I had lunch at Laffa today with one of the original stakeholders in the Brady District. During lunch he mentioned where Davenport Street once was laid out in Tulsa. It had never dawned on me prior to today that there's a missing street in the alphabet north of the tracks. It skips from Cameron to Easton. If you drive north on Cheyenne, Boulder, or Main from Cameron to Easton, mid block turn and look either direction and you will notice roughly a 50 foot alleyway in between buildings. The street was taken over by a rail spur at one point for all the industry in the district. The spur was later removed. Was anyone else aware of this before?
He also mentioned that the Brady District and the CBD, in his opinion, is about 1500 to 2000 residential units shy of a "critical mass". I'd be looking for quite a few more announcements on residential property within the IDL in the next 2-3 years.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 02, 2013, 03:53:46 PM
I had lunch at Laffa today with one of the original stakeholders in the Brady District. During lunch he mentioned where Davenport Street once was laid out in Tulsa. It had never dawned on me prior to today that there's a missing street in the alphabet north of the tracks. It skips from Cameron to Easton. If you drive north on Cheyenne, Boulder, or Main from Cameron to Easton, mid block turn and look either direction and you will notice roughly a 50 foot alleyway in between buildings. The street was taken over by a rail spur at one point for all the industry in the district. The spur was later removed. Was anyone else aware of this before?
He also mentioned that the Brady District and the CBD, in his opinion, is about 1500 to 2000 residential units shy of a "critical mass". I'd be looking for quite a few more announcements on residential property within the IDL in the next 2-3 years.
Apparently there was something recent that popped up related to who owned the land, and that summery has some of the history
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ok-court-of-civil-appeals/1611785.html
Quote from: saintnicster on August 05, 2013, 08:53:16 AM
Apparently there was something recent that popped up related to who owned the land, and that summery has some of the history
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ok-court-of-civil-appeals/1611785.html
The land in this lawsuit is where Griffin Media Center is now located.
It actually wouldn't be a bad idea to reopen "Davenport" as a pedestrian only street from Boulder to Cheyenne. During the Center of the Universe Festival it would have been great. It would also connect the buildings in the NW portion of Brady back to the district better.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 02, 2013, 03:53:46 PM
I had lunch at Laffa today with one of the original stakeholders in the Brady District. During lunch he mentioned where Davenport Street once was laid out in Tulsa. It had never dawned on me prior to today that there's a missing street in the alphabet north of the tracks. It skips from Cameron to Easton. If you drive north on Cheyenne, Boulder, or Main from Cameron to Easton, mid block turn and look either direction and you will notice roughly a 50 foot alleyway in between buildings. The street was taken over by a rail spur at one point for all the industry in the district. The spur was later removed. Was anyone else aware of this before?
He also mentioned that the Brady District and the CBD, in his opinion, is about 1500 to 2000 residential units shy of a "critical mass". I'd be looking for quite a few more announcements on residential property within the IDL in the next 2-3 years.
I remember the rail spur, the bridge across Denver is still there. (according to Google Earth) IIRC, that spur was still in use in the early 80's and maybe into the late 80's. I did not know it was a street at one time. Wasn't there also a spur that ran down Archer at one time that started around Guthrie and Archer? There is a gap between the buildings that are between Guthrie and Lawton, and the building on the SE corner of Guthrie and Archer has an odd angle to it that I think was because of the curve in the line to turn and go east on Archer.
I have an older Atlas of Tulsa copy that would detail exactly where this was up until October of 1962. I can take a few pictures when I get home tonight if anyone would be interested.
Quote from: zenmechanic on August 09, 2013, 10:16:15 AM
I have an older Atlas of Tulsa copy that would detail exactly where this was up until October of 1962. I can take a few pictures when I get home tonight if anyone would be interested.
Well...hell yes we want to see any pictures. We love old Tulsa pictures.
You are new to the forum. As chair of the welcoming committee, let me officially say we like you already.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on August 09, 2013, 12:01:34 PM
Well...hell yes we want to see any pictures. We love old Tulsa pictures.
You are new to the forum. As chair of the welcoming committee, let me officially say we like you already.
This ugly woman is right. We do enjoy old Tulsa pics.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on August 09, 2013, 12:01:34 PM
Well...hell yes we want to see any pictures. We love old Tulsa pictures.
You are new to the forum. As chair of the welcoming committee, let me officially say we like you already.
I've lurked on this board a long long time, just never thought to make an account until today.
Here's a sample shot of what is in my copy of the Atlas of Tulsa. I'll upload a few more on davenport street tonight.
(http://i.imgur.com/jSoKbfF.jpg)
Quote from: zenmechanic on August 09, 2013, 01:28:10 PM
I've lurked on this board a long long time, just never thought to make an account until today.
Here's a sample shot of what is in my copy of the Atlas of Tulsa. I'll upload a few more on davenport street tonight.
(http://i.imgur.com/jSoKbfF.jpg)
that is awesome. Love maps. Love to see pre-interstate maps of Tulsa. I'm especially curious to know how the Admiral corridor from Sheridan to Mingo looked before 244 was built.
Quote from: Hoss on August 09, 2013, 01:29:51 PM
that is awesome. Love maps. Love to see pre-interstate maps of Tulsa. I'm especially curious to know how the Admiral corridor from Sheridan to Mingo looked before 244 was built.
I'll snap a few pictures of that as well.
Hello all. I'm new to this forum also. I ( also dad, mom , brother and sisters) formerly lived in this very area until about 1966. Spent all my elementary school years here until mom got transfered with her job and all moved to Bartlesville. My memories seem to be very selective now but somehow can remember these times well. A '57 buick was the family car but was seldom used except to pick up mom at her office downtown in what was known as the NBT building at the time. I guess that left me and my siblings as "latch key" kids. We had to do a lot of walking. Even from a day care on north Denver about 3 blocks north of Edison where all the walking started in my early days. The walk to Osage Elementary located where the Tisdale expressway is now. Then from there to home on about the 200 block north Elwood. I think I was in the last 6th grade class they had when all the demo was going on in the area to make way for the IDL. School included.
We were a family of hikers. Exercise I guess. I remember a t least a couple of trips along that railroad going west almost to Sand Springs and walking back before the sun set on us. Somebody in our family had one of those pedometers that clicked every time you took a step. I can't remember those readings on it though. If you go east on the RR , there was a little bridge that went over Denver av. where a safeway grocery was located. Never seen a Davenport av though. AS far as we knew, the RR kept going east somewhere out of our range. The siblings and I used to sneak out of our yard and walked all over the area and played. Frisco av to our west had a bridge over said tracks. That was a fun alternative route to school complete with hobo sightings under the bridge. The Frisco bridge even had side walks.Thinking now it had staircase going below (easy access for the hobos? ) Mom would fix them a sandwich if they came a'knocking on the door ( I always thought they were some sort of RR workers as it looked like to me they dressed the part, cap and stripped overalls). Oh, and Owen Park... another story for another time, .
Oh yeah ,Archer did have a RR down the middle of it and those odd shaped buildings to the south of us had all kinds of railroad spurs all over the place. Elwood av went over the tracks south to where the white civic center is now located. Now remembering being somewhat disappointed when those tickets that were sitting on top of the T.V. for the longest time were for the Roy Clarke show instead of the Dave Clark Five like I always thought . Roy Clarke was very vesitile guitar player any way! Thought he was some sort of a guitar genious in those days after that. My first music concert.wow.
Anyone else live in that era-area, go to that school? Tiny grocer/ house right across the street ?
Now under the city jail. Did I see a Katy pedestrian trail somewhere on this sight? Anyone walk it?
Welcome.
Keep posting.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on August 09, 2013, 04:41:21 PM
Welcome.
Keep posting.
Indeed, and nice to have someone around from that era who remembers things lol. I usually get answers like "I think... well wait,,,, no, it was over there,.... hmmm actually, maybe it was there..... Hey Marge! Where was such and such!....... hmmm, you know I don't recall exactly.... What was it you wanted to know again?"
Yes Zen, I would like to see those maps also. Especially the areas just to the north and the area just to the west of the downtown grid pre-IDL. As a kid in the 60's, mom used to bring home those Tulsa maps that the bank put out in those days. I remember those dotted red lines on them that indicated where the new highways were gonna go. The latest one in those days showed a section of the BA express completed between 12th st and memorial on the east. BA was off the map too far to the east to be included. Wished now I could have saved them after being collected all those years.
Seems like I was trying to re-draw them onto brown paper grocery bags that I cut out the bottoms to make a flat square piece to draw upon. I think some of the drawings of the skyline made it to show-and-tell at school . I think there was a brief history of Tulsa going on in the 6 grade level. Even the parts about the riots, and something about a tree south of downtown.A map at school indicated the newly annexed areas that made the city look twice as large as beforehand.
I'm thinking now that Brady av continued west along side Archer one block south. Today there is a remnant of another school, ( I believed it was Irving) that looked sorta like Osage elementary did back in the day. We had to walk to church on Sundays also. Strange little hood over there that looks like a small town we walked though to Rosedale av near 1st st. Helped construct it for some odd reason. It was an Indian church, I guess they got members to help with construction. I remember cinder (?) concrete blocks were involved. Getting too far away from Davenport now but that same railway followed along but some how it was above that hood a few feet in elevation. Now curiuos about the map.
Wonder if TPS would have photos of their old schools?
Quote from: Hoss on August 09, 2013, 01:29:51 PM
that is awesome. Love maps. Love to see pre-interstate maps of Tulsa. I'm especially curious to know how the Admiral corridor from Sheridan to Mingo looked before 244 was built.
Oh man, that just reminded me of the Sanborn Fire Insurance maps (http://www.tulsalibrary.org:2048/login?url=http://sanborn.umi.com/cgi-bin/auth.cgi?command=Login&username=T44VER4HDK&password=WELCOME&JSEnabled=1). You can access them online if you have a City Library Card. Lots of neat shots of what the city looked like, up to around 1962.
Better late than never, right?
http://imgur.com/a/uRPiy (http://imgur.com/a/uRPiy)
That's a gallery of 4 pictures. The title page to the book, the grid of the city, the page listed for Davenport St, and a closeup of the street in question.
Any others?
Wow! Just wow. Thank you very much for those images from your photo site on Imgur. Especially #4, shows the old stomping grounds that I grew up in. Armed with expanded zoom controls and a fine toothed magnifying glass, one can see some of the board of education -Osage school lots at the top of the map ( the school property actually extended another half block north to Golden st. off map). Also nearby, where all those lines become very busy near Edison st.and Osage drive, are boundry lines indicating where the Osage, Creek, and Cherokee nations came together right there just one block south of the school.Present day southeast corner of Osage county.There might be a comemorative marker
in nearby Owen park of some sort. Never paid much attention to those type of things in those days.
To be continued..
http://imgur.com/a/uRPiy
Please excuse my ignorance on posting, as I'm still new at this, but I can learn as I go. Adding hyperlinks and photos will be my next thing to learn (right after punching the correct keys and spelling!). Why didn't they teach me this in that school?? :)
In referance to to the same map page in last post, you can also see block 6 that has the ongoing legal dispute refered to in an earlier post (at the far right side of the page). From what I gathered from that article, it was over a 20' wide strip of land along the north side of Davenport.
I formerly lived on block 33 (not cell block 33) :) at the very bottom of the map. It was all nice tree-lined, sidewalks to the west of Denver and nicely kept houses and yards with very few not so nice houses. To the east of Denver it was more industrial like and no trees as I recall. I'm just now remembering a walking field trip from the Osage school to the Brady theatre with a class long ago. Nothing in particular was showing there, just exploring the insides and such as I recall. Looking at the map now, everything was so rediculislly close to each other, short distances everywhere around there,even the get-away route out of town to grammas house was just a couple or 3 blocks southwest to the 11th street bridge across the river and past the refineries and suddenly out of the big city, amazing. Sometimes an alternate route down Riverside drive to where it ended around 56th south and zig-zaged our way out of town that way.
Distances shrink down to almost nothing I'm now thinking.
Now if I can humbly request some more pages out of the good book: page 42 and whatever the page that is south of there and page 20, if I'm reading the map correctly, refering to the little circled numbers on page 21 that is shown. I'm looking for that missing piece of the puzzle possibly linking Brady to a street named "heavy traffic Way" or similar.
I believe someone requested earlier on this post about a section of E Admiral PL east of Sheridan also. Thanks in advance.
http://imgur.com/a/1YqAr#0 (http://imgur.com/a/1YqAr#0)
Here's an album with pages 20, 40, and 296. Enjoy! ;D
These plat maps raises more questions from me which is moot anyway since all this is gone just like Davenport Av vanished beforehand decades before. Example :block 33 (at least) and other blocks in that immediate area show only 6 lots per block when I know there were more than 3 houses facing the street (on my side of the street,Elwood, had a 4plex apartments on each corner and 3 houses in between) and a rumored "witch shack'' in the alley. :o . Seems incredable now that they could fit that many houses on those small blocks.Those blocks were further subdivided into yet smaller lots than what is shown. (because those houses were already decades old when map was made if you know what I mean).
I guess my new hobby is to research this area (with the help from my new friends at this forum, Sanborn fire maps , Berle Ford collections,THS, Tulsa Library,etc, etc. Oh, by the way , does the Tulsa library issue cards to out-of- towners?
Sounds like a dicey thing to do on their part.
I'm getting these funny ideas about creating a 3D table-top model highlighting the Archer-Brady-Bluedome district Just like they did in the movie "Beelejuice". I wonder if that would fly. If only in my own private "museum of self indulgence" . :D
Quote from: ElwoodBen on August 11, 2013, 11:21:59 PM
These plat maps raises more questions from me which is moot anyway since all this is gone just like Davenport Av vanished beforehand decades before. Example :block 33 (at least) and other blocks in that immediate area show only 6 lots per block when I know there were more than 3 houses facing the street (on my side of the street,Elwood, had a 4plex apartments on each corner and 3 houses in between) and a rumored "witch shack'' in the alley. :o . Seems incredable now that they could fit that many houses on those small blocks.Those blocks were further subdivided into yet smaller lots than what is shown. (because those houses were already decades old when map was made if you know what I mean).
I guess my new hobby is to research this area (with the help from my new friends at this forum, Sanborn fire maps , Berle Ford collections,THS, Tulsa Library,etc, etc. Oh, by the way , does the Tulsa library issue cards to out-of- towners?
Sounds like a dicey thing to do on their part.
I'm getting these funny ideas about creating a 3D table-top model highlighting the Archer-Brady-Bluedome district Just like they did in the movie "Beelejuice". I wonder if that would fly. If only in my own private "museum of self indulgence" . :D
As long as Michael Keaton doesn't crash through your door and scream "Nice Fn model!". LOL.
Quote from: ElwoodBen on August 11, 2013, 11:21:59 PM
These plat maps raises more questions from me which is moot anyway since all this is gone just like Davenport Av vanished beforehand decades before. Example :block 33 (at least) and other blocks in that immediate area show only 6 lots per block when I know there were more than 3 houses facing the street (on my side of the street,Elwood, had a 4plex apartments on each corner and 3 houses in between) and a rumored "witch shack'' in the alley. :o .
Just FYI on this book: The book has pages up to October of 1962, but most pages are dated with random years. I've seen pages from 1937, 1954, and 1961. For example, pg 296 is copyrighted 1962.
I inherited this book from my grandfather who was in the real estate business and I've carried it around for the last 15 years or so. I've often debated on donating it to the Tulsa Historical Society, but every once in a while it comes in handy to look something up.
Lunch at The Tavern reminded me that there is this aerial map/drawing of Tulsa from 1918. Great to zoom in on and view all the details.
http://www.bigmapblog.com/2012/aero-view-of-tulsa-oklahoma-1918/
Quote from: saintnicster on August 13, 2013, 01:11:05 PM
Lunch at The Tavern reminded me that there is this aerial map/drawing of Tulsa from 1918. Great to zoom in on and view all the details.
http://www.bigmapblog.com/2012/aero-view-of-tulsa-oklahoma-1918/
This print hangs on the wall behind my desk. I've never seen the site you posted. Cool to zoom in on the map. I could read it better than looking really close to the big print I have!
Great find. I was up all night looking for something even remote to this. Not even a quarter way through the Ford collection yet .Discovered a bunch of other interesting things tho. It'l take months or years to try to find all the photos and articles that I hope to find. This digital version of someones drawing (Michealangelo?) will probably be the best depiction I will ever hope to find. The library site wouldn't let me see the Sanborn stuff without a card ($50) for us out town area users. I think I'm really hoping to find pics of the old Osage school as ultimate goal.
Zoom control capabilities is just great! Saw some things I completly forgot about. The school is on there! Didn't know this area was so old to exist into the 60's. In a way, this is way better than a photograph, no trees to block some views.
You will also notice other street name changes on there. Look for a ball field on there that is close to where present day field is! This is way better than a "wheres Waldo" game can ever be.
My little sis is gonna have a deja vu freak when I show her this.
Oh yeah, I did find some more missing puzzle pieces at Tulsatvmemories.com especially at group blogs 316 and 281 that discribes some of the shennaniniguns that was going on in those 60's days around there. Good stuff. Old blogs tho, wished I could have participated in those.
Quote from: zenmechanic on August 12, 2013, 09:30:10 AM
Just FYI on this book: The book has pages up to October of 1962, but most pages are dated with random years. I've seen pages from 1937, 1954, and 1961. For example, pg 296 is copyrighted 1962.
I inherited this book from my grandfather who was in the real estate business and I've carried it around for the last 15 years or so. I've often debated on donating it to the Tulsa Historical Society, but every once in a while it comes in handy to look something up.
Have you ever considered getting professional digital copies made of the pages? If you do that then those could be available for any research, and you and still donate the book.
Quote from: custosnox on August 13, 2013, 05:20:12 PM
Have you ever considered getting professional digital copies made of the pages? If you do that then those could be available for any research, and you and still donate the book.
I could do that, but the total page count in that book is 1,423. I could scan them in myself, but it would be one hell of a project.
Quote from: zenmechanic on August 13, 2013, 08:33:20 PM
I could do that, but the total page count in that book is 1,423. I could scan them in myself, but it would be one hell of a project.
Wow, that is one heck of a book. I would love to get ahold of that file if you ever scan it, or have it scanned.
Quote from: saintnicster on August 13, 2013, 01:11:05 PM
Lunch at The Tavern reminded me that there is this aerial map/drawing of Tulsa from 1918. Great to zoom in on and view all the details.
http://www.bigmapblog.com/2012/aero-view-of-tulsa-oklahoma-1918/
I love that print. Especially when you zoom in and realize its a drawing and not a pic. A couple of errors I noticed right off. The railroad is pictured as east of Cincinnati at 18th to 21st, when in fact it is west. And of course, no trees on Berryhill and Lookout mtn. Counldn't find Lee school which was built in 1918 or my house nearby which was built around that time.
I forgot about Google earth's walk-around feature. One can walk all over the place excecpt most alley ways. You can turn and look down them tho. These are high quality pics from a year ago this month. The googlemobil picked a be-utiful day to record this. I just got back from a walk around the near west side. Amazing some things were still there being lived in. The front yards with their stone walls to hold the soil in, stone foundations and boarded up old buildings from 1918 and beyond. Also took a stroll up north Denver to about Haskel Pl. Yep, the old nursury school buildings were still there. A couple of mansions still standing also. I'll eventually will get the scoop on them. I did get to go up an alley between Tisdale and Denver near Golden I believe, Had a deja Vu experience looking at an somehow familiar house/ yard back in there. Funny how I can get excited over touring older areas when most would prefer touring the newer stuff. Even saw some people hang out at around Archer/Frisco?
Stopped and looked up at the street signs occasionally to keep from becoming lost. Good stuff.
.
Quote from: TheArtist on August 09, 2013, 05:53:48 PM
Indeed, and nice to have someone around from that era who remembers things lol. I usually get answers like "I think... well wait,,,, no, it was over there,.... hmmm actually, maybe it was there..... Hey Marge! Where was such and such!....... hmmm, you know I don't recall exactly.... What was it you wanted to know again?"
You talking bad about me again...??!!!
I lived on south Elwood (south of 13th) for about a year in the late 60's. Had a good friend who lived on Indian just north of 13th until he died. Has become a very "gentrified" area in recent years.
Also lived on Cincinnati just north of 18th for a while...what is now an exit ramp. Cute little duplex that I would love to have today!! Very comfortable and reasonable rent - $100 a month, bills paid. Ahhhh....the good old days! Oh, wait...I was making $1.40 an hour....
Found a great site on the webs describing in detail about remaining housing and business areas of old here:http://tulsapreservationcommission.org/nationalregister/districts/ (http://tulsapreservationcommission.org/nationalregister/districts/).
A good effort is being made to keep some of the old stuff. Nice stories on some of the old houses.
Brady Heights is putting on a historic home tour this coming Sunday.( Sept. 22) . This historic area is just north of downtown along Denver and along Cheyenne. I believe one of the oldest remaining houses from back in the day was relocated to Owen park a few years ago. This house was formerly located on north Cheyenne. Lots of other interesting history behind the doors of these mansion and houses. See www.bradyheights.org (http://www.bradyheights.org) for details on the tour.This is a "must see" for me. A literal walk though memory lane.