http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/artsandentertainment/what-the-ale-new-brewpub-going-in-by-oneok-field/article_cb9e6b4d-3e95-5bf0-beb3-fb78e054a068.html
What the Ale: New brewpub going in by ONEOK field
Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 2:41 pm
BY TOM GILBERT and SCOTT CHERRY Chief Photographer and World Scene Writer | 0 comments
The founder a Tulsa brewery and and the man who helped revitalize downtown with the McNellie's Group restaurants are joining forces to start a brewpub. Eric Marshall and Elliot Nelson will open a sports bar and brewpub by ONEOK Field in spring or summer of next year, Marshall said.
The McNellie's website had this post up today:
"Excited to be working on a sportsbar and brewpub by ONEOK Field. Eric Marshall overseeing the beer. Coming Spring/Summer 2015. Get excited, I know we are. We've been talking about it for 4 years and it's finally happening! Any name ideas? "Front Office" is the favorite right now with "Wheelhouse" and "Elgin Park" as close seconds."
This is exciting news. The area around the park has been growing and this is just another reason to go downtown. Looking forward to the new endeavor!
So.. where exactly?
Awesome!
I had heard the GreenArch building at one time, but not sure that is the case.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 13, 2014, 03:51:27 PM
So.. where exactly?
QuoteThe planned location is right across the street from the ONEOK field ticket windows in an existing building. Marshall Brewing Company's brewmaster Eric Marshall will be handling the brewery part of the project. "We will have 4-6 house beers brewed on premises that are 3.2% ABW (Alcohol by weight) and have numerous other beers that are regular strength," Marshall said. "The production size will be a 7-10 barrel system."
Guessing it is this red building (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tulsa,+OK/@36.160358,-95.98916,3a,75y,190.41h,88.62t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOB5BY35a__YCoTgsbINS6Q!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x87b692b8ddd12e8f:0xe76910c81bd96af7)
I was wrong. Old Gates Hardware Building. 216 N Elgin. I believe this was known as Curly's bar one time. Saw a few bands there when I moved to Tulsa in the early 2000's.
I'd love to see some rooftop seating if the building allows for it. Or at least some outdoor seating facing Brady.
So this sounds like direct competition with Lucky's but maybe not? Also, I thought brewpubs were illegal in OK. Or are they just not allowed to serve food? This sounds great though!!
Quote from: bacjz00 on August 13, 2014, 06:57:24 PM
So this sounds like direct competition with Lucky's but maybe not? Also, I thought brewpubs were illegal in OK. Or are they just not allowed to serve food? This sounds great though!!
I believe the main requirement is they are limited to 3.2 beer.
They can brew and serve 3.2 beer.
Quote from: rdj on August 13, 2014, 08:21:43 PM
They can brew and serve 3.2 beer.
Once again. ABLE sucks.
Is this the "Leftys" in GreenArch
Edit: oops lol
Quote from: LeGenDz on August 13, 2014, 09:24:32 PM
Do is this the "Leftys" in GreenArch
Can has sports beer?
Quote from: Hoss on August 13, 2014, 09:07:42 PM
Once again. ABLE sucks.
Try a few of Prairie's 3.2% ABW beers they are now serving pints of and filling growlers with at their brewery. It will make you think twice about the limitations of brewing at such a low alcohol content. Far cry from MillerBudCoors piss water.
Oh, and BTW, there's a new place for you to road trip for good beer: Macadoodles on Rangeline Road in Joplin. I stopped in yesterday on my way back from some business in Missouri. Not only New Belgium, but Stone, Odell, Shlaffly, Mother's, O'Fallon, Breckenridge, etc. ad nauseum. It's like every brand you cannot find in Oklahoma plus they support the Missouri microbreweries we still can't get in Oklahoma. My poor car needs new rear springs now.
Quote from: BKDotCom on August 13, 2014, 09:43:30 PM
Can has sports beer?
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6750199552/hA85F8354/)
Quote from: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 09:26:35 AM
Try a few of Prairie's 3.2% ABW beers they are now serving pints of and filling growlers with at their brewery. It will make you think twice about the limitations of brewing at such a low alcohol content. Far cry from MillerBudCoors piss water.
Oh, and BTW, there's a new place for you to road trip for good beer: Macadoodles on Rangeline Road in Joplin. I stopped in yesterday on my way back from some business in Missouri. Not only New Belgium, but Stone, Odell, Shlaffly, Mother's, O'Fallon, Breckenridge, etc. ad nauseum. It's like every brand you cannot find in Oklahoma plus they support the Missouri microbreweries we still can't get in Oklahoma. My poor car needs new rear springs now.
Agreed about Macadoodles. I have been to the store in Branson. Tried to make the Joplin store one evening while driving back from a business trip, didn't make it in time. Missouri has several great microbreweries. Particularly, St Louis. Paste Magazine has started writing about booze. Nice post a few weeks about craft beer. Actually mentioned Prairie. http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/lists/2014/08/top-5-craft-breweries-to-watch.html
Tulsa World article today confirms that it's the building directly across from the ticket office that is red on the side facing the ballpark. It also says that Lefty's on Greenwood is set to open in the fall, so that's two sports bars within a few blocks of each other. I have no doubt both can be successful. The brewpub is almost guaranteed success considering Elliot Nelson's track record and Marshall's sustained success over more than five years. No idea who is in charge of Lefty's. It's pretty easy to make missteps and fail in the restaurant biz.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 09:26:35 AM
Try a few of Prairie's 3.2% ABW beers they are now serving pints of and filling growlers with at their brewery. It will make you think twice about the limitations of brewing at such a low alcohol content. Far cry from MillerBudCoors piss water.
Yep. If your recipe is targeting 3.2, then you can get the taste and flavor right before you ship.
Others don't want to create new recipes, so they just water down the beer to get the magical number. Pretty simple concept.
Quote from: rdj on August 14, 2014, 09:39:38 AM
Agreed about Macadoodles. I have been to the store in Branson. Tried to make the Joplin store one evening while driving back from a business trip, didn't make it in time. Missouri has several great microbreweries. Particularly, St Louis. Paste Magazine has started writing about booze. Nice post a few weeks about craft beer. Actually mentioned Prairie. http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/lists/2014/08/top-5-craft-breweries-to-watch.html
I visit the one in Springdale, AR monthly
Quote from: BKDotCom on August 14, 2014, 10:40:54 AM
I visit the one in Springdale, AR monthly
Where's it located in Springdale, just so I know when we head over that way.
Don't forget to get growler fills at the Ozark Beer brewery in Rogers. They are doing some great things there!
Further clarification - This isn't Lefty's :)
New brewpub across from ONEOK Field planned to open next year
http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/food/new-brewpub-across-from-oneok-field-planned-to-open-next/article_cb9e6b4d-3e95-5bf0-beb3-fb78e054a068.html
QuoteThe founder of a Tulsa brewery and the man who helped revitalize downtown with the McNellie's Group restaurants are joining forces to start a brewpub.
Eric Marshall and Elliot Nelson are planning a sports bar and brewpub by ONEOK Field in spring or summer of next year.
The planned location is across the street from the ONEOK Field ticket windows in the old Gates Hardware building, 216 N. Elgin Ave.
"We are just in the early stages of development," Marshall said. "Elliot found the spot and had the concept and all of that. My role is to handle the brewery side of things.
"We will have four to six house beers brewed on premises that are 3.2 percent ABW (alcohol by weight) and have numerous other beers that are regular strength. The production size will be a 7-10 barrel system.
"It's a cool building. I walked through it yesterday, and it's exciting picturing the brewpub in there. Elliot and I have a great working relationship, and I'm excited to be part of the project."
Nelson, whose group already has six restaurants in the downtown area, said he is planning a special menu for the brewpub.
"It will be a broad menu, and it will vary from what we serve at McNellie's Pub," he said. "We're really excited to be part of that neighborhood. We've had a lot of requests to put in a good sports bar downtown."
According to the McNellie's Facebook page, a name for the brewpub has not been determined. The posting reads:
"Any name ideas? 'Front Office' is the favorite right now with 'Wheelhouse' and 'Elgin Park' as close seconds."
The brewpub is just one of a number of developments in the ONEOK Field area underway or planned for the future.
A restaurant and pub, Lefty's on Greenwood, 10 N. Greenwood Ave., is slated to open in the fall. It is on the southeast corner adjacent to the ballpark.
Among other projects are two hotels, TownePlace Suites on Elgin Avenue on the southwest corner from the ballpark and Holiday Inn Express & Suites, which will take a portion of the block bounded by Archer Street, Detroit Avenue, Elgin Avenue and the railroad tracks.
With the two hotels coming, should be a smashing success. Curious with it's proximity to McNellie's how much this might cannibalize business from their tap room.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 01:54:22 PM
With the two hotels coming, should be a smashing success. Curious with it's proximity to McNellie's how much this might cannibalize business from their tap room.
I think there is still plenty of room for expansion downtown without cannibalization, especially with residential and hotel expansions meaning more people to serve. The two also appear to be offering different things. I would doubt that the Marshall's 3.2 on-site beers will be available at McNellies and I doubt McNellies' massive selection will be available at the new place. The new place also appears to be branding itself as a dedicated sports bar so people will go to watch games. McNellies will still be more of an Irish-themed neighborhood social pub with a massive beer selection. I think the sports bar theme will be successful because there just aren't any dedicated sports bars in downtown.
Quote from: DowntownDan on August 14, 2014, 02:52:12 PM
I think there is still plenty of room for expansion downtown without cannibalization, especially with residential and hotel expansions meaning more people to serve. The two also appear to be offering different things. I would doubt that the Marshall's 3.2 on-site beers will be available at McNellies and I doubt McNellies' massive selection will be available at the new place. The new place also appears to be branding itself as a dedicated sports bar so people will go to watch games. McNellies will still be more of an Irish-themed neighborhood social pub with a massive beer selection. I think the sports bar theme will be successful because there just aren't any dedicated sports bars in downtown.
Agreed.
Joe Momma's and/or Fassler have kind of been the de facto "sports bars" downtown. I hope they really do make this place a real dedicated sports bar, with tons of large TVs, NFL Sunday Ticket, etc.
So they can't serve anything over 3.2%?
Quote from: davideinstein on August 14, 2014, 07:12:49 PM
So they can't serve anything over 3.2%?
As a brewpub, no...however, I can seem to remember brewpubs being allowed to sell beer to walkups at higher than 3.2...if my memory hasn't escaped me. I thought Coach's in Bricktown did that way back.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 11:56:57 AM
Where's it located in Springdale, just so I know when we head over that way.
A bit to the north as you head to Rogers/Bentonville (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Macadoodles/@36.1857318,-94.1825942,14z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x87c9132d9fc6b31b:0xb35322b3ec863d62)
Macadoodles in Springdale. When you get to 540 on 412 take the turn north on540 then take the first exit. Go left over the freeway and bingo. You are there.
Quote from: joiei on August 14, 2014, 09:26:59 PM
Macadoodles in Springdale. When you get to 540 on 412 take the turn north on540 then take the first exit. Go left over the freeway and bingo. You are there.
I wonder if the OHP is there. The real Keystone Cops used to sit by liquor stores in New Jersey and Maryland, especially after PA raised the liquor tax, and radio back to their comrades the license tags of PA customers. That came to an end when the FCC busted them for radio use out of their jurisdiction. At least that is the story I heard.
Quote from: joiei on August 14, 2014, 09:26:59 PM
Macadoodles in Springdale. When you get to 540 on 412 take the turn north on540 then take the first exit. Go left over the freeway and bingo. You are there.
Should be same breweries represented at Missouri locations, more, or fewer? I was impressed at the selection in Joplin, of all places. Back in the day, Joplin was simply a place to find "6 point" Busch within 40 miles of Grand Lake. Of course we all know now "6 point" of anything BudCoorsMiller is a lie.
I'm pretty sure they can still serve regular beers that they've purchased through wholesale/distributors. They just can't serve anything that was brewed on-site directly unless it's 3.2 or below.
Anyone know if the Hicktown Brewery which opened in Owasso brews on site or do they even serve any of Hicktown's beers?
Traditional stouts and porters are a lower ABV, so even a 3.2% by weight (4.0 ABV) version isn't that far off the mark when many porters and stouts are in the 4.5 to 5% ABV range. Guiness is listed on various sites as between 4.0 to 4.3 ABV as an example. APA is another style which lends itself to a good session beer.
Quote from: DowntownDan on August 15, 2014, 10:28:28 AM
I'm pretty sure they can still serve regular beers that they've purchased through wholesale/distributors. They just can't serve anything that was brewed on-site directly unless it's 3.2 or below.
They can so long as they have a liquor license.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 11:56:57 AM
Where's it located in Springdale, just so I know when we head over that way.
Don't forget to get growler fills at the Ozark Beer brewery in Rogers. They are doing some great things there!
Didn't make it Ozark Beer when I was in NWA recently. Did make Saddlebock Brewery, Core Brewing & Distilling and Apple Blossom Brewing Company. All were good. My favorite was probably Apple Blossom. It is actually a brew pub and the only place you can buy their beers. The food was very good. Core was my least favorite beer, but my favorite atmosphere. Had a great time with the crew and enjoyed several highly competitive games of ping pong.
Quote from: rdj on August 15, 2014, 11:46:08 AM
Didn't make it Ozark Beer when I was in NWA recently. Did make Saddlebock Brewery, Core Brewing & Distilling and Apple Blossom Brewing Company. All were good. My favorite was probably Apple Blossom. It is actually a brew pub and the only place you can buy their beers. The food was very good. Core was my least favorite beer, but my favorite atmosphere. Had a great time with the crew and enjoyed several highly competitive games of ping pong.
We are heading over to ride our mountain bikes at Hobbs on Sunday, will have to keep those places in mind. Also requires a stop at AQ Chicken House. Best fried chicken I've had aside from my wife's.
Quote from: Jeff P on August 14, 2014, 05:04:01 PM
Agreed.
Joe Momma's and/or Fassler have kind of been the de facto "sports bars" downtown. I hope they really do make this place a real dedicated sports bar, with tons of large TVs, NFL Sunday Ticket, etc.
Those places do an okay job but mostly for single events like Thunder games or the World Cup where everyone is watching the same thing. Otherwise, their TV's are just kind of background. I like the idea of a dedicated sports bar where anyone can see any game they want and have enough TV's to accommodate single requests, such as a Boston fan wanting to see a Sox game, or in my case, wanting to see a Dallas Mavericks game while an OKC game is also on.
Interesting. Exciting project.
Didn't think the Oklahoma statutes would allow for a "mixed bev/strong beer/caterer lic" to be granted if any of the owners had lic to manufacture or distribute booze...
Quote from: DowntownDan on August 15, 2014, 12:11:22 PM
Those places do an okay job but mostly for single events like Thunder games or the World Cup where everyone is watching the same thing. Otherwise, their TV's are just kind of background. I like the idea of a dedicated sports bar where anyone can see any game they want and have enough TV's to accommodate single requests, such as a Boston fan wanting to see a Sox game, or in my case, wanting to see a Dallas Mavericks game while an OKC game is also on.
Yeah that's what I meant... those to places kind of fill the void because there is no real "dedicated" sports bar downtown...
That's why I'm hoping they do it right and have lots of large TVs to accommodate exactly what you're talking about.
Quote from: brunoflipper on August 15, 2014, 11:10:35 PM
Interesting. Exciting project.
Didn't think the Oklahoma statutes would allow for a "mixed bev/strong beer/caterer lic" to be granted if any of the owners had lic to manufacture or distribute booze...
a brewpub is different from a manufacturing facility. Different rules.
Quote from: brunoflipper on August 15, 2014, 11:10:35 PM
Interesting. Exciting project.
Didn't think the Oklahoma statutes would allow for a "mixed bev/strong beer/caterer lic" to be granted if any of the owners had lic to manufacture or distribute booze...
Good to see you bruno
Quote from: swake on August 18, 2014, 11:21:23 AM
a brewpub is different from a manufacturing facility. Different rules.
A liquor lic is a liquor lic. It's either a high point/mixed bev or a low point city lic. Doesn't matter if it's a bar or restaurant. It's all the same as far as able is concerned. Now, there are different rules about abv and selling on site, as well as forcing you to sell to and buy back from a distributor for high abv but again, still requires a mix bev caterers lic. To get one, all of the owners of a corp have to be listed and all of the lic they own have to be disclosed, in particular if any owners have a distributors or manufacturers lic, they can't own the company nor can they be on the mixed bev lic. I could be wrong. Lord knows, I have been before but I've been through this with attys, business partners and able. They see it as a potential way to skirt the distribution regs. That's why they won't allow it. Now, I'm certain Elliot's boys are al over it but I'm perplexed as to how they jumped through the hoops. I've seen people utilize family members as shills and shell companies to get around it but it never seemed worth the risk.
I got an email today from Elgin Park Brewery stating they are now open.
I was there last Friday on the first night they were open to the public. It's a very nice sports bar with some good pizza. The prices are pretty hefty for typical pizza places in this area, but they apparently use high-quality ingredients and it tastes great. The "small" pizza size is quite a bit larger in area than you may expect, but it is a very thin fire-baked crust so it's not too filling.
The best part is that they have all the Marshall's brews on tap and enough huge TV's to be able to see every game clearly. Better than BWW's.
... but damn did they take a huge amount of space on that corner for their outdoor patio. It is very unwieldy to walk around as a pedestrian and could create a lot of havoc down the road if this turns into a truly urban area. I'm surprised there isn't a small uproar about this from the walkability/urban planning nerds?
I'm pretty sure that was one of the 'final straws' that led to the whole moratorium debacle in recent weeks.
Went last Thursday for college football and on Tuesday for US Soccer. Best sports bar in town, bar none.
Quote from: shavethewhales on September 08, 2016, 02:29:08 PM
I was there last Friday on the first night they were open to the public. It's a very nice sports bar with some good pizza. The prices are pretty hefty for typical pizza places in this area, but they apparently use high-quality ingredients and it tastes great. The "small" pizza size is quite a bit larger in area than you may expect, but it is a very thin fire-baked crust so it's not too filling.
The best part is that they have all the Marshall's brews on tap and enough huge TV's to be able to see every game clearly. Better than BWW's.
... but damn did they take a huge amount of space on that corner for their outdoor patio. It is very unwieldy to walk around as a pedestrian and could create a lot of havoc down the road if this turns into a truly urban area. I'm surprised there isn't a small uproar about this from the walkability/urban planning nerds?
It is a large amount of space but you can still easily walk by. TVs face outwards so that's cool.
Quote from: davideinstein on September 08, 2016, 03:45:15 PM
It is a large amount of space but you can still easily walk by. TVs face outwards so that's cool.
I agree, very easy to walk by. Maybe a bit awkward at first, having been open for so many years. Really wide sidewalks there and 8 feet plus around it.
Quote from: davideinstein on September 08, 2016, 03:42:32 PM
Went last Thursday for college football and on Tuesday for US Soccer. Best sports bar in town, bar none.
I agree! Great game atmosphere, especially during big games. It is fantastic place to watch a game or many with all of those screens.
I love the huge windows and the way it creates a frame for the ballpark. Perfect timing, opening on the first day of the college football season last Thursday.
Also, Pizza is delicious although it was a bit soggy at the middle.
I went last night for the first NFL game of the year.
The staff and crowd mostly cheered for Denver. They all seemed very football smart and I talked fantasy football with many of them.
I was impressed with the menu. The best was that I got a Theta burger and my side order was two buffalo wings.
I will be going back to watch football often.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on September 09, 2016, 10:56:43 AM
I went last night for the first NFL game of the year.
The staff and crowd mostly cheered for Denver. They all seemed very football smart and I talked fantasy football with many of them.
I was impressed with the menu. The best was that I got a Theta burger and my side order was two buffalo wings.
I will be going back to watch football often.
No Panthers fans there. I know all five of them in Tulsa.
:D
Pizza crust is great, Chef Tack did a good job with the menu, but I wish there were wings of some sort.
The space is very nice, comfortable, there is a TV everywhere you look.
Much Marshall's on tap, they are not brewing on site as yet.
So when they do brew on site it has to be 3.2 but they can sell whatever they want on tap as long as they go through the 3 tier system?
Eric Marshall has to buy his own beer from someone else (Central Liquor) to sell in his own tap? Our laws are so dumb.
Quote from: carltonplace on September 13, 2016, 02:32:07 PM
Pizza crust is great, Chef Tack did a good job with the menu, but I wish there were wings of some sort.
The space is very nice, comfortable, there is a TV everywhere you look.
Much Marshall's on tap, they are not brewing on site as yet.
So when they do brew on site it has to be 3.2 but they can sell whatever they want on tap as long as they go through the 3 tier system?
Eric Marshall has to buy his own beer from someone else (Central Liquor) to sell in his own tap? Our laws are so dumb.
I thought that now changed and they should be able to brew and distribute strong beer on-site or is it different for a brew pub?
Quote from: carltonplace on September 13, 2016, 02:32:07 PM
Pizza crust is great, Chef Tack did a good job with the menu, but I wish there were wings of some sort.
The space is very nice, comfortable, there is a TV everywhere you look.
Much Marshall's on tap, they are not brewing on site as yet.
So when they do brew on site it has to be 3.2 but they can sell whatever they want on tap as long as they go through the 3 tier system?
Eric Marshall has to buy his own beer from someone else (Central Liquor) to sell in his own tap? Our laws are so dumb.
There were wings there when I went the first time and I ordered them. Did they remove them from the menu?
I guess I missed them.
Quote from: Conan71 on September 13, 2016, 03:22:35 PM
I thought that now changed and they should be able to brew and distribute strong beer on-site or is it different for a brew pub?
As per conversation with Eric, they have to brew low point beer in this location.
Quote from: carltonplace on September 14, 2016, 11:54:49 AM
As per conversation with Eric, they have to brew low point beer in this location.
The law went into effect just a couple of weeks ago. They should just need to obtain a brewers license.
Quote from: carltonplace on September 14, 2016, 11:54:13 AM
I guess I missed them.
They are listed at the bottom of the menu page.
Quote from: carltonplace on September 14, 2016, 11:54:49 AM
As per conversation with Eric, they have to brew low point beer in this location.
Does he also still tell bartenders that expired drivers license arent valid ID for determining legal drinking age?
Trust, but verify.
They don't have to tell the bartenders that. That's one of the ways that ABLE tries to catch the bartenders. So they should all know about the expired license thing.
Quote from: carltonplace on September 14, 2016, 11:54:49 AM
As per conversation with Eric, they have to brew low point beer in this location.
I understood that was a decision they made so that people could carry out growlers.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 14, 2016, 12:35:44 PM
The law went into effect just a couple of weeks ago. They should just need to obtain a brewers license.
As of now I don't believe you can own a bar and a brewers license. So if the owners of the business had no other liquor licenses in the state of Oklahoma then Elgin Park could be a brewery and you could sell growlers to go of any strength beer. I'm not sure if you could have kids in the "tap room" or not. It doesn't make any sense but that's Oklahoma for you.
Is this place family friendly, or 21-n-over?
Quote from: BKDotCom on September 15, 2016, 09:58:15 PM
Is this place family friendly, or 21-n-over?
There were kids all over the place when I was there. It appeared to be more restaurant than bar.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on September 15, 2016, 09:05:36 AM
They don't have to tell the bartenders that. That's one of the ways that ABLE tries to catch the bartenders. So they should all know about the expired license thing.
The shouldnt tell the bartenders that because its not true. An expired DL is just as good as a current one for the purposes of determining your birthdate. My point was that ABLE misleads bartenders.
Quote from: patric on September 16, 2016, 12:00:38 AM
The shouldnt tell the bartenders that because its not true. An expired DL is just as good as a current one for the purposes of determining your birthdate. My point was that ABLE misleads bartenders.
Sadly ABLE is the law. Unless you want to challenge them, get a lawyer and potential get put in jail to prove a point.
Ran into an issue today:
Got there at 11:40am to get a seat and TV for the Panthers game. Manager doesn't get the TV's set until 12:20pm and so I miss the first three drives. It gets set to a non-HD channel which isn't a big deal until the manager switches it to bonus coverage on the local station with 8 minutes left to get HD, the local channel switches to post game and with 5 minutes left in the game I can't get anyone to switch it back. I told the bartender who blew me off. Then I flipped out on said bartender who tells the manager and just gets a shrug.
What this place needs are competent sports fans running the show. You don't charge a guy a $53 tab so he can miss the first three drives of the game and the last five minutes of the game. And you for sure correct the mistake immediately.
Quote from: davideinstein on September 19, 2016, 01:02:30 AMThen I flipped out on said bartender
http://i.imgur.com/3OkCpMe.gifv
Went again this weekend myself. This time I had to use the restroom and found their bizarre system of individual toilet rooms. They are pretty unhandy and cause long waits even when the place isn't slammed, but they do have TV's inside them which is cool.
I wish they had something cheaper for an appetizer so I could stay longer without having to drink the whole time. The pizza is nice, but honestly it's so pricey here I might go back to Lefty's.
Quote from: shavethewhales on September 19, 2016, 01:18:22 PM
Went again this weekend myself. This time I had to use the restroom and found their bizarre system of individual toilet rooms. They are pretty unhandy and cause long waits even when the place isn't slammed, but they do have TV's inside them which is cool.
I wish they had something cheaper for an appetizer so I could stay longer without having to drink the whole time. The pizza is nice, but honestly it's so pricey here I might go back to Lefty's.
I'm going to Leftys to watch the NFL next Sunday.
Quote from: davideinstein on September 19, 2016, 01:02:30 AM
Ran into an issue today:
Got there at 11:40am to get a seat and TV for the Panthers game. Manager doesn't get the TV's set until 12:20pm and so I miss the first three drives. It gets set to a non-HD channel which isn't a big deal until the manager switches it to bonus coverage on the local station with 8 minutes left to get HD, the local channel switches to post game and with 5 minutes left in the game I can't get anyone to switch it back. I told the bartender who blew me off. Then I flipped out on said bartender who tells the manager and just gets a shrug.
What this place needs are competent sports fans running the show. You don't charge a guy a $53 tab so he can miss the first three drives of the game and the last five minutes of the game. And you for sure correct the mistake immediately.
I don't think they have trained the employees well on the TV system yet (Still!). I asked them to change a channel and after 15 minutes of messing with it, they got it to a channel that was off air and left it. It wasn't at all what I asked for. Eventually they changed it to something else completely. Then it took 20 minutes to get someones attention that we needed the check, even at the bar.
I have noticed service has been slow at many place I've been to recently including highly-rated places we almost always have good experiences at. Typically, it is just getting the check that takes forever as we have learned to not ask for much (1 refill max if you're lucky and order any sauce/extras with the meal). Many I have talked to have had similar experiences in general recently. Some theories are that waiters and kitchen staff tend to smoke pot and the quality has gotten a lot better. Waiters here are starting to seem more like they are in New Mexico and Colorado (SLOW service!).
I am starting to like either sitting at the bar (where you almost always get good service) or bistro-style restaurants like Blue Moon Cafe or Calaveras where it is partially self-serve as I can get what I need far faster, better, cheaper and without the attitude.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on September 20, 2016, 08:53:34 AM
I don't think they have trained the employees well on the TV system yet (Still!). I asked them to change a channel and after 15 minutes of messing with it, they got it to a channel that was off air and left it. It wasn't at all what I asked for. Eventually they changed it to something else completely. Then it took 20 minutes to get someones attention that we needed the check, even at the bar.
I have noticed service has been slow at many place I've been to recently including highly-rated places we almost always have good experiences at. Typically, it is just getting the check that takes forever as we have learned to not ask for much (1 refill max if you're lucky and order any sauce/extras with the meal). Many I have talked to have had similar experiences in general recently. Some theories are that waiters and kitchen staff tend to smoke pot and the quality has gotten a lot better. Waiters here are starting to seem more like they are in New Mexico and Colorado (SLOW service!).
I am starting to like either sitting at the bar (where you almost always get good service) or bistro-style restaurants like Blue Moon Cafe or Calaveras where it is partially self-serve as I can get what I need far faster, better, cheaper and without the attitude.
The service around here is bad, always has been, but it has gotten worse.
Funny thing is that in my travels, I'm on the road a lot, I have found that just about anywhere else in the country has better service than we do in Tulsa. Just a few places I have been to recently:
Chicago - Great service
Milwaukee - Good to great service
NYC - Great service
Boston - Good to great service
Burlington, VT - Outstanding service
Salt Lake City - Good to great service
Grand Rapids - Great service
There is just something about Tulsa, and Oklahoma in general, that makes mediocre service the norm. Even that is slipping to the point where poor to awful service is the norm.
I will say the exceptions I have seen to this lately are Tallgrass Prairie Table, Laffa, Cafe Ole', Upper Crust, Main Street Tavern in BA, and Stepping Stone in Bixby where good to great service was provided in every instance.
From my experience, New Mexico and Colorado are worse. It also depends on the type of places you go. People travelling probably pick higher rated places whereas you might be more adventurous in Tulsa and end up at places that aren't rated highly. The more crowded a place, the more likely they are over stretched and not attentive. But I hate when they they are neither crowded nor attentive which is happening more and more. Went to Laffa recently and had bad service with attitude and a LONG wait for a check. It was not crowded either.
I see why food trucks and self-serve type places are on the upswing.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on September 20, 2016, 12:53:21 PM
From my experience, New Mexico and Colorado are worse. It also depends on the type of places you go. People travelling probably pick higher rated places whereas you might be more adventurous in Tulsa and end up at places that aren't rated highly. The more crowded a place, the more likely they are over stretched and not attentive. But I hate when they they are neither crowded nor attentive which is happening more and more. Went to Laffa recently and had bad service with attitude and a LONG wait for a check. It was not crowded either.
I see why food trucks and self-serve type places are on the upswing.
When my wife and I are out in NM or Colorado we realize we are on Mountain Time- literally and figuratively. No one gets in a hurry even if it's a sparsely-populated dive restaurant. A place really does stand out when they provide very attentive and quick service in the high country because it is a bit unusual.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on September 20, 2016, 08:53:34 AM
I don't think they have trained the employees well on the TV system yet (Still!). I asked them to change a channel and after 15 minutes of messing with it, they got it to a channel that was off air and left it. It wasn't at all what I asked for. Eventually they changed it to something else completely. Then it took 20 minutes to get someones attention that we needed the check, even at the bar.
I have noticed service has been slow at many place I've been to recently including highly-rated places we almost always have good experiences at. Typically, it is just getting the check that takes forever as we have learned to not ask for much (1 refill max if you're lucky and order any sauce/extras with the meal). Many I have talked to have had similar experiences in general recently. Some theories are that waiters and kitchen staff tend to smoke pot and the quality has gotten a lot better. Waiters here are starting to seem more like they are in New Mexico and Colorado (SLOW service!).
I am starting to like either sitting at the bar (where you almost always get good service) or bistro-style restaurants like Blue Moon Cafe or Calaveras where it is partially self-serve as I can get what I need far faster, better, cheaper and without the attitude.
I think it's just a bad labor pool in general.
I've been there a dozen times already.
Great place... great green and yellow color scheme along with a couple of bleachers from the old ballpark in the front area. ;D
All of my bartender/waitstaff experiences have been good, think there was a learning curve for the TVs...
Quote from: TulsaRufnex on September 30, 2016, 07:16:18 PM
I've been there a dozen times already.
Great place... great green and yellow color scheme along with a couple of bleachers from the old ballpark in the front area. ;D
All of my bartender/waitstaff experiences have been good, think there was a learning curve for the TVs...
Luckily all of the Panthers games have been on local tv since my issue.
I had a great experience my first time there. I wasn't concerned about the TVs though. If they are going to market themselves as "Tulsa's Premier Sports Bar" they should probably make sure they have every sports channel in existence and train their staff on how to work the TVs and have a guide to easily find a game if requested. Humperdink's in Dallas is a place I liked when I lived there and everyone on staff could get you the game you wanted within a minute or two. They had a paper printed guide every day to help find games and channels and they all knew which remote and which cable box was tied to each television. Really top notch operation.
My experience: In some cities, many of the people working in restaurants are later in life, often times college educated folks or college students who are working in a restaurant because the local job market doesn't have many options, or there's a large number of college students in the market. The best service I've ever seen in restaurants was in Portland, Oregon, for example. Tons of out of work, college educated folks to fill up their service industry jobs.
I don't know where the 21 year old pot smoking hipsters work in that market, but it wasn't in the sit-down restaurants I was in. Every place I visited in Portland both times I went were top notch.
As for the sports issue, I've employed a number of people who are literally proud to not know anything about sports. They make fun of sports and the people who like sports. We had to print out cheat sheets for them to work the TVs. Even then, you could count on the 15 foot wide screen being on Law and Order during lunch the day after a Thunder Game on TNT. Never failed. It's something about the downtown creative class. They're good with PBR, live music, local art, and other aspects of the urban scene, but rarely, in my experience, do they like sports.
So, yes, the issues are with the labor pool. Even on 71st Street, you can count on some of the staff being Rhema students, which helps. Friendly, drug free, super-charismatic Christians often make great servers (if not annoying people). I love the people I've employed, and many of them have broken the stereotype, but I also think it's safe to say that some of my best employees ever were Spartan students, TU students, or older adults working a second job or a transitionary job. The 22 year old "musician" living five-to-a-house with his or her buddies and coming to work high or hungover has always been a reality for us. Don't get me wrong. These are wonderful people. They just aren't always the best servers. Some have emerged from that lifestyle, but many have not. McNellies Group is fortunate to have a large pool from which to pull when opening a new place, but regardless, new places tend to suffer from several months of weeding out the staff who float around from new restaurant to new restaurant, wearing out their welcome from one place to the next.
I do believe they'll get their issues worked out. It takes time. I've enjoyed my experiences there, but then again, I'm not a Panthers fan...thank goodness.
Quote from: JoeMommaBlake on October 03, 2016, 03:22:40 PM
My experience: In some cities, many of the people working in restaurants are later in life, often times college educated folks or college students who are working in a restaurant because the local job market doesn't have many options, or there's a large number of college students in the market. The best service I've ever seen in restaurants was in Portland, Oregon, for example. Tons of out of work, college educated folks to fill up their service industry jobs.
I don't know where the 21 year old pot smoking hipsters work in that market, but it wasn't in the sit-down restaurants I was in. Every place I visited in Portland both times I went were top notch.
As for the sports issue, I've employed a number of people who are literally proud to not know anything about sports. They make fun of sports and the people who like sports. We had to print out cheat sheets for them to work the TVs. Even then, you could count on the 15 foot wide screen being on Law and Order during lunch the day after a Thunder Game on TNT. Never failed. It's something about the downtown creative class. They're good with PBR, live music, local art, and other aspects of the urban scene, but rarely, in my experience, do they like sports.
So, yes, the issues are with the labor pool. Even on 71st Street, you can count on some of the staff being Rhema students, which helps. Friendly, drug free, super-charismatic Christians often make great servers (if not annoying people). I love the people I've employed, and many of them have broken the stereotype, but I also think it's safe to say that some of my best employees ever were Spartan students, TU students, or older adults working a second job or a transitionary job. The 22 year old "musician" living five-to-a-house with his or her buddies and coming to work high or hungover has always been a reality for us. Don't get me wrong. These are wonderful people. They just aren't always the best servers. Some have emerged from that lifestyle, but many have not. McNellies Group is fortunate to have a large pool from which to pull when opening a new place, but regardless, new places tend to suffer from several months of weeding out the staff who float around from new restaurant to new restaurant, wearing out their welcome from one place to the next.
I do believe they'll get their issues worked out. It takes time. I've enjoyed my experiences there, but then again, I'm not a Panthers fan...thank goodness.
Not sports fans because they grew up in Tulsa which has zero sports culture at all comparatively speaking. I watched an OSU/Mizzou game at the alumni chapter in Portland a few years ago when visiting and there were tons of people that fit the mold of the creative class that knew their sports watching football.
Quote from: davideinstein on October 03, 2016, 04:39:06 PM
Not sports fans because they grew up in Tulsa which has zero sports culture at all comparatively speaking. I watched an OSU/Mizzou game at the alumni chapter in Portland a few years ago when visiting and there were tons of people that fit the mold of the creative class that knew their sports watching football.
Zero sports culture? You cannot be serious.
You are rapidly becoming our next Davazz with all your Tulsa bashing.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 04, 2016, 11:38:47 AM
Zero sports culture? You cannot be serious.
You are rapidly becoming our next Davazz with all your Tulsa bashing.
Was thinking the same thing... Surely he is joking. From football being so huge to the avid soccer fans to the massive Thunder following to just about everyone having played sports at some point. Sports are a very big deal here.
Quote from: davideinstein on October 03, 2016, 04:39:06 PM
Not sports fans because they grew up in Tulsa which has zero sports culture at all comparatively speaking. I watched an OSU/Mizzou game at the alumni chapter in Portland a few years ago when visiting and there were tons of people that fit the mold of the creative class that knew their sports watching football.
I guess you haven't been to Fassler Hall or other similar establishments that show games during Thunder playoff time (or NACC tourney, Olympics, or World Cup). There's a big Thunder following among the young/artsy/creative crowd and big passionate crowds for many of the other big sporting events.
Just about everybody plays sports growing up. It is a huge deal at just about every school. I can't imagine Portland being much better in that regard. Oklahoma produces more NCAA football players (despite being a smaller state), slightly fewer basketball players and about the same number of baseball players (again, despite the lower population).
Tulsa sports fans are different. I feel like I am somewhat an expert on this.
My first real money came at age 11 selling programs on 11th street outside Skelly Stadium. I spent high school working at the old Oiler Park doing everything from batboy to groundskeeper to selling soda. I still have a frequent urge to yell, "Ice Cold Pop!"
I started the first fantasy football league in Tulsa in 1983. When my wife and I were starting dating, I refused to see her on Friday nights during the fall because my friends and I would go to a random high school football game to see star players. I am also a charter member of the Green Bay fan club in Tulsa http://www.tulsa-packerbackers.org/
I travel to more games than any of you. This year I went to spring training for four games, Yankee stadium, Wrigley Field twice and Busch Stadium three times. I have been to 25 of the current football stadiums and 22 of the current baseball stadiums.
I go to sports bars in every city I can. I spend a week on average in Vegas and I stay in the sports book. I hang out at tailgate parties and start conversations on the street with anybody wearing a sports clothing item. I am that guy and I can talk sports.
Enough of my credentials...In larger cities than Tulsa, in general, have sports bars that are really only great bars near sports venues.
The fans are almost all showing local team pride and the walls are filled with local jerseys and cool pictures from past athletes from that town. A waiter or waitress doesn't have to know much to be polite in conversation. Drop a name or two and say, "go (insert team here) gets you all the cred you need. All the TVs are on one channel and people are really only interested in watching the game or drinking and talking about the game.
What a Tulsa sports bar has to have to succeed is way harder in my opinion. You need to not fill the walls with history but with technology. In General, Tulsa sports bars have more TVs per foot of space than any where else outside of a casino. And Tulsa sports bars have to compete with a casino. Most other urban areas don't.
I also think that Tulsans are food snobs as well. In almost every great sports bar I have been in, the menu has been pickled eggs and the bare minimum. In Tulsa, you have to be a restaurant first. There is a unique challenge to all sports bars that regular restaurants/bars don't have is the length of the stay of each customer. Most people eat and leave, but at sports bars some people stay for hours. I don't know how you make money on a chair that the person orders once and hangs around.
Tulsa doesn't have many venues that a sports bar can be next to. This is really the first true effort. They have an excellent menu and 47 nice big HDTVs. It opens up to a patio, has private areas, and is easy to get to.
I will give the staff a break. This is a high volume, loud place and people have high expectations.
Quote from: davideinstein on October 03, 2016, 04:39:06 PM
Not sports fans because they grew up in Tulsa which has zero sports culture at all comparatively speaking. I watched an OSU/Mizzou game at the alumni chapter in Portland a few years ago when visiting and there were tons of people that fit the mold of the creative class that knew their sports watching football.
\
Seriously? I grew up on Oilers baseball and hockey, TU Football, OU/OSU football, the Roughnecks (the original) The Outlaws, played hockey, soccer, baseball and football as a kid, used to go to the Tulsa Speedway on Saturday nights, went to the Spring Nationals drag races for 8 years in a row.
Most of my friends that I went to school with that still live in Tulsa are avid sports fans and have been since we were kids in the late 60's.
You must be hanging out with people that live under rocks. Tulsa has always had passionate sports fans.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 04, 2016, 01:48:59 PM
\
Seriously? I grew up on Oilers baseball and hockey, TU Football, OU/OSU football, the Roughnecks (the original) The Outlaws, played hockey, soccer, baseball and football as a kid, used to go to the Tulsa Speedway on Saturday nights, went to the Spring Nationals drag races for 8 years in a row.
Most of my friends that I went to school with that still live in Tulsa are avid sports fans and have been since we were kids in the late 60's.
You must be hanging out with people that live under rocks. Tulsa has always had passionate sports fans.
Passionate? Attendance at Roughnecks and TU football tell me otherwise.
Regarding sports cred, I watched every OSU game under Travis Ford last year and wasted money on a trip to see the Roughnecks in San Antonio. Both make me want to cry more than brag though.
Quote from: davideinstein on October 04, 2016, 05:00:13 PM
Regarding sports cred, I watched every OSU game under Travis Ford last year and wasted money on a trip to see the Roughnecks in San Antonio. Both make me want to cry more than brag though.
Stop
Quote from: davideinstein on October 04, 2016, 04:44:03 PM
Passionate? Attendance at Roughnecks and TU football tell me otherwise.
The Roughnecks put out a really piss poor product after all the ballyhoo about how they were going to be a superior soccer team. No wonder no one showed up. When TU is winning 8-10 games a year, they get good attendance. That's true of any team. Win games and you put fans in the stands.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 04, 2016, 01:23:18 PM
Just about everybody plays sports growing up. It is a huge deal at just about every school. I can't imagine Portland being much better in that regard. Oklahoma produces more NCAA football players (despite being a smaller state), slightly fewer basketball players and about the same number of baseball players (again, despite the lower population).
Probably the most notable area where Oklahoma schools shine. But stop to think about it, it's a way out of Oklahoma for the selected few who make it to the top.
Quote from: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 04, 2016, 01:23:18 PM
I guess you haven't been to Fassler Hall or other similar establishments that show games during Thunder playoff time (or NACC tourney, Olympics, or World Cup). There's a big Thunder following among the young/artsy/creative crowd and big passionate crowds for many of the other big sporting events.
Just about everybody plays sports growing up. It is a huge deal at just about every school. I can't imagine Portland being much better in that regard. Oklahoma produces more NCAA football players (despite being a smaller state), slightly fewer basketball players and about the same number of baseball players (again, despite the lower population).
People play a more variety of sports outside of Oklahoma. I played lacrosse in high school, which is just now being offered at some high schools here.
Quote from: Tulsasaurus Rex on October 04, 2016, 08:51:02 PM
Stop
Ok, I'll stop with the smartass comments and let you guys keep telling me this is good sports town.
Quote from: davideinstein on October 04, 2016, 04:44:03 PM
Passionate? Attendance at Roughnecks and TU football tell me otherwise.
Lets see, obviously you did not read my comment. I was referring to the original Roughnecks not the current version, and as to my attending TU games in my youth, back in the 70's, it was time for my father who is a TU Alumni who graduated from TU with a mechanical engineering degree in 1962 while working at McDonnell Douglas, to spend time together cheering on TU. I had a brother that attended one year at OSU and then graduated from TU in 1976 with a teaching degree.
It's very obvious that you have a disdain for college sports in Oklahoma, and you have a dim view of of sports fans in the Tulsa area, as well as you have a dim view of the employee base as well.
You seem to have this idea that some parts, Williams Center Tower, needs to be torn down because you view it as an obstruction to the way downtown should be. You also seem to be against the food truck industry as well. You seem to feel it interferes with your business at Jimmy Johns.
I don't know how long you have lived in Tulsa, and what your understanding of it's history is, but you seem to want to crap all over everything. While some of it may be warranted, the rest of it is rather bitter and obnoxious. If it's that bad that you complain about almost everything. why don't you move to some place that fits your ideals. If Tulsa doesn't have what is your idea of a sports culture, there are several thousand places you can go to.
Just an observation, it seems you have a very narrow view about Tulsa. I lived there for thirty four years from birth in 1963 until I moved in 1998, and while there are things that I may be critical of, the one thing that I will never change is that I still love where I was born and raised. There are so many members here that remind me of what Tulsa is, and I agree and disagree with them on issues since as much as thing change some remain the same, but they are what Tulsa is, but they don't sit and constantly crap on everything, and when the see something that should change they talk about why, and how it could make things better. They offer constructive criticism, and several are actively involved in making changes.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 05, 2016, 03:33:01 AM
Lets see, obviously you did not read my comment. I was referring to the original Roughnecks not the current version, and as to my attending TU games in my youth, back in the 70's, it was time for my father who is a TU Alumni who graduated from TU with a mechanical engineering degree in 1962 while working at McDonnell Douglas, to spend time together cheering on TU. I had a brother that attended one year at OSU and then graduated from TU in 1976 with a teaching degree.
It's very obvious that you have a disdain for college sports in Oklahoma, and you have a dim view of of sports fans in the Tulsa area, as well as you have a dim view of the employee base as well.
He's just dim.
Quote from: davideinstein on October 04, 2016, 11:15:37 PM
People play a more variety of sports outside of Oklahoma. I played lacrosse in high school, which is just now being offered at some high schools here.
What about lacrosse makes another city or town more sports-oriented than another? To my knowledge, Holland Hall has had a lacrosse team for eons. Tulsa has had amateur and youth hockey leagues since the 1970s. Youth soccer started here in the mid '70's and is still very strong. Tulsa has tons of competitive cyclists, a rowing club for youth and adults, multiple college teams to root for within 150 miles, two dirt auto racing tracks in the immediate area as well as a drag strip and road race course not far from Tulsa. It's hard to drive a mile in traffic here and not see an OU, OSU, TU, or Arkansas sticker or tag on another car. That's usually a fair indication the owner of that car is a fan of that school's sports programs.
When you have a
high school football rivalry which can come close to selling out Skelly Stadium, it's hard to claim Tulsa is not a sports-oriented city.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 05, 2016, 02:48:55 PM
What about lacrosse makes another city or town more sports-oriented than another? To my knowledge, Holland Hall has had a lacrosse team for eons. Tulsa has had amateur and youth hockey leagues since the 1970s. Youth soccer started here in the mid '70's and is still very strong. Tulsa has tons of competitive cyclists, a rowing club for youth and adults, multiple college teams to root for within 150 miles, two dirt auto racing tracks in the immediate area as well as a drag strip and road race course not far from Tulsa. It's hard to drive a mile in traffic here and not see an OU, OSU, TU, or Arkansas sticker or tag on another car. That's usually a fair indication the owner of that car is a fan of that school's sports programs.
When you have a high school football rivalry which can come close to selling out Skelly Stadium, it's hard to claim Tulsa is not a sports-oriented city.
Youth soccer, baseball, football, basketball, lacrosse, and hockey are all pretty popular around here these days.
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 05, 2016, 03:33:01 AM
Lets see, obviously you did not read my comment. I was referring to the original Roughnecks not the current version, and as to my attending TU games in my youth, back in the 70's, it was time for my father who is a TU Alumni who graduated from TU with a mechanical engineering degree in 1962 while working at McDonnell Douglas, to spend time together cheering on TU. I had a brother that attended one year at OSU and then graduated from TU in 1976 with a teaching degree.
It's very obvious that you have a disdain for college sports in Oklahoma, and you have a dim view of of sports fans in the Tulsa area, as well as you have a dim view of the employee base as well.
You seem to have this idea that some parts, Williams Center Tower, needs to be torn down because you view it as an obstruction to the way downtown should be. You also seem to be against the food truck industry as well. You seem to feel it interferes with your business at Jimmy Johns.
I don't know how long you have lived in Tulsa, and what your understanding of it's history is, but you seem to want to crap all over everything. While some of it may be warranted, the rest of it is rather bitter and obnoxious. If it's that bad that you complain about almost everything. why don't you move to some place that fits your ideals. If Tulsa doesn't have what is your idea of a sports culture, there are several thousand places you can go to.
Just an observation, it seems you have a very narrow view about Tulsa. I lived there for thirty four years from birth in 1963 until I moved in 1998, and while there are things that I may be critical of, the one thing that I will never change is that I still love where I was born and raised. There are so many members here that remind me of what Tulsa is, and I agree and disagree with them on issues since as much as thing change some remain the same, but they are what Tulsa is, but they don't sit and constantly crap on everything, and when the see something that should change they talk about why, and how it could make things better. They offer constructive criticism, and several are actively involved in making changes.
I'm an Oklahoma State football season ticket holder, my favorite place to eat in Tulsa is a food truck and I like complete blocks over super blocks with large office buildings. I'm not bitter, I just openly post my thoughts and ideas. I've lived in Tulsa proper, by choice, for a decade now.
Plus, this conversation is about sports culture. Not sure how more active I need to be in the local soccer scene to formulate an educated opinion on this. But, whatever.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 05, 2016, 02:48:55 PM
What about lacrosse makes another city or town more sports-oriented than another? To my knowledge, Holland Hall has had a lacrosse team for eons. Tulsa has had amateur and youth hockey leagues since the 1970s. Youth soccer started here in the mid '70's and is still very strong. Tulsa has tons of competitive cyclists, a rowing club for youth and adults, multiple college teams to root for within 150 miles, two dirt auto racing tracks in the immediate area as well as a drag strip and road race course not far from Tulsa. It's hard to drive a mile in traffic here and not see an OU, OSU, TU, or Arkansas sticker or tag on another car. That's usually a fair indication the owner of that car is a fan of that school's sports programs.
When you have a high school football rivalry which can come close to selling out Skelly Stadium, it's hard to claim Tulsa is not a sports-oriented city.
Every city has sports. I just don't think there is a great sports culture here. All I get are lectures about the Roughnecks and TU football from four decades ago. I think Tulsa has one really awesome, top notch sporting event in Tulsa Tough and that's it.
Gentlemen, please!
Quote from: davideinstein on October 05, 2016, 11:15:11 PM
Every city has sports. I just don't think there is a great sports culture here. All I get are lectures about the Roughnecks and TU football from four decades ago. I think Tulsa has one really awesome, top notch sporting event in Tulsa Tough and that's it.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees. Tulsa has always been a very sports-oriented town. We simply to not have first tier professional sports, that's the only thing which is lacking here.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 06, 2016, 09:42:03 AM
I think you are missing the forest for the trees. Tulsa has always been a very sports-oriented town. We simply to not have first tier professional sports, that's the only thing which is lacking here.
Despite his lack of elaboration, I'm giving David some leeway here. He's definitely coming at this from a "watching big-time sports as a group" angle, and from that perspective he has a point. As Conan notes, we don't have tier-one pro sports in this town, and also because we are so close to OSU, OU, and AR, those die-hard season ticket holders go to there to watch the games, etc. So I generally agree, there is not this rabid sports culture that you might see in, say, a South Eastern state with a pro football team and SEC colleges. It's just a different vibe, especially here in Tulsa.
But for me, I like it. We ARE a very sports and outdoors oriented city, where a large percentage of the population actually participates in whatever their sport or pastime is, instead of simply rooting for a team. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see MLS come to Tulsa and would support it, but overall I'd rather be doing than watching any day, and there are ton of Tulsans that apparently feel the same way.
What Tulsa lacks is a diversity of sports supporters because we don't draw in a lot of people from other areas like big cities do. In Dallas every college and pro team has a large supporters group that meet at sports bars to watch their games. Here we have OU, OSU, TU, and Arkansas groups for college, Cowboys and Chiefs followers for NFL (mostly locals who choose one or the other), and Cardinals fans for MLB. Other than that, other teams have small groups of fans that might gather, but it's nothing like a big city. I was in Washington, D.C. on a Sunday recently and found a bar that was all Dallas Cowboys. When I lived in Dallas all of the major colleges had big groups of supporters at sports bars on Saturdays. We don't have that in Tulsa. The issue affects only sports bars though. Our minor league teams do fine, we have strong youth sport groups, Southern Hills will get another major eventually, Tulsa Tough is awesome, the BMX facility will likely be a success, etc. The one thing I can't get into around here is high school football. I don't get the interest unless a friend or family member is on the field. But that's just a cultural thing I guess that I didn't get.
Actually, I completely overlooked putting Southern Hilla in the conversation. The PGA events they've hosted are worth noting and there is for sure a top notch golfing community here. That and Tulsa Tough are elite.
My argument was mainly in regards to pro/college sports culture. I try not to pick on TU too much because it's the smallest FBS program in the country and they exceed expectations overall with sports. But tomorrow they will have a football game on national TV and I know there will be empty seats. The Roughnecks are a laughingstock and the Drillers/Oilers are just minor league teams. Down the road in OKC (I'll prelude this with, I have no interest in living there really and prefer Tulsa for other reasons) they have an NBA team and now have MLS momentum. The guy who essentially went off on me earlier suggested I've done nothing to improve it. I've had season tickets, spent thousands on tickets/tailgating/travel and so on only to be let down by owners, politicians and apathetic fans for the one thing we had a chance at which was a good pro soccer culture. Now we have an NPSL team with no stadium because of politics and a USL team that couldn't care less about the product on the field because of bad owners. So maybe I am bitter, but it's not like I'm coming from a viewpoint that is clueless. It's not the best experience as a sports fan here in town.
Perfect example of thread drift.