know...
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
Thanks for your well thought out and informative resonses.
Property taxes are higher and I have not been convinced it is worth it.
where did you hear that? When we were looking at houses, everything was higher in BA tax wise. Thats why we settled in Jenks.
oh and when the husband fights his inlaws he always loses.
I was comparing TPS to Jenks.
oh well no kidding. and compare infrastructure in the Jenks district compared to tps.
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
As a product of Jenks Public Schools I can honestly say I would never subject my own childred to that school district. I believe the district is over-hyped academically and the focus on athletics is obsessive and creates an unbalanced environment. I actually moved to the Northeast to finish my high school career after going to Jenks since Kindergarten and I was at least a good year behind my counterparts academically in that part of the country.
The focus at Jenks is money and status (oh yeah, and football). For years it struggled as a small town school district with growing pains and as the wealthy suburbanites moved in and changed the landscape forever, the divide between the haves and the have-nots widened and tensions mounted. It is a school where kids driving Jaguars look down their noses at working class kids from the 'wrong side of the river'. If you have ever seen 'The Outsiders', that story could have been written about Jenks. I remember in 8th grade we had to have a school assembly to deal with discrimination and bullying against kids that weren't as priveledged and who wore the wrong kind of clothes. Socially it is exclusionist, elitist and as snobby as it gets. Academicaly I certinly was not impressed (the wrestling coach taught english!) but if you are all about sports then it's very competitive- in every sense of the word.
One positive about Jenks are the extra curricular activities offered. It has top-rated drama, theater, and choir departments and of course sports sports sports.
I feel the negative and elitist social environment at Jenks and its long term implications on the social adjustment of children far outweighs any positives the school might have.
TPS apparently has some excellent primary schools, and Washington H.S. is tops academically and is far more socially, economically and ethnically mixed than any of the suburb schools.
sounds like you were the dorky outcast who always dressed in black.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
As a product of Jenks Public Schools I can honestly say I would never subject my own childred to that school district. I believe the district is over-hyped academically and the focus on athletics is obsessive and creates an unbalanced environment. I actually moved to the Northeast to finish my high school career after going to Jenks since Kindergarten and I was at least a good year behind my counterparts academically in that part of the country.
The focus at Jenks is money and status (oh yeah, and football). For years it struggled as a small town school district with growing pains and as the wealthy suburbanites moved in and changed the landscape forever, the divide between the haves and the have-nots widened and tensions mounted. It is a school where kids driving Jaguars look down their noses at working class kids from the 'wrong side of the river'. If you have ever seen 'The Outsiders', that story could have been written about Jenks. I remember in 8th grade we had to have a school assembly to deal with discrimination and bullying against kids that weren't as priveledged and who wore the wrong kind of clothes. Socially it is exclusionist, elitist and as snobby as it gets. Academicaly I certinly was not impressed (the wrestling coach taught english!) but if you are all about sports then it's very competitive- in every sense of the word.
One positive about Jenks are the extra curricular activities offered. It has top-rated drama, theater, and choir departments and of course sports sports sports.
I feel the negative and elitist social environment at Jenks and its long term implications on the social adjustment of children far outweighs any positives the school might have.
TPS apparently has some excellent primary schools, and Washington H.S. is tops academically and is far more socially, economically and ethnically mixed than any of the suburb schools.
sounds like you were the dorky outcast who always dressed in black.
We can always count on you for intelligent, well thought out replies.
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
I don't dispute that all three have good school systems but WHAT makes them better than TPS? How does BA have the most to offer when the High School has 2000 students in 2 grades?
The schools are newer and safer. And when I say safer I'm not referring to all TPS. Also the teaching staff and the administrators are much better (overall) imo.
Other then Union (which is really BA) I haven't seen any new growth in schools within Tulsa. I think Memorial, Nathan Hale and BookerT are all good schools but they don't make up the overall picture of TPS.
Why can't TPS do what they did with BookerT to all of their High Schools? But instead they provide outdated schools like Rogers and gang ridden schools like McLain or what ever they call it now.
I see no problem with BA having that many students as long as they keep the classes small enough where a student can learn, which they do very well.
If I have a gripe with the TPS, it actually isn't with them but the city of Tulsa instead. How can we build an arena and spend almost $200 Million on it, how can they say we need a new city hall and presto they have it? And then not find away to build proper schools for the students in Tulsa. Just doesn't seem right to me. jmo
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
As a product of Jenks Public Schools I can honestly say I would never subject my own childred to that school district. I believe the district is over-hyped academically and the focus on athletics is obsessive and creates an unbalanced environment. I actually moved to the Northeast to finish my high school career after going to Jenks since Kindergarten and I was at least a good year behind my counterparts academically in that part of the country.
The focus at Jenks is money and status (oh yeah, and football). For years it struggled as a small town school district with growing pains and as the wealthy suburbanites moved in and changed the landscape forever, the divide between the haves and the have-nots widened and tensions mounted. It is a school where kids driving Jaguars look down their noses at working class kids from the 'wrong side of the river'. If you have ever seen 'The Outsiders', that story could have been written about Jenks. I remember in 8th grade we had to have a school assembly to deal with discrimination and bullying against kids that weren't as priveledged and who wore the wrong kind of clothes. Socially it is exclusionist, elitist and as snobby as it gets. Academicaly I certinly was not impressed (the wrestling coach taught english!) but if you are all about sports then it's very competitive- in every sense of the word.
One positive about Jenks are the extra curricular activities offered. It has top-rated drama, theater, and choir departments and of course sports sports sports.
I feel the negative and elitist social environment at Jenks and its long term implications on the social adjustment of children far outweighs any positives the school might have.
TPS apparently has some excellent primary schools, and Washington H.S. is tops academically and is far more socially, economically and ethnically mixed than any of the suburb schools.
When we first moved here we lived in the Jenks SD. My daughter went to the SE school for K and 1st grade. She absolutely hated it. Mid year during first year we were planning on buying a house somewhere and were looking. Then came the final straw. We had a meeting with the teacher and academically our daughter did great! However, she was not as socialable as the other kids. Because of that they wanted to keep her back. Mid year they were telling us this. They made no attempt to even suggest ways that we could help her with her social skills. After I voiced my objection and dissatisfaction with how they were handling this, we ended up moving to the Union Schools by March and immediately transferred her. The teachers at Union were told about her questionable "social skills" and less then a month at their school they did not know what they hell the people at Jenks were talking about. They said that she was very socialable and was still doing well in school. To this day we still live in the Union Schools and I have absolutely enjoyed having my daughter going there. She loves it and has made a ton of friends. Jenks had a father program that I really liked. But as for that, I have nothing good to say about the Jenks Schools.
They may be a good school. But our experience with them was not a good one.
quote:
Originally posted by DM
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
As a product of Jenks Public Schools I can honestly say I would never subject my own childred to that school district. I believe the district is over-hyped academically and the focus on athletics is obsessive and creates an unbalanced environment. I actually moved to the Northeast to finish my high school career after going to Jenks since Kindergarten and I was at least a good year behind my counterparts academically in that part of the country.
The focus at Jenks is money and status (oh yeah, and football). For years it struggled as a small town school district with growing pains and as the wealthy suburbanites moved in and changed the landscape forever, the divide between the haves and the have-nots widened and tensions mounted. It is a school where kids driving Jaguars look down their noses at working class kids from the 'wrong side of the river'. If you have ever seen 'The Outsiders', that story could have been written about Jenks. I remember in 8th grade we had to have a school assembly to deal with discrimination and bullying against kids that weren't as priveledged and who wore the wrong kind of clothes. Socially it is exclusionist, elitist and as snobby as it gets. Academicaly I certinly was not impressed (the wrestling coach taught english!) but if you are all about sports then it's very competitive- in every sense of the word.
One positive about Jenks are the extra curricular activities offered. It has top-rated drama, theater, and choir departments and of course sports sports sports.
I feel the negative and elitist social environment at Jenks and its long term implications on the social adjustment of children far outweighs any positives the school might have.
TPS apparently has some excellent primary schools, and Washington H.S. is tops academically and is far more socially, economically and ethnically mixed than any of the suburb schools.
When we first moved here we lived in the Jenks SD. My daughter went to the SE school for K and 1st grade. She absolutely hated it. Mid year during first year we were planning on buying a house somewhere and were looking. Then came the final straw. We had a meeting with the teacher and academically our daughter did great! However, she was not as socialable as the other kids. Because of that they wanted to keep her back. Mid year they were telling us this. They made no attempt to even suggest ways that we could help her with her social skills. After I voiced my objection and dissatisfaction with how they were handling this, we ended up moving to the Union Schools by March and immediately transferred her. The teachers at Union were told about her questionable "social skills" and less then a month at their school they did not know what they hell the people at Jenks were talking about. They said that she was very socialable and was still doing well in school. To this day we still live in the Union Schools and I have absolutely enjoyed having my daughter going there. She loves it and has made a ton of friends. Jenks had a father program that I really liked. But as for that, I have nothing good to say about the Jenks Schools.
They may be a good school. But our experience with them was not a good one.
There are many families with similar experiences with the Jenks faculty and administration. My brother suffers from Autism, (which was not diagnosed until later when he was transferred to a school that actually cared about his well being) and when he was in Jr High at Jenks, one of his teachers was so frustrated by his "social skills" she actually made the entire class 'mock' him and laugh at him. This was her ignorant way of thinking that she could 'cure' him. Of course when my parents found out and were rightfully outraged, the administration at Jenks simply labeled my parents as 'overprotective' and did nothing.
I am sad to hear it sounds like not much has changed. Jenks is a Goliath of a school system and is run like a factory- spewing out kids with very little regard for the individual.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
Thanks for your well thought out and informative resonses.
Property taxes are higher and I have not been convinced it is worth it.
where did you hear that? When we were looking at houses, everything was higher in BA tax wise. Thats why we settled in Jenks.
oh and when the husband fights his inlaws he always loses.
I was comparing TPS to Jenks.
oh well no kidding. and compare infrastructure in the Jenks district compared to tps.
I'm new here. Please elaborate. What would I be getting for my additional tax dollars in Jenks and how does it benefit me compared to TPS?
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
I don't dispute that all three have good school systems but WHAT makes them better than TPS? How does BA have the most to offer when the High School has 2000 students in 2 grades?
The schools are newer and safer. And when I say safer I'm not referring to all TPS. Also the teaching staff and the administrators are much better (overall) imo.
Other then Union (which is really BA) I haven't seen any new growth in schools within Tulsa. I think Memorial, Nathan Hale and BookerT are all good schools but they don't make up the overall picture of TPS.
Why can't TPS do what they did with BookerT to all of their High Schools? But instead they provide outdated schools like Rogers and gang ridden schools like McLain or what ever they call it now.
I see no problem with BA having that many students as long as they keep the classes small enough where a student can learn, which they do very well.
If I have a gripe with the TPS, it actually isn't with them but the city of Tulsa instead. How can we build an arena and spend almost $200 Million on it, how can they say we need a new city hall and presto they have it? And then not find away to build proper schools for the students in Tulsa. Just doesn't seem right to me. jmo
Thanks for your response. So I guess if I choose Memorial, Booker T or the Brookside school (can't remember the name) districts I have some ammo to support me against living in BA or Jenks.
i think you may be trying to hard to win against the in laws, and you can never win that battle.
People always defend the Tulsa School District by pointing to Booker T. Washington. BTW is a great school but that is because it is a magnet school. BTW picks the children they want to attend their school. It is quite competitive to get in. Here is the minimum criteria (and they do mean minimum)
Minimum criteria for admission are as follows:*
*NOTE: Admission teams shall have the authority to admit a maximum of 10% of any entering class who are TPS residents and not otherwise qualified. These admissions decisions are to be based upon extenuating circumstances or conditions as determined by the admission teams and approved by the principal.
A. The successful completion of a middle school program through eighth grade or its equivalent.
B. Superb attendance: No more than 5 absences during the application year and no more than 10 absences during the year immediately prior to the application year.
(NOTE: Students with medically documented chronic/serious illnesses or other extenuating circumstances leading to excessive absences may be considered on a case-by-case basis. Such documentation must be provided in writing by the parents/guardians and included with the application packet.)
C. Excellent behavior: Suspensions out of school during the application year or during the year immediately prior to the application year may preclude consideration for admission.
D. Scores at the thirty-fifth percentile or above on both the reading and mathematics components of the most current standardized academic measurements typically available (or their equivalents) AND grade point averages at or above 2.50 on a 4.00 scale for the first semester of the application year and for the year immediately preceding the application year.
5. An Admission Recommendation Form prepared and signed by a minimum of three (3) faculty/staff at the applicant's current or most recent school who have knowledge of the applicant's potential for success.
If your child is not chosen to attend BTW then you need to consult the Tulsa Public School boundary map to see what school your child will attend. I would really do my homework on the other schools before you move into the district assuming that your child will be admitted into BTW.
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
Thanks for your response. So I guess if I choose Memorial, Booker T or the Brookside school (can't remember the name) districts I have some ammo to support me against living in BA or Jenks.
I think you would be on equal basis with them. Not sure what school your referring to as Brookside however.
One of the main reasons I don't live in Tulsa anymore is the cost. You can spend $150,000 for an old home that needs repair in midtown or you can buy a beautiful new home in the suburbs for the same price or less. I'd say the choice is all up to you. [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
i think you may be trying to hard to win against the in laws, and you can never win that battle.
Thanks to the great info I have received from you guys I will have no problem living in TPS if that is the best thing for us. It seems to be a six of one / half a dozen of another kind of thing. Maybe I have overstated the amount of influence the in laws would have. Not a problem.
Maybe you need some more scene control [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
Thanks for your response. So I guess if I choose Memorial, Booker T or the Brookside school (can't remember the name) districts I have some ammo to support me against living in BA or Jenks.
I think you would be on equal basis with them. Not sure what school your referring to as Brookside however.
One of the main reasons I don't live in Tulsa anymore is the cost. You can spend $150,000 for an old home that needs repair in midtown or you can buy a beautiful new home in the suburbs for the same price or less. I'd say the choice is all up to you. [:)]
I am referring to the high school that serves the Brookside area. Maybe I am a little off on that. Near 51st and Lewis?
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
Thanks for your response. So I guess if I choose Memorial, Booker T or the Brookside school (can't remember the name) districts I have some ammo to support me against living in BA or Jenks.
I think you would be on equal basis with them. Not sure what school your referring to as Brookside however.
One of the main reasons I don't live in Tulsa anymore is the cost. You can spend $150,000 for an old home that needs repair in midtown or you can buy a beautiful new home in the suburbs for the same price or less. I'd say the choice is all up to you. [:)]
I am referring to the high school that serves the Brookside area. Maybe I am a little off on that. Near 51st and Lewis?
TPS has many great schools to choose from. Their schools in the more interesting parts of town are probably some of their better. Both Lee (near 18th/Boston and Cherry St.) and Eliot (just off of Brookside) are great, great schools in walkable parts of town. You can do like I do, walk the little one to the coffee shop in the morning to enjoy a half/bagel while I enjoy my cup and then we casually walk up to class and I move off to work. I don't walk every day but some and it's quite enjoyable. You can do that with both schools. Try that in arterial land...er...I'm mean suburbia.
When we don't walk I am a two minute drive (literally) from school and then 4 minutes to work and absolutely NO traffic.
I don't need to argue for the schools but I was in the same boat as you sound like your in. My wife heard all these terrible things about inner-city schools and I had to convince her. Drive her through the neighborhoods in the Lee or Eliot elementary school districts and then visit both schools; compare tests - we did and were quite pleased with how these two schools performed compared to the 'better suburban schools' and felt like we got a better living environment to boot.
We feel like we have the best there is to offer at Lee: great school, great neighborhood, proximity to great parts of town and the river, absolutely no traffic compared to down there.
We absolutely intend to try to get into Carver (the feeder middle school for BTW) but will happily go to Edison M.S. and then to Edison H.S. (41st btwn Lewis and Harvard)if we don't qualify. We are comfortable with Edison as a high school education option.
I feel like I am striking a nice balance for my child in that we have access to a diverse school, many cultural amenities around our neighborhood, and helping her to develop an appreciation for a City as opposed to growing up think that NEW means better.
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
[quote
I think you would be on equal basis with them. Not sure what school your referring to as Brookside however.
One of the main reasons I don't live in Tulsa anymore is the cost. You can spend $150,000 for an old home that needs repair in midtown or you can buy a beautiful new home in the suburbs for the same price or less. I'd say the choice is all up to you. [:)]
Look deeper young pork. 150K probably got you some slapstick of a crackerbox. Feel your doors, tap your walls and windows. I bet you notice that they are pretty thin and light. That's probably not the latest cutting edge technology, that's probably called cheap materials. 150K in the burbs gets you garbage. Sorry I've looked through too many of them with one of my previous jobs.
$150K with two kids will get you a decent 3br bungalow in Swan Lake (Lee Elementary) or a modest home around Brookside (Eliot Elementary). While you may have to sand and repaint some trim, repair some old plumbing from time to time or refinish some gorgeous wood floors chances are you will get a sturdy home.
Let's also talk about appreciation. Pork I can only imagine the hood you are probably referring to will be depreciating within say 10 years of construction. New subs with 150K homes are a dime a dozen and far short of spectacular. There is nothing unique about them or of value that will keep people there once the 'new' wears off.
Swan Lake, on the other hand, is appreciating. We have very few hoods in Tulsa like it. While it saw its hard times, those are long gone. And I would advise you to get in while you can at 150K. Neighborhoods like this in other cities, you can't get into for less than 300K. I don't think some of our innercity hoods are too far from that.
BTW, in this day and age 150K won't get you paradise anywhere.
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Originally posted by OurTulsa
Look deeper young pork. 150K probably got you some slapstick of a crackerbox. Feel your doors, tap your walls and windows. I bet you notice that they are pretty thin and light. That's probably not the latest cutting edge technology, that's probably called cheap materials. 150K in the burbs gets you garbage. Sorry I've looked through too many of them with one of my previous jobs.
$150K with two kids will get you a decent 3br bungalow in Swan Lake (Lee Elementary) or a modest home around Brookside (Eliot Elementary). While you may have to sand and repaint some trim, repair some old plumbing from time to time or refinish some gorgeous wood floors chances are you will get a sturdy home.
Let's also talk about appreciation. Pork I can only imagine the hood you are probably referring to will be depreciating within say 10 years of construction. New subs with 150K homes are a dime a dozen and far short of spectacular. There is nothing unique about them or of value that will keep people there once the 'new' wears off.
Swan Lake, on the other hand, is appreciating. We have very few hoods in Tulsa like it. While it saw its hard times, those are long gone. And I would advise you to get in while you can at 150K. Neighborhoods like this in other cities, you can't get into for less than 300K. I don't think some of our innercity hoods are too far from that.
BTW, in this day and age 150K won't get you paradise anywhere.
I agree the quality of home building isn't what it use to be. I was also referring to midtown in my original post for the example of Tulsa.
IMO the best quality homes for the money would be south Tulsa in the Yale-Memorial area. These homes are around 30 years old are are very well built. Also the yards have plenty of full grown trees and etc. I think they go for around $65-$70 a sq ft.
New homes in the burbs are all under $100 sq ft unless custom built and there are many good contractors building them. As there are poor contractors as well. It doesn't take much to see who is who when looking at an addition.
quote:
Originally posted by OurTulsa
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by saintinthecity
Thanks for your response. So I guess if I choose Memorial, Booker T or the Brookside school (can't remember the name) districts I have some ammo to support me against living in BA or Jenks.
I think you would be on equal basis with them. Not sure what school your referring to as Brookside however.
One of the main reasons I don't live in Tulsa anymore is the cost. You can spend $150,000 for an old home that needs repair in midtown or you can buy a beautiful new home in the suburbs for the same price or less. I'd say the choice is all up to you. [:)]
I am referring to the high school that serves the Brookside area. Maybe I am a little off on that. Near 51st and Lewis?
TPS has many great schools to choose from. Their schools in the more interesting parts of town are probably some of their better. Both Lee (near 18th/Boston and Cherry St.) and Eliot (just off of Brookside) are great, great schools in walkable parts of town. You can do like I do, walk the little one to the coffee shop in the morning to enjoy a half/bagel while I enjoy my cup and then we casually walk up to class and I move off to work. I don't walk every day but some and it's quite enjoyable. You can do that with both schools. Try that in arterial land...er...I'm mean suburbia.
When we don't walk I am a two minute drive (literally) from school and then 4 minutes to work and absolutely NO traffic.
I don't need to argue for the schools but I was in the same boat as you sound like your in. My wife heard all these terrible things about inner-city schools and I had to convince her. Drive her through the neighborhoods in the Lee or Eliot elementary school districts and then visit both schools; compare tests - we did and were quite pleased with how these two schools performed compared to the 'better suburban schools' and felt like we got a better living environment to boot.
We feel like we have the best there is to offer at Lee: great school, great neighborhood, proximity to great parts of town and the river, absolutely no traffic compared to down there.
We absolutely intend to try to get into Carver (the feeder middle school for BTW) but will happily go to Edison M.S. and then to Edison H.S. (41st btwn Lewis and Harvard)if we don't qualify. We are comfortable with Edison as a high school education option.
I feel like I am striking a nice balance for my child in that we have access to a diverse school, many cultural amenities around our neighborhood, and helping her to develop an appreciation for a City as opposed to growing up think that NEW means better.
BINGO!!! That's the kind of environment I'm talking about. My wife already likes the idea of city life but she was concerned about quality schools. Thanks for your insight !
Edison is the school I was thinking of. Thanks for the great info!
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
Ok, I got my helment on so you all can start the throwing of the rocks. [B)]
I would suggest Jenks, Broken Arrow or Owasso.
All 3 have good school systems. Jenks is the wealthy suburb, Broken Arrow has the most to offer and Owasso is absolutely great for a smaller school system.
jmo [:)]
BA wasn't exactly the most proactive school system in the Tulsa area, which is a good reason i moved into TPS.
The dynamics of the Tulsa area's public education systems couldn't be easier to explain. Union, Broken Arrow and Jenks don't have the low-performing and/or problem schools because their populations are more hemogenous socioeconomically. TPS school vary dramatically because of the vastly differing socioeconomic conditions in the city.
And before you throw out your shoulder reaching for the mouse, it's not a race thing. Poor kids tend to perform worse in school regardless of race. By and large, Union, Jenks and Broken Arrow school districts are devoid of economically depressed areas. The housing stock is more uniform and provides stronger revenues.
TPS has the best public schools and worst public schools in the metro area, simply because the district covers the best and worst economic conditions in the city.
btw, I love how the Porkman stated his post about "offering" gang-ridden schools. As if the school board sat around and decided, "you know what, let's offer Gang Warfare as an extracurricular activity this fall." Porky, there are gang-ridden schools because they're located in gang-ridden areas and the public schools are REQUIRED to provide education for everybody. If every gang member in Tulsa moved to 71st & Mingo, you know which schools would be gang-ridden? That's right, Union.
^I hear Union already has that problem.
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
^I hear Union already has that problem.
But hey, they had a good football prgram, so ya can't hold that against them!
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
People always defend the Tulsa School District by pointing to Booker T. Washington. BTW is a great school but that is because it is a magnet school. BTW picks the children they want to attend their school. It is quite competitive to get in. Here is the minimum criteria (and they do mean minimum)
Minimum criteria for admission are as follows:*
*NOTE: Admission teams shall have the authority to admit a maximum of 10% of any entering class who are TPS residents and not otherwise qualified. These admissions decisions are to be based upon extenuating circumstances or conditions as determined by the admission teams and approved by the principal.
A. The successful completion of a middle school program through eighth grade or its equivalent.
B. Superb attendance: No more than 5 absences during the application year and no more than 10 absences during the year immediately prior to the application year.
(NOTE: Students with medically documented chronic/serious illnesses or other extenuating circumstances leading to excessive absences may be considered on a case-by-case basis. Such documentation must be provided in writing by the parents/guardians and included with the application packet.)
C. Excellent behavior: Suspensions out of school during the application year or during the year immediately prior to the application year may preclude consideration for admission.
D. Scores at the thirty-fifth percentile or above on both the reading and mathematics components of the most current standardized academic measurements typically available (or their equivalents) AND grade point averages at or above 2.50 on a 4.00 scale for the first semester of the application year and for the year immediately preceding the application year.
5. An Admission Recommendation Form prepared and signed by a minimum of three (3) faculty/staff at the applicant's current or most recent school who have knowledge of the applicant's potential for success.
If your child is not chosen to attend BTW then you need to consult the Tulsa Public School boundary map to see what school your child will attend. I would really do my homework on the other schools before you move into the district assuming that your child will be admitted into BTW.
You imply that these are unusually high criteria. From what I read of your post they must have attended class, not gotten into trouble routinely, know their teachers and counselors and make a 2.5gpa. 35th percentile in math and reading seems unusually low. The criteria describes a rather average, well adjusted student not "chosen" like those who attend private schools. Enough of the cherry picking remarks. BTW earns its reputation with excellent teaching and students who are ready to learn. Edison will soon build the same reputation and then Memorial.
quote:
Originally posted by daddys little squirt
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
People always defend the Tulsa School District by pointing to Booker T. Washington. BTW is a great school but that is because it is a magnet school. BTW picks the children they want to attend their school. It is quite competitive to get in. Here is the minimum criteria (and they do mean minimum)
Minimum criteria for admission are as follows:*
*NOTE: Admission teams shall have the authority to admit a maximum of 10% of any entering class who are TPS residents and not otherwise qualified. These admissions decisions are to be based upon extenuating circumstances or conditions as determined by the admission teams and approved by the principal.
A. The successful completion of a middle school program through eighth grade or its equivalent.
B. Superb attendance: No more than 5 absences during the application year and no more than 10 absences during the year immediately prior to the application year.
(NOTE: Students with medically documented chronic/serious illnesses or other extenuating circumstances leading to excessive absences may be considered on a case-by-case basis. Such documentation must be provided in writing by the parents/guardians and included with the application packet.)
C. Excellent behavior: Suspensions out of school during the application year or during the year immediately prior to the application year may preclude consideration for admission.
D. Scores at the thirty-fifth percentile or above on both the reading and mathematics components of the most current standardized academic measurements typically available (or their equivalents) AND grade point averages at or above 2.50 on a 4.00 scale for the first semester of the application year and for the year immediately preceding the application year.
5. An Admission Recommendation Form prepared and signed by a minimum of three (3) faculty/staff at the applicant's current or most recent school who have knowledge of the applicant's potential for success.
If your child is not chosen to attend BTW then you need to consult the Tulsa Public School boundary map to see what school your child will attend. I would really do my homework on the other schools before you move into the district assuming that your child will be admitted into BTW.
You imply that these are unusually high criteria. From what I read of your post they must have attended class, not gotten into trouble routinely, know their teachers and counselors and make a 2.5gpa. 35th percentile in math and reading seems unusually low. The criteria describes a rather average, well adjusted student not "chosen" like those who attend private schools. Enough of the cherry picking remarks. BTW earns its reputation with excellent teaching and students who are ready to learn. Edison will soon build the same reputation and then Memorial.
Not quite, these are minimums to even apply, they then take the top applicants, meeting these standards does NOT mean that you get in. It only means you are allowed to apply.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by daddys little squirt
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
People always defend the Tulsa School District by pointing to Booker T. Washington. BTW is a great school but that is because it is a magnet school. BTW picks the children they want to attend their school. It is quite competitive to get in. Here is the minimum criteria (and they do mean minimum)
Minimum criteria for admission are as follows:*
*NOTE: Admission teams shall have the authority to admit a maximum of 10% of any entering class who are TPS residents and not otherwise qualified. These admissions decisions are to be based upon extenuating circumstances or conditions as determined by the admission teams and approved by the principal.
A. The successful completion of a middle school program through eighth grade or its equivalent.
B. Superb attendance: No more than 5 absences during the application year and no more than 10 absences during the year immediately prior to the application year.
(NOTE: Students with medically documented chronic/serious illnesses or other extenuating circumstances leading to excessive absences may be considered on a case-by-case basis. Such documentation must be provided in writing by the parents/guardians and included with the application packet.)
C. Excellent behavior: Suspensions out of school during the application year or during the year immediately prior to the application year may preclude consideration for admission.
D. Scores at the thirty-fifth percentile or above on both the reading and mathematics components of the most current standardized academic measurements typically available (or their equivalents) AND grade point averages at or above 2.50 on a 4.00 scale for the first semester of the application year and for the year immediately preceding the application year.
5. An Admission Recommendation Form prepared and signed by a minimum of three (3) faculty/staff at the applicant's current or most recent school who have knowledge of the applicant's potential for success.
If your child is not chosen to attend BTW then you need to consult the Tulsa Public School boundary map to see what school your child will attend. I would really do my homework on the other schools before you move into the district assuming that your child will be admitted into BTW.
You imply that these are unusually high criteria. From what I read of your post they must have attended class, not gotten into trouble routinely, know their teachers and counselors and make a 2.5gpa. 35th percentile in math and reading seems unusually low. The criteria describes a rather average, well adjusted student not "chosen" like those who attend private schools. Enough of the cherry picking remarks. BTW earns its reputation with excellent teaching and students who are ready to learn. Edison will soon build the same reputation and then Memorial.
Not quite, these are minimums to even apply, they then take the top applicants, meeting these standards does NOT mean that you get in. It only means you are allowed to apply.
The implication was what I responded to. If its competitive, one would assume that the better students would have an edge, but the application process only requires an average student. If these same high performing students chose to attend Rogers High School, they would undoubtedly be placed in special curriculum programs.
Of course at Jenks they would have to pass "socializing" standards as well[:D]
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by daddys little squirt
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
You imply that these are unusually high criteria. From what I read of your post they must have attended class, not gotten into trouble routinely, know their teachers and counselors and make a 2.5gpa. 35th percentile in math and reading seems unusually low. The criteria describes a rather average, well adjusted student not "chosen" like those who attend private schools. Enough of the cherry picking remarks. BTW earns its reputation with excellent teaching and students who are ready to learn. Edison will soon build the same reputation and then Memorial.
Not quite, these are minimums to even apply, they then take the top applicants, meeting these standards does NOT mean that you get in. It only means you are allowed to apply.
Actually, that's not quite right either. If you meet the minimum standards, and live in BTW's historic neighborhood, or attended Carver (and to some extent Wilson), you are likely to be accepted, as BTW accepts these students before even looking to others. After that, you do get a lot more competition, and generally only top students will be admitted (though BTW has the discretion of accepting up to 10% of non-qualifying students). Even among the general population, however, BTW is required to take a certain percentage of students from each area of the city. Therefore, students from lower performing areas still have a good shot at acceptance. So, generally, kids at BTW are from the upper percentages, but not necessarily the best of the best.
Still, BTW is like a private school in that the students realize that attendance is a privilege, and that they can be kicked out at any given moment. When you can instill that sort of attitude among students, its a lot easier to teach.
By the way, Edison now has a magnet program built into the general school schedule, and I have heard very good things about it. If you live in the Edison district, and meet the qualifications, you are guarenteed placement within the advanced classes--unlike BTW, there is no limit to the number of students who can attend (within Edison boundaries).
Personally, I would choose Edison or BTW over Jenks or Union any day.
I would choose BTW, Edison, and Memorial before I would go to Union or Jenks.
I also like the principal at East Central...they are going to continue to improve.