Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 09:03:54 AM
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 09:03:54 AM
Last night there was a report on Channel 8 about the Troost lofts that are being built in the neighborhood between Cherry Street and the BA. I found it ironic that Cindy Morrison was so pleased that the lofts were going in after telling how many houses were being razed to make room for them. She proceeded to say what a wonderful addition this is to this "historic" neighborhood. Doesn't she realize that once these houses are razed this neighborhood will no longer be historic?[V]
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: tim huntzinger on February 09, 2007, 09:12:09 AM
Post by: tim huntzinger on February 09, 2007, 09:12:09 AM
Nice! We wondered the same thing. I really do not care for the design but at least they chose a fairly appropriate area for the project.
Catch the hype where Morrison said the units are going fast? Whatever happened to just the facts, ma'am? Why not just say the builders have sold x-many units and have x-many more units on the market?
Catch the hype where Morrison said the units are going fast? Whatever happened to just the facts, ma'am? Why not just say the builders have sold x-many units and have x-many more units on the market?
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 09, 2007, 09:39:06 AM
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 09, 2007, 09:39:06 AM
http://lofts.mcgrawok.com/
I presume this is what you are talking about.
While it certainly wont help the neighborhood remain historic... I think denser developments in that area are a good thing.
I presume this is what you are talking about.
While it certainly wont help the neighborhood remain historic... I think denser developments in that area are a good thing.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 09:46:59 AM
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 09:46:59 AM
They were featuring the Metro Lofts company.
"While it certainly wont help the neighborhood remain historic... I think denser developments in that area are a good thing."
Do you have something against historic neighborhoods?
"While it certainly wont help the neighborhood remain historic... I think denser developments in that area are a good thing."
Do you have something against historic neighborhoods?
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: sgrizzle on February 09, 2007, 09:50:34 AM
Post by: sgrizzle on February 09, 2007, 09:50:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by janle
Last night there was a report on Channel 8 about the Troost lofts that are being built in the neighborhood between Cherry Street and the BA. I found it ironic that Cindy Morrison was so pleased that the lofts were going in after telling how many houses were being razed to make room for them. She proceeded to say what a wonderful addition this is to this "historic" neighborhood. Doesn't she realize that once these houses are razed this neighborhood will no longer be historic?[V]
It's still historic. Historically, there were houses there.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 09:55:50 AM
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 09:55:50 AM
"While it certainly wont help the neighborhood remain historic... I think denser developments in that area are a good thing."
Do you have something against historic neighborhoods?
I misread your comment. sorry
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: iplaw on February 09, 2007, 10:06:00 AM
Post by: iplaw on February 09, 2007, 10:06:00 AM
Wow! Those have to be the ugliest buildings I've ever seen, and they're only $180 a square foot! What a bargain.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 09, 2007, 10:13:25 AM
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 09, 2007, 10:13:25 AM
No problem janle.
I wish historic neighborhoods all kept their property values up and the houses themselves in shape. But too many of them become rentals with landlords that dont care, then fall into disrepair, and eventually just become slums. A new development nearby may actually save some other homes in the neighborhood from this fate. So I'd rather see them torn down than abandoned to disrepair, neglect, and eventual abandonment.
If a competing developer wanted to refurbish them, then I would fight to save it.
Build up - not out!
Too much coffee today, Im nearly incoherent.
I wish historic neighborhoods all kept their property values up and the houses themselves in shape. But too many of them become rentals with landlords that dont care, then fall into disrepair, and eventually just become slums. A new development nearby may actually save some other homes in the neighborhood from this fate. So I'd rather see them torn down than abandoned to disrepair, neglect, and eventual abandonment.
If a competing developer wanted to refurbish them, then I would fight to save it.
Build up - not out!
Too much coffee today, Im nearly incoherent.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: iplaw on February 09, 2007, 10:17:06 AM
Post by: iplaw on February 09, 2007, 10:17:06 AM
Tearing down Craftsman style homes to build these fugly boxes...I bet Bob Villa is spinning in his grave.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 10:21:34 AM
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 10:21:34 AM
I agree.
Does anyone have an opinion on the possibility of a city ordinance to register landlords and require them to keep thier properties in good shape?
Does anyone have an opinion on the possibility of a city ordinance to register landlords and require them to keep thier properties in good shape?
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 10:31:47 AM
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 10:31:47 AM
Speaking of Bob Villa.
On February 8, This Old House is airing the rehabilitation of a Craftsman Bungalow in Austin, TX with all "green" additions. Looks like a must see.
On February 8, This Old House is airing the rehabilitation of a Craftsman Bungalow in Austin, TX with all "green" additions. Looks like a must see.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: waterboy on February 09, 2007, 11:10:46 AM
Post by: waterboy on February 09, 2007, 11:10:46 AM
Kudos for even understanding the irony. I wish someone had spoken up before former Mayor Terry whatever, tore down houses between the BA and 15th just west of Peoria to put in a walled off gated neighborhood. A few of the examples they wasted are still there just west of the development.
If they wanted to improve the Cherry Street historical ambiance and get my congratulations they could have replaced those drug infested 60's era apartments with their lofts instead of the single family rentals.
If they wanted to improve the Cherry Street historical ambiance and get my congratulations they could have replaced those drug infested 60's era apartments with their lofts instead of the single family rentals.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 09, 2007, 11:16:14 AM
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 09, 2007, 11:16:14 AM
As always, I have an opinion:
There are currently ordinances requiring all residence/owners to keep their property at a certain level of repair. However, these ordinances do not cover such things as how often you have to repaint your house, or having a roof that matches, or even keeping window frames from falling off.
In addition to those gaps, the ordinances are selectively enforced. I have friends that live in new South Tulsa neighborhoods and when they call on a car int he street with no wheels (or whatever) it gets taken car of within a week. In my midtown neighborhood the same thing (there was car on jacks with no wheels at 28th and Louisville) took over a month. My friend who lives just North of 244 on Harvard doesnt even bother calling anymore.
Plus, at what point is it none of the government business how you chose to have your property look?
There are currently ordinances requiring all residence/owners to keep their property at a certain level of repair. However, these ordinances do not cover such things as how often you have to repaint your house, or having a roof that matches, or even keeping window frames from falling off.
In addition to those gaps, the ordinances are selectively enforced. I have friends that live in new South Tulsa neighborhoods and when they call on a car int he street with no wheels (or whatever) it gets taken car of within a week. In my midtown neighborhood the same thing (there was car on jacks with no wheels at 28th and Louisville) took over a month. My friend who lives just North of 244 on Harvard doesnt even bother calling anymore.
Plus, at what point is it none of the government business how you chose to have your property look?
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: Steve on February 09, 2007, 11:23:48 AM
Post by: Steve on February 09, 2007, 11:23:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
If they wanted to improve the Cherry Street historical ambiance and get my congratulations they could have replaced those drug infested 60's era apartments with their lofts instead of the single family rentals.
Agreed. I saw the story and Cindy Morrison's gushing too. I think she said the new condos START at something like $250,000.00 and are going fast. Who is buying them? If I had $250,000 or more to spend on a residence, I wouldn't buy one of those, but a nice single-family detached home.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 11:27:11 AM
Post by: janle on February 09, 2007, 11:27:11 AM
Yeah, what is up with that?
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on February 09, 2007, 01:51:54 PM
Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on February 09, 2007, 01:51:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stevequote:
Originally posted by waterboy
If they wanted to improve the Cherry Street historical ambiance and get my congratulations they could have replaced those drug infested 60's era apartments with their lofts instead of the single family rentals.
Agreed. I saw the story and Cindy Morrison's gushing too. I think she said the new condos START at something like $250,000.00 and are going fast. Who is buying them? If I had $250,000 or more to spend on a residence, I wouldn't buy one of those, but a nice single-family detached home.
Not everyone want to live in a single family dwelling, especially if they aren't a single family unit.
If no one wanted them they wouldn't sell. Tulsa needs a variety of housing types for a diverse type of households. We can't all marry as soon as we leave home and start pumping out kids. There needs to be some free and creative people around to run the place.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: perspicuity85 on February 09, 2007, 01:58:06 PM
Post by: perspicuity85 on February 09, 2007, 01:58:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Agreed. I saw the story and Cindy Morrison's gushing too. I think she said the new condos START at something like $250,000.00 and are going fast. Who is buying them? If I had $250,000 or more to spend on a residence, I wouldn't buy one of those, but a nice single-family detached home.
The target market for the Troost lofts is young 20-somethings, particularly couples or singles.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: brunoflipper on February 09, 2007, 01:59:18 PM
Post by: brunoflipper on February 09, 2007, 01:59:18 PM
your concerns about these specific lofts and this developer have all been beaten to death on a previous thread...
MODs combine this with the old one...
MODs combine this with the old one...
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on February 09, 2007, 02:01:06 PM
Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on February 09, 2007, 02:01:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by brunoflipper
your concerns about these specific lofts and this developer have all been beaten to death on a previous thread...
MODs combine this with the old one...
Fair enough
I wonder sometimes if the Broken Arrow builders association hires people to come on here and belittle the new urban development going on.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: Double A on February 09, 2007, 03:24:19 PM
Post by: Double A on February 09, 2007, 03:24:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Kudos for even understanding the irony. I wish someone had spoken up before former Mayor Terry whatever, tore down houses between the BA and 15th just west of Peoria to put in a walled off gated neighborhood. A few of the examples they wasted are still there just west of the development.
If they wanted to improve the Cherry Street historical ambiance and get my congratulations they could have replaced those drug infested 60's era apartments with their lofts instead of the single family rentals.
F*#k you very much. Don't be a stereotypical prick.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: swake on February 09, 2007, 04:22:29 PM
Post by: swake on February 09, 2007, 04:22:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Double Aquote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Kudos for even understanding the irony. I wish someone had spoken up before former Mayor Terry whatever, tore down houses between the BA and 15th just west of Peoria to put in a walled off gated neighborhood. A few of the examples they wasted are still there just west of the development.
If they wanted to improve the Cherry Street historical ambiance and get my congratulations they could have replaced those drug infested 60's era apartments with their lofts instead of the single family rentals.
F*#k you very much. Don't be a stereotypical prick.
Don't be such a friggin' Communist all the time, eh?
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: waterboy on February 09, 2007, 05:46:45 PM
Post by: waterboy on February 09, 2007, 05:46:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Double Aquote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Kudos for even understanding the irony. I wish someone had spoken up before former Mayor Terry whatever, tore down houses between the BA and 15th just west of Peoria to put in a walled off gated neighborhood. A few of the examples they wasted are still there just west of the development.
If they wanted to improve the Cherry Street historical ambiance and get my congratulations they could have replaced those drug infested 60's era apartments with their lofts instead of the single family rentals.
F*#k you very much. Don't be a stereotypical prick.
[:O]Chill fella. You live in one of those rat holes? I don't mind being called a prick, but what stereotype did you have in mind? Some actually irritate me.
Honestly, which one of my 4 simple sentences offended you? The irony of tearing down old homes in a historical neighborhood, the abomination of a gated community not sharing its view with neighbors or the drug slum apartments with no style whatsoever?
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: Double A on February 10, 2007, 02:11:55 AM
Post by: Double A on February 10, 2007, 02:11:55 AM
The implication that the residents are all drug dealers or drug addicts. You might be surprised to learn that long time residents of this area include someone who is instrumental in keeping the Blues Festival going every year or someone who is positively shaping the futures of our children (//%22http://tsas.org/teachers/Leslie-Goshko%22) that has gained wonderful national attention (//%22http://www.broadwayworld.com/viewcolumn.cfm?colid=14517%22) for Tulsa by their talents, just to name a few. Unfortunately, Tulsa has a long and abysmal history of under compensating it's young talent, dubiously justified by a low cost of living. Why begrudge these people who are loyal to Tulsa, that make such contributions to our community, just because this is the only housing in this area that they can afford? These are just some of the people who will be economically evicted by the monster that's eating our neighborhood known as Metro Lofts. If being concerned about access to affordable housing in this area for my neighbors makes me a commie, I guess that makes ya'll a bunch of fascist pigf#*kers for your apparent lack of concern. Being the good "commie" that I am, would you really expect me to sit back and take guff from swine?
BTW, while I am at it you can take your free markets, deregulations, fast track free trade agreements, privatized public infrastructure, security and prosperity partnerships, North American Union, outsourced global economy, voodoo trickle down economics, WTO, new world order and shove it. If you need any help, I'll be happy to do the honor.
Remember the Battle in Seattle (//%22http://www.photomediagroup.com/pmm/issues/Winter2000/wto.htm%22)
Here's an anthem to go along with my rant.
Lyrics by Propaghandi
Nation States
"Publicly subsidized! Privately profitable!" That's the anthem of the upper-tier (the puppeteer untouchable). We focus a moment, nod in approval and bury our head back in the bar-codes of these neo-colonials while our former nemesis (ah, the romance!): the nation-state, now plays fund-raiser for a new brand of power-concentrate. Try again, but now we're confused- what is "class-war"? Is this class war? Yes, this is class war. And I'm just a kid- I can't believe that I gotta worry about this kind of s#*t! What a stupid world! Yeah, this is just beautiful... absolutely no regard for principle. What a stupid world. (We're): 1) born 2) hired 3) disposed! Where that job lands, everybody knows and you can tell by the smile on the CEO's that the environmental restraints are about to go. You can bet that laws will be set to ensure the benefit of unrestricted labor-laws (all kept in place by displaced government death squads). They own us. They produce us. They consume us. Can you f*#king believe this? What a stupid world. F*#k this bulls#*t display of class-loyalties. The media and "our" leaders wrap it all up in a flag- their f#*king s*#t-rag. hooray!
BTW, while I am at it you can take your free markets, deregulations, fast track free trade agreements, privatized public infrastructure, security and prosperity partnerships, North American Union, outsourced global economy, voodoo trickle down economics, WTO, new world order and shove it. If you need any help, I'll be happy to do the honor.
Remember the Battle in Seattle (//%22http://www.photomediagroup.com/pmm/issues/Winter2000/wto.htm%22)
Here's an anthem to go along with my rant.
Lyrics by Propaghandi
Nation States
"Publicly subsidized! Privately profitable!" That's the anthem of the upper-tier (the puppeteer untouchable). We focus a moment, nod in approval and bury our head back in the bar-codes of these neo-colonials while our former nemesis (ah, the romance!): the nation-state, now plays fund-raiser for a new brand of power-concentrate. Try again, but now we're confused- what is "class-war"? Is this class war? Yes, this is class war. And I'm just a kid- I can't believe that I gotta worry about this kind of s#*t! What a stupid world! Yeah, this is just beautiful... absolutely no regard for principle. What a stupid world. (We're): 1) born 2) hired 3) disposed! Where that job lands, everybody knows and you can tell by the smile on the CEO's that the environmental restraints are about to go. You can bet that laws will be set to ensure the benefit of unrestricted labor-laws (all kept in place by displaced government death squads). They own us. They produce us. They consume us. Can you f*#king believe this? What a stupid world. F*#k this bulls#*t display of class-loyalties. The media and "our" leaders wrap it all up in a flag- their f#*king s*#t-rag. hooray!
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: brunoflipper on February 10, 2007, 09:13:34 AM
Post by: brunoflipper on February 10, 2007, 09:13:34 AM
quote:yeehaw, fight the power, rage against the machine, 911 is a joke... but those apartments are pieces of ****...
Originally posted by Double A
The implication that the residents are all drug dealers or drug addicts. You might be surprised to learn that long time residents of this area include someone who is instrumental in keeping the Blues Festival going every year or someone who is positively shaping the futures of our children (//%22http://tsas.org/teachers/Leslie-Goshko%22) that has gained wonderful national attention (//%22http://www.broadwayworld.com/viewcolumn.cfm?colid=14517%22) for Tulsa by their talents, just to name a few. Unfortunately, Tulsa has a long and abysmal history of under compensating it's young talent, dubiously justified by a low cost of living. Why begrudge these people who are loyal to Tulsa, that make such contributions to our community, just because this is the only housing in this area that they can afford? These are just some of the people who will be economically evicted by the monster that's eating our neighborhood known as Metro Lofts. If being concerned about access to affordable housing in this area for my neighbors makes me a commie, I guess that makes ya'll a bunch of fascist pigf#*kers for your apparent lack of concern. Being the good "commie" that I am, would you really expect me to sit back and take guff from swine?
BTW, while I am at it you can take your free markets, deregulations, fast track free trade agreements, privatized public infrastructure, security and prosperity partnerships, North American Union, outsourced global economy, voodoo trickle down economics, WTO, new world order and shove it. If you need any help, I'll be happy to do the honor.
Remember the Battle in Seattle (//%22http://www.photomediagroup.com/pmm/issues/Winter2000/wto.htm%22)
Here's an anthem to go along with my rant.
Lyrics by Propaghandi
Nation States
"Publicly subsidized! Privately profitable!" That's the anthem of the upper-tier (the puppeteer untouchable). We focus a moment, nod in approval and bury our head back in the bar-codes of these neo-colonials while our former nemesis (ah, the romance!): the nation-state, now plays fund-raiser for a new brand of power-concentrate. Try again, but now we're confused- what is "class-war"? Is this class war? Yes, this is class war. And I'm just a kid- I can't believe that I gotta worry about this kind of s#*t! What a stupid world! Yeah, this is just beautiful... absolutely no regard for principle. What a stupid world. (We're): 1) born 2) hired 3) disposed! Where that job lands, everybody knows and you can tell by the smile on the CEO's that the environmental restraints are about to go. You can bet that laws will be set to ensure the benefit of unrestricted labor-laws (all kept in place by displaced government death squads). They own us. They produce us. They consume us. Can you f*#king believe this? What a stupid world. F*#k this bulls#*t display of class-loyalties. The media and "our" leaders wrap it all up in a flag- their f#*king s*#t-rag. hooray!
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: waterboy on February 10, 2007, 09:19:51 AM
Post by: waterboy on February 10, 2007, 09:19:51 AM
Well, that was entertaining. I don't know how, but you have totally mis-identified my politics, my attitudes and my comments. You're loaded for bear and shooting at rabbits.
There is one set of apartments north of 15th and just west of Utica that are purveyors of drugs. That irritates me. The very people you rail against own those apartments and allow the decent tenants to be at risk. Having seen the damage drug addiction wreaks on families, I have little respect for landlords that knowingly rent to these clever little entrepreneurs.
I've lived near and shopped on Cherry Street since the late 70's. I enjoyed it more when it was identified as 15th street and was truly a Bohemian experience. The grade school was worth saving and well attended. Piggly Wiggly was fun to shop and Cherry Street bakery was outstanding. Watching it be reformed into some Tulsa People concept of hip shopping has been almost nauseating to me. Rents went up, historical buildings went down and marketing ensued. It was once an affordable, walkable, interesting old neighborhood that was emerging as cool. Now its something else.
The pinnacle of TP style came when our former mayor redesigned an island of land with a beautiful view of the skyline at sunset into a walled gated plain vanilla housing addition. There was nothing wrong with the lovely old homes they tore down, they were just in the way. The Tulsa way. We're lucky I guess, due to the recession in the early 80's, it was supposed to be a high rise.
I don't resent the new lofts going in over there. And although the prices are surprising to me it may help to return the area to a more interesting mixture of residents. But I doubt it. Their success will mean more modest homes will come down replaced with higher density till the area has consumed what made it interesting in the first place. That's the irony. Of course the junk that should come down will probably survive.
I wouldn't presume to force my view of the area on others, however. The developers who are responding to current pressures by the next gen to live there are doing there job. Fighting them is futile. Working with them may get you more affordable rents.
Am I in stereoptype?
There is one set of apartments north of 15th and just west of Utica that are purveyors of drugs. That irritates me. The very people you rail against own those apartments and allow the decent tenants to be at risk. Having seen the damage drug addiction wreaks on families, I have little respect for landlords that knowingly rent to these clever little entrepreneurs.
I've lived near and shopped on Cherry Street since the late 70's. I enjoyed it more when it was identified as 15th street and was truly a Bohemian experience. The grade school was worth saving and well attended. Piggly Wiggly was fun to shop and Cherry Street bakery was outstanding. Watching it be reformed into some Tulsa People concept of hip shopping has been almost nauseating to me. Rents went up, historical buildings went down and marketing ensued. It was once an affordable, walkable, interesting old neighborhood that was emerging as cool. Now its something else.
The pinnacle of TP style came when our former mayor redesigned an island of land with a beautiful view of the skyline at sunset into a walled gated plain vanilla housing addition. There was nothing wrong with the lovely old homes they tore down, they were just in the way. The Tulsa way. We're lucky I guess, due to the recession in the early 80's, it was supposed to be a high rise.
I don't resent the new lofts going in over there. And although the prices are surprising to me it may help to return the area to a more interesting mixture of residents. But I doubt it. Their success will mean more modest homes will come down replaced with higher density till the area has consumed what made it interesting in the first place. That's the irony. Of course the junk that should come down will probably survive.
I wouldn't presume to force my view of the area on others, however. The developers who are responding to current pressures by the next gen to live there are doing there job. Fighting them is futile. Working with them may get you more affordable rents.
Am I in stereoptype?
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: iplaw on February 10, 2007, 10:31:28 AM
Post by: iplaw on February 10, 2007, 10:31:28 AM
quote:
BTW, while I am at it you can take your free markets, deregulations, fast track free trade agreements, privatized public infrastructure, security and prosperity partnerships, North American Union, outsourced global economy, voodoo trickle down economics, WTO, new world order and shove it. If you need any help, I'll be happy to do the honor.
Ladies and gentlemen...I think I found out Double A's real identity (//%22http://www.rense.com%22).
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: TheArtist on February 10, 2007, 02:59:58 PM
Post by: TheArtist on February 10, 2007, 02:59:58 PM
If Tulsa actually starts to pic up some economic steam, Cherry street will really start to boom. Those lofts will be the least of your worries lol. Those lofts are just the first little scouting parties for the coming wave. [8D]
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: YoungTulsan on February 10, 2007, 03:29:23 PM
Post by: YoungTulsan on February 10, 2007, 03:29:23 PM
I didn't catch the story, how many houses were razed to put in the lofts? I see things like this referred to as "dense" and "more urban" but 7 lofts? Thats not that many. I hope they didn't remove 7 or more houses. And you know generally, a higher income loft is going to be occupied by like 1 or 2 people. A lower-middle income home is more likely to have like 6 people living in it. Which is more dense?
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on February 11, 2007, 05:07:30 AM
Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on February 11, 2007, 05:07:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
I didn't catch the story, how many houses were razed to put in the lofts? I see things like this referred to as "dense" and "more urban" but 7 lofts? Thats not that many. I hope they didn't remove 7 or more houses. And you know generally, a higher income loft is going to be occupied by like 1 or 2 people. A lower-middle income home is more likely to have like 6 people living in it. Which is more dense?
I think typically only one or two houses are demolished and the density of housing increases around three fold.
I think these developments also raise the density of economic activity in the local area. Because that lower class family with six kids probably buy everything at Walmart, while the people who live in these lofts will consume resources provided in the local community. They will also have higher disposable incomes which will kick start the urban renaissance of the area.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: tim huntzinger on February 11, 2007, 10:11:12 AM
Post by: tim huntzinger on February 11, 2007, 10:11:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
I think these developments also raise the density of economic activity in the local area. Because that lower class family with six kids probably buy everything at Walmart, while the people who live in these lofts will consume resources provided in the local community. They will also have higher disposable incomes which will kick start the urban renaissance of the area.
SNOB ALERT! Indolent bourgeousis! Snort another moon pie and cleanse your lower digestive system with a black label beer!By that rationale the new McDonald's and Subway on Cherry is an invitation to lower-class scum to move in!
The style of the lofts are not my cup of tea but at least they are not the overstyled slabs of puke known as Italian Rennaissance. Talk about overdone. I would rather see a cubist rendition of Dean martin's liver than another Tuscan. Here is to diversity!
What would help is to make certain districts 'renter-free.' Someone with a 30-day lease has virtually nothing in common with someone who sinks the better part of their life savings in a neighborhood.
The City should reward the builders' $10M investment with sound barriers for the BA.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: Double A on February 11, 2007, 08:32:42 PM
Post by: Double A on February 11, 2007, 08:32:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzingerquote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
I think these developments also raise the density of economic activity in the local area. Because that lower class family with six kids probably buy everything at Walmart, while the people who live in these lofts will consume resources provided in the local community. They will also have higher disposable incomes which will kick start the urban renaissance of the area.
SNOB ALERT! Indolent bourgeousis! Snort another moon pie and cleanse your lower digestive system with a black label beer!By that rationale the new McDonald's and Subway on Cherry is an invitation to lower-class scum to move in!
The style of the lofts are not my cup of tea but at least they are not the overstyled slabs of puke known as Italian Rennaissance. Talk about overdone. I would rather see a cubist rendition of Dean martin's liver than another Tuscan. Here is to diversity!
What would help is to make certain districts 'renter-free.' Someone with a 30-day lease has virtually nothing in common with someone who sinks the better part of their life savings in a neighborhood.
The City should reward the builders' $10M investment with sound barriers for the BA.
The only thing Okies hate worse than know it all Yankees telling them what's best for 'em, is know it all Lymies doing it.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on February 12, 2007, 02:28:49 AM
Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on February 12, 2007, 02:28:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Double Aquote:
Originally posted by tim huntzingerquote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
I think these developments also raise the density of economic activity in the local area. Because that lower class family with six kids probably buy everything at Walmart, while the people who live in these lofts will consume resources provided in the local community. They will also have higher disposable incomes which will kick start the urban renaissance of the area.
SNOB ALERT! Indolent bourgeousis! Snort another moon pie and cleanse your lower digestive system with a black label beer!By that rationale the new McDonald's and Subway on Cherry is an invitation to lower-class scum to move in!
The style of the lofts are not my cup of tea but at least they are not the overstyled slabs of puke known as Italian Rennaissance. Talk about overdone. I would rather see a cubist rendition of Dean martin's liver than another Tuscan. Here is to diversity!
What would help is to make certain districts 'renter-free.' Someone with a 30-day lease has virtually nothing in common with someone who sinks the better part of their life savings in a neighborhood.
The City should reward the builders' $10M investment with sound barriers for the BA.
The only thing Okies hate worse than know it all Yankees telling them what's best for 'em, is know it all Lymies doing it.
A limey? It doesn't matter who I am, it's what I'm saying that should count.
I never called anyone scum. All I was saying was that younger more affluent people have consumption patterns that are likely to lead to a general uplift in the area. There is nothing wrong about building houses that suit one type of household unit above another, especially as there is a real lack in property not designed around the single family.
I think that as more of these lofts are built the prices will fall and with time they will become more affordable. At the moment the real lack of anything comparable is driving up the price and the demand for these.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: tim huntzinger on February 12, 2007, 09:00:12 AM
Post by: tim huntzinger on February 12, 2007, 09:00:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
It doesn't matter who I am, it's what I'm saying that should count.
Oh it counts, all right! I have nothing against large families and nothing against Wal-mart. Why do you hate them?
Your unfortunate comment betrays the sensibilities of the new yuppies: stuck-up, snooty, hatin' on po folk.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: RecycleMichael on February 12, 2007, 09:12:25 AM
Post by: RecycleMichael on February 12, 2007, 09:12:25 AM
Please try to not throw disparaging labels on each other. It does not help your argument and it detracts from your credibility.
I know it is difficult. I have been snarky in the past, but am trying to refrain from lowering the level of discussion.
Please.
I know it is difficult. I have been snarky in the past, but am trying to refrain from lowering the level of discussion.
Please.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: tim huntzinger on February 12, 2007, 10:15:17 AM
Post by: tim huntzinger on February 12, 2007, 10:15:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
Please try to not throw disparaging labels on each other. It does not help your argument and it detracts from your credibility.
I know it is difficult. I have been snarky in the past, but am trying to refrain from lowering the level of discussion.
Please.
What really detracts from the discussion is slamming poor people. It goes to the heart of the matter of the 'new urbanists' versus legacy residents.
Why don't you PM me or send me email (which we have exchanged in the past) rather than lecture me on board etiquette? Why do you not chastise IPlaw for detracting from an important thread related to child abuse than defend someone who made a stupid admission about poor people?
Lymie is an insult? Grow some skin. Someone call you stuck-up? Apologize for bagging on families.
Please. That remark was outrageous. I held back. At least I will tell you how I feel rather than play patty-patty with one hand while getting the knife out with the other.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 12, 2007, 10:57:29 AM
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 12, 2007, 10:57:29 AM
I would like to point out that "new urbanist" bourgeois types have a far lesser rate of shootings in their neighborhoods than many areas occupied by "legacy residence."
Im sure its throwing fuel on the fire, but its just a fact...
/me slinks away.
Im sure its throwing fuel on the fire, but its just a fact...
/me slinks away.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: iplaw on February 12, 2007, 01:37:51 PM
Post by: iplaw on February 12, 2007, 01:37:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzingerquote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
Please try to not throw disparaging labels on each other. It does not help your argument and it detracts from your credibility.
I know it is difficult. I have been snarky in the past, but am trying to refrain from lowering the level of discussion.
Please.
What really detracts from the discussion is slamming poor people. It goes to the heart of the matter of the 'new urbanists' versus legacy residents.
Why don't you PM me or send me email (which we have exchanged in the past) rather than lecture me on board etiquette? Why do you not chastise IPlaw for detracting from an important thread related to child abuse than defend someone who made a stupid admission about poor people?
Lymie is an insult? Grow some skin. Someone call you stuck-up? Apologize for bagging on families.
Please. That remark was outrageous. I held back. At least I will tell you how I feel rather than play patty-patty with one hand while getting the knife out with the other.
Hey Kettle...Pot calling, it's for you...complaining about someone lecturing you on board etiquette not an hour after you just did the same to someone else...someone certainly has thin skin, but it isn't RM.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: Steve on February 12, 2007, 02:47:35 PM
Post by: Steve on February 12, 2007, 02:47:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
The style of the lofts are not my cup of tea but at least they are not the overstyled slabs of puke known as Italian Rennaissance. Talk about overdone. I would rather see a cubist rendition of Dean martin's liver than another Tuscan. Here is to diversity!
What would help is to make certain districts 'renter-free.' Someone with a 30-day lease has virtually nothing in common with someone who sinks the better part of their life savings in a neighborhood.
Got to agree with you on those points. The last thing Tulsa needs is another residential or commercial development in some ersatz Tuscan, French, "cottage" style. I love modern architecture but I am not crazy about the Troost designs either.
Personally, I think there should be a cap of 20% maximum on the number of properties in residential single family zoned subdivisions that can be rentals or non-owner occupied. (I know that will never happen, but I can wish.) Trashy rental properties and trashy renters are the #1 scourge of my midtown Tulsa neighborhood. I bought my home 20 years ago, worked hard and paid off the mortgage, only to be slowly surrounded by renters and others that have absolutely no interest or pride in the appearance and maintenance of their properties. At least the police and co. sheriff got rid of the drug dealers that were squatting in the house next door to me for 6 months. It has been very discouraging to me, but all I can do is keep my own home nice and hope my pride rubs off on the neighbors (fat chance of that), and make multiple complaints every month to city code enforcement. What a joke Tulsa code enforcement has evolved into, all bark and no bite. They seem to be horribly understaffed.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: RecycleMichael on February 12, 2007, 03:44:54 PM
Post by: RecycleMichael on February 12, 2007, 03:44:54 PM
The city of Tulsa agrees that homeowners have a better relationship with their neighborhood.
They have established a bon-profit that assists people in becoming homeowners.
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Community/HOT/
They have established a bon-profit that assists people in becoming homeowners.
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Community/HOT/
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: Double A on February 13, 2007, 04:00:42 AM
Post by: Double A on February 13, 2007, 04:00:42 AM
Architecture and price aside, I wouldn't b*#tch so much about Metro Lofts projects, if they were built as well as the homes at the Village at Central Park.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on February 13, 2007, 04:36:00 AM
Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on February 13, 2007, 04:36:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Architecture and price aside, I wouldn't b*#tch so much about Metro Lofts projects, if they were built as well as the homes at the Village at Central Park.
I think the high price could well be a solution to your perceived problem with the quality, not that I personally consider them to be poorly constructed.
At the prices these developments are selling for I'm sure more developers will start building town houses and more urban properties. This will create more comparables which will drive down the price and raise the quality. At the moment there is so little to choose from people seem willing to buy anything out of the ordinary, maybe with time they will become more discerning as the supply increases.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: deinstein on February 14, 2007, 06:17:28 PM
Post by: deinstein on February 14, 2007, 06:17:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
If they wanted to improve the Cherry Street historical ambiance and get my congratulations they could have replaced those drug infested 60's era apartments with their lofts instead of the single family rentals.
Gentrification!
Depends on which ones you are talking about. The ones on Quaker you have a point.
The ones in my area along St. Louis and Trenton add a ton of socioeconomic diversity to the area...
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: deinstein on February 14, 2007, 06:19:32 PM
Post by: deinstein on February 14, 2007, 06:19:32 PM
And yes, this whole Metro Loft trend is rather annoying. They are using some of the cheapest, most hallow materials is my gripe.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: deinstein on February 14, 2007, 06:23:29 PM
Post by: deinstein on February 14, 2007, 06:23:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_okQuoteOriginally posted by YoungTulsanI think these developments also raise the density of economic activity in the local area. Because that lower class family with six kids probably buy everything at Walmart, while the people who live in these lofts will consume resources provided in the local community. They will also have higher disposable incomes which will kick start the urban renaissance of the area.
You're dead wrong on your stereotype of people living in these houses (usually renting)...
The house on St. Louis they tore down used to house roommates that were TU Law students, they moved out and the landlord was asking WAY too much so they remained vacant...
I'm assuming that's when the house was sold. And now we get cheap, suburban crap.
Great.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: TheArtist on February 14, 2007, 06:34:49 PM
Post by: TheArtist on February 14, 2007, 06:34:49 PM
^Well if this "cheap suburban crap" is selling so well at such prices. Sounds to me like a great opportunity for someone to build some quality suburban living and beat Mlofts at their own game. Must show the desperation for this type of living if people are buying that "cheap crap". Right?
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: deinstein on February 14, 2007, 07:11:15 PM
Post by: deinstein on February 14, 2007, 07:11:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
^Well if this "cheap suburban crap" is selling so well at such prices. Sounds to me like a great opportunity for someone to build some quality suburban living and beat Mlofts at their own game. Must show the desperation for this type of living if people are buying that "cheap crap". Right?
I prefer quality urban living, myself.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: tshane250 on February 14, 2007, 07:16:53 PM
Post by: tshane250 on February 14, 2007, 07:16:53 PM
quote:
They are using some of the cheapest, most hallow materials is my gripe.
I seem to recall mlofts saying that they used rather expensive materials. Like they use hardy board instead of vinyl siding. I will have to try to find those old threads. I know they were active around May of last year.
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: Rico on February 14, 2007, 07:38:11 PM
Post by: Rico on February 14, 2007, 07:38:11 PM
On a side note "Metro Lofts" received the go ahead on the Trenton portion of Cherry Street Loftmania...
Kinda reminds me of the Condo boom....[:O]
Kinda reminds me of the Condo boom....[:O]
Title: Troost Lofts
Post by: TheArtist on February 14, 2007, 09:16:18 PM
Post by: TheArtist on February 14, 2007, 09:16:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by deinsteinquote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
^Well if this "cheap suburban crap" is selling so well at such prices. Sounds to me like a great opportunity for someone to build some quality suburban living and beat Mlofts at their own game. Must show the desperation for this type of living if people are buying that "cheap crap". Right?
I prefer quality urban living, myself.
I am sure anyone would. Thus there must not be much available if people are choosing to pay those prices for this "cheap crap". Either that or the quality urban living costs a lot more than these lofts and thus these lofts are bargains and they are getting what they are paying for. If there is a market for higher priced, quality, urban living, I am sure someone will realize it real soon and provide it. Its the way the market works.