(http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-BH316_PaulRy_G_20140129171452.jpg)
I love this. Ryan has a plan to provide a legal pathway for illegal immigrants. The Smoking Cheeto is on board too, and it has the core of the Republican party in an uproar. Some are calling it a career-ender for any republican that supports it. I think it represents a great common sense plan and many Democrats are supporting it too!
First, illegal immigrants would be offered a "probationary" status, allowing them to work while the government tightened border security and interior enforcement. Officials have explained that this would allow people to work legally while they wait for permanent legal status. (Officials have explained that this group could revert to illegal status if enforcement benchmarks are not met.)
Mr. Ryan said it would make sure that the Obama administration went ahead with the enforcement provisions. "We want to make sure that we write a law that he can't avoid," Mr. Ryan said.
After that, they would be eligible for a "regular work permit," he said.
"If those things are met, you satisfy the terms of your probation, you're not on welfare, you pay a fine, you learn English and civics, and the border's been secured and interior enforcement independently verified, then you can get a regular work permit," he said.
At that point, this group could apply for green cards using the same system available to any newcomer.
"That's the kind of process we envision," he said. "Which is not a special pathway to citizenship and it's not going to automatically in any way give an undocumented immigrant citizenship." http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/01/29/rep-ryan-gop-looking-at-legal-status-chance-for-citizenship/
With this plan, those who are actually coming to this country for opportunity, get the opportunity to become citizens and those who are immigrate to become dependent on the state are not eligible. Truth is that the vast majority of folks that come here from Mexico are here to work and build a future for their families. These people have a much stronger work ethic than the average American and unfortunately their native country does not offer the opportunity to capitalize on that.
I also like this plan because it would make the vast majority of immigrants hirable by legitimate law abiding companies, and encourage a higher caliber of immigrant to seek employment in the US. Sure, we need lots of manual labor, but we also need those with entry level technical skills who are willing to do the work, and learn new trades.
I think the influx of new workers with a strong Mexican work ethic will improve the overall labor pool in the US, and basically raise the bar for everyone. Of course unions are upset, but unions are in the death spiral anyway, and displacing the union mentality with the opportunity mentality is exciting.
There's really no other logical or practical way to approach immigration reform. If you were to round up all undocumented workers and deport them, the U.S. economy would be thrown into turmoil. From personal experience of 30 years in the workforce, the work ethic of Asian and Latino immigrants is impeccable.
Republican's one fear of this is the meme that it automatically creates millions of new Democrat voters. I find that highly suspect since the family values of the Hispanic community are largely in line with the stated social values of the GOP. Doing the right thing should never hinge on one's own re-electablity.
Quote from: Conan71 on January 30, 2014, 09:23:35 AM
There's really no other logical or practical way to approach immigration reform. If you were to round up all undocumented workers and deport them, the U.S. economy would be thrown into turmoil. From personal experience of 30 years in the workforce, the work ethic of Asian and Latino immigrants is impeccable.
Republican's one fear of this is the meme that it automatically creates millions of new Democrat voters. I find that highly suspect since the family values of the Hispanic community are largely in line with the stated social values of the GOP. Doing the right thing should never hinge on one's own re-electablity.
Most Hispanics are extremely conservative, pious, humble and independent. They are also willing to do twice the work at twice the quality to elevate themselves above their fellow workers. We need more of those ideals to combat a couple generations of entitlement seekers that currently infect our workforce.
If Republicans are smart enough to get on board (and I'm not convinced they are) this will become a win-win for both parties. Republicans will gain more support from the Hispanic community and Democrats will receive more dependents (in the form of displaced American workers) willing to vote for a living.
Quote from: Gaspar on January 30, 2014, 11:38:00 AM
Most Hispanics are extremely conservative, pious, humble and independent. They are also willing to do twice the work at twice the quality to elevate themselves above their fellow workers. We need more of those ideals to combat a couple generations of entitlement seekers that currently infect our workforce.
If Republicans are smart enough to get on board (and I'm not convinced they are) this will become a win-win for both parties. Republicans will gain more support from the Hispanic community and Democrats will receive more dependents (in the form of displaced American workers) willing to vote for a living.
Wow, so what are most non Hispanics like? How about most women and Asians? Have any opinions about most Jews?
Quote from: Townsend on January 30, 2014, 12:11:36 PM
Wow, so what are most non Hispanics like? How about most women and Asians? Have any opinions about most Jews?
Do you have a problem with a people being complemented for their culture?
Quote from: Gaspar on January 30, 2014, 12:21:13 PM
Do you have a problem with a people being complemented for their culture?
This is not surprising.
Quote from: Townsend on January 30, 2014, 12:24:17 PM
This is not surprising.
(http://whitsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/spongebob-meme-nobodycares.jpeg)
Moving on. . .unless you wish to expound.
Quote from: Townsend on January 30, 2014, 12:11:36 PM
Wow, so what are most non Hispanics like? How about most women and Asians? Have any opinions about most Jews?
In case anyone was wondering what the definition of "Race Baiting" or "Gender Bating" is, we have a glorious example right here. ^^^
(http://mjfellright.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/race-baiting-for-dummies.jpg)
Marvelous! You read the book.
P.S. Hispanic is not even a race. They are a wonderfully diverse culture.
Quote from: Gaspar on January 30, 2014, 12:33:47 PM
In case anyone was wondering what the definition of "Race Baiting" or "Gender Bating" is, we have a glorious example right here. ^^^
Marvelous! You read the book.
P.S. Hispanic is not even a race. They are a wonderfully diverse culture.
Never said it was. It's amazing you feel as though you can generalize so many the way you do.
Do you consider your knowledge of Hispanics so great that others should pay attention to the way you feel about them?
You fit in the stereotype that people are blown away by when they hear it from televangelists, tea party reps, and conservative politicians.
Quote from: Townsend on January 30, 2014, 12:45:51 PM
Never said it was. It's amazing you feel as though you can generalize so many the way you do.
No need for you to play coy, we know what you were trying to do with your post.
Do you consider your knowledge of Hispanics so great that others should pay attention to the way you feel about them?
Not at all, but for 5 years I had nearly 300 seasonal folks that worked for me, most from Mexico and Central America, and I have a deep respect for their culture and ethics.
You fit in the stereotype that people are blown away by when they hear it from televangelists, tea party reps, and conservative politicians.
Really can't make anything intelligible out of this sentence. Sorry.
It upsets me that you distract me. I will try harder to ignore your snipes, however, you are to be commended on your ability to be inflammatory.
Quote from: Gaspar on January 30, 2014, 12:52:16 PM
It upsets me that you distract me. I will try harder to ignore your snipes, however, you are to be commended on your ability to be inflammatory.
I'm surprised you didn't say "You people".
This issue may be the primary issue for Republicans in the midterms. I have a feeling they will fail to actually recognize the will of their base yet again, but who knows. There is a lot of time and opportunity for reason to creep in.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/immigration-gop-retreat-boehner/2014/01/30/id/549922
House Speaker John Boehner, Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, and other leaders in the House are planning to make a case for taking up a controversial plan that could include some path to citizenship for millions of illegal immigrants during the annual GOP retreat under way in Maryland.
Among the most contentious issue is a push by Boehner to pass some sort of immigration reform this year even as weary Republicans face tough midterm elections back home, The Hill reports.
On Thursday, secluded at a bayside hotel on Maryland's Eastern Shore for a three-day closed-door retreat, Republicans were thrashing out policy principles, guidelines for the 2014 mid-term election campaign, and ways to find common ground with President Barack Obama.
So are these individual immigrants on probationary status the ones who are supposed to secure the border and have effective interior enforcement (the second of which sounds like some Gestapo smile to me), or does Ryan's bill tie their status to things completely unrelated to them for no particular reason at all?
Quote from: Gaspar on January 30, 2014, 11:38:00 AM
Most Hispanics are extremely conservative, pious, humble and independent. They are also willing to do twice the work at twice the quality to elevate themselves above their fellow workers. We need more of those ideals to combat a couple generations of entitlement seekers that currently infect our workforce.
Direct experience - there is much truth to what you say....ex-inlaws were Mexican and were wonderful people - them I miss. Many of whom were by definition, criminals - illegally in this country.
Would that criminal aspect of it be one of those ideals we need more of - since that is inherently the very first item related to their being here...?
Just gotta wonder why the RWRE has finally, at long, long last decided to address the reality of our country?? Beyond just issuing the invitation to people to come here so their buddies can have cheap labor. (Oh...another opportunity to put in a pitch for John Pickle company, even if it was Indians rather than Hispanics...)
The type of person that would move thousands of miles against the fear of prosecution and persecution into a strange land in order to better their lives and their children's lives is what this country was built on.
Quote from: Gaspar on January 30, 2014, 11:38:00 AM
and Democrats will receive more dependents (in the form of displaced American workers) willing to vote for a living.
This is just not true. Not a single word of it.
Quote from: carltonplace on February 05, 2014, 09:07:52 AM
This is just not true. Not a single word of it.
CP, remember the source....
Quote from: swake on February 05, 2014, 08:13:57 AM
The type of person that would move thousands of miles against the fear of prosecution and persecution into a strange land in order to better their lives and their children's lives is what this country was built on.
That's why my family came here. That, and Nazis.
Right Hoss, the poor are lazy and immigrants are criminals. All Hail the rich and their wonderful crumbs that fall from on high and into our gutter.
Quote from: carltonplace on February 05, 2014, 09:23:54 AM
Right Hoss, the poor are lazy and immigrants are criminals. All Hail the rich and their wonderful crumbs that fall from on high and into our gutter.
Actually, the illegals are criminals.... by definition.
Quote from: carltonplace on February 05, 2014, 09:23:54 AM
Right Hoss, the poor are lazy and immigrants are criminals. All Hail the rich and their wonderful crumbs that fall from on high and into our gutter.
No CP. The poor and lazy are not criminals. In this country we are free to choose how we live our lives and what we are able to achieve. We are therefore products of our choices and circumstance. What is criminal, is when others tell us that we are unable to achieve, or that we are products of circumstance alone. What is worse is when politicians use that mindset to their advantage and perpetuate it for their benefit.
Also, not all lazy people are poor, and not all poor are lazy.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 06, 2014, 05:50:06 AM
No CP. The poor and lazy are not criminals. In this country we are free to choose how we live our lives and what we are able to achieve. We are therefore products of our choices and circumstance. What is criminal, is when others tell us that we are unable to achieve, or that we are products of circumstance alone. What is worse is when politicians use that mindset to their advantage and perpetuate it for their benefit.
Also, not all lazy people are poor, and not all poor are lazy.
Tell Tea Party members that and you'll likely get laughed at.
Quote from: Hoss on February 06, 2014, 07:36:44 AM
Tell Tea Party members that and you'll likely get laughed at.
Do you know any Tea Party members?
Quote from: Gaspar on February 06, 2014, 07:41:17 AM
Do you know any Tea Party members?
Almost the whole of one side of my family..yes.
Quote from: Hoss on February 06, 2014, 08:46:23 AM
Almost the whole of one side of my family..yes.
Family is very important.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 06, 2014, 08:56:14 AM
Family is very important.
Not when they start talking like bat-smoot-crazy loonies.
Quote from: Hoss on February 06, 2014, 08:58:19 AM
Not when they start talking like bat-smoot-crazy loonies.
That's what your family tells me about you. :P As an aside, here is a way to get at those stories about illegals using our roads and killing our citizens.
http://splashurl.com/kmwudf8
Quote from: guido911 on February 14, 2014, 04:17:57 PM
That's what your family tells me about you. :P As an aside, here is a way to get at those stories about illegals using our roads and killing our citizens.
http://splashurl.com/kmwudf8
Noticed recently. Why hide everything behind a URL shortener?
EDIT - Especially one that has you wait 5 or so seconds and has you view an ad? Needing some extra cash?
Carl Seel is a member of the "black helicopter" squad.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/04/agenda_21_arizona_nutty_republicans_star_in_anti-agenda_21_hearing_the_highlight_reel.php (http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/04/agenda_21_arizona_nutty_republicans_star_in_anti-agenda_21_hearing_the_highlight_reel.php)
Here is the actual bill:
Quote
"Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:
Section 1. Title 13, chapter 37, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 13-3729, to read:
13-3729. Unlawful use of public resources; vehicle forfeiture; classification; definition
A. A person commits unlawful use of public resources if the person uses any public resource while present in this state in violation of any regulation, statute or court order or any other operation of law that has determined the person is not lawfully present in this state or that precludes the person from lawfully entering or remaining in this state, including an executive office for immigration review deportation order, a signed agreement to not return to the United States between the person and the United States Immigration and customs enforcement or an order by another state requiring the person to not leave that state while on bail or a similar court order.
B. Any record that relates to the immigration status or illegal presence of a person in this state is admissible in any court without further foundation or testimony from a custodian of records if the record is certified as authentic by the government agency that is responsible for maintaining the record.
C. Motor vehicles that are used in violation of this section are subject to seizure for forfeiture in the manner provided for in chapter 39 of this title.
D. A violation of this section is a class 1 misdemeanor. A second or subsequent violation of this section is a class 6 felony.
E. For the purposes of this section, "uses any public resource" includes driving on a public road or highway, accepting any public benefit, attending a public school or using the services of any public entity in this state.
http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/51leg/2r/bills/hb2192p.htm&Session_ID=112 (http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/51leg/2r/bills/hb2192p.htm&Session_ID=112)
Quote from: saintnicster on February 14, 2014, 04:41:21 PM
Noticed recently. Why hide everything behind a URL shortener?
EDIT - Especially one that has you wait 5 or so seconds and has you view an ad? Needing some extra cash?
Not on purpose. I do not know how this started happening. Love for it to stop.
I've been reading recently about how hard it is to move here, even from countries like the UK and France. Even for the educated. I just don't get that. I would think we should accept anyone as an immigrant that has a real college degree, especially advanced degrees. We need to steal all the intellectual talent we can from the rest of the world.
Quote from: swake on February 14, 2014, 08:39:52 PM
I've been reading recently about how hard it is to move here, even from countries like the UK and France. Even for the educated. I just don't get that. I would think we should accept anyone as an immigrant that has a real college degree, especially advanced degrees. We need to steal all the intellectual talent we can from the rest of the world.
Tukrjrbs
Quote from: swake on February 14, 2014, 08:39:52 PM
I've been reading recently about how hard it is to move here, even from countries like the UK and France. Even for the educated. I just don't get that. I would think we should accept anyone as an immigrant that has a real college degree, especially advanced degrees. We need to steal all the intellectual talent we can from the rest of the world.
That's the point of orderly immigration. When U.S. citizens aren't finding jobs with their fresh college degrees, there is no need to import intellectual talent.
Quote from: guido911 on February 14, 2014, 06:31:09 PM
Not on purpose. I do not know how this started happening. Love for it to stop.
My guess is that you've got a rogue extension or plugin on your web browser, some type of mini-malware.
Quote from: swake on February 14, 2014, 08:39:52 PM
I've been reading recently about how hard it is to move here, even from countries like the UK and France. Even for the educated. I just don't get that. I would think we should accept anyone as an immigrant that has a real college degree, especially advanced degrees. We need to steal all the intellectual talent we can from the rest of the world.
For individuals, yeah. For Corporations, easiest thing in the world to get an H1B work visa if you have "advertised" for employees and "can't find anyone qualified" to fill the job. This has been used extensively in engineering talent procurement. An ad is placed asking for an engineer with 20+ years of experience, minimum of Master's degree, able to use every engineering software tool every created from PCB design to CFD programs. And willing to work for $28,000 a year.
When they can't find that, (wink, wink, nod, nod....), apply for an H1B and instant immigrant event.