The University of Tulsa was again ranked as the best college in Oklahoma, placing respectable 88th on US News and World Reports ranking of national universities. OU was ranked 112. No other Oklahoma college placed in the top 124 schools.
Oklahoma should do better, but, compared to the states that border Oklahoma, two schools is not bad, not great, but not bad, as usual, we are mediocre.
Texas placed six schools, and with nearly ten times Oklahoma's population, that's really not good. Rice was 17th, UT was 47th, SMU placed 70th, Texas A&M was 60th, Baylor was 81st and TCU placed 105th.
Missouri had three schools (with twice the population) Washington University was ranked 12th , MU was tied with TU at 88th, MU-Rolla was 112th, tied with OU.
Slightly smaller populated Kansas had two, KU tied with MU and OU at 88th and Kansas State was 124th.
Colorado with a population just about like Oklahoma's three schools, CU at 77th , The University of Denver at 88th and CSU at 124th.
Louisiana had one school, Tulane at 44th
Arkansas and New Mexico placed zero schools.
Now, OSU needs to get more competitive and not just with mega sports facilities. The Big 12 is all over this report
Texas 47th
Texas A&M 60th
Colorado 77th
Iowa State 81st
Baylor 81st
Kansas 88th
Missouri 88th
Oklahoma 112th
Kansas State 124th
Texas Tech, Nebraska and OSU are the only ones not on the list, that's bad.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php
quote:
Originally posted by swake
The University of Tulsa was again ranked as the best college in Oklahoma, placing respectable 88th on US News and World Reports ranking of national universities. OU was ranked 112. No other Oklahoma college placed in the top 124 schools.
Oklahoma should do better, but, compared to the states that border Oklahoma, two schools is not bad, not great, but not bad, as usual, we are mediocre.
Texas placed six schools, and with nearly ten times Oklahoma's population, that's really not good. Rice was 17th, UT was 47th, SMU placed 70th, Texas A&M was 60th, Baylor was 81st and TCU placed 105th.
Missouri had three schools (with twice the population) Washington University was ranked 12th , MU was tied with TU at 88th, MU-Rolla was 112th, tied with OU.
Slightly smaller populated Kansas had two, KU tied with MU and OU at 88th and Kansas State was 124th.
Colorado with a population just about like Oklahoma's three schools, CU at 77th , The University of Denver at 88th and CSU at 124th.
Louisiana had one school, Tulane at 44th
Arkansas and New Mexico placed zero schools.
Now, OSU needs to get more competitive and not just with mega sports facilities. The Big 12 is all over this report
Texas 47th
Texas A&M 60th
Colorado 77th
Iowa State 81st
Baylor 81st
Kansas 88th
Missouri 88th
Oklahoma 112th
Kansas State 124th
Texas Tech, Nebraska and OSU are the only ones not on the list, that's bad.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php
98. Univ. of Nebraska—Lincoln
quote:
Originally posted by Oil Capital
quote:
Originally posted by swake
The University of Tulsa was again ranked as the best college in Oklahoma, placing respectable 88th on US News and World Reports ranking of national universities. OU was ranked 112. No other Oklahoma college placed in the top 124 schools.
Oklahoma should do better, but, compared to the states that border Oklahoma, two schools is not bad, not great, but not bad, as usual, we are mediocre.
Texas placed six schools, and with nearly ten times Oklahoma's population, that's really not good. Rice was 17th, UT was 47th, SMU placed 70th, Texas A&M was 60th, Baylor was 81st and TCU placed 105th.
Missouri had three schools (with twice the population) Washington University was ranked 12th , MU was tied with TU at 88th, MU-Rolla was 112th, tied with OU.
Slightly smaller populated Kansas had two, KU tied with MU and OU at 88th and Kansas State was 124th.
Colorado with a population just about like Oklahoma's three schools, CU at 77th , The University of Denver at 88th and CSU at 124th.
Louisiana had one school, Tulane at 44th
Arkansas and New Mexico placed zero schools.
Now, OSU needs to get more competitive and not just with mega sports facilities. The Big 12 is all over this report
Texas 47th
Texas A&M 60th
Colorado 77th
Iowa State 81st
Baylor 81st
Kansas 88th
Missouri 88th
Oklahoma 112th
Kansas State 124th
Texas Tech, Nebraska and OSU are the only ones not on the list, that's bad.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php
98. Univ. of Nebraska—Lincoln
Ah, missed that, thanks
So OSU is one of two big twelve schools not on the list, that's downright pathetic.
But, hey, they've got a nice new football stadium mostly done, a new hopefully sober basketball coach and and are building a huge new athletic village. How's the schoolin going? Who cares, ask coach Gundy how the team's gonna do this year!
I hate to say it, but OU has passed OSU is so many real ways, and is moving further away. Someone needs to find OSU a president like Boren is for OU. George Nigh? Pickens? Who could reinvent OSU?
OSU is fifty percent harder to spell than OU.
Swake, what was the criteria for the poll? IOW- what were the standards they were looking at, I mean tops at what and how did they quantify it?
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Swake, what was the criteria for the poll? IOW- what were the standards they were looking at, I mean tops at what and how did they quantify it?
Here are the criteria shown at the top of the page linked by Swake.
Peer assessment score
Average freshman retention rate
Faculty resources rank
% of classes w/50 or more
% faculty who are full time
SAT/ACT 25th-75th percentile
Acceptance rate
Graduation & retention rank
2005 predicted graduation rate
2005 Actual graduation rate
2005 overperf.(+)/ underperf.(-)
% of classes w/fewer than 20
Student/ faculty ratio
Selectivity rank
Freshmen in top 10% of HS class
Financial resources rank
Alumni giving rank
Avg. alumni
Great job TU. I am really glad that TU is moving up in ranks.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
QuoteOriginally posted by Oil Capital
QuoteOriginally posted by swake
Someone needs to find OSU a president like Boren is for OU. George Nigh? Pickens? Who could reinvent OSU?
Yeah, someone like Boren. Someone who can fudge the numbers just to crack into a certain tier on a list that doesn't mean a damn thing.
What makes that list any better than this one?
Washington Monthly (//%22http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html%22)
Answer: Nothing. They are both worthless.
quote:
Originally posted by tj88
quote:
Originally posted by swake
QuoteOriginally posted by Oil Capital
QuoteOriginally posted by swake
Someone needs to find OSU a president like Boren is for OU. George Nigh? Pickens? Who could reinvent OSU?
Yeah, someone like Boren. Someone who can fudge the numbers just to crack into a certain tier on a list that doesn't mean a damn thing.
What makes that list any better than this one?
Washington Monthly (//%22http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html%22)
Answer: Nothing. They are both worthless.
rankings are rankings... statistics are statistics... the devil is always in the methodology... one must be careful about how they interpret the data...
however, to imply that boren has skewed numbers to get ou to out rank osu sounds like sour grapes...
Props to my alma mater TU
A&M, are you effing kidding me?
TU is definitely moving up, not just academically but also in athletics and overall facilities. A Top 100 national university in midtown Tulsa is a wonderful asset for sure.
OU will always be the "flagship" university in the state. OU has certain programs that are better than OSU and vice versa. OSU should really prioritize creating a large and respected OSU-Tulsa that is more independent of its neighbor in Stillwater. It would be great to see OU-Tulsa expanded as well so Tulsa could be home to two public and two private universities, possibly with as many as 40,000 students combined in the next 20 years. Tulsa...college town?
It's late, and I might be missing something...but from reading the first post on this thread, I see that TU, KU and Missouri are all ranked 88th.
Am I missing something? Or is there a 3-way tie for 88th place? In which case, TU wins hands down b/c I doubt there are many opportunities at KU or MU where freshmen get to enjoy being taught by PhD's with a class size of 10-20 students.
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
It's late, and I might be missing something...but from reading the first post on this thread, I see that TU, KU and Missouri are all ranked 88th.
Am I missing something? Or is there a 3-way tie for 88th place? In which case, TU wins hands down b/c I doubt there are many opportunities at KU or MU where freshmen get to enjoy being taught by PhD's with a class size of 10-20 students.
What you are missing is that the student/faculty ratio and the percent of faculty that is full-time are both already factors in the rankings, as are the % of classes smaller than 20, and faculty resources rank.
Oklahoma State ranked 86th on Washinton Monthly college rankings...
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html
quote:
Originally posted by okiebybirth
Oklahoma State ranked 86th on Washinton Monthly college rankings...
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html
Even the person that posted this thread originally...SHOULD know how insignificant these rankings are.
The Peterson Guides, probably the most in depth and respected rating system for colleges and universities, have OU, OSU, and TU all around 130 to 135 in National Research Univerities. Every single year.
OSU is not "behind" either one of these schools. And there isn't an "impressive" school in the state.
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
It's late, and I might be missing something...but from reading the first post on this thread, I see that TU, KU and Missouri are all ranked 88th.
Am I missing something? Or is there a 3-way tie for 88th place? In which case, TU wins hands down b/c I doubt there are many opportunities at KU or MU where freshmen get to enjoy being taught by PhD's with a class size of 10-20 students.
I recall an article about 15 years ago referring to TU as the "Harvard of the midwest".
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
I recall an article about 15 years ago referring to TU as the "Harvard of the midwest".
They lied.
Do you recall the USAToday article about 3 years ago claiming Oklahoma Christian U number 1 in the US in "Four Year Comprehensive Schools"? Or the NYTimes article about 10 or so years ago claiming Okie State had the number 1 business school in the US (just ahead of Columbia)?
These rankings are utterly worthless.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by okiebybirth
Oklahoma State ranked 86th on Washinton Monthly college rankings...
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html
Even the person that posted this thread originally...SHOULD know how insignificant these rankings are.
The Peterson Guides, probably the most in depth and respected rating system for colleges and universities, have OU, OSU, and TU all around 130 to 135 in National Research Univerities. Every single year.
OSU is not "behind" either one of these schools. And there isn't an "impressive" school in the state.
Here is a "scapel" taken to those rankings...
http://www.stats.org/stories/college_rank_Monthly_aug28_06.htm
I don't think anyone should put much significance behind these rankings, but it sure does get people bragging and boasting while others get rankled... [:D]
I think for a private school as great as TU to be ranked with Kansas and Missouri, even Oklahoma, public schools... is just plain insulting. TU is often hailed as the best value in the South, I don't hear that about KU or MU for their respective geographic areas.
And everyone knows that you can get a much finer education at Baylor than any of the Texas schools. I think that this ranking took into account tuition, and is thus about value or cost over education, and thus simply worthless. There is no way you can tell me that going to a smaller private college is not worth higher tuition.
Texas A&M must have ranked highly thus because of all the free rides they give: all Eagle scouts in the nation are offered a free ride at A&M, plus all of their ROTC students (which I think both are great, but still not a reason for which A&M is better than OU or MU or some other of the 'finer public schools').
quote:
Originally posted by SoonerRiceGrad
... I don't hear that about KU...
then you are not paying attention... historically KU has had one of the strongest academic programs in the big 12 and the region...
I really am not. Here's a real big confession: Who really cares about KU?
quote:
Originally posted by SoonerRiceGrad
I really am not. Here's a real big confession: Who really cares about KU?
who cares? you apparently do, you listed it as if it were some second rate university...
if i'm mistaken, please forgive me...
but are you not the self-proclaimed "psychiatrist" who was outed as a liar over a year ago?
let's go to the archives...
there it is... 9th post down, it all falls apart...
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=589&whichpage=2
i'll give you credit, you stuck around without a name change, which is more than most would do...
yeah, i get a little pissy when a charlatan starts casting collegiate aspersions...
/god bless the archives
All I know is that President Bush spoke at OSU's graduation, so at least the smart people know that OSU is a good college.
quote:
Originally posted by Cubs
All I know is that President Bush spoke at OSU's graduation, so at least the smart people know that OSU is a good college.
Who poked you with a stick? Look up non-sequitor.
quote:
Originally posted by SoonerRiceGrad
I think for a private school as great as TU to be ranked with Kansas and Missouri, even Oklahoma, public schools... is just plain insulting. TU is often hailed as the best value in the South, I don't hear that about KU or MU for their respective geographic areas.
And everyone knows that you can get a much finer education at Baylor than any of the Texas schools. I think that this ranking took into account tuition, and is thus about value or cost over education, and thus simply worthless. There is no way you can tell me that going to a smaller private college is not worth higher tuition.
Texas A&M must have ranked highly thus because of all the free rides they give: all Eagle scouts in the nation are offered a free ride at A&M, plus all of their ROTC students (which I think both are great, but still not a reason for which A&M is better than OU or MU or some other of the 'finer public schools').
What a bunch of BS. I don't know whether this guy is as dumb as he sounds but he is full of it.
I graduated from TU with a BS and MS in engineering and joined a large oil company in TX shortly thereafter. I was thrown in with many engineers from Texas A&M as well as U of Tx, Rice and others from various parts of the country (MIT, U of Michigan, UCLA etc). I can tell you from experience that for a while I was playing big time catch up. TU's programs (at least in Chemical Eng) were seriously out of date. I can also tell you that the graduates from Texas A&M were very well trained and on a par with those anywhere and better than most.
The jerk that posted this note knows nothing and shows it. I know a lot of Rice graduates and he does not seem like one to me.
quote:
Originally posted by troostman
I don't know whether this guy is as dumb as he sounds but he is full of it.
Yes on both counts. We just stopped saying it out loud.
Friday, September 22, 2006
Researcher Proposes Basing College Rankings on Different Criteria
By ERIC HOOVER
Colleges and universities have the raw materials with which to build a better rankings system, but many institutions do not want to abandon the current model. As a result, commercial guides to colleges continue to thrive, even though they provide little useful information to students.
So concludes a new report on college rankings scheduled to be released today by Education Sector, a nonprofit research group based in Washington. The report, "College Rankings Reformed: The Case for a New Order in Higher Education," calls for a more sophisticated way of measuring how well colleges educate their students. The system would emphasize the quality of teaching and would put institutions' graduation rates in context, assessing not only what students learned in college but also their success after earning their degrees.
The "student based" rankings would provide prospective college applicants with better measures of quality than those that U.S. News & World Report uses to compile its annual college guide, which rewards institutions for their "fame, wealth, and exclusivity," says Kevin Carey, research and policy manager at Education Sector, who wrote the report.
He believes that his system would also create more incentives for colleges to improve undergraduate instruction and would reward institutions that succeeded in doing so.
In his report, which is to be posted today on the Education Sector Web site, Mr. Carey argues that several recent trends give colleges the information they need to quantify the seemingly unquantifiable in terms of learning and postcollege success. One such factor is the growing popularity of the National Survey of Student Engagement, which provides data on the quality of teaching and learning at some 1,100 participating colleges in the United States and Canada.
That survey, known as Nessie, has the potential to provide the framework for a more meaningful rankings system, one that would better reflect the achievements of colleges instead of confirming their reputations, says Mr. Carey.
A Different Scale
Consider Miles College, in Alabama, and Jackson State University, in Mississippi. Both of those historically black institutions score low in the U.S. News rankings, in part because they serve many financially needy students, who score lower on standardized tests than their more privileged peers do, and because the two institutions spend relatively little on each student.
In the Nessie survey, however, Mr. Carey found that both Miles and Jackson State scored well above the national average in several key categories, including those that measure the frequency of outside-the-classroom discussions of course work among students and professors, and the promptness of feedback that students receive from instructors.
"Conventional measures," his report says, "rank Miles and Jackson State below par; Nessie tells exactly the opposite story."
Mr. Carey proposes basing one-fifth of a college's ranking on its quality of teaching, as measured by its score in Nessie's five main categories: academic rigor, the prevalence of "active and collaborative learning," the quality of interaction among students and faculty members, opportunities for enriching educational experiences, and the supportiveness of the campus environment.
The other components of Mr. Carey's theoretical rankings are:
* Learning. This measure is based, in part, on the results of the Collegiate Learning Assessment, which hundreds of colleges use to test students on their ability to write long essays, analyze documents, and assess arguments. The test, which compares the scores of freshmen with those of seniors, measures how well students develop their analytical skills in college. (By contrast, existing rankings rate colleges according to the standardized-test scores of incoming freshmen.) Other components of this ranking include the results of outcome-based accreditation processes and of "culminating projects" that reveal students' mastery of a given subject.
* Retention and graduation. Mr. Carey proposes ranking institutions according to the difference between their actual retention and graduation rates and their statistically predicted graduation rates, so as not to penalize institutions that enroll large numbers of needy and first-generation college students, or students from underperforming high schools.
* Life after college. Instead of measuring alumni-donation rates, as U.S. News does, Mr. Carey proposes measuring the success of students who go on to postgraduate education; the financial earnings of a college's graduates in a particular field compared with typical earnings in that field; the percentage of students who get jobs in their field of study and pass professional-licensure examinations; and the satisfaction of alumni as revealed by studies like the Collegiate Results Survey, which asks graduates a range of questions about their occupations, job skills, physical fitness, and civic engagement, among other things.
As Mr. Carey concedes, one hitch in discussing alternative ways of evaluating colleges is that many institutions have refused to publicize data from Nessie, the Collegiate Learning Assessment, and alumni surveys. And higher education as a whole has resisted rankings-based accountability, which would require every college to reveal specific information about itself. Given that, he believes that an educationally sound way of measuring college quality is not possible unless the federal government were to create a vast, centralized rankings system -- like the controversial proposed "unit record" data system -- through legislative action.
"The biggest obstacle to liberating higher education from the tyranny of the flawed U.S. News system is higher education itself," Mr. Carey wrote in his report. "Some objections are grounded in reasonable but addressable concerns about the accuracy of information. Others go deeper, reflecting both a strong desire for autonomy and a basic instinct to preserve the status quo."
From Bruno's earlier post:
"rankings are rankings... statistics are statistics... the devil is always in the methodology... one must be careful about how they interpret the data...
however, to imply that boren has skewed numbers to get ou to out rank osu sounds like sour grapes...
FIX OSU-Tulsa NOW!!
Make OSU-Tulsa a real 4 year state university.
That is the key to Tulsa and downtown's future.
And, I hate OSU...
But, It really is that simple.
The best damn "magic bullet" we could ever hope for.
"it costs a fortune to look this trashy"
http://www.stopabductions.com/"
I could not agree more
quote:
Originally posted by jne
From Bruno's earlier post:
"rankings are rankings... statistics are statistics... the devil is always in the methodology... one must be careful about how they interpret the data...
however, to imply that boren has skewed numbers to get ou to out rank osu sounds like sour grapes...
FIX OSU-Tulsa NOW!!
Make OSU-Tulsa a real 4 year state university.
That is the key to Tulsa and downtown's future.
And, I hate OSU...
But, It really is that simple.
The best damn "magic bullet" we could ever hope for.
"it costs a fortune to look this trashy"
http://www.stopabductions.com/"
I could not agree more
It's TCC and Langston that are blocking OSU-Tulsa (and OU-Tulsa) from offering lower level classes. Langston has done nothing with the money given them for a Tulsa campus, so they should be out, Tulsa gave them a shot and they have done nothing, so get out.
TCC is the bigger problem here. That school really upsets me because they are so much a big part of the leveling of the southern end of downtown for ugly treeless parking. It's time TCC, which has been funded by Tulsa over and over, does what is best for Tulsa and not what is best for TCC.
Kathy Taylor and Tulsa's state legislators, this is a call to you. It's time to call out these special interests (TCC and LU) that claim to want to serve Tulsa but really are hurting the city and the state by protecting themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by okiebybirth
Oklahoma State ranked 86th on Washinton Monthly college rankings...
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html
So OU is not even in the top 120, that's downright pathetic.
But, hey, they've got a good football coach, a president that will hold 3 press conferences if they have a bad call in a football game. How's the schoolin going? Who cares, ask Boren how the team's gonna do this year!
I hate to say it, but OSU has passed OU in so many real ways, and is moving further away. Someone needs to find OU a president like Dr. David J. Schmidly is for OSU. George Nigh? Switzer? Who could reinvent OU?
But seriously, The Student Guide to America's 100 Best College Buys named Oklahoma State as America's Best College Buy less than 10yrs ago. The Math Department has been recognized by the American Mathematics Association as one of four innovative programs in the nation and has produced five Sloan Fellows, which is equal to that of MIT. The U.S. National Security Agency has chosen OSU as its newest National Center of Academic Excellence for Information Assurance Education. OSU's architecture students have won more national and international competitions than any school in the nation except the University of Illinois. OSU chemical engineering students won first-place for the third time in the 10-year history of the American Institute of Chemical Engineers' National Team Plant Design Competition. Their MBA program has been ranked among the best in the nation also (on a value added scale). One could go on and on...
Point being OSU is not having academic problems.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by jne
From Bruno's earlier post:
"rankings are rankings... statistics are statistics... the devil is always in the methodology... one must be careful about how they interpret the data...
however, to imply that boren has skewed numbers to get ou to out rank osu sounds like sour grapes...
FIX OSU-Tulsa NOW!!
Make OSU-Tulsa a real 4 year state university.
That is the key to Tulsa and downtown's future.
And, I hate OSU...
But, It really is that simple.
The best damn "magic bullet" we could ever hope for.
"it costs a fortune to look this trashy"
http://www.stopabductions.com/"
I could not agree more
It's TCC and Langston that are blocking OSU-Tulsa (and OU-Tulsa) from offering lower level classes. Langston has done nothing with the money given them for a Tulsa campus, so they should be out, Tulsa gave them a shot and they have done nothing, so get out.
TCC is the bigger problem here. That school really upsets me because they are so much a big part of the leveling of the southern end of downtown for ugly treeless parking. It's time TCC, which has been funded by Tulsa over and over, does what is best for Tulsa and not what is best for TCC.
Kathy Taylor and Tulsa's state legislators, this is a call to you. It's time to call out these special interests (TCC and LU) that claim to want to serve Tulsa but really are hurting the city and the state by protecting themselves.
I dont mind TCC being the college that offers the first 2 years and OSU and others offering masters and phd programs. TCC has many convenient campuses and the one downtown is very close to OSU Tulsa. Would rather have TCC offering the first 2 years only and not trying to add graduate programs or having a messy free for all with both OSU and TCC trying to offer everything. I think the arrangement works quite well. Let OSU Tulsa and others be the 4 year and up university and TCC the 2 year.
quote:
I dont mind TCC being the college that offers the first 2 years and OSU and others offering masters and phd programs. TCC has many convenient campuses and the one downtown is very close to OSU Tulsa. Would rather have TCC offering the first 2 years only and not trying to add graduate programs or having a messy free for all with both OSU and TCC trying to offer everything. I think the arrangement works quite well. Let OSU Tulsa and others be the 4 year and up university and TCC the 2 year.
I agree totally. In fact OSU-Tulsa and TCC have already started a dual admission program. On the OSU-Tulsa website (http://www.osu-tulsa.okstate.edu/tcc/) it says:
Tulsa Community College and Oklahoma State University are working together to bring greater educational opportunities to college students. The TCC/OSU Dual Admission Program is a unique partnership and the first of its kind in Oklahoma.
High School and transfer students can submit one application for admission to any of the TCC campuses and the OSU campuses in Tulsa and Stillwater. Once you're admitted to the TCC/OSU Dual Admission Program, you are a student at both TCC and OSU. With a four-year plan in place, you'll know on your first day of class at TCC that you will graduate an OSU Cowboy. In essence we already have a 4-year state university in Tulsa. What we need now are dormitories and other amenities to make it a
residential university.
And as far as the rankings go, there's no doubt you can get a fine education at TU, OU and OSU, so why be concerned about what these various sources say (particularly when they all disagree so wildly)?
I agree--the problem is not whether one can get a 4 year degree here, which they can, but whether the city offers that "whole college experience"--dorm life, bars, fraternities ([xx(]), etc.... Young people stay in college towns because the aren't ready to grow up; they associate college towns with the carefree college life. Create a true "campus" downtown, either near TCC or OSU, with residence, quads, etc...., and you will have businesses spring up that cater to those college students. And you will have young people wanting to stay in Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
I agree--the problem is not whether one can get a 4 year degree here, which they can, but whether the city offers that "whole college experience"--dorm life, bars, fraternities ([xx(]), etc.... Young people stay in college towns because the aren't ready to grow up; they associate college towns with the carefree college life. Create a true "campus" downtown, either near TCC or OSU, with residence, quads, etc...., and you will have businesses spring up that cater to those college students. And you will have young people wanting to stay in Tulsa.
I would have to agree.
I think OSU Tulsa needs to have the whole experience otherwise it could become a university local kids go to who can't afford/ don't have the grades to go out of town. I don't think for example Rogers State has helped Claremore or Panhandle helped Goodwell become anything like Stillwater or because it is full of local kids who live at home and drive in.
I hope the campus becomes more urban and built up too. I went to university in a truly urban campus of 8,600 students studying in the equivalent space of a Tulsa city block. It can be done at a real density that creates a real bustle. Or the campus can spread out over an area of downtown and intermingle with existing businesses, residences and offices and become a real part of the urban fabric rather than its own quarter.
Many people I knew when I finished high school went off to live on college campuses, then dropped out (partied too much or didn't study hard enough) and ended up coming back and going to TCC lol. On top of that many people started at TCC because it was convenient and cheap, got their bearings, then went to have the "real college experience" afterwards.
That real college experience can easily start after the first 2 years of TCC as it has for many. I do hope that OSU Tulsa grows to be a full fledged campus with dorms and the like for those people who want that experience. This would bring a lot of life to downtown and offer more of an attraction for living in Tulsa.
My concern with OSU Tulsa at present is its limited offering of graduate, Masters, and PHD programs. Those are the programs that are needed to attract the kind of people that we want to move to Tulsa. An associates degree or Bachelors are just minor degrees and can be had anywhere. Its the upper level degrees where a person needs to be in college for 4 to 8 years after a bachelors, that will keep those "creative class", upwardly mobile, information worker, types in our city and enable them to move to our city.
All of the mid 20s to 30s aged people I know of who would like to move to Tulsa are in those upper level course programs. Those that I know of who have had to leave Tulsa because of educational concerns, dont have much problems with finding the lower level courses anymore, though they are still limited, but do have to leave to get the upper level ones. Not to mention OSU, TU, ORU, simply don't offer a full range of upper level degree programs.
We have a great start going. We just need to flesh out the upper level programs and create that real college environment at OSU Tulsa.
Having dorms where OSU Tulsa has planned for them to be, will be great for students not only taking mid and upper level classes at OSU but could also be great for classes at TCC downtown with a quick commute or bikeride. Some TCC classes could even be taught on the OSU Tulsa campus. Even after TCC that still leaves 4-8 years of college life at OSU Tulsa.
I wonder what the long range plan is for OSU Tulsa and when they do plan to have dorms on the OSU Tulsa campus? They already have bought the property expressly for this purpose. Its just what stage and time it will happen? What has to happen before they get to this point? Is there anything that the city can do to help things along?
I'd like to see their master plan, anyone know where it can be found? There is a small rendering that looks pretty interesting on their website, but that's all I could find. I do hope the "dorms" they have planned are at an urban scale i.e. up against streets with sidewalks and landscaping, mixed-use, and walking distance to classes at the OSU-Tulsa campus. What is going up currently at OSU-Stillwater, the suite-style student apartments, are NOT what is needed downtown.
The areas just west of Cincinnati north of I-244 would be a good place to begin. Also the dilapidated apartments north of the campus on the hill, and that highrise govt. housing project, could be bought by OSU, torn down (the apartments) or renovated (the tower) and that could be a student housing area as well. Keep all new academic buildings in and around the current campus, taking away those massive parking lots and building green spaces and parking garages.
Connecting the campus to downtown through corridors like Cincinnati, Detroit, Elgin, and especially Greenwood will be important as the university grows. I could see college-oriented businesses line up along Elgin and Greenwood leading into the campus. The area where Detroit, Cincinnati, and John Hope Franklin meet just to the east of the Helmerich research center could become a nice public area with housing, academic buildings, and a green space; the true heart of the urban campus with academic buildings to the east and student housing to the north and west, and the Brady District just to the south.
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Originally posted by TheArtist
Many people I knew when I finished high school went off to live on college campuses, then dropped out (partied too much or didn't study hard enough) and ended up coming back and going to TCC lol. On top of that many people started at TCC because it was convenient and cheap, got their bearings, then went to have the "real college experience" afterwards.
That real college experience can easily start after the first 2 years of TCC as it has for many. I do hope that OSU Tulsa grows to be a full fledged campus with dorms and the like for those people who want that experience. This would bring a lot of life to downtown and offer more of an attraction for living in Tulsa.
My concern with OSU Tulsa at present is its limited offering of graduate, Masters, and PHD programs. Those are the programs that are needed to attract the kind of people that we want to move to Tulsa. An associates degree or Bachelors are just minor degrees and can be had anywhere. Its the upper level degrees where a person needs to be in college for 4 to 8 years after a bachelors, that will keep those "creative class", upwardly mobile, information worker, types in our city and enable them to move to our city.
All of the mid 20s to 30s aged people I know of who would like to move to Tulsa are in those upper level course programs. Those that I know of who have had to leave Tulsa because of educational concerns, dont have much problems with finding the lower level courses anymore, though they are still limited, but do have to leave to get the upper level ones. Not to mention OSU, TU, ORU, simply don't offer a full range of upper level degree programs.
We have a great start going. We just need to flesh out the upper level programs and create that real college environment at OSU Tulsa.
Having dorms where OSU Tulsa has planned for them to be, will be great for students not only taking mid and upper level classes at OSU but could also be great for classes at TCC downtown with a quick commute or bikeride. Some TCC classes could even be taught on the OSU Tulsa campus. Even after TCC that still leaves 4-8 years of college life at OSU Tulsa.
I wonder what the long range plan is for OSU Tulsa and when they do plan to have dorms on the OSU Tulsa campus? They already have bought the property expressly for this purpose. Its just what stage and time it will happen? What has to happen before they get to this point? Is there anything that the city can do to help things along?
We are definitely on the same page here. I have no problem with TCC doing triage of the early undergrads and taking care of 2 year occupational training. TCC is doing good things for the community - bringing further education to a lot of folks who wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity and training necessary pieces of our workforce. They have HS and OSU dual enrollment also expanding from their current progragram to focus on workforce shortages like nursing.
I think OSU and TCC can still work together here. I worry that Stillwater may be dragging its feet on OSU-Tulsa. Wherever the barriers, I think its time Tulsa took some responsability for pushing things forward.
OSU-Tulsa has the opportunity to be the Urban college community for Oklahoma. They need to expand on the 4 year degree programs to help build the college community and expand GRADUATE ED. so people will stay here, become well educated, and push Tulsa forward. Everybody can be a winner with this one.
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Having dorms where OSU Tulsa has planned for them to be, will be great for students not only taking mid and upper level classes at OSU but could also be great for classes at TCC downtown with a quick commute or bikeride.
I think having dorms is a great idea, but I do not really think most graduate students live in on-campus student housing. At least not in my experience with grad students during my undergrad days, nor from my personal experience in grad school. Everyone I knew (including myself) lived off-campus in apartments or rental houses. In fact, I think a lot of campuses restrict dorms to undergraduates, maybe with the exception of international students. Maybe some loft style urban apartments for graduate students would be more appropriate. They would fit right into that area.
To see what we should strive for OSU-Tulsa to become, check out Portland State University (//%22http://www.pdx.edu/%22). PSU is a public 4 year university on the south end of downtown Portland, Oregon. This is an urban campus but also has areas of green space, midrise student housing, and athletic facilities. Something like Portland State or UW-Milwaukee (//%22http://www.uwm.edu/%22) would be good models to follow.
Also, I think OSU-Tulsa should be an independent entity. Right now it's too closely tied to the Stillwater campus, that should change. Maybe even drop the orange logo colors and banners around campus and replace them with another color or different logo, maybe green or yellow?
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Originally posted by SXSW
To see what we should strive for OSU-Tulsa to become, check out Portland State University (//%22http://www.pdx.edu/%22). PSU is a public 4 year university on the south end of downtown Portland, Oregon. This is an urban campus but also has areas of green space, midrise student housing, and athletic facilities. Something like Portland State or UW-Milwaukee (//%22http://www.uwm.edu/%22) would be good models to follow.
i think there isn't a need for the athletic facilities to be so close in. If its really urban, which is what we should be aiming, it should be further out. Maybe linked with a shuttle bus to the central campus.
Do a quick comparison of the programs offered at Portland and OSU Tulsa, that will give you an idea of what OSU Tulsa really needs. Housing and such wont hurt of course, but actually having classes and graduate programs to take wouldnt hurt either.[;)]