This discussion has come up in threads and I am curious as to what people think would be an acceptable definition of the boundaries of "midtown".
I would start with the borders of I-244 to 31st and the river to Memorial.
That would include Maple Ridge, Utica Square, Lortondale, Johansson Acres, Rogers High School and the fairgrounds.
It does not include Brookside, Whiteside Park, Promenade Mall, Tulsa Technology Center, etc.
Wadda ya'll think?
Hmmm--I don't think I would go further north than 15th, maybe 11th, and I would definitely include Brookside. My boundaries probably would be 11th to 41st, Riverside to Yale--SOBO to the Promenade. Memorial is a little too far east for midtown, IMO.
I would especially like to hear from someone in the real estate biz. They are the ones presenting the city and describing it. My real estate sales experience even from the late 70's would have included areas outside of the CBD. That would have been primarily east of Peoria and south of 18th. We often referred to the entire area as "the old part of town". Quaint.
I was corrected by a prominent broker as late as 2000 that Holiday Hills at 51st & harvard to yale was absolutely a "mid-town" neighborhood.
His presentation was that mid-town was the area between south Tulsa (61st) and Maple Ridge. They sell Maple Ridge as a separate entity that includes up to 31st & Peoria and Utica Square as a separate entity.
But in my mind I hate it when they are all lumped into mid-town because its confusing. I prefer area descriptions like Brookside, Cherry, etc. For what all that's worth.
11th to 51st....Riverside to Yale.....
We recently moved to Holiday Hills. Can we still be considered midtown? Great neighborhood btw.
I'll say 15th to 61st...Riverside to Yale.
The Arkansas River on the west boundary. To the south, I-44. East Boundary is Yale. North boundary is I-244. That's what I think of when I think of midtown.
I hope there are some realtors looking at his thread. Clients who ask to live in midtown what boundarys are they giving you realtors? It's kinda sounding like everyone's got their own boundaries.
South of I-244. East of the river. North of I-44. West of Sheridan.
Downtown is the northwest corner (but its own thing), Promenade Mall is the southeast corner. That area includes neighborhoods from the 1910s all the way up to the ranch houses of the late 50s.
I always felt that when you crossed I-44 at Yale, Harvard, and Lewis, you were moving from one distinct part of Tulsa to another (especially Yale).
15th and Peoria to 51st and Memorial
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
South of I-244. East of the river. North of I-44. West of Sheridan.
Downtown is the northwest corner (but its own thing), Promenade Mall is the southeast corner. That area includes neighborhoods from the 1910s all the way up to the ranch houses of the late 50s.
I always felt that when you crossed I-44 at Yale, Harvard, and Lewis, you were moving from one distinct part of Tulsa to another (especially Yale).
I agree with Average Joe. As you come down the hill to Sheridan, you're at the boundary of the Mingo Creek valley. 244 and the River are significant psychological boundaries. I-44 is like the Berlin Wall -- it's far easier to conduct your life entirely on one side of it or the other than to have to cross back and forth.
Another way you could look at it -- midtown is that part of "Tulsa proper" (the part of Tulsa within the pre-1966 boundaries, when the city tripled in size overnight) which isn't downtown, west Tulsa, or north Tulsa.
I've always referred to everything from 244 to Skelly, and Riverside Drive to Sheridan as Midtown.
This does not include The Farm Shopping Center. lol [;)]
I'd pretty much agree with Average Joe's assessment(at least since I was born). I've always considered the fairgrounds to be more or less the geographic center of Midtown.
The fairgrounds are about as Tulsan as it gets. The Driller. Expo Square. Bell's.
Oh wait. Nevermind.
I think there could be at least two definitions of midtown. A realtor is definitely going to call anything geographically centered as midtown in order to sell a property. But what I call midtown is, well, basically a feel. Its the older, more established, part of town. Usually has or is starting to have a "gentrified", or old but nice, feel to it. From near downtown and the river, south to around 41st and 51st, then east to around TU.
Basically the visual heart of midtown is the area around 21st and Utica. As other areas start to have the "look and feel" of that area, they become midtown. As areas become denser, more established, start having more infill, homes that are fixed up, made larger, etc. around the edges of midtown,,,, Midtown will grow.
I live near 41st and Yale. Its midtown to a realtor, but not really midtown to me. Kind of juuust past the far border, not quite old enough yet, but not really what many would now call South Tulsa either. Midtown geographically but not yet in "feel". As the OU college expands, the nicer neighborhoods slowly move towards my area, homes fixed up and mixed in with newer, nicer, and larger ones, my area will slowly become more midtownish. lol
If you're a realtor, midtown goes as far north, south, east and west as you can get away with. Every house on the market in Tulsa says "great midtown location." It means nothing anymore. [:P]
When I think midtown as a whole it is the area that AJ outlined, then broken down into the botique areas, downtown, uptown, Cherry Street, Brookside.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates
I-44 is like the Berlin Wall -- it's far easier to conduct your life entirely on one side of it or the other than to have to cross back and forth.
For some reason I find this hilarious. But so true! [^]
Midtown:
61st to 111th
Yale to Garnett.
Your midtown aint necessarily my midtown.
quote:
Originally posted by Aa5drvr
Midtown:
61st to 111th
Yale to Garnett.
Your midtown aint necessarily my midtown.
Do you actually call it "midtown" or are you just graciously pointing out to us that you live in the burbs and that your day to day life mainly occurs in this area?
So far it seems that Average Joe's assessment has the most agreeing posts.
I change my mind and agree too.
I-244 to I-44, Sheridan to the river.
Be it so.
Close enough.
WHAT DO I WIN??? [:P]
Kewl, bout a hundred feet more to the South and I would live in South Tulsa instead of Midtown. [:P]
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Kewl, bout a hundred feet more to the South and I would live in South Tulsa instead of Midtown. [:P]
How does the sound of the semis driving down I-44 sound to you?
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Kewl, bout a hundred feet more to the South and I would live in South Tulsa instead of Midtown. [:P]
How does the sound of the semis driving down I-44 sound to you?
It sucks.
quote:
Originally posted by Aa5drvr
Midtown:
61st to 111th
Yale to Garnett.
Your midtown aint necessarily my midtown.
Cool, so if I live in Oklahoma does that mean I can tell people I live on the west coast?
Midtown must be defined by cultural boundaries as much as geographic boundaries. And the boundaries don't have to be rigid. I think TU's campus should be considered in Midtown, as well as Utica Square, Brookside, Cherry Street, the fairgrounds, and the Promenade area. Midtown is really a combination of smaller individual districts. That said, it seems that I've created a loosely defined boundary from 11th St. to 51st St., and from Peoria to Sheridan. South of 21st St., Midtown extends to the river. The area between Yale and Sheridan is kind of a gray area, part Midtown, and part East Tulsa. 51st St. is also kind of a grey area, with 51st and Peoria as the beginning of Brookside, and 51st and Yale more a part of South Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
This discussion has come up in threads and I am curious as to what people think would be an acceptable definition of the boundaries of "midtown".
I would start with the borders of I-244 to 31st and the river to Memorial.
That would include Maple Ridge, Utica Square, Lortondale, Johansson Acres, Rogers High School and the fairgrounds.
It does not include Brookside, Whiteside Park, Promenade Mall, Tulsa Technology Center, etc.
Wadda ya'll think?
I guess "midtown" shifts constantly, with the continued nonsensical development of Tulsa to the south. Personally, I would define midtown today as I244 to 41st St., the river to Memorial. I would include Brookside, Promenade.
I would go further south even to 51st, and go north to Pine.
If you plotted sales tax revenue geographically where would "Midtown" be?
(Remember, those girls on 11th street dont collect sales tax.)
I liked the remark about realtors squeezing as much into "midtown" as possible. Years ago I asked a realtor why she listed her property with the heading "Bixby Schools."
She told me that was code for "Not TPS.")
Midtown -
North:
11th Street - jutting in to incorporate TU and the neighborhood just to the east of it.
The area between TU and 15th is CERTAINLY midtown. Dense, older houses, nice and pricey!
East-
Sheridan.
After Yale areas get kinda if-y. But I consider the Promenade shopping mall and the housing behind it to be midtown. As well as the Target and Reasors near Expo. So Sheridan it is.
South - I-44.
I understand parts are actually Brookside, but most of Brookside has a midtown feel to it anyway, and I dont want to draw a meandering line. Else I would cut midtown off at the creek near brookside but would incorporation Harvard to I-44, 41st minimum.
West:
River.
Clearly the area inside the IDL and Boston area are downtown. I also consider the pearl and the highrise condos on the river to be downtown more than midtown.
quote:
Originally posted by Aa5drvr
If you plotted sales tax revenue geographically where would "Midtown" be?
(Remember, those girls on 11th street dont collect sales tax.)
I liked the remark about realtors squeezing as much into "midtown" as possible. Years ago I asked a realtor why she listed her property with the heading "Bixby Schools."
She told me that was code for "Not TPS.")
hahahahaha...that AWESOME!
i like the pmcaulk definition, but extend that down to 61st st.
The Whirled seems to feel midtown extends to McClain high school at 4929 North Peoria.
(Feb 12 Community World -- Midtown, page 1.)
East of the River, West of Yale, North of Interstate 44 and South of Interstate 244.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
So far it seems that Average Joe's assessment has the most agreeing posts.
I change my mind and agree too.
I-244 to I-44, Sheridan to the river.
Be it so.
I thought we had a consensus on this one. It's a rare moment when the stars align and the three of us all agree on something.
My personal boundaries for "Midtown" are:
Crosstown Expressway on the NORTH
Arkansas River on the WEST
Skelly Bypass on the SOUTH
Sheridan on the EAST (because that is where the named avenues end)
Reading the threads on this -- the square outlined just doesn't feel right -- starting asking self (and others) about that midtown "feel". Southroads definately no, max south border - 36th and it seems to curve in and out - include Brookside to about 36 - then a swing over to the 41st and Lewis area then swiftly north -- 41st and Harvard doesn't feel midtown, neither does 31st and Harvard, maybe cut by BA then up to Fairground (Pittsburgh) north to 11th, down 11th to TU, then west to about Peoria, diagonally to 18th & Cincinnati area, to the River.
Anything south of 41st - question if you really need it, Anything south of 61 - is worthy of a packed lunch, south of 91st - an overnight bag - further than that - is the North Dallas wasteland.
quote:
Originally posted by LongtimeTulsan
North Dallas wasteland.
Oh, can we use this description instead of the developer created "South County". It better fits the description of the area.
quote:
Originally posted by LongtimeTulsan
Anything south of 41st - question if you really need it, Anything south of 61 - is worthy of a packed lunch, south of 91st - an overnight bag - further than that - is the North Dallas wasteland.
please keep up the smug snobbery....it really feeds into the midtown sterotype. You haven't proved me wrong yet!
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by LongtimeTulsan
Anything south of 41st - question if you really need it, Anything south of 61 - is worthy of a packed lunch, south of 91st - an overnight bag - further than that - is the North Dallas wasteland.
please keep up the smug snobbery....it really feeds into the midtown sterotype. You haven't proved me wrong yet!
Not a midtowner, obviously. Ergo - if there is a thing as midtown sterotype then there is midtown boundaries. Just as .. pick an area - Jenks - is it the main street of Jenks or the sprawl of Jenks? What about East Tulsa? Where does East Tulsa start and stop - is it geographic boundaries or is there a feel to it? Is our concept of an area bordered by the routines of the day - i.e. downtown is a high rise and south is anything that takes more than a half an hour to get to? Where are the suburbs? Are they snobs if there is suburban boundaries?
In midtown - you can still get anywhere you want in under 10 minutes (use to be 5). The roads are 2-4 lane; traffic is slower paced. There are still mom & pops where people know you by name. The stores have been there for decades, there is a high level of predictability, of sameness, of generations. What midtown is not - it is not flash.
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
Midtown must be defined by cultural boundaries as much as geographic boundaries. And the boundaries don't have to be rigid. I think TU's campus should be considered in Midtown, as well as Utica Square, Brookside, Cherry Street, the fairgrounds, and the Promenade area. Midtown is really a combination of smaller individual districts. That said, it seems that I've created a loosely defined boundary from 11th St. to 51st St., and from Peoria to Sheridan. South of 21st St., Midtown extends to the river. The area between Yale and Sheridan is kind of a gray area, part Midtown, and part East Tulsa. 51st St. is also kind of a grey area, with 51st and Peoria as the beginning of Brookside, and 51st and Yale more a part of South Tulsa.
Definately - a blend of cultural and geographic boundaries
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by LongtimeTulsan
Anything south of 41st - question if you really need it, Anything south of 61 - is worthy of a packed lunch, south of 91st - an overnight bag - further than that - is the North Dallas wasteland.
please keep up the smug snobbery....it really feeds into the midtown sterotype. You haven't proved me wrong yet!
I grew up in South Tulsa, and I prefer the smug Midtown snobbery to the South Tulsa snobbery anytime. At least Midtown has something unique to brag about.
Broadly, TU to 51st.
River to Yale.
Narrowly...the epicenter of Midtown is 21st and Utica.
Broadly, TU to 51st.
River to Yale.
Narrowly...the epicenter of Midtown is 21st and Utica.
Edison and the southern part of Rogers districts.
epicenter -- waffling between Utica Square and 15th and Utica area
Midtown - cultural, geographic and building style / materials axis. Midtown has a distinctive style about its homes - although interiors may have similiar layouts the exteriors are all unique - White city, Fair Heights, etc. The farther south, the sameness - anything with a garage out front is not midtown.
But what to call the area between