Others on this forum keep mentioning a pending announcement about a baseball stadium downtown.
I keep hearing it is going to be announced between now and the election.
Does anybody have any idea when it will be announced and where it will be built?
quote:
FOX 23 KOKI (//%22http://www.fox23.com/content/flashplayer-localnews/story.aspx?content_id=13d76a2f-5f26-4422-b2ad-84a0a91c6dbc%22)
(TULSA, Okla.) June 18 - The construction of Tulsa's new arena has reached a new milestone. And it's one that makes it look much more impressive.
Work has begun on the BOK center's skin, the outer layer of the arena walls. In the meantime, work continues at city hall to bring other projects downtown.
Among those projects is a possible new ballpark for the Tulsa Drillers.
On many summer nights, Drillers fans head to the fairgrounds to see the team and all that comes with it. But soon they may have to go a new stadium to see their favorite team.
Tulsa's Director of Economic Development, Don Himelfarb, is working with the Drillers on a possible move. They're considering several locations downtown and one spot on the river, but won't yet say exactly where. "They're coming either adjacent to downtown or downtown itself."
The owner of the Drillers told FOX23 News he would prefer to move the team to a downtown location, something city officials are excited about.
Himelfarb says, "It's just going to bring alive nightlife and restaurants and other entertainment venues. It's the perfect prescription for bringing downtown alive."
Fans who do not want the team to move, say they'll still support the team even if their future summer nights are spent somewhere else.
And the Drillers owner says he would love to have the new stadium built by 2010, but he's not yet sure who's going to pay for it.
The city is also working on bringing several other developments downtown, including a new hotel, and retail area. Both of those projects would be near the new arena.
Hope still out there for this project. This recent update got me to thinking that the moving around City Hall will free up some land (Tulsa Development Authority) in the blue dome district (not the east end) that would allow the construction of a stadium.
If you placed it at the TDA area, it would be a central point to go into blue dome, greenwood and the east end.
I'm still hoping GDP builds it sine they had structured parking and below grade field.
I just hope there is AT LEAST as much private money involved in any stadium as there is public money.
Of course, if this does happen we will be left with another tenant loss at Expo and reduced capacity for the Bedlam series which will likely cause it to abandoned Tulsa.
Needless to say, I leery of such projects.
What is attendance for bedlam?
I think the GDP plan was for 8,000ish seats. They have around 5,000 in attendance for driller games but 11,000 in seats so this meets halfway.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
What is attendance for bedlam?
I think the GDP plan was for 8,000ish seats. They have around 5,000 in attendance for driller games but 11,000 in seats so this meets halfway.
11,184 were at the last Bedlam game. Link (//%22http://www.okstate.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=1666&SPID=154&DB_OEM_ID=200&ATCLID=881367%22)
I would hope that they would keep stadium capacity at greater than 10,000, and consider moving to AAA. It's not out of the question, as the Drillers typically flirt with having the best attendance in AA.
AAA ball would be a much bigger draw and a LOT more money. AAA ball players make an average of $54,000 a year (thank you I-Cubs program) and demand top notch facilities. However, they also make appearances in the majors, get sent down, remain on contract etc. etc. - drawing more fans. The Driller's seem like a farm-league team to me for some reason. But I still enjoy the games.
Here is what Des Moines for its AAA club:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_Park
Seats 12K at a 1992 cost of $12 million.
It seems that Global Development Partners have put a date on their project "In Spring of 2009, the East End will deliver a live/work/play/stay environment to Tulsa and a destination of choice for its regional trade area."
Link (//%22http://www.globaldevelopmentpartners.com/EastEnd.html%22)
And they have updated their brochure. Here is one of the photo's they have added:
(http://www.law.utulsa.edu/Unused/gotu/building1.jpg)
This is there what - third announcement of a development in this area?
/I'm wishful but not holding my breath.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
This is there what - third announcement of a development in this area?
/I'm wishful but not holding my breath.
Oh I hear ya.....everyone is saying that they are doing something in the east end, but nothing happens.
I think the date was already there.
The rendering is new.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I think the date was already there.
The rendering is new.
I could not remember if it was on there before.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I think the date was already there.
The rendering is new.
This still means they're doing something.
Hey! Someone out there who knows . . . what is the status of the developer fight over the Nordam property? Are we getting a Wal-Mart or a ballpark? Or a Wal-Mart Park?
I like that building though, very nice.
Is this still "on"? Will this actually happen?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
AAA ball would be a much bigger draw and a LOT more money. AAA ball players make an average of $54,000 a year (thank you I-Cubs program) and demand top notch facilities. However, they also make appearances in the majors, get sent down, remain on contract etc. etc. - drawing more fans. The Driller's seem like a farm-league team to me for some reason. But I still enjoy the games.
Here is what Des Moines for its AAA club:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_Park
Seats 12K at a 1992 cost of $12 million.
AAA isn't out of the question. Weren't the Tulsa Oilers a AAA club for St. Louis?
Kind of before your time here in Tulsa, but Sammy Sosa, Dean Palmer, Bobby Witt, (I think) Pudge Rodriquez, Ruben Sierra and a few others who went on to good MLB careers have donned the Drillers uniform.
ummm.... who atracted this investment???... it's sure as h--e------ double-hockeysticks.... wasn't minor league Tulsa baseball fans redeeming Reasors' tickets for freebies and seating upgrades at the fairgrounds.... if it weren't for us soccer fans, would these people from Global Development Partners have ever given Tulsans the time of day???
It was US. The UNIQUE and perpetually COOL soccer fans of T-town... Charlie Mitchell deserves better... Victor Moreland deserves better... Keith Eddy deserves better... Steve Earle deserves better... Tom McIntosh deserves better... the remarkable soccer fans of Tulsa deserve it... WE EARNED IT! Bring Billy Caskey home to Tulsa.
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2005/051118_A1_Citym117_a1soc18.jpg)
That's right, it was US... Tulsa's soccer fans... the sports fans who continually make this city UNIQUE.
Guess you minor league baseball fans don't think you have to thank us soccer fans, who attracted this investment in the first place?!?.... cuz god knows you'll never admit to it...
minor league baseball = baby-boomer shuffleboard.
I guess if you're over 50, you'll never understand the betrayal when this city has had over a decade of chances to pursue a UNIQUE opportunity???... orchestrated by a buncha baby boomer senior citizens...... a few baseball folks who evidently weren't nice enough to qualify as welcomers at WalMart, who arbitrarily decided at my last Drillers' game that me and my 20-something aged friends weren't good enough to be able to sit outside of the "right" side of Driller Park...
Soccer fans DESERVED this... we deserved a place to call home... WE EARNED IT!!!.... Drillers fans and Ice Oilers fans got lots and lots of public $$$ dropped on their laps... thanks to us...
Soccer in Tulsa deserves better than the craptastic beaurocracy that will give this city an undeserved AAA baseball stadium...
WE SOCCER FANS attracted this investment in the first place... WE DESERVE BETTER.
I was young at the time, but I recall the Roughnecks begging for fans to come, all sorts of promotions to fill the stands, that were never filled.
I even recall towards the end cans being passed around town for lose change donations to "save the roughnecks".
Truly, I'm all for a soccer team, but we don't have one, and are unlikely to get one. And insulting baseball fans who might also be soccer fans isn't really bright. And, as for the promotions, all pro teams not in the NFL do that, including MLS. Plus, the Driller play what, 80 home games vs 16 for MLS? The Drillers average about 5,000 fans per game, again for 80 games, MLS is around 10,000 per game, for 16 games.
Don't believe me?
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/JamieTrecker/2006/09/27/MLS_systematically_lies_about_its_attendance
Quote:
This isn't a new story — both the Sport Business Journal (in a story I wrote) and the New York Times have detailed how MLS teams "paper the house." But Mark Ziegler of the San Diego Union-Tribune today confirms with official MLS docs what many of us have known: MLS systematically lies about its attendance. The bottom line: Most MLS teams average just 10,000 fans a game.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
I was young at the time, but I recall the Roughnecks begging for fans to come, all sorts of promotions to fill the stands, that were never filled.
Tulsans didn't know anything in the 70s about soccer except that you couldn't touch the ball with your hands, that their kids played, and that some guy named Pele was trying to make the sport popular here.
Tulsa got a team in 1978 after a successful 1977 exhibition game at Skelly that drew 11,000 fans... Only crazy people would have expected the Tulsa Roughnecks to fill 41k-seat Skelly Stadium... heck, TU still can't do it unless they're playing OU or OSU... and well... its THEIR stadium... The Tulsa Roughnecks had 2 games with crowds of over 30,000 fans against the NY Cosmos (I own a VHS tape of one of them)..... but had many games over the years that drew between 20k and 30k... Tulsa was normally in the top tier (top 25%) in attendance for most of their short history.
I remember many of the promotions.
Certainly in '78, '79 and '80, there were lots of giveaways. It helped drive average attendance from 11k per game that first year to nearly 20,000 fans per game in 1980. But I don't remember the kind of stark grocery store giveaways the Driller resort to... discounts, yes... group discounts, you betcha...
quote:
I even recall towards the end cans being passed around town for lose change donations to "save the roughnecks".
I guess this is a matter of perspective. I remember back in the 80s when some jacknut called KRMG to complain that Tulsa doesn't need a soccer team and to do the general griping certain naysayers in this city are well versed in up to today... KRMG had call after call from citizens who wanted to support the team and help out.
I believe when over 12,000 individuals thought enough of Tulsa's soccer team to raise around $60,000 to help the team make payroll.... it's a tribute to the spirit and generosity of Roughnecks fans, not an indictment of pro soccer. I mean, when the AAA Tulsa Oilers moved to New Orleans in the 70s, did those fans collect donations to keep the team in town?
The early 80s were the days of the "oil bust" and because of the economy Tulsa's ownership group was no longer going to bankroll the team... yet they found a buyer, then another... a new ownership group in 1985 was prepared to toil onward with only three other teams... New York, Minnesota and Toronto...
quote:
Truly, I'm all for a soccer team, but we don't have one, and are unlikely to get one. And insulting baseball fans who might also be soccer fans isn't really bright. And, as for the promotions, all pro teams not in the NFL do that, including MLS. Plus, the Driller play what, 80 home games vs 16 for MLS? The Drillers average about 5,000 fans per game, again for 80 games, MLS is around 10,000 per game, for 16 games.
Don't believe me?
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/JamieTrecker/2006/09/27/MLS_systematically_lies_about_its_attendance
Quote:
This isn't a new story — both the Sport Business Journal (in a story I wrote) and the New York Times have detailed how MLS teams "paper the house." But Mark Ziegler of the San Diego Union-Tribune today confirms with official MLS docs what many of us have known: MLS systematically lies about its attendance. The bottom line: Most MLS teams average just 10,000 fans a game.
Bottom line... MLS teams don't average 15,000 sold tickets per game but the Drillers don't average 5,000 sold tickets per game either. Those are "distributed tickets." And I've never seen an MLS team with free grocery store coupons to add attendance in the hopes they can sell more $5 hot dogs.... the closest was KC with some pretty heavy discounts...
I've read that article before and it still rings true...
I know about MLS's padding of numbers pretty well... I've gone to games in multiple cities... and this is exactly why I think Tulsa could be a much better market than KC, Denver, Dallas, etc... Tulsa's 2003 exhibition game had over 14,000 in PAID attendance. Ticket prices were really cheap for large groups ($6 per ticket for 25 or more)... when 3500 in the course of that game sign up for season tix for a team that doesn't yet exist, well... I find that much more impressive than the MLS exhibition game in Phoenix that attracted 3,000 fans... but I'd expect Phoenix to get a team before Tulsa...
Oh. And I'd rather have the ballpark and mixed use development over a WalMart supercenter any day... [;)]
They need to do what Midland Texas did and that is to bring it all downtown.
Baseball, Soccer and High School football needs to be in one area that will support downtown. TU ought to have their football games moved there as well where there would be plenty of parking and etc.
Here's Scharbauer Sports Complex in Midland:
http://www.team-psc.com/Services/Recreational/ssc.htm
quote:
Originally posted by sportyart
Link (//%22http://www.globaldevelopmentpartners.com/EastEnd.html%22)
I just looked at the PDF Boucher they have and again we have a sports facility without parking spaces. [?]
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by sportyart
Link (//%22http://www.globaldevelopmentpartners.com/EastEnd.html%22)
I just looked at the PDF Boucher they have and again we have a sports facility without parking spaces. [?]
You might want to look again. See the thing marked "G6"
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
You might want to look again. See the thing marked "G6"
I saw that, a pretty good rule of thumb is 1 acre holds about 100 cars. By using the baseball field as a scale factor, it looks as though that parking lot is about 1 1/2 acres max.
Saying that, it may be a multi level parking facility we are seeing in G6 ....... at least I hope that is what it is.
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
You might want to look again. See the thing marked "G6"
I saw that, a pretty good rule of thumb is 1 acre holds about 100 cars. By using the baseball field as a scale factor, it looks as though that parking lot is about 1 1/2 acres max.
Saying that, it may be a multi level parking facility we are seeing in G6 ....... at least I hope that is what it is.
It is
G = Garage FYI
And, it's really just too bad about the lack of parking downtown.
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
They need to do what Midland Texas did and that is to bring it all downtown.
Baseball, Soccer and High School football needs to be in one area that will support downtown. TU ought to have their football games moved there as well where there would be plenty of parking and etc.
Here's Scharbauer Sports Complex in Midland:
http://www.team-psc.com/Services/Recreational/ssc.htm
Yes, bring it downtown....just like Midland...if their downtown was 12 miles across. The complex that you speak of is six miles from downtown......
(http://www.law.utulsa.edu/Unused/gotu/mid.jpg)
I don't understand the desire for a new baseball facility for Tulsa. What is wrong with the present Drillers stadium at 15th & Yale? I recall people saying in the very recent past that it was the finest AA ballpark in the country. Are they having to turn away paying fans because of no seating capacity? Is the place falling down from age and lack of maintenance? I don't think so. Is parking a problem? Not that I am aware of. Is it just because it is nearly 30 years old now, and the team owners want to one-up the competition with a new status symbol, regardless of any real need? Quite possible.
In my opinion, if the team owners want a new baseball facility, then they should have one as long as they spend only their own money or make their own private financing arrangements for the construction, and honor any financial obligations to the County for use of the current park. Tulsa taxpayers have better, more pressing needs for their money than a new baseball park.
The current driller's stadium is the oldest in the league and oversized as well. The stadium is basically prefab portable bleachers and looks cheap. There is no pressing need to move in the short term but long term it would be more profitable and more of a community asset if it was nice and located downtown.
quote:
Originally posted by sportyart
Obviously you have never been to west texas. [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
I don't understand the desire for a new baseball facility for Tulsa.
I think sgrizzle is right on target with his reply to you. And if we are going to get our downtown back going we need to bring venues like this downtown, along with the arts and etc.
I heard last week that the Mayors office is looking into a way to move the homeless out into another area, just like Minneapolis had to do in order to make their downtown successful. We really have a chance at making our downtown as nice as Minneapolis, this may be our only chance .
Lets move the homeless to 91st and Yale!
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
Lets move the homeless to 91st and Yale!
Second that! Then lets move 56th street North to Jenks.[:D]
Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings
Have you driven in downtown Tulsa lately? IT probably has the
least congestion of any part of Tulsa.
ONe problem I do have with this equation is taking something from one part of town where it functions just fine, and moving it to another part as an experiment. There is no guarantee that it will bring life downtown - look at 15th and Yale, there are few restaurants within a mile of there, there are no bars that I'd step foot in... What makes us think putting it downtown will make these things magically happen?
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa1603
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings
Have you driven in downtown Tulsa lately? IT probably has the least congestion of any part of Tulsa.
ONe problem I do have with this equation is taking something from one part of town where it functions just fine, and moving it to another part as an experiment. There is no guarantee that it will bring life downtown - look at 15th and Yale, there are few restaurants within a mile of there, there are no bars that I'd step foot in... What makes us think putting it downtown will make these things magically happen?
Why not put the ball park out in a rural area? A place that has room and room to grow in the future and can handle the traffic and space for a parking big lot? With a downtown ball park you'll have heavy traffic on narrow city streets & roads not designed for it - 15th street is not exactly made to move thousands of cars, Peoria, Lewis, Harvard, 21st street they will all be traffic choked on days of a ball game. Residents will not be able to get out for shopping. Anything downtown will have limeted space to grow and be a tight fit
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings
Downtown stadiums help support the unique urban identity of cities. People walk a long way to stadiums, either from a large suburban sea of concrete parking lot, or from a downtown garage. If you build a stadium downtown, you provide support for retail/restaurant business around the stadium, due to the fact that people will be walking past city blocks instead of just parking spaces. Why build out in the country and further exhaust our infrastructure when we could have a stadium downtown that would add value back to an already existing area, thus securing all the rest of the city's downtown investments. The downtown skyline would be a great backdrop for college games and tournaments, adding much needed PR for the Tulsa region.
Building a new stadium anywhere but downtown would be a mistake.
Many, many minor league towns have recently moved from drab, placeless stadiums in the middle of parking lots to beautiful downtown stadiums. I've visited quite a few of these ballparks. Why would we attempt to ignore a winning formula to build another stadium in the middle of a giant parking lot?
Downtown stadiums have played major roles in downtown revitalization in cities all over the country.
I live and work downtown. I've been here for a year. The next time I see downtown choked with traffic will be the first time. Downtown streets are seemingly engineered for many times more traffic than needed. Boulder goes down to one lane near fourth st and that doesn't seem to cause any type of traffic jam.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa1603
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings
Have you driven in downtown Tulsa lately? IT probably has the least congestion of any part of Tulsa.
ONe problem I do have with this equation is taking something from one part of town where it functions just fine, and moving it to another part as an experiment. There is no guarantee that it will bring life downtown - look at 15th and Yale, there are few restaurants within a mile of there, there are no bars that I'd step foot in... What makes us think putting it downtown will make these things magically happen?
Why not put the ball park out in a rural area? A place that has room and room to grow in the future and can handle the traffic and space for a parking big lot? With a downtown ball park you'll have heavy traffic on narrow city streets & roads not designed for it - 15th street is not exactly made to move thousands of cars, Peoria, Lewis, Harvard, 21st street they will all be traffic choked on days of a ball game. Residents will not be able to get out for shopping. Anything downtown will have limeted space to grow and be a tight fit
None of those streets are downtown, and what you actually have described is the current location of the stadium
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Why not put the ball park out in a rural area? A place that has room and room to grow in the future and can handle the traffic and space for a parking big lot? With a downtown ball park you'll have heavy traffic on narrow city streets & roads not designed for it - 15th street is not exactly made to move thousands of cars, Peoria, Lewis, Harvard, 21st street they will all be traffic choked on days of a ball game. Residents will not be able to get out for shopping. Anything downtown will have limeted space to grow and be a tight fit
So you described it's location so exact you're pretty much a human GPS.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa1603
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings
Have you driven in downtown Tulsa lately? IT probably has the least congestion of any part of Tulsa.
ONe problem I do have with this equation is taking something from one part of town where it functions just fine, and moving it to another part as an experiment. There is no guarantee that it will bring life downtown - look at 15th and Yale, there are few restaurants within a mile of there, there are no bars that I'd step foot in... What makes us think putting it downtown will make these things magically happen?
Why not put the ball park out in a rural area? A place that has room and room to grow in the future and can handle the traffic and space for a parking big lot? With a downtown ball park you'll have heavy traffic on narrow city streets & roads not designed for it - 15th street is not exactly made to move thousands of cars, Peoria, Lewis, Harvard, 21st street they will all be traffic choked on days of a ball game. Residents will not be able to get out for shopping. Anything downtown will have limeted space to grow and be a tight fit
It sounds as though you've never been in downtown Tulsa (and perhaps never been to a baseball stadium). ;-)
Just pointing out that the initial post was bumped from 3/13/06... there were quite a few posts from that initial discussion that were deleted...
Last fall, we all assumed the ballpark was going to simply replace the soccer stadium initially proposed by Global Development...
Now this?
quote:
Tulsa's Director of Economic Development, Don Himelfarb, is working with the Drillers on a possible move. They're considering several locations downtown and one spot on the river, but won't yet say exactly where. "They're coming either adjacent to downtown or downtown itself."
The owner of the Drillers told FOX23 News he would prefer to move the team to a downtown location, something city officials are excited about.
Himelfarb says, "It's just going to bring alive nightlife and restaurants and other entertainment venues. It's the perfect prescription for bringing downtown alive."
---------------------------------------------
And the Drillers owner says he would love to have the new stadium built by 2010, but he's not yet sure who's going to pay for it.
Interesting to hear the Drillers' are
"not yet sure who's going to pay for it," since we all assumed the ballpark was going to be part of a TIF district financed "anchor" for a mixed-use development.
Sales taxes are just not going to fly for the ballpark alone (Driller Park has been renovated and is not falling apart), or at the very least, they'd have to be tied to the current river proposal somehow...
And when Don Himelfarb says things like,
"It's just going to bring alive nightlife and restaurants and other entertainment venues. It's the perfect prescription for bringing downtown alive," methinks he exagerates... and I'd think exactly the same way if he said this about a soccer/football stadium...
Bricktown gets a boost on event days from both the AT&T ballpark and the Ford Center... but Bricktown pre-dates all the new downtown stuff in OKC... build the ballpark in the wrong spot in downtown Tulsa and it simply won't do much of anything-- people will go to the game, buy Cinemark-priced concessions and then drive straight home... just like they do at the fairgrounds now... and once the stadium's newness wears off...?
Drillers' owner Chuck Lamson once said that a new downtown ballpark would double attendance. I'm not sure whether attendance would actually double or not... but the more important point is that I believe a new ballpark would effectively double revenue for the Drillers for at least 3-5 years... the Drillers shouldn't have to resort to as many free tickets/seat upgrades for those years and a portion of the extra $$$ the Drillers would realize could be used to help pay for the stadium rather than the increase in salary and travel expenses for a move to triple-A.
BTW, Driller Park isn't the oldest stadium in the Texas League... that honor goes to Wichita's Lawrence-Dumont Stadium, built in 1934 through the WPA...
The two best examples of new stadiums for Texas league teams would be the brand new one in North Little Rock across from their downtown that replaced the circa 1932 Ray Winder Field... http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/050630bizbeat.html
quote:
The team and local leaders had been at an impasse over how much the Travelers would contribute to pay off the ballpark's construction bonds. The parties reached an agreement that called for a 20-year lease with successive five-year renewal options. The Travelers will use gate receipts, concessions, advertising and luxury seat revenue to operate the club and stadium and make minor capital improvements. After those expenses, the Travelers and North Little Rock will split remaining revenue.
The new ballpark would be part of a 22-acre development with condominiums, restaurants, shops and offices. The ballpark would sit on 11.6 acres, purchased for $5.8 million by Little Rock financier Warren Stephens last summer. Stephens donated the land in exchange for naming rights for the ballpark.
Drawings show the ballpark next to the Broadway Bridge spanning the Arkansas River between North Little Rock and Little Rock, the state capitol. The 7,000-seat ballpark, with luxury boxes and an outfield berm, would open on a view of the Little Rock skyline.
------------------------------------------------
The Travelers have played in 6,083-seat Ray Winder Field since it opened in 1932, but the ballpark has long been in need of major improvements and has been granted waivers by Major League Baseball to allow the team to keep playing there.
... and the new privately funded ballpark in downtown Springfield, MO...
http://www.ballparkreviews.com/springmo/springmo.htm
Himelfarb has been quoted as saying the old current Public Works yard south of 23rd and Jackson will be "more recreational than commercial". Someone else said he meant a ballpark.
If there's a master plan laying around, I'd sure like to see it.
quote:
P.J. Lassek World Staff Writer
Tulsa World (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070701_1_A1_spanc08253%22)
City officials are eyeing sites for a new Drillers Stadium downtown or on the west bank of the Arkansas River.
But the availability of those sites depends heavily on whether the City Council approves a proposed consolidation plan to move City Hall into One Technology Center.
"The move will provide us development opportunities we don't currently have," Economic Development Director Don Himelfarb said about the ability to assemble land for a ballpark site.
Drillers owner Chuck Lamson confirmed he has been talking to Himelfarb and Mayor Kathy Taylor about relocating to downtown or the west bank of the Arkansas River south of the 21st Street Bridge.
"My preference would be to move to the central business district downtown because that is a proven area in terms of what has been done in many cities the size of Tulsa," Lamson said.
Lamson said those cities, including Oklahoma City, have seen how investing in a downtown stadium can spur private investments, "creating a vibrant environment."
Several city-owned properties would be freed up for redevelopment through Taylor's City Hall consolidation plan, which would move 1,000 employees in 14 departments into One Technology Center.
The council is set to vote July 12 on whether to purchase the 15-story building at First Street and Cincinnati Avenue.
Although councilors continue to have questions about the risks of the purchase, nearly all agree that one positive side effect of the move is that it would free up city-owned land.
Himelfarb will not reveal all the potential sites downtown where a stadium for the Double-A minor-league baseball team could be located because he wants to avoid real estate speculation. But he said that one potential site is the Hartford Building at 110 S. Greenwood Ave., which is owned by the Tulsa Development Authority and houses city employees who would be moved in the consolidation.
"That site does have issues, as any downtown site will have, because you need 11 acres for the stadium," he said.
First and Second streets -- connectors to Interstate 244 -- cut through the property.
Officials also have talked about locating the stadium near the BOK Center, which would follow a model other cities have successfully used to spur revitalization.
Lamson said he wants it clear that although he favors a downtown location, he "would never rule out any opportunity on the west bank, with the festival park and a great view of downtown."
If the consolidation move is approved, the Public Works facility on the west bank at 23rd Street and Jackson Avenue would be vacated.
The space for sand and salt storage, trucks, other heavy equipment and some staff would move to a site in north Tulsa, while the remaining staff would go to One Technology Center, the council has been told.
A recently proposed Tulsa County river tax, if put to a vote, is expected to include funds to acquire land on the west bank, including sites between 11th and 21st streets for river development, which could be complemented by a stadium located to the south, officials say.
Lamson said his only concern about a river site is traffic flow. He said downtown can easily handle the traffic produced from a crowd of 10,000. He said he is not so sure about the site near the 21st Street Bridge.
"Revitalizing the downtown and the river plans are very exciting. We would love to be a part of it one way or another," Lamson said.
The Drillers' lease with the Tulsa County Public Facilities Authority for the site at the fairgrounds expires in 2009, Lamson said.
He also said there are discussions with Tulsa County officials about a year-to-year lease if the Drillers franchise could not transition into a new ballpark by 2010.
Lamson noted that the current stadium is still usable.
"As a Tulsan, I want Tulsa to be a successful city, not only for quality-of-life issues for my family, but for the business community," he said.
A plan announced in August proposed that Global Development Partners of Washington, D.C., purchase property in east downtown, north of Home Depot, to create a mixed-use, urban environment that would include a baseball stadium.
But that plan appears to no longer include the stadium, since property the developers had hoped to acquire for the stadium site is not available.
Possible site locations?:
(http://www.law.utulsa.edu/Unused/gotu/baseballsites.jpg)
I'll admit I rarely go to Driller games, although, I do enjoy being at the stadium when I do go, so I'm not sure why I don't go more often. That little tid bit aside, whether the stadium is at 15th and Yale or Downtown, won't have any bearing, or make it more likely, that I will go to more games. I've been to OKC's Bricktown stadium, and it's nice, but again, not sure a stadium like that would make me want to go to more games.
Unless tons more people would go to games at a new stadium, not sure spending that amount of cash results in anything positive other then to say "we have a new stadium."
The County obvously wants to dislocate the existing Driller Park, which is a fine facility, often being called "the best in the League".
I guess the County has BIG plans for the corner of 15th & Yale, which surely would have "higher and better" uses, from an income standpoint, than the ballpark.
There's no reason to move, that I can see.
Someone keeps fabricating the "need" for it to be somewhere else, and what a great economic benefit it would provide in a "synergistic" kind of way.
Crap!
From this point forward, I'll not be participating in any discussion about ballparks.
If someone wants to do that privately, fine. But, public shouldn't be paying for this kind of deal at all, especially when there's no money to light the streets, open pools, fix streets, etc, etc.
And, basing a move of City Hall on the need for a ballpark could easily be labelled pure insanity.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
The County obvously wants to dislocate the existing Driller Park, which is a fine facility, often being called "the best in the League".
I guess the County has BIG plans for the corner of 15th & Yale, which surely would have "higher and better" uses, from an income standpoint, than the ballpark.
There's no reason to move, that I can see.
Someone keeps fabricating the "need" for it to be somewhere else, and what a great economic benefit it would provide in a "synergistic" kind of way.
Crap!
From this point forward, I'll not be participating in any discussion about ballparks.
If someone wants to do that privately, fine. But, public shouldn't be paying for this kind of deal at all, especially when there's no money to light the streets, open pools, fix streets, etc, etc.
And, basing a move of City Hall on the need for a ballpark could easily be labelled pure insanity.
Other than a lack of paved parking during "big" games, there is nothing wrong with current location. Facilities are adequate. Lamson seems to think someone else should pay for a new stadium because the Drillers are so key to development? That is ridiculous.
There's something missing here... the city insisted on annexing the fairgrounds... Bell's basically got thrown out...
And it sounds to me like the Drillers are also being pushed out. Even after their lease expires, if they don't have a place to play, it's been quoted they'd be on a year-to-year lease... waiting for the other shoe to drop...
I see the quote about Driller Park being the "finest in the league" but that quote's gotta be over 10 years old... the Drillers would like to
keep up with the Joneses and get a new ballpark like OKC, Round Rock (Austin), Springfield, Little Rock, Corpus Christi, Frisco (TX) have...
***Conspiracy Theory Alert***There's still something missing in the equation though... when I went to a Drillers' game a few weeks back, I parked on an asphault parking lot and walked over the dirt in the middle of... well... a racetrack.
I'm willing to bet on some pretty good odds that the future of the fairgrounds is going to be CASINO GAMBLING. It'll be an effort to turn Fair Meadows Racetrack into Tulsa's version of OKC's Remington Park... and I'd wager it'll also include a new casino...
Remington's casino in OKC opened fall 2005...
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=31127
quote:
Remington Park Casino Opens to Large Crowd
by Jerry Shottenkirk
Date Posted: November 22, 2005
Last Updated: November 23, 2005
A dream came true Nov. 21 for Remington Park officials and Oklahoma horsemen. Shortly before 1 p.m., the track opened the doors of its new $35-million slot-machine casino.
As a result of the passage of State Question 712 last fall, Remington altered the look of its 17-year-old facility, and the public quickly responded when the gaming hall opened.
"It was fantastic, especially for a soft opening," Remington Park general manager Scott Wells said. "We had over 700 customers in the first 40 minutes. It far exceeded our expectations."
Attendance for the day was 4,342.
Late in the afternoon, Wells and his staff looked forward to the evening's live racing card, which began at 6:30 p.m. "It has remained steady," Wells said. "There were lines at all the machines. The place was packed."
Magna Entertainment Corp., which owns Remington, put construction crews into action four months ago.
"It has been only 120 days since we signed (an agreement) with the Zoo (which owns the land on which Remington sits)," Wells said. "The renovation has taken place in 120 days. They worked round the clock the last 60 days, in three shifts."
The Oklahoma City Zoo will receive a percentage of casino profits, as will the state of Oklahoma, horsemen's purses, and the general fund at Remington.
Remington Park Casino includes 650 gaming machines; a valet entrance; Wild Rush Bar with overhead sound stage; Remy's restaurant; 360-degree LCD monitors, or Dynascans; and The Lookout, a race book overlooking the finish line. The track's grandstand level, which had not been used for years, was transformed into the gaming center.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20070309/ai_n18712941
quote:
Following the third-best attendance year in track history, Remington Park will open its quarter horse season tonight with intentions of equaling last year's accomplishments.
The track drew 1.3 million fans last year, which is the third- highest total in Remington's 19 years of existence. Most of that came in the form of players in the track's casino area. The total marked the first time the track has surpassed the 1 million mark since 1994.
Interesting coincidence that Winnercomm co-founder Chris Lincoln is back at KTUL vowing to cover local sports much more closely... he clearly doesn't need the money... and he's always been a huge supporter of Thoroughbred racing, covering horse racing for ABC and ESPN.
Things that make you go hmmmm. [8]
Careful Rufnex, your starting to sound like Shadows.