The president killed 14 innocent people on friday the 13th.
No one even asks about it at the White House Pressers, and it's back page stuff on CNN.
From a historical standpoint this is significant. The president of the United States is executing, in some cases, hundreds of people every month.
In many cases he doesn't even know who he is killing, but no one cares because as Jay Carney says, "The administration has repeatedly emphasized the extraordinary care that we take to make sure counterterrorism actions are in accordance with all applicable law." Nothing to see here.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/12/world/meast/yemen-u-s-drone-wedding/
(http://thewe.cc/thewe_/images_5/-----/illuminati-system/drone-strike-by-obama-children-killed.jpg)
When the worship of this president by the Democrats is over, only his actions will remain as legacy, and they will share in that.
Quote from: Gaspar on December 16, 2013, 09:06:00 AM
The president killed 14 innocent people on friday the 13th.
Well in the meantime, lets cash in!
/s
"My job as governor is to help aerospace and defense continue to thrive in Oklahoma," Gov. Mary Fallin said in a statement. "Unmanned Aerial Systems are a key component to future growth and job creation in these industries."
A bill that would prohibit putting weapons on drones and limit their use for surveillance on citizens without a warrant passed a House committee last year but was temporarily shelved at Fallin's request to protect the state's application to the Federal Aviation Administration to become a designated drone test site.http://www.tulsaworld.com/communities/stillwater/oklahoma-vies-to-be-drone-hub/article_53391936-c903-5e25-bb38-0d219adbaa07.html
Someone's going huntzinger.
Nixon burned babies with napalm, LBJ did too. Reagan killed our soldiers in Beirut after after his own generals warned that missile strikes would make for bloody reprisals and Bush murdered innocents with cruise missiles.
I thought only extremist hippy liberals from the last generation were guilty of what you just did. I expect better from posters around here.
Quote from: AquaMan on December 16, 2013, 12:24:43 PM
I thought only extremist hippy liberals from the last generation were guilty of what you just did. I expect better from posters around here.
Not any longer. The extremist hippy liberals are just fine with it now, because the hypocrite is always right.
Quote from: Gaspar on December 16, 2013, 01:22:59 PM
Not any longer. The extremist hippy liberals are just fine with it now, because the hypocrite is always right.
Where was your outrage when the other presidents were doing it?
Oh, wait...
Quote from: Hoss on December 16, 2013, 01:32:46 PM
Where was your outrage when the other presidents were doing it?
Oh, wait...
Is that the high road?. . . to say that President Obama is justified in killing innocent people because other presidents did?
He was elected to usher in a change. To re-establish this country as a defender of human rights. To abolish what were presented by the left as atrocities of war, clandestine interrogations, offshore imprisonment, and all of the other things democrats tried to bring down his predecessor for.
He was awarded the Noble Prize for peace on his words alone. Instead, he became the finger on the trigger. No longer was it even necessary to be a terrorist target, foreigners are now vaporized for weak ties and associations to terrorist groups, and collateral damage (innocent men women and children) are all but ignored by a complacent international media. Targets have become increasingly soft, and the decisions to kill crowds of people has become increasingly cavalier.
If George Bush killed 14 innocent men women and children in an executive branch (non military) operation carried out by the CIA two weeks before Christmas, rest assured, it would be front page material and you would hear calls for the president to be brought up on war crimes charges. Instead, president Obama wears his hypocrisy like a golf glove. . .easy to slide on and off whenever necessary. No one will question him and all of these children will be forgotten.
Next week the president will head for Hawaii for Christmas. I pray that God blesses him and his family. I also pray that God blesses the parents who will never hold these children again, because president Obama decided that their death was worth it because verification and validation was too difficult.
Noor Aziz | 8 | male
Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
Noor Syed | 8 | male
Wajid Noor | 9 | male
Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
Ayeesha | 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
Shoaib | 8 | male
Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male
Tariq Aziz | 16 | male
Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male
Maezol Khan | 8 | female
Nasir Khan | male
Naeem Khan | male
Naeemullah | male
Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male
Azizul Wahab | 15 | male
Fazal Wahab | 16 | male
Ziauddin | 16 | male
Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male
Fazal Hakim | 19 | male
Ilyas | 13 | male
Sohail | 7 | male
Asadullah | 9 | male
khalilullah | 9 | male
Noor Mohammad | 8 | male
Khalid | 12 | male
Saifullah | 9 | male
Mashooq Jan | 15 | male
Nawab | 17 | male
Sultanat Khan | 16 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male
Noor Mohammad | 15 | male
Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male
Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male
Abdullah | 18 | male
Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male
Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male
Shahbuddin | 15 | male
Yahya Khan | 16 |male
Rahatullah |17 | male
Mohammad Salim | 11 | male
Shahjehan | 15 | male
Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male
Bakht Muneer | 14 | male
Numair | 14 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Taseel Khan | 18 | male
Zaheeruddin | 16 | male
Qari Ishaq | 19 | male
Jamshed Khan | 14 | male
Alam Nabi | 11 | male
Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male
Rahmatullah | 14 | male
Abdus Samad | 17 | male
Siraj | 16 | male
Saeedullah | 17 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Salman | 12 | male
Fazal Wahab | 18 | male
Baacha Rahman | 13 | male
Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male
Iftikhar | 17 | male
Inayatullah | 15 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Adnan | 16 | male
Najibullah | 13 | male
Naeemullah | 17 | male
Hizbullah | 10 | male
Kitab Gul | 12 | male
Wilayat Khan | 11 | male
Zabihullah | 16 | male
Shehzad Gul | 11 | male
Shabir | 15 | male
Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male
Shafiullah | 16 | male
Nimatullah | 14 | male
Shakirullah | 16 | male
Talha | 8 | male
Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female
Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female
Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female
Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female
Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male
Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male
Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female
Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female
Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female
Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female
Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male
Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female
Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female
Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female
Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female
Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male
Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female
Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female
Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male
Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male
Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female
AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male
Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male
Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male
Nasser Salim | 19
Quote from: Gaspar on December 16, 2013, 03:01:27 PM
Is that the high road?. . . to say that President Obama is justified in killing innocent people because other presidents did?
He was elected to usher in a change. To re-establish this country as a defender of human rights. To abolish what were presented by the left as atrocities of war, clandestine interrogations, offshore imprisonment, and all of the other things democrats tried to bring down his predecessor for.
He was awarded the Noble Prize for peace on his words alone. Instead, he became the finger on the trigger. No longer was it even necessary to be a terrorist target, foreigners are now vaporized for weak ties and associations to terrorist groups, and collateral damage (innocent men women and children) are all but ignored by a complacent international media. Targets have become increasingly soft, and the decisions to kill crowds of people has become increasingly cavalier.
If George Bush killed 14 innocent men women and children in an executive branch (non military) operation carried out by the CIA two weeks before Christmas, rest assured, it would be front page material and you would hear calls for the president to be brought up on war crimes charges. Instead, president Obama wears his hypocrisy like a golf glove. . .easy to slide on and off whenever necessary. No one will question him and all of these children will be forgotten.
Next week the president will head for Hawaii for Christmas. I pray that God blesses him and his family. I also pray that God blesses the parents who will never hold these children again, because president Obama decided that their death was worth it because verification and validation was too difficult.
Noor Aziz | 8 | male
Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
Noor Syed | 8 | male
Wajid Noor | 9 | male
Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
Ayeesha | 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
Shoaib | 8 | male
Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male
Tariq Aziz | 16 | male
Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male
Maezol Khan | 8 | female
Nasir Khan | male
Naeem Khan | male
Naeemullah | male
Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male
Azizul Wahab | 15 | male
Fazal Wahab | 16 | male
Ziauddin | 16 | male
Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male
Fazal Hakim | 19 | male
Ilyas | 13 | male
Sohail | 7 | male
Asadullah | 9 | male
khalilullah | 9 | male
Noor Mohammad | 8 | male
Khalid | 12 | male
Saifullah | 9 | male
Mashooq Jan | 15 | male
Nawab | 17 | male
Sultanat Khan | 16 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male
Noor Mohammad | 15 | male
Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male
Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male
Abdullah | 18 | male
Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male
Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male
Shahbuddin | 15 | male
Yahya Khan | 16 |male
Rahatullah |17 | male
Mohammad Salim | 11 | male
Shahjehan | 15 | male
Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male
Bakht Muneer | 14 | male
Numair | 14 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Taseel Khan | 18 | male
Zaheeruddin | 16 | male
Qari Ishaq | 19 | male
Jamshed Khan | 14 | male
Alam Nabi | 11 | male
Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male
Rahmatullah | 14 | male
Abdus Samad | 17 | male
Siraj | 16 | male
Saeedullah | 17 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Salman | 12 | male
Fazal Wahab | 18 | male
Baacha Rahman | 13 | male
Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male
Iftikhar | 17 | male
Inayatullah | 15 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Adnan | 16 | male
Najibullah | 13 | male
Naeemullah | 17 | male
Hizbullah | 10 | male
Kitab Gul | 12 | male
Wilayat Khan | 11 | male
Zabihullah | 16 | male
Shehzad Gul | 11 | male
Shabir | 15 | male
Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male
Shafiullah | 16 | male
Nimatullah | 14 | male
Shakirullah | 16 | male
Talha | 8 | male
Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female
Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female
Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female
Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female
Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male
Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male
Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female
Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female
Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female
Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female
Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male
Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female
Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female
Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female
Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female
Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male
Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female
Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female
Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male
Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male
Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female
AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male
Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male
Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male
Nasser Salim | 19
Clairvoyant much? Where did you extrude I was OK with it? I'm not.
I'm simply asking why the outrage when it's this President yet not a peep when from his predecessors?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-125820/US-bomb-kills-30-Afghan-wedding.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-125820/US-bomb-kills-30-Afghan-wedding.html)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/1507895/Pakistan-fury-as-CIA-airstrike-on-village-kills-18.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/1507895/Pakistan-fury-as-CIA-airstrike-on-village-kills-18.html)
http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20080711-0458-afghanistan.html (http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20080711-0458-afghanistan.html)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/11/05/us-afghan-violence-idUSTRE4A44EW20081105 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/11/05/us-afghan-violence-idUSTRE4A44EW20081105)
The oh great and powerful double standard Gaspar. Cries about a double standard and has a double standard. Hilarious.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on December 16, 2013, 03:40:51 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-125820/US-bomb-kills-30-Afghan-wedding.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-125820/US-bomb-kills-30-Afghan-wedding.html)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/1507895/Pakistan-fury-as-CIA-airstrike-on-village-kills-18.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/1507895/Pakistan-fury-as-CIA-airstrike-on-village-kills-18.html)
http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20080711-0458-afghanistan.html (http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20080711-0458-afghanistan.html)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/11/05/us-afghan-violence-idUSTRE4A44EW20081105 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/11/05/us-afghan-violence-idUSTRE4A44EW20081105)
The oh great and powerful double standard Gaspar. Cries about a double standard and has a double standard. Hilarious.
Why is any of this hilarious?
You didn't vote for change. Hardly anyone in Oklahoma did. Every effort at change has been opposed so vociferously that family and friends are torn apart across the country. Yet, like the true hypocrite you are, its all his fault. How dare he repeat the same decisions other presidents have found they also had to swallow hard and suffer over. And the fact that most of us realize, that Presidents are at the mercy of whatever Congress, Judicial and established bureaucracy is prevailing at the time of their tour of duty, totally evades you.
To make it worse, and I didn't think you could, you accuse Democrats and anyone who still supports (worships?) him as sharing blame for all the tragedy in the world.
Do you even believe we are in a war against terrorism? Do you get so enraged when these cretins blow up their own children to prove their commitment? Or do you identify with that level of commitment?
"No one even asks about it at the White House Pressers, and it's back page stuff on CNN."
Hmm but breaking news every 30 sec. on FOX, and the only topic on talk radio.
Quote from: Gaspar on December 16, 2013, 03:56:37 PM
Why is any of this hilarious?
You are because your beliefs change whenever there is a different political party in power. What else will you selectively decide to care about next? You also forgot the all caps on the headline. You just bolded it.
Quote from: Gaspar on December 16, 2013, 03:01:27 PM
Is that the high road?. . . to say that President Obama is justified in killing innocent people because other presidents did?
He was elected to usher in a change. To re-establish this country as a defender of human rights. To abolish what were presented by the left as atrocities of war, clandestine interrogations, offshore imprisonment, and all of the other things democrats tried to bring down his predecessor for.
He was awarded the Noble Prize for peace on his words alone. Instead, he became the finger on the trigger. No longer was it even necessary to be a terrorist target, foreigners are now vaporized for weak ties and associations to terrorist groups, and collateral damage (innocent men women and children) are all but ignored by a complacent international media. Targets have become increasingly soft, and the decisions to kill crowds of people has become increasingly cavalier.
If George Bush killed 14 innocent men women and children in an executive branch (non military) operation carried out by the CIA two weeks before Christmas, rest assured, it would be front page material and you would hear calls for the president to be brought up on war crimes charges. Instead, president Obama wears his hypocrisy like a golf glove. . .easy to slide on and off whenever necessary. No one will question him and all of these children will be forgotten.
You make it too easy...maybe if you watched something other than Fox and were aware of the wider world around you...
Another "perspective" moment. No one is advocating Obama killing anyone - never have. But if you are gonna spend a "hundred" words disparaging this number, what amount of talk do you suppose the death of 900,000 civilians would be worth? The head count for Baby Bush and his lies, misrepresentations, distortions, etc., as justification for the Iraq war. You wear the most bizarre set of bifocals in the history of the world.... Foxfocals!!
And where was your wringing of hands and disparagement over that??
And Fox regularly foams at the mouth over some little triviality they spew should be an impeachable offense for Obama. If there were any proportion at all, not only would the murder of those 900,000 be an impeachable offense, I suspect - given the history of our (the US) accusations against others in the world for much smaller atrocities, like Sadam Hussein killing a couple hundred thousand - war crimes trials would definitely be in order.
Or should that be a pass??
Wow, pile on the poster for identifying that random casualties of war continue under the administration which was hustled in partly because people were afraid McCain would be an extension, if not an expansion of Bush's war-time policies and more collateral damage.
During the Bush Admin, I specifically recall a daily body count of U.S. service men and women in the Tulsa World as well as larger national publications. There were protesters hanging a banner on the Peoria bridge over the BA expressway at rush hour with the updated body count.
Aqua, you, amongst others made it sound as if Bush recklessly jumped into killing Middle Easterners with no reservation back in the dy. Now, suddenly, he deliberated long and hard about it, just like Obama?
Gaspar is hardly being a hypocrite. I don't recall him defending the collateral victims in the Middle East from 2001 through 2008. The real hypocrites are those who spoke out against the very same actions for eight years previous but haven't issued so much as a mouse's fart in protest now that their guy has been in office for five years.
The current administration making mistakes with dire consequences is not justifiable by the incompetence of previous administrations. That is not the platform this president ran on. He ran on "change" and ending acts of war that could involve innocent civilians. "Change" was nothing but a platitude. Some of you just don't want to admit you got chumped by this clown.
BS.
There hasn't been enough piling on. Gas's post wasn't even worthy of responding to. It took a while before I would dignify it. If this is the crap that you feel comfortable defending and swerving around to do so, then good luck to you both. I see some very anti-patriotic vitriol spewing forth, masquerading behind Palin style speech writing and nothing, nothing, will justify it.
Quote from: AquaMan on December 16, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
BS.
There hasn't been enough piling on. Gas's post wasn't even worthy of responding to. It took a while before I would dignify it. If this is the crap that you feel comfortable defending and swerving around to do so, then good luck to you both. I see some very anti-patriotic vitriol spewing forth, masquerading behind Palin style speech writing and nothing, nothing, will justify it.
Yeah, okay Aqua, whatever makes you sleep well at night.
Quote from: Conan71 on December 16, 2013, 08:56:09 PM
Wow, pile on the poster for identifying that random casualties of war continue under the administration which was hustled in partly because people were afraid McCain would be an extension, if not an expansion of Bush's war-time policies and more collateral damage.
During the Bush Admin, I specifically recall a daily body count of U.S. service men and women in the Tulsa World as well as larger national publications. There were protesters hanging a banner on the Peoria bridge over the BA expressway at rush hour with the updated body count.
Aqua, you, amongst others made it sound as if Bush recklessly jumped into killing Middle Easterners with no reservation back in the dy. Now, suddenly, he deliberated long and hard about it, just like Obama?
Gaspar is hardly being a hypocrite. I don't recall him defending the collateral victims in the Middle East from 2001 through 2008. The real hypocrites are those who spoke out against the very same actions for eight years previous but haven't issued so much as a mouse's fart in protest now that their guy has been in office for five years.
The current administration making mistakes with dire consequences is not justifiable by the incompetence of previous administrations. That is not the platform this president ran on. He ran on "change" and ending acts of war that could involve innocent civilians. "Change" was nothing but a platitude. Some of you just don't want to admit you got chumped by this clown.
Body count publicity peaked in Viet Nam. Our casualty lists were in the Tulsa World daily. Enemy kills - 100's a day - were also noted....
As for the current admin - well, it is the same kind of warmongering, Imperialistic voyeurism that we had during Bush. Bush. Reagan. Nixon. Johnson. But hey...Clint Eastwood got a good little movie out of one of Reagan's voyeuristic journeys!
We need a good blues interlude right about now.... Son House oughta do it... Good Sh$t, Maynard....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0bv_PTazDc
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on December 16, 2013, 10:36:36 PM
We need a good blues interlude right about now.... Son House oughta do it... Good Sh$t, Maynard....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0bv_PTazDc
T-H-A-N-K-S S-O M-U-C-H for posting the link to this gem that I haven't heard since I don't know when!!
Quote from: Rookie Okie on December 16, 2013, 10:50:19 PM
T-H-A-N-K-S S-O M-U-C-H for posting the link to this gem that I haven't heard since I don't know when!!
Just been chillin' to Blind Willie Johnson, Son House, REAL early Bob Dylan (North Country Blues at the Newport Folk festival), and a dash of Woodie Guthrie tonight. Relaxing.
People used to use the power of music to protest atrocity, but I suppose it also works as a distraction. :-)
Want to be "patriotic" Aqua? Support our president in just military action for the purpose of protecting our freedom, and condemn our president when he circumvents congress to wage secret wars and kill indiscriminately. Who the president is and the letter after his name should not matter.
Sacrificing yourself, your morals, and core philosophies daily to suffer the arrows of President Obama's failures is not patriotic. In all fairness, I don't believe President Obama sits in the "Tuesday Terror Meeting" each week and says "yes let's kill these people." Like everything else he seems to do, I think he is most likely absent, and only reads the PDFs later backstage at one of his speaking engagements. Devoid of leadership the CIA is left to their own devices, and unbound by consequence or the conscience of the nation.
I would be shocked if he actually applied himself in this manner.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/03/obama-drones-double-down_n_4208815.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/signature-strikes-and-the_b_3575351.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/13/1262435/-U-S-Drone-Strike-Kills-14-in-Wedding-Party-in-Yemen
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/10/22/human-rights-groups-say-drone-strikes-violate-laws-war/
"Before any strike is taken, there must be near-certainty that no civilians will be killed or injured -- the highest standard we can set." - President Obama November 26, 2013
"Gaspar is hardly being a hypocrite. I don't recall him defending the collateral victims in the Middle East from 2001 through 2008. The real hypocrites are those who spoke out against the very same actions for eight years previous but haven't issued so much as a mouse's fart in protest now that their guy has been in office for five years."
So if somebody spoke out against something from 2001-2008 and don't say anything now they are a hypocrite. But if you said nothing from 2001-2008 and say something now that isn't the same thing? No action - action vs action - no action is the same level of change in investment. Really what really through it over the top was the giant bold headlines. If this was posted seriously we would be having a conversation on drone strikes and everybody would be consistent in their stance. This is a "oh boy a drone killed some kids in another country now I have something to post on Tulsa Now bashing the President" thread.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on December 17, 2013, 07:52:56 AM
"Gaspar is hardly being a hypocrite. I don't recall him defending the collateral victims in the Middle East from 2001 through 2008. The real hypocrites are those who spoke out against the very same actions for eight years previous but haven't issued so much as a mouse's fart in protest now that their guy has been in office for five years."
So if somebody spoke out against something from 2001-2008 and don't say anything now they are a hypocrite. But if you said nothing from 2001-2008 and say something now that isn't the same thing? No action - action vs action - no action is the same level of change in investment. Really what really through it over the top was the giant bold headlines. If this was posted seriously we would be having a conversation on drone strikes and everybody would be consistent in their stance. This is a "oh boy a drone killed some kids in another country now I have something to post on Tulsa Now bashing the President" thread.
So, choose to have a conversation. Sorry that you and Hoss take offense to typography.
Quote from: AquaMan on December 16, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
BS.
There hasn't been enough piling on. Gas's post wasn't even worthy of responding to. It took a while before I would dignify it. If this is the crap that you feel comfortable defending and swerving around to do so, then good luck to you both. I see some very anti-patriotic vitriol spewing forth, masquerading behind Palin style speech writing and nothing, nothing, will justify it.
The 'ol "you're either with us, or with the enemy" fallacy?
Quote from: CharlieSheen on December 17, 2013, 07:52:56 AM
So if somebody spoke out against something from 2001-2008 and don't say anything now they are a hypocrite. But if you said nothing from 2001-2008 and say something now that isn't the same thing? No action - action vs action - no action is the same level of change in investment. Really what really through it over the top was the giant bold headlines. If this was posted seriously we would be having a conversation on drone strikes and everybody would be consistent in their stance. This is a "oh boy a drone killed some kids in another country now I have something to post on Tulsa Now bashing the President" thread.
What kind of frontier gibberish is this? ;D
The simple point is this: The Cindy Sheehans of the world are being curiously silent while the same destructive policies of the previous administration are still going on. It now would appear their outrage during the Bush years wasn't against indiscriminate killing but rather still being pissed off that Bush won the 2000 election because when Obama does the exact same thing, you hear no protest.
There are severe breaches of the Constitution going on under this administration vis-a-vis the IRS scandals, NSA spying scandals, and drone strikes on civilians and yet no one is being held accountable under this administration. These are things that are far bigger than Libby/Plame that Democrats on The Hill could care less about. It's constant obfuscation, circle the wagons, and blame the previous president.
Those who remain silent are simply hypocrites, but those who rally to provide justification are the threat. They are the dangerous ones because they worship the cult of personality. The man at the alter, that is always where evil dwells.
Germany had a very popular leader once and he built that popularity through the loyalty of those willing to justify his actions and deny every wrongdoing.
The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force. – Adolf Hitler
You two keep burping up the left over pizza. Your credibility is in free fall. Typography indeed.
Isn't there a phrase we use when all else fails and the poster starts relating his opponent's views to Hitler and Nazism?
CharlieSheen, that was a good analysis.
Quote from: AquaMan on December 17, 2013, 10:27:31 AM
You two keep burping up the left over pizza. Your credibility is in free fall.
Isn't there a phrase we use when all else fails and the poster starts relating his opponent's views to Hitler and Nazism?
CharlieSheen, that was a good analysis.
It's called 'Godwining'...formally known as 'Godwin's Law'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Given the ever expanding and already vast divide in America, it is difficult to fathom the U.S. as capable of having a popular leader in the foreseeable future. Whomever is at the helm will be sugar to one half, and $hit to the other unlike Nazi Germany. Like them or not, no U.S. leader past or present should ever be compared to or referenced in the context of Hitler.
More importantly, Tulsa is not gaining anything from the drain of energy and brainpower of some good minds being focused against each other. What can be solved or made better through this? Can everyone just agree to disagree and continue to uplift Tulsa?
Quote from: Rookie Okie on December 17, 2013, 10:51:04 AM
Given the ever expanding and already vast divide in America, it is difficult to fathom the U.S. as capable of having a popular leader in the foreseeable future. Whomever is at the helm will be sugar to one half, and $hit to the other unlike Nazi Germany. Like them or not, no U.S. leader past or present should ever be compared to or referenced in the context of Hitler.
More importantly, Tulsa is not gaining anything from the drain of energy and brainpower of some good minds being focused against each other. What can be solved or made better through this? Can everyone just agree to disagree and continue to uplift Tulsa?
I was aware that my comment would qualify for Godwin status, but I wasn't making a comparison on policy, only on similarly in support.
President Obama has relied on rhetoric alone to gather his masses. He brought nothing to the table except words. Now that that his popularity has begun to dwindle with the thinking, those that remain represent the cult of Obama. With little or no resulting achievements and in many cases unforeseen or opposite results as those presented and hammered through never a never ending campaign of rhetoric, the loyalists still exist, willing to blame anyone and everyone but their deity.
President Obama's approval ratings are now lower than Bush's, and of course that too is Bush's fault.
http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-approval-rating-polls-nixon-2013-12
Blah, blah, blah.....Not a leader...blah, blah, blah,....rhetoric...nothing but words...blah, blah....unpopular...cultish followers...blah, blah....
Do you know how crazy you're starting to sound? Like you are the ultimate decisionmaker on these characteristics?
We've been Godwinned. You said what you said and if you didn't mean for it to sound like what it did, then don't say it.
Quote from: Rookie Okie on December 17, 2013, 10:51:04 AM
Given the ever expanding and already vast divide in America, it is difficult to fathom the U.S. as capable of having a popular leader in the foreseeable future. Whomever is at the helm will be sugar to one half, and $hit to the other unlike Nazi Germany. Like them or not, no U.S. leader past or present should ever be compared to or referenced in the context of Hitler.
More importantly, Tulsa is not gaining anything from the drain of energy and brainpower of some good minds being focused against each other. What can be solved or made better through this? Can everyone just agree to disagree and continue to uplift Tulsa?
I agree. I bow out from this slug fest of useless ranting.
Bye
By the stats on the first page....It looks like Obama is trying to "Nip it in the bud" for lack of a better term....For that I say, good work....!!!!!
Quote from: AquaMan on December 16, 2013, 05:59:46 PM
You didn't vote for change. Hardly anyone in Oklahoma did. Every effort at change has been opposed so vociferously that family and friends are torn apart across the country.
Translation: Shut up Gaspar about Obama killing kids. You didn't vote for him.
Quote from: AquaMan on December 17, 2013, 11:51:54 AM
Blah, blah, blah.....Not a leader...blah, blah, blah,....rhetoric...nothing but words...blah, blah....unpopular...cultish followers...blah, blah....
Do you know how crazy you're starting to sound? Like you are the ultimate decisionmaker on these characteristics?
We've been Godwinned. You said what you said and if you didn't mean for it to sound like what it did, then don't say it.
You cannot escape the fact that during the Bush administration, every damned bit of negative news about the war efforts were turned into an attack. Abu Ghraib, rendition, Gitmo, military tribunals, and so on. Obama has co-opted many of these "horrible" practices which he campaigned against, and some of the deaths in the fog of war John Kerry once characterized as our soldiers terrorizing women and children are now occurring on Obama's watch. Where are the loudmouth lefties in this forum now? Freakin crickets.
Quote from: guido911 on December 17, 2013, 02:07:15 PM
...every damned bit of negative news about the war efforts were turned into an attack.
Please read what you wrote.
Negative news happens. It turns into an attack quite naturally by the other side. Always.
Thank you for sharing your grasp of the obvious. Where would we be without you?
Quote from: RecycleMichael on December 17, 2013, 02:13:28 PM
Thank you for sharing your grasp of the obvious. Where would we be without you?
Working at the M.E.T. or living my life by dreaming of compost... :-*
And thanks for agreeing with me that it is obvious that the left only cares about the negative war news when there is a republican commander-in-chief. Best if you read what I wrote.
You sure do make assumptions about what other people think.
You are special that way.
So now that the garden gnomes have finished their personal attacks and name-calling, I would be interested to know what the intelligent lefties like RM have to say on the subject?
I'm pretty sure RM thinks we shouldn't blow innocent people up.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on December 17, 2013, 03:14:15 PM
I'm pretty sure RM thinks we shouldn't blow innocent people up.
Well I would hope so, but I don't want to speak for him. RM was never a big Obama supporter until he took the nomination from Hillary. Had RM's candidate become president, we would likely be in another Clinton economic boom and have a very different foreign policy. The Clintons are very hands-on (no pun) leaders.
Quote from: Gaspar on December 17, 2013, 03:26:16 PM
Well I would hope so, but I don't want to speak for him. RM was never a big Obama supporter until he took the nomination from Hillary. Had RM's candidate become president, we would likely be in another Clinton economic boom and have a very different foreign policy. The Clintons are very hands-on (no pun) leaders.
I don't think the military is targeting innocent people on purpose. So they obviously can't tell the difference between innocents and hostiles enough of the time that drones should be used. Basically a large meeting or a group of cars = terrorists from a satellite. Just think if it wasn't for all that blind rage for Hillary from the right Hillary would have won.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on December 17, 2013, 03:31:07 PM
I don't think the military is targeting innocent people on purpose. So they obviously can't tell the difference between innocents and hostiles enough of the time that drones should be used. Basically a large meeting or a group of cars = terrorists from a satellite. Just think if it wasn't for all that blind rage for Hillary from the right Hillary would have won.
The military is not involved. The program is executive branch and CIA.
Hillary's failure to gain the nomination had nothing to do with any other party but her own. Big labor liked Obama, and the Clinton's previous support for the Iraq war delivered the more liberal Democrats to Obama. Couple that with race, youth, and a silver tongue and you get what we got.
Hillary is cunning, but cunning was not enough. Unfortunately for the United States we ended up with an academic who really didn't like to touch anything himself. But oh could he sing.
Quote from: Gaspar on December 17, 2013, 03:45:39 PM
The military is not involved. The program is executive branch and CIA.
So we should consider it confirmed, the military is not involved.
Just so everyone is clear, the military is not involved.
Quote from: Gaspar on December 17, 2013, 03:45:39 PM
The military is not involved. The program is executive branch and CIA.
Hillary's failure to gain the nomination had nothing to do with any other party but her own. Big labor liked Obama, and the Clinton's previous support for the Iraq war delivered the more liberal Democrats to Obama. Couple that with race, youth, and a silver tongue and you get what we got.
Hillary is cunning, but cunning was not enough. Unfortunately for the United States we ended up with an academic who really didn't like to touch anything himself. But oh could he sing.
Good point on the CIA thing. Yeah obviously they need better risk assessment people. I wouldn't be surprised if the Army people did a better job than the CIA.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on December 17, 2013, 03:57:37 PM
Good point on the CIA thing. Yeah obviously they need better risk assessment people. I wouldn't be surprised if the Army people did a better job than the CIA.
The Army would have to answer to congress as well as the president. Risk assessment is always better when there is the threat of accountability.
Of course the president could hold his CIA director accountable LOL!!! Just kidding, that'll never happen! :D
Quote from: Gaspar on December 17, 2013, 11:24:19 AM
I was aware that my comment would qualify for Godwin status, but I wasn't making a comparison on policy, only on similarly in support.
President Obama has relied on rhetoric alone to gather his masses. He brought nothing to the table except words. Now that that his popularity has begun to dwindle with the thinking, those that remain represent the cult of Obama. With little or no resulting achievements and in many cases unforeseen or opposite results as those presented and hammered through never a never ending campaign of rhetoric, the loyalists still exist, willing to blame anyone and everyone but their deity.
President Obama's approval ratings are now lower than Bush's, and of course that too is Bush's fault.
http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-approval-rating-polls-nixon-2013-12
No other leader going forward will be able to accomplish any more than what you see today. No matter what ANY person from ANY party sets out to do in America going forward, it will be difficult to accomplish because in your face hell-bent opposition will be as sure as death and taxes. Understand this, whatever ideas you or any candidate that you support stand for, there will be someone just as vehemently opposed to those same ideas, and ready to do whatever it takes to stamp them out. So a lot of what you hear out of any politician's mouth will probably become rhetoric given the fact that it isn't likely to come to fruition in America where politicians act worse than children and have personal agendas at the expense of the people that they were elected to serve.
Quote from: Rookie Okie on December 17, 2013, 04:06:34 PM
No other leader going forward will be able to accomplish any more than what you see today. No matter what ANY person from ANY party sets out to do in America going forward, it will be difficult to accomplish because in your face hell-bent opposition will be as sure as death and taxes. Understand this, whatever ideas you or any candidate that you support stand for, there will be someone just as vehemently opposed to those same ideas, and ready to do whatever it takes to stamp them out. So a lot of what you hear out of any politician's mouth will probably become rhetoric given the fact that it isn't likely to come to fruition in America where politicians act worse than children and have personal agendas at the expense of the people that they were elected to serve.
That is a rather negative outlook, and I reject it. We have had both polarizing leaders and unifiers. Most of us have the same goals, it's just the path that differs. When people see results, they tend to rely less on politics.
Intensions are not results - Milton Friedman
Quote from: Gaspar on December 17, 2013, 04:16:48 PM
That is a rather negative outlook, and I reject it. We have had both polarizing leaders and unifiers. Most of us have the same goals, it's just the path that differs. When people see results, they tend to rely less on politics.
Intensions are not results - Milton Friedman
If it is a negative outlook, then it is very well informed by today's realities. I agree with your assertion about "seeing results." But the point I'm trying to make is that it will be difficult to "see results" going forward because of the vitriolic politics in today's America. What you are doing here, you should expect to see others do the same if and when someone champions or betters represents your ideals. How will you expect anyone to support and respect you tomorrow when they remember your attacks of toady? Turnabout is fair play.
Quote from: Gaspar on December 17, 2013, 03:09:13 PM
...I would be interested to know what the intelligent lefties like RM have to say on the subject?
War bad.
Killing innocent victims very bad.
I don't think I have changed my anti-war attitudes based on who was in the White House.
I am not a fan of this President much these days. He promised to shut down Gitmo and didn't. He disappointed me too many times and he seems to be apologizing too much for too many things. I believe that healthcare insurance is broke and I am glad he is trying to fix it, but having such a bad website is inexcusable. I thought he was going to make a major jobs program to build a new rail network for America and instead just gave billions to pave over the same highways.
I do prefer his administration to the previous one. At least he hasn't lied about the main reason we went to a major war. He didn't just lie about how tax cuts for the wealthiest would help the poor. At least he doesn't have an evil vice-president.
I am hoping the next President does what he promises. I know, I am a dreamer.
Dreamers are the most beautiful people.
Quote from: Conan71 on December 17, 2013, 09:44:17 AM
What kind of frontier gibberish is this? ;D
Genuine frontier gibberish, of course.
Quote from: Gaspar on December 17, 2013, 11:24:19 AM
President Obama's approval ratings are now lower than Bush's, and of course that too is Bush's fault.
Of course it's Bush's fault. If Bush had gotten his approval rating even lower, Bush wouldn't have put Obama in this predicament.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on December 17, 2013, 05:57:01 PM
War bad.
Killing innocent victims very bad.
I don't think I have changed my anti-war attitudes based on who was in the White House.
I am not a fan of this President much these days. He promised to shut down Gitmo and didn't. He disappointed me too many times and he seems to be apologizing too much for too many things. I believe that healthcare insurance is broke and I am glad he is trying to fix it, but having such a bad website is inexcusable. I thought he was going to make a major jobs program to build a new rail network for America and instead just gave billions to pave over the same highways.
I do prefer his administration to the previous one. At least he hasn't lied about the main reason we went to a major war. He didn't just lie about how tax cuts for the wealthiest would help the poor. At least he doesn't have an evil vice-president.
I am hoping the next President does what he promises. I know, I am a dreamer.
I'd further qualify the last statement about the next President and promises. What if the next President promises something that you do not or cannot support, would you want him/ her to keep that promise or would you want it broken somehow? There are a lot of lu-lu's out here with presidential delusions and aspirations, many of whose promises I would not want to see kept.....But thank goodness for dreamers
Quote from: Gaspar on December 17, 2013, 04:01:00 PM
The Army would have to answer to congress as well as the president. Risk assessment is always better when there is the threat of accountability.
Of course the president could hold his CIA director accountable LOL!!! Just kidding, that'll never happen! :D
Well....except for that NSA part of the military that doesn't have to answer to anyone....