Yes, it's probably a result of Koch money or they are somehow supporting the article, I know. Still, worth reading. Oklahoma City made the list.
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/01/wsj-only-14-cities-have-more-jobs-now-than-before-the-recession/
I also know its Bush's fault that six of these states are in Texas.
Quote from: guido911 on April 01, 2013, 04:55:06 PM
Yes, it's probably a result of Koch money or they are somehow supporting the article, I know. Still, worth reading. Oklahoma City made the list.
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/01/wsj-only-14-cities-have-more-jobs-now-than-before-the-recession/
I also know its Bush's fault that six of these states are in Texas.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/536184_236942943097351_509327548_n.jpg)
Has Texas subdivided already? Do you mean "cities?"
Here is an article setting out the net worth of California. From the article:
Quoteof $127.2 billion, according to an annual financial report issued by State Auditor Elaine Howle and the Bureau of State Audits.
The report, which covers the fiscal year ending June 30, 2012, says that the state's negative status -- all of its assets minus all of its liabilities -- increased that year, largely because it spent more than it received in revenue.
Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2013/03/state-auditor-california-net-worth-at-negative-127-billion.html#storylink=cpy
February job growth in Texas is the highest ever recorded? I know, the site is a Koch front.
http://www.catholicismusa.com/texas-job-growth-february-was-highest-growth-in-the-united-states-ever/
And a huge budget surplus. Maybe they should secede instead of donating back to the feds like a bunch of suckas.
This is good. Oklahoma No. 10 in best states to make a living.
http://www.money-rates.com/research-center/best-states-to-make-a-living/2013-complete-list.htm
Yes, it's a Koch outfit.
Quote from: guido911 on April 03, 2013, 05:52:35 PM
This is good. Oklahoma No. 10 in best states to make a living.
http://www.money-rates.com/research-center/best-states-to-make-a-living/2013-complete-list.htm
Watch out, if you advertise that too loud, we will get an influx of liberals begging for stuff like river islands, and free bicycles for the homeless.
It's best to keep prosperity a secret.
^^^
I'm more interested to know if we give credit for this national ranking to our republican house/sen/governor. I know if the news is sh!tty about this state, the reason is that we are dominated by a bunch of toothless, knuckle-dragging, religious zealots.
Ok, now before we pat ourselves on the back to the point of beating ourselves to death, some might have a little bit of a comment on how they define "best" and the criteria they used and did not use. If a place is say, an easy place to start a company or get a job, but is also one in which your more likely to be murdered, the roads are falling apart, have more hungry and starving children, die at an earlier age, offer very little in "quality of life/things to do", etc. Is it really one of the "best places to make a living"? May be the best place to make a dollar, but not the best place to actually enjoy living. Unless your main concern is making a buck and whether you live in or surrounded by abject misery doing it is not lol. Exaggeration there yes, but ya get my drift. I think the criteria are definitely worthy of considering and to be proud of, but they are not the only criteria worthy of considering.
Unfortunately, I can only speak from experience, and based on that. . .
I find Oklahoma an excellent place to live, raise 2 (soon to be 3) children, watch my income increase, take advantage of new business opportunities, watch my home value increase (almost 10% over the last 4 years according to the appraisal I had done in February), enjoy a low cost of living, eat good food, participate in the arts, give to a grateful community, enjoy nature, and just live comfortably.
I've lived in lots of cities, and that last one "live comfortably" is really hard to do in most of them.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 05, 2013, 02:00:06 PM
Unfortunately, I can only speak from experience, and based on that. . .
I find Oklahoma an excellent place to live, raise 2 (soon to be 3) children, watch my income increase, take advantage of new business opportunities, watch my home value increase (almost 10% over the last 4 years according to the appraisal I had done in February), enjoy a low cost of living, eat good food, participate in the arts, give to a grateful community, enjoy nature, and just live comfortably.
I've lived in lots of cities, and that last one "live comfortably" is really hard to do in most of them.
Your experience here mirrors my own. At one point in my life, I had convinced myself Tulsa was a great place to be
from. Six months in a megatropolis taught me Tulsa is a great place to be. For my working life and raising my daughters it's fantastic. I have other locales in mind for a working retirement some day, but it's no reflection on Tulsa, just where those opportunities happen to be.
And congratulations on soon to be 3, I had not heard that yet.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 05, 2013, 02:45:20 PM
Your experience here mirrors my own. At one point in my life, I had convinced myself Tulsa was a great place to be from. Six months in a megatropolis taught me Tulsa is a great place to be. For my working life and raising my daughters it's fantastic. I have other locales in mind for a working retirement some day, but it's no reflection on Tulsa, just where those opportunities happen to be.
And congratulations on soon to be 3, I had not heard that yet.
Thanks. I think we've finally figured out what causes that.
Quote from: TheArtist on April 05, 2013, 09:40:26 AM
Ok, now before we pat ourselves on the back to the point of beating ourselves to death, some might have a little bit of a comment on how they define "best" and the criteria they used and did not use. If a place is say, an easy place to start a company or get a job, but is also one in which your more likely to be murdered, the roads are falling apart, have more hungry and starving children, die at an earlier age, offer very little in "quality of life/things to do", etc. Is it really one of the "best places to make a living"? May be the best place to make a dollar, but not the best place to actually enjoy living. Unless your main concern is making a buck and whether you live in or surrounded by abject misery doing it is not lol. Exaggeration there yes, but ya get my drift. I think the criteria are definitely worthy of considering and to be proud of, but they are not the only criteria worthy of considering.
I know I went from cities with job gains to Oklahoma being a great state to earn a living. But sheesh...
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5418767360/h225EB813/)
Quote from: Gaspar on April 05, 2013, 02:00:06 PM
I find Oklahoma an excellent place to live, raise 2 (soon to be 3) children...
Three changes everything. You have to change from a man to man defense to playing zone.
I suppose its perspective. If your a young, or young at heart single, and or a person who wants to live in an urban setting not a suburban one, then Tulsa still seems to be lacking and I keep seeing people leave Tulsa to "greener pastures". They don't worry about the work, they are often highly educated or talented and find work or are the type that will create their own. They will even shack up with several roommates and live in a smaller apartment in order to "live" in a more lively, energetic, creative, urban environment. And more and more young adults with families are pushing into urban/pedestrian friendly living environments as well (we haven't developed to the point where that is very possible yet). It's been noted that Tulsa is a great place to raise a family and live a suburban lifestyle,,, but that isn't what everyone wants, and is not what everyone wants at every stage of their life. We are beginning to see some small smatterings of "urbanity" starting in Tulsa, but we still have a way to go. My old assistant of 6 years came back in town for the first time in about 4 years this Easter. He moved to Austin. I took him around town, into the Brady District, etc. to show off all the new things, but after hearing him talk about what all is going on there in Austin, (at one point he said "if you don't have 10 cranes in the air at one time... your not growing like Austin is lol) and kept telling me about the great opportunities he has had as an artist there etc. and I kinda started to feel a little down in the dumps.
Quote from: TheArtist on April 05, 2013, 09:40:26 AM
Ok, now before we pat ourselves on the back to the point of beating ourselves to death, some might have a little bit of a comment on how they define "best" and the criteria they used and did not use. If a place is say, an easy place to start a company or get a job, but is also one in which your more likely to be murdered, the roads are falling apart, have more hungry and starving children, die at an earlier age, offer very little in "quality of life/things to do", etc. Is it really one of the "best places to make a living"? May be the best place to make a dollar, but not the best place to actually enjoy living. Unless your main concern is making a buck and whether you live in or surrounded by abject misery doing it is not lol. Exaggeration there yes, but ya get my drift. I think the criteria are definitely worthy of considering and to be proud of, but they are not the only criteria worthy of considering.
I will have to agree that money is not the only thing to consider in choosing a place to live. However, being able to afford to do things I wanted to do with that money caused me to turn down a transfer to Silicon Valley in the late 80s. I went there on a business trip and, as usual, went driving around to see the area. I drove through a place called Los Gatos (near San Jose) and saw Mercedes, BMW, Lincoln, Cadillac and some other expensive cars in the driveways (usually no garage) of houses that would go for maybe $65,000 in Tulsa. I asked the next day and found those places were more like $300,000. When offered the transfer, I asked about a cost of living raise in salary. I think they offered less than $1000/yr. It's been quite a few years but even then that was no where near enough.
One of my cousins lived in Boston in the mid 70s through the 80s. It was a wonderful place to visit but how many times can you walk the Freedom Trail, visit the aquarium etc. My cousin rented a spot in a parking garage in case she couldn't find a spot on the street near her apartment. She still needed a car in spite of the available public transportation. Mostly she kept her windsurfer at the garage spot. I have to admit that hearing the Boston Pops live on the 4th of July was spectacular. We went somewhere nearby to a Greek restaurant for dinner in a less affluent area. Before we ordered, she felt uneasy about the environment so we left and had dinner at place on the waterfront. Mostly though, her life wasn't that much different than mine, just more expensive.
She lived in a top floor apartment on the SE corner of Commonwealth and Berkeley.
http://goo.gl/maps/BlhJ4
I lived in the dorm at college (undergraduate) and in the barracks in the Navy. Eight years, minus summers in college, was enough of that. I had no desire to find a half dozen (exaggeration) roomies to be able to live in some expensive place so I could spend all my spare time in a coffee house making one cup of coffee last 5 hours since I couldn't afford anything else. I understand that is what some people want to do but it wasn't for me.
Quote from: TheArtist on April 06, 2013, 08:56:06 AM
I suppose its perspective. If your a young, or young at heart single, and or a person who wants to live in an urban setting not a suburban one, then Tulsa still seems to be lacking and I keep seeing people leave Tulsa to "greener pastures". They don't worry about the work, they are often highly educated or talented and find work or are the type that will create their own. They will even shack up with several roommates and live in a smaller apartment in order to "live" in a more lively, energetic, creative, urban environment. And more and more young adults with families are pushing into urban/pedestrian friendly living environments as well (we haven't developed to the point where that is very possible yet). It's been noted that Tulsa is a great place to raise a family and live a suburban lifestyle,,, but that isn't what everyone wants, and is not what everyone wants at every stage of their life. We are beginning to see some small smatterings of "urbanity" starting in Tulsa, but we still have a way to go. My old assistant of 6 years came back in town for the first time in about 4 years this Easter. He moved to Austin. I took him around town, into the Brady District, etc. to show off all the new things, but after hearing him talk about what all is going on there in Austin, (at one point he said "if you don't have 10 cranes in the air at one time... your not growing like Austin is lol) and kept telling me about the great opportunities he has had as an artist there etc. and I kinda started to feel a little down in the dumps.
Of course it is perspective. . .
Most of my friends, and myself, all moved away when we were young because our perception was that Tulsa did not offer the lifestyle, adventure or opportunities we sought. What we learned (and it took some time) is that urban areas in Chicago, St. Louis, San Diego, Seattle, and other places are filled with wonderful opportunities and experiences, but what we also learned is that those places tend to be magnets that attract a very transient population of people looking for something (but not really knowing what). Sometimes it's the history, art and architecture. Sometimes it is a perceived freedom to express a different lifestyle, or an escape from the same. In many cases it is the romance displayed in the media, movies and TV that portrays the urban community as a utopia filled with equality, adventure and providence.
I must admit, for a while that life was indeed wonderful, but perspective evolves. Urban communities have a whole different set of problems and complications that people must overcome. Most of my good friends that I spent my 20s with in St. Louis, Chicago and California have grown away from the urban lifestyle. There are many reasons. Mostly, it's family (children drastically change the way you think). Cost, opportunity, space, freedom, convenience, equity. . .you name it.
My wife and I run with a fairly young professional crowd (30s - 40s suburban families with young children). The story is the same among them. Different cities, different adventures, but an overwhelmingly similar theme. They moved to _______ after college and got a job with XYZ corporation, or performed with XYZ theater, or went to finish their masters at XYZ university, or their residency at XYZ hospital, where they either met their spouse, or after a time found dating in the transient urban population exhausting. Either way they ended up making the decision to seek a more comfortable life, or a better environment to raise children. Not to say that that is not available in an urban atmosphere, it is just more scarce, and there are far more distractions and obstacles.
I love the cities where I used to live. We visit often, but each visit offers a reminder of why we love Tulsa so much, and makes the return home even more wonderful.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 08, 2013, 09:44:31 AM
Of course it is perspective. . .
....
I love the cities where I used to live. We visit often, but each visit offers a reminder of why we love Tulsa so much, and makes the return home even more wonderful.
Why do you suppose it is that so much of the discussion around here is based on the concept of making Tulsa as much like those other places as possible? Grow "this"...grow "that"...grow "this/that and the other".... We keep comparing ourselves to all other cities in the country, starting with OKC and working our way out, and appear to be wanting to chase that "dream"....
Too little appreciation of what Tulsa is and has IMO, and too much "we wanna be more like <fill in the latest 'growth' area in topic du jour>..."
And Owasso, Jenks, and Broken Arrow all three have double-doses of that same thing going on with them - for the last 25 years!
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on April 08, 2013, 12:15:44 PM
Why do you suppose it is that so much of the discussion around here is based on the concept of making Tulsa as much like those other places as possible? Grow "this"...grow "that"...grow "this/that and the other".... We keep comparing ourselves to all other cities in the country, starting with OKC and working our way out, and appear to be wanting to chase that "dream"....
Too little appreciation of what Tulsa is and has IMO, and too much "we wanna be more like <fill in the latest 'growth' area in topic du jour>..."
And Owasso, Jenks, and Broken Arrow all three have double-doses of that same thing going on with them - for the last 25 years!
+1
. . .and I would add, that a city is what the residents make it. Overwhelmingly, Tulsa residents have done a very good job at making our city exactly what we want. There is always room for improvement, and will always be challenges. There will also always be small groups of people who want to make Tulsa something else and become unhappy when they cannot swing the mind of the majority to their way of thinking. That is the great thing about this country, we have a very wide range of diverse communities, climates, and economies. Our government does not force you to live in any specific one of them, or require you to pursue any predetermined vocation.
There are several wonderful options for those who dislike Tulsa. There is I44, 169, 412, 64, and Tulsa International.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 08, 2013, 12:52:33 PM
There are several wonderful options for those who dislike Tulsa. There is I44, 169, 412, 64, and Tulsa International.
They can also resign their account in this place as well.
Quote from: guido911 on April 08, 2013, 01:03:34 PM
They can also resign their account in this place as well.
Thanks, best advice I've gotten from a shark.
Quote from: dbacks fan on April 08, 2013, 01:42:27 PM
Thanks, best advice I've gotten from a shark.
That's a shame.
Quote from: dbacks fan on April 08, 2013, 01:42:27 PM
Thanks, best advice I've gotten from a shark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVrEwCa8nSA
Actually most of the responses on here pretty much back up what I am trying to get at.
Sure, many want that "urban lifestyle" when they are young and then later move on to wanting something else.
One point is... why can't we be a city that offers something for everyone at every age and point in life? And yes, there are many that want the pedestrian friendly/urban lifestlye, not just when they are young. So many on here moved away to experience that. Why should they have to move away? Heck, why can't we have some urbanity that people from other places move to, and then perhaps choose to stay and raise a family in the suburbs? You don't have to be a huge city to offer that, when we were smaller we had more of it lol. Currently, it's only legal in less than one percent of the city to build quality urban spaces. In the rest the zoning pushes for suburban style growth (and we are not going to have the room to grow that type of growth within our city forever).
Also, I think we are missing out on a large demographic that do like the urban/pedestrian friendly lifestyle,,, and always like it. Kind of hard to hear about those people and have those examples when we don't have them here. Also, I too know many people who lived in a more urban environement, moved to the suburbs when they had kids, but tell me... as soon as the kids are gone, they want to move back to a more urban/pedestrian friendly lifestlyle, they reeeeally want that and would even move right now if the good schools were there.
As for growth, your either growing or dying. There is no "keep it the same" for there is this thing called competition. If your not growing or getting better, your competition will be. Also, you start your own company and then tell me you don't want growth. Growth equals more and easier opportunity. The slower the growth, the more difficult it is to start and or grow your own company.
Combining a little of both notions, urbanity and growth. Sooner or later the easy, suburban growth is going to be "maxed out" within the city of Tulsa and your going to be left with "slower/more difficult areas" of growth for suburban style development, and infill. So the "new" "in places/neighborhoods" cheap homes, new shopping centers, new schools, good school grades,etc. areas will be more and more outside the city limits. If we don't at least make it legal to develop good urban style living options in Tulsa, we will be left with less desirable ones than our competitor cities who do, or already have more.