...the dude who said he knew who the forum's ten posters' were, what they ate for breakfast, who rotated their tires?
He get the boot, or just that topic?
I was looking forward to his follow up all day long.
Dang,
jdb
The jerkball sysadmin must have pulled the topic. I didn\'t say I knew who the top posters were ... I just said I knew weren\'t ... and to use okie english ... they \"weren\'t\" one of power brokers.
ROFLMAO!! Can you say CRAWFISH? [}:)]
If I remember correctly (and I do), you claimed to know where they live, where they work and what they drive. Be kinda hard to know all those things without even knowing who they ARE.
Looks to me like one of those alligator mouth/hummingbird donkey situations.
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
ROFLMAO!! Can you say CRAWFISH? [}:)]
If I remember correctly (and I do), you claimed to know where they live, where they work and what they drive. Be kinda hard to know all those things without even knowing who they ARE.
Looks to me like one of those alligator mouth/hummingbird donkey situations.
In a world of uncertainty, the one thing I am sure of is that none of the power brokers hail from a one horse burg like Olustee. But hey ... maybe you can be a power broker there considering the quality of competition ... like none!
So what is the profile of a power-broker in Tulsa? And just as important, what do you define as a power-broker?
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
ROFLMAO!! Can you say CRAWFISH? [}:)]
If I remember correctly (and I do), you claimed to know where they live, where they work and what they drive. Be kinda hard to know all those things without even knowing who they ARE.
Looks to me like one of those alligator mouth/hummingbird donkey situations.
In a world of uncertainty, the one thing I am sure of is that none of the power brokers hail from a one horse burg like Olustee. But hey ... maybe you can be a power broker there considering the quality of competition ... like none!
So does that mean that I'm one of the power broker wannabes that you've passed judgment on? Okay. Here are a few questions you shouldn't have any trouble answering. (It might take a LITTLE bit more effort than just clicking on the link in my signature, but I'm sure that you impressed a lot of people with your ability to do THAT.)
What do I eat for breakfast? What do I drive? Where do I work?
What's my position on the death penalty?
What's my party affiliation?
What's my position on abortion?
Where's the list, hummingbird? Can't provide the info you claimed you could provide? What a surprise. You're three quarters talk and one quarter troll. Or maybe it's the other way around.
Alright game back on.
But you can't worm out now, you said you knew details, Dude.
TOPIC SURVIVAL TIP: Stop calling admins. "jerkballs".
PC RULES: No posting full names, phone numbers, etc.
Now show us your Voodoo!
jdb
Which one of the top ten pulled building 7?[}:)]
Well I hope Tulitlikeitis hangs around. We need someone to do a bubble bursting and help us laugh at ourselves. Sometimes we are a little funny. Just a bunch of okies. Right? It makes it more like a little united nations to have someone taking the role of resident bubble burster.
Let it rip Tulitlikeitis. Don't hold back baby.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Which one of the top ten pulled building 7?[}:)]
I didn't DO it, nobody SAW me do it. They can't prove ANYTHING.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Well I hope Tulitlikeitis hangs around. We need someone to do a bubble bursting and help us laugh at ourselves. Sometimes we are a little funny. Just a bunch of okies. Right? It makes it more like a little united nations to have someone taking the role of resident bubble burster.
Let it rip Tulitlikeitis. Don't hold back baby.
LOL! This reminds me of sailors and Marines. Sailors and Marines will fight like dogs until an outsider comes in tryin' to start trouble. Then they're side by side to the end. [:D]
Just where in the heck has IP been? Bledsoe's scarcity is ill-timed since there are elections to rig.
Let us examine what some top posters in this forum do / live / are vs the Power Brokers.
1. Power Brokers would not live in West Tulsa ... but rwarn does
2. Power Brokers would not work at PSO ... but sgrizzle does
3. Power Brokers would not live north of Downtown ... but hometown does
4. Power Brokers would not be living in Jenks ... but swake does
5. Power Brokers would not have a blog about Olustee ... but papaspot does
And the list goes on and on.
That's only 5. Keep going. First let me assure you I am not one of the pb's. Admittedly a dreamer am I. But there's RM, PMcalk, Sendoff, and others.
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
Let us examine what some top posters in this forum do / live / are vs the Power Brokers.
1. Power Brokers would not live in West Tulsa ... but rwarn does
2. Power Brokers would not work at PSO ... but sgrizzle does
3. Power Brokers would not live north of Downtown ... but hometown does
4. Power Brokers would not be living in Jenks ... but swake does
5. Power Brokers would not have a blog about Olustee ... but papaspot does
And the list goes on and on.
You are just a regular Nostradamus aren't you? Keep on reading forum posts and sooner or later you should know the general area everyone lives/works. Some magic trick there. I'll save you the trouble, I live near 15th & Harvard and work off Hwy 75 in west Tulsa. I'll let you fill in the blanks on what I do for a living.
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
Let us examine what some top posters in this forum do / live / are vs the Power Brokers.
1. Power Brokers would not live in West Tulsa ... but rwarn does
2. Power Brokers would not work at PSO ... but sgrizzle does
3. Power Brokers would not live north of Downtown ... but hometown does
4. Power Brokers would not be living in Jenks ... but swake does
5. Power Brokers would not have a blog about Olustee ... but papaspot does
And the list goes on and on.
LOL! Nice try but no cigar. To begin with, the blog isn't about Olustee. There was ONE entry about that town among hundreds of other things. You didn't even get THAT rightand how hard could THAT have been? You also claimed to know what we eat and drive and where we work. You haven't told us squat. In fact, your attempt at an "answer" borders on comical. Again, no surprise.
Maybe you were confused by the questions so I'll ask 'em again.
Where do I live?
What do I drive?
What do I usually eat for breakfast? Lunch? Dinner?
What is my stance on capital punishment?
What is my stance on abortion?
Never mind. I'm wasting my time with you, hummingbird.
Okay, HERE'S the truth and I think it's pretty well documented here and in the other thread. The TRUTH is that tulitlikeitis is just doing a little trolling. He or she doesn't know squat--he's just talking tough (like an alligator). He strikes me as one of those really shallow people who try to make themselves look big by trying to make other people look foolish. Problem is, it backfired on him big time.
What kind of people accuse other people of trying to be power brokers for doing nothing more than expressing their opinions on a message board? Those that are sincere are called idiots. Those that are insincere are called trolls.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Just where in the heck has IP been? Bledsoe's scarcity is ill-timed since there are elections to rig.
I've been wondering about IP myself.
Wow ... at one time, tulitlikeitis actually THOUGHT I was a power broker.
[}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
Wow ... at one time, tulitlikeitis actually THOUGHT I was a power broker.
[}:)]
I think he's got a bad case of STAR ENVY. (http://www.myoklahomalife.net/images/tulsa_now/icon_star_gold.gif)(http://www.myoklahomalife.net/images/tulsa_now/icon_star_gold.gif)(http://www.myoklahomalife.net/images/tulsa_now/icon_star_gold.gif)(http://www.myoklahomalife.net/images/tulsa_now/icon_star_gold.gif)(http://www.myoklahomalife.net/images/tulsa_now/icon_star_gold.gif) [}:)]
As one of the real power brokers, let me assure you that tulitlikeitis wouldn't know anything about us.
Each of have a special power, kinda like the TV show "Heroes".
My power is extra special, I'm rubber, and he is glue.
I have the power to clear a large room simply by relaxing one muscle. [xx(]
Personal attack removed
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
I have the power to clear a large room simply by relaxing one muscle. [xx(]
Which reminds me of that movie where each guy's super-powers were slightly off: one guy had bad gas, one wacked people with shovels, one flung bowling balls, another threw cutlery, one got really angry, and one was invisible...as long as no one was looking. Such a bad movie it was fun. Much like this forum topic.
Mystery Men, excellent documentary!
Didn't figure I'd make the PB cut: but I had hopes of getting an honorable mention.
"I prefer topic's that are hard to read with a straight face, myself." - jdb
His thread woke up the room, he managed to make himself look ignorant and a bit on the stalker side.
It's a new day and after it's all said and done - I still don't care who he is or what he is about.
quote:
Originally posted by Sangria
His thread woke up the room, he managed to make himself look ignorant and a bit on the stalker side.
That was my first thought. If he really DID know all he claimed to know, he'd have to be a stalker. But I wasn't too worried for two reasons. 1. I knew he was full of crap and 2. I'm well armed. [}:)]
But I expect we've seen the last of him. Most trolls don't hang around after they realize that they've failed to get everyone stirred up and pissed off.
Quit? ... Not likely. I have managed to keep folks continually pissed off here for a couple of years and do not plan to quit anytime soon.
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
Quit? ... Not likely. I have managed to keep folks continually pissed off here for a couple of years and do not plan to quit anytime soon.
You flatter yourself (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/Davaz.jpg)
Most just think of you as a burned out old queen.......[:(]
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
As one of the real power brokers, let me assure you that tulitlikeitis wouldn't know anything about us.
Each of have a special power, kinda like the TV show "Heroes".
My power is extra special, I'm rubber, and he is glue.
Yeah, and we know plenty about him.
(http://www.fontcraft.com/campaign/photo.jpg)
If I was on "Heroes" then I wanna be "Hiro"
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
As one of the real power brokers, let me assure you that tulitlikeitis wouldn't know anything about us.
Each of have a special power, kinda like the TV show "Heroes".
My power is extra special, I'm rubber, and he is glue.
Yeah, and we know plenty about him.
(http://www.fontcraft.com/campaign/photo.jpg)
If I was on "Heroes" then I wanna be "Hiro"
is that really him?
i never pictured him that old, bald, fat and wonky-eyed...
This better?
(http://www.fontcraft.com/campaign/me3.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
Quit? ... Not likely. I have managed to keep folks continually pissed off here for a couple of years and do not plan to quit anytime soon.
That's the clearest admission to being a troll that I've ever seen. But you still haven't delivered what you said you could deliver. 'Course I doubt if anyone took your claim seriously in the first place.
As far as anyone being pissed off, I'm afraid you failed even at that. I haven't seen anyone in this thread that looked pissed off to me. Looks like you're a failure even at being a troll. [}:)]
You do have some limited success as a clown. I know I'VE been pretty entertained by your buffoonery. [}:)]
I'm not pissed off. I'm amused that keep coming back to be ridiculed.
Must have a masochistic thing going.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
I'm not pissed off. I'm amused that keep coming back to be ridiculed.
Must have a masochistic thing going.
He also claimed to have been pissing people off here for two years but his profile says that he has a grand total of 26 posts with an average of 0.54 posts per day so he can't have been a member under THIS user name for two months. So he's either lying again or he's a sock puppet in addition to being a troll. [}:)]
It's pretty hard to take anyone like that as anything other than a joke.
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
I'm not pissed off. I'm amused that keep coming back to be ridiculed.
Must have a masochistic thing going.
He also claimed to have been pissing people off here for two years but his profile says that he has a grand total of 26 posts with an average of 26 0.54 posts per day so he can't have been a member under THIS user name for two months. So he's either lying again or he's a sock puppet in addition to being a troll. [}:)]
It's pretty hard to take anyone like that as anything other than a joke.
He's been kicked off the boards repeatedly (starting with the name DAVAZ) and keeps coming back under different names. He has a obsession with this board to replenish his narcissistic supply.
Publicity (celebrity or notoriety, being famous or being infamous) is a trigger of narcissistic supply because it provokes people to pay attention to the narcissist (in other words, it moves sources to provide the narcissist with narcissistic supply). Publicity can be obtained by exposing oneself, by creating something, or by provoking attention. The narcissist resorts to all three repeatedly (as drug addicts do to secure their daily dose). http://samvak.tripod.com/faq76.html
I did not say I knew who the \\\"power brokers\\\" were but I did say I knew who they were not ... ie, I knew that they were not frequent posters to this board. Let\\\'s review the bidding again:
Power Brokers are NOT / do NOT:
Live in West Tulsa
Live in East Tulsa
Live north of Downtown or heaven forbid in
North Tulsa
Former corrections officers
IT Employees of PSO
Discuss mexican resturants on a forum
Post blogs called \\\"My Okie Life\\\"
Have nicknames like \\\"Okiebybirth\\\"
(you would think he would hide it)
Keeping the record straight
Tell me again why I am not a power broker.
I always wanted to be one. Maybe with your guidance, I can.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
Tell me again why I am not a power broker.
I always wanted to be one. Maybe with your guidance, I can.
IMO, this troll has had enough to eat. As long as we keep feeding it, it'll keep trolling.
quote:
Originally posted by okiebybirth
He's been kicked off the boards repeatedly (starting with the name DAVAZ) and keeps coming back under different names. He has a obsession with this board to replenish his narcissistic supply.
I guess petty little people have to get attention for themselves somehow. My theory is that they lack the social skills to even recognize how their attempts to make other people look like fools generally only result in making themselves look like fools. They are amusing for a little while but they're usually one trick ponies who just keep rehashing the same old bait until people get bored with them and leave them to play with themselves. They're obviously not very creative.
(http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/i/I/clinton_sockpuppet.jpg)
(http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/04/images/02sockpuppet.gif)
Davaz #11 here started on 9/21. The fact that his posts are full of backslashes is because he is posting via an anonymizer. I'm quite surprised he didn't try to deny the pictures.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Davaz #11 here started on 9/21. The fact that his posts are full of backslashes is because he is posting via an anonymizer. I'm quite surprised he didn't try to deny the pictures.
So the goof ball in the picture is him? THAT'S kind of ironic. He makes all these bold claims to know all this personal information about everyone but he hasn't posted a PICTURE of anyone. Hell, he hasn't even posted anything that isn't readily available to anyone who doesn't have anything better to do than look around in the Internet for a coupla minutes. [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Davaz #11 here started on 9/21. The fact that his posts are full of backslashes is because he is posting via an anonymizer. I\'m quite surprised he didn\'t try to deny the pictures.
Actually it is #12
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Davaz #11 here started on 9/21. The fact that his posts are full of backslashes is because he is posting via an anonymizer. I\'m quite surprised he didn\'t try to deny the pictures.
Actually it is #12
I wasn't counting "backagain" because you never completed the registration. I can only come up with 9 off the top of my head this early in the morning..
Davaz
TheCritic
TheTruth
TheWord
TheWay
Dnalle
Troostman
Tulitlikeitis
BackAgain
The reality is, for someone to effect the board in a meaningful manner - the people on that board would have to acknowlege that person as being intelligent and lucrative.
If posts by a person are just there to incite a riot they are not important and nothing that will ever matter in any discussion.
I see his name, I expect nothing intelligent and I am never disappointed. [}:)]
I think it's pretty freakin' funny that not only has our self-proclaimed "Resident Stalker" has ANYONE that wasn't already readily available, but that quite a bit of info (including a nice mug shot) has been posted on HIM. Sweet irony. [:D]
But seriously, folks, I'd like to thank tulitlikeitis or Davaz #11 or whatever his nom de jour is for posting so many plugs for my blog. I always appreciate free advertising. [}:)]
Speaking of power broker wannabes...
http://www.fontcraft.com/campaign/index.html
(http://www.myoklahomalife.net/wp-images/smilies/laugh.gif)
I have received my "Power Broker" membership card and I plan to carry it in my wallet.
My plan to broker power is to break it into affordable pieces and sell them on EBay.
Don't tell me I am not a power broker.
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael
I have received my "Power Broker" membership card and I plan to carry it in my wallet.
My plan to broker power is to break it into affordable pieces and sell them on EBay.
Don't tell me I am not a power broker.
Oi! Are you gonna have a "buy now" option?? Please, please??
Not only is Davaz an idiot, he's a liar. According to the bio on his campaign site, he's never lived in Tulsa... he's "always" lived in Austin (since 1982).
http://www.fontcraft.com/campaign/bio.html
Davaz, my friend...you're running for public office?
Oh yeah... [;)]
There is so much dirt on this forum, lol...
I'm calling up News 8 right now.
what an ignorant piece of ****... he never lived here? pancakes?
Not according to his bio. Of course, there are many sides of Davaz.
There's a lot more out there if you dig. His house looks nice at least.
And the hunter shall become the hunted. [}:)]
Let's have a bunch of pizzas delivered to his house or sign him up for magazine subscriptions.
Here is more info from his blog...
http://www.blogger.com/profile/4789549
I like this one.
http://blogcritics.org/writer/dave_nalle
His personal website is filled with wild political views...
http://www.elitistpig.com/
It is well named.
Nah, that's not him, he's not smart enough to have an advanced degree. He's just some poor sad, drunk porn loving high-school drop-out living with his trailer park wife and her white trash mom in some dump in the hood in Houston.
He must be a busy guy. Look at all the position papers he's written:
Position Papers
The Environment
State Highway 130
The War on Drugs
Gun Rights
Education
Universal Living Wage
Globalization
Asset Forfeiture
Racial Profiling
Unfortunately, none of the links seem to work. They're not broken, they're just not LINKED to anything. [}:)]
Here's an interesting clip from one of his many profiles:
At F&M he headed the student chapter of Students for a Libertarian Society and worked as a regional organizer for the Ed Clark presidential campaign in 1980. During and after college Dave had a variety of political staff jobs in Washington, including working for Al Gore at the Congressional Clearinghouse on the Future as a newsletter editor, at the National Republican Senatorial Committee, and as publications director for Students for a Libertarian Society, where he edited Liberty magazine.
This guy's all over the board. [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by swake
Nah, that's not him, he's not smart enough to have an advanced degree. He's just some poor sad, drunk porn loving high-school drop-out living with his trailer park wife and her white trash mom in some dump in the hood in Houston.
Oh, it IS him. He's just lying about the degrees. If you cross-check the links and pictures, you'll see that they're all the same person. 'Course the claimed bio routinely varies to the point of contradiction between one site and the next. [}:)]
I knew this group was stupid ... but how stupid I just realized. Let me get this straight.
In one of davaz's many TulsaNow registrations he uses the made up name ... David Nalle. He also uses that name in a Letter to the Editor for the Tulsa World blog.
The members of this board think that that is his real name (via Google search) and post the picture of a TX legislator and / or a font designer born in Beirut.
Think about it ... why would either of these folks with no connection to Oklahoma post on a Tulsa board? Talk about stupid! Also think about another thing ... why would davaz ever post his real name in the registration? The only one I know stupid enough to do that is Jim Jam Jammie aka Lynn Triebe of Mitchell SD.
The real davaz lived in Tulsa from Fall 2003 to August 2004 ... you have enough info to figure it out but you never will.
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
why would either of these folks with no connection to Oklahoma post on a Tulsa board? Talk about stupid!
Couldn't agree more -- since you no longer have any connection to Oklahoma, you truly are stupid for posting here!
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Texas legislators lived double lives in Oklahoma... [:O]
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
I knew this group was stupid ... but how stupid I just realized. Let me get this straight.
In one of davaz's many TulsaNow registrations he uses the made up name ... David Nalle. He also uses that name in a Letter to the Editor for the Tulsa World blog.
The members of this board think that that is his real name (via Google search) and post the picture of a TX legislator and / or a font designer born in Beirut.
Think about it ... why would either of these folks with no connection to Oklahoma post on a Tulsa board? Talk about stupid! Also think about another thing ... why would davaz ever post his real name in the registration? The only one I know stupid enough to do that is Jim Jam Jammie aka Lynn Triebe of Mitchell SD.
The real davaz lived in Tulsa from Fall 2003 to August 2004 ... you have enough info to figure it out but you never will.
Okay, Dave, I believe ya. Yep. I mean, who WOULDN'T believe somebody who's had eleven or twelve different user names?
You may or may not be Dave Nalle, who cares? One thing we DO know is that you're a fraud, a liar and a troll. But you're not smart enough to pull any of those roles off successfully so you keep getting your donkey handed to you.
And you keep coming back for more. [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
I knew this group was stupid ... but how stupid I just realized. Let me get this straight.
In one of davaz's many TulsaNow registrations he uses the made up name ... David Nalle. He also uses that name in a Letter to the Editor for the Tulsa World blog.
The members of this board think that that is his real name (via Google search) and post the picture of a TX legislator and / or a font designer born in Beirut.
Think about it ... why would either of these folks with no connection to Oklahoma post on a Tulsa board? Talk about stupid! Also think about another thing ... why would davaz ever post his real name in the registration? The only one I know stupid enough to do that is Jim Jam Jammie aka Lynn Triebe of Mitchell SD.
The real davaz lived in Tulsa from Fall 2003 to August 2004 ... you have enough info to figure it out but you never will.
You used that name with Bates as well.
Oh, and here is a post by David Nalle about Tulsa and Lonnie Latham:
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/01/06/050812.php
While I find davaz's challenge intriguing, I think the clues are lacking.
The real mystery with Davaz is what happened to cause him to leave Tulsa a second time. As he tells the story he is a Tulsa native in his late 50s who returned to Tulsa after living in several other cities. He had purchased an expensive home and relocated here with his wife. And everything was fine until suddenly one morning he woke up and realized how backwards Tulsa is.
I suspect there is something missing in the story Davas tells. Like an event that caused the change of heart. I think that's the mystery here.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
The real mystery with Davaz is what happened to cause him to leave Tulsa a second time. As he tells the story he is a Tulsa native in his late 50s who returned to Tulsa after living in several other cities. He had purchased an expensive home and relocated here with his wife. And everything was fine until suddenly one morning he woke up and realized how backwards Tulsa is.
I suspect there is something missing in the story Davas tells. Like an event that caused the change of heart. I think that's the mystery here.
Something missing... you mean like, the truth? yeah, that's frequently missing from his posts.
Forgot this davaz name:
w1x6au
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
The real mystery with Davaz is what happened to cause him to leave Tulsa a second time. As he tells the story he is a Tulsa native in his late 50s who returned to Tulsa after living in several other cities. He had purchased an expensive home and relocated here with his wife. And everything was fine until suddenly one morning he woke up and realized how backwards Tulsa is.
I suspect there is something missing in the story Davas tells. Like an event that caused the change of heart. I think that's the mystery here.
His mother in law was living with him, and she didn't like him and was a Baptist.
And I'm not kidding, this I think is the real reason he hates Tulsa, it's displaced (he's got lots to displace) anger against his wife and her mother. She's a bigot, from what he says, but then he's a bigot of another stripe (hates people for the sin of not having as much money as he does, or for not being of his kind of religion)
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
The real mystery with Davaz is what happened to cause him to leave Tulsa a second time. As he tells the story he is a Tulsa native in his late 50s who returned to Tulsa after living in several other cities. He had purchased an expensive home and relocated here with his wife. And everything was fine until suddenly one morning he woke up and realized how backwards Tulsa is.
I suspect there is something missing in the story Davas tells. Like an event that caused the change of heart. I think that\'s the mystery here.
His mother in law was living with him, and she didn\'t like him and was a Baptist.
And I\'m not kidding, this I think is the real reason he hates Tulsa, it\'s displaced (he\'s got lots to displace) anger against his wife and her mother. She\'s a bigot, from what he says, but then he\'s a bigot of another stripe (hates people for the sin of not having as much money as he does, or for not being of his kind of religion)
What a bunch of crapola. Davaz never said his mother in law was a Baptist. Davaz also said he disliked Tulsa for being so backward ... Hometown is correct.
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
The real mystery with Davaz is what happened to cause him to leave Tulsa a second time. As he tells the story he is a Tulsa native in his late 50s who returned to Tulsa after living in several other cities. He had purchased an expensive home and relocated here with his wife. And everything was fine until suddenly one morning he woke up and realized how backwards Tulsa is.
I suspect there is something missing in the story Davas tells. Like an event that caused the change of heart. I think that\'s the mystery here.
His mother in law was living with him, and she didn\'t like him and was a Baptist.
And I\'m not kidding, this I think is the real reason he hates Tulsa, it\'s displaced (he\'s got lots to displace) anger against his wife and her mother. She\'s a bigot, from what he says, but then he\'s a bigot of another stripe (hates people for the sin of not having as much money as he does, or for not being of his kind of religion)
What a bunch of crapola. Davaz never said his mother in law was a Baptist. Davaz also said he disliked Tulsa for being so backward ... Hometown is correct.
Since you've pretty much admitted to being another incarnation of davaz:
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
Davaz #11 here started on 9/21. The fact that his posts are full of backslashes is because he is posting via an anonymizer. I\'m quite surprised he didn\'t try to deny the pictures.
Actually it is #12
Why do you refer to yourself in third person? S'matter, Dave? Can you not even keep up with your own lies Dave? [}:)]
And if you're NOT a liar, why are/were you using an anonymizer?
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
Why do you refer to yourself in third person? S'matter, Dave? Can you not even keep up with your own lies Dave? [}:)]
And if you're NOT a liar, why are/were you using an anonymizer?
He's using the anonymizer because he thinks it keeps us from blocking him. The effect is temporary at best.
The real problem with blocking davaz, is how much time should the site admin spend trying to stop one out-of-control fanboy?
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
The real mystery with Davaz is what happened to cause him to leave Tulsa a second time. As he tells the story he is a Tulsa native in his late 50s who returned to Tulsa after living in several other cities. He had purchased an expensive home and relocated here with his wife. And everything was fine until suddenly one morning he woke up and realized how backwards Tulsa is.
I suspect there is something missing in the story Davas tells. Like an event that caused the change of heart. I think that's the mystery here.
His mother in law was living with him, and she didn't like him and was a Baptist.
And I'm not kidding, this I think is the real reason he hates Tulsa, it's displaced (he's got lots to displace) anger against his wife and her mother. She's a bigot, from what he says, but then he's a bigot of another stripe (hates people for the sin of not having as much money as he does, or for not being of his kind of religion)
Thanks Swake. That has the ring of truth to it.
I think we have an opportunity to get to the root of the situation. He admits his mother-in-law was living with him. So perhaps instead of deciding to ditch Tulsa overnight, Davaz came around to this decision slowly with the accumulation of bad feeling for his mother-in-law. I can certainly understand bad chemistry between people. And I can understand that bad chemistry coloring his feelings towards Tulsa.
Davaz, you claim that your dissatisfaction with Tulsa happened overnight. I have suspected that you had a run in with the police or some other similar disturbing event. Would you be willing to lay out in detail the feelings and events that you experienced that lead you to discover that Tulsa is backwards?
Is your mother-in-law living with you now?
I don't think there is anyone out there that is going to be more understanding of your situation than Tulsans – especially native Tulsans. We native Tulsans have a very strong bond.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Quote...your situation than Tulsans – especially native Tulsans. We native Tulsans have a very strong bond.
...and an innate dislike of mother-in-laws'.
Seriously though, you aren't really interested in the guys story, are you?
I smell a set-up, jdb
Yes, I'm honestly eager to get the root of the Davaz story.
Critics can contribute a lot but I think there is something more to his criticism than he is sharing with us. There is a sizeable hole in his story. In a way Davaz owes us a more complete story and I don't think it is right to keep turning him away.
Wednesday, November 29, 2006
To: Tellitlikeitis / Davaz,
Thank you Davaz for your email and private messages. You may recall that over a year ago we exchanged some emails and at that time I asked you what was the truth about your story and you denied that there was anything else to tell.
I don't believe it would be productive for you and me to exchange any more private messages or emails. I believe you should talk to the group.
Swake has given us his considered opinion about why you abruptly became so disillusioned with Tulsa that you sold your new home to relocate to Texas.
Would you please address Swake's statement?
As for me, I don't believe you ever learned anything about Tulsa that you didn't already know. I think you aren't telling us about an event or a series of events that led you to abandon Tulsa.
I know that Tulsa has plenty of faults. And I'm also very understanding of being human. I'm ready to listen to your story. I would appreciate it very much if you would come clean with me and the other folks here.
Now I really smell a rat.
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
Now I really smell a rat.
Naw, Hometown's legit. You smell a rat cause you live within a mile of the river! They get pretty big over here.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Wednesday, November 29, 2006
To: Tellitlikeitis / Davaz,
Thank you Davaz for your email and private messages. You may recall that over a year ago we exchanged some emails and at that time I asked you what was the truth about your story and you denied that there was anything else to tell.
I don't believe it would be productive for you and me to exchange any more private messages or emails. I believe you should talk to the group.
Swake has given us his considered opinion about why you abruptly became so disillusioned with Tulsa that you sold your new home to relocate to Texas.
Would you please address Swake's statement?
As for me, I don't believe you ever learned anything about Tulsa that you didn't already know. I think you aren't telling us about an event or a series of events that led you to abandon Tulsa.
I know that Tulsa has plenty of faults. And I'm also very understanding of being human. I'm ready to listen to your story. I would appreciate it very much if you would come clean with me and the other folks here.
The story is still the same;
1. Davaz was born in Tulsa and educated in Tulsa Public Schools until mid high school.
2. Davaz has a PhD in Engineering from a large out of state school.
3. Davaz has lived in Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, NYC, London and Scottsdale
4. Davaz retired from a large energy company at the executive level
5. Davaz now works for himself trading bonds
6. Davaz moved to Tulsa in late 2003 purchasing a home in the area between Woodward Park and Utica Square
7. Davaz sold the home 8 months later and moved to Houston – reason was backwardness of Tulsa and OK in general
8. Davaz now lives in the Uptown / Tanglewood area in Houston ... near our former President's house
9. Davaz has never been in trouble with the law outside of a traffic ticket
10. Davaz's decision to move had nothing to do with his mother in law (and she has never been a Baptist)
11. Davaz's real name is not David Nalle ... what a joke!
And if you do not think Tulsa is backward, consider this for a moment. Can you imagine a group of civic minded types (like TulsaNow) in LA, NYC, Chicago, Denver, Portland, Washington etc fervently discussing pro's and con's of a crummy amusement park (eg, Bells)? I can't.
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
The story is still the same;
1. Davaz was born in Tulsa and educated in Tulsa Public Schools until mid high school.
2. Davaz has a PhD in Engineering from a large out of state school.
3. Davaz has lived in Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, NYC, London and Scottsdale
4. Davaz retired from a large energy company at the executive level
5. Davaz now works for himself trading bonds
6. Davaz moved to Tulsa in late 2003 purchasing a home in the area between Woodward Park and Utica Square
7. Davaz sold the home 8 months later and moved to Houston – reason was backwardness of Tulsa and OK in general
8. Davaz now lives in the Uptown / Tanglewood area in Houston ... near our former President's house
9. Davaz has never been in trouble with the law outside of a traffic ticket
10. Davaz's decision to move had nothing to do with his mother in law (and she has never been a Baptist)
11. Davaz's real name is not David Nalle ... what a joke! [M'thinks Mr. Davaz doth protest too much.]
And if you do not think Tulsa is backward, consider this for a moment. Can you imagine a group of civic minded types (like TulsaNow) in LA, NYC, Chicago, Denver, Portland, Washington etc fervently discussing pro's and con's of a crummy amusement park (eg, Bells)? I can't.
HEY, Skippy! Dincha read the SIGN?? What, are you above the rules?!
(http://members.cox.net/foxfarms/tulsanow/no_bs.png)
Now for the REAL story.
- Davaz graduated without honors from a small suburban Texas high school
- Davaz went one and a half semesters to a local community college but he dropped out because he couldn't afford to pay tuition AND buy dope
- Davaz is the assistant night manager at a Jack-in-the-Box
- Davaz fancies himself politician and a public leader but he's never been elected to any office because people consider him a joke (he's kind of a "Texas Tay")
- Davaz spends his spare time (of which he has a lot because his wife dumped him a few years back and he can't get a girlfriend) trolling on message boards around the country
- Davaz hates anyone who discusses any form of politics because he is himself a political reject
- Davaz has a psychopathic (or psychopathetic) condition that causes him to suffer dillusions of grandeur
- Davaz knows the people of every city in the U.S. discuss it's local interests on message boards but he tries to make a big issue of it because that's his facade d'jour
- Davaz is a sad pathetic little man that hates people and has no friend in the world
- Davaz has already proven himself a fraud by hiding behind almost a dozen different user names (if he's for real, why does he hide?)
Sound more believable? It sure does to me.
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
The story is still the same;
1. Davaz was born in Tulsa and educated in Tulsa Public Schools until mid high school.
2. Davaz has a PhD in Engineering from a large out of state school.
3. Davaz has lived in Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, NYC, London and Scottsdale
4. Davaz retired from a large energy company at the executive level
5. Davaz now works for himself trading bonds
6. Davaz moved to Tulsa in late 2003 purchasing a home in the area between Woodward Park and Utica Square
7. Davaz sold the home 8 months later and moved to Houston – reason was backwardness of Tulsa and OK in general
8. Davaz now lives in the Uptown / Tanglewood area in Houston ... near our former President's house
9. Davaz has never been in trouble with the law outside of a traffic ticket
10. Davaz's decision to move had nothing to do with his mother in law (and she has never been a Baptist)
11. Davaz's real name is not David Nalle ... what a joke! [M'thinks Mr. Davaz doth protest too much.]
And if you do not think Tulsa is backward, consider this for a moment. Can you imagine a group of civic minded types (like TulsaNow) in LA, NYC, Chicago, Denver, Portland, Washington etc fervently discussing pro's and con's of a crummy amusement park (eg, Bells)? I can't.
HEY, Skippy! Dincha read the SIGN?? What, are you above the rules?!
(http://members.cox.net/foxfarms/tulsanow/no_bs.png)
Now for the REAL story.
- Davaz graduated without honors from a small suburban Texas high school
- Davaz went one and a half semesters to a local community college but he dropped out because he couldn't afford to pay tuition AND buy dope
- Davaz is the assistant night manager at a Jack-in-the-Box
- Davaz fancies himself politician and a public leader but he's never been elected to any office because people consider him a joke (he's kind of a "Texas Tay")
- Davaz spends his spare time (of which he has a lot because his wife dumped him a few years back and he can't get a girlfriend) trolling on message boards around the country
- Davaz hates anyone who discusses any form of politics because he is himself a political reject
- Davaz has a psychopathic (or psychopathetic) condition that causes him to suffer dillusions of grandeur
- Davaz knows the people of every city in the U.S. discuss it's local interests on message boards but he tries to make a big issue of it because that's his facade d'jour
- Davaz is a sad pathetic little man that hates people and has no friend in the world
- Davaz has already proven himself a fraud by hiding behind almost a dozen different user names (if he's for real, why does he hide?)
Sound more believable? It sure does to me.
I can prove it all ... want to take a 10K$ bet? You name to the attorney to do document verification. Want to lose some money?
Wow... did we just get a Top 10 for Davaz refering to himself in the 3rd person?... cool.
Top Ten Most Ridiculous 3rd Person References
http://www.bigskydemocrats.org/node/249
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
quote:
Originally posted by papaspot
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
The story is still the same;
1. Davaz was born in Tulsa and educated in Tulsa Public Schools until mid high school.
2. Davaz has a PhD in Engineering from a large out of state school.
3. Davaz has lived in Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, NYC, London and Scottsdale
4. Davaz retired from a large energy company at the executive level
5. Davaz now works for himself trading bonds
6. Davaz moved to Tulsa in late 2003 purchasing a home in the area between Woodward Park and Utica Square
7. Davaz sold the home 8 months later and moved to Houston – reason was backwardness of Tulsa and OK in general
8. Davaz now lives in the Uptown / Tanglewood area in Houston ... near our former President's house
9. Davaz has never been in trouble with the law outside of a traffic ticket
10. Davaz's decision to move had nothing to do with his mother in law (and she has never been a Baptist)
11. Davaz's real name is not David Nalle ... what a joke! [M'thinks Mr. Davaz doth protest too much.]
And if you do not think Tulsa is backward, consider this for a moment. Can you imagine a group of civic minded types (like TulsaNow) in LA, NYC, Chicago, Denver, Portland, Washington etc fervently discussing pro's and con's of a crummy amusement park (eg, Bells)? I can't.
HEY, Skippy! Dincha read the SIGN?? What, are you above the rules?!
(http://members.cox.net/foxfarms/tulsanow/no_bs.png)
Now for the REAL story.
- Davaz graduated without honors from a small suburban Texas high school
- Davaz went one and a half semesters to a local community college but he dropped out because he couldn't afford to pay tuition AND buy dope
- Davaz is the assistant night manager at a Jack-in-the-Box
- Davaz fancies himself politician and a public leader but he's never been elected to any office because people consider him a joke (he's kind of a "Texas Tay")
- Davaz spends his spare time (of which he has a lot because his wife dumped him a few years back and he can't get a girlfriend) trolling on message boards around the country
- Davaz hates anyone who discusses any form of politics because he is himself a political reject
- Davaz has a psychopathic (or psychopathetic) condition that causes him to suffer dillusions of grandeur
- Davaz knows the people of every city in the U.S. discuss it's local interests on message boards but he tries to make a big issue of it because that's his facade d'jour
- Davaz is a sad pathetic little man that hates people and has no friend in the world
- Davaz has already proven himself a fraud by hiding behind almost a dozen different user names (if he's for real, why does he hide?)
Sound more believable? It sure does to me.
I can prove it all ... want to take a 10K$ bet? You name to the attorney to do document verification. Want to lose some money?
Who cares? I already know what you are- a very typical texas a**hole. There are many like you.
Davaz, Thank you for answering my question. I would appreciate it if you would give us some more detail on Point No. 7.
"Davaz sold the home 8 months later and moved to Houston – reason was backwardness of Tulsa and OK in general."
Specifically, what did you see or experience that led you to conclude that Tulsa and Oklahoma were backward?
Also, wondering if you are still married to the same woman? Did your mother-in-law move with you or stay in Tulsa?
Azbadpuppy, Davaz is not a typical Texan, he is a native Tulsan living in Texas.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Davaz, Thank you for answering my question. I would appreciate it if you would give us some more detail on Point No. 7.
"Davaz sold the home 8 months later and moved to Houston – reason was backwardness of Tulsa and OK in general."
Specifically, what did you see or experience that led you to conclude that Tulsa and Oklahoma were backward?
Also, wondering if you are still married to the same woman? Did your mother-in-law move with you or stay in Tulsa?
Azbadpuppy, Davaz is not a typical Texan, he is a native Tulsan living in Texas.
Where have you been living? On another planet? You must be blind.
If you have come from the Bay area as you said, the backwardness should be plain to see ... it sure was to me. If you don't see it, no amount of words from me would point it out. You see it everywhere ... cars people drive, their dress, food preferences ... everything.
Like I said before ... Tulsa is the land that time forgot.
By the way, leave characterizations of native this and native that to me. I may have been born there but I am surely not of there ... and there is a difference.
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Davaz, Thank you for answering my question. I would appreciate it if you would give us some more detail on Point No. 7.
"Davaz sold the home 8 months later and moved to Houston – reason was backwardness of Tulsa and OK in general."
Specifically, what did you see or experience that led you to conclude that Tulsa and Oklahoma were backward?
Also, wondering if you are still married to the same woman? Did your mother-in-law move with you or stay in Tulsa?
Azbadpuppy, Davaz is not a typical Texan, he is a native Tulsan living in Texas.
Where have you been living? On another planet? You must be blind.
If you have come from the Bay area as you said, the backwardness should be plain to see ... it sure was to me. If you don't see it, no amount of words from me would point it out. You see it everywhere ... cars people drive, their dress, food preferences ... everything.
Like I said before ... Tulsa is the land that time forgot.
By the way, leave characterizations of native this and native that to me. I may have been born there but I am surely not of there ... and there is a difference.
I have lived in New York, London, & San Francisco among other places and I have no idea what you are talking about. Honestly you just sound like a typical hating Texan that tries pathetically to justify the crappy place you live by putting down Tulsa. Yawn.
And you certainly are not of Tulsa. That much IS obvious.
Davaz, you didn't respond to my question about your family. And you didn't really lay out any specific examples of backwardness. In the past I've seen you respond to topics about religious extremists. But beyond that I can't really speculate about what you find backwards.
You paint an attractive picture of yourself. I imagine that you are skipping over some less flattering aspects of your story.
One glaring point in your story that you haven't mentioned is your repeated return to the place that you say you dislike so much. Your frequent visits to TulsaNow says there is still something you want from Tulsa. And the fact that it is in someway fulfilling for you to take on various personalities to repeatedly criticize Tulsa is quite neurotic.
Now to really reach any consensus or to even begin to understand each other we need to understand what we value.
I would agree with you that on many levels Tulsa is mediocre. You site some great retail in Texas and I would say to you that the shopping in Dallas is nearly unrivaled in the United States. And the retail in Tulsa is pretty sad. So what.
I don't think many worldly Tulsans are going to tell you that Tulsa is a really serious contender for the biggest, baddest, mostest in any category. Tulsa was a golden girl. She was great early in her life. And she hasn't been the center of anything since the 1920s. But she was great once and bits and pieces of that remain.
Don't get me wrong. I love fancy stores, and world-class museums and all the things that giant urban areas have to offer and none of those things are here. And I love here. I love here because it is where I am from and it is my measure, my standard. I am genuinely excited by the sight of Tracy Park just because I played there as a boy. I am thrilled by the simplest things here.
Tulsa is small and comfortable and the pace is human and she still has great physical charm.
Did you ever play at Bells when you were a kid? Sure it's rinky dink to fuss over the future of an amusement park. That's part of the attraction here. Life is simple enough that we can take time to fuss over Bells.
Now I can understand what happened to you. I hear you Davaz. Maybe someday I'll hear the rest of the story. I'm sorry Tulsa didn't work out for you.
What I don't understand is why you didn't anticipate what you would find in Tulsa. And I don't understand why you can't let go.
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
Whats my name
Tell me, baby, whats my name
Tell me, sweetie, whats my name
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
Come on Double A. He aint all that.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Come on Double A. He aint all that.
Yeah, more like a puffed up person who finds himself dismissed by the natives as unpleasant company.
Hometown - Waterboys nod aside, isn't it nuerotic to expects reason from a nuerotic?
http://www.queendom.com/tests/minitests/fx/neurotic.html
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
Whats my name
Tell me, baby, whats my name
Tell me, sweetie, whats my name
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
Personally.... I find any comparisom between a song written about Kenneth Anger and dribble from a leaky sh%#..hole.... an insult to mankind... but that is just me..
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Come on Double A. He aint all that.
Yeah, more like a puffed up person who finds himself dismissed by the natives as unpleasant company.
Hometown - Waterboys nod aside, isn't it nuerotic to expects reason from a nuerotic?
http://www.queendom.com/tests/minitests/fx/neurotic.html
Well I was hopeful that we could resolve something. And I think it's important for Tulsa Now to allow serious criticism of Tulsa. But it doesn't look like Davaz can deliver meaningful criticism. He couldn't spell out any specifics. Am I neurotic? Oh sure. Know any good therapists?
You're better than me, Hometown. You're trying to be a nice guy and reach out to him. His indifferent response show him to be the jerk he really is.
[/quote]
Where have you been living? On another planet? You must be blind.
If you have come from the Bay area as you said, the backwardness should be plain to see ... it sure was to me. If you don't see it, no amount of words from me would point it out. You see it everywhere ... cars people drive, their dress, food preferences ... everything.
Like I said before ... Tulsa is the land that time forgot.
By the way, leave characterizations of native this and native that to me. I may have been born there but I am surely not of there ... and there is a difference.
[/quote]
Typical Texan, especially one from the hot, muggy, bug infested swamp they call Houston. I've been to your "fair" city Davaz and you couldn't pay me any amount of money to live in that hell-hole. As for Tulsa being "backward" please cite some examples. You say the clothes that people wear and the cars they drive are examples, well - I have seen more backwater types driving bondo'd camaros in and around Houston than I've ever seen around here.
Tuck Fexicans!
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Davaz, you didn't respond to my question about your family. And you didn't really lay out any specific examples of backwardness. In the past I've seen you respond to topics about religious extremists. But beyond that I can't really speculate about what you find backwards.
You paint an attractive picture of yourself. I imagine that you are skipping over some less flattering aspects of your story.
One glaring point in your story that you haven't mentioned is your repeated return to the place that you say you dislike so much. Your frequent visits to TulsaNow says there is still something you want from Tulsa. And the fact that it is in someway fulfilling for you to take on various personalities to repeatedly criticize Tulsa is quite neurotic.
Now to really reach any consensus or to even begin to understand each other we need to understand what we value.
I would agree with you that on many levels Tulsa is mediocre. You site some great retail in Texas and I would say to you that the shopping in Dallas is nearly unrivaled in the United States. And the retail in Tulsa is pretty sad. So what.
I don't think many worldly Tulsans are going to tell you that Tulsa is a really serious contender for the biggest, baddest, mostest in any category. Tulsa was a golden girl. She was great early in her life. And she hasn't been the center of anything since the 1920s. But she was great once and bits and pieces of that remain.
Don't get me wrong. I love fancy stores, and world-class museums and all the things that giant urban areas have to offer and none of those things are here. And I love here. I love here because it is where I am from and it is my measure, my standard. I am genuinely excited by the sight of Tracy Park just because I played there as a boy. I am thrilled by the simplest things here.
Tulsa is small and comfortable and the pace is human and she still has great physical charm.
Did you ever play at Bells when you were a kid? Sure it's rinky dink to fuss over the future of an amusement park. That's part of the attraction here. Life is simple enough that we can take time to fuss over Bells.
Now I can understand what happened to you. I hear you Davaz. Maybe someday I'll hear the rest of the story. I'm sorry Tulsa didn't work out for you.
What I don't understand is why you didn't anticipate what you would find in Tulsa. And I don't understand why you can't let go.
You want an indicator ... I will give you one.
One of the smartest companies in the financial business is Fidelity Investments out of Boston. They are the world's largest fund company and have keen eye as to where they locate their investor centers. They locate them where the money is!
Dallas and Houston are typical of big cities -- they each have four investor centers. But it is not all big cities. The following cities all have at least one.
Memphis
Minneapolis
Raleigh - Durham
Charlotte
Portland
Denver
Even little Palo Alto and Scottsdale have one.
Guess what about Tulsa and Oklahoma City? You guessed it -- not even one in the state.
Point made.
Dude, I think.. like, if you don't have like.. a Dunkin Donuts then you're not a forward thinking town.
Yeah.
I have never seen anyone contributing posts to TulsaNow claim that Tulsa was a financial center of any kind. Houston has the wealthiest zip code in the United States.
I do recall one thoughtful critic saying that Tulsa needed money center banks to be a major player in the oil business.
It gets back to what you value Davaz. Money isn't everything.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I have never seen anyone contributing posts to TulsaNow claim that Tulsa was a financial center of any kind. Houston has the wealthiest zip code in the United States.
I do recall one thoughtful critic saying that Tulsa needed money center banks to be a major player in the oil business.
It gets back to what you value Davaz. Money isn't everything.
You missed the point ... none of those cities are financial centers with the possible exception of Charlotte. What they are is what Tulsa is not -- places where the citizens have resources.
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I have never seen anyone contributing posts to TulsaNow claim that Tulsa was a financial center of any kind. Houston has the wealthiest zip code in the United States.
I do recall one thoughtful critic saying that Tulsa needed money center banks to be a major player in the oil business.
It gets back to what you value Davaz. Money isn't everything.
You missed the point ... none of those cities are financial centers with the possible exception of Charlotte. What they are is what Tulsa is not -- places where the citizens have resources.
wow, i wonder if it is population driven... it is... call them and ask... they have a lot of my money and have for a long time... the investors centers have had limited penetration across the midwest... "the investor centers" are only one of there three retail operations... you are full of ****...
and this is what it all comes down to- money?? wow, i learned in my youth that those of any substantial financial standing rarely ever talk about it... you seem to be consumed by it... for you sake, i hope you win the lottery...
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
Even little Palo Alto and Scottsdale have one.
Guess what about Tulsa and Oklahoma City? You guessed it -- not even one in the state.
Point made.
Ummm.... dude. "Little" Palo Alto is in the Bay Area and is the home of Stanford Univ. "Little" Scottsdale is a suburb of Phoenix.....
Point made?
Guess so... if you value where Fidelity puts its offices? I mean, that's nice if you work for them. Otherwise, it's just lame.
Well Tulsa has Oklahoma's wealthiest zip code. And there are certainly some rich folks supporting those estates over by Philbrook. But you are right. Many Tulsans have very little resources. I do think it is a major failing of Tulsa's that her job creation strategies have not produced much. And it is dumbfounding and sad that the anti-union forces have prevailed in a state where workers are so clearly in need of some protections. Yes the number of minority and White folks living in poverty in Tulsa is quite discouraging.
My sense is that Tulsa is still led by the same old rich families and that they are second tier players in the industries they inhabit and that they as a group have failed Tulsa. The Republicans have failed Tulsa and the Oil Industry has failed Tulsa.
But that's not the half of Tulsa. Tulsa is big and complex and feisty and muscular and always in motion. She's a town full of charming sweet talkers and men in big fat trucks. I've never seen another town exactly like her.
Hometown, you impress me as an intelligent, courteous, and thoughtful person and your discourse with Davaz certainly indicates that you would like some earnest discussion on the issue.
I do think that what you are either forgetting (or more than likely just trying to ignore) is that Davaz is just an arrogant, close-minded person that is typical of many Texans.
Take it from me, I have lived in Texas and although many Texans are fantastic people (the majority are), the ignorant and arrogant attitude regarding anything outside of Texas, and ESPECIALLY Oklahoma is astounding.
Many years ago as a five-year employee of a pharmaceutical company in the DFW metroplex, I announced that I was finally returning to Tulsa, Oklahoma. At a going away luncheon, two of the older, big-haired ladies typical of that area could bite their tongues no longer as they said the following:
"You're going to TULSA!!?? Why on earth would ANYBODY go up there?"
The other chimed in, "It's nothing but dirt farms and flat!"
Needless to say, I set them all straight.
It's obvious that these two dullards had NEVER been to Tulsa or even looked it up in an encyclopedia (Internet was in its infancy). But, they had no problem whatsoever painting Tulsa in such a bad light in front of my coworkers and friends. Aside from their ignorance, their disrespect to a departing coworker was astounding. But that didn't matter, I was leaving TEXAS for OKLAHOMA, and I had to have a screw loose.
And to boot, these comments were from two people that have lived their entire lives in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex, which is one of the flattest, most unremarkable areas in terms of geography and topography in the US. Sure, they have a Nordstroms on every corner but good lord, how shallow is your life if that is one of its focal points?
One more thing, although Davaz may "say" that he is from Tulsa, I seriously doubt that is the case. His attitude is that of many Texans, especially those from the areas of Houston, DFW, and Austin. BTW, I have found in my travels that San Antonio people aren't so arrogant.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Well Tulsa has Oklahoma's wealthiest zip code. And there are certainly some rich folks supporting those estates over by Philbrook. But you are right. Many Tulsans have very little resources. I do think it is a major failing of Tulsa's that her job creation strategies have not produced much. And it is dumbfounding and sad that the anti-union forces have prevailed in a state where workers are so clearly in need of some protections. Yes the number of minority and White folks living in poverty in Tulsa is quite discouraging.
My sense is that Tulsa is still led by the same old rich families and that they are second tier players in the industries they inhabit and that they as a group have failed Tulsa. The Republicans have failed Tulsa and the Oil Industry has failed Tulsa.
But that's not the half of Tulsa. Tulsa is big and complex and feisty and muscular and always in motion. She's a town full of charming sweet talkers and men in big fat trucks. I've never seen another town exactly like her.
Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.
I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.
From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:
1. Wealthy
2. Upper Middle Class Professional
3. Middle Class
4. Lower Middle Class
5. Poor
Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:
1. Wealthy
2. Lower Middle Class
3. Poor
We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.
To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.
Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it.
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Well Tulsa has Oklahoma's wealthiest zip code. And there are certainly some rich folks supporting those estates over by Philbrook. But you are right. Many Tulsans have very little resources. I do think it is a major failing of Tulsa's that her job creation strategies have not produced much. And it is dumbfounding and sad that the anti-union forces have prevailed in a state where workers are so clearly in need of some protections. Yes the number of minority and White folks living in poverty in Tulsa is quite discouraging.
My sense is that Tulsa is still led by the same old rich families and that they are second tier players in the industries they inhabit and that they as a group have failed Tulsa. The Republicans have failed Tulsa and the Oil Industry has failed Tulsa.
But that's not the half of Tulsa. Tulsa is big and complex and feisty and muscular and always in motion. She's a town full of charming sweet talkers and men in big fat trucks. I've never seen another town exactly like her.
Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.
I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.
From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:
1. Wealthy
2. Upper Middle Class Professional
3. Middle Class
4. Lower Middle Class
5. Poor
Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:
1. Wealthy
2. Lower Middle Class
3. Poor
We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.
To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.
Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it.
By percentage, Texas is the 5th poorest state in the country (16.4% of the population living in poverty compared to 12.6% in OK)
Also the per capita personal income level is only $3000 difference between TX and OK, both being below the national average:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0854972.html
Texas also ranked in the top 10 states with highest percentage of children living in poverty (Oklahoma did not):
http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/povfact11.shtml
Lastly,
none of the nations top 100 wealthiest zip codes are in TX:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1377315/posts
But the top 3 poorest zip codes are:
http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/povfact5.shtml
Get over yourself.
Texas also ranked number ONE in states with the highest percentage of low income, uninsured children.
http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/povfact8.shtml
Oklahoma was number 8 on the list, which is certainly nothing to be proud of but when you get that Tex-donkey attitude coming on this forum to bash Oklahoma, it's a bit like the pot AND kettle both calling the dinner-ware black, eh?
Take off the Tex-donkey colored glasses Davaz.
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
QuoteOriginally posted by tulitlikeitis
QuoteOriginally posted by Hometown
Quote
By percentage, Texas is the 5th poorest state in the country (16.4% of the population living in poverty compared to 12.6% in OK)
Also the per capita personal income level is only $3000 difference between TX and OK, both being below the national average:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0854972.html
Texas also ranked in the top 10 states with highest percentage of children living in poverty (Oklahoma did not):
http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/povfact11.shtml
Lastly, none of the nations top 100 wealthiest zip codes are in TX:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1377315/posts
But the top 3 poorest zip codes are:
http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/povfact5.shtml
Get over yourself.
What crap!
Most of these stats are associated with the counties along the Mexican border ... similar situation in New Mexico and AZ. None of this has much to do with the big cities like Houston, Dallas, Austin and San Antonio.
Some very poor counties are in upper NY State. By your analogy, we should say NYC is not worth a s**t because of those counties.
There are about 35-40 Fortune 500 headquarters in Dallas and about an equal number in Houston. How many are there in all of Oklahoma? ... Five or six? Are you saying all of these execs are stupid?
Give me a break ... you are defending that which cannot be defended.
So Tex-donkey being having the highest percentage of low income, uninsured children bears no relevance to this topic? You state that we in Tulsa are backward because of your subjective observances on such things as the cars we drive and the clothes we wear, but because most of TEX-donkey has a stupid finance company on every corner that is somehow supposed to make Tex-donkey better? Surely you jest!
YOU are the one that has nothing to back up your stupid claims and it is YOU who are defending the undefendable.
You actually belong in the bug infested swamp down there in TEX-donkey. You're probably a t-sip to boot!
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Well Tulsa has Oklahoma's wealthiest zip code. And there are certainly some rich folks supporting those estates over by Philbrook. But you are right. Many Tulsans have very little resources. I do think it is a major failing of Tulsa's that her job creation strategies have not produced much. And it is dumbfounding and sad that the anti-union forces have prevailed in a state where workers are so clearly in need of some protections. Yes the number of minority and White folks living in poverty in Tulsa is quite discouraging.
My sense is that Tulsa is still led by the same old rich families and that they are second tier players in the industries they inhabit and that they as a group have failed Tulsa. The Republicans have failed Tulsa and the Oil Industry has failed Tulsa.
But that's not the half of Tulsa. Tulsa is big and complex and feisty and muscular and always in motion. She's a town full of charming sweet talkers and men in big fat trucks. I've never seen another town exactly like her.
Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.
I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.
From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:
1. Wealthy
2. Upper Middle Class Professional
3. Middle Class
4. Lower Middle Class
5. Poor
Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:
1. Wealthy
2. Lower Middle Class
3. Poor
We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.
To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.
Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it.
By percentage, Texas is the 5th poorest state in the country (16.4% of the population living in poverty compared to 12.6% in OK)
Also the per capita personal income level is only $3000 difference between TX and OK, both being below the national average:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0854972.html
Texas also ranked in the top 10 states with highest percentage of children living in poverty (Oklahoma did not):
http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/povfact11.shtml
Lastly, none of the nations top 100 wealthiest zip codes are in TX:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1377315/posts
But the top 3 poorest zip codes are:
http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/povfact5.shtml
Get over yourself.
You are surely aware that NONE of those links or facts are in any way related to, or an argument opposing that to which you responded. Sorry, but Tulitlikeitis actually did post a thoughtful, non-flaming thought about Tulsa's problems and your response just attacks Texas with a bunch of unrelated, cherry-picked statistics, rather than discussing Tul's theory.
Any thoughts or arguments about Tul's theory?
Gosh Davaz if you get any more reasonable we'll all end up holding hands and having warm and fuzzy feelings.
Azbadpuppy, I'm the one that came up with Houston has wealthiest zip code. I heard that somewhere recently and I could easily be wrong. Also Snopes is quite right that Texas and Oklahoma are cut from the same fabric. But guys we would lose any argument that Oklahoma has as much dough as Texas.
Back at the ranch:
You know Davaz I've heard a lot of folks on this forum and elsewhere raise your complaint about the old rich families putting a stranglehold on Tulsa.
I don't think your position is so very different from that of many of ours. The difference is the response to the situation. Some people see Tulsa's dilemma and want to help make a difference.
And I think the argument is with your value system. You place too much emphasis on material wealth.
Now I would also disagree with you on some details. If you are a person with resources you have a distinct advantage in Tulsa. Here, it is the people who hope to gain resources that have a tough row to hoe. I'm job hunting and have to tell you, I know why the young people leave Tulsa.
You could say that Tulsa is a great place to stretch a dollar. But it's also a tough place to make a dollar.
Now really there is no shortage of trendy this and that here. I sat in a Starbucks at Utica Square the other day and the people looked like San Francisco's Financial District workers. You can carve out a gourmet kind of life here if you have the resources.
But get very far away from parts of midtown or far south Tulsa and the scene quickly deteriorates. Of course all the economic negatives here have been greatly exacerbated by the oil companies leaving town.
Anyway, I've gone on much too long and there are other people here who have much more insight than I do on these problems. Honestly, so far Davaz you haven't come up with anything that is very different from many other posts I've read here. Can't you come up with a more substantive criticism of Tulsa?
He can't. It all has to do with wealth. Oil capital, you're argument is fruitless as well. You dispute that the content of those websites has nothing to do with this argument, but in fact they have everything to do with this argument since all of HIS arguments seem to revolve around WEALTH. Davaz says Tulsa is backward and to point out this folly he talks about there being more fortune 500 companies and such in Houston; no real substantive issues on why he thinks Tulsa is so backward. However, there is one huge fact that you cannot dispute; Texans are some of the most arrogant people in the US, and with Oklahoma being so close it is one of their chief targets when it comes to smack talk. I don't for ONE minute believe that Davaz was born or raised in Tulsa. He's typical of many Texans that think they are the end all do all and so they use all of the standard trash talk when it comes to Oklahoma. Sure, Tulsa has its problems as does any city, but I certainly enjoy living here more than I could ever, EVER enjoy myself living in that bug infested swamp near the sea of sludge they call the Gulf of Mexico.
Want some comments from some of the present (and gladly former) residents of Houston?
"I've been here all my life, every since I was 15 I wanted to leave. I'm 25 now. The weather is ridiculous. Hot in the winter, even hotter in the summer. Humidity, my god, I can't keep a hairstyle with it. The Texas draw speaking people and the country accents, are getting on my nerves. I need a change of enviroment. I always wanted to live in New York. Next Year I'm getting the hell up out of here."
"This miserable mosquito infested city is grating on my nerves. I want to get out so badly and move to California. Hopefully sooner rather than later... Only 1,266 days until Houston is only reveiw mirror material."
"I got out of Houston 15 years ago. AND GLAD I DID Grew up there. Now live in small town of 50,000, no traffic, 4 seasons, low humidity – don't sweat like a pig walking from house to car. Native Texan – finally getting over that, too."
Gotta love that last one!
Want to read more! Just visit http://www.43things.com/things/view/85113
Here are some more stats for you. This is off the City Data website at http://www.city-data.com/.
For population 25 years and over:
High school education or higher: Houston 70.4%/Tulsa 84.4%
Bachelor's degree or higher: Houston 27.0%/Tulsa 28.3%
Graduate or professional degree: Houston 9.7%/Tulsa 9.2%
Unemployed: Houston 7.6%/Tulsa 5.4%
Mean travel time to work: Houston 27.4 minutes/Tulsa 18.6%
It appears to me that Tulsa has a better standard of living, with a higher percentage of educated people than Houston, better commute times to work, and less unemployment. Once again, take off the Tex-donkey colored glasses, or better yet wipe the sweat off and see the light.
Oh, but I see the retort now, "We got us a FORTEUWNE 500 company on every corner down here in Houston! Beat that!"
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
He can't. It all has to do with wealth. Oil capital, you're argument is fruitless as well. You dispute that the content of those websites has nothing to do with this argument, but in fact they have everything to do with this argument since all of HIS arguments seem to revolve around WEALTH. Davaz says Tulsa is backward and to point out this folly he talks about there being more fortune 500 companies and such in Houston; no real substantive issues on why he thinks Tulsa is so backward. However, there is one huge fact that you cannot dispute; Texans are some of the most arrogant people in the US, and with Oklahoma being so close it is one of their chief targets when it comes to smack talk. I don't for ONE minute believe that Davaz was born or raised in Tulsa. He's typical of many Texans that think they are the end all do all and so they use all of the standard trash talk when it comes to Oklahoma. Sure, Tulsa has its problems as does any city, but I certainly enjoy living here more than I could ever, EVER enjoy myself living in that bug infested swamp near the sea of sludge they call the Gulf of Mexico.
Want some comments from some of the present (and gladly former) residents of Houston?
"I've been here all my life, every since I was 15 I wanted to leave. I'm 25 now. The weather is ridiculous. Hot in the winter, even hotter in the summer. Humidity, my god, I can't keep a hairstyle with it. The Texas draw speaking people and the country accents, are getting on my nerves. I need a change of enviroment. I always wanted to live in New York. Next Year I'm getting the hell up out of here."
"This miserable mosquito infested city is grating on my nerves. I want to get out so badly and move to California. Hopefully sooner rather than later... Only 1,266 days until Houston is only reveiw mirror material."
"I got out of Houston 15 years ago. AND GLAD I DID Grew up there. Now live in small town of 50,000, no traffic, 4 seasons, low humidity – don't sweat like a pig walking from house to car. Native Texan – finally getting over that, too."
Gotta love that last one!
Want to read more! Just visit http://www.43things.com/things/view/85113
sorry, pal. My "argument" was only "fruitless" to those too biased to see. #1: Tul's statement was regarding Tulsa, not Houston or anywhere in Texas. #2: the stats provided were entirely about the states, not about the metro areas. Quite a different thing.
And what are you in now, the 7th grade, with your childish and quite revealing "Tex-donkey" comments? Grow up and TRY to have a civilized conversation. Maybe you could learn something and the rest of us could too. Throwing out bad statistics about other cities and states is decidedly NOT the answer to Tulsa's woes. But you seem to think Tulsa is already perfect, so you can just spend your time and energy searching for stats to bash other cities and states.
That last one is truly precious. You found 27 people who posted stuff to a site about why they want to leave (or already left) Houston. 27 out of 5.25 million. Yeah, that really tells us something, doesn't it? Sheesh.
And regarding your tag line. You know you could save yourself a lot of time and money by just taking your wife down to the Arkansas River. ;-)
Wrong OilCaps. Look at the stats again. Apparently you refuse to read, but judging from those with a high school degree or higher in Houston I see that there is a 25% chance of that not being possible. I do not deny that Tulsa has its problems, but you see - most of Davaz' posts are about how Tulsa is so backward and Houston is sooo much more prefereable. I am merely disputing that using some of the typical tex-donkey smack talk attitude. It goes both ways.
Oops, that's actually a 30% chance of not having a high-school education in Houston - my bad.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
Wrong OilCaps. Look at the stats again. Apparently you refuse to read, but judging from those with a high school degree or higher in Houston I see that there is a 25% chance of that not being possible. I do not deny that Tulsa has its problems, but you see - most of Davaz' posts are about how Tulsa is so backward and Houston is sooo much more prefereable. I am merely disputing that using some of the typical tex-donkey smack talk attitude. It goes both ways.
Oops, that's actually a 30% chance of not having a high-school education in Houston - my bad.
And there you go again. I'll just let the ridiculous personal attacks slide.
Perhaps I overstated it a bit when I said that all the linked stats were about states; but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas. The responses have decidedly not even attempted to address any of the points in Tulitlikeitis' post.
Trust me, I can read quite well. And BTW, I live in Tulsa, not Houston.
As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.
Tulsa has
*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills
And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.
Tulsa has
*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills
And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.
Who asked for a comparison to Houston?
Oops
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
Wrong OilCaps. Look at the stats again. Apparently you refuse to read, but judging from those with a high school degree or higher in Houston I see that there is a 25% chance of that not being possible. I do not deny that Tulsa has its problems, but you see - most of Davaz' posts are about how Tulsa is so backward and Houston is sooo much more prefereable. I am merely disputing that using some of the typical tex-donkey smack talk attitude. It goes both ways.
Oops, that's actually a 30% chance of not having a high-school education in Houston - my bad.
And there you go again. I'll just let the ridiculous personal attacks slide.
Perhaps I overstated it a bit when I said that all the linked stats were about states; but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas.
Trust me, I can read quite well. And BTW, I live in Tulsa, not Houston.
Okay, I apologize to you if I've offended you with what you considered personal attacks; it's not my nature and it's not condusive to our argument. I get rather heated when it comes to stuff like this from Texans because I lived there for five years and heard this kind of crap on a daily basis.
Would you please go back and re-read your most recent post though? You say that you overstated it a bit when you said that all of the linked stats were about states and not metro areas and then you go on and immediately contradict yourself in the sentence that follows.
"but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas."
I've provided plenty of city stats to back up my claims, that Tulsa is not some shambles of a city and is indeed a better place to live (in my opinion), not to mention some more direct life experience type items (see list in other post), but the most I see coming from the other side of the argument is
*Tulsa is backward
*You drive funny cars
*You don't have a equitable dispersion of wealth (something that stats do NOT back up)
*We have more fortune 500 companies than you...
Am I getting my point across any clearer? Sure, Tulsa has ALOT of problems that I would dearly love to see addressed, but I'm not on a Houston forum bashing the city left and right calling them backward.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.
Tulsa has
*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills
And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.
Who asked for a comparison to Houston?
I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
Wrong OilCaps. Look at the stats again. Apparently you refuse to read, but judging from those with a high school degree or higher in Houston I see that there is a 25% chance of that not being possible. I do not deny that Tulsa has its problems, but you see - most of Davaz' posts are about how Tulsa is so backward and Houston is sooo much more prefereable. I am merely disputing that using some of the typical tex-donkey smack talk attitude. It goes both ways.
Oops, that's actually a 30% chance of not having a high-school education in Houston - my bad.
And there you go again. I'll just let the ridiculous personal attacks slide.
Perhaps I overstated it a bit when I said that all the linked stats were about states; but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas.
Trust me, I can read quite well. And BTW, I live in Tulsa, not Houston.
Okay, I apologize to you if I've offended you with what you considered personal attacks; it's not my nature and it's not condusive to our argument. I get rather heated when it comes to stuff like this from Texans because I lived there for five years and heard this kind of crap on a daily basis.
Would you please go back and re-read your most recent post though? You say that you overstated it a bit when you said that all of the linked stats were about states and not metro areas and then you go on and immediately contradict yourself in the sentence that follows.
"but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas."
I've provided plenty of city stats to back up my claims, that Tulsa is not some shambles of a city and is indeed a better place to live (in my opinion), not to mention some more direct life experience type items (see list in other post), but the most I see coming from the other side of the argument is
*Tulsa is backward
*You drive funny cars
*You don't have a equitable dispersion of wealth (something that stats do NOT back up)
*We have more fortune 500 companies than you...
Am I getting my point across any clearer? Sure, Tulsa has ALOT of problems that I would dearly love to see addressed, but I'm not on a Houston forum bashing the city left and right calling them backward.
No, I did not contradict myself. The posting talked only about the STATE statistics. It provided links to backup those STATE statistics and made no reference whatsoever to any metro statistics that may have incidentally been in those linked websites.
And as I said above, there was NO attempt whatsoever to address the point being made by Tulitlikeitis, which did not bash Tulsa right and left (although he may have in the past, but let's focus on the present, can we, where Tulitlikeitis at least appeared to be making an effort to have a civil conversation with Hometown.
But you and AZbadpuppy would have none of that. You two immediately had to jump in and start trashing Houson and Texas.
You need to get over whatever bad experiences you had in D-FW. Good grief; Just move on with your life already. I guess things are different in D-FW than in Houston. (Yes, I once lived in Houston) I don't remember anyone ever mentioning Oklahoma, let alone trashing it. I also visit Houston pretty regularly (and yes, I love Houston's weather) and nobody has ever trashed Tulsa or Oklahoma when I tell them where I'm visiting from. EVER.
Sorry, I can't keep my mouth shut.
Snopes you are FUNNY!
Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
Oil Capital. Like the sound of that Name. Oil Capital. I am really curious how you would respond to Davaz. Would you be willing to tell us how you would respond?
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.
Tulsa has
*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills
And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.
Who asked for a comparison to Houston?
I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.
No, I have not read this entire thread. Because most of it is very tedious and childish. As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response. But that was not to be. I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread. I'm talking about this page, today.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
Wrong OilCaps. Look at the stats again. Apparently you refuse to read, but judging from those with a high school degree or higher in Houston I see that there is a 25% chance of that not being possible. I do not deny that Tulsa has its problems, but you see - most of Davaz' posts are about how Tulsa is so backward and Houston is sooo much more prefereable. I am merely disputing that using some of the typical tex-donkey smack talk attitude. It goes both ways.
Oops, that's actually a 30% chance of not having a high-school education in Houston - my bad.
And there you go again. I'll just let the ridiculous personal attacks slide.
Perhaps I overstated it a bit when I said that all the linked stats were about states; but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas.
Trust me, I can read quite well. And BTW, I live in Tulsa, not Houston.
Okay, I apologize to you if I've offended you with what you considered personal attacks; it's not my nature and it's not condusive to our argument. I get rather heated when it comes to stuff like this from Texans because I lived there for five years and heard this kind of crap on a daily basis.
Would you please go back and re-read your most recent post though? You say that you overstated it a bit when you said that all of the linked stats were about states and not metro areas and then you go on and immediately contradict yourself in the sentence that follows.
"but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas."
I've provided plenty of city stats to back up my claims, that Tulsa is not some shambles of a city and is indeed a better place to live (in my opinion), not to mention some more direct life experience type items (see list in other post), but the most I see coming from the other side of the argument is
*Tulsa is backward
*You drive funny cars
*You don't have a equitable dispersion of wealth (something that stats do NOT back up)
*We have more fortune 500 companies than you...
Am I getting my point across any clearer? Sure, Tulsa has ALOT of problems that I would dearly love to see addressed, but I'm not on a Houston forum bashing the city left and right calling them backward.
No, I did not contradict myself. The posting talked only about the STATE statistics. It provided links to backup those STATE statistics and made no reference whatsoever to any metro statistics that may have incidentally been in those linked websites.
And as I said above, there was NO attempt whatsoever to address the point being made by Tulitlikeitis, which did not bash Tulsa right and left (although he may have in the past, but let's focus on the present, can we, where Tulitlikeitis at least appeared to be making an effort to have a civil conversation with Hometown.
But you and AZbadpuppy would have none of that. You two immediately had to jump in and start trashing Houson and Texas.
You need to get over whatever bad experiences you had in D-FW. Good grief; Just move on with your life already. I guess things are different in D-FW than in Houston. (Yes, I once lived in Houston) I don't remember anyone ever mentioning Oklahoma, let alone trashing it. I also visit Houston pretty regularly (and yes, I love Houston's weather) and nobody has ever trashed Tulsa or Oklahoma when I tell them where I'm visiting from. EVER.
I provided plenty of CITY stats Oil Capital. And if you will carefully reread your post you did indeed contradict yourself in the same paragraph. Shall we get into another argument on that topic alone? It seems you use the same strategy as Davaz and jump around from issue to issue not offering anything substantive, and when someone nails your behind on something you won't even own up to that. Since you're such a supporter of Davaz and the great city of Houston, I would like to know how you would respond to Davaz. And again, if you will read the entire thread and many of the other threads from Davaz, he doesn't offer constructive criticism, he merely puts down the city without offering any real data to back up his claims. In fact, I'm beginning to believe that you are indeed just another incarnation of Davaz himself. Email accounts are free.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.
Tulsa has
*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills
And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.
Who asked for a comparison to Houston?
I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.
No, I have not read this entire thread. Because most of it is very tedious and childish. As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response. But that was not to be. I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread. I'm talking about this page, today.
Although his tone was a little more civilized earlier on in this thread, mainly thanks to Hometown's responses, his latest post was to say (and I quote) THIS IS A BUNCH OF CRAP! And, this thread and Davaz has a long history on this board. History doesn't matter to you? Well, it matters to me.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Sorry, I can't keep my mouth shut.
Snopes you are FUNNY!
Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
Oil Capital. Like the sound of that Name. Oil Capital. I am really curious how you would respond to Davaz. Would you be willing to tell us how you would respond?
Those bugs are all over the restaurant windows in the summer down there. Go to any restaurant that has windows and especially in the evenings you will see tons of 'em hanging on, peeking inside, scraping and clawing to get in, looking so much like the exoskeletal beggars that they are.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
Wrong OilCaps. Look at the stats again. Apparently you refuse to read, but judging from those with a high school degree or higher in Houston I see that there is a 25% chance of that not being possible. I do not deny that Tulsa has its problems, but you see - most of Davaz' posts are about how Tulsa is so backward and Houston is sooo much more prefereable. I am merely disputing that using some of the typical tex-donkey smack talk attitude. It goes both ways.
Oops, that's actually a 30% chance of not having a high-school education in Houston - my bad.
And there you go again. I'll just let the ridiculous personal attacks slide.
Perhaps I overstated it a bit when I said that all the linked stats were about states; but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas.
Trust me, I can read quite well. And BTW, I live in Tulsa, not Houston.
Okay, I apologize to you if I've offended you with what you considered personal attacks; it's not my nature and it's not condusive to our argument. I get rather heated when it comes to stuff like this from Texans because I lived there for five years and heard this kind of crap on a daily basis.
Would you please go back and re-read your most recent post though? You say that you overstated it a bit when you said that all of the linked stats were about states and not metro areas and then you go on and immediately contradict yourself in the sentence that follows.
"but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas."
I've provided plenty of city stats to back up my claims, that Tulsa is not some shambles of a city and is indeed a better place to live (in my opinion), not to mention some more direct life experience type items (see list in other post), but the most I see coming from the other side of the argument is
*Tulsa is backward
*You drive funny cars
*You don't have a equitable dispersion of wealth (something that stats do NOT back up)
*We have more fortune 500 companies than you...
Am I getting my point across any clearer? Sure, Tulsa has ALOT of problems that I would dearly love to see addressed, but I'm not on a Houston forum bashing the city left and right calling them backward.
No, I did not contradict myself. The posting talked only about the STATE statistics. It provided links to backup those STATE statistics and made no reference whatsoever to any metro statistics that may have incidentally been in those linked websites.
And as I said above, there was NO attempt whatsoever to address the point being made by Tulitlikeitis, which did not bash Tulsa right and left (although he may have in the past, but let's focus on the present, can we, where Tulitlikeitis at least appeared to be making an effort to have a civil conversation with Hometown.
But you and AZbadpuppy would have none of that. You two immediately had to jump in and start trashing Houson and Texas.
You need to get over whatever bad experiences you had in D-FW. Good grief; Just move on with your life already. I guess things are different in D-FW than in Houston. (Yes, I once lived in Houston) I don't remember anyone ever mentioning Oklahoma, let alone trashing it. I also visit Houston pretty regularly (and yes, I love Houston's weather) and nobody has ever trashed Tulsa or Oklahoma when I tell them where I'm visiting from. EVER.
I provided plenty of CITY stats Oil Capital. And if you will carefully reread your post you did indeed contradict yourself in the same paragraph. Shall we get into another argument on that topic alone? It seems you use the same strategy as Davaz and jump around from issue to issue not offering anything substantive, and when someone nails your behind on something you won't even own up to that. Since you're such a supporter of Davaz and the great city of Houston, I would like to know how you would respond to Davaz. And again, if you will read the entire thread and many of the other threads from Davaz, he doesn't offer constructive criticism, he merely puts down the city without offering any real data to back up his claims. In fact, I'm beginning to believe that you are indeed just another incarnation of Davaz himself. Email accounts are free.
Again with the personal attacks. You really just can't help yourself can you? I have no need or reason to read the entire thread. Why can't we talk about the post that started all of this. And where is my contradiction? If you show it to me I'll own up to it. I was talking about AZbadpuppy's post, not yours. He/she talked entirely about STATE statistics, not metro statistics. And besides which, tul's post under discussion had nothing whatsoever to do with metro comparisons. It was entirely about Tulsa.
As I tried to explain earlier (in the language in which you find a contradiction), I originally thought that the sites to which AZBadpuppy linked were entirely state statistics. That's where I overstated. What I should have said was that the stats given by AZBadpuppy were entired state statistics. I guess you are not understandin the distinction between "linked" stats and "posted" stats.
Where have I "jumped around from issue to issue"?
So, what are YOUR thoughts about tulitlikeitis' post that is under discussion? Nobody has seen those either. I'll post mine shortly
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Well Tulsa has Oklahoma's wealthiest zip code. And there are certainly some rich folks supporting those estates over by Philbrook. But you are right. Many Tulsans have very little resources. I do think it is a major failing of Tulsa's that her job creation strategies have not produced much. And it is dumbfounding and sad that the anti-union forces have prevailed in a state where workers are so clearly in need of some protections. Yes the number of minority and White folks living in poverty in Tulsa is quite discouraging.
My sense is that Tulsa is still led by the same old rich families and that they are second tier players in the industries they inhabit and that they as a group have failed Tulsa. The Republicans have failed Tulsa and the Oil Industry has failed Tulsa.
But that's not the half of Tulsa. Tulsa is big and complex and feisty and muscular and always in motion. She's a town full of charming sweet talkers and men in big fat trucks. I've never seen another town exactly like her.
Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.
I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.
From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:
1. Wealthy
2. Upper Middle Class Professional
3. Middle Class
4. Lower Middle Class
5. Poor
Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:
1. Wealthy
2. Lower Middle Class
3. Poor
We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.
To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.
Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it.
I think Tulitlikeitis has perhaps hit on a pretty good theory about Tulsa losing a lot of its "upper middle class professional" and "middle class" population. That is similar to the oft-discussed brain-drain, so it is not entirely an original thought. But I think the "brain-drain" that is usually discussed is with reference to young people, recently graduated from college. The theory I'm seeing from tulitlikeitis is that the "brain-drain" if you will has extended beyond just young people.
I would be interested to see some statistics on this, one way or the other. But looking at the situation merely anecdotally, it makes a lot of sense. When Sunoco and Vintage/Oxy and Parker Drilling, and Citgo etc. move well-paid professional and upper-middle-class and middle class jobs out of town and they are replaced by call center jobs...
And of course Tul is hardly the first one to coment that Tulsa's wealthy people don't generally want change. It's a little hard to argue with him on that one. And he is probably right that, especially in Tulsa, it is the upper-middle-professional and middle class that would most likely drive the needed change, and if you have a shortage of those people, well, it's not good.
I would not agree with Tul regarding poverty hitting you in the face every where you turn in Tulsa. That is a stretch.
Okay, your turn, Snopes
Oil Capital, on one hand you say that you're not concerned with history, only about what took place today, and then in another post you spoke of how you want to get to the root of the problem in regards to the origination of this thread. You keep saying there are no city specific stats to back up any claims but I've offered several. Would you care to discuss those on a rational level? As for personal attacks, you've made plenty by inferring that I have the intelligence of a 7th grader, and more. At least I owned up on my side and apologized, but of course I don't expect such an apology from you. Go ahead, stick up for Davaz and the great city of Houston; you and your alter ego will have alot to talk about bashing the city of Tulsa for being backward and going on and on about how many fortune 500 companies it takes to screw in a light bulb.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.
Tulsa has
*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills
And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.
Who asked for a comparison to Houston?
I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.
No, I have not read this entire thread. Because most of it is very tedious and childish. As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response. But that was not to be. I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread. I'm talking about this page, today.
Although his tone was a little more civilized earlier on in this thread, mainly thanks to Hometown's responses, his latest post was to say (and I quote) THIS IS A BUNCH OF CRAP! And, this thread and Davaz has a long history on this board. History doesn't matter to you? Well, it matters to me.
Speaking of going off on side issues...History in general matters to me. The history of this thread does NOT.
His "This is a bunch of crap" response was to AZbadpuppy's response, which was indeed a bunch of crap. That was a totally fair and acurate response. For the very reasons I have already gone into. It did not address or respond to Tul's post. It just threw a bunch of irrelevant statistics comparing OK and TX, which was NOT what Tul's post was about. Got it?
And your thoughts in response to Tul's post? (Mine in a post above.)
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
Oil Capital, on one hand you say that you're not concerned with history, only about what took place today, and then in another post you spoke of how you want to get to the root of the problem in regards to the origination of this thread. You keep saying there are no city specific stats to back up any claims but I've offered several. Would you care to discuss those on a rational level? As for personal attacks, you've made plenty by inferring that I have the intelligence of a 7th grader, and more. At least I owned up on my side and apologized, but of course I don't expect such an apology from you. Go ahead, stick up for Davaz and the great city of Houston; you and your alter ego will have alot to talk about bashing the city of Tulsa for being backward and going on and on about how many fortune 500 companies it takes to screw in a light bulb.
Again with the constant jumping from issue to issue...
What in the world are you talking about? Where have I talked about wanting to get to the root of the problem in regards to the origination of this thread???
I also never complained there are no city-specific stats. Only that (a) there were none in Azbadpuppy's post, (b) that comparisons to Houston were not on subject, and for that matter(c) I have still not seen any stats that address the issues raised in Tul's post (which is, after all what we (well, I) are trying to talk about. Do you have Tulsa stats that show any comparison of Tulsa upper-middle-class/professional stats say from 2000 compared to 2006? THOSE stats would be relevant to the discussion. Dated high school graduation rates, especially with no timeline comparison, are not relevant, ESPECIALLY those from the target of your obsession, Houston.)
and I've made plenty of personal attacks? You've named one, which was richly deserved (and I think you even agreed it was deserved at that point, since you apologized for the statements that led to it) which I asked (neither inferring nor implying) if you were a 7th grader. I am sorry I had to ask such a question. (But FWIW, you never did answer... ;-)
(I don't know if you've noticed this, but you are the only one talking about Houston. Do you have just a bit of an obsession?) ;-)
And now for your thoughts on Tul's post re: the loss of upper middle professional and middle class Tulsa??
wow, it is almost as if someone had desperately tried to get back to houston (but been unable to find gainful employment as say, an attorney) and still longs to return...
just a passing observation...
You speak with great precision Oil Capital. I agree with your assessment of Tul's criticism.
I've thought that Tulsa and Fort Worth have many similarities because of their modest middle classes. Fort Worth has always sort of stood in the shadow of Dallas and for a while it felt neglected and overlooked like Tulsa. What Fort Worth has that Tulsa doesn't was a new group of super rich. The new rich were billionaires. The old money folks were millionaires. Now I could be proved wrong on this. Tulsa may have its share of billionaires.
I think a long time ago Tulsa got sold on a notion of "economic diversification" that has since become an unquestioned sacred cow and a cornerstone of policy. But I think Tulsa should have fought tooth and nail hang onto a more prominent niche in the oil business. I just saw Citgo walk away without as much as a whimper out of Tulsa.
The good news is that we still have a critical mass of oil services business that we should fight to keep and we have a number of small oil companies and small oil companies are expected to do well as we reach peak oil.
As we wrestler with the Channels, Bartlesville is eating our lunch with their beefed up ConocoPhillips. We haven't even given the rest of the state a good fight and we've let OU site its energy research in Norman. Oil is about top drawer jobs and on the other hand diversification – thirty years later – has been a miserable failure. I say we cut our losses and do some hard math and get back to basics – invest in energy business jobs.
People reading this thread would do well to read a recent NYTimes article titled "Cities Compete in Hipness Battle to Attract Young," Dewan and Goodman, 11-25-06. An excerpt from that article is quoted below:
" ... The problem for cities, says Richard Florida, a public policy professor at George Mason University who has written about what he calls ''the creative class,'' is that those cities that already have a significant share of the young and restless are in the best position to attract more.
''There are a dozen places, at best, that are becoming magnets for these people,'' Mr. Florida said.
That disparity was evident in a report released this week by the Metropolitan Atlanta Chamber of Commerce, which showed Atlanta leading the pack among big cities, while other metro areas, like Philadelphia, hemorrhaged young people from 1990 to 2000. (In this competition, surveys that make a city look good are a favorite opening salvo.)
In that decade, the Atlanta study said, the number of 25- to-34-year-olds with four-year college degrees in the city increased by 46 percent, placing Atlanta in the top five metropolitan areas in terms of growth rate, and a close second to San Francisco in terms of overall numbers. Charlotte, N.C., also outperformed Atlanta, with a growth rate of 57 percent, the second highest in the country after Las Vegas. ..."
Do any of you think Tulsa can compete in this league? Get a grip.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.
Tulsa has
*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills
And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.
Who asked for a comparison to Houston?
I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.
No, I have not read this entire thread. Because most of it is very tedious and childish. As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response. But that was not to be. I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread. I'm talking about this page, today.
Although his tone was a little more civilized earlier on in this thread, mainly thanks to Hometown's responses, his latest post was to say (and I quote) THIS IS A BUNCH OF CRAP! And, this thread and Davaz has a long history on this board. History doesn't matter to you? Well, it matters to me.
Speaking of going off on side issues...History in general matters to me. The history of this thread does NOT.
His "This is a bunch of crap" response was to AZbadpuppy's response, which was indeed a bunch of crap. That was a totally fair and acurate response. For the very reasons I have already gone into. It did not address or respond to Tul's post. It just threw a bunch of irrelevant statistics comparing OK and TX, which was NOT what Tul's post was about. Got it?
And your thoughts in response to Tul's post? (Mine in a post above.)
Actually, you are wrong again. Tul said, and I quote: "The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak."
If you are going to come and bash poverty in Oklahoma and you are from Texas, then you really prove what an idiot you truly are.
When presented with CITY statistics for Houston and Tulsa, you didn't much like that either, did you? Unless I missed something, Davaz does live in Houston, no? the place that is supposedly so much better than the poor backward hole that is Tulsa?
Sorry if you don't like the facts, but the truth hurts sometimes.
That's it for me.
I tried to restart a "crappy post" because the dude said he knew where all the TN members ate, slept, peed, and even which branch each of us applied for our food stamps at.
I've seen nothing of the sort. Just some worming around. (which is polite for saying, "liar".)
But what I have REALLY seen here is yet again this dude pretending to be someone new, again, signs up on a Tulsa forum to blast Tulsa.
He's busted as a troll again but keeps right on going?
Best defense is he is trying to save us from ourselves because we still live here.
Or he's just not right in the head.
I have enough of my own and very real problems to deal with, unlike Hometown (I guess) and am more than willing to concider this dude a pitifull, waste and leave him to himself - for whatever kakamanie reasons he cares to conjure up.
To storm off angry and then spend every day after, reliving what made one angry - from a far away place - is *ucking nutty and the same as never leaving in the first place.
Better him then I on that note, jdb
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
People reading this thread would do well to read a recent NYTimes article titled "Cities Compete in Hipness Battle to Attract Young," Dewan and Goodman, 11-25-06. An excerpt from that article is quoted below:
" ... The problem for cities, says Richard Florida, a public policy professor at George Mason University who has written about what he calls ''the creative class,'' is that those cities that already have a significant share of the young and restless are in the best position to attract more.
''There are a dozen places, at best, that are becoming magnets for these people,'' Mr. Florida said.
That disparity was evident in a report released this week by the Metropolitan Atlanta Chamber of Commerce, which showed Atlanta leading the pack among big cities, while other metro areas, like Philadelphia, hemorrhaged young people from 1990 to 2000. (In this competition, surveys that make a city look good are a favorite opening salvo.)
In that decade, the Atlanta study said, the number of 25- to-34-year-olds with four-year college degrees in the city increased by 46 percent, placing Atlanta in the top five metropolitan areas in terms of growth rate, and a close second to San Francisco in terms of overall numbers. Charlotte, N.C., also outperformed Atlanta, with a growth rate of 57 percent, the second highest in the country after Las Vegas. ..."
Do any of you think Tulsa can compete in this league? Get a grip.
As things stand Tulsa could not win a Hipness competition with those cities. But if Tulsa's pay scale was competitive with those towns it could be a contender.
By the way I find that Tulsa is not so much hip as it is very family and children orientated. I still think that this is a great place to grow up.
It's just not a great place to earn the income that a family really needs. My hat is off to the people that have had to earn a living here.
quote:
Originally posted by jdb
That's it for me.
I tried to restart a "crappy post" because the dude said he knew where all the TN members ate, slept, peed, and even which branch each of us applied for our food stamps at.
I've seen nothing of the sort. Just some worming around. (which is polite for saying, "liar".)
But what I have REALLY seen here is yet again this dude pretending to be someone new, again, signs up on a Tulsa forum to blast Tulsa.
He's busted as a troll again but keeps right on going?
Best defense is he is trying to save us from ourselves because we still live here.
Or he's just not right in the head.
I have enough of my own and very real problems to deal with, unlike Hometown (I guess) and am more than willing to concider this dude a pitifull, waste and leave him to himself - for whatever kakamanie reasons he cares to conjure up.
To storm off angry and then spend every day after, reliving what made one angry - from a far away place - is *ucking nutty and the same as never leaving in the first place.
Better him then I on that note, jdb
Did you see the thread where Michael Bates told who everyone was and where they worked? "Neptune is actually ... and he works at ...," etc. I thought, give him long enough and the man will memorize every name in town.
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.
Tulsa has
*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills
And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.
Who asked for a comparison to Houston?
I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.
No, I have not read this entire thread. Because most of it is very tedious and childish. As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response. But that was not to be. I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread. I'm talking about this page, today.
Although his tone was a little more civilized earlier on in this thread, mainly thanks to Hometown's responses, his latest post was to say (and I quote) THIS IS A BUNCH OF CRAP! And, this thread and Davaz has a long history on this board. History doesn't matter to you? Well, it matters to me.
Speaking of going off on side issues...History in general matters to me. The history of this thread does NOT.
His "This is a bunch of crap" response was to AZbadpuppy's response, which was indeed a bunch of crap. That was a totally fair and acurate response. For the very reasons I have already gone into. It did not address or respond to Tul's post. It just threw a bunch of irrelevant statistics comparing OK and TX, which was NOT what Tul's post was about. Got it?
And your thoughts in response to Tul's post? (Mine in a post above.)
Actually, you are wrong again. Tul said, and I quote: "The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak."
If you are going to come and bash poverty in Oklahoma and you are from Texas, then you really prove what an idiot you truly are.
When presented with CITY statistics for Houston and Tulsa, you didn't much like that either, did you? Unless I missed something, Davaz does live in Houston, no? the place that is supposedly so much better than the poor backward hole that is Tulsa?
Sorry if you don't like the facts, but the truth hurts sometimes.
Well done. You managed to cherry-pick one little throw-away line out of an otherwise reasonable and thoughtful post to hang your hat on. (And by the way, I already noted my disagreement with that line.) Where did I say anything about "not liking the facts" you and Snopes posted? I honestly did not pay much attention to your and Snopes' comparison statistics, because, as I have repeatedly noted, they were not relevant to the subject of the discussion some of us were attempting to have. We can all dig up statistics that show the negative side of any city we want to focus on. Unless they relate to the primary subject being discussed,what's the point?
Whatever your past problems and issues with this guy may be (and I honestly don't know or care), this posting on this page of this thread was pretty reasonable and worthy of a thoughtful discussion.
Now, in one more attempt to have an actual discussion on the subject, do you not think it is logical and/or possible that Tulsa might have lost a good chunk of its upper-middle-class/professional people over the past few years?
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.
Tulsa has
*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills
And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.
Who asked for a comparison to Houston?
I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.
No, I have not read this entire thread. Because most of it is very tedious and childish. As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response. But that was not to be. I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread. I'm talking about this page, today.
Although his tone was a little more civilized earlier on in this thread, mainly thanks to Hometown's responses, his latest post was to say (and I quote) THIS IS A BUNCH OF CRAP! And, this thread and Davaz has a long history on this board. History doesn't matter to you? Well, it matters to me.
Speaking of going off on side issues...History in general matters to me. The history of this thread does NOT.
His "This is a bunch of crap" response was to AZbadpuppy's response, which was indeed a bunch of crap. That was a totally fair and acurate response. For the very reasons I have already gone into. It did not address or respond to Tul's post. It just threw a bunch of irrelevant statistics comparing OK and TX, which was NOT what Tul's post was about. Got it?
And your thoughts in response to Tul's post? (Mine in a post above.)
Actually, you are wrong again. Tul said, and I quote: "The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak."
If you are going to come and bash poverty in Oklahoma and you are from Texas, then you really prove what an idiot you truly are.
When presented with CITY statistics for Houston and Tulsa, you didn't much like that either, did you? Unless I missed something, Davaz does live in Houston, no? the place that is supposedly so much better than the poor backward hole that is Tulsa?
Sorry if you don't like the facts, but the truth hurts sometimes.
Well done. You managed to cherry-pick one little throw-away line out of an otherwise reasonable and thoughtful post to hang your hat on. (And by the way, I already noted my disagreement with that line.) Where did I say anything about "not liking the facts" you and Snopes posted? I honestly did not pay much attention to your and Snopes' comparison statistics, because, as I have repeatedly noted, they were not relevant to the subject of the discussion some of us were attempting to have. We can all dig up statistics that show the negative side of any city we want to focus on. Unless they relate to the primary subject being discussed,what's the point?
Whatever your past problems and issues with this guy may be (and I honestly don't know or care), this posting on this page of this thread was pretty reasonable and worthy of a thoughtful discussion.
Now, in one more attempt to have an actual discussion on the subject, do you not think it is logical and/or possible that Tulsa might have lost a good chunk of its upper-middle-class/professional people over the past few years?
You are missing the point entirely. Davaz is not, nor was he ever attempting to have a rational discussion about Tulsa. All he has ever done is spout the same rhetoric on how horrible a place Tulsa/OK is in comparison to Houston/Dallas/Austin/TX. Same crap I've always heard from so many people from TX. BORING!
I for one think this is a sad and pathetic attempt to make himself feel better, because obviously he is a lonely unhappy person with nothing better to do. I also am a bit tired of his spamming this board with the same nonsense that very few (save for yourself or hometown) care to hear about.
The bottom line is, it's no mystery that Tulsa has seen better days. The truth is that in the 60's thru the 80's Tulsa was one of the fastest growing cities in America, with incredible resources, limitless job opportunities and a proud, caring populace. The feeling was that there was nothing that could not happen here. If you want a good snapshot of the vibe of Tulsa back then you should find a copy of the National Geographic Magazine from 1983, I think April's issue titled 'High Flying Tulsa'. If Tulsa had continued on that path it would rival Dallas, Houston, etc today.
Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you talk to) Tulsa did not stay on that path, having lost much of its resources with the oil bust in the early 80's.
Those of us that lived in Tulsa and know it from that time period realize what this city can achieve because we've all seen it. We actually want Tulsa to succeed and become the incredible city she once was, even to surpass it.
So fortune 500 companies haven't relocated here yet- so what? Tulsa has incredible potential because the bones are still intact. The people that live here are some of the most caring, hard working and civic minded people I have encountered anywhere- and I've lived in a lot of cities. The fact that Tulsa has a rich heritage of architecture and supporting the arts only enhances the city and will be an invaluable asset for future growth for these things are very difficult to replace. Also, the fact that Tulsa has survived as well as it has over the past 2+ decades is a testament to
itself and the people that live there. Have many of the middle class jobs moved away in search of better economies? Of course. Will they return once Tulsa's economy improves (see OKC)? You bet. Tulsa will be more ready than ever to embace the positive changes that inevitably will arrive.
Sure Tulsa has its share of problems, but at least most of the people on this board are here trying to have intelligent discussions for positive ideas and solutions. Continually coming to the board (over 10+ times as different incarnations) where your only intention is to berate and belittle everyone to make yourself feel superior is nothing short of sociopathic behavior and should not be allowed IMO.
you may not "know or care" but he is "a loony"... he has proven to be genuinely delusional... beyond that, schizotypal, narcissistic, histrionic- it's a hell of a mix...
he has never in four years attempted to have a productive discourse about tulsa's shortcomings...
the immaturity of his concrete thought processes is astounding... his reliance on logical fallacies (non sequitur, straw man, stacked deck, bifurcation, ad hominem- you name it, he loves them all) is second to none...
as such, his posts have not warranted debate in several years...
he is to be pitied... he's our gollum...
on topic: it is quite obvious that tulsa has lost a number of professional (upper class/upper middle class) jobs in the past 10 years... was that the question?
I remember Tulsa's high flying days from the early 80s and I would like to point out it was "oil" not "diversification away from oil" that made it happen. And Tulsa was well into the diversification thing when the 80s rolled around.
AZbadpuppy, wouldn't you admit that serious discussion usually involves disagreement and criticism? Every time Davaz has reappeared as a new personality and started lobbing his criticism I thought – now we are finally going to have a real conversation. Then I'm disappointed to find out it is Davaz again.
This is a question: In the past haven't the administrators barred Davaz and forced him to assume new personalities in order to continue to participate?
I am well aware of being a guest here at TulsaNow and I like the electronic community the administrators have created. But I also think it is unhealthy for a forum to discourage open and frank criticism. Sort of like Bush not tolerating any disagreement. It's unhealthy. It's propaganda, not discussion.
And you are right AZbadpuppy, Tulsa still has good bones despite all the hair-brained destruction and development that has happened over the past 30 years.
Bruno, this is a real question. How has Davaz proven to be genuinely delusional?
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I remember Tulsa's high flying days from the early 80s and I would like to point out it was "oil" not "diversification away from oil" that made it happen. And Tulsa was well into the diversification thing when the 80s rolled around.
AZbadpuppy, wouldn't you admit that serious discussion usually involves disagreement and criticism? Every time Davaz has reappeared as a new personality and started lobbing his criticism I thought – now we are finally going to have a real conversation. Then I'm disappointed to find out it is Davaz again.
This is a question: In the past haven't the administrators barred Davaz and forced him to assume new personalities in order to continue to participate?
I am well aware of being a guest here at TulsaNow and I like the electronic community the administrators have created. But I also think it is unhealthy for a forum to discourage open and frank criticism. Sort of like Bush not tolerating any disagreement. It's unhealthy. It's propaganda, not discussion.
And you are right AZbadpuppy, Tulsa still has good bones despite all the hair-brained destruction and development that has happened over the past 30 years.
I am all for disagreement and criticism, but that is not what we are talking about here. It is obvious that Davaz has no intention of having healthy debates. His mind is made up and he seems hell bent on trying to make up everyone else's mind too. Kinda sad really.
I believe the majority has spoken and we really do not want the type of unproductive rantings that Davaz brings to the table. If he ever did present a constructive argument with constructive feedback then I think things would have been different. Why should one person be allowed to participate when they do not work well with others and create disruption rather than stimulate intelligent conversation?
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I remember Tulsa's high flying days from the early 80s and I would like to point out it was "oil" not "diversification away from oil" that made it happen. And Tulsa was well into the diversification thing when the 80s rolled around.
AZbadpuppy, wouldn't you admit that serious discussion usually involves disagreement and criticism? Every time Davaz has reappeared as a new personality and started lobbing his criticism I thought – now we are finally going to have a real conversation. Then I'm disappointed to find out it is Davaz again.
This is a question: In the past haven't the administrators barred Davaz and forced him to assume new personalities in order to continue to participate?
I am well aware of being a guest here at TulsaNow and I like the electronic community the administrators have created. But I also think it is unhealthy for a forum to discourage open and frank criticism. Sort of like Bush not tolerating any disagreement. It's unhealthy. It's propaganda, not discussion.
And you are right AZbadpuppy, Tulsa still has good bones despite all the hair-brained destruction and development that has happened over the past 30 years.
I am all for disagreement and criticism, but that is not what we are talking about here. It is obvious that Davaz has no intention of having healthy debates. His mind is made up and he seems hell bent on trying to make up everyone else's mind too. Kinda sad really.
I believe the majority has spoken and we really do not want the type of unproductive rantings that Davaz brings to the table. If he ever did present a constructive argument with constructive feedback then I think things would have been different. Why should one person be allowed to participate when they do not work well with others and create disruption rather than stimulate intelligent conversation?
Whether or not Davaz should be allowed to participate has never been put to a vote.
Remember junior high and the cooty kid? Each school had one. Remember how cruel the group was to that individual? There's just something about some people that makes them want to pile on when they sense weakness in someone.
I've participated in this group for about two years and I've never seen Davaz post anything that was very different from what some other people here post. Of course, I may have missed something.
Freedom and openess is disorderly. And I would say that one of Tulsa's problems is that it has more than its share of control freaks.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Bruno, this is a real question. How has Davaz proven to be genuinely delusional?
i "neither have the time nor inclination" to hunt through his archived posts but the statements, which predate both you and i, are there...
he holds to a series of fixed, false beliefs (i.e. everything in tulsa sucks or everyone who lives in tulsa is an idiot)... despite how patently implausible his generalizations may be, he is absolutely certain he is correct and his convictions are immutable regardless of contrary evidence... when i said he is narcissistic (//%22http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html%22), i meant it...
he is by no means the victim here, but i respect your concern for him...
quote:
You are missing the point entirely. Davaz is not, nor was he ever attempting to have a rational discussion about Tulsa. All he has ever done is spout the same rhetoric on how horrible a place Tulsa/OK is in comparison to Houston/Dallas/Austin/TX. Same crap I've always heard from so many people from TX. BORING!
I for one think this is a sad and pathetic attempt to make himself feel better, because obviously he is a lonely unhappy person with nothing better to do. I also am a bit tired of his spamming this board with the same nonsense that very few (save for yourself or hometown) care to hear about.
The bottom line is, it's no mystery that Tulsa has seen better days. The truth is that in the 60's thru the 80's Tulsa was one of the fastest growing cities in America, with incredible resources, limitless job opportunities and a proud, caring populace. The feeling was that there was nothing that could not happen here. If you want a good snapshot of the vibe of Tulsa back then you should find a copy of the National Geographic Magazine from 1983, I think April's issue titled 'High Flying Tulsa'. If Tulsa had continued on that path it would rival Dallas, Houston, etc today.
Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you talk to) Tulsa did not stay on that path, having lost much of its resources with the oil bust in the early 80's.
Those of us that lived in Tulsa and know it from that time period realize what this city can achieve because we've all seen it. We actually want Tulsa to succeed and become the incredible city she once was, even to surpass it.
So fortune 500 companies haven't relocated here yet- so what? Tulsa has incredible potential because the bones are still intact. The people that live here are some of the most caring, hard working and civic minded people I have encountered anywhere- and I've lived in a lot of cities. The fact that Tulsa has a rich heritage of architecture and supporting the arts only enhances the city and will be an invaluable asset for future growth for these things are very difficult to replace. Also, the fact that Tulsa has survived as well as it has over the past 2+ decades is a testament to
itself and the people that live there. Have many of the middle class jobs moved away in search of better economies? Of course. Will they return once Tulsa's economy improves (see OKC)? You bet. Tulsa will be more ready than ever to embace the positive changes that inevitably will arrive.
Sure Tulsa has its share of problems, but at least most of the people on this board are here trying to have intelligent discussions for positive ideas and solutions. Continually coming to the board (over 10+ times as different incarnations) where your only intention is to berate and belittle everyone to make yourself feel superior is nothing short of sociopathic behavior and should not be allowed IMO.
No, I'm afraid you're missing the point. Whatever his past history (and I agree it does seem a bit odd for him to keep coming back under different disguises; but I also thinks it's quite amusing), your statement that "All he has ever done is spout the same rhetoric on how horrible a place Tulsa/OK is in comparison to Houston/Dallas/Austin/TX." is demonstrably and obviously false. Let it go. Here, once agains is the post we (some of us) are attempting to discuss:
"Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.
I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.
From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:
1. Wealthy
2. Upper Middle Class Professional
3. Middle Class
4. Lower Middle Class
5. Poor
Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:
1. Wealthy
2. Lower Middle Class
3. Poor
We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.
To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.
Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it."
He barely referred to Texas or Houston at all, and when he did it was to acknowledge that it, along with every city has terrible poverty as well. It has been only you and Snopes who have attempted to turn this into a giant Houston vs. Tulsa party. It seems rather sad and pathetic (to use your words) that the response to a rather mildly critical observation of the reality in Tulsa is the equivalent, of "Yeah, so's your mother." ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
You are missing the point entirely. Davaz is not, nor was he ever attempting to have a rational discussion about Tulsa. All he has ever done is spout the same rhetoric on how horrible a place Tulsa/OK is in comparison to Houston/Dallas/Austin/TX. Same crap I've always heard from so many people from TX. BORING!
I for one think this is a sad and pathetic attempt to make himself feel better, because obviously he is a lonely unhappy person with nothing better to do. I also am a bit tired of his spamming this board with the same nonsense that very few (save for yourself or hometown) care to hear about.
The bottom line is, it's no mystery that Tulsa has seen better days. The truth is that in the 60's thru the 80's Tulsa was one of the fastest growing cities in America, with incredible resources, limitless job opportunities and a proud, caring populace. The feeling was that there was nothing that could not happen here. If you want a good snapshot of the vibe of Tulsa back then you should find a copy of the National Geographic Magazine from 1983, I think April's issue titled 'High Flying Tulsa'. If Tulsa had continued on that path it would rival Dallas, Houston, etc today.
Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you talk to) Tulsa did not stay on that path, having lost much of its resources with the oil bust in the early 80's.
Those of us that lived in Tulsa and know it from that time period realize what this city can achieve because we've all seen it. We actually want Tulsa to succeed and become the incredible city she once was, even to surpass it.
So fortune 500 companies haven't relocated here yet- so what? Tulsa has incredible potential because the bones are still intact. The people that live here are some of the most caring, hard working and civic minded people I have encountered anywhere- and I've lived in a lot of cities. The fact that Tulsa has a rich heritage of architecture and supporting the arts only enhances the city and will be an invaluable asset for future growth for these things are very difficult to replace. Also, the fact that Tulsa has survived as well as it has over the past 2+ decades is a testament to
itself and the people that live there. Have many of the middle class jobs moved away in search of better economies? Of course. Will they return once Tulsa's economy improves (see OKC)? You bet. Tulsa will be more ready than ever to embace the positive changes that inevitably will arrive.
Sure Tulsa has its share of problems, but at least most of the people on this board are here trying to have intelligent discussions for positive ideas and solutions. Continually coming to the board (over 10+ times as different incarnations) where your only intention is to berate and belittle everyone to make yourself feel superior is nothing short of sociopathic behavior and should not be allowed IMO.
No, I'm afraid you're missing the point. Whatever his past history (and I agree it does seem a bit odd for him to keep coming back under different disguises; but I also thinks it's quite amusing), your statement that "All he has ever done is spout the same rhetoric on how horrible a place Tulsa/OK is in comparison to Houston/Dallas/Austin/TX." is demonstrably and obviously false. Let it go. Here, once agains is the post we (some of us) are attempting to discuss:
"Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.
I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.
From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:
1. Wealthy
2. Upper Middle Class Professional
3. Middle Class
4. Lower Middle Class
5. Poor
Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:
1. Wealthy
2. Lower Middle Class
3. Poor
We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.
To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.
Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it."
He barely referred to Texas or Houston at all, and when he did it was to acknowledge that it, along with every city has terrible poverty as well. It has been only you and Snopes who have attempted to turn this into a giant Houston vs. Tulsa party. It seems rather sad and pathetic (to use your words) that the response to a rather mildly critical observation of the reality in Tulsa is the equivalent, of "Yeah, so's your mother." ;-)
Your ignorance of previous posts is obvious, and is the reason for this entire thread to begin with. This 'discussion' did not originate with the above mentioned post. You simply have chosen to ignore anything prior to it.
Davaz has never been 'mildly' critical, btw and his arguments have very little factual base, but instead relay an obsessive, opinionated, and bias judgement for which most people on this board have called him on.
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
You are missing the point entirely. Davaz is not, nor was he ever attempting to have a rational discussion about Tulsa. All he has ever done is spout the same rhetoric on how horrible a place Tulsa/OK is in comparison to Houston/Dallas/Austin/TX. Same crap I've always heard from so many people from TX. BORING!
I for one think this is a sad and pathetic attempt to make himself feel better, because obviously he is a lonely unhappy person with nothing better to do. I also am a bit tired of his spamming this board with the same nonsense that very few (save for yourself or hometown) care to hear about.
The bottom line is, it's no mystery that Tulsa has seen better days. The truth is that in the 60's thru the 80's Tulsa was one of the fastest growing cities in America, with incredible resources, limitless job opportunities and a proud, caring populace. The feeling was that there was nothing that could not happen here. If you want a good snapshot of the vibe of Tulsa back then you should find a copy of the National Geographic Magazine from 1983, I think April's issue titled 'High Flying Tulsa'. If Tulsa had continued on that path it would rival Dallas, Houston, etc today.
Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you talk to) Tulsa did not stay on that path, having lost much of its resources with the oil bust in the early 80's.
Those of us that lived in Tulsa and know it from that time period realize what this city can achieve because we've all seen it. We actually want Tulsa to succeed and become the incredible city she once was, even to surpass it.
So fortune 500 companies haven't relocated here yet- so what? Tulsa has incredible potential because the bones are still intact. The people that live here are some of the most caring, hard working and civic minded people I have encountered anywhere- and I've lived in a lot of cities. The fact that Tulsa has a rich heritage of architecture and supporting the arts only enhances the city and will be an invaluable asset for future growth for these things are very difficult to replace. Also, the fact that Tulsa has survived as well as it has over the past 2+ decades is a testament to
itself and the people that live there. Have many of the middle class jobs moved away in search of better economies? Of course. Will they return once Tulsa's economy improves (see OKC)? You bet. Tulsa will be more ready than ever to embace the positive changes that inevitably will arrive.
Sure Tulsa has its share of problems, but at least most of the people on this board are here trying to have intelligent discussions for positive ideas and solutions. Continually coming to the board (over 10+ times as different incarnations) where your only intention is to berate and belittle everyone to make yourself feel superior is nothing short of sociopathic behavior and should not be allowed IMO.
No, I'm afraid you're missing the point. Whatever his past history (and I agree it does seem a bit odd for him to keep coming back under different disguises; but I also thinks it's quite amusing), your statement that "All he has ever done is spout the same rhetoric on how horrible a place Tulsa/OK is in comparison to Houston/Dallas/Austin/TX." is demonstrably and obviously false. Let it go. Here, once agains is the post we (some of us) are attempting to discuss:
"Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.
I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.
From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:
1. Wealthy
2. Upper Middle Class Professional
3. Middle Class
4. Lower Middle Class
5. Poor
Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:
1. Wealthy
2. Lower Middle Class
3. Poor
We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.
To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.
Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it."
He barely referred to Texas or Houston at all, and when he did it was to acknowledge that it, along with every city has terrible poverty as well. It has been only you and Snopes who have attempted to turn this into a giant Houston vs. Tulsa party. It seems rather sad and pathetic (to use your words) that the response to a rather mildly critical observation of the reality in Tulsa is the equivalent, of "Yeah, so's your mother." ;-)
Your ignorance of previous posts is obvious, and is the reason for this entire thread to begin with. This 'discussion' did not originate with the above mentioned post. You simply have chosen to ignore anything prior to it.
Davaz has never been 'mildly' critical, btw and his arguments have very little factual base, but instead relay an obsessive, opinionated, and bias judgement for which most people on this board have called him on.
Yes, I am
intentionally ignorant of the prior posts and would just as soon stay that way. And, yes I am choosing to ignore anything prior to this discussion, because Hometown and, it appears, Tulitlikeitis, were attempting to steer the discussion in a serious, respectful direction, making the prior posts irrelevant. (Yes, I believe in redemption.) But you would have none of that!
And once again your statement that he has never been 'mildly' critical is demonstrably, obviously false. Where in the post we are attempting to discuss is there anything beyond mild criticism? Why can't you just discuss the thoughts about Tulsa without dredging up your past issues?
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:
1. Wealthy
2. Upper Middle Class Professional
3. Middle Class
4. Lower Middle Class
5. Poor
Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:
1. Wealthy
2. Lower Middle Class
3. Poor
We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.
I'm going to ask you to come up with some census numbers and show this is true before I bother to rebut. Your evidence is barely anecdotal - you don't even give specific experience, let alone specific statistics.
Your contention that the middle class in Tulsa has been "seriously reduced" is laughable. Ha. I'm laughing at you. Because I know you're wrong. And don't show me a 3% decrease in the second quintile of income. I want to see a "serious reduction."
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
You are missing the point entirely. Davaz is not, nor was he ever attempting to have a rational discussion about Tulsa. All he has ever done is spout the same rhetoric on how horrible a place Tulsa/OK is in comparison to Houston/Dallas/Austin/TX. Same crap I've always heard from so many people from TX. BORING!
I for one think this is a sad and pathetic attempt to make himself feel better, because obviously he is a lonely unhappy person with nothing better to do. I also am a bit tired of his spamming this board with the same nonsense that very few (save for yourself or hometown) care to hear about.
The bottom line is, it's no mystery that Tulsa has seen better days. The truth is that in the 60's thru the 80's Tulsa was one of the fastest growing cities in America, with incredible resources, limitless job opportunities and a proud, caring populace. The feeling was that there was nothing that could not happen here. If you want a good snapshot of the vibe of Tulsa back then you should find a copy of the National Geographic Magazine from 1983, I think April's issue titled 'High Flying Tulsa'. If Tulsa had continued on that path it would rival Dallas, Houston, etc today.
Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you talk to) Tulsa did not stay on that path, having lost much of its resources with the oil bust in the early 80's.
Those of us that lived in Tulsa and know it from that time period realize what this city can achieve because we've all seen it. We actually want Tulsa to succeed and become the incredible city she once was, even to surpass it.
So fortune 500 companies haven't relocated here yet- so what? Tulsa has incredible potential because the bones are still intact. The people that live here are some of the most caring, hard working and civic minded people I have encountered anywhere- and I've lived in a lot of cities. The fact that Tulsa has a rich heritage of architecture and supporting the arts only enhances the city and will be an invaluable asset for future growth for these things are very difficult to replace. Also, the fact that Tulsa has survived as well as it has over the past 2+ decades is a testament to
itself and the people that live there. Have many of the middle class jobs moved away in search of better economies? Of course. Will they return once Tulsa's economy improves (see OKC)? You bet. Tulsa will be more ready than ever to embace the positive changes that inevitably will arrive.
Sure Tulsa has its share of problems, but at least most of the people on this board are here trying to have intelligent discussions for positive ideas and solutions. Continually coming to the board (over 10+ times as different incarnations) where your only intention is to berate and belittle everyone to make yourself feel superior is nothing short of sociopathic behavior and should not be allowed IMO.
No, I'm afraid you're missing the point. Whatever his past history (and I agree it does seem a bit odd for him to keep coming back under different disguises; but I also thinks it's quite amusing), your statement that "All he has ever done is spout the same rhetoric on how horrible a place Tulsa/OK is in comparison to Houston/Dallas/Austin/TX." is demonstrably and obviously false. Let it go. Here, once agains is the post we (some of us) are attempting to discuss:
"Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.
I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.
From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:
1. Wealthy
2. Upper Middle Class Professional
3. Middle Class
4. Lower Middle Class
5. Poor
Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:
1. Wealthy
2. Lower Middle Class
3. Poor
We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.
To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.
Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it."
He barely referred to Texas or Houston at all, and when he did it was to acknowledge that it, along with every city has terrible poverty as well. It has been only you and Snopes who have attempted to turn this into a giant Houston vs. Tulsa party. It seems rather sad and pathetic (to use your words) that the response to a rather mildly critical observation of the reality in Tulsa is the equivalent, of "Yeah, so's your mother." ;-)
Your ignorance of previous posts is obvious, and is the reason for this entire thread to begin with. This 'discussion' did not originate with the above mentioned post. You simply have chosen to ignore anything prior to it.
Davaz has never been 'mildly' critical, btw and his arguments have very little factual base, but instead relay an obsessive, opinionated, and bias judgement for which most people on this board have called him on.
Yes, I am intentionally ignorant of the prior posts and would just as soon stay that way. And, yes I am choosing to ignore anything prior to this discussion, because Hometown and, it appears, Tulitlikeitis, were attempting to steer the discussion in a serious, respectful direction, making the prior posts irrelevant. (Yes, I believe in redemption.) But you would have none of that!
And once again your statement that he has never been 'mildly' critical is demonstrably, obviously false. Where in the post we are attempting to discuss is there anything beyond mild criticism? Why can't you just discuss the thoughts about Tulsa without dredging up your past issues?
The 'thoughts' about Tulsa have been disussed at length by myself (read my post 2 posts ago- try not to 'cherry pick') as well as by numerous other people. Again, you are posting in a thread that you need to go back and see how it was started. If you wish to start a new thread for critcal/thoughful/provocative/constructive debates on the state of Tulsa then please do so. Just be forewarned that it will ultimately be steered off course by (insert whatever new incarnation Davaz has come up with recently) and will result in another pointless thread. This is the reason he keeps getting kicked off. Get it????
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:
1. Wealthy
2. Upper Middle Class Professional
3. Middle Class
4. Lower Middle Class
5. Poor
Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:
1. Wealthy
2. Lower Middle Class
3. Poor
We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.
I'm going to ask you to come up with some census numbers and show this is true before I bother to rebut. Your evidence is barely anecdotal - you don't even give specific experience, let alone specific statistics.
Your contention that the middle class in Tulsa has been "seriously reduced" is laughable. Ha. I'm laughing at you. Because I know you're wrong. And don't show me a 3% decrease in the second quintile of income. I want to see a "serious reduction."
Whoa, there. Slow down the attack machine, boys and girls. I quoted that language from someone else and said I thought it was an interesting theory that sounded plausible to me. AND I specifically said I would be interested to see some actual numbers or evidence, one way or the other. Your statement that you "know" its wrong does not qualify as evidence. ;-)
Originally posted by Oil Capital:
Yes, I am intentionally ignorant of the prior posts and would just as soon stay that way. And, yes I am choosing to ignore anything prior to this discussion, because Hometown and, it appears, Tulitlikeitis, were attempting to steer the discussion in a serious, respectful direction, making the prior posts irrelevant.
Why would anyone intentionally want to remain ignorant of anything, especially when it is relevant to this discussion? And since when does what YOU deem as a serious, respectful direction in this thread make prior posts irrelevant?
You attempt to come across as this great statesman Oil Capital, but allow me to let you in on a little secret. Statesmen know their history and it has a direct impact on the subject currently at hand.
You've also continuously derided any attempt at making comparisons between cities in Texas, more specifically Houston, by saying that no such comparison has been made. The comparison has been made, but your refusal to read prior posts and intentionally remain ignorant doesn't allow you to argue this point with any credibility. Again, remaining ignorant of the fact, and intentionally doing so I might add.
Also, when an argument as subjective as this is brought up, one of the methods we can use to measure the facts is to point out a source of reference. In this case, Houston, since Davaz has repeatedly inferred that Tulsa is inferior to Houston. When I have tried to point out the folly of his argument by providing statistics in prior posts, you respond with the same thing again and again about this thread not being a comparison between cities or regions but merely an honest, frank, discussion of Tulsa's woes.
That is NOT his intention, and if you would read and understand your history in this forum instead of remaining intentionally ignorant and trying to prove yourself to be the consumate statesman it would be obvious.
Davaz, tulitlikeitis, or any of his dozen or so previous incarnations are nothing but mudslingers trying to bash Tulsa and the rest of the state of Oklahoma with no real facts to back it up. And you are more than content to join hands with him and sing kumbaya during the whole process so that you can come across as this great statesman in the name of intelligent, considerate debate.
If you'll go back to an earlier post in this very thread, Davaz states that he has continually been p__ssing off the members of this forum and had no intention of quitting in the near future. Of course, to read this would violate your rules of remaining intentionally ignorant.
Apparently he's doing a very fine job of this, and it's proven by support from people just - like - you. While you come onto this thread and defend Davaz against others who are critical of this city but won't stand for Tulsa bashing, especially when it is not backed up by facts, Davaz is sitting back watching the resulting commotion and having one big laugh at our expense.
I'm pointing out that there Tulsa has not, in fact, lost large numbers of middle and upper-middle class residents. There's just no evidence to support this. We're not Flint, MI or Midland, TX. OC, you make it sound like the economic heart of the city has been gutted when a cursory investigation shows otherwise. Forgive the "massive attack," but you're making up lies about my hometown here and I care enough to point it out.
kumbaya my lord, kumbaya.
Hey Snopes most of the posts here at TulsaNow are critical of the status quo in Tulsa. If Tulsa was perfect there would be no need for discussion.
Now I personally was enjoying your angry retorts to Davaz. I thought of you as sort of our own cheerleader. But now I think your criticism of Oil Capital is completely misplaced. He really has been trying to answer your points.
And you, meanwhile, have refused to answer his simple question. What is your response to the present criticism of our fair city?
I could go on about Houston's problems. I know Houston, like you, and agree Houston has its share of serious problems. But I don't really care about Houston. Houston will muddle along without our help. We've got Tulsa to work on.
Floyd, you don't know me but I left town for 30 years. The contrast between now and 30 years ago is quite stark. 30 years ago, downtown was bustling, bursting at the seams. I can remember barely being able to snake through the traffic as we went to pick up my mom from her job at Standard Oil. Standard Oil left shortly after that. Tell me Floyd what do we have now that equals the oil company headquarters?
Now there's nothing wrong with having a good fuss but at the end of the day we should all join hands and say, we are all in the same boat and Tulsa needs our help.
I've said this before; I think Davaz could end up being one of Tulsa's most ardent boosters. But if he doesn't, we should all be secure enough in ourselves to allow his dissent.
My criticism of Oil Capital is justified, in my opinion, by his own admission of ignoring the history of Davaz. As for answering his questions to me regarding criticism of the city, I may have certainly missed some pointed questions directed at me, but the thread is really long and I have not read every single word of every post. I have tried to respond to Oil Capital on several occasions but he (or she?) has said again and again that this is not a comparison between cities, and I do believe that it is. I've leveled my fair share of criticism at Tulsa, such as the high crime rate, the lack of jobs in many areas, and more. I can take constructive criticism all day long.
Where I draw the line is when someone resorts to the same old "Okie" addage about Oklahoma being backward and poverty being everywhere you turn.
Then, when some of us try and defend our city with statistics, we're assaulted by people such as Oil Capital that want to come across as a statesman when all he is doing is feeding the devil we know as Davaz.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Floyd, you don't know me but I left town for 30 years. The contrast between now and 30 years ago is quite stark. 30 years ago, downtown was bustling, bursting at the seams. I can remember barely being able to snake through the traffic as we went to pick up my mom from her job at Standard Oil. Standard Oil left shortly after that. Tell me Floyd what do we have now that equals the oil company headquarters?
Not as much. Williams, ONEOK, BOK, plus a lot of smaller, more dynamic companies. Tulsa is not an oil boomtown anymore and never will be.
Look, I want to be realistic about our town. I've lived in Chicago, Houston and Dallas, and so I have a reasonable perspective on what Tulsa lacks. But I also have a reasonable perspective on what makes it unique and special. Overblown hyperbole about the city's decline is a lot of worthless hot air and it gets on my nerves.
Okay, I think I'm starting to see a pattern here.
Davaz, Thank you for your private message. I want you to know that I find your brief remarks in the message reasonable but I also want to ask you again to not send me private messages. I think you owe it to the people here to make your remarks in this public setting.
Some people have gone out on a limb to give you a hearing.
I believe there is a dynamic here. You make what you believe is a self evident criticism of Tulsa and some folks take offense and respond with anger and you respond to that with anger. You resort to private messages and emails to find a sympathetic ear. You don't understand why people don't just accept your criticism. Honestly, I believe your feelings are hurt by the anger you engender.
After considering all the things I've heard here so far I would still contend you aren't telling us everything. I believe Swake may be onto something. I would guess there were some problems with your personal relationships mixed in with your disappointment with Tulsa.
Bottom line: I think that your episode in Tulsa was a catalyst that helped you resolve some issues in your life. Lucky Tulsa.
Finally, I do believe your criticism of Tulsa is, as Floyd said – overblown. Not completely off the mark but overblown. And a healthy response from a native Tulsan to the predicament you describe would be to join in civic efforts to help Tulsa. Instead you think we are going to be impressed when you press your advantage and get into ostentatious displays of your material success. Any Tulsan can tell you that is bad manners. I don't mean to one up you but there are more important things than money.
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
I'm pointing out that there Tulsa has not, in fact, lost large numbers of middle and upper-middle class residents. There's just no evidence to support this. We're not Flint, MI or Midland, TX. OC, you make it sound like the economic heart of the city has been gutted when a cursory investigation shows otherwise. Forgive the "massive attack," but you're making up lies about my hometown here and I care enough to point it out.
Try reading a little more carefully. I did not make up anything. I merely read someone else's theory and I thought it sounded reasonably possible. Get a grip on yourself. I never suggested the city was hollowed out or that ALL of the middle class was gone. I think the more likely great loss is in the upper middle class/professional ranks. And there again, I never suggested they were all gone or that Tulsa was desolate; only that a bunch had been lost and it may be a factor in the seeming inability to get good leadership in Tulsa.
And by the way, there certainly is SOME evidence to at least raise a question. When you lose a fairly steady stream of profesional/high-skill level jobs that Tulsa has lost in the lost (e.g., Citgo, Parker Drilling, Sunoco, Wilcom/Level 3 etc.) it seems reasonable to ask the question. The jobs have been leaving and I know at least
some people have been following the jobs... THAT cursory examination suggest there might be some validity to the theory. But I guess you know it is not possible. So there you have it. All is well in Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
My criticism of Oil Capital is justified, in my opinion, by his own admission of ignoring the history of Davaz. As for answering his questions to me regarding criticism of the city, I may have certainly missed some pointed questions directed at me, but the thread is really long and I have not read every single word of every post. I have tried to respond to Oil Capital on several occasions but he (or she?) has said again and again that this is not a comparison between cities, and I do believe that it is. I've leveled my fair share of criticism at Tulsa, such as the high crime rate, the lack of jobs in many areas, and more. I can take constructive criticism all day long.
Where I draw the line is when someone resorts to the same old "Okie" addage about Oklahoma being backward and poverty being everywhere you turn.
Then, when some of us try and defend our city with statistics, we're assaulted by people such as Oil Capital that want to come across as a statesman when all he is doing is feeding the devil we know as Davaz.
I do wish you boys and girls would read the posts before responding with such nonsense.
I did NOT say anything about Oklahoma being backward or poverty being everywhere you turn. On the contrary, I explicitly disclaimed the part of the subject post that suggested poverty was in your face everywhere you turn in Tulsa.
Again, the subject is whether Tulsa has lost a bunch of upper-middle class/professional folks, and discussion on that point. How is a comparison of cities relevant to that discussion? Other cities have nothing to do with it. Even cities that you hate have nothing to do with it. Even cities to which a lot of those people have relocated have nothing to do with it.
(And btw, I'm not trying to be "statesman." I'm JUST trying to have a discussion of a reasonable theory about one of Tulsa's problems. That's all. Don't be such a drama queen.) ;-)
There are cheerleaders, naysayers, and everything in-between on this forum. Being closer to the cheerleader end of the spectrum, I react strongly when a naysayer gets some momentum. I understand when others do the opposite. Obviously we're civil in other areas of discussion, so it's not a major problem. This thread is good, though, for the point that although it may have problems, Tulsa is a fine small city where, at the moment, more things are looking up than looking down.
This is about as much fun as watching a train wreck... geez,
Oil Capital, post after post and you do nothing but talk in circles.
Top 10 Oil Capital freakazoid quotes:10. "Sorry, but Tulitlikeitis actually did post a thoughtful, non-flaming thought about Tulsa's problems and your response just attacks Texas with a bunch of unrelated, cherry-picked statistics, rather than discussing Tul's theory.
Any thoughts or arguments about Tul's theory?"---It's called BAIT, OC... bait... and you were stupid enough to take it; hook, line & sinker... unless you have some sort of hidden agenda we should know about?!?
9. "And what are you in now, the 7th grade, with your childish and quite revealing "Tex-donkey" comments? Grow up and TRY to have a civilized conversation."---Name calling? You seem to be REALLY good at that too. Pot to kettle... come in kettle...
8. "And there you go again. I'll just let the ridiculous personal attacks slide."---hmmm... that's mighty
snarky of you.
(See #9)7. "No, I have not read this entire thread. Because most of it is very tedious and childish. As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response. But that was not to be. I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread. I'm talking about this page, today."---This page, today, 12/6/06??? So you have no problem taking everything out of context. If you had even bothered to read posts from 12/5/06, you'd see this:
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
You want an indicator ... I will give you one.
One of the smartest companies in the financial business is Fidelity Investments out of Boston. They are the world's largest fund company and have keen eye as to where they locate their investor centers. They locate them where the money is!
Dallas and Houston are typical of big cities -- they each have four investor centers. But it is not all big cities. The following cities all have at least one.
Memphis
Minneapolis
Raleigh - Durham
Charlotte
Portland
Denver
Even little Palo Alto and Scottsdale have one.
Guess what about Tulsa and Oklahoma City? You guessed it -- not even one in the state.
Point made.
...and if you had bothered to read posts from 12/4/06, you'd see this craptastic gem
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
Where have you been living? On another planet? You must be blind.
If you have come from the Bay area as you said, the backwardness should be plain to see ... it sure was to me. If you don't see it, no amount of words from me would point it out. You see it everywhere ... cars people drive, their dress, food preferences ... everything.
Like I said before ... Tulsa is the land that time forgot.
By the way, leave characterizations of native this and native that to me. I may have been born there but I am surely not of there ... and there is a difference.
DAVAZ has a history. And you kept crying about personal attacks even AFTER
snopes tried to apologize to you for any perceived personal attacks.... this is when you start acting like a drama queen... oh, wait, did I say
start???
6. Where have I "jumped around from issue to issue"?---let me count the ways... you criticize someone for posting state stats and say
"You are surely aware that NONE of those links or facts are in any way related to, or an argument opposing that to which you responded," and despite
snopes posting stats comparing Tulsa & Houston, you go off like this:
"sorry, pal. My "argument" was only "fruitless" to those too biased to see. #1: Tul's statement was regarding Tulsa, not Houston or anywhere in Texas. #2: the stats provided were entirely about the states, not about the metro areas. Quite a different thing. "No, I did not contradict myself. The posting talked only about the STATE statistics. It provided links to backup those STATE statistics and made no reference whatsoever to any metro statistics that may have incidentally been in those linked websites." "I have no need or reason to read the entire thread. Why can't we talk about the post that started all of this.""And where is my contradiction? If you show it to me I'll own up to it." "
And besides which, tul's post under discussion had nothing whatsoever to do with metro comparisons. It was entirely about Tulsa."Speaking of going off on side issues...History in general matters to me. The history of this thread does NOT.5. "I also never complained there are no city-specific stats."---OMG, can you not read your own posts???
And you refuse to even read DAVAZ's posts from the previous day... what are you, Davaz's new sockpuppet???
4. "I don't know if you've noticed this, but you are the only one talking about Houston. Do you have just a bit of an obsession?"---I don't know if YOU'VE noticed that DAVAZ touts the glories of Houston almost as often as he bashes Tulsa.
3. "Where did I say anything about "not liking the facts" you and Snopes posted? I honestly did not pay much attention to your and Snopes' comparison statistics, because, as I have repeatedly noted, they were not relevant to the subject of the discussion some of us were attempting to have."Some of us? Guess the rest of us will have to suffer through your hidden agenda, OC... more about that later...
2. "No, I'm afraid you're missing the point. Whatever his past history (and I agree it does seem a bit odd for him to keep coming back under different disguises; but I also thinks it's quite amusing), your statement that "All he has ever done is spout the same rhetoric on how horrible a place Tulsa/OK is in comparison to Houston/Dallas/Austin/TX." is demonstrably and obviously false." ---Once again, any reasonable statement posted by DAVAZ is
BAIT. Your refusal to research the issue doesn't change this simple fact.
(See #10)1. "I do wish you boys and girls would read the posts before responding with such nonsense.
I did NOT say anything about Oklahoma being backward or poverty being everywhere you turn. On the contrary, I explicitly disclaimed the part of the subject post that suggested poverty was in your face everywhere you turn in Tulsa.
Again, the subject is whether Tulsa has lost a bunch of upper-middle class/professional folks, and discussion on that point." ---No, the nonsense is all yours and you're the drama queen, I'm afraid. You refuse to read the posts/thread in their context. You've been called on this, yet you continue to pretend the only time this thread had any meaning for you, is when YOU started reading and posting on it. I say
pretend because I don't believe you.
You've decided to hijack this thread and in the process show yourself off as DAVAZ's OKC-loving soulmate. Yes, our friend
Oil Capital deceivingly uses his screen name as occasional camouflage for his not-so-well-hidden OKC-centric agenda. Which is why OC doesn't want this debate to gravitate toward state statistics... it might lump Tulsa in with OKC. And when/if somebody praises Tulsa; well that's when OC will insist on using state statistics to blur the issue.
No, OC wants to narrowly focus the discussion on
"Tul's post re: the loss of upper middle professional and middle class Tulsa." Because it will give OC a chance to re-focus a thread that was originally about a
psycho-sockpuppet-psychic-wannabe into a dishonest DAVAZ-style discussion of Tulsa's negatives.
jdb smelled one rat. I smell another.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Floyd, you don't know me but I left town for 30 years. The contrast between now and 30 years ago is quite stark. 30 years ago, downtown was bustling, bursting at the seams. I can remember barely being able to snake through the traffic as we went to pick up my mom from her job at Standard Oil. Standard Oil left shortly after that. Tell me Floyd what do we have now that equals the oil company headquarters?
Okay, I'm not Floyd but I hadn't lived in Tulsa for years and years and think I have a reasonable idea of what Tulsa was like in 1976. Talking about how oil companies have left Tulsa is seeing the glass half empty....
In 1976, Tulsa had bottle clubs... god forbid you ask for a long island tea... the Allie Beth Martin East Regional Library opened. Garnett Rd was two laned... so was Mingo. And the city flooded again... wouldn't be the last time.
Sure, downtown was a lot busier. But the city has grown. It's grown to the south and to the east... and well, there's Owasso... and Rogers County was the fastest growing county in Oklahoma last year. Garnett Rd. has five lanes. Many intersections that were just grassy fields have all sorts of retail/restaurants, etc. Most have been constructed in the last 10 years. Many in the last 5 years. And from the looks of it, Tulsans do have disposable income. I see upscale restaurants, pubs, etc... that were NOT there even 3 or 4 years ago.
If you compare most cities to what they were like 30 years ago, you'd see the same issues. Downtowns in many cities nearly died off. But many in the rebounded in the 90s. Tulsa's a little behind but the negativity here is over-rated. Tulsa's just missing some civic investment that could help downtown turn the corner. There are little pockets of activity at night but not a lot to connect those areas...
Tulsa has something the biggest cities just don't have.... affordable housing. And tonight, I heard the tail end of a piece on KTUL about a buncha townhouses/homes being built around Utica that will sell for $750,000 to $2.5 million dollars a pop. So evidently, somebody's making some big bucks here.
I see lots of new building. I don't see a hollowed-out downtown/city core. I promise you I've seen much worse in other cities.
I was pleasantly surprised the last time I lived here-- only stayed about 10 mos... and that was the year the economy took it on the chin. I never really liked Tulsa; I never really hated Tulsa, either.
But I CHOSE Tulsa. I could have moved to many other cities. I narrowed it down to a couple of other cities and Tulsa. Tulsa didn't have boarded up buildings the way the other 2 cities had.
I really wish Tulsans would stop selling their city short. It'll never be "hip" capitol of the world... but it is a good value.
No boarded up buildings?
Driven around town lately, try taking a drive along Admiral from downtown to 129th Street or Pine or Apache in the same area.
Even around 11th, 15th and 21st are several buildings that have been boarded up with Available Dot Com signs which have been up so long the paint has faded off.
Check with a few of the big commercial real estate brokers. Many have entire shopping centers that have but 2 or 3 tenants all over Tulsa.
Many of the vacant units have had all the copper wire and pipe, plus aluminum Air Conditioner units stipped and stolen out of them by thieves.
Go check out West Tulsa's industrial parks, or what is left of them. Run out East and take a close look at the Rail Road Wheel plant North of Pine about 151st street that never opened, or the Albertson's Food Distribution Warehouse that failed due to the sluggish failing economy here. Then come back past the closed Hale Hassel food distribution warehouse that has set empty for years. There are several large buildings north of Pine between Sheridan and Memorial that sit empty.
Drive north on Lewis to where it ends and look to the West at that Industrial Park. Drive through and check how many buildings sit idle there. On your way back towards downtown take a close look along the side of HWY 75 at the large abandoned buildings near North of Downtown.
If you want lunch you could cruise out on Charles Page Blvd West of downtown Tulsa to the Knotty Pine Bar B Que, and see how many of those Industrial buildings are vacant and sitting idle.
Thought there was going to be a loop that connected Hwy 75 to Charles Page, but guess we need to raise the sales tax once again to make that happen.
Not sure if anything occupies the old Git N Go corporate space.
Then drive downtown, you will not have any problem locating a parking space there.
Get out of your car and enter a couple of dozen downtown buildings, the guard will kindly inform you that there are typically 3 or less floors occupied, if the building is even open.
I led a "feet on the street" campaign for a year. Every new hire was all the buzz about hitting Downtown Tulsa, "just look at all those buildings" they would shout out, the potential.
It was a big shock to many when they walked into those buildings to discover the real story.
On you way back south, stop by the Oral Roberts City of Faith building and take the elevator up to see the many floors that have never even been finished. They are just bare concrete.
Many things are not as they appear to be.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by snopes
My criticism of Oil Capital is justified, in my opinion, by his own admission of ignoring the history of Davaz. As for answering his questions to me regarding criticism of the city, I may have certainly missed some pointed questions directed at me, but the thread is really long and I have not read every single word of every post. I have tried to respond to Oil Capital on several occasions but he (or she?) has said again and again that this is not a comparison between cities, and I do believe that it is. I've leveled my fair share of criticism at Tulsa, such as the high crime rate, the lack of jobs in many areas, and more. I can take constructive criticism all day long.
Where I draw the line is when someone resorts to the same old "Okie" addage about Oklahoma being backward and poverty being everywhere you turn.
Then, when some of us try and defend our city with statistics, we're assaulted by people such as Oil Capital that want to come across as a statesman when all he is doing is feeding the devil we know as Davaz.
I do wish you boys and girls would read the posts before responding with such nonsense.
I did NOT say anything about Oklahoma being backward or poverty being everywhere you turn. On the contrary, I explicitly disclaimed the part of the subject post that suggested poverty was in your face everywhere you turn in Tulsa.
Again, the subject is whether Tulsa has lost a bunch of upper-middle class/professional folks, and discussion on that point. How is a comparison of cities relevant to that discussion? Other cities have nothing to do with it. Even cities that you hate have nothing to do with it. Even cities to which a lot of those people have relocated have nothing to do with it.
(And btw, I'm not trying to be "statesman." I'm JUST trying to have a discussion of a reasonable theory about one of Tulsa's problems. That's all. Don't be such a drama queen.) ;-)
No OC, the subject is not only that a bunch of upper-middle class/professional folks are leaving Tulsa. That is the only part of this discussion that YOU wish to recognize; all other parts of the discussion are off limits in your opinion because you want to steer the course of all discussion toward only those things that you recognize.
If you would take off your selective glasses, the subject also has to do with Tulsa being inferior to other cities because (in Davaz' own words) WE ARE A BACKWARD PEOPLE, OKIES, that cannot possibly understand our dilemma and it is indicated by the manner in which we dress, the cars we drive, and so on. You choose to ignore all of those posts from Davaz and because YOU think he suddenly saw the light and is here to offer a thoughtful, honest discourse on the economic, social, and other woes of Tulsa, Oklahoma. Any of Davaz' posts prior to your entry into this discussion are deemed by you to be irrelevant, because of course, you are the only person capable of understanding the true nature of Davaz and his thoughtful, constructive criticism of Tulsa.
Comparisons between cities are okay as long as Davaz does this, but when I or anyone else try to refute his assertions by bringing up statistics we're chastised by you for not participating in thoughtful, progressive discussion - therefore, in your opinion we are just mean spirited people that can't take criticism of our city and anything we say is irrelevant.
Oh, but of course, those posts by Davaz were prior to your intervention in this thread, and since nothing matters prior to your arrival I suppose all of that is null and void.
USRufnex made several very good points, and one among them was that Davaz' comments were BAIT, which you took hook, line, and sinker. You seem to be very selective about what you want to argue about, not wishing to look at the entire picture, or to put it bluntly, you prefer to remain blissfully ignorant of the facts. And to use a line of yours, "There you go again with the name-calling." I can assure you I am no drama queen.
And I did NOT say that YOU inferred Oklahoma was poverty stricken at every turn. That was a post by Davaz, but again your refusal to read any of his prior posts and therefore remain ignorant would prevent you from knowing that. It's kind of like pleading the 5th for you, this ignorance is bliss philosophy.
I have NO problem with criticism of Tulsa, I've questioned decisions by Tulsa leadership, made sarcastic remarks about the lack of jobs in certain areas, and have participated in many discussion in areas where Tulsa is lacking. My point is, in regards to THIS topic, is that Tulsa is NOT backward, is NOT some backwater cesspool that doesn't know its arse from a hole in the ground, it is a fine city that has problems just like any other city. Constructive criticism is fine, but when someone comes on to this board and 99.8 percent of the comments they spew are nothing but slanderous attempts to make Tulsa, and all of Oklahoma out to be a bunch of toothless hillbillies, I take exception to that. I don't choose to remain ignorant, and I certainly won't give Davaz or anyone who defends him a pass on such commentary.
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
No boarded up buildings?
Driven around town lately, try taking a drive along Admiral from downtown to 129th Street or Pine or Apache in the same area.
Even around 11th, 15th and 21st are several buildings that have been boarded up with Available Dot Com signs which have been up so long the paint has faded off.
Check with a few of the big commercial real estate brokers. Many have entire shopping centers that have but 2 or 3 tenants all over Tulsa.
Many of the vacant units have had all the copper wire and pipe, plus aluminum Air Conditioner units stipped and stolen out of them by thieves.
Go check out West Tulsa's industrial parks, or what is left of them. Run out East and take a close look at the Rail Road Wheel plant North of Pine about 151st street that never opened, or the Albertson's Food Distribution Warehouse that failed due to the sluggish failing economy here. Then come back past the closed Hale Hassel food distribution warehouse that has set empty for years. There are several large buildings north of Pine between Sheridan and Memorial that sit empty.
Drive north on Lewis to where it ends and look to the West at that Industrial Park. Drive through and check how many buildings sit idle there. On your way back towards downtown take a close look along the side of HWY 75 at the large abandoned buildings near North of Downtown.
If you want lunch you could cruise out on Charles Page Blvd West of downtown Tulsa to the Knotty Pine Bar B Que, and see how many of those Industrial buildings are vacant and sitting idle.
Thought there was going to be a loop that connected Hwy 75 to Charles Page, but guess we need to raise the sales tax once again to make that happen.
Not sure if anything occupies the old Git N Go corporate space.
Then drive downtown, you will not have any problem locating a parking space there.
Get out of your car and enter a couple of dozen downtown buildings, the guard will kindly inform you that there are typically 3 or less floors occupied, if the building is even open.
I led a "feet on the street" campaign for a year. Every new hire was all the buzz about hitting Downtown Tulsa, "just look at all those buildings" they would shout out, the potential.
It was a big shock to many when they walked into those buildings to discover the real story.
On you way back south, stop by the Oral Roberts City of Faith building and take the elevator up to see the many floors that have never even been finished. They are just bare concrete.
Many things are not as they appear to be.
Thanks for taking the time to draw this out for us AMP. I was talking with a native son real estate agent about the oil companies leaving town and he recounted a startling number that I wish I could remember. It was something like 68% of the commercial real estate in town was owned by or had been leased out to the oil business when we were growing up here in the 60s.
People will argue that business cycles and industry developments are beyond the control of any one city, but I do think the mantra of diversification prevented us from putting up a good fight. Tulsa oil business is still being cherry picked to this day.
USRufnex, you say Oil Capital has an Oklahoma City agenda? Too bad, looks like he would be a good advocate for Tulsa. Oil Capital, I'm just thankful you aren't Davaz.
ROFL
So many of you are such drama queens.
The only agenda I can fairly be accused of having is keeping things realistic and honest. The drama queens tend to not like facts very much when they contradict Tulsa mythology, and out come the personal attack artillery.
When I posted facts and numbers proving that the Tulsa mythology of having a far larger downtown residential population was simply not true, you would have thought I'd called everyone's mother a Nazi stormtrooper.
The response was similar when I posted facts and numbers disproving the Tulsa mythology that the OKC metro area is far more sprawling than Tulsa. There were wild cries and stamping of feet and wails of "they just aren't similar, they just aren't." (Never mind the facts; they can be such stubborn things.)
(And BTW, in both of those instances, it was not I who brought OKC into the conversations. I merely responded to statements, initially asking for support and then (having gotten no response other than some variant of "everyone knows that's true") finding the facts myself.)
I guess the drama queens are insisting that this particular thread is and must remain dedicated to bashing Davazz. So be it. Knock yourselves out. Is there are thread on this board restricted to grownups?
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
ROFL
...I posted facts and numbers proving...
...when I posted facts and numbers disproving...
Is there are thread on this board restricted to grownups?
So this cause's you to roll on the floor and laugh, eh?
How is posting some items and calling them "proof" "grownup"? Reads to me like a classic Dickbump Davaz line to me.
Ruf, nailed it, talking circles saying nothing.
Want a grown up thread? Go ahead, you try and start one, see what happens.
They get high-jacked, just you high-jacked this one.
Tip: don't expect much from a topic that has the word "crappy" in the title. jdb
just checking...
who currently lives in houston or has recently aggressively sought employment in and tried to move to houston?
let's start a list-
1) davaz (obvious enough)
2) ????
any additional posters want to fess up?
quote:
Originally posted by brunoflipper
just checking...
who currently lives in houston or has recently aggressively sought employment in and tried to move to houston?
let's start a list-
1) davaz (obvious enough)
2) ????
any additional posters want to fess up?
Bruno, every time I see your avatar and that signature line I get a good laugh. Not me. I've been offered jobs in Houston over the years but flat out turned them down because I wasn't interested; the reasons for which I've already stated. They weren't good jobs anyway, mostly contracts that were going to be short lived. A couple were full-time with benefits but I still wasn't interested. It's truly one of the last places I'd choose to live in these United States.
I made a reference to job hunting in Tulsa. Haven't considered Houston though I'll admit that I'm tempted to take a look at Dallas. Also thinking about San Jose. And also considering renting out the house and taking off for Latin America. What are you fishing for Bruno?
p.s. I think jdb missed his Pink Barn social grace classes.
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
ROFL
So many of you are such drama queens.
The only agenda I can fairly be accused of having is keeping things realistic and honest.
Well, I suppose you feel the need to flatter yourself. Nobody else will.
quote:
The drama queens tend to not like facts very much when they contradict Tulsa mythology, and out come the personal attack artillery.
Once again, after reading multiple posts from you on this thread............. pot to kettle..... come in, kettle.......... Tulsa?... Tokyo?..... Houston?.... Roger?
quote:
When I posted facts and numbers proving that the Tulsa mythology of having a far larger downtown residential population was simply not true, you would have thought I'd called everyone's mother a Nazi stormtrooper.
Yeah... and I remember getting frustrated at the Tulsa-is-better-than-OKC-no-matter-what-we-do crowd...... and suggested I'd like to buy the city of Tulsa a shot hoping it would kill the bug up their a$$e$...... that's about the time the thread got locked, if memory serves...
But EVERY time any discussion of Tulsa gets going, when somebody says something positive, you discount it. When somebody says something negative, you spare no effort to defend them. And it's magnified in this thread.
quote:
The response was similar when I posted facts and numbers disproving the Tulsa mythology that the OKC metro area is far more sprawling than Tulsa...
Yeah, and I remember that others from OKC were posting as well... I thought it odd that somebody with a screen name of
Oil Capital decided to join in... started off thinking you probably grew up in Tulsa and was using
Oil Capital in reference to Tulsa's "good old days"... didn't think anything of it at the time. But now I smell a rat.
quote:
(And BTW, in both of those instances, it was not I who brought OKC into the conversations. I merely responded to statements, initially asking for support and then (having gotten no response other than some variant of "everyone knows that's true") finding the facts myself.)
Nope, you got plenty of responses. Tulsa's downtown has more residents than OKC's. The facts were documented. The number wasn't "far larger" but it was larger... and Tulsa has sprawled of late but OKC was built for sprawl-- it was sprawling before the word sprawl was coined...
quote:
I guess the drama queens are insisting that this particular thread is and must remain dedicated to bashing Davazz. So be it. Knock yourselves out. Is there are thread on this board restricted to grownups?
Name calling.... once again.... pot to kettle...
Sorry, but I've already fallen to one or two of DAVAZ's sockpuppets thinking he was somebody who liked Tulsa but had to leave because he felt the city going downhill...
But that was simply a ruse he used as BAIT.
And of course you didn't refer to OKC directly in this thread... otherwise it wouldn't qualify as a
hidden agenda.
The cheerleaders on this board would do well to read a couple of works of current literature.
The first is "What's The Matter with Kansas" by Thomas Frank. It describes how a large section of the Midwest (including Oklahoma) has been made nearly inhabitable by a combination of rock hard conservatives and religious crazies.
The second is titled "Rise of the Creative Class" by Richard Florida. It describes how certain cities are going gangbusters in attracting young professionals. Is Tulsa among these cities? You guessed it ... not a chance
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
The cheerleaders on this board would do well to read a couple of works of current literature.
The first is "What's The Matter with Kansas" by Thomas Frank. It describes how a large section of the Midwest (including Oklahoma) has been made nearly inhabitable by a combination of rock hard conservatives and religious crazies.
The second is titled "Rise of the Creative Class" by Richard Florida. It describes how certain cities are going gangbusters in attracting young professionals. Is Tulsa among these cities? You guessed it ... not a chance
Hey, look... the return of the retard. Lost another political race in Podunk, Texas?
So you're saying Houston doesn't have rock hard conservatives and religious crazies??? You are out of your mind. Houston is crawling with Bushes and Baptists. And where does Florida rank Houston?
quote:
Originally posted by AMP
No boarded up buildings?
Driven around town lately, try taking a drive along Admiral from downtown to 129th Street or Pine or Apache in the same area.
Been there. Done that. Spent early childhood down the street from the old Guitar House off Admiral/Sheridan. Remember when there was a Utotem on the corner. Recently drove from Admiral/Garnett down to Admiral/Peoria. The area certainly has its problems, but I didn't see it as completely abandoned as has happened in other cities.
quote:
Even around 11th, 15th and 21st are several buildings that have been boarded up with Available Dot Com signs which have been up so long the paint has faded off.
Check with a few of the big commercial real estate brokers. Many have entire shopping centers that have but 2 or 3 tenants all over Tulsa.
If by "all over Tulsa" you mean there are several strip malls that have few tenants, you're right. But I've seen that in other cities. Heck, even the old Village Theater I used to go to as a kid is now a car lot, which is still better than having it all boarded up. Yep, bought coneys at the old Carl's at Executive Mall off 21st & Garnett... the area's changed alot... and I'd never considered Tulsa to be an ethnic city. Yet that area is decidedly ethnic.
And my new company (which has its headquarters in Chicago, BTW) chose to put its bilingual department in Tulsa. Those jobs could easily have gone to Chicago, but they're here. And that's a good thing. Something that indicates that for all the whining, moaning and belly-aching you hear around this city, somebody is doing something RIGHT...
quote:
I led a "feet on the street" campaign for a year. Every new hire was all the buzz about hitting Downtown Tulsa, "just look at all those buildings" they would shout out, the potential.
It was a big shock to many when they walked into those buildings to discover the real story.
The area still has potential. I saw a block or two here and there but nothing to connect it.
quote:
On you way back south, stop by the Oral Roberts City of Faith building and take the elevator up to see the many floors that have never even been finished. They are just bare concrete.
Many things are not as they appear to be.
Yeah, I worked at City of Faith hospital when I was in high school. I don't remember more than 4 or 5 floors open at any given time (and that included one floor reserved for intensive care and another just for "mental health.") Some of us used to take the elevator to different floors just to admire the incredible waste of space....
I'm not sure why you'd use this example since there were so many different Tulsa groups at the time that lobbied hard against the City of Faith getting a permit to build in the first place. And it was built with Oral's $$$, not city tax dollars. This was Oral Roberts' white elephant, not Tulsa's... guarded by a 900 ft. Jesus, no less. ORU's claim/spin was that evangelical Christians from all over the country would elect to travel to Tulsa for medical treatment; that turned out NOT to be the case.
The area around Skelly Stadium is actually alot nicer than I remember it being in the 70s. Southeast Tulsa has grown exponentially. Owasso and Broken Arrow have too.
If somebody wants to move to Chicago or the Bay Area or Boston or NYC or even Dallas or Houston, that's great. Hope you get a great job making great money.
Cuz you're gonna need it. As for the oil business... Tulsa's economic downturn after 9/11 would have been far, far worse if the city had most of its eggs in the oil industry's basket.
Imagine, Hometown, if "something like 68% of the commercial real estate in town was owned by or had been leased out to the oil business" back in 2001. The Enron effect would have been magnified in Tulsa many times over...
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
QuoteOverblown hyperbole about the city's decline is a lot of worthless hot air and it gets on my nerves.
Ditto that. [:D]
Hey, I went to art school, what do I know? But I think a lot of the current upturn in city revenues is oil related. I'd take 68% of Tulsa occupied by the Oil Business any day. Bold that and add an exclamation mark.
This is so strange. I've read you tearing into the status quo here and now your like Tulsa is perfect.
Well she is perfect in a Zen sort of way. But not because she's bigger and badder than anyone.
There are all these new civic groups formed to fight the problems you are trying to argue don't exist.
I mean admitting that Tulsa has some serious challenges is just common sense.
I'm into finding solutions. Admitting AMP's careful description into evidence is a good place to start. Then you say where do we go from here? Most of us want to end up at the same place. Tulsa Beautiful -- all happy and well fed. Peace in the valley. Money in the bank.
"...now your like Tulsa is perfect." - HT
Ok, nibbling at some bait, or letting myself in for a rabbit trail of reading: how about a question?
That no reasonable person, be they an olfactory challenged cheerleader, blind as a Fundamental Christian, or as deaf as Tom Baker, would ever use the word "perfect" to describe the Tulsa they see upon opening their front door: and scooching behind a pillow, the thought that just maybe you use the word, "perfect" here as an exaggeration to illustrate your point - what other possible reason would one (in this case, you) use the word "perfect" except as a snide remark?
Lazy diction?
"Hurdle the dead, trample the weak, and to hell with wonky-eyed, pink barn wankers!" - jdb
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I made a reference to job hunting in Tulsa. Haven't considered Houston though I'll admit that I'm tempted to take a look at Dallas. Also thinking about San Jose. And also considering renting out the house and taking off for Latin America. What are you fishing for Bruno?
p.s. I think jdb missed his Pink Barn social grace classes.
not fishing... got a bite, months ago, and landed it...
as luck would have it, i happened to meet a previously anonymous tulsanow poster...
/cue the music/
we met via a mutual acquaintance (who did not know that either of us were on here)... an initially benign conversation, fueled by alcohol, lead to a subtle disclosure of their internet identity... it was pure luck... i'm still amazed, that in my own drunkenness, i did not spill the beans... somehow, i was able to bite my tongue and play off the whole "interwebs"...
months later, after a telling flurry of biased posts, i used a PM to call their bull****... they tried to place me but were unable... i resisted offering up any identifying characteristics... concerned about being "outed", they backed off of the debate quickly...
to this day, they have yet to come clean on this forum about their "houstonian" (having nothing at all to due with davaz) bent...
we've met since the original instance... but they still did not get it...
nope. not fishing.
just cleaning them.
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
The cheerleaders on this board would do well to read a couple of works of current literature.
The first is "What's The Matter with Kansas" by Thomas Frank. It describes how a large section of the Midwest (including Oklahoma) has been made nearly inhabitable by a combination of rock hard conservatives and religious crazies.
The second is titled "Rise of the Creative Class" by Richard Florida. It describes how certain cities are going gangbusters in attracting young professionals. Is Tulsa among these cities? You guessed it ... not a chance
Hey, look... the return of the retard. Lost another political race in Podunk, Texas?
So you're saying Houston doesn't have rock hard conservatives and religious crazies??? You are out of your mind. Houston is crawling with Bushes and Baptists. And where does Florida rank Houston?
Houston is 7th from the top (San Fran and Austin are 1 and 2) while Tulsa is down in the pits at number 61 (even OK city is better than Tulsa).
Old Lawyer's trick -- never ask a question where you don't know the answer.
I could make a argument that Tulsa is perfect. But I would base most of the argument on intangibles. I've always been attracted to beautiful losers. What I love about Tulsa isn't based on every commercial building being occupied. And it isn't based on national recognition of our hipness. My ideal of hip would lean towards a well-kept secret, which Tulsa is. Okay, I admit it. I don't like to share what I love with the national spotlight. The national spotlight has a way of killing whatever it touches.
Sitting in a barn in the backwoods of Oklahoma watching Taj Majal perform for a small audience was -- hip. Going up to Pawhuska and eating chicken fried steak in a little Okie cafe and enjoying an afternoon of Native Americans dancing at an Osage powwow -- is hip.
Someone said something about our Hills. Thank you. When you said that I was finally able to see the obvious. The reason Tulsa is so physically beautiful is because of her hills and the depth of view that they provide.
Oh I could go toe to toe with Davaz. Davaz have you ever seen the Marland Mansion in Ponca City? I've been entertained in more than a few Texas mansions and nothing I've seen gets close to the Marland Mansion.
Our money is older. We have more class. Texans are prone to overstatement and going overboard in their displays of wealth. That's the national joke about Texas. Tulsans are masters of understatement and the subtle snub.
Tulsa's founders looked East. Your cities were all cow towns except for San Antonio which actually has a real history. Of course you folks are too wrapped up in yourselves to acknowledge that San Antonio is great because it was a Mexican city first.
Snide? I'd take Dorothy Parker over Al Goldstein any day.
quote:
Originally posted by tulitlikeitis
QuoteHouston is 7th from the top (San Fran and Austin are 1 and 2) while Tulsa is down in the pits at number 61 (even OK city is better than Tulsa).
Old Lawyer's trick -- never ask a question where you don't know the answer.
...mmmm... that cheese looks good.... mustn't take the cheese..... hmmm, gouda?.... okay, maybe just a nibble......
Yes, Davaz, I've read What's the matter with Kansas? from cover to cover. Good read. Fun book... "I laughed, I cried, it was better than Cats"... and my friend who grew up in Mississippi identified with alot of it, as well...
But I saw the author on Charlie Rose and quickly figured out the author's perpective was formed from a childhood of suburban-upper-middle-class priviledge. Last I checked, he chose to live in an overpriced Chicago condo.
Which is okay, I guess.
Oh, yeah, and I read alot of "Rise of the Creative Class" during my lunches in the Chicago loop. But I never bought the book since I was too broke after paying rent... You see, I happen to be a card-carrying member of the Creative Class but that card's been over its spending limit for years now... [8D]
If the overall ranking is based on the list below, then that means Tulsa is #61 out of a total of 332 regions. Here's a map.
http://www.creativeclass.org/map_ci.shtml
The Rise of the Creative Class
Why cities without gays and rock bands are losing the economic development race.
By Richard Florida
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0205.florida.html
When it comes to "gays and rock bands," you'd assume Tulsa wouldn't rank very high based on that sort of criteria, yet...
Tulsa ranks 10th of 32 medium-sized metro areas reporting populations 500,000 to 1 million in the 2000 Census-- for folks who are mathematically challenged, that's in the top third.
Hmmmm...
Top Ten Cities-Creativity Index-%Creative workers
1. Albuquerque 965 32.2
2. Albany, NY 932 33.7
3. Tuscon, AZ 853 28.4
4. Allentown, PA 801 28.7
5. Dayton, OH 766 30.1
6. Colorado Springs 756 29.9
7. Harrisburg, PA 751 29.8
8. Little Rock, AR 740 30.8
9. Birmingham, AL 722 30.7
10. Tulsa, OK 721 28.7
BTW, for those of you keeping score of Davaz's lies at home, OKC's overall score was 668 for an overall ranking of 83. Tulsa's score of 721 was somehow higher than the "creativity" scores of Las Vegas, Memphis, Nashville, Louisville, Jacksonville, Detroit and New Orleans...
yawn.
More lies, damnable lies and statistics...
http://www.mostlivable.org/cities/tulsa/home.html
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I could make a argument that Tulsa is perfect. But I would base most of the argument on intangibles. I've always been attracted to beautiful losers. What I love about Tulsa isn't based on every commercial building being occupied. And it isn't based on national recognition of our hipness. My ideal of hip would lean towards a well-kept secret, which Tulsa is. Okay, I admit it. I don't like to share what I love with the national spotlight. The national spotlight has a way of killing whatever it touches.
Sitting in a barn in the backwoods of Oklahoma watching Taj Majal perform for a small audience was -- hip. Going up to Pawhuska and eating chicken fried steak in a little Okie cafe and enjoying an afternoon of Native Americans dancing at an Osage powwow -- is hip.
Someone said something about our Hills. Thank you. When you said that I was finally able to see the obvious. The reason Tulsa is so physically beautiful is because of her hills and the depth of view that they provide.
Oh I could go toe to toe with Davaz. Davaz have you ever seen the Marland Mansion in Ponca City? I've been entertained in more than a few Texas mansions and nothing I've seen gets close to the Marland Mansion.
Our money is older. We have more class. Texans are prone to overstatement and going overboard in their displays of wealth. That's the national joke about Texas. Tulsans are masters of understatement and the subtle snub.
Tulsa's founders looked East. Your cities were all cow towns except for San Antonio which actually has a real history. Of course you folks are too wrapped up in yourselves to acknowledge that San Antonio is great because it was a Mexican city first.
Snide? I'd take Dorothy Parker over Al Goldstein any day.
Hometown, you are a persuasive writer. And if I had not witnessed the backwardness and poverty close-up, day to day ... I might be inclined to believe you. However, for me it is a case of been there, done that. Eight months was more than enough for me.
As to hip ... eating a chicken fried steak in a country bumpkin town is a lot of things but hip it is not.
All I can say is that the place depressed me a lot. My grandparents on both sides were leaders in the city (physicians, newspaper editor, etc) and they would be ashamed to see what the current residents have let the city become.
I would now like to hijack this thread... PLEASE KEEP YOUR TRAY TABLES IN AN UPRIGHT POSITION...
"Hometown, you are a persuasive writer."
HOOK
"And if I had not witnessed the backwardness and poverty close-up, day to day ... I might be inclined to believe you."
LINE
"However, for me it is a case of been there, done that. Eight months was more than enough for me."
SINKER
Evidently, eight months wasn't enough for you. You've spent well over eight months on this site as a lying little piggy. In fact, you've spent years on this site.
I've NEVER met ANYBODY who only lived 8 months in a city, then decided to systematically go on a website to do everything he could to trash that city.
I didn't like Ft Worth-less when I lived there... but haven't spent years on the FtWorthNow forum creating a dozen friggin' sockpuppets... let alone obnoxiously telling posters "I know who you are, where you live and where you work."
"As to hip ... eating a chicken fried steak in a country bumpkin town is a lot of things but hip it is not."
I suspect some of my artsy-fartsy 20-something-aged friends in Chicagoland would disagree with you. Truly creative folks tire of the politically correct... they tire of people whose only values involve how much money you make and where Fidelity Investments decides to locate their offices... creative folks LIKE hobnobbing with REAL people... some of those people live in Pawhuska... as well as parts of the Houston area you will probably never experience nor appreciate.
"All I can say is that the place depressed me a lot."
You're not the first and won't be the last... control issues???
"My grandparents on both sides were leaders in the city (physicians, newspaper editor, etc) and they would be ashamed to see what the current residents have let the city become."
Oh finally. So, it's your upper-crusty grandparents on both sides... family who probably never woulda given anyone from my family the time of day...
Gee, did I talk to you at a bar about 4 years ago?... because you sound EXACTLY like a spoiled rich brat who woulda never had a conversation with me had I not mentioned I lived in Chicago and was only in Tulsa temporarily for family reasons. Yep, he loved hearing me talk about life in the big city of Chicago. Yep, he kept telling me how bad things were in Tulsa and how his "daddy" could buy him anything he wanted. When I told him that so far I'd been pleasantly surprised since moving to the Tulsa area... he stopped talking to me....
which reminds me of another story.....
my first roommate in Chicago was a brilliant member of the creative class... smart... in the banking industry... grew up in Victoria, BC... and wouldn't allow me to erase my mother's telephone msgs on the answering maching (it was that long ago) because he loved that "southern accent."
He was excited to make his first business trip to Tulsa........ but he hated Tulsa. Not because of the "residents." But because of how "obnoxious" he found Tulsa's ultra-crusty upper crust. He found them mean and condescending... so I celebrate when any of those elitist folks decide they need to move to Houston...
I suppose if I won the lottery I'd buy a condo on the back bay of Boston... barring that, I'm perfectly happy living in a city where "random acts of kindness, senseless acts of beauty" are more than just a bumper sticker on the back of a lesbian couple's Land Rover...
http://www.metropolismag.com/cda/story.php?artid=1151
...oh, and my creative big city (Chicago) can beat up your creative big city (Houston) any day of the week... nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah... hey hey hey... goodbye. [:D]
I think it's time to bid a fond farewell (for now) to Tulitlikeitis. I wish we could say it's been fun.
P.S. Nice try with "Zavad"
quote:
Originally posted by Editor
I think it's time to bid a fond farewell (for now) to Tulitlikeitis. I wish we could say it's been fun.
P.S. Nice try with "Zavad"
Would you be willing to tell us why you are saying farewell to Tulitlikeitis? Is it a matter of violating a policy?
Yes, many and multiple. The basic of which is "Don't attack other people." For example:
quote:
Check this note out. After reading "borned, ourselfs and gotton" I believe this person is well suited for Tulsa. If hubby is the same level, CA will gain a couple of notches on the IQ scale.
He apparently sent emails to the person he berated above as well. If that was not enough, we banned him indefinitely about 12 times before with plenty of justification, he doesn't have to "break the rules again" to get banned again. We had every right to ban him as soon as he signed on.
As the leader of our country once said, "Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
If anyone disagrees with this decision, feel free to send a PM. If you agree, you can still PM. If you want to complain, you can do that too.