This is all just an idea so far, doesn't look near as nice as what the River Master Plan has for that area, but hey... who pays attention to plans?
/sarcasm
Plan #137 for this area involves a few restaurants, and building a permanent, nicer, volleyball area. This is all city property.
(http://www.tulsaworld.com//articleimages/2013/parks03132013asgas.jpg)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130313_16_A1_CUTLIN818767
P.S. Favorite comments from the TW article:
vegan
Let the Creek Indians pay for all this, make them pay back some of the millions they've stolen from us since they opened up their crooked casino down the street.
Ogre
I can help with your gambling loses. I have a fool proof system. Wait for it. Stay out of the casino. Bam never lose a dime to the casino again.
vegan
I have an addictive personality Ogre, it's not going to be that easy
IIRC, this was the original vicinity proposed for the aquarium circa 1991 or 1992. Instead we let Jenks have it and the surrounding development. It really is a perfect parcel for development and could handle the traffic count with the existing infrastructure.
As per the comments on the Creeks, I understand talks are underway again for them to finally relocate the trail behind the casino complex.
This is a nice plan and I will put it with all the other nice plans that get shelved and forgotten.
71st between Riverside and Lewis is looking pretty shabby. Not sure this plan would be a catalyst to change that reality.
Quote from: DTowner on March 13, 2013, 11:56:02 AM
This is a nice plan and I will put it with all the other nice plans that get shelved and forgotten.
71st between Riverside and Lewis is looking pretty shabby. Not sure this plan would be a catalyst to change that reality.
Of course not. All development should be in the IDL. ::)
What type of restaraunts? Upscale?
I heard recently that St. John/Omni were looking at putting an Urgent Care and clinic somewhere around that area. Seems like I remember 76th being mentioned.
Quote from: Teatownclown on March 13, 2013, 12:02:34 PM
Of course not. All development should be in the IDL. ::)
oh jeez. colon colon close parenthesis indeed.
Smart development is wanted everywhere. Development that encourages you to park your car
once and then spend time enjoying the area. 71st Street type development that you seem to prefer has its place, but putting Black Friday capacity parking lots in front of every business is just wasteful. Land should mean more to us then just use as a big blacktop heating element.
Quote from: DTowner on March 13, 2013, 11:56:02 AM
This is a nice plan and I will put it with all the other nice plans that get shelved and forgotten.
71st between Riverside and Lewis is looking pretty shabby. Not sure this plan would be a catalyst to change that reality.
The biggest problem for 71st & Riverside might be 61st & Peoria.
Quote from: patric on March 14, 2013, 12:33:28 PM
The biggest problem for 71st & Riverside might be 61st & Peoria.
Luby's and the angry older clientele who can't get to the parking lot due to increased traffic.
Quote from: patric on March 14, 2013, 12:33:28 PM
The biggest problem for 71st & Riverside might be 61st & Peoria.
There is a good reason that field at Peoria and Riverside is still a field (which, if memory serves, once had a plan to build a hotel).
Quote from: Teatownclown on March 13, 2013, 12:02:34 PM
Of course not. All development should be in the IDL. ::)
Better than an area that should be a public park.
Look at the area adjacent to the Blue Rose and tell me we need more river development. If you want to see more greenspace turned into parking lots, more grass turned into dirt because employees park there, more dumpsters and food delivery trucks in the park, then why do we even need parks in the first place?
If we want our parks to look like the back end of a strip mall, just go for a jog behind a strip mall.
Quote from: TheTed on March 15, 2013, 12:43:43 PM
If we want our parks to look like the back end of a strip mall power plant, just go for a jog in front of a strip mall freeway or dirty river.
Just so you do understand....there are two sides to this idea. :o
This might undermine any hotel project at 71st & Riverside for a little while:
Creek Nation plans new 22-story hotel, other additions at River Spirit location
By JARREL WADE World Staff Writer
Published: 3/18/2013 3:49 PM
Last Modified: 3/18/2013 4:02 PM
Muscogee (Creek) Nation gaming officials are expanding their River Spirit Casino and entering a partnership with Margaritaville to open a 22-story hotel along the Arkansas River.
The 500-room hotel tower will finish in early 2015 and will accompany a new casino, restaurant, pool-bar area, theater and more — all bearing Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville brand, according to Muscogee (Creek) Nation Casinos officials.
"We wanted something that would really sizzle," said Pat Crofts, casino chief executive officer. "Simply building onto the casino is just cutting the pie more."
The announcement came weeks after River Parks trail officials announced Creek Nation officials would be moving the portion of trail that runs along Riverside Drive from in front of the casino, 8330 Riverside Parkway, to run along the Arkansas River to the west of it.
River Parks Executive Director Matt Meyer said the reroute of the trail — at the tribe's expense — is an appreciated improvement to the trail system that runs along the Arkansas River from 11th Street to 101st Street.
"It's all good," Meyer said. "We've been talking with the Creeks for several years about rerouting the trail."
The reroute will avoid traffic in the area caused in large part by the casino. Officials including Meyer said the trail's proximity to traffic was a safety concern.
"We just feel it will be safer for everyone," he said.
The new trail will at least meet the same design as the rest of the trail, but the designers will have room to improve on it if they want, Meyer said.
The $250 million total expansion is projected to add 800 new jobs and 1,800 construction jobs through 2014, according to a Creek Nation press release.
The combined, annual economic impact is projected to be about $135 million with an annual payroll of about $38 million, according a report prepared by the Tulsa Regional Chamber.
Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130318_11_0_Muscog357506
Quote from: DTowner on March 18, 2013, 04:06:43 PM
Creek Nation plans new 22-story hotel, other additions at River Spirit location
Maybe they know they'll soon be able to river taxi their guests back and forth to Riverwalk.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/894886_10151375177001446_2145589440_o.jpg)
Just what our economy needs. A huge casino.
::)
They already have the casino. I am just wondering how they plan on keeping the palm trees green during the first ice storm. I don't mind the Margaritaville nameplate, they do a good job at Pensacola Beach without a casino. http://www.margaritavillehotel.com/ (http://www.margaritavillehotel.com/)
This looks nothing like the current casino, and I had heard that land won't sustain anything taller than about 50'
Not a big casino person, but if they're going to do one, they should go big like the Cherokees did.
Quote from: joiei on March 18, 2013, 05:17:36 PM
They already have the casino. I am just wondering how they plan on keeping the palm trees green during the first ice storm. I don't mind the Margaritaville nameplate, they do a good job at Pensacola Beach without a casino. http://www.margaritavillehotel.com/ (http://www.margaritavillehotel.com/)
Maybe they will resort to tacky neon palm trees or metal cut-outs.
Quote from: sgrizzle on March 18, 2013, 05:33:50 PM
This looks nothing like the current casino, and I had heard that land won't sustain anything taller than about 50'
You would be amazed at what you could do if you dont have to follow city or state codes.
Quote from: sgrizzle on March 18, 2013, 05:33:50 PM
This looks nothing like the current casino, and I had heard that land won't sustain anything taller than about 50'
Not a big casino person, but if they're going to do one, they should go big like the Cherokees did.
The area they are in can't be much different underground/bedrockwise than the Cityplex and I am faaairly certain that is over 50'. Not to mention the hotel a few blocks away by the Wal-Mart.
The $250 million total expansion is projected to add 800 new jobs and 1,800 construction jobs through 2014, according to a Creek Nation press release.
The combined, annual economic impact is projected to be about $135 million with an annual payroll of about $38 million, according a report prepared by the Tulsa Regional Chamber.
Are these net figures? Doubtful. Tulsa hasn't grown enough that this doesn't just represent taking economics from existing business. Unless we are entering into the realm of a casino destination city, then goodbye to quality of life.
BTW, you could build as high as you want along the river as long as you go down far enough to find a suitable base, and are unencumbered by government. Expensive, but then its only tribal money.
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/164488_10151376036591446_138795984_n.jpg)
Note the small river taxi in bottom right corner.
These planners have a lot more faith in river control and the possible construction of a dam at Jenks than I do. Its like they've never seen 300,000 cfs coming down that area.
But, you gotta' have dreams.
This hotel project has been rumored for a few years, and is why the newer parking garage was built so large in the first place. I am most interested in what they do with the trail. It looks like it will bridge the creek there which is great. This could be a nice play for visitors to stay in south Tulsa, especially in the spring/summer with that pool.
As I recall, the Creeks originally planned to build a hotel in conjunction with the River Spirit Casino, but delayed the hotel portion due to funding/economic conditions at the time. Clearly, this is an attempt to broaden the customer base by making River Spirit much more of a destination resort type casino.
Are they going to do something to dress up the existing casino? As it is now it looks like something Rust-Oleum put up to show how their products stand up to weather.
Margaritaville and Palm trees. Classy. Southies will flock here.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 19, 2013, 10:39:51 AM
Margaritaville and Palm trees. Classy. Southies will flock here.
Our Mecca
Quote from: Ibanez on March 19, 2013, 10:06:14 AM
As it is now it looks like something Rust-Oleum put up to show how their products stand up to weather.
Nailed it
For my friends at Tulsa Now:
PMg Native (a subsidiary of Program Management Group) is the overall Project Manager, we have been working with the Casino for the past six months assembling the team and I can tell you this is a really exciting project...creating a destination resort to draw from much larger demographic than the Tulsa Metro while providing excellent entertainment options for the region.
The renderings you have seen were produced by HKS (Dallas office) and they are the project Architect having been selected from 18 firms/teams invited to submit qualifications.
The Construction Manager is a Joint Venture of Manhattan and Redstone.
And yes the project team fully understands the River and the RED is going to be addressed!
Kirby
Another:
(http://media2.kjrh.com//photo/2013/03/19/river1_20130319101220_640_480.JPG)
We Dubai now?
Quote from: YoungTulsan on March 19, 2013, 02:34:04 PM
We Dubai now?
Not until some billionaire drops the $ to make it where we can truly ski the Tulsa Mountains!!
Hard Rock's new hotel tower opened. Thunder appears to be stolen.
Casino Expansion Could Mean More River Improvementshttp://publicradiotulsa.org/post/casino-expansion-could-mean-more-river-improvements (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/casino-expansion-could-mean-more-river-improvements)
QuoteThe Arkansas River may not look like a tropical paradise right now, but the Muscogee (Creek) Nation plans to change that, at least at its 81st Street River Spirit Casino.
It's planning on adding a new 22-story hotel and a Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville Casino and Restaurant.
Muscogee (Creek) Principal Chief George Tiger says tribal investment in Arkansas River infrastructure is a definite possibility.
"We're looking at alternatives, options, if you will," he said, "about how we can put water on the river."
The additions to the complex will include a swimming pool and a deck overlooking the river.
"To be able to look at developing something where we could put water on the river is a priority," Tiger said, "not only with what we want to do with this facility, but other things that we have visions for in the future."
The resort, once finished, is expected to add around 800 new full-time jobs.
The projected annual economic impact of the additions is estimated at more than $135 million.
Quote from: Townsend on March 19, 2013, 03:33:22 PM
Casino Expansion Could Mean More River Improvements
http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/casino-expansion-could-mean-more-river-improvements (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/casino-expansion-could-mean-more-river-improvements)
After just getting back from St. Louis and seeing their riverfront, I'd love to see us do something with ours. Just seems so difficult though.
Quote from: Hoss on March 19, 2013, 03:39:03 PM
After just getting back from St. Louis and seeing their riverfront, I'd love to see us do something with ours. Just seems so difficult though.
It might help when both sides of the river are owned by a wealthy tribe with strong business interests.
Quote from: Vision 2025 on March 19, 2013, 11:39:41 AM
For my friends at Tulsa Now:
PMg Native (a subsidiary of Program Management Group) is the overall Project Manager, we have been working with the Casino for the past six months assembling the team and I can tell you this is a really exciting project...creating a destination resort to draw from much larger demographic than the Tulsa Metro while providing excellent entertainment options for the region.
The renderings you have seen were produced by HKS (Dallas office) and they are the project Architect having been selected from 18 firms/teams invited to submit qualifications.
The Construction Manager is a Joint Venture of Manhattan and Redstone.
And yes the project team fully understands the River and the RED is going to be addressed!
Kirby
How is making us the Branson of casinos exciting? We're better than this.
Quote from: Hoss on March 19, 2013, 03:39:03 PM
After just getting back from St. Louis and seeing their riverfront, I'd love to see us do something with ours. Just seems so difficult though.
Arkansas River vs. Mississippi River might be a player.
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 19, 2013, 04:15:11 PM
Arkansas River vs. Mississippi River might be a player.
Yep. Helps to have some damned water in the Arkansas "river". I mean, Arkansas sand trap.
I noticed that sand is being moved in Zink Lake.
I have confidence in Kirby's knowledge of how this river works and how to work with it. Its his business to know. The proposed water park at 31st is creative, exciting and ultimately the best type of participatory use of the river. Tons better than standing on the top of a casino hotel with champagne glasses.
I have no confidence that Tulsa has the stomach to participate in the real life issues and costs that river development will entail. Security, ongoing maintenance, repair, management and operational costs. Those who have followed this 50 year depressing saga of proposed dams and entertainment on the river know that the original Zink dam built in the early 80's was supposed to be kept operational by regular dredging. Now, 30 years later, promoters include that dredging as key to keeping the lakes usable. Genius.
I have no confidence that River Parks Authority knows anything but how to mow the grass, cut down trees, mark the paths and manipulate its funding sources and the press. Shaving sand off the bars in order to cover them with water is phony baloney. Total PR. Just like shaving, the beard is sure to come back quickly. The current sand bars are a couple seasons in making.
I remember writing a decade ago that Tulsa is not a "water" community and that doing a business on the river would have to be supported by outside interests, outside patronage and in spite of the locals errant view that the river is alternately a sand trap or a polluted mess. Tulsa, it seems, is about beer, gambling, restaurants, oil and religion. Oh,yeah, and guns. Of course, guns and gun shows.
I wish Bartlett, the Chamber and the Creeks bon chance. You have to ask, "If we can put water in the river in 5 years or less, why haven't we done so?" Doesn't matter to me anymore, my 5 year plan has me somewhere else.
Water makes you stupid. Look at surfers.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 20, 2013, 08:07:57 AM
I noticed that sand is being moved in Zink Lake.
Arkansas River sand being moved to deepen water level for power plant
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130319_16_A9_CUTLIN257871
The goal is to create a more consistent - and high-level - flow of water for AEP-PSO's plant on the west bank of the river.
The River Parks Authority announced in February that it had asked the city, county and American Electric Power-Public Service Company of Oklahoma for $250,000 each to fund temporary improvements to the dam. River Parks would also contribute $250,000.
River Parks Authority Executive Director Matt Meyer said his organization has included $250,000 for dam improvements in its funding request to the city and will tap into its reserve funds to pay its portion.
Meyer said he plans to meet with AEP-PSO officials soon to discuss the utility's potential contribution to the improvement project.
In addition to repositioning the silt and sand in the river, the funds will be used to replate the dam's three gates and replace seals.
River Parks officials have been looking for new funding options to repair the dam since the fall, when two potential major funding sources fell through.
Tulsa County's contribution is coming in the form of work.
"We're just knocking down the level of that sand below the water line," said Scott Gray, the District 2 highway maintenance superintendent. "This way, you'll see water instead of a sandbar."
so they are "moving" it rather than "removing" it.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 20, 2013, 01:19:10 PM
so they are "moving" it rather than "removing" it.
Probably just moving it to trucks who will spread it out as sandblast material on US169
I guess I don't see why everyone is disappointed. This is a good looking building going up and adds a pretty big regional draw to Tulsa. Gamblers are not all trash, and the resort will allow for more than gambling to take place anyways. Now if they would trash the name Margaritaville as well as the palm trees, it would really make me happy.
I'm excited to see the project start.
It's the white man's comeuppance... make that the Downtown man's comeuppance.
Quote from: Teatownclown on March 20, 2013, 01:55:25 PM
make that the Downtown man's comeuppance.
Different clientele.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 20, 2013, 01:19:10 PM
so they are "moving" it rather than "removing" it.
Like those chairs on the Titanic.
I spoke with the PSO guys working on the pump at the end of the pedestrian bridge a couple years ago. They have always had trouble getting enough water because of the sand build up on that west side. They have to drop a pickup tube into the river to augment the inlets. Its not like this has just happened. However, the tractors moving sand in the river conveniently coincides with the pr blitz of the Creek development. Strange that.
I'm not unhappy with the Creeks developing their land and working with the non Native Americans to do so. Like I said a decade ago, it will take outsiders to make change along the river. I just didn't think it would take another nation. And I am very dubious of the figures being thrown around as to net positive impacts on the community.
Quote from: AquaMan on March 20, 2013, 02:17:06 PM
I spoke with the PSO guys working on the pump at the end of the pedestrian bridge a couple years ago. They have always had trouble getting enough water because of the sand build up on that west side. They have to drop a pickup tube into the river to augment the inlets. Its not like this has just happened. However, the tractors moving sand in the river conveniently coincides with the pr blitz of the Creek development. Strange that.
I saw a note from Riverparks that said PSO is working with them on a future plan for that.
I was at 81st and Riverside this afternoon and saw construction vehicles out on the sand in the riverbed.
That is part of the sand mining operation.
Quote from: Vision 2025 on March 27, 2013, 09:30:05 PM
That is part of the sand mining operation.
Some tell them to work harder.
Noticed the work has started along the SW corner of the intersection.
Any updates on what is being built?
Not a 100% sure if development efforts mentioned is related to just this project or a wider area but noticed this in the OKC Riverfront Redevelopment Authority monthly report.
QuoteAt the request of Tulsa Mayor Dewey Bartlett Jr, the [OKC] Director of [River] Development provided a tour and briefing on the Oklahoma River project for newly appointed lead river liaison, Mr Robert Gardner. Mr Gardner will oversee Tulsa's Arkansas River development efforts on behalf of the Mayor Bartlett.
Quote from: Snowman on April 27, 2014, 02:26:55 AM
Not a 100% sure if development efforts mentioned is related to just this project or a wider area but noticed this in the OKC Riverfront Redevelopment Authority monthly report.
OKC drainage ditch
Our river is held in low regard by its locals as well. The difference is they made theirs into something that attracts investment and usage.
Quote from: AquaMan on April 27, 2014, 11:22:46 AM
Our river is held in low regard by its locals as well. The difference is they made theirs into something that attracts investment and usage.
I see actually having someone in charge of river development and actively seeking advice from other successful river projects is a good start. I won't hold my breath until we see real action though.