I'm interested in the thoughts of TulsaNow forum members:
http://www.meeciteewurkor.com/wp/
See the article series at the top labeled:
"Tax Money and Illegal Labor Article Series"
There was a topic post on this forum somewhere where RecycleMichael asked me if I had something to share. I couldn't find that post again to respond, so I just made a new one.
regards
mcw
I don't recall if it was MCW or some other local blogger that confronted some possible "illegal workers" on a city site. Leave them alone. If you aren't the INS then they have nothing to say to you (in English or Spanish). Whether they are legal or not, it's not the job of joe schmo to ask them if they have a driver's license or a SS number.
I have been reading Meeciteewurkor's site as he posted each of these essays. He also mentions filing complaints and doing research on each of the vision contractors and sub-contractors on the arena.
If I was one of the companies, I would be afraid of the exposure he will bring.
Anyone else? I really am interested in your opinion. Even if you completely disagree with me and think I am completely in the wrong, I'd like to hear about it.
I think it's always good to do things like this. Even if you leave them alone for the rest of your life. Nothing beats honesty through paranoia.
It's interesting reading. Didn't have time to read all of it. Really don't like the use of terms like "liberal wackos" for people who might criticize you, unless you like the term "racist".
Keep up the study but keep your backside covered. You got spunk...government hates spunk. I would suggest never talking to any govt. or authority employee without having a witness and a recording device. The idea that our own local government is knowingly participating in this is offensive to me. We can do better.
I agree with Inteller.
quote:
Originally posted by NellieBly
I don't recall if it was MCW or some other local blogger that confronted some possible "illegal workers" on a city site. Leave them alone. If you aren't the INS then they have nothing to say to you (in English or Spanish). Whether they are legal or not, it's not the job of joe schmo to ask them if they have a driver's license or a SS number.
(http://x2d.xanga.com/6ddb97210633245491955/b30490737.jpg)This attitude reminds me of New York citizens that walk by and look the other way when a fellow citizen is being beaten or robbed on the sidewalks. This mentallity of not wanting to get involved will some day bring this country down.
meeciteewurkor I applaud your efforts. I to have a camcorder at your service. I don't understand why I have to follow the laws but a foreigner doesn't.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
i dont really think racist is equivilent to liberal whacko. calling someone a liberal wacko is like claling someone a "doodie head" It doesn't really carry any weight with it other than to the person saying it. Calling someone a racist however is very charged and without proof a person could be slapped with libel.
He related the the two labels, not me. If you don't want to be called names, don't participate. One can also sue for being called a liberal or a whacko should either be unprovable, malicious and damaging. The name-calling tarnishes his effort.
MCW-
I'm sort of pressed for time this morning and didn't have time to read very far into your link, but will when I get some time.
I think you have to use caution when you drive by a construction site and you assume just because there are brown-skinned workers on-site they don't all have proper documents or are here illegally.
It's quite likely that there are illegal aliens on many construction sites, however, it is very, very easy for people to get very good forged documents. As long as the employer is presented with an immigration card and SSI card, that is all that is required. If employers refused to hire anyone of Mexican origin from fear of employing someone with bogus documents, then they could face a law suit from the ACLU or any other number of individuals or groups.
I have seen some very questionable things the last few weeks at work, like a job applicant being able to come up with a social security card in a matter of a couple of days and a driver's license when we pointed out his name did not match on his INS card with his SSI card and he had no DL. No, we did not hire him when he re-appeared with new documents.
I mentioned this to a friend of mine at the bar last night who works in another industry. He said for $1000 or less, you can get a green card, social security card, and a California or Texas driver's lic.
The bookkeeper at my office said you can now verify social security numbers with the SSA, but only *after* you have hired someone, it's apparently not legal to check it prior to hiring- which sounds incredibly stupid.
The government has to know there are people producing these forgeries, and it would appear nothing is being done about it. I don't see how hard it would be to run a sting operation on these people producing the forgeries and it would put a dent in illegal immigration.
Is anyone else aware that there are no guidelines on how many dependents or exemptions you can claim on a W-4? They have dropped the limit of ten. IOW, immigrant workers can and do frequently claim nine exemptions even when they are single with no kids and an employer can do nothing about it.
Not a problem if they file a tax return and settle up with the gov't every April, if only they would.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Is anyone else aware that there are no guidelines on how many dependents or exemptions you can claim on a W-4? They have dropped the limit of ten. IOW, immigrant workers can and do frequently claim nine exemptions even when they are single with no kids and an employer can do nothing about it.
Not a problem if they file a tax return and settle up with the gov't every April, if only they would.
i believe you can report fraudsters to the IRS, even if they are your employees. then they will come to your workplace looking for them and you can point them out.
By the tax code, claiming more exemptions than you logically should be entitled to is not fraud because it is expected that you will settle up with the IRS come Apr. 15. It's not incumbent upon employers to make sure their employees file timely tax returns or whether or not they file at all.
There are a lot of loopholes and government-sponsored charity that make the exodus *into* our country so attractive.
There's really nothing for them to audit if someone doesn't turn in a 1040. I've heard of people going for years (citizens and non-citizens) without filing a return even though the gov't gets their W-2 or 1099's every year. As long as the employer has followed guidelines on withholding there's nothing they can be held liable for.
It's all on the back of the worker to file his/her tax form. However, with the IRS under-staffed and over-worked as it is, they spend most of their time going after the large fish instead of worrying about people who underpaid/underwithheld their taxes on $20,000 or so of gross income. Taken as a whole though, ignoring every smaller tax scofflaw costs the U.S. a ton in lost revenue, but what's the enforcement cost to get it?
Keep it up mee, you have the support of an overwhelming majority of Tulsans. If more people south of the border would stand up to demand a better quality of life and improved standard of living in their own countries instead of running away from their hardships to exploit the generosity of the USA they wouldn't have to leave their countries to have a better life.
quote:
Originally posted by alanoftulsa
This attitude reminds me of New York citizens that walk by and look the other way when a fellow citizen is being beaten or robbed on the sidewalks. This mentallity of not wanting to get involved will some day bring this country down.
That was a very nice and sensational apples to oranges argument. You could have compared it to turning your head when you see someone (yourself, perhaps) breaking the speed limit or under-reporting their income at tax time. But that wouldn't be sensational because it wouldn't have a bleeding suffering victim in it so the grandstanding effect would be lost.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
It's interesting reading. Didn't have time to read all of it. Really don't like the use of terms like "liberal wackos" for people who might criticize you, unless you like the term "racist".
Good point. That's the reason I don't bother reading right wing or left wing blogs any more. If you disagree with them, you're a "liberal whacko" or whatever.
Food for thought:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800613_pf.html
quote:
While most of the government's get-tough rhetoric has focused on people illegally crossing the border, others noted, about 40 percent of the nearly 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States entered the country legally on visas and simply stayed. That means they probably can be caught only at work.
Major work-site crackdowns have run into trouble in the past. A spring 1998 sweep that targeted the Vidalia onion harvest in Georgia, and Operation Vanguard, a 1999 clampdown on meatpacking plants in Nebraska, Iowa and South Dakota, provide case studies of how the government fared when confronted by a coalition that included low-wage immigrant workers and the industries that hire them, analysts said.
The Georgia raids netted 4,034 illegal immigrants, prompting other unauthorized workers to stay home. As the $90 million onion crop sat in the field, farmers "started screaming to their local representatives," said Bart Szafnicki, INS assistant district director for investigations in Atlanta from 1991 to 2001.
Georgia's two senators and three of its House members, led by then-Sen. Paul Coverdell (R) and Rep. Jack Kingston (R), complained in a letter to Washington that the INS did not understand the needs of America's farmers. The raids stopped.
quote:
Company officials who knowingly employ illegal workers can be fined and, if they continue, face jail time. Housing or harboring illegal workers or laundering money can carry long prison sentences. But the easy availability of fraudulent documents frustrates investigators, as does a law that protects businesses as long as a worker's document "appears on its face to be genuine."
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0605/062105c1.htm
quote:
"Worksite enforcement was a low priority for INS and continues to be a low priority for ICE," Richard Stana, director of homeland security and justice issues at the Government Accountability Office, told a House Judiciary subcommittee. "The resources INS and ICE devoted to worksite enforcement have continued to decline."
For example, GAO found that between 1999 and 2003 -- the most recent year for which comparable data was available -- the percentage of "work years" ICE agents spent on worksite enforcement decreased from about 9 percent to about 4 percent. Additionally, the number of notices of intent to fine employers and the number of unauthorized workers arrested at worksites also declined. Between 1999 and 2004, the number of notices of intent to fine employers for improperly completing paperwork or knowingly hiring unauthorized workers decreased from 417 to three.
Too lazy to write my own personal opinion, but this one is pretty darned close...
http://appalachiangreens.blogspot.com/2006/07/illegal-immigrants.html
If you think people employing the illegals is bothersome, think about this:
The election board does not check out the applications very well. Anyone can fill out the paper and put anything they want on the form. They have to put the last 4 didgets of their SS# and then they are mailed a card to vote.
No one makes sure they are legal citizens to vote.
NOW you should be scared.
You are worried about the illegals working - that is the tip of the ice burg.
They can also vote and it looks legal. All they have to do is get a form to fill out and put 4 numbers down as the last 4 didgets of their SS#.
I doubt the numbers are ever checked and they are supposed to bring an ID the first time they vote - then they can vote any time without an ID.
We have very few resources to stop them from taking advantage of yet another freedom we pay dearly for while they steal it.