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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: Conan71 on March 18, 2015, 08:56:07 AM

Title: The Truck Yard
Post by: Conan71 on March 18, 2015, 08:56:07 AM
QuoteTulsa pushes for 'Truck Yard' business on river's west bank; River Parks solicits proposals

Document: Draft RFP for West Bank

Visit Truck Yard's website.

The Mayor's Office has been in private talks with a Texas company to bring "brews, grub and tunes" to River West Festival Park year-round.
But don't go planning a trip to the Truck Yard, as the prospective business is known, just yet.

The River Parks Board of Trustees, which operates the Festival Park, approved a draft request for proposals last week, but it doesn't include all of the space along the west bank of the Arkansas River that the city initially envisioned for Truck Yard.

The request for proposals does, however, make four west bank sites — three of them in River West Festival Park — available for commercial development.
The River Parks trustees spoke publicly about the Truck Yard proposal at a meeting Thursday, and several of them made it clear that they would prefer that Truck Yard or any other project be built on the fourth site, a piece of land along the river south of 23rd Street.
Trustee Jamie Marchesano said he would prefer to see the request for proposals not go out at all or that it be limited to the property near 23rd Street.

"But ... I think it is in our best interests to at least find out what's out there," he said.

He added, "We're getting pushed pretty hard by the city."

Clay Bird, director of the Mayor's Office of Economic Development, said he strongly disagrees with Marchesano's characterization of how the city has worked with River Parks on the Truck Yard project.

"We never said, 'No, no, we have to have this,'" Bird said. "From my perspective, I felt it was something that would enhance the Festival Park area."

Truck Yard has the potential to create a festival atmosphere year-round, Bird said, rather than just having occasional festivals at the park.

And the company is looking at other development opportunities in Tulsa, Bird said.

"We're only one of several markets they're looking at for expansion and probably the smallest," Bird said.

The original Truck Yard, located in the Lower Greenville area of Dallas, was created by chef Jason Boso nearly two years ago.

Boso, founder of Twisted Root Burger Co., took 15,000 square feet of open space and loaded it with food trucks, a beer garden, picnic tables and live music to create a "fun and funky vibe" full of "brews, grub and tunes," according to the company's website.

The city of Tulsa could have pursued the Truck Yard project privately under a previous request for proposals but agreed with the River Parks Authority that a new RFP would be better because it would open the process to other developers, Bird said.

The city had made it clear to River Parks that the Truck Yard was not to be discussed publicly, Bird said.

"I only hope that the blatant breach of confidentiality (at Thursday's River Parks trustees' meeting) doesn't deter them from their plans," Bird said of the business. "I think it jeopardizes things. People can start trying to put together some kind of proposal that trumps what they are doing."

A spokeswoman for Truck Yard said last week that the company still has Tulsa on its radar.

"It's still a possibility," said Ariana Hajibashi. "But I guess down far in the future."

Marchesano told fellow board members that he objected to the city's proposed site for the Truck Yard because it took up too much space.

According to Marchesano, the Truck Yard envisioned at the Festival Park would have stretched from the rowing club building to the amphitheater — blocking the view of the river for Festival Park users.

The developer was even considering using the floating stage, Marchesano added.

"They wanted the whole east side of the park, which would have basically broke us off from the river," Marchesano said.

Bird said not extending the potential development site from the rowing club building to the amphitheater doesn't make sense because it could limit development options. The request for proposals could be written in such a way as to address River Parks' concerns while still making the entire area available, Bird said.

"To me, it just seems limiting and short-sighted to not at least see what opportunities are available," he said. "Especially when you have made your concerns known to the prospective developer and you don't have to accept any proposals."

The request for proposals states that River Parks is seeking "one or more commercial enterprises that may include food and beverage services with optional complementary activity and/or entertainment elements."

The RFP was written broadly to encourage creativity while requiring that proposals be family-friendly and compatible with the park's mandate to enhance public health and welfare.

River Parks leases its land from the city of Tulsa and has the final say on what — if anything — is developed on the property.

The deadline to submit a proposal is May 8.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage2/tulsa-pushes-for-truck-yard-business-on-river-s-west/article_072f8387-4ffa-558b-958a-83aeaca2c2f4.html
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: carltonplace on March 18, 2015, 11:06:20 AM
To me this whole proposal just shows how limited the mayor's vision is.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: PonderInc on March 18, 2015, 11:27:03 AM
When I first read this, I thought: what a weird name.  I assumed the City was moving forward with plans to do something with the land where the concrete trucks are parked.

I don't know anything about this company, but I don't understand why you need an outside entity to bring food trucks to Riverparks.  Wouldn't it be easier to just provide the necessary electricity and park benches, umbrellas, etc, and allow local food trucks to come in on certain predictable days/times--so people would know where they could find the trucks and when?  (Electricity is critical, so people out enjoying Riverparks don't have to listen to the sound of generators.)

Also: it's sort of weird timing for the Festival area, since the pedestrian bridge will be closed for 2 years. It will also be hard for a lot of people to loop over on the 21st street bridge (if they're accessing the River Trails on the east side from south of 31st, they really won't be able to get there on bike/foot.).
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Townsend on March 18, 2015, 12:52:01 PM
I'm wondering what kind of traffic they were expecting when this was completed.

Where would the customers come from?

This article might've been better titled "Your mayor and the dumbassed sort of things he's spending time on"
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Breadburner on March 18, 2015, 01:26:39 PM
The infrastructure would likely be more than what you think.....
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: carltonplace on March 18, 2015, 01:38:34 PM
Quote from: Breadburner on March 18, 2015, 01:26:39 PM
The infrastructure would likely be more than what you think.....

or less

(http://sidedish.dmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/view-from-the-top.jpg)

texastruckyard.com (http://texastruckyard.com)
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: AquaMan on March 18, 2015, 01:46:02 PM
Grub. Trucks. Brew. Tunes.

I bowed out at Grub.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Townsend on March 18, 2015, 01:47:44 PM
Quote from: carltonplace on March 18, 2015, 01:38:34 PM
or less

(http://sidedish.dmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/view-from-the-top.jpg)


What in the F'ing F is that?
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Conan71 on March 18, 2015, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: PonderInc on March 18, 2015, 11:27:03 AM
When I first read this, I thought: what a weird name.  I assumed the City was moving forward with plans to do something with the land where the concrete trucks are parked.

I don't know anything about this company, but I don't understand why you need an outside entity to bring food trucks to Riverparks.  Wouldn't it be easier to just provide the necessary electricity and park benches, umbrellas, etc, and allow local food trucks to come in on certain predictable days/times--so people would know where they could find the trucks and when?  (Electricity is critical, so people out enjoying Riverparks don't have to listen to the sound of generators.)

Also: it's sort of weird timing for the Festival area, since the pedestrian bridge will be closed for 2 years. It will also be hard for a lot of people to loop over on the 21st street bridge (if they're accessing the River Trails on the east side from south of 31st, they really won't be able to get there on bike/foot.).

I am convinced after confronting Clay Bird last night and how the question of "Smart Development" whiffed past him faster than a fart in the wind that sales tax is his meth and he's a meth head.

The projects he is pushing are literally in some of Tulsa's very best sight lines.  He is trying to mortgage some of Tulsa's best, unspoiled properties for the sake of sales tax.  Go redevelop a brownfield with a mall or do something about the parking sea in downtown and create dense, LOCALLY based retail if you want sales tax so effing bad.  Then the profit stays in Tulsa and recirculates in the economy.

It's as if this administration slept through economics class.

We have got to elect a mayor with far better vision and a better grasp on development issues.

/edit: That place is beyond tacky.  It somewhat reminded me of a junkyard.  Somehow that doesn't seem very congruous to the proposed surroundings.  Sounds like a great project for Broken Arrow or Owasso. ;)
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: carltonplace on March 18, 2015, 03:15:36 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on March 18, 2015, 02:53:55 PM

We have got to elect a mayor with far better vision and a better grasp on development issues.

/edit: That place is beyond tacky.  It somewhat reminded me of a junkyard.  Somehow that doesn't seem very congruous to the proposed surroundings.  Sounds like a great project for Broken Arrow or Owasso. ;)

Or maybe in a giant parking lot downtown or at a certain Fintube site?

Only 3 more years until we can elect another mayor...I doubt we have learned anything though.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: AquaMan on March 18, 2015, 03:27:22 PM
Let's recap Carlton. He's male. He's republican. He's oil. He's got his father's name. Oh, yeah...he's the river development mayor.

Re-elected easily on those credentials.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: LandArchPoke on March 18, 2015, 03:35:56 PM
Quote from: Townsend on March 18, 2015, 01:47:44 PM
What in the F'ing F is that?

I kind of like the idea... food truck parks are always fun. Now the size and scope of it, not sure I'm too thrilled about. I think this would be a good infusion to bring people to the west side of the river, but I think another location in the park would be better if it were to go here. Lets put truck park on the site of the old Whitter school instead of another QuikTrip. The Pearl would be a good location as well. There's a lot of options... It's sad the city is pushing so hard to commercialize our park space.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: TheArtist on March 18, 2015, 09:29:18 PM
My first thought was... "This won't work, seems kind of low brow/white trash."  Then of course I remembered where I lived.  It will probably do great.

The only other thought is,,, Oklahoma has crappier weather more days of the year than a lot of other places, including Dallas and Austin. Bitter bitter cold, turns to super windy and rainy, then goes to hot and steamy or dry (they do have hot in Dallas/Austin) but an outdoor venue trying to make a buck, well there is a reason Walt Disney chose Florida. For some things, Weather = Economics.  And this has that look about it.  It will sit empty a lot more than in Dallas or Austin where at least the nights during a larger part of the year are tolerable.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Townsend on March 19, 2015, 08:54:08 AM
Quote from: Floyd on March 18, 2015, 08:10:51 PM
Haven't posted in a very long time because I haven't lived in Tulsa for a very long time.  I live in Dallas now -- 4 blocks from this place.

The Truck Yard is one of the coolest, most exciting, laid back spots in the entire city.  Everyone who visits wishes it was in their neighborhood. 

Thanks Floyd.  I'll stop cocking an eyebrow at the idea but I still question the proposed location here in Tulsa.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Townsend on March 19, 2015, 08:54:47 AM
Quote from: TheArtist on March 18, 2015, 09:29:18 PM
My first thought was... "This won't work, seems kind of low brow/white trash."  Then of course I remembered where I lived.  It will probably do great.

We are the people of Walmart.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Breadburner on March 19, 2015, 09:30:00 AM
I dont think that's an ideal spot especially buiseness wise...
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: rdj on March 19, 2015, 09:40:34 AM
Tulsa is about seven years behind on food trucks and food truck "parks".  Had some of the best tacos ever at the a food truck spot in Austin on south Congress in mid-00's.

I agree this is a bad location, not terrible but not the best and highest use.  BUT, if it is part of a larger master plan that includes other commercial space and entertainment venues then I could be swayed.  Too bad there isn't #waterintheriver otherwise we'd see development like this along the banks.

As far as Conan's comments on sales tax being the ED departments meth, they have no choice.  It's their only source of income for operating funds.  If your company could only pay its employees from one product or one customer you'd whore yourself out as well.  This has to change and it has to change at the state level.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: PonderInc on March 19, 2015, 09:51:46 AM
There are some very successful food truck locations in Austin that are little more than gravel, trees and benches.  They are quirky and "Austiny" and people eat there. But I'm not going to go out of my way to find one.

In downtown Portland, they did something smarter.  Food trucks started renting parking spaces in a surface parking lot downtown... and setting up shop.  They basically created a street wall along one side of a surface lot, which creates a very nice, inviting place to walk and grab breakfast / lunch / dinner.  At first, the city didn't like it, but they quickly realized the value--and how this created a vital connection across a city block, instead of a dead urban space (surface parking).  The city ran electricity, so each truck can just plug in and nobody has to listen to the stupid generators that most food trucks rely on.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7652/16241453954_3235a6893e.jpg)

The food trucks offer affordable, diverse choices for people throughout the day.  They act as restaurant "incubators"; many people get established with a food truck and then move on to a brick and mortar restaurant.  Downtown Portland gets another vital city block, instead of dead space. And the city gets sales taxes from a prime chunk of land that was previously just parking for cars.

The vendors decorate their trucks and they are semi-permanent.  They don't drive around.

It doesn't seem to affect restaurant business negatively.  It's a different thing.  If you want to grab a burrito or a falafel and sit in the park, you go to the food trucks.  If you want to sit down in a restaurant and get full service, you do that. Also, they fill a gap in a neighborhood that doesn't have as many restaurants as some.

It's very cool, and creates a lively, nice option.  Tulsa could do this.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Conan71 on March 19, 2015, 09:56:27 AM
Quote from: rdj on March 19, 2015, 09:40:34 AM
Tulsa is about seven years behind on food trucks and food truck "parks".  Had some of the best tacos ever at the a food truck spot in Austin on south Congress in mid-00's.

I agree this is a bad location, not terrible but not the best and highest use.  BUT, if it is part of a larger master plan that includes other commercial space and entertainment venues then I could be swayed.  Too bad there isn't #waterintheriver otherwise we'd see development like this along the banks.

As far as Conan's comments on sales tax being the ED departments meth, they have no choice.  It's their only source of income for operating funds.  If your company could only pay its employees from one product or one customer you'd whore yourself out as well.  This has to change and it has to change at the state level.

Agreed.  Clay spoke about this at the meeting the other night and said Oklahoma is the only state now in which cities derive most of their operating budgets from sales tax collections. 

Still, that doesn't justify selling out prime pieces of land which are used for recreation and being a place to unplug without being surrounded by commercial enterprises.  Next on the block is the area around the skate park on the west side.  Let's focus on redeveloping abandoned and dilapidated areas before we start chopping away at land in prime recreation areas which are some of Tulsa's best assets.  That's speaking to the entire Riverparks system not just TMUWA.

I had a discussion at breakfast this morning with a councilor who said there's not even any consideration of the real monetary value of the land, that some of the deals the city envisions are like $1 leases.  If we are going to do that, let's give more weight to locally-based RFPs so that the bulk of the profit, in addition to sales tax, stays in the city.

As to changing the tax and budget system, here's why I don't see the Oklahoma legislature getting on board: change the base around to income or property based, it will be viewed as a tax increase.  We can't have tax increases because that's un-'murcan.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: BuiltRight on March 19, 2015, 10:55:26 AM
I just don't understand the location, why is the city trying to give away prime land to something that doesn't even fit into the vibe of the area. Can you imagine Oktoberfest butting up against the rusted truck beds and old windmills? I cant.

When I looked at their website http://texastruckyard.com/ (http://texastruckyard.com/) the look and feel would fit in so much better in The Pearl District along Route 66. There are so many underutilized lots there and the area already has a food truck culture with Lola's and Soul Studio's food truck events.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: hello on March 19, 2015, 11:34:22 AM
Quote from: BuildRight on March 19, 2015, 10:55:26 AM
I just don't understand the location, why is the city trying to give away prime land to something that doesn't even fit into the vibe of the area. Can you imagine Oktoberfest butting up against the rusted truck beds and old windmills? I cant.

When I looked at their website http://texastruckyard.com/ (http://texastruckyard.com/) the look and feel would fit in so much better in The Pearl District along Route 66. There are so many underutilized lots there and the area already has a food truck culture with Lola's and Soul Studio's food truck events.

Something like this would do really well in Tulsa, and the Pearl would be perfect. The West side of the river...not so much.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: patric on March 19, 2015, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: BuildRight on March 19, 2015, 10:55:26 AM
the look and feel would fit in so much better in The Pearl District along Route 66. There are so many underutilized lots there and the area already has a food truck culture with Lola's and Soul Studio's food truck events.

That sounds a lot more palatable...


/pun
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: rdj on March 19, 2015, 05:26:51 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on March 19, 2015, 09:56:27 AM
Agreed.  Clay spoke about this at the meeting the other night and said Oklahoma is the only state now in which cities derive most of their operating budgets from sales tax collections. 

Still, that doesn't justify selling out prime pieces of land which are used for recreation and being a place to unplug without being surrounded by commercial enterprises.  Next on the block is the area around the skate park on the west side.  Let's focus on redeveloping abandoned and dilapidated areas before we start chopping away at land in prime recreation areas which are some of Tulsa's best assets.  That's speaking to the entire Riverparks system not just TMUWA.

I had a discussion at breakfast this morning with a councilor who said there's not even any consideration of the real monetary value of the land, that some of the deals the city envisions are like $1 leases.  If we are going to do that, let's give more weight to locally-based RFPs so that the bulk of the profit, in addition to sales tax, stays in the city.

As to changing the tax and budget system, here's why I don't see the Oklahoma legislature getting on board: change the base around to income or property based, it will be viewed as a tax increase.  We can't have tax increases because that's un-'murcan.

Desperate people do desperate things.  They are desperate for revenue to fund basic services.  They are trying to sell the highest and best in the hope that the development will trickle down to the hard develop stuff.  I'd rather it be the other way around.  If you're going to help the private sector, do it by making the hard projects easier to do.  BUT, for some of these retailers doing any deal in a city with Tulsa's demographics is tough regardless of the location within the city.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Conan71 on March 19, 2015, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: rdj on March 19, 2015, 05:26:51 PM
Desperate people do desperate things.  They are desperate for revenue to fund basic services.  They are trying to sell the highest and best in the hope that the development will trickle down to the hard develop stuff.  I'd rather it be the other way around.  If you're going to help the private sector, do it by making the hard projects easier to do.  BUT, for some of these retailers doing any deal in a city with Tulsa's demographics is tough regardless of the location within the city.

I have mixed emotions about this new discretionary $2 mil the city can tap at will to attract new retailers like Costco.  Can we not develop a similar program to incubate innovative local entrepreneurs who have great ideas which are only lacking the money to get the project on the ground?  $2 mil can go a long way depending on the concept and development costs.  Come up with criteria which would only reward sound business plans, but which would not be so restrictive to ignore some really innovative thinking.

I understand Costco has the ability to generate far more sales tax than most local small retail.  But imagine if Sam Walton had called Tulsa home when he opened his first five and dime.  What if Michael Dell or Bill Gates had been Tulsans (yes I know not retail level)?  It's okay to chase national retailers, I just don't want that done at the loss of potential home runs from innovative minds which could be incubated in Tulsa if those minds had adequate funding to make that dream come true.

If Tulsa makes economic sense for Costco with a $2 mil incentive, it should make just as much sense without.  Are we chasing the prestige of saying we have Trader Joe's or Costco or are we really achieving enough net tax benefit from these national level developments to increase city services?  I think we need to watch much closer now every time the city says we need a new fee or incremental sales tax increase for more fire and police protection or to fund other city operations or every time they say we have to cut fire or police academy classes.  If they keep tacking on more fees to utility bills and permits or keep asking for sales tax increases that means sales taxes are not generating enough revenue even with all the new retail density we've attracted in the last 10 years.

What can I say?  I'm a home team guy.  I've worked for a Fortune 500 company and I've worked for local upstarts and local companies which have been a part of Tulsa's community for over half a century.  I prefer my life with the old Tulsa-based small business.

And there's the rub: We need to improve our demographics by keeping and retaining the 25-34 YPs.  We need more sales tax revenue too.  

Do 25-34 YPs want a more built up food truck court at the boathouse/amphitheater?  Do they want REI instead of volleyball courts?  Do they want to buy a lower price point coach handbag then put on their new Nikes and go for a run on the adjacent urban wilderness?  Do they want a walkable lifestyle with a cool loft downtown or a 3000 ft. house in Jenks or Bixby? Those are important things to consider.

And actually, I will get a chance to find out next month.  Our coalition was extended an invitation today to give a presentation at their April 21 meeting, I will be presenting it.  I'm truly interested to hear all viewpoints.  I want our city to do what we can to attract and retain our future leaders and visionaries instead of losing them to places like Austin, Denver, Portland, or wherever.  They last thing we need is a few more generations of Dewey's running our city, so I do value attracting and retaining the best visionaries.  If they want retail built up to the riverbanks, I have to remember what I value may be of no value to anyone else.  

I'm a 50'ish MAP not a YP, but I figure my wife and I don't do a very good job acting our age.  Honestly, a lot of my social viewpoints and ideas about development and what makes a city a great place to live have evolved in the last decade of my life.  I like to think I have the same values as that age group but realize my perspective and priorities might be somewhat different.

I have kids in or close to that demographic and I'm around YP's quite a bit.   I feel like I know their pulse, but this will be interesting to get some feedback.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 19, 2015, 11:57:45 PM
Quote from: Townsend on March 18, 2015, 01:47:44 PM
What in the F'ing F is that?


Isn't that the back patio of the hot dog place at 59th and Mingo....?      lol...



Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: rdj on March 20, 2015, 10:03:07 AM
Conan, you bring up great points.  I think there is a creative class that wants all the things you are pushing for.  I also believe there is a group of "YP's" (as an aside I hate that term) that are drawn to an area with the national retailers and more of a suburban lifestyle.  It is also a yin & yang, you need workforce but you also need jobs.  The people making the jobs decision (relocation that is) are very drawn to national chains.  Real estate firms working to bring employers to Tulsa don't lead their pitch with all the great local stuff, they lead with the items that make the pale, male and stale businessman and his wife comfortable.  That would be the national chains.

It is a tough, vicious, cycle that middle tier cities like Tulsa are stuck in.  I fear we will continue to see consolidation and flight into the larger metros and cities. I foresee a day when OKC is a part of the DFW trade area.  I could see high speed rail linking OKC and Dallas happening over OKC to Tulsa.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Bones013 on March 20, 2015, 10:24:08 AM
I think this would look better on the river: http://www.thrillist.com/drink/san-francisco/the-yard-shipping-container-bar-san-francisco
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 20, 2015, 10:54:12 AM
Quote from: Bones013 on March 20, 2015, 10:24:08 AM
I think this would look better on the river: http://www.thrillist.com/drink/san-francisco/the-yard-shipping-container-bar-san-francisco

This is being done in a densely populated area. This is in China Basin which used to be shipping docks and they started the rehab of this area in the mid to late 90's.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.774478,-122.390274,3a,75y,358.71h,88.01t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sco0Zi5kf_W8BC6_zy4ArMA!2e0?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.774478,-122.390274,3a,75y,358.71h,88.01t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sco0Zi5kf_W8BC6_zy4ArMA!2e0?hl=en)
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: ZYX on March 20, 2015, 11:25:23 AM
Quote from: rdj on March 20, 2015, 10:03:07 AM
Conan, you bring up great points.  I think there is a creative class that wants all the things you are pushing for.  I also believe there is a group of "YP's" (as an aside I hate that term) that are drawn to an area with the national retailers and more of a suburban lifestyle.  It is also a yin & yang, you need workforce but you also need jobs.  The people making the jobs decision (relocation that is) are very drawn to national chains.  Real estate firms working to bring employers to Tulsa don't lead their pitch with all the great local stuff, they lead with the items that make the pale, male and stale businessman and his wife comfortable.  That would be the national chains.

It is a tough, vicious, cycle that middle tier cities like Tulsa are stuck in.  I fear we will continue to see consolidation and flight into the larger metros and cities. I foresee a day when OKC is a part of the DFW trade area.  I could see high speed rail linking OKC and Dallas happening over OKC to Tulsa.

I agree. There are a whole lot of people that age group that are moving into new developments in Bixby, Jenks, BA, etc. I would argue that there are probably more people age 25-34 around here that prefer a suburban lifestyle than an urban one. However, as William has pointed out many times before, we offer almost nothing for the group who does want a nice, walkable inner city. We lose them to other cities. Also, there are a lot of people that prefer to live in the suburbs, but enjoy going downtown on a regular basis.  These people also want a better, more vibrant inner city.

This is completely off topic, but I think Tulsa would experience significant growth if TPS could be improved that it is no longer viewed as "sketchy," or incapable of matching the perceived quality of suburban districts. I personally know of several young families that would like to live in midtown but won't send their kids to TPS, and can't afford private school.

As far as this development goes, I don't think it makes any sense in the proposed location.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Dspike on March 20, 2015, 11:29:46 AM
"And there's the rub: We need to improve our demographics by keeping and retaining the 25-34 YPs.  We need more sales tax revenue too.  

Do 25-34 YPs want a more built up food truck court at the boathouse/amphitheater?  Do they want REI instead of volleyball courts?  Do they want to buy a lower price point coach handbag then put on their new Nikes and go for a run on the adjacent urban wilderness?  Do they want a walkable lifestyle with a cool loft downtown or a 3000 ft. house in Jenks or Bixby? Those are important things to consider."

Glad you can join us for the April meeting. Hope the whole issue hasn't already been resolved by then.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Conan71 on March 20, 2015, 11:46:31 AM
Quote from: Dspike on March 20, 2015, 11:29:46 AM
"And there's the rub: We need to improve our demographics by keeping and retaining the 25-34 YPs.  We need more sales tax revenue too.  

Do 25-34 YPs want a more built up food truck court at the boathouse/amphitheater?  Do they want REI instead of volleyball courts?  Do they want to buy a lower price point coach handbag then put on their new Nikes and go for a run on the adjacent urban wilderness?  Do they want a walkable lifestyle with a cool loft downtown or a 3000 ft. house in Jenks or Bixby? Those are important things to consider."

Glad you can join us for the April meeting. Hope the whole issue hasn't already been resolved by then.

I sure hope it has been resolved by then, it would make my life a whole lot less stressful.  ;)

I still believe we can have a really good forum on green space and recreation vs. development and economic growth needs.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: carltonplace on March 23, 2015, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: ZYX on March 20, 2015, 11:25:23 AM

This is completely off topic, but I think Tulsa would experience significant growth if TPS could be improved that it is no longer viewed as "sketchy," or incapable of matching the perceived quality of suburban districts. I personally know of several young families that would like to live in midtown but won't send their kids to TPS, and can't afford private school.

As far as this development goes, I don't think it makes any sense in the proposed location.

TPS has a giant perception problem, case in point: My niece and nephew and their TPS orchestra just played Carnegie Hall. They could not have done that if they were enrolled in Jenks or Owasso.

Agree that this truck yard proposal makes more sense in an unused urban area rather than arbitrarily stuck next to the river for the "river" mayor.
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: Conan71 on March 23, 2015, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: carltonplace on March 23, 2015, 07:53:24 AM
TPS has a giant perception problem, case in point: My niece and nephew and their TPS orchestra just played Carnegie Hall. They could not have done that if they were enrolled in Jenks or Owasso.

Agree that this truck yard proposal makes more sense in an unused urban area rather than arbitrarily stuck next to the river for the "river" mayor.

Remember he's also the "Job gettingest Mayor Tulsa has ever seen."  More retail! More retail!
Title: Re: The Truck Yard
Post by: LandArchPoke on June 21, 2015, 08:55:51 PM
Few more details available at the Frontier site:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/540/Ad0UiZ.png) (https://imageshack.com/i/f0Ad0UiZp)

http://www.tulsafrontier.com/big-changes-could-be-coming-to-arkansas-rivers-west-bank/

Apparently a group wants to build a pier out into the river with a restaurant on it, could be interesting.