Any thoughts about the State of the state address? I thought it was very good, Fallin's pressure to cut our state income taxes is a good thing. Mary Fallin mentioned that Oklahoma's ecomony is the 4th strongest in the nation- that's pretty impressive.. Oklahoma's income tax is still very high Mary Fallin needs to work on getting rid of that tax totally. The State of Kansas is thinking about doing away with their state income tax, that would hurt Oklahoma if they do that. Anyhow I was very impressed with the State Of the State. The Governor has Oklahoma on the right course for a stong economy. The state of Oklahoma has attracted many new jobs. :)
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 05, 2013, 10:20:43 AM
Any thoughts about Mary Fallin's State of the state? I thought it was very good, her pressure to cut our state income taxes is great. Mary Fallin mentioned that Oklahoma's ecomony is the 4th strongest in the nation- that's pretty impressive.. Oklahoma's income tax is still very high Mary Fallin needs to work on getting rid of that tax totally. The State of Kansas is thinking about doing away with their state income tax, that would hurt Oklahoma if they do that. Anyhow I was very impressed with the State Of the State. Mary Fallin has Oklahoma on the right course for a stong economy. The state of Oklahoma has attracted many new jobs.
Talking about yourself in third person is creepy.
She is talking about cutting the income tax rate from 5.25% to 5%. That is hardly enough to attract vast amounts of new employers to relocate here.
Of course that means less revenue which has to be made up by increasing "fees" or local and county sales taxes because we are doing nothing to decrease the size of government. If Republican lawmakers and other elected officials would actually pair spending cuts with tax cuts, we would get somewhere. Instead, we bump along from one financial crisis to the next, and on a national level keep digging a deeper pit of debt.
Six words.
I voted for the other candidate.
Quote from: Townsend on February 05, 2013, 10:22:04 AM
Talking about yourself in third person is creepy.
Sauerkraut talking has proven to be creepy. Talking in the third person doesn't really change that.
Quote from: Hoss on February 05, 2013, 10:32:37 AM
Sauerkraut talking has proven to be creepy. Talking in the third person doesn't really change that.
What was GG's term for him?
If GG's got issues with him, you know Sauerkraut's a bad person.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 05, 2013, 10:29:06 AM
She is talking about cutting the income tax rate from 5.25% to 5%. That is hardly enough to attract vast amounts of new employers to relocate here.
Of course that means less revenue which has to be made up by increasing "fees" or local and county sales taxes because we are doing nothing to decrease the size of government. If Republican lawmakers and other elected officials would actually pair spending cuts with tax cuts, we would get somewhere. Instead, we bump along from one financial crisis to the next, and on a national level keep digging a deeper pit of debt.
Symbolic. I'm disappointed.
Drop to 3%, increase sales tax, and decrease spending significantly.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 05, 2013, 10:48:32 AM
Symbolic. I'm disappointed.
Drop to 3%, increase sales tax, and decrease spending significantly.
So you want to flip income taxes to a regressive tax that taxes the poor disproportionally? That makes good sense.
And decrease state spending on what? Roads? Prisons? Education is down $200 million from 2008 spending levels with thousands of additional students. Her proposal is to restore $13 million of that money. Is that where you want to cut? We could cut DHS, except for the lawsuits over our lack of spending there. How about we cut mental health services, how does that idea sound?
This is mindless posturing to further her political career. She also turned down Medicare funding, even though it was a 9-1 federal match program that probably would be tax revenue neutral with the additional economic activity from that additional healthcare spending. That's aside from the good of covering hundreds of thousands of the working poor that currently have no insurance. No surprise though, with her other proposals it's obvious how much she cares for the poor.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 05, 2013, 10:29:06 AM
She is talking about cutting the income tax rate from 5.25% to 5%. That is hardly enough to attract vast amounts of new employers to relocate here.
Of course that means less revenue which has to be made up by increasing "fees" or local and county sales taxes because we are doing nothing to decrease the size of government. If Republican lawmakers and other elected officials would actually pair spending cuts with tax cuts, we would get somewhere. Instead, we bump along from one financial crisis to the next, and on a national level keep digging a deeper pit of debt.
Any cut in taxes helps. Fallin has to fight against some members of the state house who don't want to cut taxes. Oklahomas state income taxes are a bit on the high side compaired to other states even after the new tax cut, I'd also like to see the Oklahoma sales taxes done away with on all food items - like they say "Food Taxes are hard to swallow" Most states don't tax food. Oklahoma is doing good and on course, even with Obama destroying the national economy.
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 05, 2013, 01:43:39 PM
Any cut in taxes helps. Fallin has to fight against some members of the state house who don't want to cut taxes. Oklahomas state income taxes are a bit on the high side compaired to other states even after the new tax cut, I'd also like to see the Oklahoma sales taxes done away with on all food items - like they say "Food Taxes are hard to swallow" Most states don't tax food. Oklahoma is doing good and on course, even with Obama destroying the national economy.
Making fun of this is like poking a legless pig in the eyes. It's pointless and mean.
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 05, 2013, 01:43:39 PM
Any cut in taxes helps. Fallin has to fight against some members of the state house who don't want to cut taxes. Oklahomas state income taxes are a bit on the high side compaired to other states even after the new tax cut, I'd also like to see the Oklahoma sales taxes done away with on all food items - like they say "Food Taxes are hard to swallow" Most states don't tax food. Oklahoma is doing good and on course, even with Obama Failin' destroying the national state economy.
FIFY
Quote from: swake on February 05, 2013, 01:22:37 PM
So you want to flip income taxes to a regressive tax that taxes the poor disproportionally? That makes good sense.
And decrease state spending on what? Roads? Prisons? Education is down $200 million from 2008 spending levels with thousands of additional students. Her proposal is to restore $13 million of that money. Is that where you want to cut? We could cut DHS, except for the lawsuits over our lack of spending there. How about we cut mental health services, how does that idea sound?
This is mindless posturing to further her political career. She also turned down Medicare funding, even though it was a 9-1 federal match program that probably would be tax revenue neutral with the additional economic activity from that additional healthcare spending. That's aside from the good of covering hundreds of thousands of the working poor that currently have no insurance. No surprise though, with her other proposals it's obvious how much she cares for the poor.
First of all, taxation on usage does not produce a disproportionate burden on the poor. On the contrary. Because it is far more difficult to escape taxation on usage than it is on income through deduction, and loophole, you end up taxing the wealthy at a greater rate and the poor at a lesser rate. It also creates additional revenue streams from commerce, tourism, and the millions of people that just simply pass through our state on their way somewhere else!
As for cuts, there are many areas that are attractive for cuts. For instance, we will spend over a billion dollars on prisons by 2017. That represents about an 70% freekin increase since 2012. Why do we need to be a prison state?
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8078/8447756949_1d36cbd8be.jpg)
Because we are a prison state, our court system is backed up with legal cases coming directly out of our prisons. When you have noting better to do but sit in a cell and think about the bag of weed that put you there, litigating on everything from crusts on your sandwiches to your right to smoke pot in prison becomes attractive. We'll spend another half a billion on that.
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=7868364
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8088/8447762379_607531f4c4.jpg)
. . .and since you mention it, lets talk about education. Is increased spending the answer? It seems we are spending quite a bit more, and have done so for quite a while. Is it producing the improvement and return on investment we hope for? Perhaps we should take a more innovative approach and figure out why minimally financed carter and small private schools can produce higher test scores with similar per-student spending? Perhaps we need to be selective and reward our teachers more, and administrators less?
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8085/8448875662_f51a6a4ac4.jpg)
BUT. . .Cuts do not equal revenue as the Republicans and many Democrats want you to think (because government cannot help but spend more). Growth is the only thing that actually creates lasting revenue, so our primary focus should be on growth, and that happens when our state is attractive for investment. Our secondary concern should be on containing expenses. For the life of me I will never understand how over the last decade the concept of operating a balanced budget became blasphemy.
We can't tax & spend our way to a strong economy. Tax cuts make a strong economy by causing growth. We are not under taxed, the government is spending too much- both state & federal gov's. That's why Mary Fallin wants to cut taxes. Oklahoma needs to cut taxes and cut spending. IMO Fallin is not going far enough with tax cuts. If you like paying high taxes move to California or New York you'll love it..
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 06, 2013, 12:59:33 PM
We can't tax & spend our way to a strong economy. Tax cuts make a strong economy by causing growth. We are not under taxed, the government is spending too much- both state & federal gov's. That's why Mary Fallin wants to cut taxes. Oklahoma needs to cut taxes and cut spending. IMO Fallin is not going far enough with tax cuts. If you like paying high taxes move to California or New York you'll love it..
I assume you don't like education.
Quote from: Townsend on February 06, 2013, 01:19:23 PM
I assume you don't like education.
You owe me a soda for that one.
Quote from: Gaspar on February 05, 2013, 03:00:39 PM
Why do we need to be a prison state?
Good question. Perhaps we should stop locking people up for petty crimes and rationalize sentencing.
Also, you might want to redo those charts with per capita spending. More people means more students means more school spending even with no change in per-pupil outlays. Same with the courts and prisons. Part of the problem is that we've been operating the entire state on a shoestring budget for years and increased spending is necessary just to make up for all the deferred maintenance, much less any actual increase in need.
Just FYI, we currently spend less than one percent of our total income on state government. Last year it was 0.87%. Anyone who is complaining about excessive state government spending (in total, there is clearly waste in some areas) is full of smile.
Actually I would not mind having Mary Fallin in the whitehouse, (or some strong conserative person just like her). Fallin could turn our national economy around and get things going just like she did in Oklahoma. That clown we have in the whitehouse now is in way over his head- he has not a clue. Gasoline is up another 10 cents in Tulsa thanks to Obama's no drilling/no KeyStone Pipeline Policy. Obama's Tax & spend is sending our nation the way of Greece. It's pretty grim.. :(
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 08, 2013, 10:30:57 AM
Actually I would not mind having Mary Fallin in the whitehouse, (or some strong conserative person just like her). Fallin could turn our national economy around and get things going just like she did in Oklahoma. That clown we have in the whitehouse now is in way over his head- he has not a clue. Gasoline is up another 10 cents in Tulsa thanks to Obama's no drilling/no KeyStone Pipeline Policy. Obama's Tax & spend is sending our nation the way of Greece. It's pretty grim.. :(
It's got to kill others on your side of the political spectrum that you are an active commenter.
He's getting his money's worth out of his library card today.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 08, 2013, 10:51:17 AM
He's getting his money's worth out of his library card today.
Bwahahaha!
Quote from: Hoss on February 08, 2013, 10:52:00 AM
Bwahahaha!
If you're trying to make me jealous, it's not working.
Quote from: Townsend on February 08, 2013, 10:53:20 AM
If you're trying to make me jealous, it's not working.
Nice!
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 08, 2013, 10:30:57 AM
Gasoline is up another 10 cents in Tulsa thanks to Obama's no drilling/no KeyStone Pipeline Policy.
Riddle me this: If Obama's policies are to blame for high gas prices, why was gas $2.89 about a month ago? Did something change between then and now?
Quote from: nathanm on February 08, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
Riddle me this: If Obama's policies are to blame for high gas prices, why was gas $2.89 about a month ago? Did something change between then and now?
Obama created this blizzard on the east cost which is shutting down refineries. Well that and not completing the Keystone XL even though that's all asphalt grade oil destined for China.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 08, 2013, 03:05:34 PM
Obama created this blizzard on the east cost which is shutting down refineries. Well that and not completing the Keystone XL even though that's all asphalt grade oil destined for China.
Blame Canada.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 08, 2013, 03:05:34 PM
Well that and not completing the Keystone XL even though that's all asphalt grade oil destined for China.
I still don't understand the amazing spin on this. How is this supposed to lower our gas prices and provide all these jobs for Oklahomans?
Quote from: Townsend on February 08, 2013, 03:13:08 PM
I still don't understand the amazing spin on this. How is this supposed to lower our gas prices and provide all these jobs for Oklahomans?
Because Newt Gingrich said it would help him get us to $2.50 a gallon gas?
Quote from: Hoss on February 08, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
Blame Canada.
(http://movieimages.tripod.com/southpark/southpark03.jpg)
Quote from: Conan71 on February 08, 2013, 03:05:34 PM
Obama created this blizzard on the east cost which is shutting down refineries. Well that and not completing the Keystone XL even though that's all asphalt grade oil destined for China.
You can act silly but we all know deep down you're dead serious. :P
All,
He poses the question, and then shows he has no thoughts. This is just more of his constant regurgitation of the stuff he hears on Fox. Will never have a thought, so really isn't worth even replying or commenting on anything he says.
Quote from: nathanm on February 08, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
Riddle me this: If Obama's policies are to blame for high gas prices, why was gas $2.89 about a month ago? Did something change between then and now?
First off that $2.89 a gallon last month was not cheap for January, -January is normally the time of year our gas prices are the lowest point of the year, they have since started to climb as we go into Spring. Every year since Obama took office our gas prices were higher than the year before so I suspect our fuel prices for 2013 will be higher than the gas prices of 2012... When Bush left office in 2008 gasoline was at $1.70 a gallon, When Obama came to power he took that $1.70 gasoline that Bush gave him and drove it up to $3.00+ a gallon. Since Obama came to power 4 years ago the national average of gasoline has never fell below $3.00 a gallon. Obama shut down drilling in the gulf and drilling on federal lands... BTW, California already had $6.00 a gallon gasoline in October, 2012, Chicago and some other major cities alreay had gasoline over $5.00 a gallon. 25 years ago our cars got 12-14 miles per gallon and gasoline was about 80 cents a gallon, today cars get 30 miles per gallon and gasoline costs 3-4 times as much. (so much for conserving gasoline) I would not be surprised if by the end of Obama's term in 2016 the national average for gasoline will be around $6.00-$7.00 a gallon and if war breaks out in the middle east gas prices will be really in orbit..
I believe that if Romney had won the election in 2012, gas prices will be falling and tumbling. Enjoy your gas prices Obama voters.
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 11, 2013, 01:35:46 PM
I believe that if Romney had won the election in 2012, gas prices will be falling and tumbling.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--iT9Mu3j7CI/T9Y5j5hYayI/AAAAAAAABCQ/u2dUxJnMO5Q/s1600/funny-cat-pictures-lolcats-believe.jpg)
So dropping gas prices in 2008 had nothing to do with our economy being on the verge of collapse?
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbjvhuAgOW1riu3tjo1_500.jpg)
couldn't resist...
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 11, 2013, 01:31:29 PM
First off that $2.89 a gallon last month was not cheap for January, -January is normally the time of year our gas prices are the lowest point of the year, they have since started to climb as we go into Spring.
As usual, you are mostly wrong. January is indeed usually the time of year with lowest gas prices here. However, this time last year, the average price in Tulsa was almost precisely the same at it is now. It was also relatively cheaper on new year's than in February, but last year's low was actually higher than this year by about 10 cents. The peak average price (ever, not adjusted for inflation) in Tulsa was in summer 2008 when it peaked around $3.90 a gallon. You didn't live here then, but that was before Obama, in case you're getting your years confused.
Also, you might be interested to know that the 2011 peak price was higher than the 2012 peak price, as was the 2011 lowest price relative to this winter. Try harder?
Also, I'm a bit curious about something? Under a Republican president, Tulsa's average gas price more than tripled. The average price was less than a buck a gallon when Bush was elected. Just prior to the 2008 election, gas peaked at the $3.90 figure I mentioned earlier. Why do you still insist that Republicans give us cheap gas?
Under George Bush gas prices jumped from $1.60 a gallon when he took office to $4.40 a gallon in July of 2008, an increase of 275%.
If you believe Obama has influenced gas prices, then you mush accept that he has done a better job than Bush did. I personally don't believe a President has much sway in an internationally traded commodity, but you obviously do.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on February 11, 2013, 02:47:17 PM
Under George Bush gas prices jumped from $1.60 a gallon when he took office to $4.40 a gallon in July of 2008, an increase of 275%.
If you believe Obama has influenced gas prices, then you mush accept that he has done a better job than Bush did. I personally don't believe a President has much sway in an internationally traded commodity, but you obviously do.
Yep and it lasted for 2 weeks before prices tumbled. The democrats in congress in 2007 & 2008 also blocked Bush from opening up more domestic drilling, latter Bush got those lands opened up for drilling and oil prices fell as spectulators got out of the oil market, Obama shut down domestic drilling during his first day in office in 2009, speculators noticed and bid up the oil price, Gasoline's national average never fell below $3.00 a gallon since 2009.. Today the national average for gasoline is $3.62 a gallon. The oil speculators bid on oil futures and they know with Obama in power our domestic oil will be tight, drilling restricted, so prices go up into orbit.
Jimmy Carter also had our domestic gas supply in a mess, remember those odd/even ration days? Remember dry gas stations and long lines of cars waiting to buy gas at gas stations that still had gas? Remember service stations with signs out front that read "Sorry, no gas today"? Thanks to Ronald Reagan, he ended that mess in 1980 when he took power.
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 12, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
Yep and it lasted for 2 weeks before prices tumbled. The democrats in congress in 2007 & 2008 also blocked Bush from opening up more domestic drilling, latter Bush got those lands opened up for drilling and oil prices fell as spectulators got out of the oil market, Obama shut down domestic drilling during his first day in office in 2009, speculators noticed and bid up the oil price, Gasoline's national average never fell below $3.00 a gallon since 2009.. Today the national average for gasoline is $3.62 a gallon. The oil speculators bid on oil futures and they know with Obama in power our domestic oil will be tight, drilling restricted, so prices go up into orbit.
(http://i.bnet.com/blogs/bush-obama-oil-production-graph-1.jpg)
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/obama-vs-bush-the-oil-chart-that-will-surprise-you/11859 (http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/obama-vs-bush-the-oil-chart-that-will-surprise-you/11859)
QuoteConventional wisdom and the fossil fuels industry tells us that under the Obama Administration domestic oil production has fallen — which has in turn, hurt the economy and prevented job growth. A recent examination of annual domestic oil production tells a different story.
Robert Rapier, who writes the R-Squared Energy blog, recently finished a chapter on politics for his new book, which includes graphics to show movements in oil prices, production, imports and consumption throughout the last eight presidential administrations. Today, he published one of those graphics, which at the very least is thought-provoking, and is, as he describes it, "one of the more counter-intuitive graphics that you will ever come across."
In short, the graphic above shows that annual domestic oil production fell every year during the eight years of the Bush Administration. Meanwhile, production rose in the first three years of the Obama Administration. Rapier doesn't offer up his views (we'll have to wait for the book).
What do you think? Is Obama benefiting from Bush-era policies that took time to take effect? Or can Obama take credit?
My take: Advances in oil recovery technology and the development of shale oil plays, plus high crude prices were responsible for the rise.
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 12, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
The oil speculators bid on oil futures and they know with Obama in power our domestic oil will be tight, drilling restricted, so prices go up into orbit.
Domestic drilling doesn't lower gas prices...
http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/25/news/economy/oil_drilling_gas_prices/index.htm
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 12, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
Yep and it lasted for 2 weeks before prices tumbled.
Try six months. Thanks for playing.
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 12, 2013, 01:05:19 PM
Jimmy Carter also had our domestic gas supply in a mess, remember those odd/even ration days? Remember dry gas stations and long lines of cars waiting to buy gas at gas stations that still had gas? Remember service stations with signs out front that read "Sorry, no gas today"? Thanks to Ronald Reagan, he ended that mess in 1980 when he took power.
Why don't they pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything? If it works as well as prohibition did, in five years Americans would be the smartest race of people on Earth.
And Cabbageman has a head start on that....
Drilling is DOWN today on federal lands, it's only up on private land, but Obama may be attacking private land drilling thru the EPA. Bush had much more federal land drilling. We are importing more oil than ever before.
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 13, 2013, 01:23:15 PM
Drilling is DOWN today on federal lands, it's only up on private land, but Obama may be attacking private land drilling thru the EPA. Bush had much more federal land drilling. We are importing more oil than ever before.
Where are you getting your information?
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 13, 2013, 01:23:15 PM
Drilling is DOWN today on federal lands, it's only up on private land, but Obama may be attacking private land drilling thru the EPA. Bush had much more federal land drilling. We are importing more oil than ever before.
I don't believe you can actually keep from laughing at yourself when you say crap like this...
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2012/12/19/us-sets-record-for-domestic-oil.html
Quote from: Townsend on February 13, 2013, 01:24:27 PM
Where are you getting your information?
You know he has this condition..it's called cranial-rectal inversion.
Quote from: Hoss on February 13, 2013, 02:03:46 PM
You know he has this condition..it's called cranial-rectal inversion.
He's freakin' broken. (or a good act)
Either way, I consider him damaging to the forum...such as it is.
Quote from: sauerkraut on February 13, 2013, 01:23:15 PM
Drilling is DOWN today on federal lands, it's only up on private land, ...
There is more drilling period. Why parse that it is on private or public land?
Quote from: RecycleMichael on February 13, 2013, 03:53:03 PM
There is more drilling period. Why parse that it is on private or public land?
In order to continue the "discussion" on who is protecting the environment on Federal lands vs who was in charge of trashing the earth.