I took that route to work this morning. The sun was just coming up. The cold wind was blowing the leaves around in dancing swirls.
Riverside is a beautiful place. Almost breath taking in it's fall colors.
I know developing the river is something people are going to do. They don't see the beauty it has on it's own.
I realize now that the Channel Project would be the equivelent of putting condo's in Woodward Park.
I feel if they are going to develope the river it should be in a way that fits in with the beauty that's already there.
I also realize that any project that brings more people to the River parks will eventually create the need to widen Riverside Drive and add even more parking. In the end, Riverside will become an ugly tourist trap and be lost to all of us.
By the way, if you have not been to Woodward Park yet - please go. It was so beautiful on Sunday.
I could not agree more, that's another reason why the current river plan done by INCOG is better. It fills the entire river with water and just sets "nodes" of development, leaving the rest of the park system alone, even expanding it.
Now, Riverside Drive could be rebuilt, it's in pretty sad shape between 31st and I-44. You could improve and widen the street there mostly by just taking the houses that front Riverside, they are a huge hazard anyway when people pull out of their driveways. I would also like to see most of the side streets closed to riverside and some nice pedestrian bridges built over Riverside Drive from the neighborhood to the neighborhood is more easily connected to the park.
I used to live on 34th between Peoria and Riverside and driving there can be interesting on Riverside with cars pulling out from driveways and from side streets. Also, closing the side streets onto Riverside would keep the drunks from cutting through on side streets from Brookside to Riverside.
At least one city counselor lost his job in the early nineties promoting the widening of Riverside! Lets not even consider widening it for additional traffic. Lets take out the houses Swake refers to, close off the streets in the area and use the area as a buffer to the roadway like the small park and parking lot near the pedestrian bridge. Adding pedestrian bridges over the road would be nice too. It wouldn't bother me if it was narrowed with the addition of a mass transit operation like light rail. BTW some people believe that the widening of Riverside cannot utilize federal funds because it resides in flood prone areas. It might have to be on our dollar.
I like Tulsa's RiverSide jogging trail, However much of that trail is in poor shape and needs rebuilding, the pavement in spots is cracked and crumbling. Tulsa should also build more such trails They could extend the trail a few more miles south of 101st and have a full trail on the west bank of the river. New Trails can be run along Mingo creek. Omaha, NE. has a great system of jogging/bike trails all with NO street crossings, you can run your legs off and never have to worry about cars or trucks. Let's build something like that in Tulsa.thanx.[:)]
A great comparison is Chicago's Lake Shore Drive. It's got similar paths, parks, and recreational facilities. Lately Chicago has finished a complete overhaul of the Drive, with expanded landscaping and pedestrian infrastructure. The results are gorgeous.
Please never widen riverside, no need to. Would kill the connection to it and the neighborhoods. It would make the park feel more isolated and sterile, you need to have the trees on the other side of the road as close as they are to the trails and river to give it that cozy, comfortable feel. Widening the road would be horrible. Plus if you dont like the traffic, not that I have ever seen any real traffic other than say the intersection at 71st, live closer to where your going quit building more roads to encourage sprawl. If you like the way wider looks go live around 71st and riverside and see how you like that. Part of the beauty of the area of riverside near dowtown is the drive itself, with the trees overhanging the road, not just being in the park. If it turns out that people end up sitting in traffic it will force them to consider and desire living closer in and developing those urban walkable districts I thought we all said Tulsa needed more of? Dont block off the streets to the neighborhoods either. Shame on you for suggesting that. I have heard lectures and talks from developers and others like Jamie Jameson on how blocking off roads in the area around 6th and peoria killed those neighborhoods and even though some of the intent was to make crime less likely it actually ended up exacerbating the likelyhood by making literally dead end streets. There were many reasons it was a bad idea and they are now working to unblock them. Why do something I thought we had learned was the wrong thing to do?
As for development on the river, there should be different areas of different intensities. You can read this in just about any publication about river or park development and good neighborhood development, and it has been put out in this forum many times. From no development nature preserves, to park space to dense urban development. Any development on the East side should have sidewalks and trees in front of it keeping that beautiful look. And what patches of development are on the west side should be just that patches having a couple areas right on the water and some stepped back with the trails and trees in front. This way there is something of all types for everyone.
If Riverside were ever to be widened, I think it should only be widened to accommodate landscaping in a center median. That would just add to the cozy feeling. So long as no trees along the road's edges had to be taken out to widen it of course.
^ There is a possible decent way to do it. But still would rather see a west river side drive to carry more traffic and enable development on that side if it was felt to be necessary and or a monorail on that side. But I still dont like the idea of ever widening roads enabling more and more sprawl. Counter productive to where we want the city to go.
The wider Riverside becomes the more cold and impersonal it becomes (even with a center median). This is why I always feel happier driving north on Riverside rather than south...I know I'm headed into beauty rather than away from it. I think it is most beautiful north of I-44... and perhaps even best north of 21st. That's also my favorite place to walk: where the park is wide and the street is narrow and quiet. Funny how that works. (The west side is good for the same reason: getting away from the cars.)
I wouldn't want to widen Riverside any more...but I would like to see a solution to that one narrow, tight bend right by the Pedestrian bridge. I always wonder why there aren't more wrecks there. (But then again, maybe that bend in the road forces people to focus on their driving and slow down a bit.)
quote:
Originally posted by swake
I could not agree more, that's another reason why the current river plan done by INCOG is better. It fills the entire river with water and just sets "nodes" of development, leaving the rest of the park system alone, even expanding it.
Now, Riverside Drive could be rebuilt, it's in pretty sad shape between 31st and I-44. You could improve and widen the street there mostly by just taking the houses that front Riverside, they are a huge hazard anyway when people pull out of their driveways. I would also like to see most of the side streets closed to riverside and some nice pedestrian bridges built over Riverside Drive from the neighborhood to the neighborhood is more easily connected to the park.
I used to live on 34th between Peoria and Riverside and driving there can be interesting on Riverside with cars pulling out from driveways and from side streets. Also, closing the side streets onto Riverside would keep the drunks from cutting through on side streets from Brookside to Riverside.
I agree about all the cars pulling onto Riverside being a hazard. The homes with driveways emptying into Riverside could be dealt with to possibly just add some more green space along the drive rather than extra lanes. I'm not sure about closing off the neighborhoods but it is a great point. People pulling across such a busy road (with people doing 50+) drunk OR sober can be a problem. Maybe they could just fortify the median to disallow left turns. Then at 36th street they could have a merging lane since more cars will be coming out from there than other streets.
The east side of the street could get its own pedestrian path by taking out the houses fronting Riverside, and pedestrian bridges over Riverside could be added at around 45th and 36th where people would normally have to go a mile before having a safe place to cross the street on foot (Most people just make mad runs through a traffic obstacle course with their dog and baby stroller).
If they devlope Riverside they will also have to widen Riverside Drive to accomodate all the new traffic. That is a given. Riverside can get pretty busy as things are right now.
The last widening project was shot down because what he proposed was beyond stupid. Wasn't that the one where they would build a freeway kind of road above the existing road or something like that?
My favorite part of the River Park is the Grizzley Bear water fall at 71st and Riverside. It is so cool looking and an excellent resting spot when I am out riding my bike.
It's just far enough away from everything that it isn't full of trash and other annoying things. So it stays beautiful.
River Parks has a lot of good things going for it right now. I would rather spend the money to keep it a nice place to be and not destroy it with over populating it.
I wish people were more responsible with their things, but more people means more trash.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Tulsa should also build more such trails They could extend the trail a few more miles south of 101st and have a full trail on the west bank of the river. New Trails can be run along Mingo creek.
INCOG already has a plan to complete the trail along Mingo Creek. Right now it ends at 41st and picks up again behind TCC at 81st. Once they build that stretch and complete the bike/foot bridge under the Creek Turnpike/169 interchange, there will be uninterrupted trail running from about 11th and Mingo down the Mingo Creek, across town following the Creek Turnpike, and up Riverside almost to downtown.
That said, I heartily agree that it should be expedited. That Mingo Creek stretch could be my route to work!