Kind surprised there is not a thread on this yet, perhaps from the Obama lovers arguing how this proves he does not leave soldiers behind. 5 top Taliban soldiers for one U.S. soldier that might be a deserter? Fair swap? Here's a NYT article for some background on Bergdahl.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/us/us-soldier-srgt-bowe-bergdahl-of-idaho-pow-vanished-angered-his-unit.html?hp&_r=1
You would have bashed Obama if he did or didn't do anything to get the American soldier home.
Yawn.
It is really great that you and gaspar can find so many ways to be upset.
Could be that there are some of us not running around like a bunch of mouth breathing rednecks, and are waiting for some facts to come about. (if the truth ever comes out about Bergdahl's situation.)
This thread will go poorly if it's continued.
According to Bergdahl's former comrades they interviewed on CBS this morning, he deserted.
If the five Taliban leaders really are who they are being made out to be, they will help lead to more instability and could be behind more U.S. soldiers being KIA in Afghanistan.
Very stupid move regardless of the political affiliation of the president. This is why people view him as clueless and arrogant.
Quote from: guido911 on June 03, 2014, 12:55:06 PM
Kind surprised there is not a thread on this yet, perhaps from the Obama lovers arguing how this proves he does not leave soldiers behind. 5 top Taliban soldiers for one U.S. soldier that might be a deserter? Fair swap? Here's a NYT article for some background on Bergdahl.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/us/us-soldier-srgt-bowe-bergdahl-of-idaho-pow-vanished-angered-his-unit.html?hp&_r=1
It's a much wider agenda than a prisoner swap. This guy was just a nominal piece on the chess board - the negotiations with Taliban were started WAY before Obama, and they continue with the recognition of the reality that they will be back in power within months of our exit.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 03, 2014, 02:29:44 PM
It's a much wider agenda than a prisoner swap. This guy was just a nominal piece on the chess board - the negotiations with Taliban were started WAY before Obama, and they continue with the recognition of the reality that they will be back in power within months of our exit.
Not if we never leave
Quote from: CharlieSheen on June 03, 2014, 02:31:21 PM
Not if we never leave
Regardless. We will work with them the same as Karzii (sp?). Out with the "old boss", in with the "new boss"....
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 03, 2014, 02:29:44 PM
It's a much wider agenda than a prisoner swap. This guy was just a nominal piece on the chess board - the negotiations with Taliban were started WAY before Obama, and they continue with the recognition of the reality that they will be back in power within months of our exit.
So why do you put those five chess pieces back on the board when our withdrawal is coming in the next year and a half?
It's almost certain we will end up back in there at some point unless we have finally learned the immutable truth the Soviets learned that no war is winnable in Afghanistan.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 03, 2014, 02:33:36 PM
So why do you put those five chess pieces back on the board when our withdrawal is coming in the next year and a half?
It's almost certain we will end up back in there at some point unless we have finally learned the immutable truth the Soviets learned that no war is winnable in Afghanistan.
Why not? They are gonna be among the top leaders of the new Afghanistan regime in a couple years anyway.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 03, 2014, 03:07:23 PM
Why not? They are gonna be among the top leaders of the new Afghanistan regime in a couple years anyway.
Glib much?
So just let them go and say "We will keep a close eye on them" Much like we kept such a close eye on the gun runners in fast and furious.
I have zero doubt these guys will be responsible for more US servicemen's deaths. Do you?
Quote from: Conan71 on June 03, 2014, 03:16:39 PM
I have zero doubt these guys will be responsible for more US servicemen's deaths. Do you?
Sometimes I wonder who really should be blamed for many of the US servicemen's deaths.
We got a warning once from this cat -
(http://www.laprogressive.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/General_Eisenhower.gif)
Quote from: Conan71 on June 03, 2014, 03:16:39 PM
Glib much?
So just let them go and say "We will keep a close eye on them" Much like we kept such a close eye on the gun runners in fast and furious.
I have zero doubt these guys will be responsible for more US servicemen's deaths. Do you?
Not at all glib. Just a recognition that this is one of the steps to normalization of relations with the new regime when we move out and they move in. These guys are likely to just chill for a while in Qatar while waiting for the transition. Hard to say what the time frame will be, but it is likely to take more than 6 months, but less than 36 months - new regime.
Have you not noticed the huge drop off in casualties in Afghan... it almost appears to be a bit of a "cease-fire" between us and the Taliban while final negotiations are in process? I could find 0 in Mar, 2 in Apr, 1 in May. 5 in a helicopter crash unrelated to combat operations. Has quieted a lot.... but we still should have been out of there years ago!!
It's called reality....
I remember reading that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs said that no matter what he allegedly did, the swap was the right thing to do. He also stated that he would be investigated and court martialed if he indeed did desert.
Molehill, meet mountain.
Quote from: Townsend on June 03, 2014, 03:54:34 PM
Sometimes I wonder who really should be blamed for many of the US servicemen's deaths.
We got a warning once from this cat -
You know who...it's been gone over here.
There is obviously some things that we don't know. This was a oddly lopsided trade.
All we do know about Bergdahl is that:
He was withdrawn according to his fellow soldiers and spent more time with the Afghans than with other soldiers.
He learned to speak the local dialect, and studied the local maps.
Bergdahl left base one day unarmed, unescorted and out of uniform.
He told no one about where he was going or why.
He was captured and kept for 5 years.
Durring his captivity he sent emails to his parents discussing his shame to be an American (perhaps under duress), as reported in Rolling Stone in 2012. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607
A lot can happen to a person when treated as a prisoner for 5 years.
What we know about the individuals traded:
Abdul Haq Wasiq
Thought to be in his early 40s, Wasiq served as the Taliban deputy minister of intelligence and "had direct access to Taliban and Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin leadership," according to an internal memo that assessed risk at Guantanamo. He reportedly used his office to support Al Qaeda "and to assist Taliban personnel elude capture." He also reportedly arranged for Al Qaeda personnel to train Taliban intelligence staff. Wasiq belongs to the Khogyani Tribe and began his religious training under his father, Muhammad Saleem, who died in 1981.Three years later, he went to study Islam at Warah, a school located on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border near the Khyber Pass. When the Taliban assumed control in Afghanistan, a number of Islamic students, including Wasiq, went to Kabul. Wasiq has been accused by Human Rights Watch of mass killings and torture. According to a report by the Joint Task Force Guantanamo, Wasiq "arranged for Al Qaeda personnel to train Taliban intelligence staff in intelligence methods."
Mullah Norullah Noori
As a senior Taliban military commander, Noori has been described in government reports as a military mastermind of sorts who engaged in hostilities "against U.S. and Coalition forces in Zabul Province." Noori, who is estimated to be around 46 or 47 years old, has developed close ties to Taliban leader Mullah Omar and other senior Taliban officials, according to a JTF-GTMO report. Noori, who was named as the Taliban governor for the Balkh and Lagman provinces, is wanted by the United Nations for war crimes including the murder and torture of thousands of Shiite Muslims. Noori has been able to remain a "significant figure" to Taliban supporters and sympathizers. According to government records, which are based on conversations with Noori, he grew up in Shajoy where he learned to read and write at a mosque in his village. His father was the imam at the mosque. As a boy, he worked as a farmer on his father's land. In March 1999, he traveled to Kabul where he met with Mullah Yunis, the commander of the Taliban security base, and expressed interest in joining the Taliban. After the Taliban front lines fell in November 2001, Noori traveled to Konduz where he was trained and worked with Omar. Noori has been implicated in the murder of thousands of Shiites in northern Afghanistan. When asked about the killings, Noori "did not express any regret and stated they did what they needed to do in their struggle to establish their 'ideal state.'"
Mullah Mohammad Fazi
As the Taliban's former deputy defense minister, Fazi was held at Guantanamo after being identified as an enemy combatant by the United States. Fazi is an admitted senior commander who served as chief of staff of the Taliban Army and as a commander of its 22nd Division. He's also wanted by the United Nations on war crimes for the murder of thousands of Shiite Muslims in Afghanistan. According to documents, Fazi "wielded considerable influence throughout the northern region of Afghanistan and his influence continued after his capture." The Taliban has used Fazi's capture as a recruiting tool. "If released, detainee would likely rejoin the Taliban and establish ties" with other terrorist groups, the Guantanamo report says.
Mullah Khairullah Khairkhwa
Khairkhwa is the former governor of the Herat province and has close ties with Usama bin Laden and Mullah Omar. According to the Joint Task Force Guantanamo file, Khairkhwa "represented the Taliban during meetings with Iranian officials seeking to support hostilities against US and coalition forces." Khairkhwa and his deputies are suspected of being associated with an extremist military training camp run by the Al Qaeda commander Abu Musab al Zarqawi, who was killed in 2006. U.S. authorities have also accused Khairkhwa of becoming a powerful opium trafficker.
Mohammad Nabi Omari
As a senior Taliban leader, Nabi Omari has held multiple leadership roles in various terror-related groups. Pre-9/11, Nabi, who is estimated to be in his mid-40s, worked border security for the Taliban – a position that gave him "access to senior Taliban commander and leader of the Haqqani Network, Jalaluddin Haqqani," according to the JTF-GTMO report. Born in the Khowst Province of Afghanistan, Nabi Omari and his family were forced to resettle as refugees though In Miram Shah, Pakistan after the Soviet Union's occupation in Afghanistan. In the late 1980s, Nabi Omari returned to Afghanistan where he fought with the mujahideen against the Soviets. During the early 1990s, he ping-ponged between Taliban-related positions and others, including a stint as a used car salesman. In August 2002, Nabi reportedly helped two al Qaeda operatives smuggle missiles in Pakistan. The weapons were smuggled in pieces and the plan was to reassemble the missiles once all of the pieces had been brought across. Nabi was caught in September 2002 and eventually moved to Guantanamo.
What we don't know is far more important than what we know. I am happy for him and his family, but It seems that Bergdahl may only represent a token. Someone had/has something that we were willing to trade 5 very dangerous men for. Their release is being celebrated and the concept that any low level American hostage will represent a huge bargaining chip cannot be receded. I don't think this will end well, but will reserve judgment until we know what we don't know.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on June 03, 2014, 01:16:52 PM
It is really great that you and gaspar can find so many ways to be upset.
When it comes to Obama...
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131224233033/prettylittleliars/images/f/fb/The_more_you_know_banner.jpg)
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3865382912/h35C5F5E9/)
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on June 03, 2014, 01:34:16 PM
Could be that there are some of us not running around like a bunch of mouth breathing rednecks, and are waiting for some facts to come about. (if the truth ever comes out about Bergdahl's situation.)
Who are freakin referring to? This story has been evolving over the past 3 days, and the facts are coming out. Here's the mouth breather red neck Jake Tapper asking questions, but I guess he is not getting facts to come out.
Quote from: Hoss on June 03, 2014, 04:01:46 PM
I remember reading that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs said that no matter what he allegedly did, the swap was the right thing to do. He also stated that he would be investigated and court martialed if he indeed did desert.
Molehill, meet mountain.
What the hell do you mean mountain/molehill? 5 freakin terrorists that were at Gitmo are now free, and we get in return a possible deserter that reportedly disavowed his own country? The pres. ignores his notification requirements, ticking off his members of his own party? Bergdahl's comrades are ripping him for desertion, and I can only imagine what the families of the soldiers that died looking for Bergdahl must feel.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/208070-white-house-apologizes-to-senate-intelligence
Everyone, hold Mr. Molehill to account if any Americans get taken hostage in the near future and get used as a bargaining chip, or if these 5 killers are involved in any future death or casualties.
Quote from: guido911 on June 03, 2014, 09:01:55 PM
...or if these 5 killers are involved in any future death or casualties.
If?
I think we know better.
Looks like Obama broke at least one law that he signed just months back. Also looks as if they were looking for some sort of uplifting PR in the wake of the VA scandal, something along the lines of the 52 hostages released by Iran in 1981.
QuoteCould Obama be impeached over prisoner swap which brought home soldier who 'walked away' from his unit? Republicans claim deal was ILLEGAL
The president ignored a law – which he signed last year – requiring him to notify Congress 30 days before releasing anyone from Guantanamo Bay
The Obama administration never told Capitol Hill until after Bergdahl was in American custody and the US Taliban prisoners were preparing to leave
A former federal prosecutor told MailOnline that while the 30-day-notice law is probably unconstitutional, putting enemy combatants back in a position to harm Americans is an impeachable offense
A White House insider said Obama administration officials didn't anticipate how controversial Bergdahl's rescue would be, and compared it to the 1981 release of 52 US hostages in Iran
Since Saturday several of Bergdahl's former military comrades have said he was an Army deserter, and some have speculated that he also aimed to join with the Taliban in Afghanistan
An official Pentagon report concluded in 2010 that Bergdahl 'walked away,' so little effort was made to retrieve him, according to the AP
QuoteObama 'clearly violated laws which require him to notify Congress thirty days before any transfer of terrorists from Guantanamo Bay, and to explain how the threat posed by such terrorists has been substantially mitigated,' House Armed Services Committee chairman Rep. Buck McKeon of California and Senate Armed Services Committee ranking member Sen. JIm Inhofe of Oklahoma said Saturday.
'Our joy at Sergeant Berghdal's release is tempered by the fact that President Obama chose to ignore the law, not to mention sound policy, to achieve it.'
What makes the news more controversial still is that many do not see Bergdahl as a hero. Instead he has been branded a 'deserter' by many of his former comrades.
An official Pentagon report in 2010 concluded that he 'walked away' from his post, so the U.S. Army did not exert any extraordinary efforts to find him after an initial flurry of searches, according to an insider who spoke to the Associated Press.
And at least six soldiers lost their lives in circumstances related to the Idaho native's disappearance from his post on June 30, 2009. Parents of one dead military men were told that their son perished in a mission aimed at taking down a Taliban target, not capturing a deserter.
With the circumstances of Bergdahl's disappearance no longer in any substantial doubt, the remaining outrage has focused on the Obama administration's decision to trade five high-value Taliban terror detainees for him – several years after the Pentagon decided he wasn't worth recovering.
Yet it appears the administration believed it would win a PR victory big enough to eclipse any legalistic hand-wringing on Capitol Hill, and whatever objections might surface among the military rank-and-file.
A White House official told MailOnline on Monday morning that Obama's deputies were caught flatfooted by the intensity of public outrage in some quarters after Bergdahl's rescue by Special Forces.
'Everyone thought this would be a January 1981 moment,' the insider said, referring to the negotiated release of 52 U.S. hostages in Iran after 444 days in captivity.
How delusional can you get? Absolutely nothing like the Iran hostage release. Virtually no one had heard of Bergdahl until this weekend, now we find out we swap out five high ranking members of a known terrorist organization for a freaking deserter and people are rushing to defend this grossly incompetent administration yet again. Let's see how many "Well Bush did it" lame comparisons come up.
I can almost see the spittle from the some of the usual suspects in here hitting their screens right now. Love the faux outrage.
All I pointed out is that the Chair of the Joint Chiefs said it was the right thing to do (negotiate for his release). The initial negotiations got underway over two years ago.
And yes, I still say mountain/molehill. I guess some people get a little butthurt easier than others.
People are so eager to blame the current President that they love to grasp at straws. It's a no-win situation for him here. Had he not done it, there would have been outrage. He did it...still, outrage.
How predictable....and petty.
And yes, I'm invoking the "Bush" clause here.
Because he did the exact same thing.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jun/18/steny-hoyer/hoyer-correct-500-guantanamo-detainees-were-releas/
Quote from: Hoss on June 03, 2014, 09:24:09 PM
And yes, I still say mountain/molehill. I guess some people get a little butthurt easier than others.
People are so eager to blame the current President that they love to grasp at straws. It's a no-win situation for him here. Had he not done it, there would have been outrage. He did it...still, outrage.
How predictable....and petty.
Where are you getting this?
Why would anyone be outraged by five leaders of the Taliban being held indefinitely in Gitmo? How is it faux outrage that these guys legitimately may be responsible for the deaths of Americans in the past and now have the ability to do so again?
How can anyone be so glib not to grasp that concept?
Bergdahl is no hero, ostensibly he wanted to renounce his citizenship. I'm even starting to question his "imprisonment" as more information becomes available.
It doesn't matter how long ago the admin started working on this. As far back as 2010, the Pentagon determined Bergdahl was not an asset worth retrieving. If the Admin worked on this for two years, that was two years after it was determined we did not need to find him.
Secondly, the Admin did not go through the legal channels they signed off on to notify Congress prior to releasing enemy combatants.
Third, how is a five to one swap (five high ranking members of the Taliban for one enlisted man) even remotely equitable?
Why do I have the feeling if this had been BushCheneyRummyCo, you would be all over this? I would have been. It's an inexcusable blunder for any administration to do something like this.
This is nothing at all like releasing monetary assets of a nation in exchange for actual hostages held against their will for over a year. This is putting enemies back on the battlefield. What is incredible is someone thought this would be a shining moment like the hostage release was for Reagan after his inauguration in 1981.
I have a feeling Gen. Dempsey is already feeling duped if you watch him slowly walking back his comments. Sure we brought home the last POW, but I don't think he was made aware of the questionable circumstances under which Bergdahl was being held.
I have a feeling I know why Carney resigned last week, he's got a severe case of vertigo from all the spinning already. He was probably worried about vomiting with the nausea over this one.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 03, 2014, 09:43:36 PM
Where are you getting this?
Why would anyone be outraged by five leaders of the Taliban being held indefinitely in Gitmo? How is it faux outrage that these guys legitimately may be responsible for the deaths of Americans in the past and now have the ability to do so again?
How can anyone be so glib not to grasp that concept?
Bergdahl is no hero, ostensibly he wanted to renounce his citizenship. I'm even starting to question his "imprisonment" as more information becomes available.
It doesn't matter how long ago the admin started working on this. As far back as 2010, the Pentagon determined Bergdahl was not an asset worth retrieving. If the Admin worked on this for two years, that was two years after it was determined we did not need to find him.
Secondly, the Admin did not go through the legal channels they signed off on to notify Congress prior to releasing enemy combatants.
Third, how is a five to one swap (five high ranking members of the Taliban for one enlisted man) even remotely equitable?
Why do I have the feeling if this had been BushCheneyRummyCo, you would be all over this? I would have been. It's an inexcusable blunder for any administration to do something like this.
This is nothing at all like releasing monetary assets of a nation in exchange for actual hostages held against their will for over a year. This is putting enemies back on the battlefield. What is incredible is someone thought this would be a shining moment like the hostage release was for Reagan after his inauguration in 1981.
I have a feeling Gen. Dempsey is already feeling duped if you watch him slowly walking back his comments. Sure we brought home the last POW, but I don't think he was made aware of the questionable circumstances under which Bergdahl was being held.
I have a feeling I know why Carney resigned last week, he's got a severe case of vertigo from all the spinning already. He was probably worried about vomiting with the nausea over this one.
Sure if it were Bush I would have been. Wait, how about the outrage with the 500 detainees HE let go at the end of his second term. Where was the damned outrage then?
You can't be effing serious... ::)
Quote from: Hoss on June 03, 2014, 09:48:18 PM
Sure if it were Bush I would have been. Wait, how about the outrage with the 500 detainees HE let go at the end of his second term. Where was the damned outrage then?
You can't be effing serious... ::)
Did you even read the article you posted from Politifart?
QuoteOur only quibble with Hoyer is his use of the word "released." That could be interpreted to mean that under Bush, 500-plus detainees left the center and were immediately freed. But the Pentagon says there is a difference between a release and a transfer to another country. The vast majority of detainees leave Gitmo under a transfer, which means they are transported to another country that places them under some type of restrictions. Some are incarcerated in those countries because of criminal charges, while others face monitoring or travel limitations.
Those may have been low level operatives or street thugs accidentally detained. They sure as heck were not high ranking members of the Taliban and they weren't swapped for a traitor. Dig further and I'll be willing to listen. As of now, apple meet orange.
Again, people are quick to excuse more executive level incompetence by saying it's okay because Bush did it. It's sad people just can't come clean then and say: "You know, I'm really sorry I voted for someone who does all the same stupid stuff Bush did, because I really hated Bush because he was so incompetent."
Quote from: Conan71 on June 03, 2014, 09:55:08 PM
Did you even read the article you posted from Politifart?
Those may have been low level operatives or street thugs accidentally detained. They sure as heck were not high ranking members of the Taliban and they weren't swapped for a traitor. Dig further and I'll be willing to listen. As of now, apple meet orange.
Again, people are quick to excuse more executive level incompetence by saying it's okay because Bush did it. It's sad people just can't come clean then and say: "You know, I'm really sorry I voted for someone who does all the same stupid stuff Bush did, because I really hated Bush because he was so incompetent."
You do realize that these five were not 'freed'. That what happened to them was essentially the same thing as what happened to these 500 others. They were all released to Qatar...a third nation.
And yes, I did read the article.
You should probably remove the recovering part from your title now.
I guess 'no man left behind' means 'only if you aren't accused of deserting'.
I guess it's convenient.
Quote from: Hoss on June 03, 2014, 09:57:29 PM
You do realize that these five were not 'freed'. That what happened to them was essentially the same thing as what happened to these 500 others. They were all released to Qatar...a third nation.
And yes, I did read the article.
You should probably remove the recovering part from your title now.
I guess 'no man left behind' means 'only if you aren't accused of deserting'.
I guess it's convenient.
And we can trust Qatar to keep them on a short leash. Yeah, okay.
According to terms of the release, they are to remain in Qatar (after receiving a hero's welcome) for a year "before they can rejoin their ranks in the Taliban."
Yeah, that's some really severe restrictions. ::)
Hey if you want to keep bailing water from the bilge of the FAILboat go on ahead. That's your prerogative.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 03, 2014, 10:03:10 PM
And we can trust Qatar to keep them on a short leash. Yeah, okay.
According to terms of the release, they are to remain in Qatar (after receiving a hero's welcome) for a year "before they can rejoin their ranks in the Taliban."
Yeah, that's some really severe restrictions. ::)
Hey if you want to keep bailing water from the bilge of the FAILboat go on ahead. That's your prerogative.
Hey, technically, I've got no dog in this hunt. I'm pointing out that technically, they're getting released in the same manner that the 500 that got released were. I pretty much washed my hands of this administration after last year. But watching the screeching from the right when he does something is becoming painful, especially when if he'd let him languish and possible die, there would have been calls for his head.
I'm pretty sure actually that if Obama came out in favor of oxygen, the Republican party would suffocate themselves to prove that they were against it. The hyper-partisanship has become ridiculous and I'm surprised that not more mainstream Republicans haven't come out and complained that their party has been co-opted by a group of nuttier-than-fruitcakes professional lobby monkeys. Not that the Democratic wing of the government is any better. They just aren't imploding within themselves they way the GOP is doing right now.
My fear is that the GOP WILL implode. That wouldn't be good for either party. The mainstream Republicans need to do something to take back their party. Because if you look at the way our current President has governed, he's quite a bit more right of center than most liberals would like. The reason you don't notice is that the crazy train has run the Republicans so far to the right that it makes the moderates look liberal, in their eyes. Hell, I just saw an attack ad tonight by TW Shannon on James Lankford essentially calling him a liberal because he voted on bills that the President approved of. How dare he! How dare they do the job of governing instead of obstructing.
I'm just sick of all of it. And no matter who takes the House and/or Senate in November, it's not getting any better until 2016. And if Hillary runs, watch out. I don't think there's a Republican out there at this moment in time who could touch her. And most Republican pundits know it. Unless they can find someone with lightning in a bottle, I don't even think pressing on Benghazi is going to affect her.
Sorry for the rant. A moment of clarity brought to you by Bulleit Bourbon, I guess...
Quote from: Hoss on June 03, 2014, 09:24:09 PM
I can almost see the spittle from the some of the usual suspects in here hitting their screens right now. Love the faux outrage.
Ah yes. The "faux outrage". Just listen to these conservatives ripping your man-child
And what you are reading in this forum from the usual suspects is what I often call illustrations of "honor" and "character". Words many in here would not ascribe to you.
Quote from: guido911 on June 03, 2014, 11:25:10 PM
Ah yes. The "faux outrage". Just listen to these conservatives ripping your man-child
And what you are reading in this forum from the usual suspects is what I often call illustrations of "honor" and "character". Words many in here would not ascribe to you.
Maybe you and Scott should get together and compare notes. It must be fun being the only two clairvoyants on here.
It's quite hilariouis *YOU* of all people mention honor and character given your propensity for ad hominems on this forum. So full of honor and character when you call people a POS, right?
Yawn.
(http://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10407295_10152760223034881_2494643622340112672_n.jpg)
Well this is great to hear. But its from that redneck Jake Tapper, so take with grain of salt.
Quote(CNN) - Former Army Sgt. Evan Buetow was the team leader with Bowe Bergdahl the night Bergdahl disappeared.
"Bergdahl is a deserter, and he's not a hero," says Buetow. "He needs to answer for what he did."
Within days of his disappearance, says Buetow, teams monitoring radio chatter and cell phone communications intercepted an alarming message: The American is in Yahya Khel (a village two miles away). He's looking for someone who speaks English so he can talk to the Taliban.
"I heard it straight from the interpreter's lips as he heard it over the radio," said Buetow. "There's a lot more to this story than a soldier walking away."
http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2014/06/03/team-leader-bowe-bergdahl-wanted-to-talk-to-taliban/
With each new piece of info, it becomes more probable that Bergdahl is a token. Either there was some very important information/clandestine asset traded, or this was the most amazing example of administrative incompetence ever. Either way, the attempt to do it publicly and use the opportunity as another PR deflection was unwise.
Everyone was celebrating until it was realized this could be used for political fodder.
That's when the conservative side started yelling "traitor", "deserter", "no honor".
"We love the military personnel until it means we might get bruised for supporting someone."
"The VA? Politics? What should we say? Who should we blame so it doesn't land in our laps?"
"Yay, we all freed a hero from 5 years of captivity! Wait...we're spinning it that he's a deserter so the administration doesn't look historic? He's a traitor! A Deserter! We need to attack his family next! Obama's not even a real American citizen!"
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2014, 08:17:33 AM
Everyone was celebrating until it was realized this could be used for political fodder.
That's when the conservative side started yelling "traitor", "deserter", "no honor".
"We love the military personnel until it means we might get bruised for supporting someone."
"The VA? Politics? What should we say? Who should we blame so it doesn't land in our laps?"
"Yay, we all freed a hero from 5 years of captivity! Wait...we're spinning it that he's a deserter so the administration doesn't look historic? He's a traitor! A Deserter! We need to attack his family next! Obama's not even a real American citizen!"
No, it was other members of Bergdahl's unit who came forward with information about his desertion it's not like this is loose speculation put out there by GOP operatives or made up by someone at Faux Snooze. People who actually served with him and can attest to his record.
I'm concerned about the president's National Security Advisor either outright lying about Bergdahl's record when she was praising his service or not being fully briefed on his record in the first place prior to this trade.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 04, 2014, 08:26:22 AM
No, it was other members of Bergdahl's unit who came forward with information about his desertion it's not like this is loose speculation put out there by GOP operatives or made up by someone at Faux Snooze. People who actually served with him and can attest to his record.
I'm concerned about the president's National Security Advisor either outright lying about Bergdahl's record when she was praising his service or not being fully briefed on his record in the first place prior to this trade.
The rats jumped ship as soon as one of them spoke though. He's not even been tried. They were screaming his praises and then defecating on him in a blink of an eye.
Inhofe sure went batshit cra cra. "It's the President's conspiracy."
I'd guess everyone singing his praises were jumping on the political bandwagon as well. When it goes awry, that's when they use their hired spin doctors.
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2014, 08:35:51 AM
The rats jumped ship as soon as one of them spoke though. He's not even been tried. They were screaming his praises and then defecating on him in a blink of an eye.
Inhofe sure went batshit cra cra. "It's the President's conspiracy."
I'd guess everyone singing his praises were jumping on the political bandwagon as well. When it goes awry, that's when they use their hired spin doctors.
Like I said, this could be a solution.
Have the President publicly come out in support of oxygen. His detractors would say 'no oxygen for me'. Problem solved.
The loonies have truly taken over the asylum.
Quote from: Hoss on June 04, 2014, 08:44:16 AM
The loonies have truly taken over the asylum.
Look to your left. Now look to your right. If those persons voted at all, they are prob responsible for many of the loonies in power.
If they didn't vote, I blame them just as much.
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2014, 08:35:51 AM
The rats jumped ship as soon as one of them spoke though. He's not even been tried. They were screaming his praises and then defecating on him in a blink of an eye.
Inhofe sure went batshit cra cra. "It's the President's conspiracy."
I'd guess everyone singing his praises were jumping on the political bandwagon as well. When it goes awry, that's when they use their hired spin doctors.
Here's that batcrap crazy DiFi being all partisan on the issue:
QuoteThe firestorm surrounding the Obama administration's decisions to allow five high level Taliban members to go free in exchange for Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl without the consent of Congress continues to rage on Capitol Hill. As the details of what many see as a bad deal continue to emerge, with many of Bergdahl's fellow soldiers expressing anger and outrage over him being welcomed home as a deserter, many lawmakers are questioning the legality of the swap.
One of those lawmakers is Democrat Senator Dianne Feinstein, who chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Two top lawmakers on the Senate Intelligence Committee said Tuesday that the Obama administration broke the law by not informing Congress before the prisoner exchange that resulted in Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl's release.
Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein and Republican Sen. Saxby Chambliss said the administration violated the law by failing to address serious concerns they had about the deal to swap Bergdahl for five Taliban detainees. Chambliss said he had not had a conversation with the White House about a possible exchange for at least 18 months.
"It comes to us with some surprise and dismay that the transfers went ahead with no consultation, totally not following law," Feinstein told reporters following a closed door meeting. "And in an issue with this kind of concern to a committee that bears the oversight responsibility, I think you can see that we're very dismayed about it ."
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/06/04/watch-bergdahls-fellow-soldiers-parents-of-those-killed-seaching-for-him-react-to-prisoner-swap-n1847494
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2014, 08:48:01 AM
Look to your left. Now look to your right. If those persons voted at all, they are prob responsible for many of the loonies in power.
If they didn't vote, I blame them just as much.
I voted. It's just the way I vote never represents me in Oklahoma. Not complaining, just stating how it is. I used to not cringe because there were many Republicans I'd vote for (Largent used to always get my vote until he decided to call Oklahoma voters stupid). I can't bring myself to vote for any of them now. Not until someone starts making sense and, in the words of their own Bobby Jindal, 'stop being the stupid party'. The sanist Republican in Oklahoma right now is Tom Cole. That means he'll likely get voted out/primaried due to his liberal (aka moderative conservative) 'values'.
Most national Republicans don't seem to have learned the lesson of 2012 I guess. They appear to be alienating the same demographic they stated they needed to win the Presidency again.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 04, 2014, 08:53:04 AM
Here's that batcrap crazy DiFi being all partisan on the issue:
So are you pointing out that a democrat doesn't find it necessary to kowtow to the crazies?
I'm sure everyone will do their best to figure out which way will get the best support from lobby firms and donations to the war chests.
An individual soldier won't matter. It'll be the election issues.
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2014, 09:05:02 AM
So are you pointing out that a democrat doesn't find it necessary to kowtow to the crazies?
I'm sure everyone will do their best to figure out which way will get the best support from lobby firms and donations to the war chests.
An individual soldier won't matter. It'll be the election issues.
I guess I'm missing something. How is it kowtowing to the crazies when you correctly point out a few salient facts:
-The Obama Administration circumvented/ignored/broke a Federal law that the President himself had signed off on.
-This was a lop-sided trade. Why did we trade five known terrorists for one soldier?
-Why did the administration cover up Bergdahl's history when it's become apparent the DOD concluded he was a deserter as far back as 2010 and was not an asset we should recover?
Maybe you and Hoss have become so politically jaded that you assume any criticism is entirely from spite instead of being an honest appraisal of a job not being done competently.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 04, 2014, 09:14:28 AM
I guess I'm missing something. How is it kowtowing to the crazies when you correctly point out a few salient facts:
-The Obama Administration circumvented/ignored/broke a Federal law that the President himself had signed off on.
-This was a lop-sided trade. Why did we trade five known terrorists for one soldier?
-Why did the administration cover up Bergdahl's history when it's become apparent the DOD concluded he was a deserter as far back as 2010 and was not an asset we should recover?
Maybe you and Hoss have become so politically jaded that you assume any criticism is entirely from spite instead of being an honest appraisal of a job not being done competently.
Sounds like you might want to join your fellow clairvoyants, Scott and Tony.
I think the word is actually politically cynical. I'm sick of the crazy from both sides. It's just that one side of the aisle seems to be hogging all the cray cray since oh, about 2008.
Last I checked the Democrats weren't imploding internally.
I think Jon Stewart summed it up perfectly last night:
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/5vv3v2/a-magnificent--wonderful-story
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/1jh7tu/a-magnificent--complicated-clouded-controversial-story
And of course, as is many Republican's
modus operandi, once they offered congratulations and other thoughtful sentiments on social media, they had to walk it back (aka delete) those praises once the spin machine got going
http://mashable.com/2014/06/03/republicans-delete-bowe-bergdahl-praise/
Quote from: Conan71 on June 04, 2014, 09:14:28 AM
I guess I'm missing something. How is it kowtowing to the crazies when you correctly point out a few salient facts:
-The Obama Administration circumvented/ignored/broke a Federal law that the President himself had signed off on.
-This was a lop-sided trade. Why did we trade five known terrorists for one soldier?
-Why did the administration cover up Bergdahl's history when it's become apparent the DOD concluded he was a deserter as far back as 2010 and was not an asset we should recover?
Maybe you and Hoss have become so politically jaded that you assume any criticism is entirely from spite instead of being an honest appraisal of a job not being done competently.
She didn't kowtow to the crazies...I was making fun of the tea party soothers. (GOP who make overly conservative decisions in order to sooth the tea party)
The President also noted, while signing that law, that it would not always be followed. Apparently that's all it took to give him the power to do this. (per NPR story this morning)
Will those 5 be active in terrorizing? Will they want to join or be allowed to join a terrorist org? Are they young enough to make a difference? If you know those answers, let everyone know.
How many would you want to trade for an American prisoner? What's the cut off?
I don't know why someone would choose to cover anything up unless it was good for them politically.
I know I'm jaded. I think most of us are. Most political opinions are from spite because very few know enough to give an educated and honest appraisal.
Quote from: Hoss on June 04, 2014, 09:26:11 AM
Sounds like you might want to join your fellow clairvoyants, Scott and Tony.
Do you think its cool to call people by their first names in here? You do not know me, nor do I care to know you.
Ms. Molehill is weighing in.
QuoteSondra Andrews' son, 2nd Lt. Darryn Andrews, is one of six soldiers killed reportedly while searching for Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl.
The sergeant's return to captivity has stirred "very raw emotions."
"It gets really hurtful when I think, this guy was worth my son's life? My son who was patriotic? Who was a true soldier? Who defended his country with his life?" Andrews told Army Times via phone on Monday. "That guy was worth that? I don't think so."
Andrews also was upset to hear the U.S. government agreed to release five prisoners from Guantanamo Bay in exchange for Bergdahl's freedom.
http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20140602/NEWS/306020055/Gold-Star-mom-guy-worth-my-son-s-life-
Right. Bergdahl is being "swiftboated".
Quote from: guido911 on June 04, 2014, 12:16:21 PM
Ms. Molehill is weighing in.
http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20140602/NEWS/306020055/Gold-Star-mom-guy-worth-my-son-s-life-
I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm asking.
Is it certain the 6 soldiers were killed while searching for Bergdahl? I'd heard this was not known.
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2014, 12:30:29 PM
I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm asking.
Is it certain the 6 soldiers were killed while searching for Bergdahl? I'd heard this was not known.
There is a debate about that, at least from what I heard from the NYT. The families sure as smile think so. Here's a story from the Daily Beast on the subject.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/04/the-hero-who-died-looking-for-bowe-bergdahl.html
Quote from: guido911 on June 04, 2014, 12:39:24 PM
There is a debate about that, at least from what I heard from the NYT. The families sure as smile think so. Here's a story from the Daily Beast on the subject.
I think it should be made sure of.
If Bergdahl is a deserter or not, he should not be made responsible for 6 deaths if they were not killed looking for him. They were killed in the line of duty and for that I have the utmost respect as should everyone. They should not be used by any party to move an agenda.
The general public should reign in the hatred and the families should be informed.
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2014, 12:47:20 PM
I think it should be made sure of.
If Bergdahl is a deserter or not, he should not be made responsible for 6 deaths if they were not killed looking for him. They were killed in the line of duty and for that I have the utmost respect as should everyone. They should not be used by any party to move an agenda.
The general public should reign in the hatred and the families should be informed.
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5886646784/hA2F016BA/)
You say it's obvious in your normal manner but the politicos and news agencies don't seem to agree.
You complain about comments on threads like you're on your period and then post like a pizza supreme a**hole.
Have fun in your mental state. It's gotta be creepy in there.
Quote from: guido911 on June 03, 2014, 11:25:10 PM
Ah yes. The "faux outrage". Just listen to these conservatives ripping your man-child
And what you are reading in this forum from the usual suspects is what I often call illustrations of "honor" and "character". Words many in here would not ascribe to you.
And where was that "honor" and "character" when Baby Bush was pulling his adventures in lying, cheating, and distortion??
Faux outrage.
As far as all the "breaking the law" nonsense being spewed - well there is plenty of public record of discussions with Congress through Dec 2012 about this very topic of prisoner exchange. The law says notice must be given 30 days ahead of time. 18 months certainly qualifies. Unless the Republicontins have another agenda than truth, honor and character....
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2014, 01:13:51 PM
You say it's obvious in your normal manner but the politicos and news agencies don't seem to agree.
You complain about comments on threads like you're on your period and then post like a pizza supreme a**hole.
Have fun in your mental state. It's gotta be creepy in there.
You call me creepy after your misogynist "period" comment? And I'm telling Hoss about your name calling. Nudge him and let him know I'll be calling.
Quote from: Gaspar on June 04, 2014, 05:44:14 AM
With each new piece of info, it becomes more probable that Bergdahl is a token. Either there was some very important information/clandestine asset traded, or this was the most amazing example of administrative incompetence ever. Either way, the attempt to do it publicly and use the opportunity as another PR deflection was unwise.
Whew! My head is spinning right now! A rational thought and expression of same! Good for you!!
This was to get the POW back before we leave completely at the end of the year, and we are "forced" by our own definitions of "enemy combatant" to release all of them anyway....unless the Republicontins in Congress can get the Dems to go along with extending the incarceration - not likely at this point or that. How would they justify holding senior "officials" of a government without trial of a government we are likely to have diplomatic relations with?? It's just another cheap shot attempt by MurdochianWorld to take pot shots.
So, these guys are gonna be released either now or 6 months from now. And if this "trade" had not been made, what leverage would be left with the Taliban as they take over power again to get this guy back?? Still waiting to hear an in depth rational discussion about that.... which ain't gonna happen.
Very good start, Gas! I appreciate this display of a glimmer of hope for you!!
Quote from: Conan71 on June 04, 2014, 08:26:22 AM
No, it was other members of Bergdahl's unit who came forward with information about his desertion it's not like this is loose speculation put out there by GOP operatives or made up by someone at Faux Snooze. People who actually served with him and can attest to his record.
You mean like the "Swift Boat Teabaggers" going after Kerry?? Oh, wait - they didn't serve with Kerry... oops!
All this information is apparently already being distorted by the media PR firm spewing it around - at least two of the soldiers that were supposed to have been killed "out looking" for Bergdahl were actually sitting in the compound....NOT out looking for him. Wouldn't it be nice if there could be some reality first....psychotic ranting second....?
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 04, 2014, 01:23:18 PM
And where was that "honor" and "character" when Baby Bush was pulling his adventures in lying, cheating, and distortion??
Faux outrage.
As far as all the "breaking the law" nonsense being spewed - well there is plenty of public record of discussions with Congress through Dec 2012 about this very topic of prisoner exchange. The law says notice must be given 30 days ahead of time. 18 months certainly qualifies. Unless the Republicontins have another agenda than truth, honor and character....
Hard to take you seriously when you make whatever point with "baby Bush". But since we have to talk about Bush in this thread about a prisoner swap that occurred almost 6 years after he left office, can we discuss Carter's handling of the Iranian hostage crisis too? I still have questions about that. I am also concerned about Clinton. What did he know and when did he know it about bin Laden. Lots of questions about why we were not more aggressive in getting him. And how I wish "daddy" Bush would have went all the way to Baghdad and toppled Saddam at the end of the Gulf war. Could have avoided the 2003 invasion altogether. And don't get me started about Truman, and whether we should have dropped the bombs. We should have invaded the Japanese mainland instead. And why did Lincoln suspend writs of habeas corpus?
Quote from: guido911 on June 04, 2014, 01:32:29 PM
You call me creepy after your misogynist "period" comment?
I didn't say you were creepy. I said, "Have fun in your mental state. It's gotta be creepy in there."
Reading comprehension.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Dive-sig-ok.jpg)
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 04, 2014, 01:38:14 PM
You mean like the "Swift Boat Teabaggers" going after Kerry?? Oh, wait - they didn't serve with Kerry... oops!
All this information is apparently already being distorted by the media PR firm spewing it around - at least two of the soldiers that were supposed to have been killed "out looking" for Bergdahl were actually sitting in the compound....NOT out looking for him. Wouldn't it be nice if there could be some reality first....psychotic ranting second....?
Which two soldiers are you talking about? I am reading between 6 and 14 soldiers may have died in the search. Anyway, if only 1 or 2 died looking for a possible deserter, that's fair. For now, I should be comfortable just ignoring the words of the actual soldiers that went looking for Bergdahl, or the families that were told their loved ones died looking for him. What do they know.
Quote from: guido911 on June 04, 2014, 01:48:41 PM
Which two soldiers are you talking about? I am reading between 6 and 14 soldiers may have died in the search. Anyway, if only 1 or 2 died looking for a possible deserter, that's fair. For now, I should be comfortable just ignoring the words of the actual soldiers that went looking for Bergdahl, or the families that were told their loved ones died looking for him. What do they know.
Reading from what? One of your 100% dependable websites?
Died in the line of duty? It's sad what you imply.
Are you sure these are the words of actual soldiers that went looking for Bergdahl?
Are you hearing 2nd or third hand at best about the families? Any slant where you're getting your info?
Quote from: guido911 on June 04, 2014, 01:32:29 PM
You call me creepy after your misogynist "period" comment? And I'm telling Hoss about your name calling. Nudge him and let him know I'll be calling.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/fc/fcb27bd7bd9b341ed4ac4642205f8dad3724ad4af8eb661b534ebaed1c7dd736.jpg)
Just saw an amazing exchange between Shepard Smith and a veteran on this dispute on Faux news. Smith taking the "let's get the facts" position as to Bergdahl (which is fine), but the vet giving Shep all he could handle.
This site is getting bizarre. Two adult males talking about butts and menstrual periods.
Quote from: guido911 on June 04, 2014, 02:32:53 PM
This site is getting bizarre. Two adult males talking about butts and menstrual periods.
And they're both yours.
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjuw5nTz-oUdkvO_pyHi5acIyphXVTE--wQ7ZtGvoYOLGLKYY3SA)
Oh my
I'm guilty as the next on wheels coming off on posts. I am waiting to hear interviews from a medic in bergdahls unit here shortly.
Quote from: guido911 on June 04, 2014, 01:39:25 PM
Hard to take you seriously when you make whatever point with "baby Bush". But since we have to talk about Bush in this thread about a prisoner swap that occurred almost 6 years after he left office, can we discuss Carter's handling of the Iranian hostage crisis too? I still have questions about that. I am also concerned about Clinton. What did he know and when did he know it about bin Laden. Lots of questions about why we were not more aggressive in getting him. And how I wish "daddy" Bush would have went all the way to Baghdad and toppled Saddam at the end of the Gulf war. Could have avoided the 2003 invasion altogether. And don't get me started about Truman, and whether we should have dropped the bombs. We should have invaded the Japanese mainland instead. And why did Lincoln suspend writs of habeas corpus?
You bet - let's go...Carter handled the Iranian crisis "with the military he had" from Ford/Nixon days - you remember those, don't you, when it was gutted in the aftermath of VietNam...jungle based equipment for use in a sandstorm. And that is actually WHY the Iranians waited until about 15 minutes after inauguration to release the hostages....getting back at Jimmy for the failed attempt to release them. And they knew from early talks with the incoming Reagan people they would get a payoff....much like the repeat payoff about 6 years later for release of hostages held in Lebanon....you did study that in history, didn't you?
And Clinton - well, we know for a fact that he knew about Bin Laden, made at least one attempt to bomb the snot out of him, got obstructed by Newt at every turn, and did actually pass the information on to "Da' W", who sat on his thumbs with it for 9 months! All well publicized in the real mainstream, non-Murdochian media at the time....
As for Daddy - well, he did exactly what should have been done, as has been shown in graphic detail in the last 10 years - left Saddam Hussein in power as the balance in the area. The 2003 adventure was completely unnecessary in any case, and a tragic, horrendous waste of our kids lives!! Our current cluster in the mid-east culminating in the "Arab Spring" events in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, and now Syria all come from the ascendency of Iran as an influence because of the elimination of Hussein.
Truman did the only rational thing.
Lincoln, huh? It all boils down to whether one places states rights above abominable evil....that was the question decided by war. Luckily for the soul of our nation, it was decided correctly, at the expense of the Constitution. Which do you think was the greater evil? And much like today, with Citizen's United declaring a corporation to be a "person" with unalienable, God given rights, an extremist, reactionary Supreme Court was wrong on a massive scale with their decisions on slavery - that's why John Brown was actually a great American hero... but they hanged him anyway.
So now evidence is mounting that may force Bergdahl into a general court marshal situation.
U.S. Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey said Tuesday that the Army may pursue desertion charges against Bergdahl.
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/06/04/soldier-we-were-told-to-keep-quiet-about-bergdahl-leaving-afghan-base/
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/06/bowe_bergdahl_court_martial_the_obama_administration_needs_to_let_the_army.html
According to article 85 section 4 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice he may be facing life in prison or death. I certainly hope that Bergdahl was a top secret agent sent to infiltrate the Talahiban, or something equally outrageous. Otherwise we may have given up 5 high ranking targets for a ward of the state.
It seems he may have made it out of the frying pan.
From what I am reading in here, the issue is that we need to wait for the facts to come out. I think what has triggered much of this is Susan Rice claiming as "fact" that Bergdahl served with distinction and honor, and was captured on the battlefield and held as a POW.
Then you had the President doing that rose garden victory lap with Bergdahl's release, apparently oblivious that there were questionable circumstances surrounding his becoming missing.
For now, all I have heard about Bergdahl's character of service are the first hand accounts from his battalion/platoon/squad members that were THERE alongside him. To me, they are the best source and most reliable information. Far better than Susan Rice, Chuck Hagel, etc. To just dismiss their views or opinions as to what they saw, the increase in hostilities they claim occurred after Bergdahl went missing (combat deaths/casualties) insults their service and intelligence. Besides, what do these soldiers hope to gain by putting their names out there falsely accusing Bergdahl? And why distrust them in favor of the Soros-ian/MSNBC/CBS plot to deceive Americans. Channeling my inner Harrison Alexernder.
Now, I would like someone in here to give us the name of a fellow soldier the administration has found praising Bergdahl's service while in theater. Surely that person exists.
Quote from: guido911 on June 04, 2014, 06:32:50 PM
Now, I would like someone in here to give us the name of a fellow soldier the administration has found praising Bergdahl's service while in theater. Surely that person exists.
Guess we will just have to wait and see what facts actually do exist.
After all, even Kerry found supporters against the "Swift Boat Teabaggers"....from people who actually served with him. Oh, wait....what?
After, of course, the Faux News propaganda machine is shown to be their normal selves....
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 04, 2014, 07:43:00 PM
Guess we will just have to wait and see what facts actually do exist.
After all, even Kerry found supporters against the "Swift Boat Teabaggers"....from people who actually served with him. Oh, wait....what?
After, of course, the Faux News propaganda machine is shown to be their normal selves....
Here's more Jake Tapper from Faux news, er CNN, off message from his Sorosian master.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bergdahl-squad-leader-taliban-attacks-got-more-direct-after-bergdahl-deserted/
This Sorosian plot stuff is fun. I get the appeal now.
Homecoming is canceled.
QuoteU.S. Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl's hometown, feeling a backlash over allegations that he was a deserter, has canceled a rally planned for later this month celebrating his release from five years of Taliban captivity, city officials said on Wednesday.
In calling off the June 28 event, the officials cited concerns that they lacked the resources to safely manage the thousands of supporters and protesters who were expected to converge on the small mountain community of 8,000 residents.
The decision came as pressure mounted to cancel the rally in the face of rising hostility, expressed in a torrent of emails and phone calls directed at city officials and businesses, over claims by Bergdahl's onetime Army comrades that he deliberately abandoned his post in Afghanistan.
http://news.yahoo.com/idaho-hometown-newly-freed-soldier-cancels-planned-celebration-202815856.html;_ylt=AwrBEiKcg49T4QYAFcDQtDMD
What's happened in previous wars when collaborators have been brought back to the United States? There were Americans who not only collaborated, they also fought for the Germans in WW2. And what of those POWs who assisted enemy propaganda in North Korea and Vietnam? Did we leave them overseas? I don't think so.
If the president had decided to leave Bergdahl in the hands of the Taliban, the Republican outcry wouldn't have been less. So Obama was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Given that kind of choice, is it any wonder he decided the Republicans can just go screw themselves and he was going to do what was right. Not popular, but right.
If he'd given the Senate 30 days notice, it would have been wall to wall on Faux News within an hour, cranking up the outrage machine yet again.
I wonder if John McCain would have been OK with leaving some prisoners behind in North Vietnam?
Quote from: Ed W on June 04, 2014, 08:46:45 PM
I wonder if John McCain would have been OK with leaving some prisoners behind in North Vietnam?
Looks like guido's down with it.
Quote from: Ed W on June 04, 2014, 08:46:45 PM
What's happened in previous wars when collaborators have been brought back to the United States? There were Americans who not only collaborated, they also fought for the Germans in WW2. And what of those POWs who assisted enemy propaganda in North Korea and Vietnam? Did we leave them overseas? I don't think so.
If the president had decided to leave Bergdahl in the hands of the Taliban, the Republican outcry wouldn't have been less. So Obama was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Given that kind of choice, is it any wonder he decided the Republicans can just go screw themselves and he was going to do what was right. Not popular, but right.
If he'd given the Senate 30 days notice, it would have been wall to wall on Faux News within an hour, cranking up the outrage machine yet again.
I wonder if John McCain would have been OK with leaving some prisoners behind in North Vietnam?
McCain would probably not be the best example since: 1) He was not alleged to be a deserter; 2) He refused repatriation if his fellow POWs were not released (noticed, I said POW); and 3) He did comment on this, at least as this article claims.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2014/06/03/john-mccainthe-most-disingenuous-hypocritical-member-of-the-senate-or-simply-unfit-to-serve/
As for reporting to Congress, so you think Obama is somehow relieved of his statutory duty to report or give notice to Congress? He didn't even tell DiFi. BTW, he did notify with the bin Laden raid, months and months in advance. Did Faux News blurt it out, thereby warning bin Laden of what was coming? Um, no.
My problem with this is not the decision to get this guy, but the idea we gave up 5 senior level killers in exchange. Then, Obama tried to celebrate Bergdahl's return as if it was the greatest news instead of what it really was--a PR bonanza for the Taliban. Then his administration (apparently) lies about the character of this guys service as distinguished and honorable. Did any of that happen with the Nazi collaborators?
I will say this again, if any of these 5 return to the fight and kill Americans, what will you say then? "Yeah! Obama did the right thing!"
Edited to add. As soon as I left this site, I saw this. From this buffoon:
I mentioned earlier today an exchange on Faux news that I thought was amazing. I found this article that actually commented on it.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/shep-smith-challenges-military-guest-youre-comfortable-condemning-bergdahl-before-we-know-facts/
I know Shepard was obeying is Sorosian master, but this was a great exchange.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 04, 2014, 07:43:00 PM
Guess we will just have to wait and see what facts actually do exist.
After all, even Kerry found supporters against the "Swift Boat Teabaggers"....from people who actually served with him. Oh, wait....what?
After, of course, the Faux News propaganda machine is shown to be their normal selves....
Oh, they just keep making it worse. First Susan Rice goes out again to the Sunday shows with a list of talking points that the White House has to scramble to "clarify" and then other members of the administration take to social media with all kinds of bizarre spin, including implying that Bergdahl's fellow soldiers may be "psychopaths."
Brandon Friedman is the president's Deputy Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Why he is even commenting on this stuff I have no idea. It seems our president as surrounded himself with a rush of fools rabid to defend the administration's incompetence at all costs.
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2897/14351468994_debfe13624.jpg)
He has now scrubbed his twitter and tumbler accounts. He had also made derogatory comments about veterans complaining about VA waiting times.
Quote from: guido911 on June 05, 2014, 01:32:57 AM
McCain would probably not be the best example since: 1) He was not alleged to be a deserter; 2) He refused repatriation if his fellow POWs were not released (noticed, I said POW); and 3) He did comment on this, at least as this article claims.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2014/06/03/john-mccainthe-most-disingenuous-hypocritical-member-of-the-senate-or-simply-unfit-to-serve/
As for reporting to Congress, so you think Obama is somehow relieved of his statutory duty to report or give notice to Congress? He didn't even tell DiFi. BTW, he did notify with the bin Laden raid, months and months in advance. Did Faux News blurt it out, thereby warning bin Laden of what was coming? Um, no.
??? Which side are you supporting here?? The McCain that says it was a bad deal, or the one that said - 3 months ago - that we SHOULD do the deal - in the same article?? Pick one....
As for Congress getting notified - well, they started talking hot and heavy about this with Congress in 2010, and were in direct contact through Dec 2012 - one would have to wonder why that would not be considered notification....? And way more than 1 month ahead of time. (Yeah, I know....that would be "off-script" for the RWRE....)
And given the fact that we are very likely to be releasing all the gitmo guys within the next 6 to 12 months - at least if we follow our own law - please give a specific idea of how it would have been better handled...I would really love to hear this!! Especially given the fact that there would be NO leverage to bargain with after that point, resulting in the situation where all the gitmo's are gone and Bergdahl is still prisoner.
Quote from: Gaspar on June 05, 2014, 09:25:56 AM
Brandon Friedman is the president's Deputy Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Why he is even commenting on this stuff I have no idea. It seems our president as surrounded himself with a rush of fools rabid to defend the administration's incompetence at all costs.
Why is Faux Non-News media PR firm commenting on this stuff? They have no more information than this guy.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2014, 09:27:45 AM
??? Which side are you supporting here?? The McCain that says it was a bad deal, or the one that said - 3 months ago - that we SHOULD do the deal - in the same article?? Pick one....
As for Congress getting notified - well, they started talking hot and heavy about this with Congress in 2010, and were in direct contact through Dec 2012 - one would have to wonder why that would not be considered notification....? And way more than 1 month ahead of time. (Yeah, I know....that would be "off-script" for the RWRE....)
And given the fact that we are very likely to be releasing all the gitmo guys within the next 6 to 12 months - at least if we follow our own law - please give a specific idea of how it would have been better handled...I would really love to hear this!! Especially given the fact that there would be NO leverage to bargain with after that point, resulting in the situation where all the gitmo's are gone and Bergdahl is still prisoner.
"Talking about" and "direct notification" pending release of prisoners 30 days in advance are two completely different things. The administration did not even tell those they were supposed to until AFTER the exchange had taken place.
That would be like me showing up at a client's facility last week and start ripping out a boiler with no prior notice because we talked about possibly replacing their boiler system four years ago.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 05, 2014, 10:08:57 AM
"Talking about" and "direct notification" pending release of prisoners 30 days in advance are two completely different things. The administration did not even tell those they were supposed to until AFTER the exchange had taken place.
That would be like me showing up at a client's facility last week and start ripping out a boiler with no prior notice because we talked about possibly replacing their boiler system four years ago.
Maybe. We don't know what took place in those discussions. I suspect the 30 day thing was glossed over in this case - missed by screw-offs in the admin (you know how I feel generally feel about Obama...he is the big screw-off for many reasons) - but that is just another one of those things we don't know yet.
Boiler - possibly, depending on how those talks went. If instead you had been given a contract and showed up 18 months later, different story. Dec 2012 was not 4 years ago.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2014, 11:45:35 AM
Maybe. We don't know what took place in those discussions. I suspect the 30 day thing was glossed over in this case - missed by screw-offs in the admin (you know how I feel generally feel about Obama...he is the big screw-off for many reasons) - but that is just another one of those things we don't know yet.
Boiler - possibly, depending on how those talks went. If instead you had been given a contract and showed up 18 months later, different story. Dec 2012 was not 4 years ago.
You mentioned talks dating back to 2010. It doesn't matter if it was four years ago or 1 1/2 years ago. Obama signed a law six months ago requiring him to notify Congress 30 days prior to releasing anyone from custody at Gitmo. How do you "gloss" over something like that unless he's even more senile than Reagan was in his waning days in power. It's an example of "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." It's one thing when you do that to your parents as a child. Entirely another when it breaks a Federal law.
The part that really steams me is the Administration is completely flummoxed by the blow-back. They thought this would be a shining PR moment in the wake of the VA scandal. Really?
The "No Man Left Behind" statements would almost be laughable if they werent so sad.
He's not been allowed to talk to anyone, including his family. Perhaps the goal was something not purely humanitarian? ::) ::)
Quote from: patric on June 05, 2014, 12:20:00 PM
The "No Man Left Behind" statements would almost be laughable if they werent so sad.
He's not been allowed to talk to anyone, including his family. Perhaps the goal was something not purely humanitarian? ::) ::)
Cleaning up loose ends before the end of the year when we have to release these guys for nothing....
Quote from: Conan71 on June 05, 2014, 12:15:19 PM
You mentioned talks dating back to 2010. It doesn't matter if it was four years ago or 1 1/2 years ago. Obama signed a law six months ago requiring him to notify Congress 30 days prior to releasing anyone from custody at Gitmo. How do you "gloss" over something like that unless he's even more senile than Reagan was in his waning days in power. It's an example of "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." It's one thing when you do that to your parents as a child. Entirely another when it breaks a Federal law.
The part that really steams me is the Administration is completely flummoxed by the blow-back. They thought this would be a shining PR moment in the wake of the VA scandal. Really?
Between 2010 and Dec 2012...possibly more that just haven't been talked about much. The problem is that every single time there is this kind of huge uproar over anything Obama has done, there is a stack of 5 to 10 times as much "stuff" that Bush did where there was no huge uproar. Tempest in a teacup...hey, I bet that's why they are called tea-baggers!!
6 months ago - as of 2 Jan 2013. Close - only one year off. With signing statements
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/550698-2013ndaa-stm-rel-pdf.html
And if you wanna go all "signey-statment" on us, start here....
http://www.coherentbabble.com/listGWBall.htm
And Obama's....
http://www.coherentbabble.com/listBHOall.htm
Wow!! What a difference personal interpretation of the Constitution makes!!
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2014, 11:53:10 PM
Looks like guido's down with it.
"This guy deserved it" is what I hear from conservatives.
This is the sort of story that does not help, but will rile some folks up. In context, this could evidence Stockholm syndrome.
QuoteU.S. Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl at one point during his captivity converted to Islam, fraternized openly with his captors and declared himself a "mujahid," or warrior for Islam, according to secret documents prepared on the basis of a purported eyewitness account and obtained by Fox News.
The reports indicate that Bergdahl's relations with his Haqqani captors morphed over time, from periods of hostility, where he was treated very much like a hostage, to periods where, as one source told Fox News, "he became much more of an accepted fellow" than is popularly understood. He even reportedly was allowed to carry a gun at times.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/05/exclusive-bergdahl-declared-jihad-in-2010-secret-documents-show/
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2014, 01:21:46 PM
Between 2010 and Dec 2012...possibly more that just haven't been talked about much. The problem is that every single time there is this kind of huge uproar over anything Obama has done, there is a stack of 5 to 10 times as much "stuff" that Bush did where there was no huge uproar. Tempest in a teacup...hey, I bet that's why they are called tea-baggers!!
6 months ago - as of 2 Jan 2013. Close - only one year off. With signing statements
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/550698-2013ndaa-stm-rel-pdf.html
And if you wanna go all "signey-statment" on us, start here....
http://www.coherentbabble.com/listGWBall.htm
And Obama's....
http://www.coherentbabble.com/listBHOall.htm
Wow!! What a difference personal interpretation of the Constitution makes!!
Your Soros-ian master has caused you to either change the subject or move the goal posts. This is what Obama PROMISED as to signing statements.
It should not matter the difference between the number of Obama's signing statements and any other president.
Quote from: guido911 on June 05, 2014, 04:58:59 PM
Your Soros-ian master has caused you to either change the subject or move the goal posts. This is what Obama PROMISED as to signing statements.
It should not matter the difference between the number of Obama's signing statements and any other president.
You gotta be kidding.... Soros??
He and his buddies (like Bloomberg) pledged $175 million to fight FOR gun control..... Really? Have you not paid any attention at all??
Perhaps a "chill pill" is in order...?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v98BJMDDfFY&index=15&list=PL8B3018E27F2455A6
With a twist of good Jamaican bud.....it has been a long time since I visited the Rockies - and what better excuse than today's social conditions?
As for the rest - well, it's all about the perspective. I certainly haven't said Obama is correct with what he did. In the overall scheme of things, it is proportionally much less. I think the pots should not be calling the kettles anything at all.....
So your masters are both Soros and Bloomberg. Okay. Sorosian and Bloombergian plots are behind your posts.
Quote from: guido911 on June 05, 2014, 07:31:48 PM
So your masters are both Soros and Bloomberg. Okay. Sorosian and Bloombergian plots are behind your posts.
Only because you are blinded by the right.....
As for the RWRE - and the LWRE;
It is discouraging to talk with men who will recognize no principles. How little use is made of reason in this world! You argue with a man for an hour, he agrees with you step by step, you are approaching a triumphant conclusion, you think that you have converted him, but, ah, no, he has a habit, he takes a pinch of snuff, he remembers that he entertained a different opinion at the commencement of the controversy, and his reverence for the past compels him to reiterate it now. You began at the butt of the pole to curve it, you gradually bent it round according to rule, and planted the other end in the ground, and already in imagination saw the vine curling round this segment of an arbor, under which a new generation was to recreate itself, but when you had done, it sprang back to its former stubborn and unhandsome position like a bit of whalebone.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2014, 01:12:55 PM
Cleaning up loose ends before the end of the year when we have to release these guys for nothing....
That'll go over like a whatever in church.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpYHJnaIAAAxZh4.png)
Quote from: guido911 on June 05, 2014, 07:53:08 PM
That'll go over like a whatever in church.
Reality is not a popular commodity, as shown by your 80% numbers before.
So, are you saying no trade should have been made?
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2014, 08:26:49 PM
Reality is not a popular commodity, as shown by your 80% numbers before.
So, are you saying no trade should have been made?
We had to bring our guy back. As for the trade, I am withholding judgment. I certainly am not going to celebrate this as a great national event.
Quote from: guido911 on June 05, 2014, 10:40:56 PM
We had to bring our guy back. As for the trade, I am withholding judgment. I certainly am not going to celebrate this as a great national event.
Neither am I. Not until there is a whole lot more information.
Speaking of information - short detour - all 3 of the major Tulsa stations tout their web sites and streaming video. Pretty much all 3 worthless tonight to watch what's going on in Talala! 'Bout what I have come to expect....
Channel 6 was streaming a storm chaser and when he got half way cross the dam on Oologah lake, they went to commercials instead of wall cloud forming a funnel.... yeah...real helpful, guys! 2 and 8 were worse....
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2014, 09:27:45 AM
??? Which side are you supporting here?? The McCain that says it was a bad deal, or the one that said - 3 months ago - that we SHOULD do the deal - in the same article?? Pick one....
As for Congress getting notified - well, they started talking hot and heavy about this with Congress in 2010, and were in direct contact through Dec 2012 - one would have to wonder why that would not be considered notification....? And way more than 1 month ahead of time. (Yeah, I know....that would be "off-script" for the RWRE....)
And given the fact that we are very likely to be releasing all the gitmo guys within the next 6 to 12 months - at least if we follow our own law - please give a specific idea of how it would have been better handled...I would really love to hear this!! Especially given the fact that there would be NO leverage to bargain with after that point, resulting in the situation where all the gitmo's are gone and Bergdahl is still prisoner.
The timeline for full withdrawal from Afghanistan is by the end of 2016 (Gee, why does Obama always pick even years for milestones?). 32,000 troops are at risk of any escalation of violence from the Taliban at this point. We essentially released five four star generals. But we know good ol' Qatar will keep them on a very tight leash and keep them from associating with their old pals, right?
QuoteYet the White House managed to put Bowe Bergdahl's parents next to Obama for the Saturday announcement. They also insisted that the administration had ongoing consultations on the question of trading the five Taliban for Bergdahl. But the two chairs of the intelligence committees – Rep. Mike Rodgers, a Republican, and Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat – both said the last such consultation took place in 2011, and the overwhelming and bipartisan consensus opposed such a deal.
Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) later told Fox News that the file on Bergdahl given to the Senate Intelligence Committee when deliberating on this question never included Bergdahl's note nor the testimony of other soldiers about the nature of his disappearance.
Obama asked Americans to accept his own assurances that the five released detainees would pose no threat to the United States. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel joined him in making those assurances and said that the cases had been reviewed thoroughly. The Daily Beast's Eli Lake and Time Magazine separately reported, however, that the review had been rushed through to get the conclusion desired by the White House. Lake's sources in the defense and intelligence communities called this "forcing the consensus," while Time Magazine's source made it even clearer. "There never was the conversation," the official reported. "This was out of the norm."
Related: The Bergdahl Affair Feeds Right Into 2016
While Hagel backed Obama's story, others at the Pentagon strongly disagreed. Fox reporter Jim Angle reported that one source in the military said, "Many at the Pentagon advised the President not to make the trade." Senior officials at the Department of Defense had warned the White House that releasing these five detainees would be "like handing over five 4-star generals of the Taliban." Releasing them now, rather than at the end of US participation in Afghanistan that Obama plans for 2016, puts more than 32,000 Americans in Afghanistan at risk of these high-ranking Taliban commanders' re-entry into the war.
Nothing about Obama's performance in these scandals and debacles should give anyone confidence in his assurances -- not of security, not of competence, not even of being madder than anyone. The polling numbers suggest that Americans have finally reached a point where the incompetence and dishonesty are just too obvious to ignore any longer.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/relentless-incompetence-americans-giving-obama-100000019.html
Quote from: Conan71 on June 06, 2014, 08:39:18 AM
The timeline for full withdrawal from Afghanistan is by the end of 2016 (Gee, why does Obama always pick even years for milestones?). 32,000 troops are at risk of any escalation of violence from the Taliban at this point. We essentially released five four star generals. But we know good ol' Qatar will keep them on a very tight leash and keep them from associating with their old pals, right?
If you are gonna go with anything Saxby Chambliss has to say, then your credibility is just as shot as his! This is the draft-dodging maggot who blasted a REAL live American hero (Max Cleland - Silver Star, Bronze Star, etc) who lost 3 limbs in VietNam fighting for Saxby's sorry a$$ by claiming Max was good buddies with Osama Bin Laden - showing pictures meant to associate them together. Saxby scrambled hard to get his deferments during the time Max was getting blown to hell and back!
And the whole ad campaign was cooked up with the help of Karl Rove, so that just puts another level of 'lack of credibility' on it. And the entire state of Georgia went along with this, so it just goes to show you exactly where they are coming from!
(http://coffeeforclosers.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/implied-facepalm.jpg)
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 06, 2014, 09:39:03 AM
If you are gonna go with anything Saxby Chambliss has to say, then your credibility is just as shot as his! This is the draft-dodging maggot who blasted a REAL live American hero...
I forgot, which military service were you part of?
edited.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 06, 2014, 09:46:57 AM
So truly, very sad....
This is.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpfOvrvCcAEpJz2.jpg)
Quote from: guido911 on June 06, 2014, 08:07:29 PM
I forgot, which military service were you part of?
edited.
I registered for the draft and did NOTHING to avoid it, even while going to school...no student deferment - unlike all these RWRE "Patriots" who had Daddy jump through every hoop possible to get their physical deferments (Rush Limbaugh for a non-condition), or student (Saxby and his ilk).
Would Salvation Army service count for you?
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 07, 2014, 08:31:49 AM
I registered for the draft and did NOTHING to avoid it, even while going to school...no student deferment - unlike all these RWRE "Patriots" who had Daddy jump through every hoop possible to get their physical deferments (Rush Limbaugh for a non-condition), or student (Saxby and his ilk).
Would Salvation Army service count for you?
So the answer is, No. You registered for the draft, which when I was eighteen was required by every male. Just saying you probably should back of the "chicken hawk" stuff.
Wingnuts: Keeping it classy since 2008.
City, state, and federal authorities are investigating death threats emailed to Bob Bergdahl, father of recently released Bowe Bergdahl.
http://www.newsweek.com/bowe-bergdahls-father-gets-death-threats-253902 (http://www.newsweek.com/bowe-bergdahls-father-gets-death-threats-253902)
This whole story is weird.
QuoteWhile he spent five years in captivity after being captured by Afghan insurgents in 2009, Sgt. Bergdahl doesn't yet want to talk to his family on the phone, the official said. Details of Sgt. Bergdahl's captivity were earlier reported by the New York Times.
Sgt. Bergdahl has likely been shielded from most of the backlash his release has generated in the U.S. Some former platoon soldiers have accused him of deserting his post, and lawmakers from both parties have questioned the decision to trade America's lone prisoner of war in Afghanistan for five Taliban officials held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Local authorities canceled a homecoming celebration in his Idaho hometown because of the backlash. The celebration was canceled specifically because of threats made against the family, officials said.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-official-sgt-bowe-bergdahl-has-declined-to-speak-to-his-family-1402242356?tesla=y&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304315504579612170444661860.html
They should have let this dingle-berry live with his choice.......
Quote from: guido911 on June 07, 2014, 04:10:09 PM
So the answer is, No. You registered for the draft, which when I was eighteen was required by every male. Just saying you probably should back of the "chicken hawk" stuff.
No. I shouldn't. Actually, these guys actively went out of their way, having their Daddy's pull the strings to get them "trumped up" deferments. It's not about me - it's about a guy who was in actual combat, lost 3 limbs from it, was decorated repeatedly, and then was lambasted by losers to the tune of the Senate seat in Georgia. it's about Chambliss and Rove doing what they did - as the draft-dodging weasels that they are.
Still is required of every male at 18.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 08, 2014, 09:38:55 PM
No. I shouldn't. Actually, these guys actively went out of their way, having their Daddy's pull the strings to get them "trumped up" deferments. It's not about me - it's about a guy who was in actual combat, lost 3 limbs from it, was decorated repeatedly, and then was lambasted by losers to the tune of the Senate seat in Georgia. it's about Chambliss and Rove doing what they did - as the draft-dodging weasels that they are.
Still is required of every male at 18.
Were you ever subject to the draft? I'd like to know if you had a high lottery number or were too young to get called up.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 08, 2014, 09:38:55 PM
No. I shouldn't. Actually, these guys actively went out of their way, having their Daddy's pull the strings to get them "trumped up" deferments. It's not about me - it's about a guy who was in actual combat, lost 3 limbs from it, was decorated repeatedly, and then was lambasted by losers to the tune of the Senate seat in Georgia. it's about Chambliss and Rove doing what they did - as the draft-dodging weasels that they are.
Still is required of every male at 18.
Regardless of Chambliss' very brief citation in the article I posted how does the rest of that square with you?
QuoteYet the White House managed to put Bowe Bergdahl's parents next to Obama for the Saturday announcement. They also insisted that the administration had ongoing consultations on the question of trading the five Taliban for Bergdahl. But the two chairs of the intelligence committees – Rep. Mike Rodgers, a Republican, and Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat – both said the last such consultation took place in 2011, and the overwhelming and bipartisan consensus opposed such a deal.
Obama asked Americans to accept his own assurances that the five released detainees would pose no threat to the United States. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel joined him in making those assurances and said that the cases had been reviewed thoroughly. The Daily Beast's Eli Lake and Time Magazine separately reported, however, that the review had been rushed through to get the conclusion desired by the White House. Lake's sources in the defense and intelligence communities called this "forcing the consensus," while Time Magazine's source made it even clearer. "There never was the conversation," the official reported. "This was out of the norm."
While Hagel backed Obama's story, others at the Pentagon strongly disagreed. Fox reporter Jim Angle reported that one source in the military said, "Many at the Pentagon advised the President not to make the trade." Senior officials at the Department of Defense had warned the White House that releasing these five detainees would be "like handing over five 4-star generals of the Taliban." Releasing them now, rather than at the end of US participation in Afghanistan that Obama plans for 2016, puts more than 32,000 Americans in Afghanistan at risk of these high-ranking Taliban commanders' re-entry into the war.
Nothing about Obama's performance in these scandals and debacles should give anyone confidence in his assurances -- not of security, not of competence, not even of being madder than anyone. The polling numbers suggest that Americans have finally reached a point where the incompetence and dishonesty are just too obvious to ignore any longer.
Let's try this again and you can explain why this was such a brilliant idea.
Quote from: guido911 on June 08, 2014, 11:27:31 PM
Were you ever subject to the draft? I'd like to know if you had a high lottery number or were too young to get called up.
I won the lottery!
And now we get the inevitable results of the blind, mindless incitement from the Murdochian PR media company..... death threats to Bergdahl's family...!
To paraphrase "the most interesting man in the world...";
Stay classy, Teabaggers!!
There's no shortage of demented people who get a kick out of emailing death threats for any reason.
Meanwhile, here's that notorious tea-bagger Di-Fi going off again:
QuoteThe chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee raised questions Sunday about the Obama administration argument that Congress wasn't informed about the prisoner swap for Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl because he might have been killed if the deal was made public.
The California Democrat told CBS' "Face the Nation" that she and the committee's top Republican, Georgia Sen. Saxby Chambliss, had been briefed previously about the operation and kept that information confidential.
"We understand the security of that, we have never violated that," said Feinstein, who has raised doubts about the so-called "credible threat" on Bergdahl's life several times since Congress was briefed about his June 5 release in exchange for five Taliban detainees at the U.S. prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
"I have heard of none," she continued.
Feinstein also raised questions about the administration's original argument that Bergdahl's health was in imminent danger, considering the Defense Department told Fox News and other news organizations this weekend that he is being treated for some nutritional deficits that would be considered normal after being in captivity for five years.
"I think his rapid recovery now may indicate he wasn't close to death," she said.
Chambliss said he also has heard no intelligence that supports the argument.
"Because he is in decent health, considering where he's been, they've changed their story," he told CBS. "They said, 'Well, no, we suspected his life might be in danger, if word got out of this pending, possible trade then his life may be in danger. Again, I can just tell you there is no intelligence to support that."
Feinstein also suggested that Congress take a look at the detainee release to make sure the United States "got something meaningful in exchange."
She said there was "no question" about the value of freeing just one U.S. serviceman but that Congress never got the opportunity to comment on what the country should give up in exchange.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 09, 2014, 09:15:00 AM
Regardless of Chambliss' very brief citation in the article I posted how does the rest of that square with you?
Let's try this again and you can explain why this was such a brilliant idea.
We don't have enough information yet to know whether it was a brilliant idea or not. If I were to GUESS, I would say at best, and most likely, it is a non-event - given the fact that we have been negotiating with the Taliban for many years, and are gonna release these guys in a relatively very short time frame anyway. Since they ARE the ones who will be making up the recognized government of Afghanistan going forward! Would be an awkward moment when their Embassy approaches our Embassy about giving back illegally held citizens (under International law). (Small flashback moment to when Hugo Chavez was put in prison by the CIA backed regime of Perez in Venezuela, then released and became the first President elected by an unmolested election - repeatedly. And how about the drum chant here for "regime change" of this massively popular elected official - 65% and more votes - so much for our principles of Democracy.)
Unless we continue to go against International Law by changing our law again to just leave them in Gitmo forever. (I wouldn't actually mind that, but it is very likely to have serious side effects that more than outweigh any benefit.)
I don't imagine much of the Pentagon was in favor of this exchange (much like they were not in favor of Iraq) but that particular thing isn't their call (as it was not in Iraq). You must know by now that I really appreciate that headline - "Relentless Incompetence" - it is such a perfect concise description of this and most of the Presidents we have had in recent decades!! (Maybe we should look at a Presidential committee, with rotating chair, like Switzerland uses...??)
As for other topics - well the VA has been covered quite a bit - it takes much more than a few years to undo decades of BS. There has been progress in the last 5 years, mostly due to stepping up and spending more, which was decades overdue. And the endemic problems that have not yet been corrected date back to years before the 2005 OIG report! (What was that? What did Bush do? Oh, yeah...nothing!!) Shinseki had started to have an effect and made visible forward progress. Tell me again why that is a bad thing? We shall see if the next guy can administrate a continuation of that.
As for Bergdahl, well we certainly have an authoritative source in FauxNews there....with a statement from a former Pentagon official.... Does it not seem just the least bit strange that the Pentagon would find that it was "incontrovertible" that Bergdahl had left the unit when he disappeared on June 30, 2009 - and then NOT formally accuse him of at least desertion? Obviously there must be more to the story, but that would not fit "The Script" would it?? And why would this remain classified for all this time - that is a fairly mundane type event that under the limited specific information available would seem to indicate a pretty cut and dried administrative thing.
What exactly does all this mean - dissemination maybe?
"The military investigation was broader than a criminal inquiry, this official said, and it didn't formally accuse Bergdahl of desertion. In interviews as part of the probe, members of his unit portrayed him as a naive, "delusional" person who thought he could help the Afghan people by leaving his Army post, said the official, who was present for the interviews."
Whole lot of jumping to conclusions going on. And the comments from his other unit members are decidedly different from the above. I wonder who has been 'coaching' them??
Polls are the lowest common denominator of intellectual activity.
And bottom line - we got drones! And I wonder if maybe those guys have been "chipped" so we can follow their movements? Maybe there is some benefit to letting them go, and then watch where they run to - kind of like watching a few cockroaches to see where they go, so you can apply the proper "treatment" for complete extermination!
The big IF here is these were high-level operatives from the Taliban. There's nothing to keep them from directing an insurgency while we still have our men over there for the next year and a half. That's the most troubling issue as I see it.
Aside from that, the White House keeps changing their story as to why there was not adequate time to notify Congress of the impending trade. It's just like Benghazi all over again. Keep telling stories and hope one of them will stick.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 09, 2014, 09:51:53 AM
And now we get the inevitable results of the blind, mindless incitement from the Murdochian PR media company..... death threats to Bergdahl's family...!
To paraphrase "the most interesting man in the world...";
Stay classy, Teabaggers!!
I think these threats were from a Soros-ian/Bloomberg-ian plot, masked as a Murdochian PR company.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 09, 2014, 12:55:39 PM
The big IF here is these were high-level operatives from the Taliban. There's nothing to keep them from directing an insurgency while we still have our men over there for the next year and a half. That's the most troubling issue as I see it.
Aside from that, the White House keeps changing their story as to why there was not adequate time to notify Congress of the impending trade. It's just like Benghazi all over again. Keep telling stories and hope one of them will stick.
Just read the NYT is blaming the Bergdahl desertion on his raggedly unit.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 09, 2014, 09:50:07 AM
I won the lottery!
Congratulations. You are entitled to call people chicken hawks!!! ::)
Quote from: guido911 on June 09, 2014, 01:22:15 PM
Congratulations. You are entitled to call people chicken hawks!!! ::)
I wouldn't even use that word for those clowns. Admin would censor for what I really call them....
I have completely and totally fulfilled ALL of my most fundamental rights/responsibilities of citizenship - I vote, and I have done jury duty, and I pay all the taxes I am required to pay! Everything else is optional - I may be a conscientious objector (not enough information has been provided here) to military duty that would give me a legitimate exemption from same.
Wasn't Richard Nixon eligible to be a conscientious objector, by being a Friend...? Or did that religious proscription only apply to personal military duty, not to sending hundreds of thousands to fight a war his religion would not permit him to serve in? But wait - as Commander in Chief, wouldn't that by definition mean he was serving in the military??
I have never even been called to jury duty. I guess I fail the citizenship test. As for a conscientious objector, I am reminded of this:
Quote from: guido911 on June 09, 2014, 03:04:09 PM
I have never even been called to jury duty. I guess I fail the citizenship test. As for a conscientious objector, I am reminded of this:
You mean Richard Nixon....
You probably never will get to fulfill that part of your civic duty - jury duty. Too bad...would give you an interesting perspective from the other side.
Everyone can get off Obama's back on the Bergdahl swap now. Chuck Hagel made the call.
https://twitter.com/OutFrontCNN/status/476145559129300992
Quote from: guido911 on June 09, 2014, 07:34:23 PM
Everyone can get off Obama's back on the Bergdahl swap now. Chuck Hagel made the call.
https://twitter.com/OutFrontCNN/status/476145559129300992
That's funny. Do you suppose Hagel had any input from his generals?
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 09, 2014, 08:25:12 PM
That's funny. Do you suppose Hagel had any input from his generals?
I'd be more focused on the tread marks all over Hagel's body from the bus which he just got thrown under.
This swap is bringing out the worst in the republicans. Just listen to this winger going after Obama.
Yes I know. Obviously racism, and Bush's fault.
Quote from: guido911 on June 09, 2014, 08:35:13 PM
I'd be more focused on the tread marks all over Hagel's body from the bus which he just got thrown under.
Will have to look for pictures of that....see if they match the bus tires I am trying to get....
Once again, Jon Stewart does what he does best. Puts things into perspective.
Muslim terrorist Kennedy assassin. Yes. That must be it!! Rupert tells us so!!
Something occurred to me yesterday. Obama is a lame duck, but he would want to provide cover to as many Democrats as possible with looming elections. I'm beginning to think the appropriate committee members knew of the swap in advance and are feigning indignity to CYA.
And I also suspect the line on Bergdahl will become he had PTSD, he was bullied by others in his unit, we should all be ashamed of ourselves for calling him a deserter, and his comrades were a bunch of lying bullies who have close ties to the Tea Party.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 10, 2014, 10:10:03 AM
Something occurred to me yesterday. Obama is a lame duck, but he would want to provide cover to as many Democrats as possible with looming elections. I'm beginning to think the appropriate committee members knew of the swap in advance and are feigning indignity to CYA.
And I also suspect the line on Bergdahl will become he had PTSD, he was bullied by others in his unit, we should all be ashamed of ourselves for calling him a deserter, and his comrades were a bunch of lying bullies who have close ties to the Tea Party.
They are already working on that, but it's not building traction.
Leaders are defined by their ability to take charge of an issue, and manage all of the details through to a solution. This means surrounding him/herself with the best assets, listening to the most experienced advisors, and learning from history. A leader also must anticipate and plan for multiple possible outcomes (both positive and negative), everything is a proactive detail-oriented exercise. Failures (and there are always failures) are handled with dignity and personal responsibility. Reaction is to admit the absence of planning. Blame is to admit the absence of leadership.
Hagle is now responsible for this. We will soon learn that the president only learned about the swap after it was too late.
The wheels on the bus go round and round.
Quote from: Gaspar on June 10, 2014, 10:47:30 AM
They are already working on that, but it's not building traction.
Leaders are defined by their ability to take charge of an issue, and manage all of the details through to a solution. This means surrounding him/herself with the best assets, listening to the most experienced advisors, and learning from history. A leader also must anticipate and plan for multiple possible outcomes (both positive and negative), everything is a proactive detail-oriented exercise. Failures (and there are always failures) are handled with dignity and personal responsibility. Reaction is to admit the absence of planning. Blame is to admit the absence of leadership.
Hagle is now responsible for this. We will soon learn that the president only learned about the swap after it was too late.
The wheels on the bus go round and round.
Oh, you mean he learned of it the same way all sensitive news is disseminated to him?
(http://photos.merinews.com/upload/imageGallery/bigImage/1248072342748-barack%20obama.jpg)
I guess I shouldn't be so harsh on my judgement of releasing the five Talibani since they are a largely impotent group of fun-loving, peaceful guys these days:
QuotePakistan militants launch new attack on Karachi airport; Taliban claims responsibility
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Armed militants launched another assault on Karachi's international airport Tuesday afternoon, shutting down airport operations for the second time in two days.
Around noon, "three to four terrorists" attacked a Karachi Airport Security Force base next to the airport, an army spokesman said.
All flights were immediately halted, and hundreds of Pakistani army commandos, rangers and police rushed to the scene. Pakistani news channels aired live footage of an ensuing gun battle, but security officials said the militants escaped on motorcycles.
There were no reported injuries, and airport operations resumed about two hours later.
The Pakistani Taliban took responsibility for Tuesday's attack. The radical Islamist group launched an assault late Sunday on Jinnah International Airport, resulting in a six-hour gun battle that left 36 people dead, including a dozen airport security personnel, four employees of Pakistani International Airlines and all 10 attackers. Seven of the dead were found Tuesday in a cold-storage facility. No passengers were harmed.
"Today's attack is a continuation of Monday's action," Shahidullah Shahid, a Taliban spokesman, said in a statement. "We will continue our activities until we achieve our goals."
The Pakistani Taliban has built an increasing presence in Karachi, the country's largest city, and appears poised to inflict further damage despite a split in its ranks, government leaders and analysts said.
Pakistani officials said the 10 heavily armed militants who assaulted the airport on Sunday night had hoped to destroy some planes, hijack others and take hostages.
"The terrorists had a plan to bring down our aviation industry," said Mohyuddin Ahmad Wani, a spokesman for Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. "The valiant effort of [security forces] defeated the terrorists, and the national assets were saved."
Early Tuesday, the bodies of seven airport employees were found in a locked cold-storage facility at the airport. Frantic relatives said the workers had sought refuge there during the attack and contacted them by phone, Pakistani newspapers reported. It was not immediately clear why authorities were not able to free them.
The attack Tuesday appear to originate from a large slum that surrounds the airport, the same area that the militants used to gain entry to airport grounds on Sunday night.
The back-to-back attacks will likely to raise serious concerns about the safety of commercial flights at the airport, which serves Pakistan's largest city.
Armed militants launched an attack near Jinnah International Airport in Karachi, the second such attack that has closed down the airport in recent days. The Pakistani Taliban has claimed responsibility for both attacks.
But Maj. Gen. Asim Saleem Bajwa, the head of Pakistan's Inter Services Public Relations agency, noted that the assailants on Tuesday were repelled by security forces.
"No breach of [airport] fence, no entry," Bajwa said in a statement. The "chase is on and situation under control."
The attack occurred a few hours after the Pakistani military announced it had resumed airstrikes in Pakistani tribal areas. An army spokesman said 25 militants were killed in the airstrikes in the remote Tirah Valley, which is home to numerous Pakistani Taliban fighters.
"If a bullet is fired from this side, then a bullet would come the other side, too, and vice-versa," Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan said in a speech to the National Assembly on Tuesday, just moments before the latest Karachi airport attack began. "We shall be ready to face such unfortunate incidents and to foil them."
He added, "We need to face and acknowledge the facts: The country is in a war-like situation, and we are in a conflict zone."
In response, authorities tightened security at airports across Pakistan.
Pakistan's Express Tribune News reported that security officials at Islamabad airport in the capital have been given a "shoot-on-sight order . . . against suspicious individuals."
Sohail Raheem, an airport security official in Peshawar in northwestern Pakistan, said three concrete walls are being built around the runway.
"The Karachi airport [on Sunday night] was an eye-opener," Raheem said.
The Pakistani Taliban has carried out a bloody fight since 2007 to impose a harsh version of Islamic law. Two weeks ago, a major faction announced that it was breaking away from the group because its leader, Maulana Fazlullah, had become too violent and undisciplined. Some analysts saw the split as a hopeful sign that the insurgency was weakening.
Now, the raids on the airport demonstrate that the Pakistani Taliban remains a formidable threat to the nuclear-armed country, analysts say.
In a statement Monday, Shahid, the Pakistani Taliban spokesman, said the attack was in response to recent Pakistani military air operations targeting the group and to a U.S. drone strike in November that killed its leader, Hakimullah Mehsud.
Shahid added that the assault should be viewed as a sign that Sharif's efforts to engage the group in peace talks had failed.
"The main goal of this attack was to damage the government, including by hijacking planes and destroying state installations," Shahid said, according to Reuters news agency. The attackers had intended to seize aircraft at the airport's old terminal, which is used for VIP flights and cargo, he said.
Most analysts believe Pakistan's military is eager to begin a sustained military operation against the Taliban. Over the past two weeks, about two dozen Pakistani military commanders and soldiers have been killed in attacks attributed to the group.
Aamir Iqbal in Peshawar, Shaiq Hussain in Islamabad and Nisar Mehdi in Karachi contributed to this report.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/pakistan-militants-launch-new-attack-on-karachi-airport-taliban-claims-responsibility/2014/06/10/c84d8fda-f08b-11e3-9ebc-2ee6f81ed217_story.html
Quote from: Conan71 on June 10, 2014, 04:24:24 PM
I guess I shouldn't be so harsh on my judgement of releasing the five Talibani since they are a largely impotent group of fun-loving, peaceful guys these days:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/pakistan-militants-launch-new-attack-on-karachi-airport-taliban-claims-responsibility/2014/06/10/c84d8fda-f08b-11e3-9ebc-2ee6f81ed217_story.html
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.... literally!!
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 10, 2014, 04:25:29 PM
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.... literally!!
What's the over/under on how long it takes for the U.S. to get sucked into a conflict in Pakistan to help protect their nuclear assets from falling into the wrong hands?
Quote from: Conan71 on June 10, 2014, 04:28:11 PM
What's the over/under on how long it takes for the U.S. to get sucked into a conflict in Pakistan to help protect their nuclear assets from falling into the wrong hands?
What...you don't thing we already been doing that to the tune of $25 billion a year for how many years??
So are the ISIS fighters, other than being former al Qaeda, in anyway connected to the Taliban?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/insurgents-seize-iraqi-city-of-mosul-as-troops-flee/2014/06/10/21061e87-8fcd-4ed3-bc94-0e309af0a674_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/insurgents-seize-iraqi-city-of-mosul-as-troops-flee/2014/06/10/21061e87-8fcd-4ed3-bc94-0e309af0a674_story.html)
http://situationroom.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/23/brutal-terrorist-group-showcases-their-violence-in-glossy-new-video/ (http://situationroom.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/23/brutal-terrorist-group-showcases-their-violence-in-glossy-new-video/)
Quote from: Conan71 on June 10, 2014, 04:24:24 PM
I guess I shouldn't be so harsh on my judgement of releasing the five Talibani since they are a largely impotent group of fun-loving, peaceful guys these days:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/pakistan-militants-launch-new-attack-on-karachi-airport-taliban-claims-responsibility/2014/06/10/c84d8fda-f08b-11e3-9ebc-2ee6f81ed217_story.html
Yes. They are simply misunderstood and need a hug. Just try and keep the cutlery away from Fazi. He gets carried away around infidels sometimes.
(http://www.bookwormroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Mohammed-Fazi.jpg)
Taliban probation tracking device.
(http://auroramediagrp.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/asuplads/Electronic-Monitoring_Kabi.jpg)
Quote from: dbacksfan 2.0 on June 10, 2014, 04:33:20 PM
So are the ISIS fighters, other than being former al Qaeda, in anyway connected to the Taliban?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/insurgents-seize-iraqi-city-of-mosul-as-troops-flee/2014/06/10/21061e87-8fcd-4ed3-bc94-0e309af0a674_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/insurgents-seize-iraqi-city-of-mosul-as-troops-flee/2014/06/10/21061e87-8fcd-4ed3-bc94-0e309af0a674_story.html)
http://situationroom.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/23/brutal-terrorist-group-showcases-their-violence-in-glossy-new-video/ (http://situationroom.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/23/brutal-terrorist-group-showcases-their-violence-in-glossy-new-video/)
There are no Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Never was, remember? ::)
Quote from: Conan71 on June 10, 2014, 07:58:53 PM
There are no Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Never was, remember? ::)
I forgot!
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130909105555/pacificrim/images/0/09/Homer-Simpson-wingnuts-doh.gif)
Just when the Bergdahl thing could not get weirder, it does.
QuoteBefore he became a Taliban prisoner, before he wrote in his journal "I am the lone wolf of deadly nothingness," before he joined the Army, Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was discharged from the Coast Guard for psychological reasons, said close friends who were worried about his emotional health at the time.
The 2006 discharge and a trove of Bergdahl's writing — his handwritten journal along with essays, stories and e-mails provided to The Washington Post — paint a portrait of a deeply complicated and fragile young man who was by his own account struggling to maintain his mental stability from the start of basic training until the moment he walked off his post in eastern Afghanistan in 2009.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/bergdahls-writings-reveal-a-fragile-young-man/2014/06/11/fb9349fe-f165-11e3-bf76-447a5df6411f_story.html?hpid=z1
Well, the GAO has weighed in. They do this sometimes.
QuoteThis responds to your June 13, 2014, request for our opinion on whether the
Department of Defense (DOD) incurred obligations in violation of section 8111 of the
Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2014 when it transferred five individuals
detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to the nation of Qatar. Section 8111 prohibits
DOD from using appropriated funds to transfer any individuals detained at
Guantanamo Bay unless the Secretary of Defense notifies certain congressional
committees at least 30 days before the transfer. Pub. L. No. 113-76, div. C, title VIII,
§ 8111, 128 Stat. 5, 131 (Jan. 17, 2014).
As explained below, we conclude that DOD violated section 8111 because it did not
notify the relevant congressional committees at least 30 days in advance of the
transfer. In addition, because DOD used appropriated funds to carry out the transfer
when no money was available for that purpose, DOD violated the Antideficiency Act.
The Antideficiency Act prohibits federal agencies from incurring obligations
exceeding an amount available in an appropriation. 31 U.S.C. § 1341(a).
http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/665390.pdf
Quote from: guido911 on August 21, 2014, 08:38:28 PM
Well, the GAO has weighed in. They do this sometimes.
http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/665390.pdf
What's the over/under on how many hours it takes for prominent Dims to explain how the GAO is almost always wrong when it doesn't suit their agenda?
Quote from: Conan71 on August 22, 2014, 12:16:02 AM
What's the over/under on how many hours it takes for prominent Dims to explain how the GAO is almost always wrong when it doesn't suit their agenda?
I'm going with the "GAO is racist".
Quote from: guido911 on August 22, 2014, 12:57:04 AM
I'm going with the "GAO is racist".
I thought they already established that?