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Talk About Tulsa => PlaniTulsa & Urban Planning => Topic started by: rdj on July 15, 2014, 09:51:29 AM

Title: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: rdj on July 15, 2014, 09:51:29 AM
Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of development along Oklahoma River
Developers of The Wheeler District are accepting ideas from many on the shape the neighborhood will take.

by Steve Lackmeyer Modified: July 14, 2014 at 10:51 pm •  Published: July 15, 2014

Some of the most extraordinary accomplishments are born out of delays and failures.

When Grant Humphreys first unveiled his vision for The Waterfront in 2006, the plans showed a mixed-use development at the former Downtown Airpark site, 1701 S Western Ave., along the south shore of the Oklahoma River.

The former Downtown Airpark and most of the property shown to the east will be redeveloped as Wheeler, a new urbanist neighborhood that will tie into the Oklahoma River and downtown. Photo provided
The plans were ambitious, but also based on residential and commercial development trends of the time. The economy crashed, the project was put on hold, and Humphreys went on to developing property acquired at Lake Eufaula that is now the innovative and successful Carlton Landing.

Grant Humphreys' brother, Blair Humphreys, spent those interim years obtaining his master's degree at MIT in Boston and overseeing the Institute of Quality Communities at the University of Oklahoma before agreeing to take on the airpark project in January.

An entirely new approach – one that could revolutionize mixed-use development statewide – is emerging from Humphreys' work with Miami-based planning firm Dover-Kohl. About 300 people from throughout the metro area accepted Humphreys' invitation to join his planning team at a kick-off "charrette" Wednesday night at The Grill on the Hill in Capitol Hill.

Having covered urban development for the past two decades, I've never seen such interest and excitement for what amounts to an exercise in urban planning, albeit one that has a real shot at becoming a reality.

The emerging young professionals in Oklahoma City are clearly wanting change. They don't want gated suburban apartment complexes and the Dallas-style country-cottage brick homes with brick mailboxes they are seeing in many new neighborhoods.

The hundreds who attended the charrette all talked about mixing retail in with housing. They want bike and walking trails. They want public spaces, not just pocket parks, and most importantly, they want the sort of communities that disappeared when cars and roads took priority over the rules that had created cities throughout the world for centuries.

Humphreys, well wired into the planning community thanks to his studies and work at OU, became familiar with Victor Dover and his firm's work with El Paso. "Plan El Paso" had won accolades and was named "America's Best Smart Growth Plan" in 2011.

The airpark development, rechristened "The Wheeler District," started off with 24 different lists of proposals submitted by participants Wednesday night. Over the weekend, Dover-Kohl, working with a team assembled by Humphreys, turned those ideas into draft plans that, if realized, will create a community different from any other in the state.

In a city where traffic roundabouts are built only grudgingly to address multi-street intersections, Wheeler envisions the intentional creation of two such junctions with streets replacing Western Avenue that provide multiple south and northbound traffic options and other streets leading to adjoining housing and retail. The street grid could also benefit nearby neighborhoods by increasing access to the river and downtown with new east-west connections to SW 15 and Walker Avenue.

The street grid is connected, but is in no way is it boring. The streets wind their way through the envisioned neighborhood, creating vistas of downtown, Mount St. Mary High School and the Oklahoma River. If the draft plans are embraced, multistory buildings with retail on the first floor and housing on the upper floors will line up quite a few of the streets.

Neighborhoods may include low-, moderate- and upper-income housing on the same blocks, potentially even allowing for a simple 800-square-foot home on the same stretch as a 2,500-square-foot home.

In the middle of it all will be the Santa Monica Ferris Wheel the Humphreys bought at the very start of this dream. Some of the draft renderings suggest the Ferris wheel should be located in a public plaza on the edge of the Oklahoma River.

The plans aren't going to be easy or quick to implement. Longtime city assumptions about traffic flow, street design and planning are being challenged with this effort. I challenge the traffic engineers and the city planners to consider how such roundabouts and efforts to slow traffic have performed in Midtown.

Boring will not revive the south half of the urban core. The potential of this development, if done successfully, if done in a daring way, will spark a revival of struggling nearby neighborhoods and Capitol Hill.

Areas to the north, west and east of downtown have all enjoyed a revival thanks to Oklahoma City's urban renaissance. When proposals from the Wheeler charrette are formally unveiled Wednesday, will city leaders ask how they can best make this the start of a south-side resurgence, or will they resort to saying why it can't be done?

http://newsok.com/innovative-brainstorming-sessions-could-produce-a-new-type-of-development-along-oklahoma-river/article/4998781
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: rdj on July 15, 2014, 09:52:06 AM
How great would it be if the UCAT land north of downtown was redeveloped in this style?
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: AquaMan on July 15, 2014, 10:34:41 AM
Or the once vibrant area south of downtown to 18th. Now looks like a suburban shopping center ......without the shopping center.

Lets hire that guy in spite of the fact he's an OU grad and let him see what real obstinance to smart planning looks like.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: SXSW on July 16, 2014, 11:51:41 PM
Both the UCAT land and parts of Riverview would be perfect for this type of development.  Both have fewer challenges than this site in OKC which is pretty far removed from downtown and surrounded by lower income neighborhoods and industrial sites.  Humphreys is also building a New Urbanist town on Lake Eufaula called Carlton Landing.

http://www.carltonlanding.com (http://www.carltonlanding.com)
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: rdj on July 17, 2014, 09:35:21 AM
I've been following the Twitter account for the development and Steve Lackmeyer's (Oklahoman RE reporter) twitter and if they pull this off it will be an incredible development.

The TYPros Street Cred event is a nice weekend.  But, how great would it be if an organization took an area like UCAT or west river bank or wherever and did a design charette like Wheeler did this weekend?
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: TheArtist on July 17, 2014, 09:46:24 AM
 New Comprehensive Plan.     Have any of you seen it?   Some great stuff if we could get it implemented.  Has some really neat "design charities" out the wazoo that thousands of Tulsan's worked on.   

The powers that be DONT WANT IT. 

Go ahead and design some more have the Typros design some more, aint gonna make any difference until YOU stand up and make a difference.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: Townsend on July 17, 2014, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: TheArtist on July 17, 2014, 09:46:24 AM
  aint gonna make any difference until YOU stand up and make a difference.

Some of us on here did.  Our efforts were swept away in a sea of "nope".

Personally, I gave up.  Started looking at other cities to live.

Right now, I'm using my time in other pursuits.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: AquaMan on July 17, 2014, 10:18:11 AM
Ask the people who criticize the leaders who killed forms based zoning in the Pearl. Ask those who are surprised that the comprehensive plan has been largely ignored. Ask those who are stunned at why OKC is outpacing us in many categories. Ask them who they voted for in key positions. Mayor, congressmen, senatorial, schoolboard, and councillors. You will find dual personality disorder manifested.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: rdj on July 17, 2014, 10:31:52 AM
I'm not talking about a city-wide plan.  I'm talking about developing in greater detail a small-area plan which is a component of Plan It Tulsa...
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: patric on July 17, 2014, 11:21:26 AM
Quote from: AquaMan on July 17, 2014, 10:18:11 AM
Ask the people who criticize the leaders who killed forms based zoning in the Pearl. Ask those who are surprised that the comprehensive plan has been largely ignored. Ask those who are stunned at why OKC is outpacing us in many categories. Ask them who they voted for in key positions. Mayor, congressmen, senatorial, schoolboard, and councillors. You will find dual personality disorder manifested.

Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt Form-Based Zoning just shrunken in size so that objectors like QT and car lots wouldnt be inconvenienced by their community?
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 11:51:41 AM
Quote from: patric on July 17, 2014, 11:21:26 AM
Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt Form-Based Zoning just shrunken in size so that objectors like QT and car lots wouldnt be inconvenienced by their community?


God forbid we should inconvenience the convenience store.....


Have noticed that QT is rapidly becoming an example of what happens with "next-generation-running-the-show"-itis that hits so many places!  Since the boy took over several years ago (2002), they are starting to slip.  The most noticeable is the fountain drinks.  They have slowly dialed up the ratio over the last few years to the point where now, they are just not worth the effort.  Kum and Go and OnCue (OKC area) are both better.  I don't do 7-11 so don't know about theirs.  It is these little details that, while getting them a huge margin, once the "frog in the pot" realizes what's going on, will have a long term affect.

And while they have made some potentially very good upgrades to facility/menu, they just haven't executed very well.  Donuts - mediocre at best.  The deli food - about the same - not impressive at all.  If gonna get "McDonald's" quality and taste, then shouldn't have to pay more than McDonalds' prices.  Shouldn't pay a Jimmy John's price for McD style food.

And quite by accident, I found out last weekend that they will not allow you to fill your fuel tank more than twice a day....needed to fill 4 cars on Sunday (yeah - that by itself is crazy!!) but QT wouldn't allow it.  Got the "See the cashier" message, and when I asked about it, the only thing they could think of was that I must have entered the wrong 'pin' number....right...like I mess that up 3 or 4 times a week at the pump!!  Conoco on 33rd West Ave had no trouble taking my money...

Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: Townsend on July 17, 2014, 12:03:43 PM
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 11:51:41 AM

God forbid we should inconvenience the convenience store.....


Have noticed that QT is rapidly becoming an example of what happens with "next-generation-running-the-show"-itis that hits so many places!  Since the boy took over several years ago (2002), they are starting to slip.  The most noticeable is the fountain drinks.  They have slowly dialed up the ratio over the last few years to the point where now, they are just not worth the effort.  Kum and Go and OnCue (OKC area) are both better.  I don't do 7-11 so don't know about theirs.  It is these little details that, while getting them a huge margin, once the "frog in the pot" realizes what's going on, will have a long term affect.

And while they have made some potentially very good upgrades to facility/menu, they just haven't executed very well.  Donuts - mediocre at best.  The deli food - about the same - not impressive at all.  If gonna get "McDonald's" quality and taste, then shouldn't have to pay more than McDonalds' prices.  Shouldn't pay a Jimmy John's price for McD style food.

And quite by accident, I found out last weekend that they will not allow you to fill your fuel tank more than twice a day....needed to fill 4 cars on Sunday (yeah - that by itself is crazy!!) but QT wouldn't allow it.  Got the "See the cashier" message, and when I asked about it, the only thing they could think of was that I must have entered the wrong 'pin' number....right...like I mess that up 3 or 4 times a week at the pump!!  Conoco on 33rd West Ave had no trouble taking my money...


You use QT for a lot more things than I do.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: TheArtist on July 17, 2014, 02:24:53 PM
Quote from: patric on July 17, 2014, 11:21:26 AM
Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt Form-Based Zoning just shrunken in size so that objectors like QT and car lots wouldnt be inconvenienced by their community?

There is still no Formed Based Zoning other than the small area in and around the park, south of 6th and West of Peoria.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 04:22:51 PM
Quote from: Townsend on July 17, 2014, 12:03:43 PM
You use QT for a lot more things than I do.


My experience with them goes back to the mid 60's....worked on some of their signs (also Git-N-Go) so felt obligated to support them at times, since they were supporting me.  Old habits die hard.  It was probably only about a year ago that I went to Kum and Go for the first time.  Have been to Fiesta Marts on occasion.

When you want a quick breakfast and need fuel, it is a pain to go to McD for Egg McMuffin, run down the street to the donut shop for dessert, then across the way to get fuel and a drink.  Drags that out to 20 minutes, when 1 stop can be 2 1/2 minutes....  But much of the time, I take the longer route, just to get better results.  Daylight or Paradise are decent donuts when I am nowhere near Merritt's bakery....

QT's VISA policy added about 35 minutes to what should have been a 5 minute adventure.  And the other thing I missed on the first note is that they stop the pumps at $100.00!!  What a pain in the bu$$ that is - I always need more than that - most of the time!!  So, I can restart the pump from scratch, or just go to some other place that doesn't play that nonsense game!  They try to blame it on VISA - and of course THAT is a lie!!   Hmmm...the more I think about this, the more irritated I get with them!  Strew 'em!!  I'm going somewhere else!!   At least for a while....  They are still pretty convenient for a lot of the small stuff I do.

Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: saintnicster on July 17, 2014, 04:38:00 PM
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 04:22:51 PM
QT's VISA policy added about 35 minutes to what should have been a 5 minute adventure.  And the other thing I missed on the first note is that they stop the pumps at $100.00!!  What a pain in the bu$$ that is - I always need more than that - most of the time!!  So, I can restart the pump from scratch, or just go to some other place that doesn't play that nonsense game!  They try to blame it on VISA - and of course THAT is a lie!!   Hmmm...the more I think about this, the more irritated I get with them!  Strew 'em!!  I'm going somewhere else!!   At least for a while....  They are still pretty convenient for a lot of the small stuff I do.
Not an outright lie, just a bit fuzzy. https://www.google.com/search?q=visa+gas+pump+limit
Visa/Mastercard will only reimburse so much in case of a disputed charge or other fraud.  From this search, the popular answer is 75$, but there are a couple of sources that say $125, so QT may be playing it safe.

As far as this bit
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 11:51:41 AMAnd quite by accident, I found out last weekend that they will not allow you to fill your fuel tank more than twice a day....needed to fill 4 cars on Sunday (yeah - that by itself is crazy!!) but QT wouldn't allow it.  Got the "See the cashier" message, and when I asked about it, the only thing they could think of was that I must have entered the wrong 'pin' number....right...like I mess that up 3 or 4 times a week at the pump!!
Do you even know it was actually QT that declined the charges?  Declining after 4 moderate-to-high transactions at a single place reeks of fraud protection that a bank would do.  "See the cashier" is just a super-generic message sent by the pump, and the person that you were talking to either couldn't, or didn't bother checking the error logs provided.  You can probably call your bank to see if they have access to those logs.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 05:09:20 PM
Quote from: saintnicster on July 17, 2014, 04:38:00 PM
Not an outright lie, just a bit fuzzy. https://www.google.com/search?q=visa+gas+pump+limit
Visa/Mastercard will only reimburse so much in case of a disputed charge or other fraud.  From this search, the popular answer is 75$, but there are a couple of sources that say $125, so QT may be playing it safe.

As far as this bit Do you even know it was actually QT that declined the charges?  Declining after 4 moderate-to-high transactions at a single place reeks of fraud protection that a bank would do.  "See the cashier" is just a super-generic message sent by the pump, and the person that you were talking to either couldn't, or didn't bother checking the error logs provided.  You can probably call your bank to see if they have access to those logs.

I have two main cards - neither of which has flinched at a wide variety of gas stations, truck stops, etc for charges up to as much as $190 per fill, followed by 50 to 100 charges at same time - while filling up to one medium size truck and two cars at the same time on the pumps at the single station.  My cards don't put those kind of limits on this type of purchase.  If something looks weird to them (and my whole financial environment looks weird), then they have called me at the point of sale a couple of times!  I think that was pretty cool.  Have been blocked, like when I am charging something in CA in the morning, and then charging again 5 hours later in Atlanta, and then late evening in Minneapolis.....call and it is cleared immediately.

This particular case was filling 3 cars in northeast OK spaced over about a 10 hour period (Owasso, Tulsa, Tulsa).  Morning about 9.  Afternoon at 2 pm, and evening at 7:30 pm.  I have talked to the banks (different for different cards) and they say no problem-o.  For decades.  

I bought an iPad for company use about 6 months ago, and they would not accept the charge at about $700 until I talked to them on the phone.  But have accepted $2,000+ hotel bills with no questions asked.  Go figure....



Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: Conan71 on July 17, 2014, 05:58:08 PM
A common scam for people to do with stolen credit cards is to offer to buy other's gas and only charge the other motorists a percent of the actual charge in cash.  It's happened a couple of times to my company with former employees on company fuel cards.  We have better safeguards in place now.

After saintnicster mentioned the fraud aspect, this came to mind immediately.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: nathanm on July 17, 2014, 07:04:18 PM
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 04:22:51 PM
QT's VISA policy added about 35 minutes to what should have been a 5 minute adventure.  And the other thing I missed on the first note is that they stop the pumps at $100.00!!  What a pain in the bu$$ that is - I always need more than that - most of the time!!

Unlike most other stations, they only authorize a dollar to verify the card when you use it at the pump. Others do $75 or $100 or $150 or whatever their transaction limit is, so they aren't running the risk of the charge failing to settle for the full amount. Doesn't really matter to me, but it can matter a lot to folks who are using a debit card and have one of the many customer unfriendly banks who will charge an overdraft fee for an authorization that takes the account negative.

At many stations, you can take the card inside and avoid the pay-at-the-pump transaction limit.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 07:09:20 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on July 17, 2014, 05:58:08 PM
A common scam for people to do with stolen credit cards is to offer to buy other's gas and only charge the other motorists a percent of the actual charge in cash.  It's happened a couple of times to my company with former employees on company fuel cards.  We have better safeguards in place now.

After saintnicster mentioned the fraud aspect, this came to mind immediately.


I saw that regularly when I was driving over the road - someone would fill your tank with company card, and all you had to do was give him half price in cash.  Not a stolen card - company fuel card.  If he was especially desperate you could get even cheaper than half price.  If he was smart, he could drag that out for a long time - make sure that every once in a while, you play it straight by filling the truck and not scamming for that tank.  Then, drive hard so the mileage is very low - say 4 mpg.  Then the next tank, the expectation is that gonna use fuel at 4 mpg rate, but drive softly and get 6 or 7.  Almost half a fill is available.  Half of 300 gallons (2 tanks at 150 gal each) at $4 a gallon can be a pretty good chunk of change.....$500 or 600 cash in pocket, and the company really doesn't know for a long, long time.

And you could always buy brand new, latest release DVD/BlueRay movies - often before available in stores....'cause the trucks taking it to the stores were the retail outlet.

And it was always exciting to go pull someones 5th wheel handle, just to see if they really did their inspection properly when getting back in truck - if not, the trailer just slides off the back when the driver moves forward and lands on the ground...!!   Ahhhh,....the good times from the good ole days!!

Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 07:13:08 PM
Quote from: nathanm on July 17, 2014, 07:04:18 PM
Unlike most other stations, they only authorize a dollar to verify the card when you use it at the pump. Others do $75 or $100 or $150 or whatever their transaction limit is, so they aren't running the risk of the charge failing to settle for the full amount. Doesn't really matter to me, but it can matter a lot to folks who are using a debit card and have one of the many customer unfriendly banks who will charge an overdraft fee for an authorization that takes the account negative.

At many stations, you can take the card inside and avoid the pay-at-the-pump transaction limit.


And another thing about QT...!!  The water in the windshield washer buckets is just water!!  Just filled up at Love's a while ago (over $100) and was reminded of that neat little touch that they don't do!!  I can actually get my windows clean at Love's!  Can't do that at QT!!  And yeah, it's raining here, too (OKC area tonight) but always clean the windows at every stop to get ahead of the bugs a little bit.

Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: patric on July 17, 2014, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 07:13:08 PM
And another thing about QT...!!  The water in the windshield washer buckets is just water!!

Since you are on a roll, next time they claim they need an outrageous amount of "security lighting" to ward off evil, remind them of how many of those "well-lit" stores had armed robberies just in Tulsa this week.  I think it's around 4 or 5...
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: AquaMan on July 17, 2014, 10:17:15 PM
Need more lights shining on the beer coolers.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 18, 2014, 06:26:50 AM
Quote from: AquaMan on July 17, 2014, 10:17:15 PM
Need more lights shining on the beer coolers.


Mmmmmmm....bbbeeeeeeerrrrrrr!!

Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: RecycleMichael on July 18, 2014, 08:10:04 AM
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2014, 05:09:20 PM
 But have accepted $2,000+ hotel bills with no questions asked.

You must watch a lot of porn.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 18, 2014, 09:49:37 AM
Quote from: RecycleMichael on July 18, 2014, 08:10:04 AM
You must watch a lot of porn.


Expensive hotels at times.  Downtown Chicago has some...another reason to hate Chicago!!

Even a quiet little backwater like Anaheim, CA has some pricey hotels...last time I was there, it was $260 a night down the street from the convention center!!  I think it was a Hyatt - got a free night or two from that one!!  Crazy!





Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: patric on July 23, 2014, 09:48:31 PM
From KRMG:

TULSA - More zoning changes have begun in Tulsa's Pearl District.

The planning commission approved a request from the VFW, Indian Health Care Resource Center and American Legion to revert to an older zoning code.
Current regulations govern a building's look, rather than use.
The groups say changes to the code three years ago impeded on their property rights.
Proponents of the current code say a change hurts the district's long-term revitalization.
The request now goes before city council.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: Townsend on July 23, 2014, 11:06:09 PM
Quote from: patric on July 23, 2014, 09:48:31 PM
From KRMG:

TULSA - More zoning changes have begun in Tulsa's Pearl District.

The planning commission approved a request from the VFW, Indian Health Care Resource Center and American Legion to revert to an older zoning code.
Current regulations govern a building's look, rather than use.
The groups say changes to the code three years ago impeded on their property rights.
Proponents of the current code say a change hurts the district's long-term revitalization.
The request now goes before city council.


Yeah,  that's about right.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: TheArtist on July 24, 2014, 08:45:18 AM
So minimum parking requirements don't impede on your property rights? There are many buildings that sit empty (as one developer told me the other day they are essentially "condemned" by the city via the zoning laws, and businesses that can't expand because they can't get enough parking and NO the Form Based Codes are not implemented for I was required to put in how many parking spaces onto the plans I submitted to the city and they didn't act like they knew anything about any "Form Based Codes".  The first lady I spoke to gave me a blank stare when I mentioned them and had no clue. They were still pushing for and advising people to conform to the old codes.

Here is the property we were trying to go into.

1513 E 11th

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.147867,-95.971461,3a,75y,356.4h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1se7Q5X1yyc1mcKLILbPBeUw!2e0

And then this from Roger Larkey the Commercial Building Plans Examiner from the Commercial Architectural Plan Review


OUR REVIEW HAS IDENTIFIED THE FOLLOWING CODE OMISSIONS OR DEFICIENCIES IN THE PROJECT APPLICATION FORMS, DRAWINGS, AND/OR SPECIFICATIONS.  THE DOCUMENTS SHALL BE REVISED TO COMPLY WITH THE REFERENCED CODE SECTIONS.  
2.   107.2.5 Site plan    
Review Comment:   Submit a site plan to show the parking and accessible route for this building.

5.   1106.6 Location. Accessible parking spaces shall be located on the shortest accessible route of travel from adjacent parking to an accessible building entrance. In parking facilities that do not serve a particular building, accessible parking spaces shall be located on the shortest route to an accessible pedestrian entrance to the parking facility. Where buildings have multiple accessible entrances with adjacent parking, accessible parking spaces shall be dispersed and located near the accessible entrances.                    Review Comment:  No accessible parking spaces/route of travel is identified on the submitted plans.  See Review Comment # 2 above for corrective action to take.

We were within the supposed Form Based Codes area.  So if they were in place and there are no parking requirements, what business is it of theirs to have us spend time and money, measuring things out, drawing up new plans, paying to resubmit the plans, etc. to show parking?  Guess it's not their time and money so they don't care if you have to spend more of your time and money to do it?  But apparently it's needed or why would they require it?



Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 24, 2014, 10:23:27 AM
Quote from: TheArtist on July 24, 2014, 08:45:18 AM

We were within the supposed Form Based Codes area.  So if they were in place and there are no parking requirements, what business is it of theirs to have us spend time and money, measuring things out, drawing up new plans, paying to resubmit the plans, etc. to show parking?  Guess it's not their time and money so they don't care if you have to spend more of your time and money to do it?  But apparently it's needed or why would they require it?



Ahhhhh...the joys of interaction with bureaucratic functionaries.....


I ran into something with the Oklahoma Tax Commission while trying to set up a small manufacturing facility.  There is supposed to be a sales tax exemption allowed for certain items used in the manufacturing process - component parts.  This is mfg "equivalent" to a sales tax permit for retail sales.

I had a facility rented, furnished, and operating.  Had built one prototype unit.  Was in process of doing manufacturing at the time I called the OTC and requested inspection for the manufacturing permit.  They didn't even bother to come do the inspection they are required by law to do...go figure on that, huh?  Anyway, they just said no, you aren't doing manufacturing...

Idiots!  (Not to mention the things used to wipe a babies backside when he messes his diaper!!)








Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: Conan71 on July 24, 2014, 01:25:36 PM
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on July 24, 2014, 10:23:27 AM

Ahhhhh...the joys of interaction with bureaucratic functionaries.....


I ran into something with the Oklahoma Tax Commission while trying to set up a small manufacturing facility.  There is supposed to be a sales tax exemption allowed for certain items used in the manufacturing process - component parts.  This is mfg "equivalent" to a sales tax permit for retail sales.

I had a facility rented, furnished, and operating.  Had built one prototype unit.  Was in process of doing manufacturing at the time I called the OTC and requested inspection for the manufacturing permit.  They didn't even bother to come do the inspection they are required by law to do...go figure on that, huh?  Anyway, they just said no, you aren't doing manufacturing...

Idiots!  (Not to mention the things used to wipe a babies backside when he messes his diaper!!)


Applying for corporate welfare?  Tsk tsk.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 24, 2014, 02:08:13 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on July 24, 2014, 01:25:36 PM
Applying for corporate welfare?  Tsk tsk.


Avoiding double taxation.  Isn't that one of the main premises of this country?

Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: Hoss on July 24, 2014, 02:32:00 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on July 24, 2014, 01:25:36 PM
Applying for corporate welfare?  Tsk tsk.

Hey, if Exxon can do it....
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: TheArtist on August 25, 2014, 09:19:58 AM
Thought this might fit in this thread.

It's a new TIFF type program I have not heard of before. Has both arguable pros and cons but could be an over all positive in some circumstances.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/realestate/commercial/tax-program-aims-to-reverse-decades-long-decline-in-allentown.html?_r=4


ALLENTOWN, Pa. — More than 600,000 square feet of office and retail space is being built in the long-depressed center of this city, spurred by an unusual state-sanctioned project that permits revenues from tenants' tax bills to be used to pay down some of the debt incurred during construction....

The new development in this city of 119,000 has been spurred by the Neighborhood Improvement Zone, a state program that encourages businesses to move in by allowing developers to use designated tax revenues to pay off bonds and loans issued for capital improvements in the zone.

Aided by tax dollars that would otherwise go to state or local general funds, developers should be able to offer attractive rents to companies that bring in new workers — who in turn might move into or buy new apartments and support new shops and restaurants in what had been a blighted urban landscape.

National Penn Bancshares, one of the development's anchor tenants, will be paying 20 to 25 percent below the suburban Class A market rent for its new offices spanning 125,000 square feet, said J.B. Reilly, president of City Center Lehigh Valley, the developer. The bank began moving employees in this week.

The 11-floor building, which will be National Penn's new headquarters, contains 272,000 square feet of office space plus 28,000 square feet for restaurants and retail on the first floor.

Mr. Reilly said in an interview that some tenants are attracted not only by the favorable rents but also because they want to take part in reviving Allentown. "You are trying to incentivize development in challenged urban areas," he said.

The development also includes a seven-floor, 186,000-square-foot office building whose principal tenant will be Lehigh Valley Health Network, Allentown's biggest employer, which is scheduled to move into the new building on June 1, bringing about 500 employees to the city center.

Dr. Ronald Swinfard, chief executive of the nonprofit, said it would benefit by paying less rent per square foot than it does in its current suburban location — where it will retain some operations — but that it was mainly attracted to the new building because it will add to facilities for the community medicine that the group already offers elsewhere in Allentown.

"We wanted to be part of the revitalization of downtown Allentown," he said....

Two other Pennsylvania cities, Bethlehem and Lancaster, have recently been designated as City Reinvestment and Improvement Zones ("CRIZ") under a more recent law that is similar to the NIZ but restricts the tax benefits to revenues from out-of-state companies or, in the case of companies moving from elsewhere in Pennsylvania, to additional revenues that are generated in the new location.

The strength of the improvement zone model is that it depends on the developer's ability to attract revenue-generating tenants and is not based on state handouts, Mr. Reilly said. "They are pledging the tax revenues related to the developer's project to the developer's lender," he said. "It's really market driven. If the developer can't attract tenants, then the developer's going to be on the hook for repaying the loan."

But the program has its detractors. Stephen F. Thode, a professor of real estate at Lehigh University, argued that the improvement zone legislation is flawed because it does not require developers to create jobs in return for what he called "subsidies" in the zone. "It's not true economic development. It's simply moving existing businesses and existing jobs from one location to another. No new jobs are being created," he said.

But Mr. Thode said the legislature "got smart" when it passed the city improvement zone because that law links the use of tax dollars to job creation....
"It's taking an area that was an eyesore and breathing life into it," Mr. Cunningham said.

To rebuild a city center, it is necessary to create a compact, safe, walkable environment that meets the needs of younger workers, not only for good jobs, but also for an urban lifestyle that is replacing the suburban environment sought by the previous generation, Mr. Reilly said.

"People are not clamoring to that suburban lifestyle like they were in the '70s," he said. "It's a different day."
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: chimchim on August 28, 2014, 10:39:53 PM
Curious, TheArtist, what you think about the council's recent decision to grant 3 buildings permission to leave the FBC?

Most in our circles are saying that's it for, FBC.  It's dead.  PlaniTulsa is no more.  Doom and gloom.  The world has ended.  etc. etc.

From the TulsaNow board: https://tulsanow.org/wp/index.php/the-war-on-the-pearl-appears-to-be-ending/ ...I have some of my own thoughts, that I'll write about on the blog in a couple weeks, but wanted to know what you and maybe some others think.
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: TheArtist on August 29, 2014, 06:53:09 AM
First off we need to get the FBC applied in the rest of the area.  As I mentioned when we tried to go into a building that was supposedly in the FBC area on 11th, minimum parking requirements, etc. were still in place. I can only surmise that these buildings were pulled out of some future FBC implementation?  

No I don't think FBCd's or PlaniTulsa is dead.  But regardless we still need to push the city to be updating it's zoning to allow good urban development in those areas where we would like urban development to be.

One critical element that seems to have been missing this whole time is education.  We need to educate the parties involved.  Not all will come on board with any change, but I believe enough would to put more momentum on our side.

A 5-7 minute video laying out some basic facts would do wonders.  Every property owner, and especially new property owner, needs to be approached and met with.  Welcome them to the area, let them know who we are and present them with the video and a quick summary handout.

I run into people all the time who have no clue that sweet idyll "Mayberry main street" development is illegal in Tulsa.  That the current zoning not only outlaws it but actively works to go against any plans to create classic urban/pedestrian friendly, transit friendly development.  
Title: Re: NewsOK: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of...
Post by: patric on September 08, 2014, 12:51:10 PM
Maybe re-brand?

(AP) With climate change still a political minefield across the nation despite the strong scientific consensus that it's happening, some community leaders have hit upon a way of preparing for the potentially severe local consequences without triggering explosions of partisan warfare: Just change the subject.

Big cities and small towns are shoring up dams and dikes, using roof gardens to absorb rainwater or upgrading sewage treatment plans to prevent overflows. Others are planting urban forests, providing more shady relief from extreme heat. Extension agents are helping farmers deal with an onslaught of newly arrived crop pests.

But in many places, especially strongholds of conservative politics, they're planning for the volatile weather linked to rising temperatures by speaking of "sustainability" or "resilience," while avoiding no-win arguments with skeptics over whether the planet is warming or that human activity is responsible.

The pattern illustrates a growing disconnect between the debate still raging in politics and the reality on the ground. In many city planning departments, it has become like Voldemort, the arch-villain of the Harry Potter stories: It's the issue that cannot be named.

"The messaging needs to be more on being prepared and knowing we're tending to have more extreme events," said Graham Brannin, planning director in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where Sen. James Inhofe — a global warming denier and author of a book labeling it "The Greatest Hoax" — once served as mayor. "The reasoning behind it doesn't matter; let's just get ready."

To be sure, flood control projects and other so-called resiliency measures were taking place long before anyone spoke of planetary warming. But the climate threat has added urgency and spurred creative new proposals, including ones to help people escape searing temperatures or to protect coastlines from surging tides, like artificial reefs. It's also generated new sources of government funding.

In Tulsa, the city has been buying out homeowners and limiting development near the Arkansas River to help prevent flooding from severe storms. Although two lakes provide ample drinking water, Brannin is beginning to push for conservation with future droughts in mind. A nonprofit, Tulsa Partners Inc., is advocating "green infrastructure" such as permeable pavement to soak up storm runoff.

They emphasize disaster preparedness, saying little or nothing about climate change.

Leaders in Grand Haven, a town of 10,600 in predominantly Republican western Michigan, will meet this fall with design consultants to explore such possibilities as "cooling stations" for low-income people during future heat waves, or development restrictions to prevent storm erosion of the Lake Michigan waterfront.

City Manager Pat McGinnis isn't calling it a climate change initiative.

"I wouldn't use those words,'" McGinnis said he told the consultants. "Those are a potential flash point."

Grand Haven's mayor, Geri McCaleb, is among the skeptics who consider warming merely part of nature's historical cycle. Yet she's on board with ideas for dealing with storms.

"History will bear out who has the right answers" about climate change, McCaleb said.

Joe Vandermeulin, whose organization runs the Grand Haven program and others, is accustomed to walking the language tightrope.

"The term 'global warming' seems to be thoroughly misunderstood, so we don't use it much," Vandermeulin said, even though a primary goal is helping communities prepare for ... global warming.

During a climate conference this summer that drew about 175 community leaders, government officials and scientists, mostly from the Great Lakes area, organizers even distributed a pamphlet with tips for discussing the subject — or sidestepping it. For example, avoid hyperbolic "climageddon" warnings about impending catastrophe, it advises.

"It's really unfortunate that the political climate has poisoned the way we have to talk about these things," said Don Scavia, a University of Michigan environmental scientist and an organizer of the Ann Arbor session.

In Fayetteville, Arkansas, Peter Nierengarten, the city's "sustainability and resilience director," encounters a range of opinion about his efforts to make houses more energy and water efficient. A conspiracy theorist website headlined "The 'Sustainable' Vampire Attacks!" accuses him of colluding with a supposed United Nations-inspired plot to revoke individual rights.

But Nierengarten and allies successfully lobbied the GOP-led state legislature to allow communities to issue tax-exempt bonds for efficiency projects.

"It was all about the economic health of businesses across the state and being more competitive," he said. "Not global warming."

The subject is especially touchy in coastal areas, where developers worry that projections of rising sea levels will boost insurance costs and scare off real estate buyers. In rural Hyde County, N.C., planning director Kris Noble just talks about flooding, which people understand.

"We can argue about climate change all day long, is it happening or is it not, but either way, we've always flooded and we're always going to flood," she said.