In the spirit of populism, a new group is seeking to allow grocery stores and convenience stores (and others) the right to sell wine and "strong beer." Apparently such a law would be considered a "modern law," as the group (//%22http://www.modernlawsok.org/%22) touts itself as "Oklahomas for Modern Laws." In fact, these laws are SO modern that the supporters of the group remain anonymous.
Tulsa World story. (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=070107_Ne_A1_Petit24883%22)
Another story. (//%22http://kfor.com/Global/story.asp?s=5397904%22)
And one more. (//%22http://www.okgazette.com/news/templates/news.asp?articleid=699&zoneid=3%22)
A petition drive will soon be coming to a grocery store near you!
Looking forward to signing the petition. Also, looking forward to better quality grocers coming to the city.
Feel sorry for the mom and pops. Not Fred Parkhill. Can you believe he's using the fear factor saying prices will go up. Perhaps on select wines. But what about the convienence factor?
If we want a healthier state and city, this change will invite the grocers that make a difference.
I know Aox, Fred sounds like a whiney baby everytime he is interviewed about this. [Paraphrased]"Go ahead and vote for it, I'll raise my prices to spite you and then you'll be mad at yourselves"
Its disingenuous for him to claim he will raise prices when we all know that more purveyors in the market should drive prices down as competition grows. His attitude is already driving me away.
Parkhill said he will have to raise his prices on hard liquor to compensate for lost revenue from wine and beer....I'm for having the Beer and Wine in other retail sites....
I can't wait to sign. I hope it goes through because this may be a one shot deal.
Where can we sign it?
They seem pretty straight forward. This is from their website, "This petition is one of the simplest in state history. It simply says that, if approved by Oklahoma voters, any establishment that now sells 3.2% beer (grocery and convenience stores) will be able to sell wine and high-point beer for off-premises consumption".
This group is just now forming and they are trying to make as many contacts as possible. Go here and fill out their form and they will get you a petition.
http://modernlawsok.org/node/5
If you really want to get involved, Give them your name say they can use it to impress others, make a small donation to the effort, and circulate a petition.
They need 219,000 signatures plus want a contingency of 25% as a buffer.
I don't care about the financial well-being of various liquor stores around town ... but I wonder if there is a social benefit to keeping wine and high point beer out of the grocery aisle? Why would we want to increase the number of places where strong alcohol can be purchased by drunk drivers? At all times of the night too. Isn't there a rational argument for maintaining the status quo on this issue?
well dont worry, i'm sure the state will make it so that only Boones and other low point "wine" can be sold.
quote:
Originally posted by Trams
In fact, these laws are SO modern that the supporters of the group remain anonymous.
Hi, I'm David Einstein. I support these proposed laws. And I wouldn't call these laws modern, I'd simply call them the norm throughout the country.
I enjoyed getting my alcohol at 10PM on Sunday for New Years Eve festivities when back home in North Carolina for the break...and I don't think your bigoted opinion should stop me from having this privilege.
Thanks and have a nice day.
Good Grief.....
Please do not allow this to happen here. Beer and Tobacco products and those pesky Lottery and Scratch n Snif tickets are bad enough.
Texas allows sales of alcoholhic beverages wine and beer in their grocery stores and low quality stop n shop type gas stations along the highway.
When traveling and time calls for a nature stop or for fuel and you end up at one of those Booze Traps it sure sucks. Don't have any thing worth over a dollar out in the open in your vehicle or it will be snatched up.
Get ready to be panhandled to death by every type of alky burning person, most are trying to get enough money for gas to get to the next town the story goes.
I think all alcohol and tobacco products should be illegal just like most other drugs, but that is another issue.
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
I think all alcohol and tobacco products should be illegal just like most other drugs, but that is another issue.
That's like...you're opinion, man.
quote:
Originally posted by Trams
I don't care about the financial well-being of various liquor stores around town ... but I wonder if there is a social benefit to keeping wine and high point beer out of the grocery aisle? Why would we want to increase the number of places where strong alcohol can be purchased by drunk drivers? At all times of the night too. Isn't there a rational argument for maintaining the status quo on this issue?
No.
Fred's response was disingenuous -- worked in D.C. for over a year, there was a wine shop right next door to a Whole Foods. Wake up Fred, if you're going to sell wine, focus on quality and service and let the QT stock the jug wines. Also a question, this is Oklahoma after all [:)]
will a grocery store be able to sell on Sunday?
Yes, banning alcohol sales...very effective the last time that was tried![:D]
On a related note, does anyone remember what law was changed back in the late 70's. I remember being able to buy "6 point" beer like Michelob at liquor stores but it ended, but I don't recall the exact issue. I think it may have had something to do with refrigeration encouraging on site consumption or something.
I'm also not sure what the earleir poster was talking about as far as getting panhandled in Texas...it's never happened to me and I've been in Dallas most of the last 25 years. BTW, much of Texas is dry so I'm not sure what "booze traps" you are referring to...
bigdtottown,
The reason why liquor stores in Oklahoma no longer sell strong beer is due to a clarification in a law that was enacted after Oklahoma ended prohibition in 1959. According to the law, no brewer, winery or distiller can enter into a franchise agreement with licensed liquor distributors in Oklahoma. The law was ignored (or certain manufacturers were unaware) until a lawsuit was filed against Coors in 1976 on behalf of a distributor in Ardmore. Coors replied to an order made by that distributor by not filling the order, pointing out they already had a distributor in the area.
A district judge issued an opinion on the court case in 1977, ordering Coors to sell to the Ardmore distributor or face a violation of franchising. Coors representatives instead stopped selling to Oklahoma distributors in order to persuade people in Oklahoma to allow franchising. Anheuser-Busch, Miller and Schlitz all prefer the franchising system a well, and stopped selling their product as well. Later, in 1978, voters defeated a state question to allow franchising in Oklahoma.
As it stands, Oklahoma law requires and open wholesale system. If you, the manufacturer, sell to one distributor in Oklahoma, you are required by law to sell to all distributors on a same price basis. The only other state that bans franchising among distributors is Utah, where no strong domestic beer is sold as well. Refrigeration was part if the issue, but not the sole reason why sales ceased. Kansas also required an open wholesale system, but changed the law in 1978 after the events that occurred in Oklahoma. In a franchise agreement, the wholesale distributor must follow the manufacturer's policy on quality control and advertising. In an open wholesale system, where the product is 'imported' by a broker, the wholesale distributor is not required to follow manufacturer's policies.
3.2 beer is exempt from Oklahoma's liquor laws, and thus, franchising among low-point beer distributors is allowed, and can be maintained at constant refrigeration. So no law was changed, it was the result of a legal dispute.
I'm in favor of wine sales at grocery stores.
That's pretty much common sense, and I had become accustomed to it while living in Dallas.
Quick question:
Does Wal-Mart sell wine in *any* state?
I've been in about three dozen states, and I've never seen wine in a Wal-Mart in any of them.
Before you get all gung ho and vote for this do some traveling to states that have this and see what it does to supply.
What do I mean?
Let's take Florida and Michigan for example since they are the two most recent places I vacationed.
In both of those states you can get wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores. Great huh?
Not really. While the common stuff is easy to find it makes the less common brands difficult to track down.
For example I was going to make margaritas one night. My recipe calls for Sauza Commemorativo Tequila. Could I find it anywhere around? Nope...not in either state. That goes for grocery stores or liquor stores. Cuervo was pretty much your only choice for tequila and that just doesn't taste right with my recipe.
Why is it like that? I asked the owner of a liquor store in Michigan that. His explanation was that since liquor became available at grocery stores very few people will go out of their way to a liquor store since they can buy it while doing other shopping. Also since the grocery stores tend to only carry the "mainstream" brands people think one is as good as the other and tend not to care if they get exactly the right thing. Just about every liquor store I went to in Michigan was strictly a high end wine seller. Very little if any liquor.
Florida was much the same way but not quite as bad. In addition to not being able to find the Sauza I also couldn't find any Presidente Brandy.
Sure wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores sounds great. Until you see what it does to the ability to get anything other than the "mainstream" brands.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Quick question:
Does Wal-Mart sell wine in *any* state?
I've been in about three dozen states, and I've never seen wine in a Wal-Mart in any of them.
You haven't looked. Just like any other grocer, Wal-Mart sells wine anywhere it is able to for the 30% markup. Try any wet county in Texas:
http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/mar2006/pi20060324_117687.htm
Guess I missed it. But then again, I'm a beer man. [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by okcpulse
bigdtottown,
The reason why liquor stores in Oklahoma no longer sell strong beer is due to a clarification in a law that was enacted after Oklahoma ended prohibition in 1959. According to the law, no brewer, winery or distiller can enter into a franchise agreement with licensed liquor distributors in Oklahoma. The law was ignored (or certain manufacturers were unaware) until a lawsuit was filed against Coors in 1976 on behalf of a distributor in Ardmore. Coors replied to an order made by that distributor by not filling the order, pointing out they already had a distributor in the area.
A district judge issued an opinion on the court case in 1977, ordering Coors to sell to the Ardmore distributor or face a violation of franchising. Coors representatives instead stopped selling to Oklahoma distributors in order to persuade people in Oklahoma to allow franchising. Anheuser-Busch, Miller and Schlitz all prefer the franchising system a well, and stopped selling their product as well. Later, in 1978, voters defeated a state question to allow franchising in Oklahoma.
As it stands, Oklahoma law requires and open wholesale system. If you, the manufacturer, sell to one distributor in Oklahoma, you are required by law to sell to all distributors on a same price basis. The only other state that bans franchising among distributors is Utah, where no strong domestic beer is sold as well. Refrigeration was part if the issue, but not the sole reason why sales ceased. Kansas also required an open wholesale system, but changed the law in 1978 after the events that occurred in Oklahoma. In a franchise agreement, the wholesale distributor must follow the manufacturer's policy on quality control and advertising. In an open wholesale system, where the product is 'imported' by a broker, the wholesale distributor is not required to follow manufacturer's policies.
3.2 beer is exempt from Oklahoma's liquor laws, and thus, franchising among low-point beer distributors is allowed, and can be maintained at constant refrigeration. So no law was changed, it was the result of a legal dispute.
i read that twice and it makes absolutely no sense. Just a bunch of cooked up bull**** to make selling alcohol hard. Bureacracy at its finest.
Believe it or not, but the top five states with the least number of alcohol related deaths allow wine and high-point beer (for the exception of Kentucky).
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Before you get all gung ho and vote for this do some traveling to states that have this and see what it does to supply.
What do I mean?
Let's take Florida and Michigan for example since they are the two most recent places I vacationed.
In both of those states you can get wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores. Great huh?
Not really. While the common stuff is easy to find it makes the less common brands difficult to track down.
For example I was going to make margaritas one night. My recipe calls for Sauza Commemorativo Tequila. Could I find it anywhere around? Nope...not in either state. That goes for grocery stores or liquor stores. Cuervo was pretty much your only choice for tequila and that just doesn't taste right with my recipe.
Why is it like that? I asked the owner of a liquor store in Michigan that. His explanation was that since liquor became available at grocery stores very few people will go out of their way to a liquor store since they can buy it while doing other shopping. Also since the grocery stores tend to only carry the "mainstream" brands people think one is as good as the other and tend not to care if they get exactly the right thing. Just about every liquor store I went to in Michigan was strictly a high end wine seller. Very little if any liquor.
Florida was much the same way but not quite as bad. In addition to not being able to find the Sauza I also couldn't find any Presidente Brandy.
Sure wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores sounds great. Until you see what it does to the ability to get anything other than the "mainstream" brands.
This does not propose to include liquor so the comparison is pointless.
quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy976
Believe it or not, but the top five states with the least number of alcohol related deaths allow wine and high-point beer (for the exception of Kentucky).
No way!
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Before you get all gung ho and vote for this do some traveling to states that have this and see what it does to supply.
What do I mean?
Let's take Florida and Michigan for example since they are the two most recent places I vacationed.
In both of those states you can get wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores. Great huh?
Not really. While the common stuff is easy to find it makes the less common brands difficult to track down.
For example I was going to make margaritas one night. My recipe calls for Sauza Commemorativo Tequila. Could I find it anywhere around? Nope...not in either state. That goes for grocery stores or liquor stores. Cuervo was pretty much your only choice for tequila and that just doesn't taste right with my recipe.
Why is it like that? I asked the owner of a liquor store in Michigan that. His explanation was that since liquor became available at grocery stores very few people will go out of their way to a liquor store since they can buy it while doing other shopping. Also since the grocery stores tend to only carry the "mainstream" brands people think one is as good as the other and tend not to care if they get exactly the right thing. Just about every liquor store I went to in Michigan was strictly a high end wine seller. Very little if any liquor.
Florida was much the same way but not quite as bad. In addition to not being able to find the Sauza I also couldn't find any Presidente Brandy.
Sure wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores sounds great. Until you see what it does to the ability to get anything other than the "mainstream" brands.
This does not propose to include liquor so the comparison is pointless.
No, it isn't. The same thing happens with beer and wine. If you will notice I said that most of the liquor stores in Michigan were pretty much high end wine selllers. Very little beer, if any, was carried in stock. I about went out of my mind trying to find a Guinness up there. Same thing goes for Newcastle, Bass, etc.... If you aren't drinking Bud or Coors you aren't drinking beer. Occasionally you could find a Sam Adams, but even that was rare.
Florida isn't quite as bad, but the same thing happens there. The liquor stores tend to be smaller, carry less and seem to carry mostly the higher end wine. I did have better luck finding beer in the grocery stores down there, but for the most part they to mostly only carry the "major" brands like Bud, Miller and Coors. If you can even call those beer.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Before you get all gung ho and vote for this do some traveling to states that have this and see what it does to supply.
What do I mean?
Let's take Florida and Michigan for example since they are the two most recent places I vacationed.
In both of those states you can get wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores. Great huh?
Not really. While the common stuff is easy to find it makes the less common brands difficult to track down.
For example I was going to make margaritas one night. My recipe calls for Sauza Commemorativo Tequila. Could I find it anywhere around? Nope...not in either state. That goes for grocery stores or liquor stores. Cuervo was pretty much your only choice for tequila and that just doesn't taste right with my recipe.
Why is it like that? I asked the owner of a liquor store in Michigan that. His explanation was that since liquor became available at grocery stores very few people will go out of their way to a liquor store since they can buy it while doing other shopping. Also since the grocery stores tend to only carry the "mainstream" brands people think one is as good as the other and tend not to care if they get exactly the right thing. Just about every liquor store I went to in Michigan was strictly a high end wine seller. Very little if any liquor.
Florida was much the same way but not quite as bad. In addition to not being able to find the Sauza I also couldn't find any Presidente Brandy.
Sure wine, strong beer and liquor in grocery stores sounds great. Until you see what it does to the ability to get anything other than the "mainstream" brands.
This does not propose to include liquor so the comparison is pointless.
No, it isn't. The same thing happens with beer and wine. If you will notice I said that most of the liquor stores in Michigan were pretty much high end wine selllers. Very little beer, if any, was carried in stock. I about went out of my mind trying to find a Guinness up there. Same thing goes for Newcastle, Bass, etc.... If you aren't drinking Bud or Coors you aren't drinking beer. Occasionally you could find a Sam Adams, but even that was rare.
Florida isn't quite as bad, but the same thing happens there. The liquor stores tend to be smaller, carry less and seem to carry mostly the higher end wine. I did have better luck finding beer in the grocery stores down there, but for the most part they to mostly only carry the "major" brands like Bud, Miller and Coors. If you can even call those beer.
I've never had a problem in Illinois, North Carolina, or Texas.
I rarely drink beer, and drink wine even less often, so selling these items in grocery and convenience stores is really a non-issue for me. I don't care much if the issue passes or not. I do think that for certain retailers to use the restriction as a reason for not doing business in Oklahoma, that is a pretty lame excuse. I have no problem with the grocers we currently have.
I do think the issue will be a hard sell, and will be as tough to pass as the liquor-by-the-drink issue was. OK finally legalized cocktail bars in 1984 after some 5 different statewide votes from the 1960's to 1984. This issue will be no different, IMO.
quote:
Originally posted by okcpulse
bigdtottown,
The reason why liquor stores in Oklahoma no longer sell strong beer is due to a clarification in a law that was enacted after Oklahoma ended prohibition in 1959. According to the law, no brewer, winery or distiller can enter into a franchise agreement with licensed liquor distributors in Oklahoma. The law was ignored (or certain manufacturers were unaware) until a lawsuit was filed against Coors in 1976 on behalf of a distributor in Ardmore. Coors replied to an order made by that distributor by not filling the order, pointing out they already had a distributor in the area.
A district judge issued an opinion on the court case in 1977, ordering Coors to sell to the Ardmore distributor or face a violation of franchising. Coors representatives instead stopped selling to Oklahoma distributors in order to persuade people in Oklahoma to allow franchising. Anheuser-Busch, Miller and Schlitz all prefer the franchising system a well, and stopped selling their product as well. Later, in 1978, voters defeated a state question to allow franchising in Oklahoma.
As it stands, Oklahoma law requires and open wholesale system. If you, the manufacturer, sell to one distributor in Oklahoma, you are required by law to sell to all distributors on a same price basis. The only other state that bans franchising among distributors is Utah, where no strong domestic beer is sold as well. Refrigeration was part if the issue, but not the sole reason why sales ceased. Kansas also required an open wholesale system, but changed the law in 1978 after the events that occurred in Oklahoma. In a franchise agreement, the wholesale distributor must follow the manufacturer's policy on quality control and advertising. In an open wholesale system, where the product is 'imported' by a broker, the wholesale distributor is not required to follow manufacturer's policies.
3.2 beer is exempt from Oklahoma's liquor laws, and thus, franchising among low-point beer distributors is allowed, and can be maintained at constant refrigeration. So no law was changed, it was the result of a legal dispute.
Ironically, this franchising law actually causes many import and high-end beers to sell better in OK than they would otherwise. College students frequently buy Newcastle or Bass instead of Budweiser at the liquor stores because they want real beer. The crazy thing is that the so-called "6 point" beer rarely actually has 6% alcohol. Most beers really have only about 4.9% if you read their websites.
This could be the solution we have been looking for.........
What do we do to get the Homeless people off the streets..?
Sell Wine at Wally World...
They could all set up a Camp in the ocean of asphalt surrounding the Isle of the Big Box....!
[^]
I would think a state constitutional amendment allowing a county-by-county vote might be more sympathetic. That way those in areas that want to stay dry could do so, and they might be less inclined to turn out to vote against a statewide measure that simply empowered counties.
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
I would think a state constitutional amendment allowing a county-by-county vote might be more sympathetic. That way those in areas that want to stay dry could do so, and they might be less inclined to turn out to vote against a statewide measure that simply empowered counties.
That's an interesting point. If the current "modern" measure passes, I would assume it wouldn't apply to dry counties. Does anyone know if that's true?
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
I would think a state constitutional amendment allowing a county-by-county vote might be more sympathetic. That way those in areas that want to stay dry could do so, and they might be less inclined to turn out to vote against a statewide measure that simply empowered counties.
That's an interesting point. If the current "modern" measure passes, I would assume it wouldn't apply to dry counties. Does anyone know if that's true?
Any town in Oklahoma with a population of 200 (I think) can have a retail package liquor store, so there are technically no completely dry counties in OK. I would assume that the petition to allow wine/strong beer in grocery stores would ammend the original 1959 constitutional liquor regs, and apply to all counties statewide. I think county option on this issue would be a mistake, just make the liquor laws more piecemeal and confusing.
Does anyone know what person or groups are behind the initiative to legalize strong beer/wine grocery store sales? Would be quite interesting to know.
Three arrested leaving the Chili Bowl event at Tulsa Expo last night.
Would not advise beer or alcohol consumption if you are attending the Chili Bowl Races. Last night three people were arrested for DUI, and Public Intoxication after leaving the Expo Grounds.
The cops are hip to people leaving there that have been drinking beer and hard alcohol.
Local Tulsa TV Channel 6 News had an interview with Expo Concessions that said they sold beer there during the event. They also sell hard liquor at one of the vendor booths, and upstairs at the cocktail lounge.
Unless you plan on walking to and sleeping at the Micro Tel, you are subject to arrest if you have consumed alcohol there.
DUI in Oklahoma is very expensive around $10,000 for first offense including attorney fees, DUI School, Probation Fees, loss of income, Court Fees, and up to 5 yrs Prison for 2nd offense. Public Intox runs around $500 per incident.
Cost the people arrested last night $200 for one and $900 for another just to pay to make bail, which is money lost to never be recovered.
Defense Attornies, Bail Bonds, Prosecution and Judges making money off the Alky Burners once again.
Better have a ton of money ready for bail and an attorney if you plan on drinking beer and riding or driving around in a motor vehicle in Oklahoma.
Word to the wise....
Oklahoma, arrive on Vacation, leave on Probation. Just ask McCually Culkin
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
This could be the solution we have been looking for.........
What do we do to get the Homeless people off the streets..?
Sell Wine at Wally World...
They could all set up a Camp in the ocean of asphalt surrounding the Isle of the Big Box....!
[^]
Homeless guys already drink from the grocery store. The drink Listerene and other items in the grocery store that contain alcohol. The steal the larg size of Listerene most times.
About 1 out of 3 deaths in the US is from Cardio Vascular Disease. One person dies every minute from Heart Disease. Someone suffers a stroke every minute and dies of one about every 3. etc. etc. these are highly influenced by diet and smoking. lets not forget the obesity epidemic from bad eating habits as well.
Bad eating habits kill more Oklahomans and Americans each year than bad drinking habits. Just as with good eating habits, good drinking habits can improve health.
Why do you never hear about laws banning Big Macs or not allowing MC Donalds to be open on Sunday? How about we jump on the trans fats ban, bandwagon.
The one caveat I have for this came from reading a study about people who had moderate wine or alcohol consumption. One of the doctors noted that part of the seen benefit may be from the observation that people who drink moderately also tend to do other things moderately. They already have a mindset and awareness for not just good drinking habits but good eating and exercise habits as well.
So it would be interesting to see in a state like ours, having people with higher than average obesity and bad health habits etc., what having more alchohol, more readily availible to these people (already apparently unable to make good health choices) will result in?
The junk fast food craze is out of convenience more than anything.
Packed lines in the limited number of grocery stores left in Tulsa drive people through fast food lanes to save time. Takes a 1/3 hour or longer to visit most the limited number of grocery stores in the area where I live.
Many people trade off what is in the food for speed of delivery. They just know that they need nourishment and they need it fast so they can move on to the next task to make another dollar to survive, deliver a kid to practice or a game, and run errands prior to arriving home at 9pm.
Many operate in the "eat what you kill" income mode at most times. Where time is money and money is time. Can't buy healthy food quick, then settle for the next best thing.
Chester's Quik Trip does offer an alternative.
If Walmart sold wine, at least there would be one thing you could buy at Walmart that wasn't made in China...
Since some folks don't want to sell wine or liquor in grocery stores, how 'bout a compromise: We continue to sell beer, wine and liquor in liquor stores, and just change the rules...so that they can stay open 24/7 every day of the week, they can sell beer cold, and they can sell mixers and limes. Everybody's happy.
On second thought...let's just let anybody sell whatever they want. Isn't the free market supposed to be a good thing? Aren't conservatives usually for unrestricted, unfettered, unregulated industry? Why not on this issue? Weird.
If you are in or on a motor vehicle as a passenger and law enforcement has a reason to stop the vehicle, then they find you have consumed alcohol, you can and most likely will be booked into jail for public intoxication in Oklahoma. Happened to someone I know recently, and they were not drunk, had only consumed 2 Oklahoma cans of beer in tha past hour. Person was not the driver of the vehicle, was a passenger in the back seat of a four door sedan.
Based on that scenario, I fail to understand the dedicated driver concept, or allowing any "public" establishment to serve alcoholic beverages.
If you are in "public" and have consumed alcohol, are you in violation of the "Public Intoxication" statute?
Can someone "splain" that to me ...
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/OurCity/Ordinances/Title27.asp#Chapter7
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=ok&vol=/appeals/1977/&invol=1977okcr113
CHAPTER 7
PUBLIC INTOXICATION
Section 700. Illegal Intoxication--Penalty.
SECTION 700. ILLEGAL INTOXICATION--PENALTY
A. Any person who shall, in any public place or in any vehicle, drink or otherwise consume any intoxicating liquor containing more than three and two-tenths percent (3.2%) alcohol measured by weight, except as authorized by the Oklahoma Beverage Control Act, or any other intoxicating substance, or intoxicating compound of any kind or inhale glue, paint or other intoxicating substance, shall be guilty of an offense.
B. Any person who shall be drunk or intoxicated in or upon any public or private road, in any vehicle, any public place or building, at any public gathering, place accessible to the public, or open to being viewed by others, from drinking or consuming such intoxicating liquor, intoxicating substance, or intoxicating compound or from the inhalation of glue, paint or other intoxicating substances, shall be guilty of an offense.
C. Any person who shall be drunk or intoxicated from any cause and who disturbs the peace of any person, shall be guilty of an offense.
D. It shall not be a violation of Subsection B of this section for any person to be
intoxicated on the premises of a private residence with the prior express consent of the
owner or any bona fide resident.
E. Any person found guilty of violating any offense included in this section
shall be punished by a fine of not more than TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS ($200.00),
excluding costs, fees and assessments.
Ord. Nos. 16354, 19128, 19605
According to this law, the owner of a cafe or restaurant or any place of recreation is required to make an intoxicated person leave and go outside into a more public place to be arrested on the Chapter 7 violation....
SECTION 901. PERMITTING INTOXICATED PERSONS TO REMAIN IN
CAFE, RESTAURANT OR PLACE OF RECREATION
CAFE, RESTAURANT OR PLACE OF RECREATION
It shall be an offense for any person operating a cafe or restaurant or any place of
recreation to permit any person to be drunk or intoxicated in such place of business. Any
person convicted of a violation of this section shall be punished by a fine of not more than
ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($100.00), excluding costs, and/or by imprisonment in the City
Jail for a period of not more than thirty (30) days.
So it's legal to have open beer in your car as long as it's 3.2 beer?
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
B. Any person who shall be drunk or intoxicated in or upon any public or private road, in any vehicle, any public place or building, at any public gathering, place accessible to the public, or open to being viewed by others, from drinking or consuming such intoxicating liquor, intoxicating substance, or intoxicating compound or from the inhalation of glue, paint or other intoxicating substances, shall be guilty of an offense.
So, does this mean if you get drunk at a private party and are driven home, you are guilty of public intox. for having a designated driver? Kind of discourages anyone from wanting to be a designated driver doesn't it?
I read that over and over. It looks like the designated driver or passenger is not subject to arrest unless he is
a.drunk
b.drinking in the vehicle.
I don't see where they can arrest you for having had a beer outside of the vehicle then residing in the vehicle unless you're drunk.
That said, I am aware that the police have been known to arrest an entire car load of partiers even when they are not drunk and not in possession of open containers of any alcoholic beverage. This occurred to my teenager about 8 years ago when the officer didn't care for the groups smarty pants attitude and simply arrested them all on public intox. No breathalizers, no open containers. The officers have the power to judge by behavior and breath whether you have publicly consumed and intoxicant. They had been drinking earlier and an ice chest with unopened beer was in the trunk. They were arrested, jailed and had to pay bond, go before a surly judge who fined them and pay atty fees. They all have a record now. Stupid abuse of power.
What does surprise me is part A. of the code which prohibits the consumption of in excess of 3.2 in public. Apparently you can swill a beer in public, but not a martini.
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
QuoteOriginally posted by AMP
So, does this mean if you get drunk at a private party and are driven home, you are guilty of public intox. for having a designated driver? Kind of discourages anyone from wanting to be a designated driver doesn't it?
No, you are guilty of public intox for being outside of a private home after injesting alcohol.
Designated Driver has little to do with the law. The person that has alcohol in their system is the guilty party. The authorities may also arrest the designated driver for suspicion of Public Intox at their desecration.
If you drink alcohol and are: Riding as a passenger in a CAB, CITY BUS, PRIVATE VEHICLE, TOW TRUCK, SITTING ON A BENCH, RIDING A BICYCLE, RIDING A HORSE, RIDING IN A HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE or WALKING, it does not matter.
You are subject to arrest if confronted by anyone that deems you are intoxicated and either calls the law authority or is a law authority
You are guilty of this law if you have alcohol in your body and are OUTSIDE of a PRIVATE HOME, or are inside a private home, after injesting alcohol, without the permission of the OWNER.
Way I read it is you can only injest alcohol legally while inside a PRIVATE HOME with permission, and no where else.
It could also be interpreted to read you are not allowed to drink in an Apartment or Rental property without the express permission of the owner or authorized agent of that property.
The term "subject to arrest" is telling. It means that the cops *can* arrest you for public intox, but won't unless you're being an obnoxious jerk.
Let's face it: Most of our local police are too busy worrying about serious crimes instead of boozers. Public intoxication arrests are rare, and happen only when the offense is particularly egregious.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
The term "subject to arrest" is telling. It means that the cops *can* arrest you for public intox, but won't unless you're being an obnoxious jerk.
Let's face it: Most of our local police are too busy worrying about serious crimes instead of boozers. Public intoxication arrests are rare, and happen only when the offense is particularly egregious.
I agree!
To me, it is a consumer convenience issue. If I want to buy wine or good beer, I have to go to a liquor store. But, as someone with three young kids, I am not allowed in a liquor store unless I leave my kids in the car. (I guess there is some concern that my 5 year old will convince me to buy liquor for him.) That seems like a major tragedy waiting to happen.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
I rarely drink beer, and drink wine even less often, so selling these items in grocery and convenience stores is really a non-issue for me. I don't care much if the issue passes or not. I do think that for certain retailers to use the restriction as a reason for not doing business in Oklahoma, that is a pretty lame excuse. I have no problem with the grocers we currently have.
I do think the issue will be a hard sell, and will be as tough to pass as the liquor-by-the-drink issue was. OK finally legalized cocktail bars in 1984 after some 5 different statewide votes from the 1960's to 1984. This issue will be no different, IMO.
OK, can someone please explain to me why the following is happening? In the past month, I have been to both Kilkenney's and McNellie's. Usually, they have a very good selection of beer. Lately, however, they do not have some of the better brands, such as John Courage and Bodingers. At McNellie's, the bartender says that soon he won't be able to get Bass, Anchor Steam, Stella Artois and other good beers. He indicated it is because Anheuser Busch has bought up the distribution rights and, because of Oklahoma's laws regarding 3/2 beer and distribution of cold beer. This doesn't make sense to me, but I get the sense it is related to your email quoted below.
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
quote:
Originally posted by okcpulse
bigdtottown,
The reason why liquor stores in Oklahoma no longer sell strong beer is due to a clarification in a law that was enacted after Oklahoma ended prohibition in 1959. According to the law, no brewer, winery or distiller can enter into a franchise agreement with licensed liquor distributors in Oklahoma. The law was ignored (or certain manufacturers were unaware) until a lawsuit was filed against Coors in 1976 on behalf of a distributor in Ardmore. Coors replied to an order made by that distributor by not filling the order, pointing out they already had a distributor in the area.
A district judge issued an opinion on the court case in 1977, ordering Coors to sell to the Ardmore distributor or face a violation of franchising. Coors representatives instead stopped selling to Oklahoma distributors in order to persuade people in Oklahoma to allow franchising. Anheuser-Busch, Miller and Schlitz all prefer the franchising system a well, and stopped selling their product as well. Later, in 1978, voters defeated a state question to allow franchising in Oklahoma.
As it stands, Oklahoma law requires and open wholesale system. If you, the manufacturer, sell to one distributor in Oklahoma, you are required by law to sell to all distributors on a same price basis. The only other state that bans franchising among distributors is Utah, where no strong domestic beer is sold as well. Refrigeration was part if the issue, but not the sole reason why sales ceased. Kansas also required an open wholesale system, but changed the law in 1978 after the events that occurred in Oklahoma. In a franchise agreement, the wholesale distributor must follow the manufacturer's policy on quality control and advertising. In an open wholesale system, where the product is 'imported' by a broker, the wholesale distributor is not required to follow manufacturer's policies.
3.2 beer is exempt from Oklahoma's liquor laws, and thus, franchising among low-point beer distributors is allowed, and can be maintained at constant refrigeration. So no law was changed, it was the result of a legal dispute.
Ironically, this franchising law actually causes many import and high-end beers to sell better in OK than they would otherwise. College students frequently buy Newcastle or Bass instead of Budweiser at the liquor stores because they want real beer. The crazy thing is that the so-called "6 point" beer rarely actually has 6% alcohol. Most beers really have only about 4.9% if you read their websites.
Too many people talking out of their asses, worried about things that arent a real threat.
If you ever look up actual statistics there is no correlation between alcohol related deaths and who/what/when or where people are allowed to sell alcohol. Likewise, dry counties dont have an advantage over areas serving alcohol. States that stuck with the .1 BAC and states that went right away to .08 had the same fatalities and didnt see their arrest rate statistics change. The drunk driving aspect is a farce.
The availability to minors aspect is also a farce. How many here drank when they were underage? 85? 90% of us? Most of the time I had someone pick up some beer for me at a gas station or a grocery store or a liqueur store. It didnt really matter to me. It hasn't been THAT long, so I assume it has changed much. If you really want alcohol you are going to be able to get it.
Same story with alcoholics. Does anyone honestly think that an alcoholic wakes up on Sunday or an election day and just goes the day without his booze? If someone fails to stock up they can always go to a gas station or a restaurant and get their fix. Again, its a farce.
The only people really punished by these stupid blue laws are individuals who by and large consume alcohol responsibly and want a drink. Wine for a Sunday dinner or whatever, why again cant I buy it where and when I want? Currently we have a liquor store on every corner anyway. Certainly that looks worse in a community than wine at Reasors.
As an after thought, the wine store were all up in arms to sell on election day because people are responsible and the law was an arbitrary restriction on the sale of alcohol. What changed?
Akupetsky:
As I understand it Oklahoma law would require a distributor to sell those brands openly, not being able to control their distribution really nor pricing at a regional or individual level. Likewise, the 3.2% make shipping and delivery of beer complicated as the shipments have to be separated.
Basically, what I was told upon contacting some of the beer companies is that selling their product int he Sooner State wasn't worth the pain in the donkey.
I'm sorry to hear that more products will be displaced by our antiquated, moralistic, and ineffective laws. Again, how many minors or alcoholics are suffering because Boddingtons and Fat Tire arent sold in Oklahoma? How many drunk driving accidents did this prevent?
That is why I REALLY stress that you get anyone you can including yourself to get registered to vote if you haven't already, and find out where the petitions are being circulated. Sign it, then vote yes in 2008. They need 170,000 legal signatures to put on the 2008 ballot. Let's do this and get these damn laws off the books.
Which reminds me, the state question will only deal with allowing grocery stores to sell wine and strong beer. It doesn't deal with franchising. It's only my hope that the legislature will have no choice but to trash the no-franchise law when they realize that if kept on the books, the franchise ban will cause Anheuser-Busch, Coors and Miller to disappear from Oklahoma altogether, as 3.2 beer will be eliminated unless some stores decide to keep it on their shelves.
My wife and I signed up on here several weeks ago to sign the petition, but not one word out of anyone. What gives? Are they still trying to get everything together?
The petition will be circulated late this summer. Look for the petitions to be circulated at the Tulsa and Oklahoma City fairs. I'm sure there are other places they will be circulated.
Right now, they are still ironing out the proposal, and will be talking to the Oklahoma Malt Beverage Association regarding the franchising issue to get everyone on the same page. They have growing support for this cause.
You won't find online petitions. You have to sign them in person. Be sure you are registered to vote. If not, your signature will not be valid.