This design concept was originally created by James Parker of TriArch Architecture in the East Village.
QuoteKnown by some as the cathedral district, to others it's just the parking district.
An idea that could someday change that has been gathering steam for the past year, ironically adding even more parking.
The designers, a group of local architects and design consultants, are presenting their designs for a multisport field and facility Wednesday to the Downtown Coordinating Council.
The design actually adds more parking space than is currently there but in a parking garage under a multiuse sports field, said Terrell Hoagland, director of sustainability at Jones Design Studio.
"They are not thrilled about the (surface) parking, but they need the parking," Hoagland said about the local businesses and churches. "The latest design actually increases their parking capacity by 30 percent."
The south side of downtown has been the focus of planners for years, hoping that someone would marry parking with business space on the same land mass. The area between Eighth and 12th streets from Boulder to Detroit avenues is filled with parking lots.
The parking sprawl is so bad, a national blog recognized Tulsa as home to the country's worst collection of surface lots.
In 2013, online voters on streetsblog.org looked at satellite photos of downtown parking zones, calling Tulsa out for its "parking crater" with the hope of inspiring change, according to the website.
Hoagland, alongside partners Kenton Grant, James Parker and Scott Pardee, have been designing their idea for more than a year.
They initially designed it in response to a 2014 Tulsa Young Professionals, or TYPros, Street CReD contest that called for conceptual designs to replace surface parking. It won.
"This has been an interesting process for us because none of us are developers," Grant said. "We don't have a pool of money to draw from."
Instead, the group has been winning awards for their design and putting it in front of stakeholders, including Tulsa Community College, which owns the parking lot the design was initially planned for.
The sports field would sit atop a parking garage on the parking lot south of TCC on 11th Street between Boston and Cincinnati avenues.
The facility would be built over 11th Street to have room for the field, which would also connect to office or retail space and a park area, Grant said.
As more and more stakeholders show interest, Grant said the project turns toward fundraising.
"A lot of that will drive where our money comes from," Grant said.
A ballpark figure for construction is from $20 million to $25 million, he said.
One of the selling points, Hoagland said, is the zero-impact design of the facility, which would have geo-thermal wells and solar panels to offset energy costs.
They are also pitching artificial turf for the field so that it could be low-cost maintenance, he said.
"There's plenty of seating, but the idea is not to necessarily create a pro-sports stadium," Hoagland said. "It's something that people can come and enjoy."
Hoagland said the idea is about more than eliminating surface parking. It's about adding something to downtown in an area that needs more retail and more draw.
"This is a way to capture and bring people in," Hoagland said. "We need something to bookend the other side of downtown."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/it-s-down-not-up-designers-pitch-multisport-project-to/article_044e29c3-72fd-58b8-9060-62bab383e984.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/it-s-down-not-up-designers-pitch-multisport-project-to/article_044e29c3-72fd-58b8-9060-62bab383e984.html)
That's an awfully long blank wall to walk past. Some retail would help.
I don't like closing off 11th between Boston and Cincinnati. I like the idea of burying parking but would prefer actual buildings constructed on top. The other idea presented that showed an innovation center/incubator affiliated with TCC and possibly OU/OSU would be better between 10th and 11th to keep 10th as the primary route through this part of downtown with residential on the lots surrounding it. No closing streets!
If we're going to build a soccer stadium why not build it on the parking lots east of OSU-Tulsa? Lots of surface parking there between the campus and railroad tracks. Any future development of the campus would take place on the lots between Elgin and Greenwood.
Quote from: SXSW on March 04, 2015, 11:48:24 AM
I don't like closing off 11th between Boston and Cincinnati. ... No closing streets!
This plan will not close off 11th street permanently, if that's what you mean. The garage and field will be over 11th street. 11th will just be a tunnel for that stretch.
Quote
If we're going to build a soccer stadium why not build it on the parking lots east of OSU-Tulsa?
Because the parking crater which this is addressing is in south downtown. OSU-Tulsa is a completely different part of downtown. Furthermore, TCC board of directors, who have rejected every previous proposal for these lots, approve of this plan.
I like the design and the use. I hope it happens.
Real grass please!
Underground parking is nice but the one below the courthouse didn't work so well.
Quote from: AquaMan on March 04, 2015, 12:47:34 PM
Real grass please!
Underground parking is nice but the one below the courthouse didn't work so well.
60's design - cars and people were smaller then. But it was poor design for the 60's, too.
That location would be excellent for a very deep multi-level parking facility. If a hole is gonna be dug, it may as well be deep enough to do some good...75 feet or more should give at least 4 or 5 levels with plenty of headroom for today's pickup trucks and big SUV's!! Make some underground "walking subway" facility north into the office districts, with the kind traveling ways larger airports have. That could be a great facility.
Could take this steps further - any new surface development must partner with a subsurface parking facility. When they built the Williams tower the hole was probably 60 to 75 ft deep - plenty of room for many layers of parking.
I like it.
Finally, some really innovative thinking!
I like it to. Btw, there is a retail component to the street level area, just not able to see it in the renders.
Know anyone who will fund it?
Don't get me wrong I like the idea and it's much better than the surface lot. The soccer field could get a lot of use but all of the activity would be above the street. Street level retail along Boston and 10th would be an improvement. It would be great to see the YMCA move from 5th & Main to a larger location on the south side of the field with a pool, gym, etc.
to recap...
A small group of local and well credentialed folks see ugly parking lots as an opportunity. They spend their own money and a year of their time on an idea. It is good enough to win a design competition and they are good enough to get the blessing of the community college (landowner) to proceed. It uses green technology like geothermal heat pumps and solar collectors to be a shining example of green building. They reach a point where they need to be serious about attracting investors so they get a story in the local newspaper.
If you read the comments on the newspaper and some of the ones on this forum, you would think they were madmen. Stupid idea, not enough pictures of retail, no to artificial grass, etc.
Everybody has a right to an opinion. My opinion is that the idea is great.
I don't like this, I don't like this at all.... The soccer field section is no better than this:
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/913/TKBJFn.png) (https://imageshack.com/i/pdTKBJFnp)
Get rid of the soccer field. 11th to 10th you are making a pedestrian walk along the picture above ^ and that is bad, bad, bad. Also, a tunnel over 11th street is terrible to pedestrian friendliness!!
The southern section I think looks great, they're just trying to force this playing field that is not in conducive to this site. Also, turf? How are they going to manage the run-off from an elevated turf field like this? And just fyi... turf can be just as expensive to maintain as real grass. Turf on an elevated surface like this will be about 160 degrees in the summers with no shading features, rendering it useless for most of June - September. Another thing I'm sure they have thought of is that with an elevated field like this you are going to have to put walls all around the field with high netting too. If you don't put walls (or a sturdy chain link fence), what's to say someone doesn't run past one of the sidelines, and falls off onto Boston Ave? You'll need nets along the entire perimeter to keep as many of the soccer balls, footballs, etc. from going into traffic or pedestrians below. How much of that sounds appealing to any pedestrian walking along Boston Ave?
Also, the costs are not realistic at all. They need to add an extra $10 million at least.
Guthrie Green cost $8 million to build and is 1/2 the size of this proposal. Park costs will be easily $16-20 million. Underground parking spaces are at least $25,000 a pop. Many can cost into the $30,000-$40,000 a space range depending on soil and other factors. So 200 spots would be a minimum $5,000,000 cost (@$25,000/space). 200 spaces would barely give back what is already there, and would not encourage TCC or Boston Ave Methodist to develop or sell any of the other lots around the park. Honestly, you're looking at a realistic cost of $40 million to build the park and enough parking to make the other surrounding surface parking lots redevelopable.
The Good
- Underground parking
- South section looks great! Shade trees, and it interacts with the sidewalk at street level!
- The geothermal wells, etc. features sound great too
My Advise
- Axe the soccer field - there are to many negatives to it and it's not suitable for this site what so ever. It's also going to add a tremendous amount to the construction cost to float this field over 11th Street.
- Carbon copy the south section to the north block, and turn 11th street into a brick paved street that can be easily closed off for events and it easy to the eye of the pedestrian to cross (would you rather walk across Main Street between 5th and 4th or walk under a dark tunnel for an entire block?)
- Add more retail, especially along Boston. Boston Avenue is one of Tulsa's biggest gems, and we need to figure out ways to entice development along it. Blank street walls are more destructive than the surface parking lots. Boston Ave could be Tulsa's version of Congress Ave in Austin that goes through the high-rise district and transitions into a more human scale area with funky businesses, retailers, and food places.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on March 04, 2015, 10:47:55 PM
to recap...
A small group of local and well credentialed folks see ugly parking lots as an opportunity. They spend their own money and a year of their time on an idea. It is good enough to win a design competition and they are good enough to get the blessing of the community college (landowner) to proceed. It uses green technology like geothermal heat pumps and solar collectors to be a shining example of green building. They reach a point where they need to be serious about attracting investors so they get a story in the local newspaper.
If you read the comments on the newspaper and some of the ones on this forum, you would think they were madmen. Stupid idea, not enough pictures of retail, no to artificial grass, etc.
Everybody has a right to an opinion. My opinion is that the idea is great.
The idea of a park and underground parking is great. What they have proposed is not though. Every design needs to be tweaked, and I think there is potential to make this great - the soccer field needs to go though. The cement walls along most of the sidewalks go against everything that is important to creating a vibrant street life. How is that any better than a surface parking lot?
Quote from: LandArchPoke on March 04, 2015, 10:53:57 PM
The idea of a park and underground parking is great. What they have proposed is not though. Every design needs to be tweaked, and I think there is potential to make this great - the soccer field needs to go though. The cement walls along most of the sidewalks go against everything that is important to creating a vibrant street life. How is that any better than a surface parking lot?
It is conceptual in nature at this point, not a final draft. Let's be patient. The first two stabs at some sort of attractive river development around Zink Lake met a dead end as well.
Finally someone had the courage and at least either the spare time or nominal funding to do this rendering for south downtown.
Can we all, at least, agree that innovative ideas for urban blight like surface parking lots and long vacant brown fields are superior to ideas to destroy urban wilderness and green space for retail development?
I've always thought that lot was ripe for an apartment building that would be attractive to the young TCC student. Incorporate parking into that facility.
This is obviously just a proposal that would need to be given more thought and subject to many changes if it were to become reality, but I like that people are talking about it. Personally, assuming investment is limited, I would rather see the momentum of infill and repurposing continue in Brady, Blue Dome, East Villiage, CBD, and BOK Center area. A soccer stadium downtown would be awsome, but I'd prefer it be in one of the established districts, maybe in the East Villiage where there are lots of open lots in need of something useful. The south end parking crater is going to take a monumental investment of new construction to transform it and you'll always be held back by TCC and the Churches who seem to like having suburban stadium style parking. Kudos for those who are fighting the good fight though and I wish you all the luck in the world.
Quote from: rdj on March 05, 2015, 07:51:57 AM
I've always thought that lot was ripe for an apartment building that would be attractive to the young TCC student. Incorporate parking into that facility.
I agree that housing in both the form of urban apartments and urban brownstone along with retail and service options and public green space would be perfect here. I salute the creative thinking and applaud that folks are looking for solutions to a serious surface parking issue, but I'm just not on board with the soccer stadium. I'd prefer a neighborhood that contributes to the street presence of Boston Ave rather than a big blank wall that detracts from it. Hopefully this will get the conversation started, I'm glad TCC is finally interested in reversing the damage they have caused.
I'd be interested to know TCC's future expansion needs in the area. Do they have a master plan? I had heard a few years ago that there was interest in moving their conference center and other functions near 41st & I-44 to downtown. If so where do they want that to go? They own a lot of land but somewhere around 10th. & Boston makes the most sense as they start to build outside the 9th/10th/Boston/Cincinnati block as we've seen with the Center for Creativity and the rehab clinic. Does TCC have any other health science projects planned?
Right now Boston acts as a pedestrian corridor for the campus as students go between buildings on both sides and from the parking lots to the south. I think you enhance that corridor by adding new campus buildings to the parking on the SW and SE corners at 10th & Boston and make that the center of campus. That also enhances 10th as a pedestrian corridor between Boston and Cincinnati. Build urban housing on the lots south and east of campus. Integrate green space into those projects, possibly even a playing field over parking as proposed here.
Quote from: TheArtist
Btw, there is a retail component to the street level area, just not able to see it in the renders.
I guess I missed that. Where does it say that?
Quote from: SXSWI'd be interested to know TCC's future expansion needs in the area. Do they have a master plan?
I would very much like to know that, too.
Quote from: gratherton on March 05, 2015, 04:02:25 PM
I guess I missed that. Where does it say that?
I would very much like to know that, too.
I don't know where it says that but I was at the DCC when they made their presentation. Right now they are trying to keep things flexible so that they can entertain different possibilities depending on potential funding. One neat thing they showed was using those large metal shipping containers as kind of "retail incubator" small shop type spaces for retail/restaurants on the street and second levels.
The shading canopies and roofing of the buildings would have solar panels, there would also be a geothermal component, the rain water would be filtered and reused on site. It would actually generate more power than was needed. Another neat feature was that the field could be cooled a little during the summer and kept well above freezing in the winter. What they are trying to do is get it so that once funded, it will generate enough money on it's own to keep up maintenance and do programming for the park and field.