One of those things I'm glad I was proven wrong on:
QuoteTulsa's not big enough.
John Bolton heard those words from Los Angeles music agents and Tulsa residents alike in the months before the opening of the city's BOK Center in September 2008.
"They thought (the arena) was maybe too large for the market and that we wouldn't be able to really sell enough tickets to have the large, big shows," said Bolton, the facility's general manager.
How wrong they were.
The iconic 19,199-seat downtown arena has spent nearly five years shattering expectations, selling out shows, attracting major artists and landing in national publications' rankings of the nation's top-performing venues.
And with performances by Paul McCartney kicking off its five-year anniversary celebration Wednesday and Thursday, the facility has proved again that Tulsa can attract the world's top performers.
"The BOK Center is really the beginning of what I believe has been the renaissance of our city," Mayor Dewey Bartlett said Tuesday in a ceremony rededicating the arena in honor of the coming milestone.
"But the real way that we can talk about it is just to say that Paul McCartney is here. ... He purposely has picked Tulsa, Oklahoma."
McCartney helped celebrate the BOK Center's first anniversary in a 2009 performance that still ranks as the arena's most lucrative event, having grossed $2.6 million in ticket sales.
But like any major star, landing McCartney, whose choice venues are major outdoor stadiums, took some arm-pulling - especially the first time, Bolton said.
"That was probably the hardest thing," he said. "The back-door politics of it - trying to get people convinced that Tulsa was a real concert market."
Bolton, an executive with the arena's worldwide management company, SMG, had doubts of his own when he was assigned to Tulsa during the facility's construction in 2007. Then, a year in advance of the building's opening, tickets for a Celine Dion concert went on sale.
It was a sellout.
"Once Celine went on sale and it sold out, we had a track record, and all of a sudden the next show worked and the next show worked," Bolton said. "Then it became just, 'Oh my God! We've got to play Tulsa.' "
Since its first show on Sept. 6, 2008 - a sold-out concert by the Eagles - the BOK Center has sold 3.3 million tickets, collected $104.4 million in ticket revenue and generated more than $11.1 million in sales tax.
It has been consistently recognized as one of the nation's top venues, nominated four straight years for Pollstar magazine's Arena of the Year award and ranked by the publication last month as the 14th most-attended arena so far this year.
But most surprising is that attendance has held steady each year between 600,000 and 740,000, bucking a trend among arenas of declining revenue after an initial "honeymoon period," Bolton said.
"Typically, the honeymoon period continues for maybe six months after the building opens, and we've been able to continue that," he said.
Concerts tend to be the arena's bread and butter, but other successes have included attracting a WNBA basketball team - the Tulsa Shock - and national sporting events such as the NCAA college basketball tournament and the 2013 Bassmaster Classic.
The $178 million facility, funded mostly by revenue bonds and a 13-year 0.6-cent sales tax, was the flagship project of Tulsa County's Vision 2025 initiative in 2003.
Renowned architect Cesar Pelli, famous for designing the Petronas Towers in Malaysia, drew up a swirling aluminum-clad exterior and an eye-popping glass facade in response to city officials' request for an "iconic" structure.
The design gave Tulsa "a true icon - a building that people visit just to see it, let alone see a show here," former Mayor Bill LaFortune said Tuesday.
LaFortune helped lead the Vision 2025 campaign along with former Tulsa County Commissioner Bob Dick. Bartlett said during Tuesday's rededication ceremony that a plaque honoring both men will be placed in the facility's lobby.
"People always say, 'You didn't get enough credit for the BOK Center," LaFortune said. "Well, I enjoy as a citizen the fact that we have this."
The ceremony was just the start of fifth-anniversary celebrations, with Gov. Mary Fallin getting in on the fun by declaring Paul McCartney Day on Wednesday.
After McCartney's performances, an Oct. 4 concert by Blake Shelton and two yet-to-be-announced major shows closer to the actual anniversary will also be billed as celebrations, Bolton said.
www.tulsaworld.com
So we've almost broke even I guess...
Why are they saying it has been five years? The first show was in September.
I think this is some sort of election-related made-up news.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on May 29, 2013, 05:16:06 PM
I think this is some sort of election-related made-up news.
"Your" candidate can probably answer that.
I would think any good news about the BokCenter would help the woman candidate I like. I didn't see her involved in any of the coverage, though. Odd.
I just read in the story above that the first show was in September and it struck me as odd that they would be talking about the anniversary date over three months early.
I'm not sure how anyone could have thought this was not a great investment......
Quote from: RecycleMichael on May 29, 2013, 05:30:03 PM
I would think any good news about the BokCenter would help the woman democrat of any gender, race, etc candidate I blindly support I like. I didn't see her involved in any of the coverage, though. Odd.
fixed it.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on May 29, 2013, 05:30:03 PM
I would think any good news about the BokCenter would help the woman candidate I like. I didn't see her involved in any of the coverage, though. Odd.
I haven't seen her involved in the anniversary. I think I saw a claim in one of her campaign ads that she helped bring it (BOK Center) in on time. I won't argue with that but I won't give her sole credit either.
QuoteI just read in the story above that the first show was in September and it struck me as odd that they would be talking about the anniversary date over three months early.
Without specific examples, I will say that seems to be a trend anymore. Must be public school math.
I think the timing was Paul McCartney's, not the arena management or politicians patting themselves on the backs.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on May 29, 2013, 05:30:03 PM
I would think any good news about the BokCenter would help the woman candidate I like. I didn't see her involved in any of the coverage, though. Odd.
I just read in the story above that the first show was in September and it struck me as odd that they would be talking about the anniversary date over three months early.
It's a series of anniversary concerts. McCartney is just the first one.
Quote from: guido911 on May 29, 2013, 05:47:34 PM
fixed it.
Pot calling kettle. Pot calling kettle. Come in kettle. Over.
Quote from: zstyles on May 29, 2013, 05:03:31 PM
So we've almost broke even I guess...
negative nancy...
I did some calculations and found that the sales tax associated with the ticket sales was only 8.8 Mil, so that left about 2.3M, which equals and additional revenue of 25.9 Mil. I am not 100% sure if that is associated directly with sales at the BOK or if it includes additional sales downtown. Either way, that is an additional 5Mil per year in revenue being spent downtown. Had Tulsa not had a venue for concerts, there is a pretty reasonable chance that this money would have been spent in OKC or elsewhere.
Quote from: JCnOwasso on May 30, 2013, 09:16:54 AM
negative nancy...
I did some calculations and found that the sales tax associated with the ticket sales was only 8.8 Mil, so that left about 2.3M, which equals and additional revenue of 25.9 Mil. I am not 100% sure if that is associated directly with sales at the BOK or if it includes additional sales downtown. Either way, that is an additional 5Mil per year in revenue being spent downtown. Had Tulsa not had a venue for concerts, there is a pretty reasonable chance that this money would have been spent in OKC or elsewhere.
Pretty certain the $11.1 million is sales tax generated soley in the BOK center. That would be from tickets (I would assume tickets are subject to sales tax), concessions, and unless there is an exemption for the memorabilia vendors to collect sales tax in the BOK, memorabilia. Sales tax and convention/visitor tax collected as a result of shows there I'm sure has been outstanding. We would not have that revenue without the BOK. As well, there's a civic pride which has accompanied this facility and the events we now attract which is invaluable. I find it funny some noted bloggers still hate on the BOK, one in particular saying temporarily renaming the streets around the BOK with Beatles references was a sign of Tulsa's low self-esteem. Really?
MC and I decided to pass on $45 Sir Paul shirts last night as we already have far too many t-shirts to start with.
By the way, Sir Paul was the best show I've seen by far. Most aging rockers are merely a caricature of their former selves. For being nearly 71, and performing for around 50 years, he puts on a spectacular show. His voice and vocal range is still mostly all there, and his physical presence on stage is energetic, and the back up band he has assembled is tight. He's a great story teller as well with tributes to John, George, and the Moore tornado victims.
If you are on the fence about picking up some tix at the last minute for tonight, do it, you won't regret it.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 30, 2013, 10:23:04 AM
Pretty certain the $11.1 million is sales tax generated soley in the BOK center. That would be from tickets (I would assume tickets are subject to sales tax), concessions, and unless there is an exemption for the memorabilia vendors to collect sales tax in the BOK, memorabilia. Sales tax and convention/visitor tax collected as a result of shows there I'm sure has been outstanding. We would not have that revenue without the BOK. As well, there's a civic pride which has accompanied this facility and the events we now attract which is invaluable. I find it funny some noted bloggers still hate on the BOK, one in particular saying temporarily renaming the streets around the BOK with Beatles references was a sign of Tulsa's low self-esteem. Really?
MC and I decided to pass on $45 Sir Paul shirts last night as we already have far too many t-shirts to start with.
By the way, Sir Paul was the best show I've seen by far. Most aging rockers are merely a caricature of their former selves. For being nearly 71, and performing for around 50 years, he puts on a spectacular show. His voice and vocal range is still mostly all there, and his physical presence on stage is energetic, and the back up band he has assembled is tight. He's a great story teller as well with tributes to John, George, and the Moore tornado victims.
If you are on the fence about picking up some tix at the last minute for tonight, do it, you won't regret it.
In which case, that is great... the BOK has generated over 100M in ticket revenue and over 11M in sales tax. Can't forget the food and drinks prior to the shows, heck... when we went to the Black Keys, we dropped $100 on food and drinks before heading over to the BOK, we were with another couple who did the same thing and we met other folks at the Tavern and were going to the concert. On top of that, we rented a room at a DT hotel, as did our friends and we ate at the Blue Dome Diner the next morning. All told, we spent a lot... as do many people. Money we had previously spent to go to OKC or Dallas for concerts.
I know I am preaching to the choir, but I was one of those folks who said the BOK would be a bust. I was wrong. Was listening to John Klein who mentioned that on Memorial day, the Drillers had a sell out, there was something going on at Guthrie Green and the Shock had a sellout. Three things that would not happened had the BOK center not been built.... Sure, downtown development could have very well happened without the BOK, but I think it would have been significantly slower.
I confess I get a little schadenfreud every time I overhear people at a BOK Center event complaining about that drive back to OKC.
This arena is a win, win, win for the City of Tulsa. Whatever tax revenues it brings in are simply icing on top.
Quote from: DTowner on May 30, 2013, 11:15:33 AM
I confess I get a little schadenfreud every time I overhear people at a BOK Center event complaining about that drive back to OKC.
This arena is a win, win, win for the City of Tulsa. Whatever tax revenues it brings in are simply icing on top.
Honestly they aren't getting the shows we are getting. Yes they have the Thunder, but they really can't schedule many shows during the NBA season and possible post season. This only helps Tulsa.
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 29, 2013, 09:05:38 PM
It's a series of anniversary concerts. McCartney is just the first one.
I don't see why they try to call them anniversary concerts. I haven't heard of any other arena trying to tie the construction of a building to a concert that just happens to be able to play within 5 months of when the building opened.
Quote from: JCnOwasso on May 30, 2013, 10:54:17 AM
I know I am preaching to the choir, but I was one of those folks who said the BOK would be a bust. I was wrong. Was listening to John Klein who mentioned that on Memorial day, the Drillers had a sell out, there was something going on at Guthrie Green and the Shock had a sellout. Three things that would not happened had the BOK center not been built.... Sure, downtown development could have very well happened without the BOK, but I think it would have been significantly slower.
The Shock had a
sell-out? :o
Good on them!
My wife and I looked at car tags as we rolled through the parking garage last night:
Louisiana, Texas, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri, Creek Nation...
The Tulsa World story said someone flew here from I think it was Venezuela just for the two shows. Of course not every show will bring people in from remote places, but I'm willing to bet this is more of a realistic attraction for tourism dollars than the entertainment district (ala Branson Landing) planned for the west bank in the 2007 River Tax proposal. I always looked at that as "Riverwalk Crossing North" and would do little more than cannibalize sales tax collections from other parts of the city.
With the variety of venues and events now in the downtown area, including Tulsa Tough coming up next week, we have some verifiable winners when it comes to attracting tourism dollars from out of state and from areas in-state we would not have otherwise.
Does adding the word "anniversary" help sell tickets?
I still think it is odd. But then, I also think guido is odd.
Now we are even.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 30, 2013, 02:43:29 PM
The Shock had a sell-out? :o
Good on them!
My wife and I looked at car tags as we rolled through the parking garage last night:
Louisiana, Texas, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri, Creek Nation...
The Tulsa World story said someone flew here from I think it was Venezuela just for the two shows. Of course not every show will bring people in from remote places, but I'm willing to bet this is more of a realistic attraction for tourism dollars than the entertainment district (ala Branson Landing) planned for the west bank in the 2007 River Tax proposal. I always looked at that as "Riverwalk Crossing North" and would do little more than cannibalize sales tax collections from other parts of the city.
With the variety of venues and events now in the downtown area, including Tulsa Tough coming up next week, we have some verifiable winners when it comes to attracting tourism dollars from out of state and from areas in-state we would not have otherwise.
I went to the game, the upper decks were closed and the lower bowl was maybe 2/3rds full. It was a fun game though, I hadn't been before and I was pretty impressed.
Quote from: swake on May 30, 2013, 02:56:46 PM
I went to the game, the upper decks were closed and the lower bowl was maybe 2/3rds full. It was a fun game though, I hadn't been before and I was pretty impressed.
Speaking of empty seats, I noticed blocks of empty seats throughout the arena last night, blocks 10 or 20 seats here and there throughout. I can only hope it was some a-hole scalper who got stuck with un-sellable seats.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 30, 2013, 02:43:29 PM
With the variety of venues and events now in the downtown area, including Tulsa Tough coming up next week, we have some verifiable winners when it comes to attracting tourism dollars from out of state and from areas in-state we would not have otherwise.
With the big Indian statue, we'll be unstoppable.
Quote from: BKDotCom on May 30, 2013, 03:17:53 PM
With the big Indian statue, we'll be unstoppable.
That's it! Finally, a use for Standpipe Hill! Of course if it's taken Shan Gray 10 years to produce an 8' replica of the statue, it may be a couple of centuries until we get it built.
It looks like crap on the outside with the rust look. I've enjoyed seeing DMB, the NCAA tourney, Oilers games and so on. But it looks like crap.
Quote from: BKDotCom on May 30, 2013, 03:17:53 PM
With the big Indian statue, we'll be unstoppable.
We're getting a big Indian statue? Oh boy! Please let it be Ganish.
(http://www.craftsinindia.com/newcraftsimages/brass_choki_ganesha.jpg)
Quote from: Conan71 on May 30, 2013, 02:43:29 PM
The Shock had a sell-out? :o
Good on them!
They actually turned people away, the problem is the corporate sponsors who have a plethora of (season) tickets let those seats sit empty which is terrible when you have people wanting to go to the game and get turned away at the door. Either way, it is a good start to the Shock's season. They should have one heck of a team from what I have heard.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on May 30, 2013, 02:44:25 PM
Does adding the word "anniversary" help sell tickets?
I still think it is odd. But then, I also think guido is odd.
Now we are even.
It sells a lot of Jewelry.
Rather have a the roll of duct tape arena or the toilet bowl arena?
(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/0924/nba_e_warriors11_600x400.jpg)
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11583606/golden-state-warriors-flush-notion-toilet-bowl-design
Quote from: rdj on September 25, 2014, 07:55:38 AM
Rather have a the roll of duct tape arena or the toilet bowl arena?
(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/0924/nba_e_warriors11_600x400.jpg)
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11583606/golden-state-warriors-flush-notion-toilet-bowl-design
And not even a Pelli design. Looked like his previous work.
I was going to riff on the Brady Bunch Movie where everything Mike Brady designed looked like the Brady house.
Quote from: Conan71 on September 25, 2014, 09:41:40 AM
And not even a Pelli design. Looked like his previous work.
I was going to riff on the Brady Bunch Movie where everything Mike Brady designed looked like the Brady house.
Obviously inspired by if not borrowed from Pelli.
How could they not see that they were designing a toilet bowl?
Quote from: carltonplace on September 25, 2014, 12:13:28 PM
Obviously inspired by if not borrowed from Pelli.
How could they not see that they were designing a toilet bowl?
I'd suggest they work with it. Make it convertible, have the lid lift up, put a giant swimming pool under the flooring, etc.
Quote from: rdj on September 25, 2014, 07:55:38 AM
Rather have a the roll of duct tape arena or the toilet bowl arena?
(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/0924/nba_e_warriors11_600x400.jpg)
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11583606/golden-state-warriors-flush-notion-toilet-bowl-design
The team currently does play in Oakland so they are kinda used to a toilet bowl.
(http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxuyq4hERJ1r3k1m8o1_500.png)
Someone had the guts to say no? I wish someone had said no to our rolled permanently water stained duck tape smush swirl design. I love that it's there but it gets uglier each time I see it.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 29, 2014, 03:06:21 PM
Someone had the guts to say no? I wish someone had said no to our rolled permanently water stained duck tape smush swirl design. I love that it's there but it gets uglier each time I see it.
Not me. Can't tell you how many times I've had out-of-town visitors comment to me how much they like the design. And how much more roomy the entire building is compared to just about any other arena its size. I've been to alot. Walking ScottTrade Center (St Louis) concourse makes you feel like your moving in a sardine cane. At least with ours, the design is functional.
But that's just me and my visitor's opinions. It elicits reaction for sure.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 29, 2014, 03:06:21 PM
Someone had the guts to say no? I wish someone had said no to our rolled permanently water stained duck tape smush swirl design. I love that it's there but it gets uglier each time I see it.
I'm actually a fan (except for the smudge).
Quote from: carltonplace on September 29, 2014, 03:11:35 PM
I'm actually a fan (except for the smudge).
I went last Saturday (Oiler open house) looked like they had been cleaning the facade. I saw repel lines and didnt' see any streaks of note.
Quote from: Hoss on September 29, 2014, 03:09:00 PM
Not me. Can't tell you how many times I've had out-of-town visitors comment to me how much they like the design. And how much more roomy the entire building is compared to just about any other arena its size. I've been to alot. Walking ScottTrade Center (St Louis) concourse makes you feel like your moving in a sardine cane. At least with ours, the design is functional.
But that's just me and my visitor's opinions. It elicits reaction for sure.
No complaints about the interior. It's great. The exterior is hideous, especially with the constant stains. Even a different material would be a massive upgrade. How was it not known at the time that it would stain constantly?
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 30, 2014, 09:49:44 AM
No complaints about the interior. It's great. The exterior is hideous, especially with the constant stains. Even a different material would be a massive upgrade. How was it not known at the time that it would stain constantly?
That was a constant criticism even before the first panels were laid.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 30, 2014, 09:49:44 AM
How was it not known at the time that it would stain constantly?
Well it is stainless steel.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 30, 2014, 09:49:44 AM
No complaints about the interior. It's great. The exterior is hideous, especially with the constant stains. Even a different material would be a massive upgrade. How was it not known at the time that it would stain constantly?
I would agree about the stains, but as I noted, they looked like they'd been cleaned. This building with the 8 percent incline from top to bottom doesn't lend itself to shedding water properly, especially with all the interlocking panels. I thought early on I'd read that the would clean them twice a year. I'm not so sure they've been keeping that up.
Quote from: Hoss on September 30, 2014, 10:17:43 AM
I would agree about the stains, but as I noted, they looked like they'd been cleaned. This building with the 8 percent incline from top to bottom doesn't lend itself to shedding water properly, especially with all the interlocking panels. I thought early on I'd read that the would clean them twice a year. I'm not so sure they've been keeping that up.
I recall that the blame for the staining was placed on the use of the wrong appoxy in the joints between the panels and that it was supposed to be changed out at some point. It's been a while, so that is relying on a foggy memory.
Quote from: Hoss on September 30, 2014, 10:17:43 AM
I would agree about the stains, but as I noted, they looked like they'd been cleaned. This building with the 8 percent incline from top to bottom doesn't lend itself to shedding water properly, especially with all the interlocking panels. I thought early on I'd read that the would clean them twice a year. I'm not so sure they've been keeping that up.
I've seen them clean it then start showing stains within a matter of weeks. It's just sad in my opinion.
Quote from: BKDotCom on September 30, 2014, 09:59:43 AM
Well it is stainless steel.
Don't make me use the pony again
Quote from: DTowner on September 30, 2014, 11:43:35 AM
I recall that the blame for the staining was placed on the use of the wrong appoxy in the joints between the panels and that it was supposed to be changed out at some point. It's been a while, so that is relying on a foggy memory.
Actually, I believe the majority of the staining is primarily caused by the silicon used in the window glazing weeping.
Quote from: Vision 2025 on October 01, 2014, 08:52:46 AM
Actually, I believe the majority of the staining is primarily caused by the silicon used in the window glazing weeping.
I also know that some engineers also said another reason for the streaking/staining was due to dust that would build up in the joints and run as it rained.
Quote from: Vision 2025 on October 01, 2014, 08:52:46 AM
Actually, I believe the majority of the staining is primarily caused by the silicon used in the window glazing weeping.
More likely bi-metalic galvanic corrosion. The contact between two seporate metals (i.e. stainless and aluminum). In the presence of an electrolyte created by rainwater, and city air, the window frames and steel skin exchange ions over the calk and in direct contact with each other. Concentrated aluminum oxide (and other oxide) residue dripping down. Can also take place at welds where differing metals are joined.
Normal. Nothing you can do about it. Arch has it too.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BvsTWZ03Gf0/TIBtCGwueNI/AAAAAAAANfo/duq-kIU6GN4/s1600/small+windows+(1+of+1).jpg)
Quote from: Gaspar on October 01, 2014, 10:40:38 AM
More likely bi-metalic galvanic corrosion. The contact between two seporate metals (i.e. stainless and aluminum). In the presence of an electrolyte created by rainwater, and city air, the window frames and steel skin exchange ions over the calk and in direct contact with each other. Concentrated aluminum oxide (and other oxide) residue dripping down. Can also take place at welds where differing metals are joined.
Normal. Nothing you can do about it. Arch has it too.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BvsTWZ03Gf0/TIBtCGwueNI/AAAAAAAANfo/duq-kIU6GN4/s1600/small+windows+(1+of+1).jpg)
Actually there is, dielectric unions but that's a discussion for another day. At least that's what you do in piping and plumbing to prevent it. May be different with structural materials.