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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: Weatherdemon on August 28, 2013, 12:59:28 PM

Title: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Weatherdemon on August 28, 2013, 12:59:28 PM
I think this was an old water tower site but I'm not 100% sure.
Anyway, it appears there is something going on up there as I see a backhoe, bulldozer, and water truck up there and most of the vegetation has been removed.

What did I miss that is going up there?
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Townsend on August 28, 2013, 01:01:16 PM
They removed the headstones but they left the bodies.

(http://content6.flixster.com/question/68/46/34/6846344_std.jpg)
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Hoss on August 28, 2013, 01:05:17 PM
Quote from: Weatherdemon on August 28, 2013, 12:59:28 PM
I think this was an old water tower site but I'm not 100% sure.
Anyway, it appears there is something going on up there as I see a backhoe, bulldozer, and water truck up there and most of the vegetation has been removed.

What did I miss that is going up there?

Isn't that Standpipe Hill?
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Townsend on August 28, 2013, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: Hoss on August 28, 2013, 01:05:17 PM
Isn't that Standpipe Hill?

Yes.  A "last stand" during the riots.  If I remember right, the militia fired cannon on it.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Weatherdemon on August 28, 2013, 01:07:11 PM
Quote from: Hoss on August 28, 2013, 01:05:17 PM
Isn't that Standpipe Hill?

Nice!
http://www.tulsagal.net/2010/03/standpipe-hill.html
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Noodlez on August 28, 2013, 01:08:24 PM
New sign for OSU
http://www.newson6.com/story/23242704/osu-tulsa-takes-steps-to-make-brand-more-visible
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Weatherdemon on August 28, 2013, 01:10:44 PM
Quote from: Noodlez on August 28, 2013, 01:08:24 PM
New sign for OSU
http://www.newson6.com/story/23242704/osu-tulsa-takes-steps-to-make-brand-more-visible

Oh. Seriously?
That was the best that anyone could come up with for that?

Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: DTowner on August 28, 2013, 01:11:32 PM
That's a high value use of this prime spot!   :'(

Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Townsend on August 28, 2013, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: Townsend on August 28, 2013, 01:07:08 PM
Yes.  A "last stand" during the riots.  If I remember right, the militia fired cannon on it.

Nope, I was way off...apparently that might've been one of the machine gun placements.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 28, 2013, 07:59:40 PM
Quote from: Weatherdemon on August 28, 2013, 01:07:11 PM
Nice!
http://www.tulsagal.net/2010/03/standpipe-hill.html

Great shots of Tulsa....love it!

Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: takemebacktotulsa on August 29, 2013, 09:34:01 AM
Quote from: Weatherdemon on August 28, 2013, 01:10:44 PM
Oh. Seriously?
That was the best that anyone could come up with for that?

Thanks for the info.

OSU tulsa controls all that vacant land up there.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on August 29, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
That is a great vantage point for pictures of downtown.  Hopefully they also make access up there easier.

I still wish OSU would make the decision to locate all of its current and future research facilities at the Greenwood campus.  I realize some of the facilities are in Stillwater for a reason but most should be in Tulsa, as well as more undergraduate and especially graduate programs.  Have the entire western part of the campus around the existing ATRC be developed into research buildings spilling over into the northern end of the Brady District.  Then the classroom/academic buildings clustered around the existing buildings along Greenwood Ave. at the eastern part of the campus.  Then the areas west of the hill can be for future student housing, north of I-244 and south of John Hope Franklin between Cincinnati Martin Luther King Jr. and Boulder.  Fairview could be turned into a pedestrian pathway from the housing across the hill into the campus.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: patric on August 29, 2013, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: Weatherdemon on August 28, 2013, 01:10:44 PM

That was the best that anyone could come up with for that?


"OSU-Tulsa plans to level the top of (Standpipe) hill and create terraces down the side to control erosion.
They've cut down trees, but will plant more, and at the top they'll place a large, lighted "O," easily visible from the highway and the Brady District."



So is the "O" for "Obscene" ?
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: TurismoDreamin on September 02, 2013, 04:46:59 PM
OSU once had big plans for all that land they sit on.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img20/7006/knkz.jpg)
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on September 02, 2013, 10:38:14 PM
Turismo, do you have that master plan in jpg or pdf form?  That must have been when OSU proposed the Vision 20/20 plan: 20,000 students in Tulsa by 2020.  I would be interested in knowing if this plan is still valid or has been updated.

Anyone familiar with OSU know why they they didn't follow through with this plan?  Was it purely lack of funding? 
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: TurismoDreamin on September 03, 2013, 09:00:07 PM
Quote from: SXSW on September 02, 2013, 10:38:14 PM
Turismo, do you have that master plan in jpg or pdf form?  That must have been when OSU proposed the Vision 20/20 plan: 20,000 students in Tulsa by 2020.  I would be interested in knowing if this plan is still valid or has been updated.

Anyone familiar with OSU know why they they didn't follow through with this plan?  Was it purely lack of funding? 
I don't have this in a better format. I just so happen to be at OSU-Tulsa the other day and came across this while I was there. It's surrounded by windows and no matter what angle I took that picture, I couldn't get rid of the glare. If you're interested, this picture is on the second floor of the Main Hall next to some sofas, tables, and chairs as well as a stairwell near a computer lab.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: AquaMan on September 04, 2013, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: patric on August 29, 2013, 09:16:38 PM
"OSU-Tulsa plans to level the top of (Standpipe) hill and create terraces down the side to control erosion.
They've cut down trees, but will plant more, and at the top they'll place a large, lighted "O," easily visible from the highway and the Brady District."



So is the "O" for "Obscene" ?

They may regret that. The big "O" in Tulsa. Right.

Anyone know about the physical gesture students make with their hands at Oregon University that represents the "O"? Unfortunately it also is sign language for female genitalia.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: custosnox on September 05, 2013, 12:12:51 AM
Quote from: AquaMan on September 04, 2013, 01:09:06 PM

Anyone know about the physical gesture students make with their hands at Oregon University that represents the "O"? Unfortunately it also is sign language for female genitalia.
Not quiet. Close, but not exactly.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: AquaMan on September 05, 2013, 01:43:32 PM
Quote from: custosnox on September 05, 2013, 12:12:51 AM
Not quiet. Close, but not exactly.

I saw a pic on Yahoo, youtube or somewhere showing the odd looks on some ASL students' faces when watching fans flashing the sign. The text was my source.  Index finger tips together and thumbs together with a resulting ace of spades appearance. How close is it?
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: sgrizzle on September 05, 2013, 08:19:27 PM
The laws prohibiting them from competing with TCC are a big hinderance for OSU expansion. That and founding issues. Tulsa is the red headed stepchild of Stillwater.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on September 05, 2013, 10:19:52 PM
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 05, 2013, 08:19:27 PM
The laws prohibiting them from competing with TCC are a big hinderance for OSU expansion. That and founding issues. Tulsa is the red headed stepchild of Stillwater.

I wasn't aware of specific laws which prohibit them from competing with TCC other than the self-serving rules of the board of regents which tend to protect the mother ships in Stillwater and Norman.  If I'm wrong on the notion there aren't other laws, that simply adds heaps ludicrous to piles of ridiculous.

Tulsa got hosed on a great opportunity back in the mid '80's with UCAT.  Considering Tulsa is probably the largest metro in the United States without a true four year public university, we could have easily merged the upper class mission of UCAT with the associate's nature of TJC and better met the needs of our community in one convenient place rather than the sprawl we have now.  What we've ended up with has managed to serve construction contractors and provide more job opportunities for higher ed administrators and instructors quite well while providing a convoluted trail to a degree for students.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 05, 2013, 11:18:37 PM
Quote from: AquaMan on September 04, 2013, 01:09:06 PM
They may regret that. The big "O" in Tulsa. Right.

Anyone know about the physical gesture students make with their hands at Oregon University that represents the "O"? Unfortunately it also is sign language for female genitalia.

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/oregoncheerleaderos_zpsd9d4649c.jpg)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/sports/ncaafootball/american-sign-language-program-attracts-oregon-football-players.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/sports/ncaafootball/american-sign-language-program-attracts-oregon-football-players.html?_r=0)

Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: AquaMan on September 06, 2013, 01:41:19 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on September 05, 2013, 10:19:52 PM
I wasn't aware of specific laws which prohibit them from competing with TCC other than the self-serving rules of the board of regents which tend to protect the mother ships in Stillwater and Norman.  If I'm wrong on the notion there aren't other laws, that simply adds heaps ludicrous to piles of ridiculous.

Tulsa got hosed on a great opportunity back in the mid '80's with UCAT.  Considering Tulsa is probably the largest metro in the United States without a true four year public university, we could have easily merged the upper class mission of UCAT with the associate's nature of TJC and better met the needs of our community in one convenient place rather than the sprawl we have now.  What we've ended up with has managed to serve construction contractors and provide more job opportunities for higher ed administrators and instructors quite well while providing a convoluted trail to a degree for students.

Well described. Its lunacy but profitable lunacy.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: AquaMan on September 06, 2013, 01:49:56 PM
I see what you mean Custo. The form of a spade is more the sign than an O. Still, I am angry at OSU for defiling that area and will find any reason to needle them (has nothing to do with my being an OU alum, nothing..really). Its not like we needed another huge lighted sign in the area. A large OSU sign is just east of it anyway and the channel 6 sign is visible miles away from 75.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: sgrizzle on September 06, 2013, 04:28:10 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on September 05, 2013, 10:19:52 PM
I wasn't aware of specific laws which prohibit them from competing with TCC other than the self-serving rules of the board of regents which tend to protect the mother ships in Stillwater and Norman.  If I'm wrong on the notion there aren't other laws, that simply adds heaps ludicrous to piles of ridiculous.


Can't find the reference but state universities are not allowed to offer freshman/sophomore courses in areas serviced by a public community college.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: carltonplace on September 06, 2013, 06:15:46 PM
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 06, 2013, 04:28:10 PM
Can't find the reference but state universities are not allowed to offer freshman/sophomore courses in areas serviced by a public community college.

seems silly
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Oil Capital on September 07, 2013, 11:14:09 AM
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 06, 2013, 04:28:10 PM
Can't find the reference but state universities are not allowed to offer freshman/sophomore courses in areas serviced by a public community college.

I think you are overstating it.  I presume this is the law to which you are referring:

ยง70-4665.  Nonduplication of courses.
Courses offered at the undergraduate level through Oklahoma State University/Tulsa shall not duplicate those offered by Tulsa Community College.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Ibanez on September 07, 2013, 02:35:06 PM
Hopefully this doesn't cause OU Tulsa to respond in kind with a big lighted logo at 41st & Yale
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: sgrizzle on September 08, 2013, 09:19:49 AM
Quote from: Ibanez on September 07, 2013, 02:35:06 PM
Hopefully this doesn't cause OU Tulsa to respond in kind with a big lighted logo at 41st & Yale

They don't have to put up a better sign. Their fans will claim their sign is better, larger and more successful regardless of fact.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: sgrizzle on September 08, 2013, 09:22:14 AM
Quote from: Oil Capital on September 07, 2013, 11:14:09 AM
I think you are overstating it.  I presume this is the law to which you are referring:

§70-4665.  Nonduplication of courses.
Courses offered at the undergraduate level through Oklahoma State University/Tulsa shall not duplicate those offered by Tulsa Community College.

Since TCC offers virtually every freshman/sophomore course OSU does, it seems to be accurate to what I said.

People won't enroll at OSU and live on campus if half their classes have to be taken elsewhere.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Hoss on September 08, 2013, 10:54:07 AM
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 08, 2013, 09:22:14 AM
Since TCC offers virtually every freshman/sophomore course OSU does, it seems to be accurate to what I said.

People won't enroll at OSU and live on campus if half their classes have to be taken elsewhere.

You better cite your source, Scott.   :o
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: TulsaRufnex on September 08, 2013, 11:04:04 AM
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 08, 2013, 09:19:49 AM
They don't have to put up a better sign. Their fans will claim their sign is better, larger and more successful regardless of fact.

+1
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Oil Capital on September 08, 2013, 11:53:11 AM
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 08, 2013, 09:22:14 AM
Since TCC offers virtually every freshman/sophomore course OSU does, it seems to be accurate to what I said.


LOL   Like I said, you overstated it. . .  in two ways:  (1)  There is no flat ban on OSU offering lower level courses at OSU-Tulsa.  They are only prohibited from duplicating courses offered by TCC.  Even if, as you claim, virtually every freshman/sophomore course offered by OSU is also offered by TCC, that acknowledges that the duplication is not total.  (2) The law has no effect on any other university in the state of Oklahoma.

The law indeed probably has the effect on OSU that you claim and probably roughly the same effect on OSU as if the law were written as you claimed.   Just trying to keep things fact-based and avoid the perpetuation of falsehoods.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: TulsaRufnex on September 08, 2013, 02:21:25 PM
^^Splitting hairs.^^
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on September 08, 2013, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 06, 2013, 04:28:10 PM
Can't find the reference but state universities are not allowed to offer freshman/sophomore courses in areas serviced by a public community college.

In that case it would make more sense to have OSU and TCC co-located at the Boston campus for undergraduate classes, and then focus the Greenwood campus as more for graduate and doctoral level classes and especially research activities for the entire OSU system.  That would benefit both institutions.

For example, you are a business major enrolled at OSU.  You take a couple OSU business courses but most are 1000-level TCC courses, and all are at 9th & Boston (which would have to grow).  As you get further into your degree more of your courses would be OSU and not TCC, or you could just get your associates degree.  If you finish your 4 year business degree then you would have the option of continuing grad studies at the Greenwood campus.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on September 08, 2013, 06:10:56 PM
Quote from: SXSW on September 08, 2013, 04:19:13 PM
In that case it would make more sense to have OSU and TCC co-located at the Boston campus for undergraduate classes, and then focus the Greenwood campus as more for graduate and doctoral level classes and especially research activities for the entire OSU system.  That would benefit both institutions.

For example, you are a business major enrolled at OSU.  You take a couple OSU business courses but most are 1000-level TCC courses, and all are at 9th & Boston (which would have to grow).  As you get further into your degree more of your courses would be OSU and not TCC, or you could just get your associates degree.  If you finish your 4 year business degree then you would have the option of continuing grad studies at the Greenwood campus.

Funny, I wrote a very detailed paper on this in 1986 when I was a student at TCC and OSU Tulsa was UCAT.  Obviously, it never made it up the chain to anyone at the board of regents.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Weatherdemon on September 09, 2013, 08:08:37 AM
Quote from: Conan71 on September 08, 2013, 06:10:56 PM
Funny, I wrote a very detailed paper on this in 1986 when I was a student at TCC and OSU Tulsa was UCAT.  Obviously, it never made it up the chain to anyone at the board of regents.

The state board regents have also stopped allowing TCC grads in an OSU transfer program from having that put on their degree. They may not even be able to call it that any more.
It was a nice program. You choose it at TCC, OSU has already provided the classes they require for transfer to their program, and it's all done in one shot with no questions or multiple calls/visits to OSU.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on September 09, 2013, 10:39:25 PM
Growing the two state universities and working with the local state legislators to remove any stupid barriers should be higher on the priority list for our mayor and council.  In fact it should be the top priority.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: godboko71 on September 24, 2013, 06:37:43 PM
Considering they are so close together and you can be concurrently enrolled why would we want OSU Tulsa to offer duplicate courses?

The real issue for OSU Tulsa is well OSU, they don't want to expand their offerings in Tulsa because it would erode stillwater enrollment.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on September 24, 2013, 10:15:42 PM
Quote from: godboko71 on September 24, 2013, 06:37:43 PM
Considering they are so close together and you can be concurrently enrolled why would we want OSU Tulsa to offer duplicate courses?

The real issue for OSU Tulsa is well OSU, they don't want to expand their offerings in Tulsa because it would erode stillwater enrollment.

Which is ridiculous.  Many other states have successful flagship universities as well as independent, counterpart urban universities.  All of the surrounding states do.  I see OU growing its midtown campus and wish they were downtown, since OSU has been a major disappointment.  Not to mention their lack of support for the OSU Med Center which has been on the verge of bankruptcy.  Meanwhile OU Med Center in OKC is a major economic engine and growing fast.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: godboko71 on September 24, 2013, 10:31:56 PM
OU Med has the added benefit of federal money for the veterans hospital/research facility and state money. Not that OSU could not work out better partnerships with other local hospitals & colleges to offer a more robust and potentially profitable enterprise.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: carltonplace on September 25, 2013, 09:33:31 AM
At some point in the future we will wish that the OSU Tulsa campus was more dense and less suburban-in-urbia feeling.

Do they own all of the empty space around them or just have "dibs" on it?
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: rdj on September 25, 2013, 09:57:10 AM
It is held in trust for University Center at Tulsa aka UCAT.

Has anyone seen renderings of the modifications they are making to the hill?
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Jeff P on September 25, 2013, 11:23:05 AM
Quote from: SXSW on September 24, 2013, 10:15:42 PM
Which is ridiculous.  Many other states have successful flagship universities as well as independent, counterpart urban universities.  All of the surrounding states do.  I see OU growing its midtown campus and wish they were downtown, since OSU has been a major disappointment.  Not to mention their lack of support for the OSU Med Center which has been on the verge of bankruptcy.  Meanwhile OU Med Center in OKC is a major economic engine and growing fast.

Maybe I'm not understanding the complaint here, but this seems like a bit of an apples/oranges comparison.

The OU midtown campus is pretty narrowly focused on public health. It offers 7 undergraduate degrees, 14 graduate degrees and 7 doctoral degrees on site. And again, they are pretty narrowly focused on public health-related degrees.

The OSU-Tulsa campus offers 23 bachelor's degrees, 22 graduate degrees and 9 doctoral degrees.  And the choices are pretty broad, from management to engineering to communication to environmental sciences.

OU doesn't offer anything like that in OKC or Tulsa.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on September 25, 2013, 11:29:34 PM
I don't care if it's OU or OSU, and I support OSU since they are already downtown.  I just frustrates me to see OSU move so slowly with growing the Tulsa campus, and still require students go to Stillwater to complete most programs.  OSU should build up Tulsa as not only an urban campus but a center for research and health sciences (OSU Med Center).  OU should do the same at 41st & Yale.  Tulsa needs these public universities to grow and thrive.

Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Jeff P on September 26, 2013, 09:01:34 AM
Quote from: SXSW on September 25, 2013, 11:29:34 PM
I don't care if it's OU or OSU, and I support OSU since they are already downtown.  I just frustrates me to see OSU move so slowly with growing the Tulsa campus, and still require students go to Stillwater to complete most programs.  OSU should build up Tulsa as not only an urban campus but a center for research and health sciences (OSU Med Center).  OU should do the same at 41st & Yale.  Tulsa needs these public universities to grow and thrive.

You keep say they are "growing slowly" but do you have any figures that show that?  Like number of students when they took over vs. now? Number of degree programs offered then vs. now?

I'm not saying I do or that you're wrong... I'm just curious what their actual rate of growth is.

As for your "wish list" about making OSU-Tulsa a center for research and/or making it a large urban campus like some other large universities have, well, I'm afraid it's more than likely a money issue. 

OSU and OU are moderate-sized state universities.  They both have fewer than 30,000 undergraduates on their main campus and have roughly the same financial resources.  Neither are anywhere near the size nor have the resources of, say, the Texas or Texas A&M systems that have large urban campuses around Texas.

Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Cats Cats Cats on September 26, 2013, 09:23:20 AM
I heard that traditional enrollment isn't growing and that online classes are where the growth is at now. This is from somebody who talked to somebody high up at OSU.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: rdj on September 26, 2013, 09:36:22 AM
Quote from: SXSW on September 25, 2013, 11:29:34 PM
I don't care if it's OU or OSU, and I support OSU since they are already downtown.  I just frustrates me to see OSU move so slowly with growing the Tulsa campus, and still require students go to Stillwater to complete most programs.  OSU should build up Tulsa as not only an urban campus but a center for research and health sciences (OSU Med Center).  OU should do the same at 41st & Yale.  Tulsa needs these public universities to grow and thrive.



Agreements with Langston keep OSU from offering more degree options.  Agreements with TCC keep them from offering freshman/sophomore level classes.

I would love to see a joint student/faculty housing project with TCC/OSU on the land west of the OSU campus and the sea of parking south of TCC-Metro.

The area around TCC could primarily be the student housing because freshman/sophomore level students are more likely to want to live "on campus" while the area near OSU could primarily be faculty/researcher/graduate student housing.  The area near TCC I envision being multi-family buildings with most units being studios.  The Blue Dome is growing south and if the East End is ever developed they could tie in nicely.  I envision a row house style development on the land west of OSU.  A few multi-family buildings but primarily units attractive to families.  With the proximity to the Brady & Greenwood Districts and an elementary school (which would need work to attract the families) the area west of OSU could be a great place for the non-undergrad student that is involved with OSU/TCC.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on September 26, 2013, 09:43:24 AM
Quote from: rdj on September 26, 2013, 09:36:22 AM
Agreements with Langston keep OSU from offering more degree options.  Agreements with TCC keep them from offering freshman/sophomore level classes.

I would love to see a joint student/faculty housing project with TCC/OSU on the land west of the OSU campus and the sea of parking south of TCC-Metro.

The area around TCC could primarily be the student housing because freshman/sophomore level students are more likely to want to live "on campus" while the area near OSU could primarily be faculty/researcher/graduate student housing.  The area near TCC I envision being multi-family buildings with most units being studios.  The Blue Dome is growing south and if the East End is ever developed they could tie in nicely.  I envision a row house style development on the land west of OSU.  A few multi-family buildings but primarily units attractive to families.  With the proximity to the Brady & Greenwood Districts and an elementary school (which would need work to attract the families) the area west of OSU could be a great place for the non-undergrad student that is involved with OSU/TCC.

I like your proposal as a great use of land.  The only issue is, people generally don't move to other cities or move out of the family home to attend "community" colleges.  They are virtually 100% attended by local residents either right out of high school trying to save money on undergrad hours or adults already in the work force who are doing continuing ed.  If only the various powers-that-be would see the benefit in a four year public university and act on it...but that won't happen because no one likes to give up their little fiefdom for the benefit of the greater good in a community.

Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: rdj on September 26, 2013, 09:52:56 AM
I propose the units near TCC & OSU be privately owned and operated.  TCC leases the land to the owner.  The units wouldn't be reserved only for TCC students.  Rather essentially workforce housing, that would be affordable for the community college student.  Give them a reason to move into downtown and immersed in urban living.  Rather than say staying with mom & dad in BA and driving into downtown everyday. 

The same could be true for the OSU land.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on April 13, 2014, 11:46:43 PM
I found this PDF newsletter from 2001 that shows the master plan which was part of OSU's "20,000 students by 2020" vision at the time.  This ties into the rendering that is still on their website showing a pond with development on the hill.  Obviously there have been some changes i.e. the Helmerich ATRC isn't there or even shown.  Interesting that everything is lined up on an axis with the existing buildings and mostly on top of the hill. 

http://bradyheights.org/newsletters/BHJune01.pdf (http://bradyheights.org/newsletters/BHJune01.pdf)
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: sgrizzle on April 14, 2014, 09:12:07 AM
Quote from: SXSW on April 13, 2014, 11:46:43 PM
I found this PDF newsletter from 2001 that shows the master plan which was part of OSU's "20,000 students by 2020" vision at the time.  This ties into the rendering that is still on their website showing a pond with development on the hill.  Obviously there have been some changes i.e. the Helmerich ATRC isn't there or even shown.  Interesting that everything is lined up on an axis with the existing buildings and mostly on top of the hill. 

http://bradyheights.org/newsletters/BHJune01.pdf (http://bradyheights.org/newsletters/BHJune01.pdf)

That plan also means Boston and Detroit exist ONLY south of the IDL, with all Detroit traffic being forced onto the I-244 access road.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on April 14, 2014, 09:59:47 AM
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 14, 2014, 09:12:07 AM
That plan also means Boston and Detroit exist ONLY south of the IDL, with all Detroit traffic being forced onto the I-244 access road.

It is definitely a flawed plan, especially with the ending of through streets and the area in between Boulder and Cincinnati is a mess.  But interesting that at one time OSU was really ambitious, and why aren't they now.  Leadership changes?  This would've been not long after OSU took over the UCAT property when OU decided to move to 41st & Yale and NSU to BA. 

It would be good to see an updated plan with the ATRC.  IMO they should infill the parking lots in between North Hall and the ATRC first and then expand up the hill.  If they can tear down the apartments to the north even better, those are a crime-ridden nuisance.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: sgrizzle on April 14, 2014, 10:42:18 AM
Quote from: SXSW on April 14, 2014, 09:59:47 AM
It is definitely a flawed plan, especially with the ending of through streets and the area in between Boulder and Cincinnati is a mess.  But interesting that at one time OSU was really ambitious, and why aren't they now.  Leadership changes?  This would've been not long after OSU took over the UCAT property when OU decided to move to 41st & Yale and NSU to BA. 

It would be good to see an updated plan with the ATRC.  IMO they should infill the parking lots in between North Hall and the ATRC first and then expand up the hill.  If they can tear down the apartments to the north even better, those are a crime-ridden nuisance.

Tulsa isn't the most popular campus for OSU, hard to get money to spend here.

Also, I think the community college rules still really hinder OSU and OU
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on April 14, 2014, 12:37:44 PM
I've said it before, but to me getting the laws changed so that OSU and OU can grow without inhibitions should be the highest priority for Tulsa's leadership. 

Here is an article from 2010. The goal then was 4,000 students by 2015, a far cry from the 20,000 by 2020.  I wonder where they're at with that goal? 
http://www.osu-tulsa.okstate.edu/news/email/2010/journalrecord-2010-07-15.html?utm_source=current&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=july152010 (http://www.osu-tulsa.okstate.edu/news/email/2010/journalrecord-2010-07-15.html?utm_source=current&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=july152010)

If they could offer more complete degree options without having to go to TCC or Stillwater, expand their Tulsa-based research center and construct a few more buildings to develop more of a cohesive campus then that would be a major improvement. 
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: rdj on April 15, 2014, 08:30:27 AM
Was told last week they are spending $3MM on their new guard tower.  All in the name of visibility.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on April 15, 2014, 09:09:43 AM
Quote from: rdj on April 15, 2014, 08:30:27 AM
Was told last week they are spending $3MM on their new guard tower.  All in the name of visibility.

::)

Let's see how many scholarships could be awarded to those living in lower income neighborhoods near there with $3mm?
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: carltonplace on April 15, 2014, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Conan71 on April 15, 2014, 09:09:43 AM
::)

Let's see how many scholarships could be awarded to those living in lower income neighborhoods near there with $3mm?

exactly, or even how many student housing units in all of that empty space they own.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: AquaMan on April 15, 2014, 10:15:10 AM
I'm still angry at them for demolishing the oldest firestation in the city that once housed horse drawn firewagons so they could have yet another vacant lot to mow. It would have been a great building to re-hab and add character to the campus. But no, we need to build giant useless signs to validate our existence. At least some brick masons and architects got something out of it.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: sgrizzle on April 15, 2014, 10:53:55 AM
Quote from: rdj on April 15, 2014, 08:30:27 AM
Was told last week they are spending $3MM on their new guard tower.  All in the name of visibility.

Quote
The work on the hill, combined with new sidewalks and lighting, will cost at least $1 million.

"This will create a very walkable way into the Brady District and hopefully that will help people see we are part of downtown, this is downtown as well," Barnett said.

Betting the tower was closer to $300k, the rest spent on shoring up the hill, sidewalks, lighting, etc.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on April 15, 2014, 04:17:27 PM
IIRC the UCAT Trust owns all of the land not OSU.  OSU is just the main tenant.  If I were Mayor I would propose selling off the UCAT land around the campus.  OSU would keep everything from MLK east to the tracks, and north of the IDL to John Hope Franklin, with Langston in their own area on Greenwood.  Everything else would be sold to a master developer similar to what Denver did with the old Stapleton airport.  Develop design guidelines and build it out as a mix of residential and open spaces:
- High Density Residential between Boulder and MLK north of the IDL to John Hope Franklin (these could be urban apartments targeting downtown workers and OSU students)
- Medium Density Residential east of MLK on the hilltop (these could be town homes that include a mix of market rate and affordable housing next to the THA office and Sunrise Terrace public housing)
- Low Density Residential between Boulder and MLK north of John Hope Franklin to Jasper (mostly houses similar to the character of the adjacent Brady Heights neighborhood with front porches, alley garages, etc)
- Parks and Open Space on the hill north of OSU includes tearing down the public housing at MLK & Independence and having a playground/sports field space, and walking trails though the forested part to the east
- Improved Connections to Brady, Downtown and OSU with new sidewalks, street lighting and trees planted along each street and better lighting and public art at each IDL underpass on Boulder, Main, Boston, MLK, Detroit, Elgin and Greenwood
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: sgrizzle on April 15, 2014, 04:54:17 PM
Quote from: SXSW on April 15, 2014, 04:17:27 PM
IIRC the UCAT Trust owns all of the land not OSU.  OSU is just the main tenant.  If I were Mayor I would propose selling off the UCAT land around the campus.  OSU would keep everything from MLK east to the tracks, and north of the IDL to John Hope Franklin, with Langston in their own area on Greenwood.  Everything else would be sold to a master developer similar to what Denver did with the old Stapleton airport.  Develop design guidelines and build it out as a mix of residential and open spaces:
- High Density Residential between Boulder and MLK north of the IDL to John Hope Franklin (these could be urban apartments targeting downtown workers and OSU students)
- Medium Density Residential east of MLK on the hilltop (these could be town homes that include a mix of market rate and affordable housing next to the THA office and Sunrise Terrace public housing)
- Low Density Residential between Boulder and MLK north of John Hope Franklin to Jasper (mostly houses similar to the character of the adjacent Brady Heights neighborhood with front porches, alley garages, etc)
- Parks and Open Space on the hill north of OSU includes tearing down the public housing at MLK & Independence and having a playground/sports field space, and walking trails though the forested part to the east
- Improved Connections to Brady, Downtown and OSU with new sidewalks, street lighting and trees planted along each street and better lighting and public art at each IDL underpass on Boulder, Main, Boston, MLK, Detroit, Elgin and Greenwood

Here is the complete list of funded developers who have expressed a serious interest in doing a large scale development in partnership with the City of Tulsa:














   



Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: SXSW on April 15, 2014, 05:27:58 PM
There's a first for everything.   ;D

I do think as Brady continues to develop and grow more popular that the land north of there will become increasingly valuable.  OSU would still have about 40 acres left to expand the footprint, and another 10 if they wanted Evans-Fintube.  They would then have to build more of a cohesive and dense campus.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: rdj on April 16, 2014, 09:41:12 AM
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 15, 2014, 10:53:55 AM
Betting the tower was closer to $300k, the rest spent on shoring up the hill, sidewalks, lighting, etc.

And, now they are out in the community asking local foundations to give more than in the past to support scholarships.  A lot of people I talk to are now happy with OSU Tulsa over their handling of this and the handling of the Helmerich Research Center.  Which the ARC has no research going on inside of it.  I'm sure Mr. Helmrich would roll in his grave if he knew.  BUT, higher ed in Oklahoma is a near immovable force.
Title: Re: Hill Across from OSU Tulsa
Post by: Markk on April 17, 2014, 04:26:48 PM
Quote from: SXSW on April 15, 2014, 04:17:27 PM
IIRC the UCAT Trust owns all of the land not OSU.  OSU is just the main tenant.  If I were Mayor I would propose selling off the UCAT land around the campus.  OSU would keep everything from MLK east to the tracks, and north of the IDL to John Hope Franklin, with Langston in their own area on Greenwood.  Everything else would be sold to a master developer similar to what Denver did with the old Stapleton airport.  Develop design guidelines and build it out as a mix of residential and open spaces:
- High Density Residential between Boulder and MLK north of the IDL to John Hope Franklin (these could be urban apartments targeting downtown workers and OSU students)
- Medium Density Residential east of MLK on the hilltop (these could be town homes that include a mix of market rate and affordable housing next to the THA office and Sunrise Terrace public housing)
- Low Density Residential between Boulder and MLK north of John Hope Franklin to Jasper (mostly houses similar to the character of the adjacent Brady Heights neighborhood with front porches, alley garages, etc)
- Parks and Open Space on the hill north of OSU includes tearing down the public housing at MLK & Independence and having a playground/sports field space, and walking trails though the forested part to the east
- Improved Connections to Brady, Downtown and OSU with new sidewalks, street lighting and trees planted along each street and better lighting and public art at each IDL underpass on Boulder, Main, Boston, MLK, Detroit, Elgin and Greenwood

By "improved connections" I assume you also mean driveable surface streets.  Detroit and MLK, Jr. Blvd. are in horrible shape.  I thought I read somewhere that there were going to also be improvements at the I-244 on and off ramps into downtown to make them more attractive, rather than the sea of cement that downtown visitors are currently treated to.