Looking at our year end expenses some of the largest are the 4 Yellow Page ads we pay monthly. They total over $14,400 per year. That is money that leaves Oklahoma, other than a small portion that is paid in commissions to the local phone book's outside account managers.
Noticed none of the Telephone Directories are based in Tulsa, or even printed Oklahoma for that matter. Giant streams of revenue flow out of this state in payment for a mere listing in these books.
Why does Oklahoma not print these phone directories, and why do we need FOUR PHONE BOOKS for Tulsa?
A small business owner does not dare choose to not list in all four, as most people toss out the existing book as soon as the new one hits the door step, which is every 4 months with 4 or more books being delivered in this small town.
I have associates that operate service businesses and they tried not buying in one or more phone directory. Their phone all but stopped ringing when they dropped out of sight when the new book hit the door step and the old one got tossed out in the recycle bin.
Added to that is the Broken Arrow Valor phone directory, which has very few businesses in Tulsa listed in it. Most businesses at the intersection of 71st and Memorial and further north and East of Memorial in a few Industrial Parks are listed in the Valor Phone book out of Broken Arrow, and may not be listed in the four directories published for the Tulsa market. That is unless the business owner is savvy and pays additional fees to be listed.
Ever take a calculator and add up the costs of all those ads in the various phone books in the Tulsa area. Don't forget Jenks and Owasso, Sand Springs and Bixby. People living in the states where the payments flow to are living large off our monthly phone book payments.
And don't forget the AEP Electric bill that goes to Ohio. Another giant river of revenue flowing out of Oklahoma and into some other community that is absoultly loving spending the profits made off of our energy use.
People wonder why the economy in Oklahoma is struggling and why the wages are below standard and why our schools suffer. With the massive revenue rivers flowing out of here monthly it is a wonder we have enough money left to buy the overpriced, as Quik Trip named
With the massive revenue rivers flowing out of here monthly it is a wonder we have enough money left to buy the overpriced, as Quik Trip named it "boutique quality" Gasoline.
phone books are still relevant? I wish they weren't. they're all available on CD or online.
I like yp.yahoo.com, local.google.com, smartpages.com, etc.
It's strange that you brought this up, because just last night (or this morning), I cleaned out a cabinet full of phone books, and while some of them were old, I still have two separate Tulsa directories, a Bartlesville directory and three Owasso/Skiatook/Sperry directories. I think it's especially ridiculous that Owasso/Skiatook has at least three phone directories published by three separate companies.. Why? What's the need? There isn't, other than some small directory company to make more money on advertisement space!
...and none of the books are arranged the same way or even contain the same information, so it's no wonder that it's so difficult to find telephone numbers or information... Imagine if a city larger than Tulsa had this many directories... Take NYC for example... They have enough listings for several books just once per year... Could you imagine the sheer number of books that would be printed and wasted?? I think we should have electronic phone directories--it'd save so much time, energy and of course, trees...
Well the anywho.com and 411.com and others all suck too. They are all out of date, not cleaned out, and updated. And if you use them you will find mailing addresses incorrect, businesses that have been gone for years still listed and other problems.
Not too many people in Oklahoma have Internet Access, and even fewer are educated on how to use the Online Directories. Recently at an event we held in Oklahoma, we asked 1,200 people in attendance if they had Internet Access, only 4 people responded that they did have Internet Access. 22 responded that they knew someone that had Internet Access.
We just did a 3,000 piece mailer and used some of the Online directories for locating business types we target in surrounding states and cities. Got 40% returned with incorrect or closed addresses, or Unknown. May be a sign of the poor sluggish economy, but also may be an outdated data base.
Trust me, if you own a business or more than one as I do, you are attacked by this problem several times a year. The phone calls from the phone book reps take up hours of time, and you do not dare have your ad printed incorrectly as it will be out there for a year before you can change it. Not to mention all the mail pieces that appear to be associated with a Yellow Page Directory billing you for $295.00 for an annual ad in a directory you have never seen or will ever see.
Quick Easy Fix = Competitive Bidding
The State Legislature needs to allow ONE Source in each area for the Telephone directory from low BIDS on the process. The bidding companies must be located in and incorporated in the State of Oklahoma, and all proceeds must stay in the state of Oklahoma.
Try to combine the suburbs with the Major City in the area all in one book, could be two parts white pages and yellow pages.
Require the printing firms to BID and they must be located in OKLAHOMA.
Require the Distribution firms to BID. They must use OKLAHOMAN'S that posess ID and they must be Citizens of the US and not Illegal Aliens.
Two of the largest sources of problems causing the poor economy in this area from my experience are:
1. Poor Mail handling and processing. The mail cannot seem to get through, and if and when it does it appears to of been run through a paper sheader or worse. If you even receive it. Mail returned with Unknown stamped on it as if it never left the Post Office Hub. Based on the computer that read the label and made the decision that person had never received mail there before, therefore an UNKNOWN stamp is applied and the mail returned to sender. Sheesh! NO wonder the economy sucks.
2. Too dang many Phone Books confusing the consumers, causing mis-information, not listing every and all competitors, and causing extreme learning curves among the end users.
Consumers either toss out the new book, or hold on to the old one they have learned to use, marked up with a pencil and book marks until the next years model arrives.
In the mean time the business owners are being charged 4 Times the amount they should be paying for timily accurate data to be provided to the market.
One other thing about the Post Office.
If you mail once a year or every six months and one day, you will not receive a forward address on a party that has moved and left a forwarding address with the Post Office.
Same goes for new phone numbers. Unless the business pays to have the "This Number Has Been Changed" recording extended past the normal time it falls off.
Forwarding address is only good for SIX months, not TWELVE months. Most mailers that are annual are mailed once a YEAR. Like Christmas Cards, Holiday Greeting Cards, Birthday cards and other typical correspondence. So why is the forwarding address only good for SIX MONTHS?
Who makes these policies that seem to not fit normal business and private party correspondence procedures?
but if there were only one phone book then they would just charge a lot more for advertisement space and you probably would still be spending about the same amount
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
Not too many people in Oklahoma have Internet Access,...
There are a lot of Oklahomans on the 'Net.
I would prefer to get my phone book on disk. I hate the big, heavy, bulky books with the tiny print.
It seems like I am always throwing them away and more just keep showing up.
I seldom open them up unless it's for a Mazzio Coupon in the back. I have the numbers I call on an Ipod so they are always available to me.
If I have to look something up I do it on the PC. If they don't show up on the PC then I move on to someone else.
AMP raises a valid concern.
Each of these phonebooks pull in a lot of advertising dollars, and most of them go out of state.
I would suggest only running ads or coupons in the phonebook that comes out closest to your small business' busiest time of the year. For some that would be early summer, and for others, late fall.
There's no simple fix to this problem, it is just capitalism. Phone books apparently are not government regulated. Should they be?
Thus far the addition of additional phone books in the market has not reduced the costs of advertising for us. We are now spending 4 to 5 times more running the exact same size ads in the multiple directories.
Another problem that exists is the fact that each suburb of Tulsa prints their own phone book. Therefore unless a Tulsa Based business elects to pay additional to be placed in the Yellow Page ads in those surrounding suburbs, that business is not listed.
Your business could be located on the West side of Memorial have a AT&T phone (used to be SWB) and not be listed in the Valor phone book out of Broken Arrow which controls the phones and phone books on the East side of Memorial Drive.
People wanting do to business with your type of firm may not know you exist, and may drive 10 miles into Broken Arrow to do business there as that firm would be listed in the Valor phone book.
Keep in mind business and people living in those communities do not receive a AT&T/SWB Phone Directory, they just get their small home town phone book. Out of Site - Out of Mind.
This makes it necessary for businesses to Pay even more for Advertising in even more additional phone directories, if they want to reach those suburb markets. Thus driving up the costs of goods and services and increasing the flow of revenue out of the State of Oklahoma to another competing state economy.
By incorporating the suburbs such as Jenks, Broken Arrow, Owasso, Bixby, Sand Springs, Pratville and other surrounding towns and villages into one single source comprehensive directory, and then eliminating all the small directories, it would boost the economy as people in the rual areas would become aware of businesses they may of never known existed to service their needs.
I use the pages of my old phone books to start my wood stove. A Google search will find phone numbers as quickly as anything.
"but if there were only one phone book then they would just charge a lot more for advertisement space and you probably would still be spending about the same amount"
Maybe not, if it were done with a Competitive Bid process. Plus even if the ads were 20% higher, if there were ONE Comprehensive book, the increase in sales would more than offset the additional costs.
In the near future you will be able to choose a disk instead of a heavy book. The money that the yellow pages generate for printing and distribution can be considered against a less than a dollar disk. Regardless the yellow pages in all the phone books, transferring the names would be simply scanning to copy on a disk.
One would presume that all yellow pages have a central office and they have the good-ole-boy political power liken the PSO wanting more money to build and improve generation facilities when the power plant on 51 is operated at the minimum standby for lack of customers.
PC directories may work if you are tethered to a desk 8+ hours per day. But what if you lock you keys in your car with the engine running? Or need roadside assistance?
Most people would go to the traditional phone book at the nearest store or QT and start calling the services listed. Used to provide phone books at pay phones, but that is a thing of the past now.
Even if you rely on the 411 on your cell phone, unless the business is advertised in the directory for the town you are requesting, they won't be listed in the 411 directories data base.
Boils down to extraction of Millions of Dollars in advertising costs from the Oklahoma Economy every month. Call the Yellow pages and get a quote on those full color ads. Then grab your caculator and add up the total number of pages in this years Yellow Page books. Don't forget to multiply by 4 to get your grand total.
And yes it should be regulated by the Government, Judge Green missed that part in his Tele-Communication ruling.
We have put large recycling dumpsters all over the metro area till new year's to collect phone books for recycling.
There is one at each recycling center and two downtown (one south of the PSO building and one west of the convention center).
For a list of recycling centers, go here...
http://www.metrecycle.com/depots.htm
Tulsa was the first city in the country to organize a phone book recycling collection drive. It was an effort to convince local leaders in 1989 that recycling was important.
http://www.theultimates.com/yellow/
Checks Infospace, Dogpile, Switchboard, Superpages, Smartpages, Worlpages....all from one location.
Or...
http://www.theultimates.com/white/
...for residential.
Granted there are Online sources for phone numbers and addresses, but how accurate are they, and how many of the listings have been closed and are obsolete on their lists.
Just do a simple check for a basic type of service in any given state and start calling to see how many are still there. Hard to determine how long they have been out of business, however I know of several that have been listed for six or more years, that have not been in business for that length of time.
The list keepers just keep adding listings, they seldom remove any from their lists.
Oooops, I just tossed five of them into the trash dumpster. Hope they find there way to the recycle deal.
I wonder what the cost is to produce one of these bulky, huge, obsolete phone books?
I don't know why we have so many phone books delivered to residences in Tulsa, but I would bet that Tulsa is not unique in this. I still have my trusty AT&T (SWB) land line, so I receive a new AT&T/SWB phone book most every year and this is the only one that I keep. All other books I receive I deposit directly into recycle bins. Seems like such a waste of natural resources.
The money they get from advertising must make the additional phone books profitable, or they would not exist. I think it is a big waste, as I trash them all, except the AT&T/SWB book.
I use the yellow pages of the phone book. Can't get used to using the internet for services/businesses like repairmen etc. Maybe I'm just 'programed' that way. I do like Sangria's suggestion of having it on disk.
Are disks recyclable?
Check the price for a full page ad in the phone directories. Believe it is around $2,000 per month in the Tulsa directories, correct me if I am off a little, it may be even more.
Count up the pages and multiply by $2,000+ per page as the smaller ads cost additional for their layout and smaller size, than buying a full page.
2006 AT&T Book 1110 Pages Not counting the Coupon section which sells for an additional amount.
1110 x 2,500 = 2,775,000 per month
Times 4 Phone Books - 11,100,000 per month.
Or $133,200,000 per year.
That is 133 Million Dollars just in the Tulsa Books. Does not count Owasso, Jenks, Sperry, Bixby, Broken Arrow, Sand Springs. Those are probally another 20,000,000 or more in revenue that flows out of Oklahoma.
No wonder automobiles and other goods we buy are so outrageous. Just look at all the money wasted on the multiple phone directory advertising costs.
Thumb through the books and check out the businesses paying for those Full Page or Double Page Full color ads. And how much are the cover ads? Front, Back and Insides?
But hey, a single business card size ad in the Oklahoman Newspaper in OKC runs us $940 per weekday. It is $1,250 on Sunday black and white.
Based on results of people I know that own or are investors in service oriented businesses, from a simple survey of their customers they have found the majority of their customers located them via the old fashioned Yellow Pages.
They have their drivers and repair field personnel always ask how the customer found them, majority of the time it is Yellow Pages.
Most their companies names start with the letter A or B also.
Not sure about other types of businesses. We hardly ever receive phone calls, maybe four a week, and our numbers and business is listed on over 18,000 web pages, on hundreds of web sites online, and published in 14 trade magazines, plus 8 newspapers.
We may get a 1/2 dozen business emails a month on a busy month. Most those are ad proofs, or an inquiry regarding a service we provide.
Unfortunately, the phonebooks you throw away won't 'find their way' to a recycling center. They actually have to be dropped off there. Don't throw them away, they are made itno all sorts of products including house shingles.
Do the recycle people come by to pick them up?
If you are a subscriber to the curbside collection service offered by the City of Tulsa, the answer is yes.