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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: Stone on March 10, 2015, 12:18:25 PM

Title: Inflatable Dams
Post by: Stone on March 10, 2015, 12:18:25 PM
   

http://m.tulsaworld.com/newshomepage2/inflatable-dams-tapped-for-arkansas-river/article_5bd44f39-4962-504f-bb13-f5890f8a166e.html?mode=jqm
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 10, 2015, 01:13:46 PM
Somebody needs to inform Bynum and Flemming that inflatable bladder dams can and do burst like a balloon.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Rubberized-dam-breaks-at-Tempe-Town-Lake-98917614.html (http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Rubberized-dam-breaks-at-Tempe-Town-Lake-98917614.html)
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: Vision 2025 on March 10, 2015, 01:24:39 PM
The dams are not inflatable.  The dam structure will be concrete, the gates are made of curved Stainless Steel panels and are raised/lowered by adjusting the air pressure (low) in the lift bladders which are located on the downstream side of each individual gate which are a combination of full height (river bed to crest) or crest gates which are located along the top of fixed sections).  Overall the bladders are quite tough (1-inch think, Kevlar and various rubber compounds).  These are the very best type of gate for a river installation as they essentially lay flat when down (covering the bladder) to allow debris and sand passage.  Also, in the event of vandalism they are easily patched and the air supply can easily overcome leaks.  

Obermeyer pneumatic gates have been extensively utilized in river systems and have been proposed choice for the Arkansas River Low Water Dams for several years

If you want to see more http://www.obermeyerhydro.com/SpillwayGates (http://www.obermeyerhydro.com/SpillwayGates)
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: Vision 2025 on March 10, 2015, 01:26:55 PM
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 10, 2015, 01:13:46 PM
Somebody needs to inform Bynum and Flemming that inflatable bladder dams can and do burst like a balloon.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Rubberized-dam-breaks-at-Tempe-Town-Lake-98917614.html (http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Rubberized-dam-breaks-at-Tempe-Town-Lake-98917614.html)

This style of dam was NEVER considered for the Arkansas in any of the current planning.  Several years ago we visited Tempe Town Lake specifically to see that structure and meet with the operators.  It was obvious that style was not a fit for the Arkansas.
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: AquaMan on March 10, 2015, 01:28:03 PM
The Tempe bladder was 16 ft tall and was scheduled for replacing soon. It looks like the ones planned for the Arkansas are 3 feet tall and will be brand new. Not a good comparison I think.

These bladders are similar in operation to the lifts on tractor trailers, buses and other commercial vehicles. They withstand tremendous abuse and when the do fail are not only replaceable but merely put you in a default condition of what the river would have handled in the first place.

One of the better ideas floated for impounding the Arkansas, though for the life of me I can't figure out why it needs to be done to the entire river width.

Or...what he said above^
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: Breadburner on March 10, 2015, 01:29:12 PM
Those look nice....!!
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 10, 2015, 01:30:53 PM
Thanks for the education, makes sense.
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: guido911 on March 10, 2015, 07:09:22 PM
It at least sounds like the wheels are turning on some solutions for the river.
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: SXSW on March 10, 2015, 09:12:51 PM
Is it still the plan to build a larger dam near Sand Springs that would better regulate the water flow downstream, and then possibly these inflatable types in Jenks and Bixby?  What about Zink Dam, would it be retrofitted to be of this type too?

Something with a pedestrian bridge on top like the Big Dam Bridge in Little Rock would be cool
(http://www.littlerock.com/!userfiles/business-listings/lrcvb_img_sight_big_dam_bridge_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: sgrizzle on March 10, 2015, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: SXSW on March 10, 2015, 09:12:51 PM
Is it still the plan to build a larger dam near Sand Springs that would better regulate the water flow downstream, and then possibly these inflatable types in Jenks and Bixby?  What about Zink Dam, would it be retrofitted to be of this type too?

See original post, this would be used at all sites including zink dam
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/60s-spiderman-lol-im-not-even-reading.jpg)
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: Vision 2025 on March 11, 2015, 09:42:19 AM
Quote from: SXSW on March 10, 2015, 09:12:51 PM
Is it still the plan to build a larger dam near Sand Springs that would better regulate the water flow downstream, and then possibly these inflatable types in Jenks and Bixby?  What about Zink Dam, would it be retrofitted to be of this type too?

Something with a pedestrian bridge on top like the Big Dam Bridge in Little Rock would be cool
(http://www.littlerock.com/!userfiles/business-listings/lrcvb_img_sight_big_dam_bridge_lg.jpg)
Similar but different...in short a much less complex dam/gate structure, there will be ped/maintenance bridges at the new structures combined with the dams and oh and no barge traffic!

Sand Springs would be of the same base design and general gate configuration, just taller than those downstream so that it can provice more storage for utilization in a re-regulated release methodology.
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: DowntownDan on March 11, 2015, 10:18:41 AM
Whatever it takes to get it done.  If the engineers are good with it, I'm good with it.
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 11, 2015, 12:18:19 PM
So the goal is just to get several miniature Keystone Lakes in a line from Sand Springs to Tulsa....?

Since we are in what appears to be developing into long term drought, do we know if the Corps of Engineers will work with the cities along the way to release enough water to keep them all full?

Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: Vision 2025 on March 11, 2015, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on March 11, 2015, 12:18:19 PM
So the goal is just to get several miniature Keystone Lakes in a line from Sand Springs to Tulsa....?

Since we are in what appears to be developing into long term drought, do we know if the Corps of Engineers will work with the cities along the way to release enough water to keep them all full?


Yes, the plan for many years has been a series of small lakes. 

As for water releases from Keystone there are many needs to release water and the project is intended to function with those releases that regularly happen, even in the past two years of low flows.  That said but if the entire river system dries up and they dry up the navigation channel and make no water quality releases for wastewater treatment plant flows or to generate electricity at the dam or from any of the downstream power plants that pick up river water for cooling then the proposed lakes will be just as dry as everything else. 
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: Conan71 on March 11, 2015, 02:36:19 PM
Quote from: Vision 2025 on March 11, 2015, 02:13:56 PM
Yes, the plan for many years has been a series of small lakes. 

As for water releases from Keystone there are many needs to release water and the project is intended to function with those releases that regularly happen, even in the past two years of low flows.  That said but if the entire river system dries up and they dry up the navigation channel and make no water quality releases for wastewater treatment plant flows or to generate electricity at the dam or from any of the downstream power plants that pick up river water for cooling then the proposed lakes will be just as dry as everything else. 

When the lakes are dry, maybe we could use the inflatable dams for catapults.

(http://img.hisupplier.com/var/userImages/2013-03/27/131953198_Inflatable_water_catapult_blob_jumping_pillow_s.jpg)
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: Vision 2025 on March 11, 2015, 04:24:25 PM
I see a fund raising opportunity...
Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 11, 2015, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: Vision 2025 on March 11, 2015, 02:13:56 PM
Yes, the plan for many years has been a series of small lakes.  

As for water releases from Keystone there are many needs to release water and the project is intended to function with those releases that regularly happen, even in the past two years of low flows.  That said but if the entire river system dries up and they dry up the navigation channel and make no water quality releases for wastewater treatment plant flows or to generate electricity at the dam or from any of the downstream power plants that pick up river water for cooling then the proposed lakes will be just as dry as everything else.  


I guess that is part of what I am getting at - making a series of small Keystone Lakes would not seem to be that great a goal... guess it would have to do since we don't have a better source of water than that, but....


I haven't looked at Keystone release data for a while, but the level seems to be holding up now, so maybe that will work.  Since we are in the 5th year of drought... kinda surprising it isn't lower like some others.




Title: Re: Inflatable Dams
Post by: Conan71 on March 11, 2015, 08:49:30 PM
Quote from: Vision 2025 on March 11, 2015, 04:24:25 PM
I see a fund raising opportunity...

I've got first dibs.  Need to raise some money to buy some property just east of Highway 75 around 61st St.  ;)