At one time, I heard alot about the statue titled The American that is supposed to be just west of Downtown Tulsa. I haven't much on it, lately. What's the latest?
quote:
Originally posted by T-TownMike
At one time, I heard alot about the statue titled The American that is supposed to be just west of Downtown Tulsa. I haven't much on it, lately. What's the latest?
they had hoped to do groundbreaking by the end of this year, that obviously isnt going to happen. Last I heard, they were still looking for some funding. Surely a local company like BOk, Quiktrip, or the Kaiser family could pitch in a few hundered thousand each to finish the funding. Either way, I would expect to hear some news sometime in Feb or March.
For more info check out:
http://www.theamerican.com/home/index.cfm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by T-TownMike
At one time, I heard alot about the statue titled The American that is supposed to be just west of Downtown Tulsa. I haven't much on it, lately. What's the latest?
they had hoped to do groundbreaking by the end of this year, that obviously isnt going to happen. Last I heard, they were still looking for some funding. Surely a local company like BOk, Quiktrip, or the Kaiser family could pitch in a few hundered thousand each to finish the funding. Either way, I would expect to hear some news sometime in Feb or March.
For more info check out:
http://www.theamerican.com/home/index.cfm
Ok... one more time for the newbie.... The "powers" behind the American aren't accepting anything short of 1/2 million...
For that 1/2 million you receive
"Ownership" of one share of stock....
You may sell said share of stock later at a profit or loss.
Ask yourself this.........
Why are the "Tribes" not all over this if it is such an equitable idea..?
This
crappy Goliath statue makes me want to hurl just from the possibility that it
may be constructed..
On a lighter note.... stick around and The Artist will pull out the pics of "The Godess of Oil" statue he wants to bring to fruition...
Maybe the
heap big Indian and the
Tiny Dancer of Oil can hook up and we will have oily dancing Indians....
Pretty sure I saw a bronze toenail when I drove by the other day.
I called a while back, must have been a different thread... but I called and asked.
They are having trouble with the financing still. Even as they bring in more money the cost of construction keeps going up (metals mostly) so they are kind of treading water. They hoped to break ground in the spring, but did not sound optimistic.
This all according to the representative listed on their website.
- - -
I for one hope it comes in. If nothing else, it IS interesting. They built a tower in Piza that was crap from day 1 - but people still flock to see it. Not saying it will be super tourist attraction, but still...
I wish they would take less money. But to keep within the "closely held" regulations and avoid Sarbanes and other legislation they have to keep it under a certain limit (which escapes me at the moment, 50?). Thus, the high by in amount.
- - -
And per Williams Statue, put me on the donations list for that one. Seriously, if you want to get the ball rolling I would do what I could to help.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I called a while back, must have been a different thread... but I called and asked.
They are having trouble with the financing still. Even as they bring in more money the cost of construction keeps going up (metals mostly) so they are kind of treading water. They hoped to break ground in the spring, but did not sound optimistic.
This all according to the representative listed on their website.
- - -
I for one hope it comes in. If nothing else, it IS interesting. They built a tower in Piza that was crap from day 1 - but people still flock to see it. Not saying it will be super tourist attraction, but still...
I wish they would take less money. But to keep within the "closely held" regulations and avoid Sarbanes and other legislation they have to keep it under a certain limit (which escapes me at the moment, 50?). Thus, the high by in amount.
- - -
And per Williams Statue, put me on the donations list for that one. Seriously, if you want to get the ball rolling I would do what I could to help.
While I respect your opinion regarding the statue, needless to say, it would be a most horrid site for the developers trying to build in the area.
i.e.
http://www.terraverdeok.com
http://www.capitalhomes.com/docs/community_details.asp?Community_ID=784
etc.
It would be most unpleasant to look out your window and see the shadow of an Indians loin cloth or something else....
Take a drive up the Tisdale and just look at all the beautiful undeveloped land.
Hmmm, that makes some sense to me but I was unable to honestly answer the question as for myself:
Would it matter to me if I could see a giant Indian statue nearby?
I'm just not sure that it would. I could see WHY it would, just kind of strange. Guess I'd have to see the statute.
But again, fair point. Though, I guess that is the gist of the free enterprise system. I'm not very happy about the Payday loan going in down the street but all I can really do is ensure it gets no business from me.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Hmmm, that makes some sense to me but I was unable to honestly answer the question as for myself:
Would it matter to me if I could see a giant Indian statue nearby?
I'm just not sure that it would. I could see WHY it would, just kind of strange. Guess I'd have to see the statute.
But again, fair point. Though, I guess that is the gist of the free enterprise system. I'm not very happy about the Payday loan going in down the street but all I can really do is ensure it gets no business from me.
I'm still hoping they will put a coin slot at the base of the statue so I can drop a quarter in and it will yell out "INUK-CHUK!"
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
I'm still hoping they will put a coin slot at the base of the statue so I can drop a quarter in and it will yell out "INUK-CHUK!"
Now THAT statue would attract people for miles..
(http://members.aol.com/SprFriends/apachechief2.jpg)
I think that this project will never get off the ground. It is dead in the water.
^
I hope they build the thing right in Bill LaFortuna's front yard.
i hope this project dies
quote:
Originally posted by hoodlum
i hope this project dies
Why would you hope it dies? Little public money involved, no tear downs, not significant surface parking. I can understand resolute apathy, but hostility seems odd.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by hoodlum
i hope this project dies
Why would you hope it dies? Little public money involved, no tear downs, not significant surface parking. I can understand resolute apathy, but hostility seems odd.
maybe because the statue is stereotypical, exploitive, and carries no representation of the civilized tribes that settled here?
not really hostility I just thought it was a little tacky to begin with
Big time tacky. Why the hell does everything in Oklahoma have to be tied to Indians?
quote:
Originally posted by hoodlum
not really hostility I just thought it was a little tacky to begin with
oh yes, I forgot tacky, but I thought that was obvious.
INUK-CHUK!
quote:
Originally posted by breitee
Big time tacky. Why the hell does everything in Oklahoma have to be tied to Indians?
well, when you take away cowboys and indians what is left to characterize oklahoma? Oh wait I know! The scissortailed flycatcher!
wait, now I've got it! We can have the eagle on the indian have a scissortailed flycatcher clutched in its talons and we'll have an indian blanket flower tucked behind the indian's ear!
somehow we have to figure out how to work in some frito pie or chicken fried steak.
It is strange a lot of things in Red Man's Land, formerly Indian Territory, that is home to more recognized tribes than anywhere else and among the most in Native population... are related to Native Americans. [B)]
I understand if you think it is tacky. But I think 40 foot tall bronze praying hands are tacky too, but I don't care if they are built and displayed. But, I mistook your post for hostility so I digress.
I agree that the hands are tacky/ a little kitsch. But they don't loom over downtown like the American would. I am all for sculpture just not the American, and not within sight of downtown.
It is a tough call because it all comes down to personal taste. i like the golden driller because due to its history it has become an icon for Tulsa.
Maybe we can take all the big scultputres and put them in a "Large scale" sculpture park.
The golden driller, the hands, the american, the indian at big cabin, the large tooth on peoria, the buffalo on 1-44 near sapulpa, the blue whale, the volkswagen spider on sheridan, any others?
quote:
Originally posted by hoodlum
Maybe we can take all the big scultputres and put them in a "Large scale" sculpture park.
The golden driller, the hands, the american, the indian at big cabin, the large tooth on peoria, the buffalo on 1-44 near sapulpa, the blue whale, the volkswagen spider on sheridan, any others?
how depressing, Tulsa is known for oversized "yard art".
All the penguins around town.
I wouldn't mind a huge indian statue per say. But I agree this one in particular is very poorly designed. If your going to do a statue that your intending to be proud of, it should be a quality work of art. Its as if we have allowed an amateur to design something thats supposed to be eternal, monumental, and important. You just dont do that. There really is a difference between quality art and garbage. Have you ever been to those large gas stations that have gift stores on the turnpike? They often have kischy little sculptures, cowboys, indians, unicorns, made of plastic or rainbow shimmery ceramic? A lot of "folk" like that stuff and really think its art. Along with Yanni and John Tesh music and Thomas Kinkade paintings. You get the image of the type of person I am talking about. This sculpture is on that same level design wise and in sophistication. Its not good art by any stretch of the imagination.
1. If your going to make a realistic figure, one thats not stylized, make the musculature accurate. Whenever you move, shift your weight to one side or another, lift an arm, certain muscles are more tensed or relaxed. Every movement or position, no matter how slight, affects the tension and posture of the whole body. This sculpture is a complete mess. Any artist or person who appreciates art, anywhere in the world will glance at this sculpture and think... "you have got to be joking". The average Oklahoman may not know the difference, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do something of quality, we don't need to do something we are saying is good but it be a laughing stock to the rest of the world. Us saying it is good, and it not be, will only serve to make us look more "hick" than we already are.
2. The over all positioning is so obvously posed to the point that it looks silly. It doesn't even make any sense. "One wonders if he ever had any proper anatomy classes" One leg is straight, the foot flat on the ground, the knee with the rectus femoris, vastus medialis, etc. obviously tensed ,,, the other has the heel up on a rock, the front of the foot flat on the ground. If you were standing anywhere, would you stand like that? It feels completely uncomfortable and unnatural. Try it. Nobody would be out in a field, on a hillside, wherever, and stand with your heel on a rock like that. Especially considering the rest of the sculpture and what is going on. "The thing is, as an artist I know why he did it, it looks more interesting, gives more drama to have the knee up, than having both legs straight. However, his solution to achieving that was akward. The whole foot should have been up on something if he wanted the knee that high, not just the heel and putting the foot in such a strange looking situation. Though it may have cost more to have gone with a different solution."
3. Though some parts of the body are tensed, the one part of the body that would most obviously be tensed is not, quite the opposite actually. That being the hand and arm on which a huge eagle is about to land. The arm looks, languidly stuck out there with the hand and pointer finger limply held as if a tiny butterfly is about to alight on his finger. Thats a huge bald eagle there not a gnat! The arm would be tense and the hand likely in a fist. And heck I would be looking in that direction too or slightly flinching away, not seemingly, not noticing and daydreaming off towards the opposite direction. Its like there is no acknowledgment or interaction between the indian and the eagle whatsoever. Why is that? Perhaps the artist wasn't paying attention to the "whole" of the sculpture and what the whole thing was saying. Each part may be ok, but the whole doesn't work as a cohesive piece. I just can't quite figure out what he is trying to say with this thing? Whats the story? Whats going on? When you stand in a certain way, your saying something. There is so much going on here that doesn't "jive" or make sense. All it really says is, "Bunch of poor, stupid, Okies trying to do something and failing miserably. What a laugh they don't know any better."
What I want to know is how the Native tribes stand on this. Do most tribes feel that this statue is representative of their culture, or is it just a purveyor of more stereotypes?
If I'm correct, the proposed location for this statue is in Osage County. On maps, I often see all of Osage County labeled as "Osage Indian Reservation." Is the entire county considered a reservation? If this is so, how does the Osage tribe feel about this statue? After all, shouldn't their opinion be considered if an eighteen-story statue of a Native American is proposed on their front door?
Those are my questions. Truthfully, I think the statue is tacky. But, if it can be made into an accurate cultural representation, I would feel better about it. If this project does actually materialize, I want to see professionalism.
Interesting question. I wonder if the native tribes see this as an honor...or just another tacky stereotype wearing a loin cloth.
Please, please, please....could we just build a 10' tall version of this thing and hide it in some bushes somewhere in the botanical gardens...and be done with it!
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
What I want to know is how the Native tribes stand on this.
It's hard to second-guess things like that.
When the NCAA demanded Northeastern State University in Tahlequah change the name of their athletic teams from "Redmen" they assumed it would have the backing of the area tribes.
As it turned out, the only ones offended by the name "Redmen" was the NCAA, but the university president at the time went for the $$$ and changed it.
I called and spoke with the spokeswoman, she is supposed to be emailing me the official update. As of yet, she has not (spoke with her this AM).
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
What I want to know is how the Native tribes stand on this.
It's hard to second-guess things like that.
When the NCAA demanded Northeastern State University in Tahlequah change the name of their athletic teams from "Redmen" they assumed it would have the backing of the area tribes.
As it turned out, the only ones offended by the name "Redmen" was the NCAA, but the university president at the time went for the $$$ and changed it.
That's the problem with all of the Native American motifs in Oklahoma- the actual Native American tribes never get to voice their opinion. The mascot controversy at many Oklahoma schools always seems to turn into a money pit for attorneys and out-of-state civil liberty groups, who have absolutely no knowledge of Native American culture. It would be nice if someone just interviewed some tribal government officials around the state to get the tribes' official positions.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by hoodlum
Maybe we can take all the big scultputres and put them in a "Large scale" sculpture park.
The golden driller, the hands, the american, the indian at big cabin, the large tooth on peoria, the buffalo on 1-44 near sapulpa, the blue whale, the volkswagen spider on sheridan, any others?
how depressing, Tulsa is known for oversized "yard art".
I wonder if Houston still has the house with beer cans for a front lawn and siding. I lived there long enough to see this monstrosity, and glad it's not tied to our city.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
I wonder if Houston still has the house with beer cans for a front lawn and siding. I lived there long enough to see this monstrosity, and glad it's not tied to our city.
Yeah, I was laying in bed and watching the news just last weekend and saw that the building was bought and was being protected (or something like that). I wasn't quite awake yet, so I'm not sure of the specifics.[:P]
quote:
What I want to know is how the Native tribes stand on this. Do most tribes feel that this statue is representative of their culture, or is it just a purveyor of more stereotypes?
This is my question. Why not have a statute of an Indian who went on to be an astronaut or senator. I am a huge fan of history but the world is full of naked men and women statutes, and like someone said, unless it is really high quality, those most likely to appreciate it (artists) wont.
I have always thought that a pasture with a creek (could be artificial) with several bronze tepees (sp?) scattered in a community fashion. It would be semi-permanent and make a great retreat for boy/girl scout clubs and schools. PLUS, it is neat for tourists. Just my two cents.
At the end of the video story they claim the American is no more.
Anyone have different info?
Huzzah Botanical Garden.
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8251855
Another construction job will take dozens of years, but it's finally underway. The News On 6's Emory Bryan reports work is moving forward on the Centennial Botanical Garden.
Nothing in the barren landscape hints at what is to come. Heavy equipment is clearing away the rocky soil to build a berm that will hold a seven acre lake. It's just one element, the first, of the Centennial Botanical Garden that up until now has existed only on paper.
The leaders of the garden toasted the beginning of the first phase a $2.2 million taxpayer funded kick start that was part of the spending for the Oklahoma Centennial.
"Everything we've done with the centennial has been a fight, the weather, finances, but it always comes down to whether it's a good project for the State of Oklahoma," said Blake Wade with the Oklahoma Centennial Commission.
With the start of heavy construction, the project is finally showing some tangible, visual results.
Construction at the garden is just getting started. There's a temporary visitors' center and there is a large lake. It's one of the first defining features to be built at the garden.
"Construction is messy and it seems disorganized, but out of that disorganization, appearance of disorganization, is going to come a botanical garden the whole state can be proud of," said Barry Fugatt on the Garden Board of Directors.
The lake will be complete in three weeks, but landscaping and construction around it will take much longer. There will be 15 theme gardens and 60 smaller gardens. That's years away, but there is already something for visitors.
"We opened two hiking trails out on the site back in the fall and a lot of people have been hiking them. They're beautiful," said director Pat Woodrum.
American, DOA? Great news! That is what we DID NOT NEED! Good riddance!
quote:
Originally posted by breitee
American, DOA? Great news! That is what we DID NOT NEED! Good riddance!
I wonder what happened to the private donations they had already received. Didn't they already have something like 4 million?
Has it been returned or reallocated?
The stupid website is still there
http://www.theamerican.com/home/index.cfm?flash=1
quote:
Originally posted by swake
The stupid website is still there
http://www.theamerican.com/home/index.cfm?flash=1
I emailed Ms Bargas and asked. I'll display her response when I get it.
What they basically said is "The American Project claims it's still alive but we don't believe them and are officially ignoring them from here on out."
Good for them.
There were no "donations." It was a private venture for profit, they have investors money. It would be returned if the project went defunct as any company that is liquidated.
I seem to have been contacting them every 6 months, their response is consistently "we are in the financing stage" and little else. I'm guessing they hold the party line, but would not be totally surprised if it died.
I was excited about the project (even though it is gaudy), but at this point really don't care.
I'd be more excited that a grand vision succeeded in this town instead of what seems to be the usual "Look at us and what we're doing!!!" as it fades away or changes to less than what we were told.