I am being research lazy, but I am curious. Have we discussed which part of Tulsa has the most economic impact. I know that "economic impact" can mean many things, but I guess one place to start would be sales tax revenue. Is it downtown? 71st Mingo/restaurant/Mall row? Utica Square? Where are Tulsans gathering and spending the most money?
My first guess would be Canton, Ohio
I believe it is the council seat my wife is running for, district 7.
Her district is 41st to 101st, Memorial to Garnett. with two extra mile to Sheridan between 51st and 71st and a patch north to 31st and Mingo.
It includes Woodland Hills Mall, the 71st street corridor, almost all of the major car dealers, and hundreds of restaurants. I would love to find out sales tax collections by council district but believe this district has to be high on the list.
Economic development and redevelopment is a top priority for her. Sales tax revenue pays for city services and we can only cut so much out of a budget. Raising revenue has got to be a tool in a great city.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 26, 2014, 07:52:19 AM
I believe it is the council seat my wife is running for, district 7.
Her district is 41st to 101st, Memorial to Garnett. with two extra mile to Sheridan between 51st and 71st and a patch north to 31st and Mingo.
It includes Woodland Hills Mall, the 71st street corridor, almost all of the major car dealers, and hundreds of restaurants. I would love to find out sales tax collections by council district but believe this district has to be high on the list.
I would tend to agree solely on personal observation. It would seem that area is what should be further developed and money invested before anywhere else. It already has a built-in business structure and clientele.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 26, 2014, 07:52:19 AM
I believe it is the council seat my wife is running for, district 7.
If I could vote in her district, I'd support her.
Thank you guido.
The election is nine days away. There is a candidate forum tomorrow night at Hardesty Library.
I hope she wins on November 4th.
Quote from: guido911 on October 26, 2014, 06:27:42 PM
I would tend to agree solely on personal observation. It would seem that area is what should be further developed and money invested before anywhere else. It already has a built-in business structure and clientele.
What do you think could be done via the city to further develop the "business structure and clientele" of that area?
Quote from: TheArtist on October 26, 2014, 09:18:10 PM
What do you think could be done via the city to further develop the "business structure and clientele" of that area?
I am sure PlaniTulsa has it covered, amirite?
Quote from: guido911 on October 26, 2014, 09:25:13 PM
I am sure PlaniTulsa has it covered, amirite?
I vaguely recall a few of the potential things they had for that area, but I also remember something rather interesting when we were doing one of the "map exercises". There were hundreds of people in the auditorium, each sitting around a table with perhaps 10 people at each table. Most of the people at my table were from far south Tulsa, as were a large number in the room. But what I found surprising was how they genuinely kept looking at what could be done in areas like north Tulsa and downtown. When I went around and looked at other peoples maps (you were to put different stickers, which meant different things, in the areas you wanted them to go to represent the different types of growth etc. ) just about every one that I can recall, they also had focused on downtown, north Tulsa and the east and west sides. They later had many of the different groups go up in front of the audience and give a short "what we would like to see done an why" presentation for their map. At one time early on they had people raise their hands to show what part of town they were from, looked like there were far far more people there from South Tulsa than North Tulsa but, again, much of the focus was on the areas mentioned before. Curious don't you think? Actually, I remember two young girls who were at my table, late teens early 20s, who were from South Tulsa, typical, middle-upper middle class white girls,,, once we started negotiating on how to make our map, they kept talking about what could be done for north Tulsa and nearby downtown areas. Was not at all what I was expecting from them early on when we were making our introductions.
However, there were presentations at that and other meetings which showed how places like those around Woodland Hills mall could "evolve" utilizing different types of planning and zoning to become more "infilled" and urban. With the current zoning you can only do so much, but PlaniTulsa does have outlines that can be used for those areas if we want them to become "areas of change" or leave them alone as "areas of stability". I am not sure what Small Area Plans, are in the works for what areas of South Tulsa. I would sure like to see one for around the Promenade, I think it has a lot of potential for infill and growth.
I suppose I could look it up, but so could you, and again, I would really like to hear what some of your ideas are?
Perhaps the one thing I could impress is that calling 71st & Memorial "South Tulsa" really should be reevaluated. We have "districts" downtown that are mere city blocks separated by how much? Yards? Blocks? Calling everything south of, say, 41st street as "south Tulsa" is nuts.
That said, it should be no secret. My issue is that it seems there is a general mentality that Tulsa needs to be pouring money into the downtown area to be vibrant. We've done enough of that. We should be directing our resources to other areas, such as what we are seeing on HY 75. I would also like to see the 71st & Memorial intersection (especially on the NW and SW corners) improved. But hey, just me. I am living near an area overwhelmed by development right now, and judging by the traffic, businesses are booming.
Quote from: guido911 on October 27, 2014, 10:29:04 AM
Perhaps the one thing I could impress is that calling 71st & Memorial "South Tulsa" really should be reevaluated. We have "districts" downtown that are mere city blocks separated by how much? Yards? Blocks? Calling everything south of, say, 41st street as "south Tulsa" is nuts.
That said, it should be no secret. My issue is that it seems there is a general mentality that Tulsa needs to be pouring money into the downtown area to be vibrant. We've done enough of that. We should be directing our resources to other areas, such as what we are seeing on HY 75. I would also like to see the 71st & Memorial intersection (especially on the NW and SW corners) improved. But hey, just me. I am living near an area overwhelmed by development right now, and judging by the traffic, businesses are booming.
Supposed to be working this morning, so I'll keep this one short (for me, anyway...)
It depends upon what level you are looking at. I don't begrudge you (and all South Tulsans, and those from other areas) for wanting improvements in the specific areas in which you live. And I think we all agree that there are needed improvements all over town. But, and I may have posted similar before but can't remember, if the greater goal is to set up "Tulsa" as a vibrant destination city for better-educated, younger folk, etc, downtown and the greater city core is a higher priority than the Southern (or any direction) suburbs.
A person looking from outside looks at the "city proper" first when determining the relative attractiveness of a place. They look at:
OKC, not Moore,
KC, not Overland Park
Memphis, not Germantown
Ft Worth, not Richland Hills
etc, etc..
Dallas is about the only place relatively close where I can think of the general metroplex area perhaps being the bigger draw than downtown, but it's impossible to compare the scale of Dallas to Tulsa.
Now, once that initial comparison is done, then the prospect is going to possibly start looking at housing, suburbs, etc., and so we need to have some level of work going on there as well. But if we don't have an attractive and vibrant city core, Tulsa will be at a disadvantage when compared to other surrounding cities in terms of keeping our exiting talent and will suffer in attracting new outside people and businesses.
Quote from: guido911 on October 27, 2014, 10:29:04 AM
Perhaps the one thing I could impress is that calling 71st & Memorial "South Tulsa" really should be reevaluated. We have "districts" downtown that are mere city blocks separated by how much? Yards? Blocks? Calling everything south of, say, 41st street as "south Tulsa" is nuts.
That said, it should be no secret. My issue is that it seems there is a general mentality that Tulsa needs to be pouring money into the downtown area to be vibrant. We've done enough of that. We should be directing our resources to other areas, such as what we are seeing on HY 75. I would also like to see the 71st & Memorial intersection (especially on the NW and SW corners) improved. But hey, just me. I am living near an area overwhelmed by development right now, and judging by the traffic, businesses are booming.
Pure semantics but "South" Tulsa is south of Admiral. "North" Tulsa is north of Admiral. "East" Tulsa is east of Main. "West" Tulsa is west of Main. If 71st & Memorial isn't "South Tulsa" where is it? I'm really not sure what your obsession is with districts and general terms on where something is on the city grid, but hey, it's your OCD, not mine. ;D
The city has just started renovation of the intersection of 71st & Memorial. What part of all the infrastructure improvements along Memorial from 81st to 111th in the last 15 years is lost on you? Look at all the investment along Hwy 75 from 71st to Jenks. None of that has been neglected for the benefit of downtown development.
If you really want to look at an area which is being neglected for the sake of other parts, how about east Tulsa? There have been no major improvements or developments I can think of in years. Hopefully Horizon Group will get their mall built off I-44, that would be a huge shot in the arm for East Tulsa.
I think there are some area names for south Tulsa.
If I use the terms Woodland Hills people know where I mean. Same with Tulsa Hills, LaFortune, ORU, etc.
I could be dead wrong as I don't have numbers in front of me (and too lazy to look it up) but I would assert that from 8a-5p M-F downtown Tulsa has more employees and "economic" impact than any other square mile in the Tulsa MSA. Without the employers downtown Woodland Hills Mall would be featured on the desolate mall blogs. When coupled with the emerging (or if you visit downtown any given night you'd now it call it beyond that) nightlife and weekend activities there is no doubt downtown Tulsa is the largest economic driver in this region.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 27, 2014, 11:53:12 AM
If you really want to look at an area which is being neglected for the sake of other parts, how about east Tulsa? There have been no major improvements or developments I can think of in years. Hopefully Horizon Group will get their mall built off I-44, that would be a huge shot in the arm for East Tulsa.
Nailed it. I am most hopeful for East Tulsa (wherever that is). I often thought that is where some of the HY75 stuff should have gone. But hey, it's not my money.
As for OCD, darned right I got it when it comes to all these districts/neighborhoods. ;D It's a concept that I do not recall being exposed to before moving here. As I have written, I find it largely pretentious and highfalutin.
Quote from: guido911 on October 27, 2014, 05:36:16 PM
Nailed it. I am most hopeful for East Tulsa (wherever that is). I often thought that is where some of the HY75 stuff should have gone. But hey, it's not my money.
As for OCD, darned right I got it when it comes to all these districts/neighborhoods. ;D It's a concept that I do not recall being exposed to before moving here. As I have written, I find it largely pretentious and highfalutin.
Dude, my CDO (must be alphbetized) tells me the area where you grew up is full of districts these days. "District" is a pretty common development term used in metropolises we aspire to be like. In a few years people will be saying: "Hey, 2011 called, they want their 'district' back!"
Districts are popular because it is an attempt to give something a sense of place. In places like Tulsa that are trying to catch up to cities that have had a thriving "urban" core for decades these names have evolved naturally. Tulsa has examples of that, Cherry Street being a great example. In areas that are newer the marketing folks like to push it along. Broken Arrow Rose District being a great example.
I don't think having "districts" is a bad thing, it simply gives us a bit of an identity about where we come from.
I have never thought of them as being "uppity" or anything, they are really just useful, especially if your giving directions. Rather than saying, "Lets go eat someplace on 15th street or on Peoria" well, both of those streets are quite long and, especially like Peoria, have multiple "spots" (crosses through a cluster of restaurants in the Pearl, through Cherry Street, and Brookside) and being able to say Brookside or Cherry Street, gives a person an instant visual of where, and what is there.
Also beats saying, lets meet downtown, in perhaps the northish side, or perhaps the northish/westish side over in that area. Or if your the group of businesses in an area and want to get together to coordinate and have events, promotions, beautification efforts, cleaning, etc. to help get people to come to your businesses,,, it helps to have a name that people can again, easily identify more specifically where you are and what is there. "Come shop in the beautiful middle of downtown!" doesn't quite have the ring and fun interest of say "Come shop in the beautiful Deco District!"
Quote from: guido911 on October 27, 2014, 05:36:16 PM
Nailed it. I am most hopeful for East Tulsa (wherever that is). I often thought that is where some of the HY75 stuff should have gone. But hey, it's not my money.
As for OCD, darned right I got it when it comes to all these districts/neighborhoods. ;D It's a concept that I do not recall being exposed to before moving here. As I have written, I find it largely pretentious and highfalutin.
I asked the Tulsa water department decades ago about utilities going east and the "reason" I got at the time was the difficulty of installing water/sewer lines in the rock bed that part of town sits on. Just one of the fallacies to that is the west side development goes through rock in the Tulsa Hills, too.
The reason I suspect is more accurate is that city leaders at the time (70's and 80's) saw the housing developments were generally more 'modest' in scale that
were being built, and the more affluent were already moving south.
On further reflection....
Tulsa's economic core=
Philbrook & Gilcrease Museum and legacy Arts Institutions/ Tulsa Ballet, PAC
Beautiful historic neighborhoods with large trees
Woodward Park, Rose Garden, River Parks
Incredible, historic, downtown architecture
Legacy industries of Oil and Aeronautics
Legacy public facilities, Fairgrounds (pavilion, Expo Center,etc.) BOK Arena, Civic Center,
TU, ORU
Cherry Street, Brookside,
I could go on, but suffice it to say if you were to take just those things above away from this town, well, there would be no here, here. Without those things our city would be an incredibly banal, non-distinct, everywhere and no where, place. It's these things and more like them which make up Tulsa's real economic Core imho.
District 4 by far.
It has Downtown, Hillcrest and the Fairgrounds.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 27, 2014, 11:53:12 AM
Pure semantics but "South" Tulsa is south of Admiral. "North" Tulsa is north of Admiral. "East" Tulsa is east of Main. "West" Tulsa is west of Main. If 71st & Memorial isn't "South Tulsa" where is it? I'm really not sure what your obsession is with districts and general terms on where something is on the city grid, but hey, it's your OCD, not mine. ;D
The city has just started renovation of the intersection of 71st & Memorial. What part of all the infrastructure improvements along Memorial from 81st to 111th in the last 15 years is lost on you? Look at all the investment along Hwy 75 from 71st to Jenks. None of that has been neglected for the benefit of downtown development.
If you really want to look at an area which is being neglected for the sake of other parts, how about east Tulsa? There have been no major improvements or developments I can think of in years. Hopefully Horizon Group will get their mall built off I-44, that would be a huge shot in the arm for East Tulsa.
East Tulsa is just a victim of a really bad period of suburban style growth.
Quote from: guido911 on October 27, 2014, 10:29:04 AM
Perhaps the one thing I could impress is that calling 71st & Memorial "South Tulsa" really should be reevaluated. We have "districts" downtown that are mere city blocks separated by how much? Yards? Blocks? Calling everything south of, say, 41st street as "south Tulsa" is nuts.
That said, it should be no secret. My issue is that it seems there is a general mentality that Tulsa needs to be pouring money into the downtown area to be vibrant. We've done enough of that. We should be directing our resources to other areas, such as what we are seeing on HY 75. I would also like to see the 71st & Memorial intersection (especially on the NW and SW corners) improved. But hey, just me. I am living near an area overwhelmed by development right now, and judging by the traffic, businesses are booming.
Not sure why your perception is that the city is pouring money into downtown. The truth is that much more city funding is spent on south tulsa road projects than is spent in downtown. The lion's share of our Fix our Streets package and the 2012 3rd Penny projects are for streets south of downtown.
In the last several years I believe the public projects are as follows:
BOK CENTER V2025
BOULDER BRIDGE 2006 3RD PENNY (and V2025 and FEDERAL GRANT)
BOSTON AVE 2000 3RD PENNY
DENVER AVE 2006 3RD PENNY
Downtown Revolving Housing fund (2006 3rd Penny and V2025)
There are many other projects but they had alternate funding sources
CENTRAL LIBRARY - county
COUNT COURTHOUSE - county
Brady District Street Scaping - Brady TIF
Centennial Square - V2025
Quiet Zone - V2025 and Federal Funds
Central Park retention ponds - Home Depot TIF and Flood Mitigation funds
Jazz Hall of Fame - V2025
ONEOK PARK - Private funds and Downtown Assesment
Most of the other projects in downtown are all from private companies.
My guess would be south Tulsa, also IMO West Tulsa is ripe for big expanding in growth, west Tulsa is a hidden gem. The re-building of the Crystal shopping center seems to be a start. The west bank of the river & west jogging trail is ripe for growth & expanding
Quote from: carltonplace on November 04, 2014, 09:39:57 AM
Not sure why your perception is that the city is pouring money into downtown. The truth is that much more city funding is spent on south tulsa road projects than is spent in downtown. The lion's share of our Fix our Streets package and the 2012 3rd Penny projects are for streets south of downtown.
In the last several years I believe the public projects are as follows:
BOK CENTER V2025
BOULDER BRIDGE 2006 3RD PENNY (and V2025 and FEDERAL GRANT)
BOSTON AVE 2000 3RD PENNY
DENVER AVE 2006 3RD PENNY
Downtown Revolving Housing fund (2006 3rd Penny and V2025)
There are many other projects but they had alternate funding sources
CENTRAL LIBRARY - county
COUNT COURTHOUSE - county
Brady District Street Scaping - Brady TIF
Centennial Square - V2025
Quiet Zone - V2025 and Federal Funds
Central Park retention ponds - Home Depot TIF and Flood Mitigation funds
Jazz Hall of Fame - V2025
ONEOK PARK - Private funds and Downtown Assesment
Most of the other projects in downtown are all from private companies.
I wasn't really focusing on the source of the funding, only that the folks in Tulsa spent boatloads of cash in downtown development. Whether its 2025 or other tax was not my point.
And by south of downtown, what does that mean? Red, Me and T south of downtown?
Quote from: guido911 on November 04, 2014, 02:30:34 PM
I wasn't really focusing on the source of the funding, only that the folks in Tulsa spent boatloads of cash in downtown development. Whether its 2025 or other tax was not my point.
So your complaint is the overall amount of money spent in downtown regardless of public or private money? That this money would be better off spent elsewhere?
I tend to think that all areas of Tulsa should be smartly developed.
Quote from: guido911 on November 04, 2014, 02:30:34 PM
And by south of downtown, what does that mean? Red, Me and T south of downtown?
Yale was recently rehabbed curb to curb from 21st to 31st...this is south of downtown.
Quote from: carltonplace on November 04, 2014, 03:42:01 PM
So your complaint is the overall amount of money spent in downtown regardless of public or private money? That this money would be better off spent elsewhere?
I tend to think that all areas of Tulsa should be smartly developed.
Yale was recently rehabbed curb to curb from 21st to 31st...this is south of downtown.
Memorial from Admiral to 11th just wrapped up also.
Might be an exaggeration but not much of one...but the widening of Yale from 81st to 91st will trump all the street projects downtown in the last seven years.
Quote from: rdj on November 04, 2014, 04:53:32 PM
Might be an exaggeration but not much of one...but the widening of Yale from 81st to 91st will trump all the street projects downtown in the last seven years.
$31 million not counting the millions needed for the new intersections...for one mile.
Quote from: rdj on November 04, 2014, 04:53:32 PM
Might be an exaggeration but not much of one...but the widening of Yale from 81st to 91st will trump all the street projects downtown in the last seven years.
It seems absurd to be widening a street with that density from two to six lanes, at most it should be four through lanes between 44 and the turnpike, maybe some turn lanes in sections. There are some interchange designs that having it six lanes at the 44 exit does help the traffic flow but extending that for miles is like flushing money down the toilet.
Quote from: Snowman on November 05, 2014, 04:28:27 AM
It seems absurd to be widening a street with that density from two to six lanes, at most it should be four through lanes between 44 and the turnpike, maybe some turn lanes in sections. There are some interchange designs that having it six lanes at the 44 exit does help the traffic flow but extending that for miles is like flushing money down the toilet.
The dirt work and and utility moves should be done for 6 lanes but paving for 4 lanes should be sufficient for a while. Yale needs to be 4 lanes all the way to 121st.
Then Delaware / 121st needs to be 4 lanes too. Yep, I want the bridge near Yale but even without that the roads need to be widened. There is enough new housing still in Tulsa City limits to make that worthwhile. And it's getting worse.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 05, 2014, 07:29:25 AM
Yale needs to be 4 lanes all the way to 121st.
Then Delaware / 121st needs to be 4 lanes too. There is enough new housing still in Tulsa City limits to make that worthwhile. And it's getting worse.
No way that's needed. And I drive that area of Yale every day.
Is the bridge still in the works?
Quote from: Townsend on November 05, 2014, 09:51:32 AM
No way that's needed. And I drive that area of Yale every day.
What time of day?
It's not as bad as Memorial but south of the turnpike to 101st and somewhat to 111th could use some help. I assume the work around the elementary school at 101st helped. I only get that way occasionally. The hill between 81st and 91st is just flat dangerous and no fun since the 70s.
QuoteIs the bridge still in the works?
I haven't heard anything recently but I doubt the move will ever completely die. I would like to see an alternate to Memorial to get to Bixby, admittedly for somewhat selfish reasons. I also think that without the bridge that commercial development south of the river would eventually take away from Tulsa what they could get with easier access. Yale is an arterial, not a housing addition residential road.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 05, 2014, 12:40:44 PM
What time of day?
It's not as bad as Memorial but south of the turnpike to 101st and somewhat to 111th could use some help. I assume the work around the elementary school at 101st helped. I only get that way occasionally. The hill between 81st and 91st is just flat dangerous and no fun since the 70s.
Rush hours on the weekdays.
I really doubt the residents on South Yale will allow that kind of expansion without a big fight.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on November 04, 2014, 09:56:51 PM
$31 million not counting the millions needed for the new intersections...for one mile.
That development will be a mess.
Have there been any releases of diagrams/maps of the 81st to 91st project? I'm curious how many houses are getting knocked out, if they are going completely straight through or still having some curvature to the roadway, etc ? And of course there shall be soundwalls. Lots and lots of soundwalls.
Quote from: Townsend on November 05, 2014, 01:04:12 PM
Rush hours on the weekdays.
Be glad you are not trying to navigate Memorial. Even Sat and Sun around noon is horrible.
QuoteI really doubt the residents on South Yale will allow that kind of expansion without a big fight.
And they probably have enough money/influence to win regardless of whether or not it would be good for Tulsa.
If I had had the $, all the housing over here would have been at least 1/2 acre lots. Same thing for south of the river that must use Memorial or Elwood to get to Tulsa.
Quote from: Townsend on November 05, 2014, 01:04:12 PM
Rush hours on the weekdays.
I really doubt the residents on South Yale will allow that kind of expansion without a big fight.
They didn't learn anything from the Creek Turnpike fiasco??
Creek was planned as free road. So many fools around 96th protested it that ODOT just turned it over to OTA and it was built quickly! They knew when they moved there that a road was planned, so no legitimate grounds for complaint. Same thing on south Yale....if a person and 10,000 of their closest buddies move into an area, the roads will be widened.
Bunch of danged social engineering, big government spending, free market hating, central government intrusion loving liberals.
Where are the conservatives when you need them? Why not get rid of the "forced march to suburbia" style zoning and let the free market do it's thing? Why not allow for more density, aka more businesses and homes in an area paying for X amount of roads versus the, less density zoning with fewer people/businesses paying for more roads formula? Why have the government, liberally, build more and wider roads leading to "more stuff" further away, when you can allow private enterprise build the "more stuff" right there?
If private enterprise want's to build a bridge on their property let them, if they want to widen the road, let them do that as well. Keep the government out of it.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/urbs/the-conservative-case-against-the-suburbs/
Quote from: TheArtist on November 05, 2014, 07:56:46 PM
Bunch of danged social engineering, big government spending, free market hating, central government intrusion loving liberals.
Where are the conservatives when you need them? Why not get rid of the "forced march to suburbia" style zoning and let the free market do it's thing? Why not allow for more density, aka more businesses and homes in an area paying for X amount of roads versus the, less density zoning with fewer people/businesses paying for more roads formula? Why have the government, liberally, build more and wider roads leading to "more stuff" further away, when you can allow private enterprise build the "more stuff" right there?
If private enterprise want's to build a bridge on their property let them, if they want to widen the road, let them do that as well. Keep the government out of it.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/urbs/the-conservative-case-against-the-suburbs/
Suburbia actually started before the automobile became so widely owned. Public transportation allowed people to live farther from work than walking distance. Small shopping areas popped up in support of new housing.
My neighborhood when a kid:
http://goo.gl/maps/cjcov
The next trolley stop:
http://goo.gl/maps/EuiN0
This didn't happen at every trolley stop but Transit Oriented Development often included businesses.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 05, 2014, 11:13:41 PM
Suburbia actually started before the automobile became so widely owned. Public transportation allowed people to live farther from work than walking distance. Small shopping areas popped up in support of new housing.
My neighborhood when a kid:
http://goo.gl/maps/cjcov
The next trolley stop:
http://goo.gl/maps/EuiN0
This didn't happen at every trolley stop but Transit Oriented Development often included businesses.
Unfortunately, even a lot of what you show there would be illegal in Tulsa. We have big government intrusion, social engineering, forced suburbia on steroids,,, and nobody bats an eye about it.
Quote from: TheArtist on November 06, 2014, 08:00:29 AM
Unfortunately, even a lot of what you show there would be illegal in Tulsa.
I agree and that needs to be fixed in the appropriate areas.
The point is that although the automobile gets most of the blame for suburbia, public transit enabled the beginnings of suburbia in the late 19th and early 20th century.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 06, 2014, 12:41:47 PM
I agree and that needs to be fixed in the appropriate areas.
The point is that although the automobile gets most of the blame for suburbia, public transit enabled the beginnings of suburbia in the late 19th and early 20th century.
Absolutely, and I really have nothing against suburban development per say, it can be a good part of a healthy economy and growth pattern, especially if it's done in a way that allows it to evolve in time to become more pedestrian/transit friendly if an area may want or need that later. But just as we promote suburban style development, I can't imagine why we wouldn't also, allow, promote and zone for good urban development. Having more urban development would actually alleviate some of the sprawl element to suburban development. We are far along enough with this "auto centric development" trend, that isn't going to go away, to have a good amount of knowledge to enable good zoning policies for both (urban and suburban development patterns) which would allow for a more natural, flexible and productive "ebb and flow" of demographic trends and desires.
The Fallin administration has done alot to bring in many different kinds of business to our state so that Oklahoma is not a one industry state anymoe. Tulsa's old economic core of oil could be getting a big shot in the arm with the new republican senate, they have plans to bring in the Keystone Pipeline, many democrats in the senate also favor the Keystone Pipeline because of the jobs it will make, plus study after study showed that the Keystone will not harm a thing. The republican Senate (without Harry Reid blocking it anymore) will now have the votes to over-ride an Obama veto. I wonder if this election has anything to do with the big fall in oil prices, Texas has gasoline selling for $2.41 a gallon. The economy is looking good for Tulsa and the state.
Quote from: sauerkraut on November 07, 2014, 10:31:37 AM
The Fallin administration has done alot to bring in many different kinds of business to our state so that Oklahoma is not a one industry state anymoe. Tulsa's old economic core of oil could be getting a big shot in the arm with the new republican senate, they have plans to bring in the Keystone Pipeline, many democrats in the senate also favor the Keystone Pipeline because of the jobs it will make, plus study after study showed that the Keystone will not harm a thing. The republican Senate (without Harry Reid blocking it anymore) will now have the votes to over-ride an Obama veto. I wonder if this election has anything to do with the big fall in oil prices, Texas has gasoline selling for $2.41 a gallon. The economy is looking good for Tulsa and the state.
Must. Not. Reply. ... Aurgh!
I can handle an opinion that doesn't make sense, but I can't handle blatant faulty logic. Your other post, about this election having been a referendum on Obama? Fair enough, and probably to a great degree true. (whether that emotion was/is valid or not is debatable, but it definitely was there.) The piece above about the Keystone pipeline and the Senate being able to override? I doubt it, but OK for now. But this makes no sense:
I wonder if this election has anything to do with the big fall in oil prices, Texas has gasoline selling for $2.41 a gallon. The economy is looking good for Tulsa and the state.If people actually paid attention to the numbers, including oil prices, the election would not have gone the way it did. Obama has been president for six years, and we get a big fall in oil prices. The Pres (right or wrong) gets blame or credit for the economy and all things associated. Obama should be reveling in this drop in oil prices and taking credit, and in most cases he'd be rockin' just on that issue alone. Also, the fall in oil prices illustrated (at least in theory) a drop in demand for gas. This drop in demand would argue against further pipeline development, as obviously it's not needed if prices are dropping.
This election was about emotion, not logic. But to some degree, aren't they all?
Quote from: sauerkraut on November 07, 2014, 10:31:37 AM
The Fallin administration has done alot to bring in many different kinds of business to our state so that Oklahoma is not a one industry state anymoe. Tulsa's old economic core of oil could be getting a big shot in the arm with the new republican senate, they have plans to bring in the Keystone Pipeline, many democrats in the senate also favor the Keystone Pipeline because of the jobs it will make, plus study after study showed that the Keystone will not harm a thing. The republican Senate (without Harry Reid blocking it anymore) will now have the votes to over-ride an Obama veto. I wonder if this election has anything to do with the big fall in oil prices, Texas has gasoline selling for $2.41 a gallon. The economy is looking good for Tulsa and the state.
The reason Oklahoma is doing well, and always has done well IS one industry - petroleum. So yes, we are for the most part still a "one industry" state - with a large side dish of agriculture. If oil were to go away, the state would be in major trauma - life support type trauma.
Reality moment for sauer;
The drop in price of oil is obviously due to Obama's policies and show just how truly excellent they have been for the nation!!
Now for some real reality for the rest of the world;
I have a suspicion that there have been background efforts by the various powers that be with vested interest in the situation to make the price go down as part of the pressure on Russia to stand down from Ukraine. I read that it takes an oil price of somewhere near $105 a barrel for them to support the kind of activities they have been indulging in the area. At $80, notice how Russia ordered all their troops back to barracks that were on Ukraine border?? This happened a few weeks ago.
And I also read Saudi raised production about that time by about another million barrels a day.... they literally DO have the 'pumping power' to ensure this type of swing....
Pretty good strategic move - if it was a conscious effort....
Good thing we have Obama to understand the world political scene and work diligently to use all the tools available to help what was becoming a very ugly situation!! Isn't it, sauer...??
The only dangerous part of the hill on Yale between 81st and 91st is where you have three or four lanes merging into one. For $31M you could have 238 miles of protected bike lanes. You tell me which of these two options makes a city more attractive to live in...
Quote from: davideinstein on November 07, 2014, 03:57:56 PM
The only dangerous part of the hill on Yale between 81st and 91st is where you have three or four lanes merging into one. For $31M you could have 238 miles of protected bike lanes. You tell me which of these two options makes a city more attractive to live in...
238 miles of protected bike lanes doesn't provide a big construction job for some company that most likely has someone's ear.
It wouldn't provide easier access to the retail centers on either side of the hill.
It wouldn't open Yale up to what will most likely become a 4 to 6 lane access from 101st and Yale heading North to Tulsa.
Quote from: Townsend on November 07, 2014, 04:25:58 PM
It wouldn't provide easier access to the retail centers on either side of the hill.
If you can't find what you want at Fresh Market, you can (more easily) pop over the hill and go to Whole Paycheck. Or vs.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 07, 2014, 05:36:11 PM
If you can't find what you want at Fresh Market, you can (more easily) pop over the hill and go to Whole Paycheck. Or vs.
On the bike lane?
Quote from: Townsend on November 08, 2014, 10:07:25 AM
On the bike lane?
Oops. On the widened car lanes over the hill.