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Talk About Tulsa => Other Tulsa Discussion => Topic started by: sgrizzle on November 20, 2006, 09:18:58 AM

Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: sgrizzle on November 20, 2006, 09:18:58 AM
I'm not the best at either, but I tend to expect better from retailers, advertisers and large companies in which tens, if not hundreds, of people see a work before it is made available to the public.

This weekend while admiring a hat embroidered "OklahomaStateE" I wondered how this could happen. With Danny Beck he promised on billboards that "I want to be you're president." On the radio I hear of an organization that will help you read 10 books in the time it would normally take to read one. They advertise this as both 10x faster and 1000% faster. Apparently speed reading doesn't help you know that 1000% plus 100% = 1100% or 11 books.  Another radio advert says "why buy (product x) from someone who obviously doesn't use it themselves," they analogize it with "that's like getting a haircut from a  mechanic." Are they saying all mechanics need haircuts? Otherwise the analogy makes no sense.

Just a pet peeve. My other is that the Tulsa World pays no attention to where the paper folds when they do the layout. Otherwise friday's world wouldn't have shown a 106 yr old woman accompanied by headline "same sex couple granted divorce."
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: Kiah on November 20, 2006, 09:22:10 AM
Yes . . . them is.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: BKDotCom on November 20, 2006, 09:36:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

advertisers and large companies in which tens, if not hundreds, of people see a work before it is made available to the public.
I think you'd be surprised at how few people are behind the creating of such materials.  And in my personal experience the design types that put them together are just a wee bit artsy-fartsy / "absent minded".   And the print shops seem to have some policy of not confirming any blatant errors they might see.  The client is always right?  Charge them twice?

Getting a haircut from a mechanic.  They're saying that a mechanic probably doesn't give a very good haircut.   When you need a haircut, do you go to a barber/hair-stylist, or a mechanic?  
The analagy fits, but the commercial was a bit dumb.  It has nothing to do with the state of any mechanic's hair.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: RecycleMichael on November 20, 2006, 09:46:43 AM
Reading comprehension...

Grandma says Anne Spelling is lost? Who's Art?
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: brunoflipper on November 20, 2006, 09:56:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

I'm not the best at either, but I tend to expect better from retailers, advertisers and large companies in which tens, if not hundreds, of people see a work before it is made available to the public.

This weekend while admiring a hat embroidered "OklahomaStateE" I wondered how this could happen. With Danny Beck he promised on billboards that "I want to be you're president." On the radio I hear of an organization that will help you read 10 books in the time it would normally take to read one. They advertise this as both 10x faster and 1000% faster. Apparently speed reading doesn't help you know that 1000% plus 100% = 1100% or 11 books.  Another radio advert says "why buy (product x) from someone who obviously doesn't use it themselves," they analogize it with "that's like getting a haircut from a  mechanic." Are they saying all mechanics need haircuts? Otherwise the analogy makes no sense.

Just a pet peeve. My other is that the Tulsa World pays no attention to where the paper folds when they do the layout. Otherwise friday's world wouldn't have shown a 106 yr old woman accompanied by headline "same sex couple granted divorce."



unpossible...
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: jdb on November 20, 2006, 10:21:31 AM
Art were that dude that singed some song about an turnpike, than his hair felled out.

One can't not poof there own righting, jdb
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: snopes on November 20, 2006, 10:40:00 AM
Alot of this has to do with the text messaging generation. U R Here... I work in the marketing profession and you see it all of the time. And these people who think they are all the rage when it comes to art for the most part ignorant of what it takes to put together something truly artistic, even on a sterile marketing level.

They like to think they are the artistic type, but in truth real art takes alot of work and appreciation of many things other than slick paper brochures with beautiful people on the cover using their cell phones in a Starbucks on the upper East side of Manhattan.

Attention to detail is truly a lost art and they think grammar is below them because it's not relevant to the masses in which their communication is intended. Don't get me started (shiver)...
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: AngieB on November 20, 2006, 10:59:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by BKDotCom

I think you'd be surprised at how few people are behind the creating of such materials.  And in my personal experience the design types that put them together are just a wee bit artsy-fartsy / "absent minded".   And the print shops seem to have some policy of not confirming any blatant errors they might see.  The client is always right?  Charge them twice?


Being in a creative profession does not automatically mean that you are are artsy-fartsy or "absent minded". There are designers out there (such as myself) that can spell, do use proper grammar and pay attention to detail.

As for the print shops, that's not their job. That is why they provide proofs on which you must sign off. They don't read your materials. As far as they are concerned, if the color is right and the job is trimmed and folded correctly, they're done.

I think the instances where you find horrible grammar and blatant errors, are those times when a professional designer and/or advertising agency isn't involved. Often it is when the person selling the advertising says "Hey, buy this space and we'll design it for you." And in those cases, you get what you pay for.

OK, off my soapbox now.  [:)] Haha.

Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: Hometown on November 20, 2006, 06:27:52 PM
It has happened to forms as well – federal and every other kind of form.  Forms are riddled with mistakes now.  I remember when forms were flawless.

It has something to do with technology being so thoroughly distributed and just about everyone having their hand in the pot or the document.  It doesn't help with communication being so instantaneous and half baked.  Windows has degraded everything.  But work product has gone to hell across the board so maybe there is a loss of work ethic going on too.  I dropped a hyphen in this paragraph and don't even care.

Add to that the fact that an error in Microsoft Word's grammar program is multiplied a billion times and has the power to ultimately change our language.  

But don't worry; today's sloppy English is tomorrow's text book English.

Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: aoxamaxoa on November 20, 2006, 06:47:59 PM
No, not lost art....but the internet nomenclature allows for play on words....I wish I'd had spell check and word in college.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: TheTed on November 21, 2006, 01:00:13 AM
While it's not truly an error, those Pike Pass signs along the turnpikes bother me.

The number is listed as 1-800-Pike Pas. I'm not sure why they can't just add the second 'S.' It wouldn't hurt anything, and then it wouldn't look like a letter fell off the sign.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: sgrizzle on November 21, 2006, 07:26:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed

While it's not truly an error, those Pike Pass signs along the turnpikes bother me.

The number is listed as 1-800-Pike Pas. I'm not sure why they can't just add the second 'S.' It wouldn't hurt anything, and then it wouldn't look like a letter fell off the sign.



A similar argument can be made for "1-800-2-SELL-HOMES" which is really "1-800-2-SELL-HO"
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: AngieB on November 21, 2006, 08:53:16 AM
How about the signs at the Turnpike gates that say "Failure to pay toll strictly enforced."

Uhmmmm.....okaaaaay.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: jdb on November 21, 2006, 09:06:14 AM
Yeah, but it's the wrong time of year to be selling Ho's.

Crossing the border back into the States this summer, I became a "detainee" (which in my case equates to being treated poorly for hours) and thusly, I set out to become the biggest pest I could be.

On the wall was a letter from Congress with three mis-spelled words.

I had so much fun with that that I hated to leave.
One Agent couldn't keep a straight face but everyone else quickly hated my guts.
Finally, they had had enough and I was escorted out with a hand on my back.

"...and just what exactly does 'Admistering' mean?". - jdb




Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: papaspot on November 21, 2006, 10:00:35 AM
(http://www.myoklahomalife.net/wp-images/oklahoma/towncemetery.jpg)
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: RecycleMichael on November 21, 2006, 10:28:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jdb

Yeah, but it's the wrong time of year to be selling Ho's.


I am pretty sure that this is the only time of year you can sell Ho's.

I always wanted to have an answering machine message that played Santa's voice saying Ho Ho Ho.

I would call it "Dial a Ho".
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: sgrizzle on November 21, 2006, 10:40:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael


I am pretty sure that this is the only time of year you can sell Ho's.



Acutally edmond's mayor tried that:

quote:

Congratulations to Mayor Saundra Naifeh of Edmond, Oklahoma, who may be the best mayor ever. She recently spent a day wearily trudging from door to door in her city, delivering leaflets discouraging underage drinking. Helpfully, they even included a phone number so kids could rat out underage drinking parties.

Unfortunately for Mayor Naifeh, a typo meant that the phone number on them went to a sex line.

The mistake was only discovered after 22,000 of the leaflets had been distributed.

The phone number on the leaflets led callers to a phone service which offered 'exciting live talk' for between 99 cents and $2.99 a minute. The exact nature of the 'exciting live talk' has not been specified, but it seems safe to assume that it doesn't involve counselling on the perils of alcohol.

Authorities attributed the error to a typo when the leaflet was created by the Oklahoma Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services.

The Mayor was out personally delivering the leaflets as part of a national event called Make A Difference Day,which strives to 'to help neighbors and the community.' Mission accomplished on that one, it would seem.

Mayor Naifeh modestly played down her triumph by attacking the media for revealing that the number was a sex-line. 'It will change the focus of what we were doing,' she fumed.

'It is not part of the story,' she added, inaccurately.



Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: sgrizzle on November 21, 2006, 10:49:30 AM
Is this a sentence?

"Part of that attraction is about the quality of life."

I was perusing the City of Tulsa to website to see if we were being bad. Apparently someone should pass out a memo with the definition of "sentence fragment" on it.

At least that is what I.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: Johnboy976 on November 21, 2006, 11:37:08 AM
By the way, did anyone notice in that rather humorous article that there was a typo?

"The Mayor was out personally delivering the leaflets as part of a national event called Make A Difference Day,which strives to 'to help neighbors and the community.' Mission accomplished on that one, it would seem."

You do not need to use a word two times in-a-row (of course that is depending on the circumstance... mind you, this time is not one of those times).
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: jdb on November 21, 2006, 11:53:27 AM
Everyone knows Springtime is the best time to sell Ho's - they command a much higher price.

(http://preview.jdid.photosite.com/~photos/tn/6342297_348.ts1164131498000.jpg)
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: papaspot on November 21, 2006, 12:24:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

Is this a sentence?

"Part of that attraction is about the quality of life."

I was perusing the City of Tulsa to website to see if we were being bad. Apparently someone should pass out a memo with the definition of "sentence fragment" on it.


I dunno, sgrizzle--it looks like a complete sentence to me. It's got all its parts. I think it's awkward because of the unnecessary inclusion of the word "about." I'll run it by my wife this evening. She's a REAL grammar nazi. [}:)]

quote:

At least that is what I.



[}:)]
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: snopes on November 21, 2006, 01:04:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

Is this a sentence?
"Part of that attraction is about the quality of life."



It's a sentence, just a pooooooooorly constructed one. It doesn't make much sense either, unless it was in context as follows:

"People from many countries are attracted to the United States. Part of that attraction is about the quality of life."

But then, the sentence in question would be better if it said something like "This attraction is mainly due to the quality of life."


My 2 "sense."
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: AngieB on November 21, 2006, 01:33:05 PM
Teaching grammar these days is a "loosing" battle.
[}:)]



Man, that one drives me crazy.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: snopes on November 21, 2006, 02:29:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI

Teaching grammar these days is a "loosing" battle.
[}:)]



Man, that one drives me crazy.



TMini, you LOOSER! [:D]
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: AngieB on November 21, 2006, 02:59:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by snopes



TMini, you LOOSER! [:D]



No need to be mean...just because bad grammar makes me [sic]!  [:P]
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: Kiah on November 21, 2006, 04:03:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI

Teaching grammar these days is a "loosing" battle.
[}:)]



Man, that one drives me crazy.



There's only one common mistake more annoying THEN that one.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: papaspot on November 21, 2006, 04:08:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI

Teaching grammar these days is a "loosing" battle.
[}:)]



Man, that one drives me crazy.



There's only one common mistake more annoying THEN that one.



Guess you'll just to except it.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: snopes on November 21, 2006, 04:16:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot

quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI

Teaching grammar these days is a "loosing" battle.
[}:)]



Man, that one drives me crazy.



There's only one common mistake more annoying THEN that one.



Guess you'll just to except it.



(http://www.dabearz.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: Johnboy976 on November 22, 2006, 08:10:31 AM
Regarding: "Part of that attraction is about the quality of life." I am getting my masters, and this sentence would not fly with professors.

papaspot is right... "about" is unnecessary. Grammatically this sentence would stand on its own if it weren't for the fact that "about" leads the sentence to refer to multiple "attractions." Simply put, the preposition turns the focus away from "the quality of life." If that was the intention of the writer, they should have written it more coherently.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: aoxamaxoa on November 23, 2006, 11:04:17 AM
No, art is lost.....
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: TulsaJayhawk on November 24, 2006, 10:48:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI

Teaching grammar these days is a "loosing" battle.
[}:)]


Man, that one drives me crazy.



There's only one common mistake more annoying THEN that one.



Oh, I can think of one alot more common.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: papaspot on November 25, 2006, 08:03:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaJayhawk

quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI

Teaching grammar these days is a "loosing" battle.
[}:)]


Man, that one drives me crazy.



There's only one common mistake more annoying THEN that one.



Oh, I can think of one alot more common.



LOL! Their not too hard to come up with once you get started. [}:)]
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: billintulsa on November 26, 2006, 06:49:35 PM
So far this thread has kept me spell bound!
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: papaspot on November 26, 2006, 07:45:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by billintulsa

So far this thread has kept me spell bound!



Oh, good one! GOOD one! I give ya a 9.6 on that one. [}:)]
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: PonderInc on November 27, 2006, 10:18:25 AM
The real question is:
"Is the children learning?"

For the record, I'm a notoriously bad speller.  But I'm good at etymology.  Or is that entomology?  I forget. :)
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: TulsaJayhawk on November 27, 2006, 10:46:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

I'm good at etymology.  Or is that entomology?  I forget. :)



I would suppose that etymology-entomology would be the study of how words bug you.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: okieinla on November 27, 2006, 04:51:09 PM
I could care less.  [:D]
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: sgrizzle on December 28, 2006, 08:56:27 AM
After my daughter got a "Disney Princess" backpack with "Bonu  Handba " for christmas I finally broke down and called Lamar Outdoor advertising to get them to correct their Coca-Cola sign at Sheridan & the BA advertising "Godiva belgain blends ... with the tast of Godiva chocolate."
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: tim huntzinger on December 28, 2006, 09:07:43 AM
I am amazed at how extensively contractions are used by media professionals.  Contractions do not help grammar and language skills at all.  Forget trying to speak proper English, just try going one day without contracting one's words.
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: sgrizzle on December 28, 2006, 09:46:50 AM
Good article on newspaper typos:
http://www.texaspress.com/messenger/february04/webb0204.htm
Title: Are grammar and spelling lost arts?
Post by: AMP on December 28, 2006, 04:13:56 PM
Back when people had landlines it did not matter if you dialed or pushed additional numbers past the 7 digits.  

However, when using a cell phone if you press more than the 7 digits, or 10 including the area code, and hit SEND you may get a recorded message and not the desired connection you are attempting to reach.

Thus the missing letters.