http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130203_11_A1_CUTLIN277549
QuoteOne policy sets goals for northeastern Oklahoma's Troop L of about four tickets for every 10 traffic stops and 30 arrests per year for alcohol offenses.
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Oklahoma City attorney John Hunsucker, who defends people cited for driving under the influence and other criminal offenses, said he has always been told by troopers such formulas did not exist in the highway patrol.
"It's interesting that they have this quota," he said.
Hunsucker said he is concerned such policies encourage troopers to "look for reasons" to stop motorists to achieve promotions and pay raises.
"When their paycheck depends on and their raises depend on the number of stops they do, then at that point are they really enforcing the law or are they seeing stuff? You see some exaggeration."
"You are going to see more situations where you are going to be pulled over for doing nothing more than driving at 2 o'clock in the morning," Hunsucker said.
When asked whether a higher goal in some troops would encourage troopers to cite drivers who barely exceed the speed limit, Brown said a trooper in that case could emphasize improving numbers on other measures.
I got pulled over by a friend who was a police office and made a joke about him filling his quota. He replied, "two more and my wife gets a toaster."
Quote from: RecycleMichael on February 04, 2013, 07:53:09 PM
I got pulled over by a friend who was a police office and made a joke about him filling his quota. He replied, "two more and my wife gets a toaster."
At least its encouraging that quotas are not universally accepted by police officers.
It isn't hard these days to find mayoral candidates critical of police quotas, stop-and-frisks and the level of outside oversight of the New York Police Department. But something less common occurred last night, as six former police officers and one active one candidly discussed their views of the problems that data-driven policies cause for the department and the public.
"Quotas exist," said John Eterno, a former NYPD captain. "Anyone who tells you any different is a liar. They occur and right now they are stringent about it, particularly with the young cops."
He was part of a panel that spoke to 150 people at Manhattan's LGBT Community Center as part of a forum on department policy entitled "From Behind the Blue Wall of Silence." It was organized by the Police Reform Organizing Project.
The panelists argued that the ability of a police officer to use discretion in making arrests and issuing tickets should trump numerical requirements, which they said often produced favorable-looking statistics that don't reflect reality. They said the numbers-driven policies encouraged police to do more stop-and-frisks, deflate crime reports and issue summonses or make arrests for innocuous crimes. The logic is keep the numbers for measured crimes low, but not so low as to make them attainably hard to beat the following year.
That cycle, they said, harms the trust between officers and the communities they police.http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/05/5837828/quotas-exist-former-nypd-officers-discuss-data-driven-department?page=all
Other than quotas, what is an appropriate way to gauge an officer or trooper's job performance?
Do we want to pay them to drive around all day, and ignore speeders, texters, and drunks in favor of helping people change flats or chase down their dog when it goes AWOL at a rest stop?
The point of having troopers is to improve public safety, not to secure someone's right to drive home drunk at 2am or for someone to run 100 MPH in the left lane from Tulsa to OKC.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 05, 2013, 11:26:57 AM
Other than quotas, what is an appropriate way to gauge an officer or trooper's job performance?
Do we want to pay them to drive around all day, and ignore speeders, texters, and drunks in favor of helping people change flats or chase down their dog when it goes AWOL at a rest stop?
The point of having troopers is to improve public safety, not to secure someone's right to drive home drunk at 2am or for someone to run 100 MPH in the left lane from Tulsa to OKC.
Since when did quotas become necessary to make those types of arrests?
...and I'll bet a life or two has been saved by helping a motorist with a flat tire on a busy interstate. Seems like that should count on an activity report.
Quote from: patric on February 05, 2013, 12:05:21 PM
...and I'll bet a life or two has been saved by helping a motorist with a flat tire on a busy interstate. Seems like that should count on an activity report.
Saw an OHP cruiser watching for speeders on the Creek and a family a few hundred feet down the road changing a tire.
That bothered me. I really thought the OHP officer could've blocked the family's car while they were on the side of the road.
Did anyone seriously believe OHP, like every police force in the country, did not have quotas for tickets, etc.?
Quote from: Conan71 on February 05, 2013, 11:26:57 AM
Other than quotas, what is an appropriate way to gauge an officer or trooper's job performance?
Good question! It doesn't make quotas any more appropriate, though. Quotas ignore the fact that the frequency of the underlying behaviors they're expected to write tickets/make arrests for varies widely from place to place and time to time.
Quote from: nathanm on February 06, 2013, 04:11:29 PM
Quotas ignore the fact that the frequency of the underlying behaviors they're expected to write tickets/make arrests for varies widely from place to place and time to time.
We have forgotten the importance of rewarding honesty and good work, and it's a top-down leadership flaw.
A New York City police officer named Adil Polanco told a local ABC News reporter that "our primary job is not to help anybody, our primary job is not to assist anybody, our primary job is to get those numbers and come back with them." He continued: "At the end of the night you have to come back with something. You have to write somebody, you have to arrest somebody, even if the crime is not committed, the number's there. So our choice is to come up with the number." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/why-police-officers-lie-under-oath.html?_r=0
Quote from: Conan71 on February 05, 2013, 11:26:57 AM
The point of having troopers is to improve public safety, not to secure someone's right to drive home drunk at 2am or for someone to run 100 MPH in the left lane from Tulsa to OKC.
You have been up and down that turnpike more than enough to know there is always a gross-overspeeder coming along in just a couple minutes. At that 100 mph speed. That's not the complaint. The complaint is about the guys who sit and wait looking for the 'next' driver, regardless of speed or driving habits. (Broken Arrow has had real issues with that in the past....)
2am - well everyone knows, it's only the 'creatures of the night' who are out at that time, so every single one of them should be stopped and checked out. Probably need to be frisked and shaken down, too.... ooohhh....or maybe a full body cavity search!!
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on February 07, 2013, 06:51:09 AM
2am - well everyone knows, it's only the 'creatures of the night' who are out at that time, so every single one of them should be stopped and checked out. Probably need to be frisked and shaken down, too.... ooohhh....or maybe a full body cavity search!!
No different that subjecting someone walking their neighborhood to a "pedestrian check" because everyone knows law-abiding people travel exclusively by automobile.
Quote from: patric on February 07, 2013, 03:17:39 PM
No different that subjecting someone walking their neighborhood to a "pedestrian check" because everyone knows law-abiding people travel exclusively by automobile.
How do you know a pedestrian check hasn't kept some creep from kicking your door in at 3am?
Quote from: Conan71 on February 07, 2013, 03:23:13 PM
How do you know a pedestrian check hasn't kept some creep from kicking your door in at 3am?
Survey says: Not supported by crime data.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/13/nypd-stop-and-frisks-15-shocking-facts_n_1513362.html
Quote
Here are 15 shocking facts about stop and frisks.
1. "In Brownsville, Brooklyn In 2009, 93 Out Of Every 100 Residents Were Stopped By The NYPD"
2. The NYPD Can Stop And Frisk You In Your Building
3. A Hugely Disproportional Number Of Blacks And Latinos Are Stopped And Frisked By The NYPD
4. The NYPD Is Stop-And-Frisk Happy
5. More Young Black Men Were Stopped By The NYPD In 2011 Than There Are Young Black Men in New York City
6. The NYPD Can Was Allowed To Stop And Frisk You In A Livery Cab
7. The NYPD Uses Force Against Black And Latinos More Than Whites
8. With Huge Increase In Stop And Frisks, Only Minor Increase In Guns Found
9. Small Percentage Actually Involved In Violent Crime
10. NYPD Will Stop You For 'Inappropriate Attire Off Season'
11. Many Stops Are Unconstitutional
12. The Vast Majority Of Those Stopped Are Innocent
13. Whites Are Almost Twice As Likely To Be Found With A Weapon
14. The NYPD Faces Numerous Stop And Frisk Lawsuits
15. Stop And Frisks Don't Always Drive Down Murder Statistics
Quote from: Vashta Nerada on February 07, 2013, 08:29:43 PM
Survey says: Not supported by crime data.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/13/nypd-stop-and-frisks-15-shocking-facts_n_1513362.html
I'm sorry, what does data on the NYPD have to do with the OHP or even the Tulsa Police Department?
Secondly, an officer scaring off a potential intruder by stopping to ask what they are doing peering in your window at 3am is a lot different than a stop and frisk.
You and Patric must be smoking out of the same bag of paranoia.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 07, 2013, 09:20:13 PM
An officer scaring off a potential intruder by stopping to ask what they are doing peering in your window at 3am is a lot different than a stop and frisk.
Arresting someone "peering into your window at 3am" is not the same as an unwarranted, causeless "Pedestrian Check"
A good example of why "Performance Goals" are dangerous:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/22/lisa-steed-utah-state-trooper-fake-dui-arrests_n_2740623.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/22/utah-highway-patrol-trooper-accused-false-dui-arre/
QuoteSALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Most police departments insist that quotas are urban legends. But a growing number of states are beginning to outlaw the practice of requiring police officers to issue a certain number of traffic tickets to meet job performance goals.
Rep. Neil Hansen, D-Ogden, wants Utah to join the list. "It really becomes a cash cow for the municipality to write tickets," he said.
Hansen said police departments are turning into tax collectors instead of allowing officers to use their discretion. He said this puts the public at risk because police patrol areas that generate more revenue instead of the most dangerous and that police spend time writing tickets to meet goals instead of doing more important work.
"What it really boils down to is, if I'm an officer and a sergeant told me I need to write eight tickets a day, I also have calls of domestic disputes and shoplifting. It's getting to be about an hour before my time is off, and I'm just going to go write a ticket for the first person I see," he said.
Hansen tried to outlaw ticket quotas last year. His bill passed in the House, but failed to get enough support in a Senate committee. It failed on a 2-2 vote while three other lawmakers were absent.
His primary opposition is the police chief of his own town -- who is also a member of the Senate.
Sen. Jon Greiner, R-Ogden, says Hansen doesn't have any proof of a quota system in Utah. He said Hansen is "maligning" his department, and Hansen's bill could keep police officers from issuing any tickets.
He said Hansen and other supporters of the bill need to decide if they want traffic laws enforced. "They can't have it both ways, and say we want people to be safe but don't enforce, don't write tickets. Which is it this week?" he said. Hansen contends Ogden's police department is notorious for using a quota system. Greiner disagrees.
Both, however, agree that the department uses the number of citations issued by an officer as part of an annual job review. The number of citations issued is one of more than a dozen criteria the department uses to evaluate employees.
Greiner said officers helped set the goals and believe they are reasonable. To get the highest rating in that category, Greiner said officers need to issue five citations a week. But, he said, with other criteria used to evaluate employees, officers could still get a raise even if they never issued a single ticket.
Nine states, including Montana, Texas and Florida, have statutes prohibiting law enforcement from setting ticket quotas. Hansen said he believes he has the support this year to make it illegal in Utah too. "I'm pretty sure it's going to pass this year. I've had more legislators come to me and say, 'If you run your bill, I'm on board this time.' They're seeing it in their communities now, and they're starting to see it's a bigger and widespread problem," he said.
Orem Police Chief Michael Larsen said he's not opposed to the idea of banning quotas, but Hansen's bill goes too far.
Hansen named Orem as a Utah city with a quota problem, although Larsen said the department has never had a quota system in the 30 years he's worked there.
"On every stop they make, it's their discretion whether they write a citation or not or to give a warning," he said. "We have evaluation criteria and ... one of those criteria is productivity. But that does not necessarily include traffic enforcement. It's a wide scope of 'What is this employee doing on a day-to-day basis?"'
Larsen said most traffic enforcement is driven by calls from residents complaining about speeding. He said if Hansen's bill passes, an officer could refuse to write any tickets. "It prevents me from managing my department and responding to citizen concerns," he said.